Ali,

We have a mutual friend and I have read you off and on....can't say that i know your sitch well, however, I am happy that you (you and BF) are getting another chance. i will not offer congratulations as I think it is premature but rather the patience and courage to work hard at continuing your journey. Oh screw it ...CONGRATS!

Thanks John and bless you. Yes, I am still feeling nervous and not "out of the woods yet", but it pays to have a positive mindset hey and I remain optimistic as ever! And.. I said end of May hey. Wow, didnt I ever.

So alot has happened. Saturday, he wanted me to go join him and our friends at 1pm, but I didnt go until 7pm. He texted twice and called me 3 times to see where I was!! I knew then something had shifted. When I got there, the guarded, reticent, cautious ex was gone and the old him was back. It was extrodinary and it took several hours before it sunk in that it wasnt just me that was a done deal, he was too!

He held my hand all night, kissed me often, seemed so happy and relaxed. He was sweet and attentive to me and I began to relax completely. Its wierd, we were like a pair of teenagers all weekend, kissing alot! It felt like the 2nd honeymoon thing, except me and him werent even like that the first time around, because we had been friends for 3 years before we got together. So that made it even more special really.

Sunday morning in bed was lovely too, very poignant.. it was a beautiful day and we walked the coast path with friends.. him holding my hand alot..I really missed that, I used to love holding his hand walking. Mainly though, we laughed and laughed.. MF was with us, who I have known for 17 years and I spent much of the walk talking to him, it felt natural to keep myself apart a little from bf. I guess I have learnt to survive alone and be self sufficient these past 18 months.

I came home for a while, but he asked me to return at night. I keep making him chase me, be explicit that he wants me there..Sunday night was even more fun, Cher and G joined our gang and we all went out to dinner and then to a lovely bar in a village, where a full disco was in swing! Again he was very attentive.

Walking home, we stopped to look at the stars (amazing, no light pollution here) and he ended up saying.. We'll talk, we will talk.. I said a little nervously, yes we must, a little at least and he said, no, we will talk alot.. and then we ended up joking about needing to talk in detail about a great many things and agendas and minutes (in jokes from a job we both did 12 years ago) and were bent over double with laughter!

Again this morning he was very sweet, caring, rubbed my back, made us all breakfast, complimented me on how lovely it was for me to be there, how he had had such a good weekend, that I was very sexy (!) that it had been so much fun.. lots of things. Things I guess he has held in for many months until we got here and he is now 'allowed' to say them. He seems to have turned a corner alright !

Congrats Princess!!!
WOW!!! You did said end of May.

I know you know all the "buts" and difficulties and etc etc. You 've been around too long, you are not naive or silly (well, maybe a little bit!!). So, I will keep that for later and all I will say now is, I am very happy you got here. And I hope I get to speak that speech soon... $;\)$
M

PS. We have had nothing of all that you had in a weekend. It seems your connection was never lost and the fact that he came to you, without being officially married, having kids (and you owing money, LOL!!) etc etc speaks volumes!!!!!

Sorry for the long post.. so then to the tricky stuff. I thought of you all when this happened. I dont know if he DID have an MLC or a crisis, or breakdown, or just depression, but he did give me a sort of explanation (again, without me asking, so his willingness to talk already, even if only a little, bodes well):

So in bed last night, he said it was lovely that I was there, he really wanted me to be there and he was so glad that I was... then he said "I love you" and hugged me and I nearly cried. I said "REALLY?" and he said yes and I think I said, because you said that you didnt...

Then he gave a little speech (falling over his words) that he had thought he didnt, he thought he knew what he wanted and knew what he was doing, but he didnt know what he was doing, or what he wanted, or it wasnt what he wanted afterall, but he thought it was, and he thought he didnt (love me he meant)... and thats why he did all of this.. that he wouldnt have done it otherwise, if he hadnt thought he did at the time, but he didnt know what he was doing and was wrong and his decision had been rubbish and now he did know what he was doing and what he wanted and he was REALLY glad that I was there, so glad...I said I was glad and that I loved him too.

So romantic! *sigh* (in a sort of little girl thinking of princes and princesses way)

I'm so happy and pleased for you, Al.

L. xx

Hey Lisa, so nice to see you and thankyou, that means alot to me. I guess it was romantic in places, but there were also alot of people with us all weekend, so it was mainly just alot of fun and I cant remember the last time I laughed so much. But then thats something else that I missed, all our extended friends.

Hey K, you are right, I know this is going to be hard, it already is !! So there was an incident Saturday night that highlights it.. he got talking to two pretty girls outside the pub, one that I wierdly worked with last summer and intuitively felt worried about if he ever met her that they would have a connection (she is 32, an Aquarian and left her bf of 10 years, a guy who looks alot like my bf). So I felt very insecure about it and as he was gabbling to me afterwards about what a nice gurl she was (his housemate had already told him about her as he nearly dated her).. I sprang with tears. I couldnt help it, but he was very reassuring and hugged me and said he was just gabbling and wasnt meaning anything by it nd kissed me alot.

He is just a very friendly guy, but of course it highlights the damage that has been done by him leaving me and of course I feel insecure at present, despite how reassuring he has been. So...yes, a rocky road ahead!!

But.. there was no change in him all weekend after this brief incident and he just called me for a chat and to say goodnight. And he said again what a great weekend he had and how lovely it was for me to be there.

Although he never had an A, he DID date someone else for 6-8 months and did leave me, so of course, we need to build trust back up and I do need reassurance. So far he has been pretty good at giving it voluntarily, but I am mindful that I cant expect too much yet, this is going to take time. Lots of time! He needs reassurance too. I told him how attractive and sexy he was and he got very shy and said, oh I really dont think so.. he seems to have a lack of confidence also.

...talking of romance...the more I relaxed, the more I started giving him some attention back..so this morning, he was very sleepy and couldnt wake up.. so I said I will kiss you awake, so I kissed his face all over until he smiled and then grinned and then REALLY woke up and looked very happy!! When I left today, I left my silk nightie on his pillow, hidden under the covers, with a scrap of paper with some kisses on it.

Hopefully that will make him smile and remember when he gets into bed tonight. I have a feeling I wont see him all week... as I am busy and neither of us want to rush this.

LOL, nightie? Good job on buying those new underwear, perfect timing...

Now small 2x2: I already emailed you, I think you must numb out your insecurities for a while. What on earth were you thinking crying over a girl he talked to in front of you? Is this what you want to come across like? I know he knew you but time has passed and you both have changed some, try to "point out" (not point out but show-cant find the words) the parts of you he will not want to lose again, no crying, clingy, needy bahavior. Can you enjoy this period? He wants to talk, he wants to ML, he wants to spend time with you, he expresses himslef, I dont know what else he could do in these first days for you to feel excited and "content"... Do you?

The wound is there and like it or not, your BF may had Helen on the wings before he left you. Remember what you told me about recovering from your EA? It takes time but it seems you share a love together.

K
Hmmm from you earlier post :he didnt know he did but he thought he did know he didnt and then, did you say you knew all along he had no clue and you knew he would soon know that he did instead on not? LOL!!!

Still more than I ever got, but still sounds a wee bit pathetic (sorry he is your BF now $\:\)$ ).

BTW, tell him if he tries to pull another one of these tricks again, he is dead meat!!!! (how was that? straight from the movies, LOL!!)

Reading your threads I realised something...: do you think it is a coincidence that he showed interest when you FINALLY detached more which happened when the pischean reappeared in your life? (irrelevant if nothing ever happened)

Just wondering...

Hey K! Gosh I am tired. Happy tired, but.. shattered!!

"What on earth were you thinking crying over a girl he talked to in front of you? Is this what you want to come across like?" - no this is why I posted it.. exactly as you say, it was BAD! The reason was.. it was the end of the night and I was drunk unfortunately!!! Sunday I only had 2 halves of lager and he didnt have much, but Saturday night was a bit of a party. So I couldnt help it at the time and was extremely worried about my reaction. No damage was done, but it was a wake up call. I have to work on being secure and confident, as he had to after my EA/PA. Its the s*xual attraction thing..he felt that for Helen I am sure, before he left me.. thats where my insecurities lie at present so I am going to work on that. But yes, wow, he really did alot didnt he, way more than I expected.. we started with a bang and its all been very lovely and exciting. MF said to us that we both seemed so calm and he had never seen us looking so happy.

His explanation was very pathetic wasnt it! I'm looking forward to discussing that one again sometime!

About the Piscean.. maybe yes, but my Mum thinks it was that party I went to till 7am... because he was obviously shocked and worried when I told him about it and immediately said "who were you with till 7am?". So my Mum thinks that it made him realise if he didnt move soon, it might be too late. But yes, I had let go and was enjoying my freedom at that point and I guess, like happened with you.. they notice when you finally do that and detach and accept their decision.

It works every damn time. I wish I could tell this to all newcomers. If a sitch has any hope, it will happen when the LBS finally accepts they are gone. FG repeated that all the time. The same happened to him...

Yes I agree..But it can only happen when we are ready! It also happened around the time we met and I gave him that speech (I guess it was a Dobson thing)..where I said I forgave him and I loved him, but if he wants to be with her and he was happy, then I accept it and will take friendship if thats all he has to offer, but he had to let me know as I couldnt go on anymore. He then said, he had to man up, grow some balls and make a decision and asked for some more time. So perhaps it was that also?

The nightie? Well I'm not talking flanelette, lol, it was real silk and very pretty as well as a bit saucy, as we say in the UK. And yes, he noticed my new underwear sets and actually complimented me on them !!

Ali,

I am glad you are having a good time reuniting with your BF....but most of all I am very glad to hear he is opening up and talking to you.

So many times the WAS wants to come back and sweep what happened under the carpet which isn't healthy. It takes too people communicating to make a success of a R, so however 'pathetic' or garbled his explanations may sound at times, it is great that in his own way he is trying to explain it.

From my experience, you will learn more and more over time and sometimes these things will hurt and make you feel low. But those feelings pass and things just get better and better.

Hopefully you will form an even stronger bond than you had before.

BTW, I would expect tears at times when you least expect it......I know I would suddenly get hit with a jealousy that he had done this or that with OW or shared this or that moment with her. I felt she had stolen some shared experiences from us...so still allow yourself to grieve for the 'lost' time.

Ali,
I'm so glad that you are getting a second chance! All the cautions are valid, but I won't beat you over the head with them (unless it becomes necessary). $;\)$ You have a NEW R with some elements of the old.

On your getting teary...I'm wondering if it might just be in your best interests to avoid alcohol when you are around him, at least for a while. I'm a teetotaler, so I don't really know a lot about this from personal experience, but I know that alcohol loosens self-control, and one thing that is necessary for DBing is self-control. Something to consider, anyway.

Hope you don't abandon those of us still stuck in ruts over in the MLC forum! I have been posting the last few days about something that I'd like to get DB feedback on, and have had NO responses...?!?

Take care and hope your final countdown on your projects is going well!

Peace,
Dawn

I agree with DoH. I was thinking about that last night. Cut back on the booze. I dont care if he drinks and everybody drinks. If he/they think you are boring, well, you know better!! That's something we would do at 15, trying to follow the group's behavior...
K

Good Morning... $\:\)$

Hey Saffie, thanks for your thoughts. I feel ok about her as I know he didnt love her. But yes, there is a lot to mine through yet. She stole Christmas from me and my birthday and our 10 year anniversary!! Because of working with her and staying with her for longer. I did only tear up for a second and by the time he let go after hugging me, I had taken a deep breath and was smiling again and carried on chatting as though it hadnt happened. He's probably forgotton about it. He texted me just now to see how I was, so continues to be pretty keen!! I had no intentions of contacting him today.

I snooped in his bedroom and the only evidence I found of her was.. boxes of condoms!! Which upset me initially, but then I just felt relieved. He is a sensible guy and I knew he wouldnt have wanted to take any risks with her. Still, not nice hey. I am sure he will be willing to talk to me about these things, he already has shown willing, which suprised me, but I am so glad! I still worry what they got up to in bed...

Hey Dawn.. I need to catch up with you soon, I am just v busy at college! And Hi K! Yes.. the drink thing, well, it was me that fancied a few glasses after my hard week! I'm way too old to be led astray in that way. He did say to me he knows he is drinking too much. I wouldnt say he was alchoholic, or alchohol dependent even, its just a very sociable lifestyle he has gotton into. All his MF's go to the pub and drink pints. Ok, so its a nice country pub with open fires, or a lovely bar by the seaside, but its still involving alchohol. Its a very British thing and he isnt likely to change, but I expect it to lessen off as we get back together. He didnt drink as much (and never at home) when we were together before, so I'm not overly worried.

I'm not overly worried about anything in fact, I know we have things to work through, but the positives and happy times I can see unfolding before me far outweigh any negatives. I couldnt be happier right now! Although I am dying to ask him a tonne of questions and I would like to post here in case it helps others. Like.. why would he write such strange emails with all the personal pronouns missing and was he aware he was doing it!?? But I know I cant ask things of him yet.. have to tread carefully for now.

Congratulations on your 2nd Chance Ali! It's nice to see one of the "friends" from the "old days" getting the opportunity to start anew with their walk away!!

Good luck with the last stretch to your degree! I look forward to seeing your finished project(s) in the alternate universe!

Hugs,
W2G

...having said that.. SHE didnt steal it from me, he did in fact. I am curious as to why it took him so long to come back too, seeing as I think he realised quite early on he had made a mistake.

I forgot to post something he said, which was the most significant of all.. yes, I was glad of his little speech and when he said he realised now what he wanted and he had been wrong..he actually also said I always loved you. I always suspected that he loved me all along, so it was nice to hear that. My RL people say, its like he left you physically, but he never really left you in fact. He left in body, but not in spirit.

HEY! Hi W2G!! Lovely to see you here and thankyou so much.. how are things with you?
xxx

((((((((((Ali))))))))))

Caught up on your thread finally...busy weekend.

You sound like you are ready to take on this challenge and I am rooting for you all the way. I couldn't be happier to see one of my friends here finally getting a chance to build a R with their former....Kudos to you sweetie!!!!

Ali,

Congrats on the 2nd Chance! Keep in mind this is a completely new relationship and you'll have to continue to stick to the boundaries you've set up for yourself while you two were apart. Don't forget those, or the time you were away will be meaningless.

Also, you have a big psychological hurdle to climb concerning the ghosts of Helen. She'll be in your thoughts as long as you allow her to be there. I'm quite sure it is an easy thing for me to "tell" you to do and I still struggle at times w/XW's "men" (i.e. the Snake, and the apartment complex guy) when I see her b/c it makes me sad and angry at the same time.

However, I'm able to move past it in mere minutes (sometimes seconds even), so it doesn't weigh me down. That said, I'm also never getting back w/her, so I'm in a bit of a different world than you are.

Regardless, she'll only be as powerful in your new R as you let her. BF has guilt over it, that is plain from your posts. When you are ready to completely forgive him and her, you'll know it.

Remember, forgiveness is for yourself, not for others.

Good going. Keep your head up and eyes wide open! Still make him chase you a bit. It is good for him to put forth the effort this time around. $\:\)$

RTL
PS - Ignore anything you'd like to in my posts. As always, just playing Devil's advocate and trying to get you to think about all possibilities. Never intending to be a downer, my dear. $\:\)$

Thankyou Mish! And Rob! I havent thought about her much at all (until just now).. it really is just the sex side of things that worries me!! What they got up to. And thats a very difficult subject to discuss right now, if ever. As for feeling angry, I must be a freak, because I have none at all! And as for forgiveness, I already told him I forgive him and I do mostly. That doesnt mean I still dont want to understand what happened, want answers and need some reassurance at some point.

Well.. I finally did it.. after the weekend we had I decided it was probably ok to phone him, so I did! He talked to me for around 4 minutes after which I could tell he was distracted and said..do you need to go, or talk to me later?? He said... "Yes, can I call you later? Its just that Lethal Weapon 4 is on tele, well, I've seen it loads of times, but me and J were watching it and I havent seen him since Saturday..."

So.. I finally called his house just for a chat (first time for..um, ever??) and I get ditched for Lethal Weapon 4. I assume he hasnt gone off me and just really wants to watch a rubbish man film with his mate. $;\)$

I had assumed that they are no longer in contact, but guess they could be, or she could want answers from him, or be struggling, or just want to be friends? They were together since last August, but at the moment, I have no way of knowing. Perhaps I should ask him if they are still in contact!!?? Or, um, perhaps not just yet.

You are loosing it already double posting everything...LOL!!!
Did the book ever arrive, btw?
xxx
K

Hey K.. wow, I dont know what happened there! Added something and did it twice !! I am very very tired. No.. the book didnt arrive $\:\($ It must have got stolen?

I just checked my email from today and Cher had told me, apparently bf told G yesterday that we are "back together properly". Wow!!! He hasnt told me that, but then I always seemed to be the last to hear !!!!

Nothing like someone else telling you what is going on in your life!! I've been there but in regards to the divorce. Let's hope just wonderful things happen from here on out! $;\)$

hugs, kat

Hey Kat, thankyou... its nice that people are rooting for me.

I called him last night at 9.30, he made embarressed apologies for not calling me (there was no need) said he didnt play football till nearly 8 then got in late and had only just finished eating. He called me back after 11..but we didnt talk for long, he was tired and yawning loads and said, he hadnt finished eating till 8.30.. then corrected himself and said, later when I got in. It all seemed a bit strange.

A little part of me thought, I wonder if he had a visitor and called me back after they left? I dont think for one minute he is still interested in Helen, or that he would do anything even if they were still in contact (and thats without him telling me he loved me). I dont mistrust him in that way.. but I do still feel mistrustful that he is telling me truths or not. He seems to be letting me back in, but there is some way to go.

It just highlights that he has told a lot of lies since he left and concealed alot of things and I still dont feel sure of my place in his life, with it being such early days and so much still to discuss at some point.

..but K was right.. he didnt come back for M, or kids, or religious vows, he came back purely for me, of for love, I think. My intuition always told me he would. You have to listen to what your intuition is trying to tell you..its your inbuilt protection. If you feel something is not 'right', it probably isnt, if you feel something is likely to be ok, it most likely will be.

I still want to find out more about the time we were apart and how he felt and post here for others.

Morning Al,
I am sending you another book. It's not the "5 people you meet in heaven anymore", it is "kama sutra in 69 pages". I think it seems you need that more (your insecurities)... LOL!!
xxxx
K

How is your college work going?
Dont over analyse everything at the moment. You will have time for that. Focus on your work, enjoy the moments and when you have more free time in your hands, you can think all you want (OMG, I cant believe I said that!!!)

Just checking in for the morning, Princess.

RTL

Glad that you are sounding good. Intuition is a strong thing and even when you try to ignore it, it seems to come back even stronger. Keep having faith and working for what you want. Today is supposed to be some awesome day spiritually...let's see. $\:\)$

kat

Ali,

I'm so happy for you!!! I am at a chamber music festival & will have to catch up on your thread later, but it's beautiful to hear about what is happening between you and BF right now.

love!
T

Hello everyone! Thanks Rob, Kat, T.. K - you're beads have arrived! The book didnt, but yes, the kama sutra would come in handy, haha! Although, he seems to think I do it just fine already, so it really is just my own insecurities and not something in reaction to him. Anyway, he did tell G he got bored of s*x with her, and he never got bored of it with me in 9 years, so I should focus on that hey!!

I have been working soooo hard, I am exhausted but VERY happy with my work.. I spent 3 hours today hammering a large piece of lead into the shape of a book (3'x2'). I didnt even think about him all day I was so busy. He emailed me, but I never checked, then he phoned and got VM and called again and got me. Then just called again after football for a chat for 3/4 hour. His message was very sweet, with a soft voice. His email had "me x" on the end. Last night, he said "Night night, sweet dreams" which was a shock, because of course he never wished me "night night" for the whole time he was gone. So wierd how these little things highlight JUST how controlled he was in communicating with me when he was 'gone' and how he is suddenly expressive and his old self more (not entirely yet) now he is back. So wierd. The mind of a WAS hey.

We were just discussing some jobs we have to do on our houses back home and he said he would do them as "I will be going home then because SIL baby is due" (8th June)..I was taken aback so didnt say anything and he actually said "What? Whats wrong? You've gone quiet?" I said.. oh, just, I wasnt sure who would do the jobs, me, or you, or.. " and he said, "well you can come with me" ..sounding a little embarressed to have had to spell it out. So that would be the first time we go home together, as a couple, which is a massive milestone. We went home a few times since apart, he would drop me at his Mums and then go to his.

So this convo threw me a bit and I couldnt hide it, it was the "I will be..." it makes me nervous. I dont know how well I am doing, navigating these tricky early days with him.

At least he emailed and phoned me 3 times today, I didnt contact him at all!!

Good you checked in before I go to bed. I was thinking about you.
You are doing (suprisingly!!!) fine! LOL!
xxx
M

My beads arrived? Great!! I have customers and no products damn it!!

((((((((((((((((((((((((((ALI))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

YEAH! Sounds like a great day all in all.

Don't I keep reading that men like to see themselves pursuing or something?? You not being readily available by chance or design is perfect. It makes him want to keep trying to get a hold of you. I think you are doing fine. You have college to finish up and then we may need to help reign you in but for now...just perfect. $;\)$

kat

Ali,

Quote:

I didnt even think about him all day I was so busy.

I think this is GREAT! I also think it is what you have to keep doing in this "new" relationship w/BF. He's come back b/c he sees you are ok w/out him (well, at least that is what he was led to believe) and he missed you.

So, now keep hammering metal into tiny book-like shapes, finish college and keep up your other interests and he'll continue to see you as the mysterious, wonderful being you are.

Good for you! Just don't forget to keep doing the things that got his attention! I'm sure you aren't, but I'm here to keep you reminded, just in case!

RTL

Wow! Amazing developments sweetie.

Both with college and with BF!

Luckily you can focus on college for now and when the term is over you will have time to spend building a new R with BF!

So everyone agrees then.. its ok I am busy and cant even have time to think about him, neverlone see him!? I did say to him on the phone, I'm sorry I'm so busy, it would be nice to cook you a nice meal (we had been discussing the cr*p we had been eating lately).. and he said.. yes and likewise... so hopefully we will see each other on a weeknight in coming weeks, not just weekends!

Rob .. ha, the book was over 3 foot by 2 foot I meant. Very heavy! Took alot of hammering!

I've got 2 days to go. I painted the space last night, so its time to start building sculptures in it today.. eek!! Will post a pic on the alt uni.

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

So everyone agrees then.. its ok I am busy and cant even have time to think about him, neverlone see him!?

Ali,
You're joking, right? It's a _great_ thing that circumstances are forcing you to be moderately unavailable! He needs to work to re-engage with you, so don't do it all for him! You are the prize, and he needs to "win" you!

Ali, I know you're very busy right now. I'm not asking you for time you can't spare at the moment; however, I would be pleased to have some company on my thread from anyone who has time...

Hope all is going well with the schoolwork!

Peace,
Dawn

It is great that you are finishing up your college, absolutely wonderful that you are busy with things you enjoy, and you ARE making time to do things with him. It's better to go slow here, so that's actually perfect IMO.

Sounds like everything is coming together! Yay!!!!

Ali,

Dawn said it best:

Quote:

It's a _great_ thing that circumstances are forcing you to be moderately unavailable! He needs to work to re-engage with you, so don't do it all for him! You are the prize, and he needs to "win" you!

Don't lose sight of this and the fact you are in a "NEW" relationship which has a different set of rules and actions.

RTL

Gosh.. thanks guys! Dawn.. I will be free Monday!! So, I DID end up making myself avaible, as he wanted to see me, but then I was too tired to do much tonight anyway.

Rob.. yes, it IS a new R... we just did something I dont think we ever did.. we cuddled on the sofa, chatting, but mainly kissing and snogging like teenagers for an hour!

So I dashed home to get ready and had to cook when he arrived. We had a nice snog at the door.... but again, it was me that started it, like at his house. He was just hellbent on squeezing and hugging me (he keeps doing that, like its a comfort to him, or a relief or something, accompanied by "mmm" noises). So as I cooked, he insisted on unloading and reloading my dishwasher, cleaning out the cat bowls, checking out my dodgy bike brakes, cleaning the sideboards.. when I sat down to eat, he then washed up all the oven dishes and glasses I havent had time to touch..(his LL is Acts of Service!).

He said, "I hope you dont mind me doing this? You know how I like a nice tidy up" (LOL!).. I made sure to say, no and of course thanked him alot. He made me several cups of tea whilst I ate and he chatted to me.

Then, I had to glue the pages for my book.. I was worried I was boring company, but he persuaded me to do it and helped...he weighted the book with his toolbox.. which as he said, was still in the cupboard. He also went through some cupboards looking for some extension cables I didnt even know were there.

The whole evening was like he had never left. EXCEPT, he didnt take his shoes off. And when we were snogging, I was being pretty keen but he pulled back and had to tell me he wouldnt be staying the night. He had said he felt poorly (again!) and added that he "didnt feel very sexy".. which worried me. I must have pulled some kind of face at being rejected physically, because he said "oh no! I've embarressed you now and I really dont want to do that".. and then proceeded to snuggle up to me for more kisses before leaving.

So.. I was just honest and real and probably reacted in all the wrong ways, but as I was then concerned for him being ill, he did a lovely thing that I have missed, which of course he would do at times over the years.. he lent his head on my chest and I wrapped both my arms around him and kissed his head alot. It was all just very loving really. But didnt seem to be much passion there. Should I be worried!???

Sorry for the long post! I'm not sure how this is going so far. Good and bad and just very very wierd. Nothing said so far. I smile alot. He worries about me.. like my work, my back, my house.. I stubbed my toe.. and every little thing I just smile and say "Oh, I'm fine!".. which is 1,080 for me, but I am fine!

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

I just smile and say "Oh, I'm fine!".. which is 1,080 for me, but I am fine!

ROTFLMAO

Except for pulling a face when he said he was leaving, I think the whole thing was very positive! If he's depressed and going off the meds, of COURSE he doesn't feel passionate! DON'T take it personally!

SO many positives! Just focus on that!

(((Al))))

You sound SO good these days!

I just saw this news story and thought you might enjoy it,

http://news.uk.msn.com/odd-news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=147621217

L. xx

Hi Al,
posted to you a Kama Sutra guide today with a note inside. Hope it gets to you this time...

Is your project ready?
xxx
K

Sounds very positive to me! Take it slowly, relax, be yourself, and most of all....be happy!

I had sent you this nice note this morning and of course right then they decide to upgrade the system and poof it is gone!! Figures.

I have read "The 5 people you meet in heaven." It is a good and quick read. I think you are doing well. College is allowing you time to not be available(and adding a bit of mystery too

)
Enjoy yourself and don't worry about every face you make or every comment. I am sure he isn't analyzing it that much.

kat

I had sent you this nice note this morning and of course right then they decide to upgrade the system and poof it is gone!! Figures.

I have read "The 5 people you meet in heaven." It is a good and quick read. I think you are doing well. College is allowing you time to not be available(and adding a bit of mystery too

)
Enjoy yourself and don't worry about every face you make or every comment. I am sure he isn't analyzing it that much.

kat

I think this upgrade has got some bugs in it!

kat

Thanks girls!! Michelle, K, Mish, Lisa, Kat, you've been here all along and its lovely that you are wishing me well. I thikn we are going to be fine. I would sincerely doubt we would split up again anytime over the next few years, beyond that, who knows, I cant 'see' that far ahead, but so far, all is going wonderfully well.

Kat, that was the book K originally sent me, but we thikn it got stolen . Thanks for the reminder.. he seems pretty relaxed and not at all bothered by any of my actions/faces.. yesterday I said a meek sorry for something and again, he took my face in his hands and said "Please, please stop saying sorry. You have absolutely nothing to be sorry for at all. Please dont apologise anymore" and kissed me.

But, its like neither of us have any desire to rake over the past, and to be honest I sort of cant be bothered! It will happen in time, just like Jody said, later on, when we are more settled and its 'safe' to.

Sometimes little thoughts enter my head.. like in bed, we are constantly entwined sleeping and on waking.. and I thikn, so, did you wrap your arms and legs around Helen like this and kiss her face? And I want to ask..then I know I cant (?) and then I think, I doubt it, so whats the point in upsetting him by asking?

His friend put his foot in it last night.. he said, oh I came to this pub before once.. with bf and.. and then looked at me nervously and said, oh, um, it was a work thing. So lots of his friends met Helen. I wonder how he feels about this? I worry how I compare in company a little, but at least I know everyone is thrilled we are back together.. but my main worry is still s*x. I worry how I compare there!

I really am feeling quite insecure about this and he is still a bit reticent. We both seem to have a bit of a problem in this area and it feels like the hardest thing of all to broach with him.

I want to be able to post something useful, some answers, but quite honestly, its just like a new R, all exciting and lots of touching (constant!) and kissing. We werent even like this the first time around, he was so familiar to me when we got together. But now, after such a long break and perhaps the not seeing him much at all for 6 months.. its just like we have rediscovered each other. It really is like a honeymoon period. But, we havent talked about anything, not our old R, our split, why he then got close to me again but ditched me for Helen. Nothing about why he behaved the way he did. Sorry guys!

Ali, please stop bringing Helen into the middle of it. Let's say for argument ask that this was a totally new guy. You knew that he had been with several women before you but he is with you now. do you really stop and bring everyone of those women with you into this R? NO! So don't do it now. You were apart and he dated someone in between your times together. Period. You will talk about why he left etc. later when you are both ready but for now drop her from your thoughts.

You are doing well otherwise.

kat

Ali,

Congratulations on making it to Piecing!!!

My H and I have also started piecing just over a week ago and we haven't discussed things (although we have talked about some things over the past year). As your DB coach suggested, it is probably better to leave it for now and get on more solid ground before bringing it up.

I can relate to the insecurities that surface. Sometimes I think about H and OW and how I compare but I quickly try to dismiss those thoughts.
You are doing great otherwise. I am very happy for you!

Hey girls.. Kat, thats good advice and ironically, exactly how I felt when I first dated him.. because he broke up with his then gf the week before...(he was in love with me secretly, hmm, second time that has happened !!). It never bothered me that he had been sleeping with someone else right up until we got together. So I feel the same way now.. yes, we were apart and it wasnt an A.. but, as Addie says, its human nature to compare and worry a little, but I also lose the thought again a second later, or let it go should I say. I actually feel completely calm and relaxed and happy around him and have no anger or bitterness or need to forgive.. only bits and bobs. Dont know how I managed that!

Addie... Hello!! I read your post and saw H came back and I was SO happy for you too! We have been back together 2 weeks now. Its wierd isnt it, to be in this position, dont you think? I missed him like mad, it was agony..now, I shower him with kisses when he wakes up and he smiles and does it back and its all so lovely and natural, its like the last hideous 2 years went up in a puff of smoke, like a bad dream.

Although having said that, I have learnt so much, I wouldnt change it. I just wish he came back a bit sooner.. May was stretching it! He was on his last threads with me. But, the R we have now is so much healthier already I think, we both seem to have learnt a lot and appreciate each other more for it. I said to him at the bomb... you dont value me and you dont value what we've got. Hopefully, he does now. What I mainly sense from him, is relief. Relief that he got back on track after his detour, that he got me back and came back to love, he just oozes relief and seems much happier and calmer in himself than the past 2 years.

Hey, Ali!

Sounds good. Keep your head up, dear. Take the good w/the bad and remember it is a long process still even though you two are "together" again.

Michelle posted "DON'T take it personally!" and you've got to do whatever you can to keep this in mind. It was hard for you to accept when he was gone that it wasn't about you, so you have to work harder to remember that now that he's back that it isn't about you.

His depression will work w/him in different ways, so remember to detach and keep your feelings separate from his. If he's having a bad day, you don't have to have a bad day too.

RTL

Hey everyone.

Well, wierd day. He wanted me to go over to his again last night, I said no, I was too tired and frankly, I wanted some time to myself! He said he would ring me in the morning, which he did and was here by 12. He got me new printer cartridges, to save me a trip out and installed them.. and altered my box for my installation, rewired some cables. Took him several hours. G and Cher came over but I was busy, so the three of them went out for a few hours. When they came back, he insisted on changing the wheel on my car and took the rubbish out. By the time he left at 6.30...I actually wanted him to leave. Funny huh?

Theres something funny going on and I cant work it out. Perhaps its resentments surfacing? He's just SO fine and normal and said he wanted to help, enjoyed his day helping me, called me just now to say goodnight, said he will call me tommorow, wants to do something tommorow night...

Maybe he is in a rush now to get back to normal!? For me.. I am wondering when the conversations kick in. I think all this attentiveness and helping me (and phoning 2-3 times a day) is pretty overwhelming for me after 18 months alone, but for him, my intuition says it is making him feel better. He wants to help and be supportive, I think he feels tremendous guilt for how badly he treated me now that he realises he loved me all along. He didnt want to stay though. So he wants to change my tyre, but not sleep with me?

I cut my finger badly today. I was fine. He was very worried and fussing over me and insisted on reapplying plasters all day. I'm looking at him thinking, I survived alone for 18 months with much worse than a cut finger to deal with. I had 2 counsellors a week, an emergency phoneline and cried every day for the first 4 months.. where were you then!??? Now you want to cover me in plasters? Its sort of a bit surreal !

When he left.. he even said he would push the hoover around and cook my tea for me before he went (he was eating with a friend). I told him no, its ok, I'll do it...

..I found myself telling him I didnt know when I could see him, I had Tang Soo Do tommorow (I dont have to go) and was meeting a GF Tuesday (dont know if I am yet).. how wierd? Seems it is ME that is needing space and he is the one pushing for more. I am feeling very odd about things. I dont want him to take my bins out, rewire cables, change tyres and cook me tea. Nice and lovely as all of that is, I would rather he ravished me, or took me for dinner, or bought me flowers. Is this normal for a returning WAH???

I guess I feel its all a bit pragmatic/perfunctory/mundane?? and NOT romantic. Wheres the passion??

Rob - He doesnt seem at all depressed anymore! He seems happy, relaxed and calm, wierd hey??

Sounds like he has a lot of nervous energy-- he may act calm, but I'm sure he still worries you might change your mind.

Keep doing what you're doing-- it's working.

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

I guess I feel its all a bit pragmatic/perfunctory/mundane?? and NOT romantic. Wheres the passion??

Maybe NOW you understand me a little bit? And you have gotten more, double than triple, more than that even than I have gotten in 8 months?

Hold your horses. Back to basics. What are his LLs? Is he trying to love you the way he wants to be loved? Maybe tell him what you need in a subtle way? I dont know. I obvioulsy messed up in the is stage but I think you have no reasons to worry about...
xxx
K

Hi Ali,

Just wanted to pop in quickly.

I have to tell you that it can take AGES to get the passion back and life in the bedroom rekindled. I can only speak for myself here, but I remember reading about other sitches with similar problems. Do you remember Pisces? She got her M back, and there was no OW, but her last few posts were about the lack of sex (hadn't been a problem in their M before).

In my case, when H wants it, he really wants it, like multiple times in a night. On other occasions he says he feels pressured. I suspect that there are also residual effects of depression. I know depression can have a huge impact on sex drive, and I think this is especially the case when the partner is someone meaningful rather than a band-aid for depression. In my own sitch, H wanted it all the time when we were S, but my guess is that he had pushed his feelings for me to the back burner. He was cold and distant, except for in bed. Now, he is a lot more affectionate, but sex is still a touchy topic-even though there was no OW. I think beyond the depression, there is probably guilt too. Your BF must still feel wracked with guilt, even if not always, on a subconscious level it likely plays into his actions.

I know some people get the fairy tale fresh start with flowers and passion, but I think that in most cases the fresh start is gradual, and things like passion and romance come later. Your BF is probably doing what he feels comfortable with, which seems to be showing his affection by doing acts of service. It really seems as though he has come such a long way, and you're only just beginning this new step. If it were me, I would try to focus on the positive things that are happening, even if they are not everything that you want at the moment. Others may disagree, but I'd say that DBing is not over. Maybe the way that you approach things is different now, but there is a still a long way to the goal. The goal has just moved from getting a second chance, to having a healthy and fulfilling R. There has been a lot of damage done, even if you completely forgive him, and even if he completely regrets his actions. I just have to stress that it takes time to move past those feelings, no matter how well under control they seem. Again-no OW in my sitch, but there are still triggers that make me feel sick, nauseous, and temporarily go into a dark and hopeless place. Just the memory of how H was around the bomb still sends shudders down my spine. From his side-he is still resentful about things that happened ages ago and these crop up in conversation every now and again. Things are getting better though, and the times of panic are lessening. I guess my main point here is that just when you thought the process couldn't take any longer, it does! What you're dealing with is totally normal, and not at all a sign of anything more than the fact that things take time.

Hope you're enjoying your day!

ITH

I'm interested to see where this is all heading Ali. ITH has some good points. Your BF may not be acting depressed right now, but he will still have lingering effects from the guilt he probably feels. Let him work through it at his pace and I have a feeling everything will be fine.

You said you weren't really all hearts and flowers and romance the first time around, right? So why would this time be any different?

Sooooo.....projects almost complete? I'm so excited to see them!!!

Maybe it is becomming clearer why the DB people say that this time is where it really begins to get hard.

We think the separation is difficult, but the rebuilding is so much tougher than we can imagine.

Hang in there and try to still keep your expectations low for BF. I know that may sound weird as you are getting back into a relationship where there is a perception that there has to be expectations, but try not to have any expectations on him to the best of your ability.

RTL

I would also add, if you weren't the "romantic type" of couple before and you are wanting that, talk about it. As you well know he didn't pass his mind reading 101 exam.

If you want something at this point to be different from before you are going to have to spell it out for him.

hugs, kat

Thankyou so much everyone, I would like to answer to you all, but I have to go out... The show is up and done ! And things continue to go brilliantly with bf, no major issues at all.

One thing I noticed.. the legendary forgetfullness of the WAS. So he keeps complimenting me now we are back together (he was obviously deliberately NOT doing that whilst we were apart! Its such a change).. on my underwear and my dress last night. BUT, these are things I bought LAST year when I was manically DBing him and he saw them then, including the underwear when we stayed the night 4 times last summer.

I cannot imagine, if he had gotton a new outfit last summer that I would NOW say, wow, nice outfit, as though I had never seen it before (he genuinely seemed to have not noticed). How wierd??

He doesnt seem at all depressed. He is sleeping more soundly now (when I am there!) and ML is frankly, flipping amazing. There are issues of lack of romance still,which I need to hint to him about as someone here suggested, but he did take me for a walk on the coast path last night hand in hand, which was lovely. But for now, I feel truly blessed. As M from Tennesse said on Kalnis thread, it really is just luck I think if your spouse loved you all along and decides to come back. A lottery. I was one of the lucky ones and right now, its like the past 2 years is fading away already, as though it was all just a bad dream.

Somebody pinch me...

I am not pinching you for sure!!!!
xxx
K

Hi Ali

You probably don't remember me, but I posted a year ago when I was going through a very similar sitch with my husband who was also depressed. I have been following all this time and just wanted to post to say how happy I am for you now things are (finally!) falling into place.

I do think you have been AMAZINGLY patient this past 18 months, in that time I DB'd, eventually gave up and have filed for divorce and am now seeing a great new guy. I do think it goes to show that if you are meant to be with someone, you will be. And you maintained that pretty much all along, and your loyalty to your bf has been second to none.

Keeping everything crossed for you that things will continue to flourish!

Lea

(((((((((((Ali)))))))))))

Things must be going gangbusters with the show and BF! I am looking forward to hearing all about it.

Hey girls! Lea, of course I remember you! I wondered what had happened, thanks for following my sitch and for your update. I hope you are feeling happier now, but I am sorry that you divorced in the end.

So.. I have spent the last few nights with him.. he wants to see me alot now. He calls me in the day, texts, kisses me alot. Makes alot of "MMMmh" noises and squeezes me. And we are back to where we were sexually right up to the night he left.. NOT like a new couple who are finding their way. So thats all good of course! And last night, we again were all entwined in bed, watching a comedy.

Its all so nice, but its sort of making me a bit angry.. because this is EXACTLY where we were when he decided to leave me. So what the hell was the point of that 2 years of suffering?? I know, he had issues to work with, I had fears to let go of, we have both grown and that is positive, but.. its all reminding me that we had a pretty damn good R just when he decided he wanted out!! And we seem to be back there now. Except I whinge less and listen more and he's a bit more of a grown up and more self possessed. Other than that, theres no discernible difference. How can he do it? Come full circle like that? With NO discussion!!!!

He is sleeping soundly now, whereas he hadnt for months, maybe the whole time we were apart. He seems relieved, contented, loving (but still a little detached, his own man). And I am beginning to wonder if he will ever talk about what went on. Maybe he doesnt want to/need to? Maybe its up to me to bring it up, if its important to me? I really dont think he has any clue of the devastation I suffered.

A classic ilustration of this was, last night, I said I see myself as tall, it confuses me when poeple say I am tiny, or petite, because in my minds eye, I am a tall person. He said that this was a good thing but its because I am confident, with good self-esteem. I joked, no, its because I dont have a full length mirror. But, I was incredulous.. he sees me as confident and possessing good self-esteem!!?? After what he did!? But then, perhaps he is right.. as Lea said, I never doubted we'd get back together, so I didnt waver.

I realised today its 2 years since all this began. When he worked on a big project with Helen and her company. Well, today he had to revist that site (he did tell me) and seemed nervous this morning. I took his face in my hands and asked him "Are you working with anyone else on site today?".. he said, oh yes, the Cornwall contractor guy Tim and kissed me. I dont think he realised I meant Helen, or maybe he just doesnt want to go there. So I feel a bit odd today, he may still be in contact with her, at work (probable) or outside of work (doubtful).. but he has still never even mentioned her by name to me and I still dont feel like I am ALLOWED to ask him anything. Thats nuts hey? But the good thing is.. its was ME he sat in bed with eating toast this morning !!!! Geuss just got to keep taking it a day at a time and see what organically develops..

Hey Al,

I LOVE reading your thread and hearing all about how great BF is being.

I can completely understand you being angry, and I think eventually you guys will need to have a conversation about what happened. IMHO though, I think it might be worth waiting for a bit longer until BF is feeling even more secure in your love and your R. Once he's really ready I think he'll be in a great position to be the one comforting you and looking out for your wellbeing....

How did the exhibition go? When will you get your results?

L. xx

PS> I'm also a 'short' person who doesn't see themselves tht way. I'm always really shocked when people say I'm petitie because I think I'm a giant! BF is right- definitely a sign of self-estemm

You can read what you are going through now in DB or DR. You have sort of put your life, emotions and such on hold trying to get your significant other to "see" you, that now that SO is back, all of those feelings of yours come rushing back in. They have been on hold afterall!!

Just don't jump to conclusions. Make it comfortable to talk and I think you will actually be just fine.

hugs, kat

Hey HUGE lady!! What's up? OOOOOOppppps, please dont answer that!!!

Patience. He is acting as if. It is easier to pretend he didnt harm the R or hurt you. It's easier on him. Harder on you but you will get that discussion, I am sure.
Love ya
K

I am sure I posted this post before... Maybe I posted by accident on someone else's thread...

Hi Ali--you're doing great: keeping your relationship as only a PART of your life, getting on with your work, and not getting caught up in his issues. That shows such growth on your part!

He will talk to you. But it really does take 18-24 months before they're actually able to process that they hurt you. I found with my H (and read that this is what the LBS has to go through) that I could bring up things that bothered me before that point, but he couldn't really deal with them. Either he'd give me a defensive answer that I REALLY didn't want to hear (and which would differ drastically from his more clear-headed insight into that issue 18 months later), or he would withdraw. In fact, for a while if he saw me upset about anything, he'd guility assume it was about him and withdraw. It took a long time for him to be ABLE to discuss painful issues in a mature manner. But, once he got there, he couldn't stop himself, and had to keep apologizing for hurting me. Finally, he got to the point where he said he could forgive himself and let it go.

So, give yourself time, and continue getting on with your life till he's ready!

Hey Lisa, Kat, K! Seems I just need to keep plodding on for now hey?

And hi Cyrena!! You followed me here to piecing, cant believe i made it, on the other hand I always knew that I would (wierd huh). I saw a friend Tuesday, but he wanted me to drive to his after to stay the night. Last night I suggested we have Cher and G round for a barbecue. So I am not being too clingy with him and I am carrying on like before in lots of ways, as you say and involving friends, making it all fun and light so far...Thanks for saying it will take 18 months-2 years, you just reminded me, thats how long it took me after my EA before I was REALLY sorry and able to talk openly and also to forgive myself. So, yep, WAY too early yet!

Its hard though.. the more attached to him I get, the more nervous/insecure I feel (only a little, but its popping up here and there). I just called him but he sounded a bit not so bothered and a little distracted..so then I wasnt so confident with him! Grr. We are going back home tommorow for the weekend, together. SIL is having a baby and is in labour now. He still hasnt told me where we are staying, but I have a horrible feeling he may want to take me to my Mums or something and he will go to his. I hope not, I am still close to MIL and I am sure she would love to have us to stay, like we used to.

BUT, its the first visit home since Sept 07 where we are back to 'normal', as a couple.. so it makes it official now. Its a big milestone. My parents nearly saw him this week.. they were nearby with friends and I met them for a drink Monday night, he phoned 3 times when I was out, so I had invited him to join us, but he actually admitted he was nervous to meet my Mum (hasnt since we split)..I told him she would love to see him and he didnt have to worry about it at all. So.. we may see them this weekend, they want to and I want to get it out the way. Its going to be a big weekend, with SIL having the baby and being around his brother and MIL. I am excited.

AND he is coming to stay here tonight so we can get going at 6am, so another first.. he's only been into my bedroom once, briefly, after we split, just to stroke the cat.

I read somewhere that astrologically, this weekend and Friday in particular is like the "day of reckoning" for wherever you have paid your dues over the past months and months.. when you finally see the fruits of your labours (or not, depending on how you have handled it).. and its the day we go back home as a couple. So I hope it goes alrught and doesnt freak him out !!!

Hey, Ali!

I wish it would be easier for him to talk about how he hurt you too, but I'm afraid that conversation won't come from him for a long, long while. In fact, it may never come at all.

He may do things to say how sorry he was, but never really "tell" you about his guilt. That may be how he chooses to deal w/it.

You'll need to decide when the time comes if what he is able to do is enough for you. For now, you'll just need to find a way to deal w/the ghosts of the past two years and see if you can learn to co-exist w/them enough to where you can eventually ignore their existence.

I wish you luck w/that one b/c I know how hard it would be for me and I'm sure the others who have dealt w/it are saying similar things.

It will be natural for you to be a bit unsure of him for quite a while and it is ultimately up to him to prove to you that he's back and back for good.

Keep moving forward, but try to temper your expectations of him. Allow everything he does to be a wonderful, unexpected surprise during this time period. It is a lot to ask, but I know you can do it b/c you know how much benefit the end result will be.

You've struggled through two years and now that he's back, the struggle will be even tougher, but in a much different way.

Be good and hang in there, princess.

RTL

Hi there Ali...long time no post...

Just wanted to drop by and well, ya' know - say I hope things are going really well...

I can appreciate the weirdness! But blokes are weird creatures! They simply don't operate in the same way as women - the answers you crave will come...but I think - when he gets more comfortable and secure - that's when they'll come...and then, at that point - there'll only be a small window of opportunity... cos blokes - if I understand the species correctly(being one!) will want to spew it (and I'm typing this with some knowledge of said species!!!) and then move on to the future and onwards to the best bits without looking back!!!

Ali - what I'm saying is - if you're looking for a full blown, heart-felt apology and explanation - that might well be something your BF is going to find pretty difficult! Its not him! Its his genes so to speak! He will want to tell you but he can't! Not that he doesn't want to - he simply doesn't have the words and language to do it! In you BF's world things have moved on - and for the better back with you...

And, he will want to protect you from the stuff that has happened...yet you will want to know...Ali - if you can, consign certain things to the past and then look to the future...

Ali - don't let this gender difference upset your progress... you don't want a "metro-sexual" male anyway!

Best - Simon x

(((((Ali)))))

I keep forgetting to check in piecing!

I don't really have any advice, other than PATIENCE!

Ali,
I have no advice beyond what you're already getting, but I'm glad to see that things continue to perk along;

just wanted to stop in and say hello! Maybe you can catch up on my thread when you have a chance; I'm feeling lonely!

Peace,
Dawn

Hey Dawn... I just got back home, but I will check up on you tommorow!!

Rob, Simon, Jeff.. thanks for keeping up with me, its always so useful to get a mans perspective.. so you all think, wait a while and then he will WANT to talk, to draw a line under it...I hope so, because I am curious!! And I do have the odd resentment, which I have to brush aside, so we DO need to talk.

Well, had a very stressful weekend. MIL was not frosty, but NOT friendly to me.. and we were staying with her!! It was hard for me. On top of that, SIL had the baby, but wanted NO visitors!! So MIL was her usual self-obsessed self (she has got worse, V selfish and manipulative and domineering).. and was in tears and trying to get my BF to herself.. she managed it Saturday night and I waited in the house alone after getting back from my parents, but it was fine. Frankly, I didnt care. She was clearly jealous and nose out of joint that we are back together, she enjoyed having him to herself that 18 months. He is angry at her and said he is going to talk to her about it.. I didnt make ANY fuss at all, and smiled sweetly and said, ahh, well, she's lonely and depressed, I can see its difficult.. MIL from HELL!!! He was VERY good about it though.

Me and him are getting closer and closer and very loved up. He had a horrible weekend of family stress, what with his mother in meltdown, then the baby couldnt feed abd got sick and his brother was hard work.. but in the middle of this, I took him out for lunch Saturday and we had a lovely few hours shopping.. clothes for him and underwear for me!! I made it very fun and relaxed and he was grinning the whole time and just told me, that few hours was the best part of his weekend by far.

He has been leaning on me and confiding in me about family, quite stressed and irritable (not with me).. and I got resentful at one point (hid it!!) because its like the last 2 years DID NOT HAPPEN. We are so back to our old selves (except with constant hugging, holding hands and kissing) its a joke. So he's moaning about his Mum not coping, we had a hard weekend with her and he lent on me for support and I'm listening sweetly thinking.. I went through hell for 2 years and cried so hard I can no longer wear my contact lenses and you dont even want to know how I coped??

He came to my parents for an hour, despite being very nervous, but within minutes it was fine! My Mum said, how did he cope without you all that time? He clearly loves you and you are so close, its wierd.

Yep, still got no answers!!! All I can say is, we dont seem to need to talk about anything yet (we will!) we just seem happy to be back together. I always said though, pretty much all he needs to do is just come here, put his arms around me, kiss me and we will be 95% there. I feel very lucky really. There is a minefield of things to discuss and I still dont understand why he suddenly dropped me last August for her and I want to know why he stayed with her so long and how he feels about the whole thing now, on reflection.

xx

Not to put down any of our lovely men, but I don't think he has quite given himself time to reflect and I am not sure that men "need" that like we do. Sure he might "get" it here and there but not sure that he sat there just trying to evaluate the whole thing. He just knows that he feels lovely when he is with you and for now that may have to be enough. Don't over evaluate or you will stress both of you out.

kat

I know you already know this but......one day at a time. Don't look back and try not to look too far forward either. Take every day for what it is....a gift. You know how fleeting happiness is, having lost it, and you know not to take anything in your R for granted ever again. Great lessons for all of us, right?

I couldn't be happier for you! I love reading about the things you are doing together, the time you are spending, and the rekindling of your R. In regards to what you perceive as the lack of romance, you said you really didn't have that much in your R before, right? Since that is something you are desiring, make it happen. Slowly. Do something very romantic for him. Hopefully he will take a queue from you eventually and reciprocate. If he doesn't, and you are feeling comfortable enough by that point to speak to him about it, DO!

Again Ali, I'm tickled pink that you are getting this chance that so many of us dreamed about for ourselves for so long. It's a miracle that anyone ever makes it to the other side of this disaster.

Hey Kat, Mish..it seems wierd, but I do seem to have quite alot of power and its ok if I say things, or show emotion, he is always super supportive, flings his arms around me. So perhaps I could chance some questions?? Its wierd.. I keep looking at him thinking, but you didnt even phone me for 3 months and now, its like we were never apart. I guess its becuase men can comparmentalise??

I am very broke, I am trying to find work and I am shocked that all the temp agencies have only 1 or 2 jobs online, its the credit crunch. Last summer, there were loads of jobs available, its really shocking.

We are spending every night together now, he even wanted to see me after Tang Soo Do last night (I am grading on Sunday for my yellow belt!), so I dont think it will be long before we live together again.

I dont have any answers, but I just feel relieved that life is back to normal again. It occurred to me today "I have a boyfriend", like, I am allowed to think that now and tell people. We got back together on 16th May...the day Saturn went direct and 18 months to the day since he left me, but its taken me this long to get used to the idea! This morning was like we have rewound 2 years and its a normal morning, except, I am up and about too (less lazy) and he is more attentive and relaxed (less depressed).

I'm dying to ask him lots of things. I did take her numbers out of his work phone, for future reference, but no evidence of her. He happily goes through his camera and phone in front of me and shows me things and scrolls through his inbox.. so I dont think they have stayed in contact at all. He is not in contact with her at work as far as I can tell. I'm not threatened by her AT ALL, she is 100% history, but I am naturally curious!

He just hugs me ALL the time.. constant arms wrapped all around me. I wonder how much of an idiot he feels for leaving me in the first place?? I'm dying to ask him that too.. how he felt being apart, at what point he realised he wanted me back, how it felt ML to her when he didnt love her and thought about me every day.

I want some answers because we are in a bit of a numb zone right now, things are VERY back to normal, but theres lots of underlying unsaid things that need to be bought into the light and then laid to rest, forever. I dont intend to throw it back in his face or hold it against him, ever, I'm just not like that. We need to talk it through though, one example.. at the weekend, BMF cooked some pizza, my bf started saying how great this make was and how they sell them in his local shop and turned to me and said, they're really good arent they, remember we had one of these... and then trailed off, looked confused, then a bit troubled. I have never eaten this pizza before, so he must have confused me with Helen in his mind for a split second! I kind of felt sorry for him! We need to lay these ghosts to rest though.

You both need to be reassured but it appears to be in different ways. He needs to know that you are thrilled to have him back and you need to know that Helen didn't mean anything but then also why he stayed away. I don't think that you are at a point for a heavy conversation but maybe you could bring up somethings in a light sort of way.

The work has only begun, don't let it just stagnate because it is easier. However don't try to put it all out there at once. You may mention that you do need to talk sometime soon and go with that.

kat

Thanks Kat, you have made a good point... he needs reassurance too. Things are starting to leak out from him.. he seems to be under the assumption/fear(?) that I had someone else whilst we were apart !!!!!!

Last night he came over and fixed my car radio, fixed my bike, did some plumbing and took the front of my bath to mend something and fixed a light fitting in the hallway...(Acts of service, lovely, but still no goddamn flowers!!) I was appreciative but a bit quiet, he kept asking if I was ok and kissing me, but I was trying to find a way to say, its great you are doing all this, but its too late, I cant afford to live here anymore! But I couldnt say it and he wrongly interpreted my demeanour as not comfortable with what he was doing.

I forgot to say he asked me at the weekend if I wanted to be his gf.. did I want us to be together (he didnt add "again") and could he be my bf? I said yes of course.. but he suddenly said last night.. I DID ask you to be my gf the other night.. all insecureish, which surprised me! I didnt think HE would feel insecure. Its been nearly 4 weeks and I can see issues starting to emerge, after the initial excitement of being back together.

He has a bad rash which he assumes is exzcema and I have mouth ulcers... so I finally bravely asked him...

..are you worried about that rash?.. could you go get checked out? ..I mean.. generally, checked out..??

He was very good about it and said, yes, yes, of course, I'm more than happy to do that, do I go to the GP for that? I told him to look up GUI clinics in the phonebook. He kept saying calmly and looking quite serious, yes, of course I will..I asked if he minded me asking him to and he said, no, not at all..I told him it had been difficult to ask, I am sure everything is fine.. or perhaps I could get checked after him. He looked worried and joked.. what have you been up to? I said deadpan.. I havent been up to anything at all.. and he looked very guilty and said, OH sorry, sorry, I shouldnt make a joke like that and hugged me alot. I absolutely need to know that she didnt give him anything, to help draw a line under it.

His Mum phoned Monday night after we got home.. she DIDNT MENTION me at all, or me and him staying with her or being back together. Nothing. Thats astounding she has made no reference to it and I want to talk to him about that.. its so shocking she would say nothing after such a big seachange in his life, its absolutely indicative of the way he has been bought up and why he is the way he is.

Quote:

Thats astounding she has made no reference to it and I want to talk to him about that.. its so shocking she would say nothing after such a big seachange in his life, its absolutely indicative of the way he has been bought up and why he is the way he is.

Family of origin issues are the most prevalent type of disorder effecting R's. You and he will need to work through those if you feel they are hurting you, as I suspect they are since he stuffs his emotions and you want to express yours.

He has a rash and you have mouth ulcers? YIKE! Could they both be stress related? Quite possibly. Definitely have them checked though!

Ahhh....AOS....the WAS language of contrition.

Gabe still does AOS for me, I assume out of a guilty conscience. I let him...heck, I'm not one to turn down help due to my stubborn pride. I say let him do it, even if you aren't going to be able to stay there. Did you have a security deposit? Having those things fixed would get the deposit back then, right?

(((((Ali)))))

I know that to you it was a long two years. I'll bet he has no clue how long it was, without thinking about it. If he had to guess, without having time to think about it, he'd probably say it was 20 minutes. OK, maybe a bit longer than that, but you get the idea. What I am saying is that I think you had better be prepared for him to never really understand what you are feeling about this. In the cloud he was in I don't think he ever felt it the way you did. That doesn't make it right, but there it is.

Hey Ali

Jeff expressed precisely what I was thinking. When he left it was mainly because of his issues and he went along his own journey. The consequences of this on you were huge but a by-product all the same (isn't it horrible to think of that). He will be aware that he's hurt you and given you a pretty raw deal but he will have no idea to the extent of which you suffered, for want of a better word. I think if he did realise this at the moment it would send you both backwards so much. Choose the right time and for now put it on a shelf to be dealt with later - crap as that is for you!

Hey guys, thanks for reading my ramblings ! I know that sounded bad, I meant he DOES have exzcema and I have a mouth ulcer, but it was a way of me broaching him getting checked out. Its a mental thing really, I'm sure theres nothing wrong (although chlamydia is prevalent in the UK, so you never know!)

Mish.. absolutely, it was clear as day to me JUST how incapable she is of talking about emotions.. he even said he tried to talk to her about her being depressed and she firmly changed the subject like she hadnt heard him.. like 3 times!! He says he is going to write her a letter. We'll see. And yes, I am very expressive normally! Ahh, so AOS is guilt too? Well yep, would help me get the deposit back, thats true !

Hey Jeff.. thats a good point, I guess its hard for me to see it as he does, because I wasnt the one that got all foggy headed! I'm off over to his now, he is cooking me a roast dinner (yay!) and I wish we WOULD talk..

Hi Julia! Well it is a bit pants for me, I just want to clear the air and us to start afresh and forget what went on.. but theres so much air to clear, its like someone set fire to the curtains and forgot to open a window. But, he doesnt seem to want to talk about ANYTHING. Not yet anyway! We do need to talk about living arrangements at least. We seem to be together every night now and I cant imagine that will change...

If you are set on flowers, I think you will have drop the poor guy a hint. He isn't used to them meaning something and now that they do, just say it.

I know I dated one guy who gave me flowers all of the time. They quickly lost special meaning. They mean so much more when it isn't a special occasion behind the thought. My ex actually bought me a dozen long stemmed roses after our first argument! Could have saved a bundle if he knew my favorites were tulips. No I gladly took them and didn't mention my favorites.

Drop a hint and if that doesn't work...knock him on the head. LOL

kat

Ali....

I think that he thinks that be being back, the air is cleared! If you want more than that, you are goingt to have to push it. And you might not really like the result. Instead of getting the closure you are after it might make him think again of all the "reasons" he left in the first place. And that might not be a good thing.

Do you want to "fix" the old R, or build a new one? You might have to let go of the past.

There is no "you might want to let go of the past", there is YOU MUST LET GO of the past.

You've been saying all along you had a very good relationship but... you got here, so obviously something wasnt so fantastic and you had enough time to figure out where you both went wrong. Try to avoid mistakes of the past and even though you feel so "comfortable" with each other, at this point treat this as a new R and you will lead him to do the same. Flowers may then follow...

K

Is anyone going to beat me about the head and shoulders if I suggest saying to him, when he is going into his "busy bee" mode of fixing things for you and you are feeling disconnected, just something like, "If you want to do something for me, do you know what would really mean a lot to me, emotionally? I would really love it if you were to give me some flowers." You could fine-tune the wording, but it seems pretty straightforward to me. Of course, _I_ have a nodding acquaintance with logic since I haven't had my brain abducted by aliens (at least, I don't _think_ so...)!

Glad things are going so well, Ali!

Peace,
Dawn

Kat, Dawn... I guess I was hoping for a little bit of romance, is all. A sign that he really loves me and wants to treat me like a special girl, not just the friends we were for 18 months. I dont care that much about flowers, and I hate roses!! And no, he wasnt one to send flowers, but he WAS romantic in the early days.

Hey Jeff.. you think? You could be right, maybe as he's worked through it himself and is 'back' so doesnt feel explanations are necessary! But he asked me tonnes of questions for about 6 months after he moved back in after my EA! The questions did come from him though and I answered, but I didnt bring it up..hmm.

K.. I wish I had read your post before seeing him last night! You think I should just forget it, perhaps you are right. We did have a good R, as in we related well to each other, loving, respectful, fun etc.. but I was a PITA, getting ill and moaning alot and with his dads death and then depression, as he said, he 'snapped' I guess.

So I'm struggling a little bit. Last night was odd, I realised he was distant and it wasnt just becuase he was cooking a roast and cant multitask, so I asked if he was ok.. he said "Ye-eaaahhh"..he clearly wasnt, so on the third time I asked, he admitted that he felt "aloof".. I panicked, I felt my stomach flip and offered to leave if he wanted to be alone.. he said no of course not! That he just felt a bit aloof but I was welcome there.. and then a look crossed his face as he said "Ohh.. its just work..." and gabbled something about rock engineering. I thought this is BS. When there is something wrong, men often just say either "I'm just tired" or, oh, its work... He said that all the time June-Sept 07, right up until the first bomb.

So this made me nervous, my previous, relaxed, being myself state went west and I felt a little afraid. Later, he did lie with his head in my lap as I stroked his hair and we watched a comedy show, but still seemed distant, something had made him be a bit withdrawn. I wonder if the reality of his choice is sinking in?

... he is still writing the report for Helens team (but says he is working on it alone). Also, his good friend C was dating his receptionist, who is 22 (!) and they just broke up, but he mentions her alot, she works at a pub in his village and they go to lunch together, with others at work. This also makes me nervous. She is very pretty and he said she was a great girl and he was a fool to break up with her.

I feel like I need help here! I'm feeling a little insecure, just as we come up to the 4 week mark. Kalni, you were right about that. So I tried to NOT worry and act as-if, but I feel I needing just a little reassurance, so far he has only once said "I love you"... when we got in from the pub and thats about it, no conversation. It was his idea to have me there for a roast and see me this often. Tonight we are supposed to be going out with friends, but I told him I am going to an extra Tang Soo Do lesson now instead and why didnt he meet G and Cher and another mate on his own if he liked. We left it that he would talk to me later.

I think Ali, you I need to learn the same thing. We can't read something personal into every action, every word. If we continue this way, we are going to end up in the nut house all alone!! LOL Step back...would you want him analyzing everything you did and taking it as a possible bad sign? Of course not.

Maybe you should do 5 set ups or push-ups or something similar every time you have one of those thoughts. That will put an end to those bad thoughts huh!

One step at a time. Hugs, kat

Hi Ali,

It sounds like everything is going really well, and you are a lot closer to having things be back to "normal" than most of us at that stage in piecing. In fact once you got back together, it seems like things started moving very quickly.

From my own experience I have to say that I can count on 1 hand, maybe 2, how many times H has said "ILY" since I moved back in-and it's been 7 months. I remember Pisces, when she got back together with her H, also said that he never said "ILY", even though he would say other things showing that this is what he meant. In my H's case he says things about himself in the 3rd person sometimes, like "he loves you", and he often makes reference to me loving him. I know each sitch is different, but the inability to completely share these kinds of feelings seems to be a common thread. My point here is, don't let the words-or lack of them-throw you off.

Also sometimes they go back to being a bit distant. If it's any consolation, I am seeing this less and less, but it's only over the last 3 weeks or so that I have felt comfortable saying that the distance issue is mostly over. So in all likelihood you will get there, you will get to the point where he won't have these "episodes" or maybe he will and you will feel more secure in the fact that they really do have nothing to do with you. I know your BF was a walkaway, and I know that he was with another woman, but he has been through a lot to get to this point where he is back with you. You yourself have said that he doesn't have a history as a womanizer. I wouldn't assume that there is anything at all with this 22 year old. Sure, maybe she's pretty and a great girl, but he has chosen you.

What I had to do in my case was to retain a bit of emotional distance for quite some time. I don't mean to say at all that I actually got to the point where I was OK with the distance and thought it was easy to handle, but I got to the point where I felt that it was helping me move in the right direction. By emotional distance I mean not really talking to H about feelings, and certainly not showing any emotion when he did things that made me insecure. Of course it's not healthy to be an emotional robot indefinitely, but I really found that by giving this emotional space, there was less of a risk of my H demanding physical space again. I was leaving him to process his own issues, without adding mine to his shoulders. Is it fair? No, but it does seem to work and the end result is worth the initial frustration.

Anyway I think you are doing really well. Just keep in mind that it may not be smooth sailing for awhile, but at least you're on the right course!

ITH

Hi Ali,

I second everything ITH says. My H, too, took months to get to the point where he could say ILY regularly. He too would often say it in the 3rd person (still does, occasionally), or reference me loving him, etc. Also, periods of connection were followed by periods of distancing for months. But remember, they do need the distance in order to process their changes.

Part of my H's MLC was that he didn't want to feel he was with the last woman he'd ever be with (I think), and after coming back he still felt he wanted female "friends" for awhile. It took about 8 months before he came to the recognition that if he shared his emotional feelings with others instead of with me, it took away from our relationship. At that point he stopped depending emotionally on some of the female friends he'd made during his MLC.

And I totally agree that the only way to get past this is to act as if--to "hold onto" yourself so that you can remain upbeat and hopeful, without becoming too caught up in his mood swings. Also, it's a good idea to give yourself some space--evenings to yourself, etc--to focus on YOU.

By this point, you know what you want in a relationship, and it includes open communication, and it's frustrating and disappointing to have the opposite at the moment. But never lose sight of what your ideal relationship will look like, and gradually it will start to take on that shape.

How has this weekend been Ali?

Ali,

My H actually never left home but he had an 18 month A with one of his staff and when I found out it was touch and go for a week whether or not he would go.

Once he recommitted though at the end of the week things seemed to fall back into place fairly quickly, like with you, BUT I knew that he still wanted to let the OW down gently and I had times of feeling distant and worrying. He was 100% transparent and was caring and helpful like your BF is being.

Just to let you know though, it took a full year before he out of the blue apologised for what he had done and said he couldn't believe he had acted the way he had. He said that he never thought he would be the kind of guy to act that way and he was embarrassed at being such a cliche. I don't know what prompted him saying those things but it really helped in the healing process.

So be patient, things will happen when they are meant to.

((((((((((Ali)))))))))))))

You're MIA chica! Where you at?????

She is fine. Talked to her today. She passed her degree!!!! So, I am offering drinks to celebrate until she comes back from pampering that beaver of hers...

S

Hey kids, sorry for not posting, I've had a watershed few days.. had a BIG talk with bf last night and he wants to move back in. I also got my degree result.. and I passed! I didnt do as well as I hoped, but I finished and done AND on the same day as bf said this morning, NOT to give notice on my house today (as I cant afford to live here alone anymore).. but that he will move back in. So, what wierd timing that was.

Mish.. thanks for checking on me, I told bf about you last night! He asked how I knew Kalni and I ended up telling him about a "support group". He looked very upset but I told him it was great and had made lots of friends there... Ditto Kat! Funny, I did more than 5 pressups yesterday and I am paying for it today..but thats because I went to the Tang Soo Do grading and I got my yellow belt...woohoo!!!

Hey ITH, I never really 'got' it before when I used to read how you struggled with your H.. but I do now. We have to hold our own so to speak and NOT put any emotion on them, or just tiny bits. But yes, things have moved very fast for me and him and after just 4 weeks he has agreed to move back in.. but yes he still hasnt said "I love you" apart from that one time a few weeks ago, after he had had some drinks !

Saffie, thanks for your post.. you reminded me that although I was sorry and loving after my EA, it was also probably a year later before I was able to REALLY express how sorry I was. I can see in him that he is embarressed too for how he was a WA like that and didnt talk to me, but he is still reticent to talk directly about stuff and I am finding it easier to let it go and wait for it to all come out organically..

Cyrena, hello! He is behaving in similiar ways to your H.. he has a female friend coming to stay in a few weeks.. she is the BF of his BMF and they once dated about 14 years ago. Shes never stayed with him before and has broken up with her bf, so I was concerned when I found out and didnt hide it too well, but he was very reassuring and said it was "sweet" that I checked if there was anything to worry about. I shutup pretty quick and havent mentioned it again. He ended up telling me last night that the 22 year old is "not really a mate" so I am not concerned about her either.. but I see a little resistance in him still..but as he has said he wants to move back in, I'm going to wait for the commitment and not worry for now.

K.. thanks for the drinks !! I have a funny story to tell you sometime too about that book..

So we had a big talk, mainly about him and his depression and although we skirted around some things (the time we spent apart and Helen) I did refer to it a little. But this is what I learnt from him...

- He was unhappy in himself and couldnt work out why. Not a normal feeling fed up, but really down.. and day to day it wasnt getting better and he spiralled down until he felt he didnt know who he was, or what he wanted. He was very depressed and it got worse after he left, he admitted to feeling "very low and desperate" last summer.

- He said it really wasnt about me, or my fault.. that he was unhappy and had been "all his life" and to some extent still is at times, but he IS less depressed, calmer and much better these past few weeks and said his friends had noticed and commented on it. He didnt want to blame his depression 100% (for leaving I presume he meant), but that essentially that was why. But that he realises it was about HIS unhappiness and thats something that was in him and had always been there, but at the time he couldnt work out what was making him unhappy. I assume he means he has now learnt that it wasnt me, or the R and therefore, he was wrong to throw that away in the mistake that I or the R was the root of his unhappiness.

- He said he wants to be 'normal' again, not to feel that way anymore. He is not having C anymore, but wants to go back on ADs. He explained that he had no confidence and very low self esteem and thats what leads him to be SUCH good company, so funny and have so many friends.. as he cant bear to feel foolish, or look silly, or to be boring even, as he regards that as a form of feeling foolish or embarressed and when he does he feels less than an inch high, so he is always compelled to be the life and the soul, the funny guy and show lots of interest in people and what they are up to..to the extent he has lost sight of who HE is and he doesnt know anymore, but maybe that person IS who he is now, after years of acting that way. Although I know him well, as he said..the extent of how he feels surprised me even. He insisted he has no confidence, which is NOT how he comes across amongst friends (he is very funny and chatty).

- The lack of confidence, depression and apathy to make decisions or go for things in life are all directly as a result of his upbringing and how his Mum and Dad were and how they stayed in jobs they hated for years, too fearful to leave and how they were in a loveless M and how they both had long term depression and wouldnt admit it either..

- He agrees that although he is upset at his Mum and brother for never talking to him about their feelings or being open and honest.. he is nearly as bad as they are and he needs to talk to me more. He said he felt before the bomb that he couldnt say, "I feel unhappy all the time, but I dont know why" because that sounded "pathetic" and he felt a fool. That when he didnt talk about how he felt its mostly because he doesnt know what he wants to say and cant work out how he feels, just a general feeling of joylessness. So.. he ended up leaving.. but it made him feel worse. He said he felt joylessness just now, as we walked along a coast path.. I said I noticed a change in his mood and worried it was me.. he said, "No, NOT AT ALL.. I was just looking out to sea, thinking, yes thats a beautiful view, but.. so what? Its like, it doesnt really touch me." It struck me that if this is really how he is, its a lot to take on, but that I love him and I can handle it (I am back to my 'normal' state of stable and happy go lucky and other peoples moods dont drag me down).

- He agreed he had taken a 'detour' and a 'holiday' as I put it, from us.. I joked, including a holiday romance even! and he grimaced and shuddered and said no.. so I said, it wasnt? (I took it he meant there was no 'romance' about it).. all he said in reply was a grim "No... mistake". And that was that for now.

- He said, ideally he wanted to take it a bit slower, but as he has to find a new housemate immediately to share with, or leave, and I cant afford this house alone anymore, cicrumstances meant he should move back in here sooner rather than later, but we could look for a new place then together.. I was a bit unsure at his less than enthusiastic way he put it and so was quite cool and said I didnt expect him to do that.. but he ended up saying he wanted to live with me, very much so and that he felt it was a good thing that circumstances meant he had to make a decision.. it was the kick up the arse he needed, as he was very bad and slow to make decisions, buries his head in the sand and lets things drift too much in life, so he saw it as positive.

So..the mystery begins to unravel. Basically, this WA was very much about depression and him hitting a crisis in life and in his basic personality even, losing sight of himself, probably precipitated by the death of his Dad followed by the stressful move from our hometown to rainy Cornwall where we had no friends. Answers at last hey !! And the last thing he said was "Thankyou, so much, for listening".. so, still DBing hey!

Are you sure he is a Leo?? Sounds more like a Libra to me! lol Just trying to lighten the mood. So it is good that he is starting to come more to terms with himself and his own self-esteem issues. Men are brought up to not show their "weak"(aka emotional) sides and I think that causes so many more problems than it helps. But if he can see these issues in himself, he is at least on the right road to get past them.

Don't try to take all of his issues on but be a sounding board and let him know that you support him. Keep working on being the confident and lovely and happy self that we all know and love.

Quick horoscope question: Do you believe that they are/can be fairly accurate predictors of the future? I did a compatability one not that long ago and some of the things it said appear to be earily accurate!

hugs, kat

(((((Ali)))))

Quote:

I also got my degree result.. and I passed! I didnt do as well as I hoped, but I finished and done

Well, you know what they call the person that graduates last in the class at medical school? "Doctor"!...... Congratulations!

I think what you BF has told you seems pretty consistent with his behavior. Just go slow! In a way I wish he didn't "have" to move back in with you... I think it would be better if there was less pressure on it. But, not much can be done about that. Just try to make sure both of you have space to remain individuals, even when you are a couple! (Good advice for all of us, in my opinion!)

Oh I feel really bad that I didn't catch that part! Yeah!!! Way to go Ali! I was just so caught up with the feelings part( so like me)! I am proud of you and happy for you.

kat

CONGRATULATIONS ALI!!!!!!!!
I wish I could see your art in person!!!!!!!!!

LOVE
T

Hey T, Jeff, Kat, thanks for your kinds words and well dones!

Kat it seems it CAN accurately predict the future. I had told my Mum and Dad at Christmas that we wouldn't get back together until Saturn went forwards and not before.. we got back together on 16th May... the DAY Saturn went direct. FREAKY !!

So I gave him a night off last night to spend all night catching up with phonecalls to friends. Tonight he's coming to mine. He rang his landlord and gave notice on his place last night, but said he was disappointed it had to be a months notice, seeing as its a friend of a friend, but he would see what he could do about it.. so I took that to mean he was hoping to move in with me sooner than a month! He sounded a bit down last night, but said he was ok. So, either he was ok, or is still not able to tell me how he really feels at times?

Jeff, I'm concerned about him moving back in here and yes we need to still retain 'space'. But we talked about some things and he said at least we both agree.. that we want to make sure we have fun, but not to drift anymore. I said I want to have fun but with a purpose and not drift along, he agreed and said its like this kayaking course we are doing at the weekend.. fun, but which is deliberate, something I've always wanted to do, I dont just want to just drift about and go out for drinks all the time.

When I meant "not drift" I meant, get M.. he thought I meant organised activities..oh dear !! Oh well, I guess there will be time to tackle that in the coming months.

All in good time it would seem. It has been a month now, do you feel as if some of your questions have been answered? Keep yourselves growing and not be stagnate and you may be surprised where you end up!

Also don't forget to give each other room/space as you said. Don't always be available because you are together. Do things on your own still and allow him that too. Oh, and don't forget to talk!!

kat

You sound so good and grounded Ali! I'm never sure what the heck to say, but I'm extremely happy for you!

Congrats on your degree BTW!

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Ooohh...Julia get the award for most colorful response!

Hey Al,

Sorry I'm late- CONGRATULATIONS on the pass. That's fantastic news! What next now that the degree is over?

I'm really pleased that BF is moving more and more towards you- how exciting that he's moving back in. I know there's all the stuff about being careful and watching detachment and space. But it's also so COOL! I'm really happy for you!

L. xx

Thanks girls for the congratulations !! Mish its just nice that you are happy for me. I keep posting, I want to keep up with others and also say things that may help, if I can! And yes Lisa.. it is VERY cool !!!

Kat, I do feel pretty calm and grounded these days and alot back to my old self..I do feel as though alot of my questions have been answered or that things are sooo back to normal (but better!) that it doesnt even matter anymore. We are getting a takeway from a top restaurant tonight.. I suggested a cheaper place near to his old flat and he said no, it was awful there..which made me think, he probably went there with Helen.. but so what? His head is probs full of bad memories and he shudders at the thought of her!!

But in terms of answers.. I am still curious as to how HE feels about her and why he dated her instead of came back to me last summer.. or even, if he really did fancy her before he left me. Its highly suspicious that he never mentioned he was working with her in June 2007 and was ringing her on his mobile when he went out for walks Aug-Oct.. so, just to draw a line under it, I would like him to respect me and my intuition enough to just admit that to me!! I just want to know, if she was a catalyst for him leaving, and then I will let it go as I'm pretty good at letting stuff go! At least I know, 100%, its over for good. Phew!

He hugged and kissed me last night in support of our dear cat that died the week before the bomb and this is the FIRST time he has mentioned it since he died in Oct 07. But more wierdly, I have a cold or hayfever, but havent mentioned it to him, just sniff alot.. Last night he was talking about his phonecalls with friends then suddenly said.. oh sorry, I havent even asked how you are today!..how are you? are you ok? and.. h you have a cold, are you alright?? He kept on all evening, fussing, eventhough I said I was fine, but he was super concerned and insisted on fetching me tissues etc.. But I had told him at our big talk Sunday that I had depression and was bad Aug - Feb, but had been ok since March and I was only telling him so that he knew that I understand now what its like for him having depression, and NOT to make him feel guilty. He was upset and I am feeling he is more and more aware of just how much he abandoned and hurt me and the effect it had and wants to make up for it by being super caring and helpful all the time.

SO wierd, what wierd tunnel do they go down when they leave? Its like they are incapable of being honest, or voicing real emotions, or showing concern and yet, once they are back.. the floodgates open.

I wonder if in his mind the cat just died. You know, even though it happened 20 months ago, the impact of it is just now hitting him because he was so stuck in his head all this time.

Just a thought.....

I agree this all seems like a drop in the bucket of time to him. An eternity to you. The reality lies somewhere in the middle. I am so glad you hung in there and believed your intuition. I am crossing my fingers that my situation works out at least half as well as yours. Hugs.

kat

Hey, Ali!

I just got back from my niece's wedding in Georgia, so I'm now all caught up w/you.

First off, very big congratulations to you for your work w/your degree. That must feel like a ton of bricks has been lifted from your shoulders. Good for you!

Also, good news on BF's opening up a bit and wanting to come back in. That is great, but I will caution you like the others have that you'll still need to be very careful, slow and cautious w/him.

Remember, it didn't break overnight and it won't repair overnight either.

As for his "talking" he may or may not ever be able to verbalize what you want him to, so you'll need to decide in time if that will be good enough for you to move forward. He doesn't sound like much of an outward talker about his feelings and if he's not going to continue his IC, he may be more inclined to keep his "guilt" inside and try and "show" you he's sorry rather than telling you or giving you "details."

Then again, you may decide you really don't want to know b/c you may not be able to live with what he tells you.

Again, this will all unravel in time, but make sure for now, you are taking your time as you rebuild your R.

I'm also pleased he's realized he needs to be back on his meds, so that too should really help him...once they kick in in 4-6 weeks, that is.

You sound good and things seem to be starting well for you this summer. Good for you, princess! Keep it up!
RTL

Hey RTL! You were here in GA and didn't even say hi..*sniff*.

Kidding of course!

(((((((((Ali))))))))))))

How are you doing today sweetie?

Interesting idea that its like time stood still for him. I guess he was very depressed and desperate and I was thinking these past few days, he seems SOOO differnet, his old self again and everything is so fine between us, its like.. did it really happen, or did I dream all of this !!??? Its very bizarre.

Thanks ROb, Kat and Mish, so nice to be able to post a happy ending here but I continue to realise how lucky and blessed I am. I dont really feel the need to take it slow or be careful or any of those things either Rob, its just so ok between us, no awkwardness, no holding back, no frowns, cross words, atmospoheres, nothing! Just lots of cuddles and kisses and enjoying being together.. like a feeling of immense relief on both sides is how I would describe it.

He continues to be aware of me being careful.. like I try and make him decide on things and he says, No, YOU decide! Or I apologise here and there and hesays "Please, DONT apologise anymore".. so he is not stupid and any last traces of dbing in my demeanour are obvious to him.. I think he wants me to relax and not worry anymore and on the whole, I'm not worried !!

I always said, it felt like a "life interrupted" and now its normal again (but I would say, better). I looked at him yesterday and thought.. wow, we made it, we really made it.
xxx

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

I looked at him yesterday and thought.. wow, we made it, we really made it.

You did, didnt you? I am happy for you Al, you know that...
K

Package arrived today!!!!

Ali,

I'm so glad to see things are going well for you and BF, Princess. You are one of us who has made it back from the oblivion.

Now all you have to do is rebuild and start anew!

You replied to me w/the following and on one hand I'm THRILLED for you, but on the other hand I'm a bit nervous. Here is what you wrote:

Quote:

I dont really feel the need to take it slow or be careful or any of those things either Rob, its just so ok between us, no awkwardness, no holding back, no frowns, cross words, atmospoheres, nothing! Just lots of cuddles and kisses and enjoying being together.. like a feeling of immense relief on both sides is how I would describe it.

Why does this make me nervous? Because I'm scared there may be some denial here. You also posted that you have so many questions about his involvemnet w/Helen that still bother you.

I guess that is why I'm ocncerned b/c you're saying things are back to "normal" or at least "feeling normal." Well, normal is still broken, isn't it?

I'm preaching caution here b/c BF still has miles and miles to go to clean up his own messy garage, while you did some soul searching in his absence.

I don't want to be a downer here, which is why I've put off posting this for several days now, but I'm fearful that you are so excited to be back w/him that you may be overlooking some real, definite issues that still linger.

Again, only posting b/c I care. If I'm off base, then so be it as I've been wrong many times before ...just ask my XW...and she'll lay out an entire laundry list of my being wrong, I'm sure.

I can only speculate how wonderful it must be to have him "back" after what you went through as that was/is the goal of so many of us here. However, I'm just playing a bit of the Devil's advocate here.

Like everything, I write w/the best of intentions and take what you can use and delete the rest, Princess.

RTL

(((((Ali)))))

I keep forgetting to check here!

I think you have your head on straight here, don't expect too much, too fast. One problem is that he might! Not sure what to say to that, except be careful!

Quote:

Why does this make me nervous? Because I'm scared there may be some denial here. You also posted that you have so many questions about his involvemnet w/Helen that still bother you.

I guess that is why I'm ocncerned b/c you're saying things are back to "normal" or at least "feeling normal." Well, normal is still broken, isn't it?

I'm preaching caution here b/c BF still has miles and miles to go to clean up his own messy garage, while you did some soul searching in his absence.

A
I don't want to be a downer here, which is why I've put off posting this for several days now, but I'm fearful that you are so excited to be back w/him that you may be overlooking some real, definite issues that still linger.

Ok, after reading again Rob's and BNDs posts, I want to say something. First of all I am happy for you, that you get this chance, that he seems "dedicated" to you, that you do share this deep connection you always talked aboutt.

I agree that things should not move very fast but I understand that the logistics may not leave you an option. As far as the "difficulties" you are facing, I am always worried when things look "normal" very quickly because this is what I've experienced with H and he always hid things under the carpet until we stumbled on them and hurt ourselves. So, by this, I am trying to say that I agree that you should be careful and try to deal with things slowly rather than pretend that nothing has happened. I just feel you need to do that AFTER a few weeks have gone by, in order for you guys to feel safe to open up to each other and deal with what needs to be dealt.

In my case, I tried to lay everything down and demand and request and kill the ghosts and not settle and, and, and, and... you know it hasnt worked either. I suggest you head for the middle ground. Hope my English is not very confusing,
love
M

(((Ali)))

I have to say I think Kalni makes a lot of sense. You guys need to get used to each other again for a while and be ok in each others company and then address things that need to be addressed. That is how I would approach it (if I ever get the chance!).

I don't see a problem with you guys living together so long as it is his suggestion. He needs to come to that decision. JMO - what do I know!

Hello everyone, sorry for not posting much, I actually am not getting much time to myself these days!! Ha, to think I would find that a problem. Rob, BND, thanks for your concerns and keeping up with me, I really appreciate it! You too Jeff

I am well aware of the issues he has and we have spoken about it so I dont disregard it at all. His exczema is very bad, worst I've ever seen it and he said its stress related. He went to the Drs and got back on ADs yesterday, his own doing. I only found out then that he stopped taking them last October, but he knows he needs them as he still gets down days.

Julia, yes, I think K has it about right too and yes, it was all his decision and I let him 'drive' it. So he asked me to give notice and I cant move out of here until 15 August, but I think I will be moving into his place sooner. We changed the plan, I offered to live at his place as then he will feel more ownership and it will be more of a fresh start for us.

K, no your English was perfect as ever!! So last night I made my first ever demand, shall we say, I said I felt sad (packed up last of my show and left college) and I felt like I needed a treat, a romantic meal! And he replied that he had already intended to cook me dinner, which he did.

So alot has happened/been said and I have made him cry twice without meaning to !! We had a BIG talk Saturday night, he started it, we were in the pub with friends, but we had only had one or two drinks so it wasnt alchohol induced.

He hardly spoke to the friends we met (unlike him!!) but hugged and kissed me alot and chatted/flirted with me (this really has been like dating all over again). He picked me up and put me on a step at one point so we were at perfect kissing height, for example. Then he got very serious, he said...

What damn it??????????/

(Sorry K!!! x)...he was soooo sorry, he put me through so much and for what? all for nothing.. I said, well it wasnt for nothing. He agreed that we have both made mistakes and had regrets at times, but no more messing about now, he wanted this to be it, for life, to not drift anymore, this is for keeps! He said he cant believe his luck that I took him back after what he put me through and he feels so lucky and blessed and I said that we were both lucky and blessed and he agreed and stressed its for keeps now.. but joked he wouldnt hold me to it if in 30 years time I decide to leave him. The way he was talking, I was worried he was about to propose there and then (I hope he does, just a little more special than the local village pub!).

He said he loved me, soo much, I really really do...so I feel able to ask little things now, but I keep it to an absolute minimum still.. I agree with you all that more time needs to pass whilst we reestablish ourselves as a couple. So I asked about Christmas Day and he said he DID think of me, of course, very much and got teary then.. I joked he owed me a skiing holiday... he got very serious and said he had been thinking the same and he would LOVE that and wants us to (I got the impression it would be healing for him, for his regrets). I said he was busy having a good time, he said, no, not really.

He bought up the fact that February was our 10 year anniversary.. I said it would have been and he looked upset again and kept hugging me trying not to cry, so I laughed and said ok, what the hell, lets call it our 10 year anniversary anyway if you like, whose gonna argue?!

He shamefully admitted that he never went to the comedy show I got tickets for, which was last November, that it "wouldnt have been right" (to take her I guess) and it had upset him to lie to me about going.

So another mystery solved !!! He said, I know theres things you need to know and want to ask in time and thats ok, but this is it for me now, I want us to be ok now. I asked him if it was difficult.. at work... (meaning her, we never use her name of even the word "her").. he said no, not at all and some words that made me realise he has had NO contact with her since they split up, which I was glad about.

My parents were here Thu-Mon (we took them to bandnight and they loved it !!) and they all got on great and it went very well. We were on a 2 day kayaking course which was brilliant, but he did nosedive the last afternoon and got irritable (depressed). It was quite hard on me, but he was ok by the evening and we talked about it (hence him going back on ADs).

Last night was our first 'normal' night.. he cooked whilst I did some chores and I no longer feel like I need to be this flirty girty firecracker, I can be myself and wind down a bit around him, after our fun weekend.

So, theres more layers to unpeel but he seems more and more regretful and like he IS emerging from a sleepwalk, or fog, realising what he has done. I made him cry by accident..he was amazed I got a deli curry from Asda reduced to 50p last night.. I said, now you see how come I ate ready meals alot. He said but you have to be there every evening to take advantage and I absentmindedly said I was, I used to go to Asda every night just for something to do (I did in those early dark days!)...he stopped and looked at me in shock and said you're kidding? Seriously? I joked what a saddo, going to Asda for company.. and then realised what I had said as he started crying. He hugged me and cried for ages and I just rubbed his back and said, it was hard.. and hugged him, then we joked about the dinner burning and we left it there...

So little bits are being revealed of what I went through, but he can only handle the minimun!

This sounds VERY healthy to me Ali. It has to be a slow opening, like a rose opening to the morning sun....oh gads...I'm sounding sappy and ridiculous...sorry! Ok, how about an onion...peeling back the layers.

HA!

I'm nearly in tears because I'm so happy and excited for you to have the opportunity to build a new love with your old love. Please keep us up to date on how you are working through it all. A success story in the making!

Hey Ali,

Just wanted to thank you for your support on my thread. I posted my response there. Congrats on the return of your BF!

Hi Silver, you're welcome! Thankyou Mish, thats really sweet of you...

Its not easy, in fact its getting a little harder. BND you said I may be "so excited" to be back with him, but thats not how I would describe it, I dont feel excited! Its more just a feeling of relief, normality, like I was on high alert for nearly 2 years, on red and I just downgraded to orange, or yellow really.

Yesterday he took the afternoon off and we went to a beautiful little cove the tourists dont know about and had a lovely, relaxing afternoon reading. But as the evening wore on I felt.. depressed, distant. He kept asking if I was alright alot (I think he is getting worried I am having second thoughts). Eventually I told him what it was, as he wanted to know.. I said, we last went to that cove for the afternoon Aug 2007.. I tried so hard.. to be alluring, attractive, to get you to notice me, but you werent interested, you hardly spoke to me, I tried so hard.. by this time tears were rolling down my cheeks and he was shocked (did he really not realise HOW much he hurt me !!??) and hugged me and said he was soo sorry, but "I was unhinged back then".. So, he really was not in his right mind and presumably, now is. Wierd hey? More answers though.

This morning we were discussing my new bed, did he like it? I said others did.. he span around... Oh really?? WHO? and was genuinely worried.. I couldnt believe it, did he not notice how committed I was, how I tried to win him back during our S? Perhaps he thought I did something once he was with Helen. He quizzed me a little, saying he didnt know how many then tried to say he was only teasing. But I didnt let him get away with that, I said, no you're not, you are trying to find out if there was anyone else in my bed.. well there wasnt, only you. I said I didnt know how many either.. but he looked ashamed and said you KNOW how many.. I then asked him, would he have been jealous? He said "Hell yes!"

So guess it was just Helen then between us. He never was into one night stands.

So the little snippets of hurt and shame keep leaking out, but in amongst, we laugh and cuddle alot at least.

You are doing so well!

I don't think it would hurt him to know how very nearly you did have someone else in your bed-- that your previous soulmate tried very hard to get back together with you in his absence. I hope he realizes just how lucky he is you waited for him!

Dear Ali,

You sound so good. I'm amazed to hear how much stuff is coming out already--how many hidden unspoken questions are coming to the surface. It takes courage and strength to confront the past and ask those questions and listen to the answers. !!!

I don't even remember if I already posted this since I've been thinking about it for so long. But I wonder if the reason why BF has been doing SOOO many acts of service for you was to PROVE that he is truly serious about returning to you. maybe that is his way of saying, this is for real, I'm ready to come home, I'm really ready to help you and create a beautiful home together, I'm ready to watch your back and fix things that aren't working and provide however I can with my services. Maybe to him that shows more commitment/courage than a romantic gesture like flowers or a sexy dinner.

????

LOVE!
T

Andabelle.. you are right and well remembered! I did actually say it on purpose, in a mysterious voice, to judge his reaction "Well.. others liked my bed..." but I put him out of his misery! I am considering telling him about the piscean though, I think I will eventually tell him someone else wanted to marry me, yes.

Hi T!.. I think you are right. He keeps wanting to make everything ok and has been super accommodating about the new plan to move to his place, offering to take furniture there to the tip, to fit all of mine/ours in, to paint rooms etc. He does seem to want to make it right, perhaps his way of reassuring me, yes.

Thanks for saying I have courage.. it is hard, I think my resentments are surfacing. I dont understand how he managed to spend 8 months with her (7? 6 at best?) and take her on a weeks skiing holiday with his brother and SIL for Christmas. It sort of seems too surreal. His Mum is here for the weekend, she has made NO reference to us being together.. only mentioned me twice in answer to him telling her something. She hasnt asked him about his depression though either, she's pretty self involved.

I really love him, but sometimes I wonder if we will be ok or not, or if too much hurt and separation occurred. I think we are faring pretty well so far, considering. I told him how hard it was when I found out abuot Helen, how I cried for 3 weeks. He got very teary.. I said, you didnt even tell me yourself, why not? He said, I couldnt..I felt so guilty and ashamed. Yep, the two pinnacles of the WAS, guilt and shame!!

Remember Michelle saying that because the LBS has spent so much time and energy focusing on the WAS that when they begin to piece the relationship back together there will be a flood of emotions from the LBS. The WAS has been the focus or goal for so long. Of course you are going to have these feelings.

No one said it was going to be a walk in the park!

hugs, kat

Thanks Kat, I forget that I was dbing for so long and I was a LBS, its wierd sometimes, surreal, but I am having a lot of feelings that are surfacing and its harder to hide. He twice said this weekend whats wrong, you look upset? My face never lies! We're still very huggy and kissy though.

Had a hard weekend, MIL came to stay at his house (soon to be ours) and I spent the weekend there, as he wanted me there. I dont think she is thrilled we are back together, but I dont know if thats because she thinks I hurt him (?!) I am wrong for him and he shouldnt have gone 'back' or she's just nose out of joint to no longer have him all to herself (probably). She was very possessive of him, it was awful and I found her lack of acceptance of me upsetting. He said not to take it personally, she lacks tact and shows no interest in his life either, neverlone mine, but she doesnt respect his boundaries or my status in his life.

Yesterday, we woke up early, but when I came out the shower, he was naked in bed (covered up) looking not happy but "sorry, I couldnt stop her" look on his face whilst she was sat on the edge of the bed in a silky nightie with my discarded pants at her feet... my jaw dropped open with shock. She didnt even move then until he said, um Mum, I want to get up now... He's a 35 year old man and thats OUR bedroom. Wrong !!!!

She kept taking his other arm when we were walking, or hugging him, arms encircling waist and leaning her head on his shoulder (weird !!???) and talked about things she got for him to help him out, like the microwave and teatowels (all things she gave him WHEN HE LEFT ME !!! We had all that stuff of course, we lived together for 8 years). And when she said goodbye, she barely lifted her arms to me and dropped them again quickly. She kept saying she is coming again (maybe August !!??) but I dont want her to if she is going to be that rude to me. Does she not realise that will be MY house too then? Does she think its acceptable to be rude to me?? It was so cliched. And to think I thought she loved me and we were close. I spent hours and hours supporting her, talking to her, when her partner walked out and then her exH died.

Of course, I had to be very careful what I said to him and this is a MINEFIELD!! Grr.

EEEWWWW...she came into your bedroom without being invited and STAYED? Gross!

Sounds like a bit of a reverse Oedepus complex doesn't it? She has some sort of a need to be overly involved in his life, but is it possibly only while he is involved because you take attention away from her? Just a thought that occured to me.

ackkkkk!!! ali that is so weird!!!!! I am so sorry... if that happened to me I would probably want to puke. I'm not sure what to suggest... I noticed that you mentioned passionate marriage to julia on her thread just now. It seems like BF probably has some differentiation issues to deal with, with his mom? As in, standing up to her and "screwing his dick on"? Obviously she doesn't make it easy for him though. Is he still in therapy? maybe you could suggest that you would feel better about dealing her if he was working things out in therapy? MAYBE WITH DAVID SCHNARCK, MY HERO?

I remember a while ago you talked about how you and BF in your last relationship sort of "parented" each other... in that he didn't really have good parents and you had to fill that role (or something like that--I'm sorry if I am getting this wrong). So maybe she feels replaced, like you are taking up the Mom / Number One Woman space? I apologize in advance if I am remembering wrong.

What do you think?

I think the parents of a WAS find it so much easier to place the "blame" for a break up on the other person. I mean really "how could my own child do something so out of character?? It must be Ali's fault. She made him do this." Or something along those lines. Plus she has had him to herself for a while and just doesn't seem ready to let him go. He will need to find a way to "man up" to her.

Yep, walking into the bedroom like that is pretty strange, but also apparent that he has never set that as a boundary before. See above comment.

Hang in there. kat

Hi Mish, T, Kat.. well, he said she DID knock first, but when I asked if she had ever come in his room before, when he used to stay with her, he said.. NO.. never. He agreed it was innappropriate. We went on a long bike ride last night and had a lovely evening, but he did rant about her negativity and lack of interest in others and I listened and validated (!) but had to say I felt she wasnt AS warm to me as she used to be. He really felt she has just got worse in herself (depressed) so not to take it personally. T you are right, we both didnt use to get so much support from our Mums, but thats turned around in the past 2 years. So yes we did use to parent each other in a nurturing sense, but perhaps thats not the case now! Kat, I hadnt thought of that.. she couldnt possibly blame HER darling boy for the breakup hey!?

He told me the 22 year old receptionist moved to his village so he will now be car sharing with her.. I got a bit quiet and he noticed and asked me what was wrong, so I had to tell him that I am generally confident but things can make me have a wobble.. he was amazed I was worried and said he doesnt fancy her at all and besides, there was no need for me to not have confidence, or to worry. But I still do a bit, not surprisingly??

Afterall, he told me before the bomb he wasnt interested in Helen.. but he must have been lying because he left me and then ended up dating her! I believe him that he doesnt fancy this 22 year old, but it highlights the fact I still feel in a vunerable position with him. He still doesnt seem to want to talk about the past.

Ali,

Two things:

One, it is good that he is slowly opening up to you. Keep letting him progress at his pace and you should keep seeing some good results.

Two: About the 22-year-old, there are goods mixed in w/the bads here. It is good that he is openly telling you about her. That is extremely positive as he is not wanting you to think negatively about the car share situation.

However, here is where you are at your cross-road with the redo w/BF. You will (and should) continue to have doubts about him as he was the one who was dishonest and strayed from you.

He will have to prove it to you that he is back and back for good, but human nature will always leave you to question.

How to handle this? I don't know. I would suggest being as honest as you can be w/the situation and how it makes you feel and why. However, you may not be in a place to do that right now.

It continues to make sense why people say adamantly that the piecing phase is in many ways more difficult than the left behind phase.

Hang in there and note the positives.

RTL
PS - The mom in room thing is pretty creepy too.

Hey, Ali,
Just wanted to say hello and I am following along; no advice as I feel out of my depth in piecing, but I am rooting for everything to go well for you! I don't blame you at all for being uncomfortable about the carpooling with the secretary, but I am afraid I have no clue what would be the optimal way for you to handle it with him.

I gotta say, I for one miss you over in MLC; I have been posting copiously lately and only getting a little feedback...! Possibly I have put everyone reading my thread to sleep.

In case I didn't say so before (sorry, it's 5 a.m. here, my brains are slightly scrambled and I can't remember), congratulations on your degree! Hope things are improving for you day by day!

Peace,
Dawn

Hi Ali! Just wanted to check on you and see how you are doing. I suppose no news is good news!

kat

Hey Al,

I hope you've been out enjoying the gorgeous weather. I wish it'd always be like this!

It was good chatting the other night. I totally understand those MIL problems- just the same as mine. Do you think BF will say something to her? I think it'd be important for him to do so if he's ready, both to defend your R (it must have been really hard for you) and for his own manly development.

(((hugs)))

L. xx

(((Ali)))

I understand the MIL issues too. My family in law had no boudaries like that. My MIL used to come into the room shouting(she shouted a lot) first thing in the morning knocking as she came in. I tell you what stopped them dead from ever doing it again was when MIL came in shouting at us and I said 'I'm sorry, I need to get up and put some clothes on' and she didn't do it again lol. It was priceless! It was like a huge 'ohhhhhhh' moment.

I bet Cornwall is just lovely with the warm, gorgeous weather!

Hey kids! Thanks for sticking with me, I cant post so much these days and I have spent lots of hours online looking for a job, a nightmare in this climate, its taken me a MONTH to find one. I finally got a decent job though, to set up an electronic office system for a national charity at their Cornwall division, seems they still do everything by paper at the moment (amazing!! How did they manage that in this day and age?).

Rob, thats a good point, he was never open about Helen, he hid he worked with her. I was honest about having some fears about the 22 year old and he sweetly (and shouldnt have) offered to NOT carshare with her if I preferred, I said of course not! that wasnt the solution, we just need to be open with one another...

Dawn, I do read along, but maybe you should post a shorter summary to ask for advice on certain things that people may be able to help with? I think you are doing great though!!

Hey Kat and Julia and hi Lisa, yes it was lovely chatting with you too! So we had some more convos about the MIL. BF thinks she is fragile.. he wants desperately to talk to her, even about herself (as he says she is alienating people by being so self involved and negative and attention seeking).. so he IS self aware about her and their dynamic too (her being jealous of me and leaning on him too much ect).. BUT, she's his Mum and his Dad has already died.. so I can see its all a bit tricky. Shes a nightmare, but she can be very sweet and of course he loves her, so so far, he keeps AVOIDING confronting her, but does want to at least.

As my BFF said though, is he not aware of HIS boundaries? He is becoming more so and we talked about that, what he can do to make changes to his R with her, to be more adult, as she is unlikely to change.

So last night he was very huggy and kissy with me, wanting lots of attention (!) and I braved a few comments, but he just sighs and pulls this sad face and kisses my face, but.. says NOTHING. Or just that he feels so bad.. I'm soo sorry, but oh I feel so sh*t now..he even put his arm across his forehead!!! So I teased him, well stop feeling so sorry for yourself, stop being such a drama queen, its not all about YOU you know, what about me!?? And he laughed at that and then gave me lots of kisses, but I still didnt get anything sensible out of him, other than he had wished he had been at my birtday and when I said I had missed him and we didnt speak for 3 months, he just said.. well we're together now, we speak all the time now! As though that just makes it all alright. Which I suppose it does, largely.

Theres still so much unsaid, theres an 18 month sized whole in our R, but I see signs of improvement all the time. Like last night, he let slip, very excitedly that he had got me a special present and couldnt wait to give it to me, but it was a surprise.. we then talked about LL (I explained it briefly) and how mine was gift giving and he said, thats mine too !! But I wasnt so sure, I said he was Acts of service and he really liked that and agreed wholeheartedly. But he was totally happy to discuss LL's ! Cool hey?

So.. I still dont quite now how to get him to understand I need more than "I'm sorry".. when he says it now, I calmly state, yes, I know that... Or, do I give up waiting/hoping/expecting and as Cyrena once said, wait another year and he will open up naturally about the past!?

Hi, Ali, you sound like things are getting better, despite some bumpiness! I'm glad for you! I'm afraid I don't have lots of wisdom to impart to you, as you are ahead of me on the path at this point, but I am rooting for everything to go well for you!

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

Dawn, I do read along, but maybe you should post a shorter summary to ask for advice on certain things that people may be able to help with? I think you are doing great though!!

You're right, my posts are ridiculously long sometimes, and I was a little embarrassed when I read this because I just finished posting one of those loooooong entries on my thread. I guess it is because I am no longer journaling privately on paper, as I don't feel the need to do so these days, but apparently there is still some sort of craving to talk about it a lot or I wouldn't have such mega-mongo posts, eh? I will try to shorten things up a bit (okay, "a bit" probably wouldn't do the trick...)!

Good for you for getting another job! I am hearing a lot of suggestions that I should get one myself, and I'm kind of discouraged by the job market before I've even decided to try! So congrats on finding one.

I was reading your post again and something struck me about the MIL sitch, and him having difficulty being an adult and standing up to her (my interpretation of what you said, no offense meant)...maybe this is an example of the LBS (you) having grown a lot during the separation, and the WAS (him) having stayed in the same place, or perhaps even regressed? Did he have this sort of issue with MIL before he went into la-la land? Just a thought...

Peace,
Dawn

Ali,

I know you want answers and more than a 'sorry'. Knowing 'why' it happened in the first place and what went so 'wrong' for your BF that he looked elsewhere for a while, is natural. I know for me it helped so much because it made me feel I could ensure those 'triggers' didn't happen again. If you can approach it with him that way and explain it like that maybe he will open up more.

I mentioned this to you before......it took a whole year before out of the blue I got what felt like a proper 'sorry......what the bloody hell was I thinking of.....I don't know what happened to me' statement.

I also know that resentment would come to the surface in me every now and then and I would want to twist the knife to make my H feel guilty. It's all about how the power/ balance in the R changes. For so long it felt like he had the power over it and now it was in a state of flux. I imagine at some point you will feel that you are the one with the power and then gradually it resolves itself.

As I am sure you are aware, it's not uncommon for the LBS to think at this stage about actually throwing in the towel.....they have won back the prize and now they can show them they aren't worth having. It doesn't sound at all like you feel like that, but it isn't uncommon to feel.

Ali, you need to see that things are moving rapidly for you compared to most on the piecing board. I was lucky and they did for me to BUT it also still took a whole year for a REAL HEARTFELT '[censored] , what did I do?' from my H.

Congrats on the job and the way you are handling things. MIL's are always tricky things.....I just keep the hell away from mine!!!!!

Yes, hurray for the job!! I wish I could tell you more of what to do with your MIL. I used to get along very well with mine until about a year and a half ago we had a ugly fight. She wouldn't talk to me after so I apologized through FIL but either she didn't want to hear it or even never told her. I felt she should apologize too but I guess she isn't big enough to do that. Better off now anyway that they invite his gf to "family" events.

Give it time with BF. Try to address things as they come up so that the resentment doesn't build. Time is what this is going to take.

You are doing so good! Hugs, kat

Congrats on the job!!!!

Glad you guys are being open and he's talking. It will take time, but as you pointed out things are very positive. I'm so happy to hear that.

(((Ali)))

Congrats on the job sweets!!! You are moving fast with him, arent you? Did he move in yet, or did you? (dont recall what you finally decided)...
Trip to Greece still on for Sept?
Love-missed you
K

GREAT NEWS ON THE JOB!!! In this economy any job is better than none.

I'm afraid I have absolutely no advice or insight on anything, but I definitely wish you and BF the very best.

Hey guys, missed you all too! Things are going great, I can answer your posts and also, he has said some more things. Mish, Kat, Michelle, lovely to hear from you! I have told him about you all, he was impressed I think (afterall, the WAS doesnt get support like this and is often in as much of a dark place).

Hey Dawn! No, keep posting and journalling as much and as long as you need to, your thread is for you, all I meant was, maybe add another summary post afterwards to sum up what you need some help on?? I forgot that, the WAS often stands still emotionally! He has had an issue with his mother, but she has got worse. I see him wanting to make changes but not knowing how to go about it, she is very domineering!

Saffie, I guess we are the lucky ones to get back the life we had before with them. I have so many moments, like you did, that resentments or bad memories pop up, but for now, I smile and keep them largely to myself. I am feeling in quite a position of power already, he wants lots of hugs and kisses and is possibly a little insecure right now about how I feel about him, he seems to need lots of reassurance! (as I do hey). I thought of you after we had a conversation the other night, more of that in a minute.

K - Hello mate! Yep.. he said last night "I want to take you back to Stoupa".. I told him I fear its more built up since we went there many years ago, before their were package tours there. But, I am DEFINETLY coming to mainland Greece in September, so we will have to arrange to meet! So his plan is, his housemate is moving out next weekend, then we are cleaning and painting that house whilst its empty and he will stay with me and we will then pack my place up together.. then move in the following weekend, so 2 weeks time!!! It does seem fast, but then, it just seems like we are resuming normal and it would be MORE wierd to not live together. Apart from that first week when he said he wanted to "take it slow".. we have been together every night bar about 2/3 and no question of not being together every night and all weekend now.

So he said to me at the weekend, "I know you want answers, I know you need them and thats right, but I dont have any answers for you. I just felt mad, like I had gone crazy, I wasnt myself." I asked him how come he acted so wierdly, he said I dont know how I can explain it other than it was like I didnt even know who I was... I gave examples, like, he wouldnt give me his address even, he looked perplexed and insisted he had.. I said no you didnt, you moved in in January and didnt tell me until the end of May. It was like he hadnt realised, he said it wasnt concious.. I asked him why when he wouldnt let me go there, or invite me inside.. he looked sad and upset and said eventually.. I just felt insular, shut off, like I wanted space... I pushed it further - How come you invited your BMF to stay, your Mum, your brother, another MF for the weekend, G came round regularly and MFs A and J and C... but not me? Why was I the big bad wolf? He said, you werent, of course not, I cant explain it, I dont know, I just wanted space...

He told me that Christmas was "awful", that it wasnt at all Christmassy and that it felt "unnatural" to be in that situation and without me. I asked him if he got any good presents, he looked sad and said no.. (my intuition was right, whatever she got him must have been nothing he liked/wanted).. he said his brother got him some chocolate. He looked so sad I joked, ahh, I would have got you some great presents and he said "I know you would have, I actually thought that!" I said on the day?? He said yes!

I said I was surprised he had asked me if I had had anyone in my bed and was he was surprised (that I hadnt moved on/given up) he said, it was "very humbling"...I asked him if he had worried that I might, he said, yes, absolutely, he worried about it all the time, he kept thinking.. has she? I said, but thats crazy ! (like why stay away if he was worried I would meet someone !!??) he agreed, but again, couldnt explain. I said, well you didnt ask me if I had! He said he couldnt, he was too embarressed..

Then he said G told him that I was getting relationship help (from this website? Not sure).. he said he was really upset when he heard that, it made him feel terrible. I asked why and he said "Because I really cared about you and so it upset me".. I said that wasnt nice to hear.. that back then he just "cared about me".. he said, "Of course not! I still loved you, in fact, looking back I realise now that I never stopped loving you all along, stupid hey, but then hindisight is a wonderful thing."

We have been ML alot, but he has had some performance problems, which I got him to talk about.. he said its because he just feels so sad and upset at how he has behaved. I reassured him it is just the guilt, that alot of men in his position on this website have exactly the same issues when they come back, so not to feel odd or worried about it.. he was relieved when I told him that. I suggested we only do it in the dark for now instead, so he doesnt have to 'face me', or look me in the eye.. and strangely that worked just fine !!

He said did we really have to take the February date as our anniversary anymore? He had been thinking that we should move it, as it would have been our 10th, so if we move it to a date in the future, we could still have it (how sweet!). I admitted I felt he 'owed me' an anniversary as I thought we would be back together by February. He agreed completely and said he was thinking September.. so I dont know what date we will arrive at.. but seems he has been thinking about it, he then said "I want to take you back to Stoupa".. and a few weeks back he suggested going there in September. I cant help wondering if he plans to ask me to marry him then (his bestest MF asked his gf on their 10th anniversary). He doesnt want to use the recent date when we got back together a a 'new' anniversary. I asked him if he even remembered when it was... (thought, bet not!) and he grinned "oh yes.. 15th May.. Friday night!" I said, wow, how come you remembered?? He said, oh I remember the date clearly, because I was so excited you were coming...

So we still havent made ANY reference to an ow (although we have established I had no OM!) but there is some progress. He still seems hugely upset and is quite clingy with me !!!

Oh my God, I'm gonna cry.

This is amazing!

Hey T! Yep, pretty amazing hey? I just hope it helps anyone reading along.. even if their WAS hasnt the guts/strength to come back and reverse their decision, truth is, some probably do regret leaving and just lost their minds for a year or two or three! Its hard to believe hey, but he's adamant, he just felt 'crazy'. Question is (I forgot to ask!) is he still a bit crazy, or through it and thats behind him now? Hmm, shades of perhaps, but he seems WAY more relaxed and contented. He does still get down and is back on AD's.

Its like we were never apart in some ways, but in others, I still cant stop staring at him in wonder at times, soaking up the sight of him, kissing him alot, to think he didnt even phone me for 4 months! I bought that up to and he just looked uncomfortable (that was the helen era hey).. he also said that he thought I was "sexy and beautiful" and always had done, since the day he met me, that he always thought I was too good for him..I said, well, then if its not a silly question, how come you... if you thought that.. and he said, what? That just becuase I thought you were sexy and beautiful that there could never be anything that could tear us apart?.. I got a bit nervous at that point and so ended that discussion ! He also needs reassurance too and loves it when I say "good morning gorgeous", or tell him how funny/handsome/lovely he is.

Oh Al, your post has brought a lump to my throat. I'm so pleased that BF is opening up and so pleased that he's saying sweet and beautiful things to you.

*sigh* I LOVE it when a plan comes together!!

L. xx

Yay!!!! Sounds like things are moving pretty smoothly!

It also sounds like the communication is pretty good. Always something that can be improved, but definitely good already!

And how funny that he wants to go to Greece in September! It's like he read your mind!

He's been so forthcoming, maybe you could ask him what you want to know about Helen...

I love happy endings.

Not that I want back with my ex, but you certainly make me a bit more hopeful that things will work out in the end. I agree that maybe you should just ask about Helen, that will take the elephant out of the room won't it?

kat

Hey Lisa! I told him about our IMing, he thought that was cool! I havent told him the name of this website (he doesnt seem interested.. if it were me I would have hunted it down and read ALL of his posts by now!!!). But, when he said how come you were on this site too.. and I told him about you and how K's H walked out the same time as him.. he got very upset and hugged me tightly and said he was so sorry. It must be wierd for him, to know there is a load of us woman in the same boat, like it amplifies what he did!

Andabelle, Kat, Lisa, Michelle.. I'm so glad you are happy to hear all of this, I dont post everything, I am concious that I am in a quite blessed position right now. Theres the odd wobble, but when there is, I am VERY good at counting my blessings and just looking at him and remembering, I didnt even know where you lived once and now I can kiss you whenever I want.. and then the sun comes out and I just smile...

I was thinking tonight, I cant go on with NO reference to an ow, its too wierd. I want to ask him about last summer too, all those bike rides, nights out, phonecalls, 12 hour dates with me to then drop me like a stone (haha K!) why did he do that? How could he have done that? Thats when things got really bad for me, so I have to ask him about it. And especially as I want to put it behind us someday!

Michelle, well remembered, it IS like he read my mind, I posted that I just want to go back to Greece with him! I didnt even hint. He just phoned and said he would love to go to Athens too.. and we talked about all the historical places we want to visit. I told him about the great new museum at the Parthenon that M went to and how we would get to meet her and he said he thought we should definetly do that and get it organised

(((((Ali)))))

I told you he had no concept of time while he was "gone". He had no idea what he as doing...

Ali,

I'm so happy for you and you are giving me hope by reading your sitch. Would you be able to take the time and help me our a little? It would be greatly appreciated!

It has been 8 months today that he has been gone, and I don't know how to attach my threads on this message.

Lost41.. I say, follow your intuition. I had some doubters, here and not so much in RL, but I never doubted that we would get back together (only on NYEve, although it may have been hard to believe if you read some of my desperate posts!). I'm sorry I dont have time to read and post right now, I am preparing to get into college and my interview is tommorow, but I am glad it is giving you hope. My bf openly missed me and still cared, BUT, he wouldnt give me his address for months and never let me go to his house the whole time we were apart for 18 months.. and yet now, its like it was all just a bad dream. A VERY bad dream !

Jeff.. you were right, of course you were! You always said the same things consistently and you were right, it was like he 'lost his mind' for a while and was wrapped up in himself and his depression and now he is the other side of that, he cant explain it and hasnt any real concept of time and my suffering I think.

So last night I cried some silent tears in bed with him, its just so poignant sometimes that he is just HERE and its all normal. He pulled me closer and said, whats wrong, I can sense a vibe from you.. I swallowed my tears and managed "I just love you" (only the 2nd time I said it since May).. he laughed almost nervously and said sounding genuinely perplexed/wierded out, "Why is that though? Why do you love me?". The answer to that couldve taken all night and I was trying to hide my tears so I just managed "I just do".. he hugged me and said "I love you too" and we fell asleep like that with me still crying to myself!! Thats a 180.

I still get a little nervous, but he is paying me so many compliments. I felt a little anger today. He is being so loving now, I'm like.. HOW could you not even pick up the phone for 3 months/take another woman away for Christmas/not let me go to your house for 18 months/etc etc etc !!!! I just really need to talk to him. My Mum keeps telling me to WAIT, at least until I am moved back in with him, next week.

We were talking earlier about the move.. I must've sounding unsure as he said "It'll be good"...I said, it will?? He said "Yes! It will be good, I think so anyway!...allay your fears". Easy for him to say!!

Ali,

Thanks for answering me. But I guess our sitch is different, since mine has not contacted me in 2 months. I do want to get back together but I'm at a loss right now, since he obviously doesn't want anything to do with me or our daughter.

We have no phone number for him and he stopped calling her after our hearing on visitation. Maybe I should just give up....just venting....I love him but I can't make him love me or call me. Have NO control over what is going on right now between us....just wish that I did. Not to have control but just to be given the opportunity to speak to him.

(((Ali)))

He's there and talking and comforting you.

At some point it'll be important to finish talking about everything. But it'll take time.

The dreaded P word rears it's head again!

Wow Ali! Things are going so well for you! I think you just need to keep following that keen intuition of yours. You are getting answers, and a lot sooner than many who have reconciled...I know I have read of some where it was a year before the bf/h shared as much as yours has! So I guess I would say not to push for too much too soon but hey if it were me I would have a million questions, too!

Sounds like you are doing so well. Very happy for you.

Helloooo? Anybody home?

At home? Probably wrapped up in bed with BF......reconnecting....connecting....

Ok, mind drifted there for a bit....

Get your head out of the gutter!

Originally Posted By: MichelleLT

Get your head out of the gutter!

But for some of us, it's the only body part allowed to go there!

dawn, you are delightful--you made me cackle

Hey, Ali!

It sounds like things are going well for you and BF. Good for you.

I'm not surprised by your tears, anger and frustration. That seems completely natural. Be sure you don't dismiss it or look to bury it b/c you'll need to work through all of it on your own time when you are ready. You may also be doing this w/out BF's involvement, which is ok too.

Keep going as we're all so happy for you and you do give hope to some of those out there who still have a chance to try and repair their Rs.

RTL

Hello Girls!!! I am here and yes, been pretty busy with bf in that department!! He is ok, sometimes has an issue but its not one that is bad for me, its good in fact, hahaaha. So much has happened.. Rob, I'm having to swallow my feelings still, he is depressed again, he was bad Friday and then better by Saturday night, but very very low on Sunday, because...

WE BUMPED INTO HELEN !!!!!! Nightmare. First time I've seen her.

We were in a bar Saturday night with 2 MFs, we were pretty all over each other generally, MF1 called us "lovebirds" more than once. MF2 left at 11 and MF1 was chatting to a girl, so me and bf were then ALL over each other, basically stood snogging, laughing, talking arms all round each other. She must have been watching us. I guess it was good timing for me, but bad for her to see that, she didnt know he'd be in a new relationship so soon. I dont know if she knew it was me, or someone new.

She marched over..glared at me, tapped him on the shoulder,his face fell about 10 miles.. he took a few steps away and she appraretly said "I just wanted to see it was you", he said yes its me..and then she stormed off. He was very upset by it. GUILT!

She looked ok, nice enough, but nothing special. He said it was definetly over with her and "done and dusted" and we talked alot about it considering he's never mentioned her before, but I have to go so more later.

WHOA! That must have been quite a shock to the system. Getting confronted by the xgf is rough. Hope bf is back out of the doldrums by now.

Wow! That sure took some nerve on her part to come up to you guys like that. Seriously, I don't know anyone that would have the nerve to do that!

Well I guess that has opened the window on Helen and you can ask a few things as he starts to come out of this latest low. I am glad you are both doing well otherwise.

kat

(((((Ali)))))

I think the Helen sighting was good. Now you can talk about the elephant in the room. It's been sitting there bugging you for so long. And once that's done, I think he is going to feel better, too. I imagine that he has been really worried about how you would react when/if you found out about her. This will be your chance to reassure him.

Elephant in the room? What elephant? The elephant is now dead and burried!!! LOL!!! Great scene, just like in the movies. Sorry, I dont feel compassion for your BF (dont tell him that, I will in September)
K

Yikes. Drama! I can understand that throwing him emotionally, it still throws me when I hear from my ex.

Hopefully this will open up some good communications.

Keep up the PMA girl!

OH MAN!

It would be interesting to know what, if anything, he told her about you.

I agree w/Jeff as this is a great hurdle to clear. The specter of Helen has been put into the light of day. You've seen her so you can quit trying to picture her in your mind and you've also seen his reaction to her which should also put you at ease.

RTL

Hello everyone! I've been busy, packing up my house and decorating, I am moving back in with him this week and it all seems to be going well.

Yes, it was a shock to see Helen! I was shaking for half an hour afterwards! I just wish I got a good look at her, but I didnt. He was VERY depressed the next day or two, But my intuition was right.. she DID contact him Monday, at his desk, at 10 am!! He admitted he got an "abusive" phonecall from her, that she was very nasty, calling him names, after asking if it WAS me and if we were back together. She ended the call with a - I dont want anythning more to do with you or to see you ever again (cool, result!), but I havent been nervous or insecure about her anyway, Saturday was the first time they had spoken since they split.

He told me that he ended it by saying he didnt feel the same way about her and that she was very upset. Again, a MF's gf volunteered stuff about Helen, that she was a very odd girl, wierd.. not right for him, you could tell, that she had wanted to discuss her R with this gf after meeting her only once, saying it was very hard for her and not going well as her bf (now mine!) was not over his ex and still had feelings for her.

I asked bf about this and he said he hadnt discussed me with her, but it must have been her intuition as he wasnt over me. He has moaned since the phonecall "she hates me.. you know how I cant stand for people to not like me".. but he realises its understandable, she got hurt. I then told him, that everytime I meet people they tell me stuff about her without me asking and I have NEVER heard a good word said about her.. that her hating you says more about the kind of person she is than that you are a hateful person. He agreed and also that she was not a very enlightened person and that she shouted at him alot!! I said, WTF were you doing, she doesnt sound that nice, he agreed that in hindsight he realised that she wasnt.

I asked him how come it took him so long to come back to me and how come I didnt see him from Aug-Mar bar once, he said there was never any control at all from her, not at all, he just didnt know what he was doing, or who he was even.. and added as a final overriding explanation "You know, I was in hell".. I said, I DID know! I told everyone that and thats how I defended your actions and thats why everyone has been so understanding/forgiving.

He also explained that he is very slow, that it takes him a long time to think and act and "for things to perculate through" he said, you know that.. and indeed I did! He said he is wrong to go around making his mind up and making decisions all by himself "without consulting anyone", that that is wrong and he needs to be more open and honest.

He said she did live at home and was only 28 (so 10 years younger than me!).

So lastly... its extrodinary, but he has said several times, that he basically didnt know who he was. He has also blurted out that me getting ill all the time "ground me down" and that it was hard on him and as he is the way he is, he couldnt cope with it.. and he worries about him being "hard work" now, as he knows what he would be like and how he would feel if he had to spend time with someone who was depressed (it has been VERY hard on me some days). He also said that "you stopped listening to me".

So seems he left me, partly because of his depression/flip out and also, I had been getting ill on and off for 4 years and that I stopped listening to him. I do now! He said I do, too much. I even let him choose the paint colours for the house, I let him make decisions now that I would've been more vocal about years back.

Well now the elephant is out of the room, so to speak. So glad that you both are talking more. I think if I do get remarried, I will try to make a point of every couple of weeks "taking a reading" of how we are. You know use it as a time to address issues and even what one is happy about.

I am so glad things are working out for you both. Happy painting and such!

kat

Sounds like you guys aired a few things out! That's great!!!

(((Ali)))

I'm so happy for you!

Seems like each day is getting more and more accomplished on the road "back."

Good for you, Al. Keep up with whatever it is you are doing b/c it is definitely working.

RTL

Wow, it sounds like you are getting answers and airing things out. I'm so thrilled for you.

How exciting about the new place!

J x

Hey everyone, well we spoke too soon... there is trouble in paradise. The problem he has ML is now a definite one. This is REALLY worrying me (although I told him it shouldnt worry him).. this could make him close off/back off/freaked out/all of the above.. its a big deal for a guy. I'm guessing its guilt as we had the problem from when we saw Helen I think.

On top of that, we had a sort of row last night (only talking but he admitted to being 'frustrated') because I said I was scared of catching swine flu.. this opened a whole can of worms to do with me getting ill before, he said it bought the memories flooding back, that I was overreacting, that it made him fearful, alarm bells rang ...etc etc and I got very upset, but trued to hide it. I agreed it was hard on him back THEN, but that I had been well for over 2 years now and he is ill more often than me and also, I have to cope with his depression day to day (last week he had 2 days off work in bed as he was "tired"). He agreed with all of that, that he is ill way more than me now and that I am stronger now and that things ARE different.

Somewhere in this, he bought up my EA (dear god).. I calmly asked him, perhaps you still have some resentments if you are mentioning that now, 6 years later? He looked puzzled and said, yes perhaps I do, I didnt realise until I just said that then. It was hard on me, I'm a guy... etc

I pointed out that maybe he needed to exercise some more forgiveness, or 'let go' of the EA and me being ill, especially as it was 2-6 years ago and all in the past now, things had moved on and considering that he had left me for 18 months and dated someone else for 8 months since then....

So it kind of degenerated. I tried to agree and validate, but I couldnt help feeling angry and hurt. I did say, I think perhaps you could cut me some slack on the swine flu comments, I was very patient and committed and had to look after myself, I am not sure you would have been so patient for so long... He agreed and said well, no I wasnt was I (he was nearly giving up on us after 4 months seperation in 2004! So I asked him to move back in). He said but I DIDNT go anywhere, I wanted to be with you, as I do now.

He said that he feels bad he hurt her. He said this several times. He said she did shout alot.. well not shout, get frustrated at him because "I probably deserved it, I was being rubbish and she would get frustrated at me". I mentioned that noone has a good word to say about her, he shouldnt blame himself entirely for their R ending, he said "I dont want to hear that, thats not fair"...But he did add that No, it wouldnt have worked out with her anyway and that he realised that pretty early on (by November)..

I remember reading here to NEVER badmouth the OW as they will defend them and he sort of did.

All and all, not going so swimmingly and I am finding things VERY hard right now (right in eclipse season, what a suprise, not! Our whole R has been eclipse led since the day we met).

I think it was a mistake to have the above conversation, but he reacted pretty badly to my being fearful over swine flu. He kept saying he was sorry to have upset me, that HE had overreacted to my comments, but that he couldnt help how he felt. I guess I dont know what to do now, I am feeling pretty stressed by the past few days!

Go back to what works. A fight,argument,disagreement isn't and shouldn't be the end of the world. It is how we get our frustrations and worries out. It is healthy as long as it isn't a habit. You both weren't sure how to approach some feelings because they were tender spots but now it is out there.

Take a deep breath, break the issues down and go from there. You are a smart lady, you can get this back on track.

hugs, kat

Thanks Kat for the vote of confidence ad sticking with me! Whatever happened to you mystery man you asked me about before??

There were lots of other things said. For anyone interested in the mind of a WAS/MLCer/PAer, I will keep postign what he tells me, so here it is!

I asked him about last summer.. he looked puzzled when I said we had stayed over night 4 times. He agreed we were spending lots of time together up until the beginning of August and when I asked him why..
bf: I enjoyed spending time with you, I wanted to see you, but I was still confused and .. I was being needy and rubbish.
Me: Needy? So you were using me then because you were lonely?
bf: No, not using you, no, I wanted to see you, to spend time with you but I was being rubbish and still didnt know what I wanted.
me: Did you still fancy me?
bf: Yes, yes i did
me: but you didnt even kiss me
bf: Well, I was still unsure, so I thought I cant, it wouldnt have been right
me: We were going for bike rides and meals out and spending upto 12 hours a day on the weekends by end of July, then 2 weeks later, you were dating Helen. You had a stark choice, a fork in the road, why did you take that choice?
bf: (long pause) I just wanted our breakup to make sense.... it was something new... different..exciting, I dont know, I wasnt thikn that at the time, but in hindsight, I guess I wanted the breakup to make sense somehow and I thought that I would try that
me: you said before it was her, but I guess it was both of you
bf: yes, we just got closer working together, it happened quite quickly but yes, I guess it was both sides.. it was at a leaving do
me: Were you happy, when you took that fork, for the first few months?
bf: (long pause).. No. I thought I was, or I tried to be happy, or to make it be so that I was and then I soon realised it wasnt and thought, why am I doing this to myself?
me: When did you thnk that? When you saw me in November?
bf:... I dont remember, early on, certainly after I saw you and then was very unmanly and cried loads in the car that night
me: So if you realised then.. how come you stayed in that situation another SIX months??
bf:.. I dont know.. I cant explain.. I'm weak, I'm a coward..I upset people all the time, thats what I do, I go around upsetting people and I dont like to upset people, plus it takes me a long time to work through things..but when I had, then it took me a long time to work up the courage to go through with ending it. But I did because I wanted to be here and thats why I am here now.
me: But it worries me you have several times said that you dont like that she hates you
bf: Well thats just me, my ego, I hate for people to not like me and I hurt her and I feel bad about that, I know I hurt you too, but I feel like I messed up, big time, I made a mistake, I acted badly
me: Maybe you shouldnt have dived in...
bf: I know, I f*cked up, I didnt think it through, it just happened
me:.. or maybe you just shouldnt have stayed in the situation as long as you did
bf: I know, I know and now I hurt her and I feel really bad about that
me: but you said that the R wouldnt have lasted anyway, despite wanting me back?
bf: No, it wouldnt have.
me: so then you shouldnt feel bad for it ending, or take all the responsibility
bf: But you must feel guilty and bad that you hurt your ex, when you ended it?
me: No, I didnt, becuase I felt he deserved it because of the way he had acted toward me
bf: well it wasnt like that then, she didnt deserve it
me: But I havent heard a good word said about her, so maybe she has to take some responsibility for the breakup?
bf: I dont want to hear that, thats not fair
me: but I mean, maybe you shouldnt beat yourself up so much for ending it?
bf: I know what you are saying, I know and you're right, but I cant help feeling bad
me: Did it feel wierd, being with her.. getting on a plane with her..
bf: Yes, it all felt unnatural actually. I feel really uncomfortable talking about this and quite stressed
me: Why?
bf: Because I feel foolish, an idiot, I messed up, I hurt you, I feel like a prat and I hate to look foolish, to look stupid, I cant stand it
me: But I dont think you are an idiot, I think it was in the context of being depressed and not making good decisions
bf: No, you're right, I wasnt making good decision, but thats why I feel an idiot, I f*cked up, I got it wrong, I made a mistake, but I know we should talk about stuff and not sweep it under the carpet, but its just hard...

He then went on to say I hadnt answered questions (I did!) about my EA and he felt I had never really been honest about it..He also said he felt we were back to normal, its like before really again, just like we used to be.. only better and that I shouldnt worry and I should STOP saying sorry.

Interesting, seems not surprising he said he went into the dating Helen thing as it was something new and different and he thought that was perhaps what he ought to try, to make our break up make sense somehow. But that he soon realised he had made a big mistake. The atmosphere is still quite strained between us.

So maybe one of you will just have to do something silly to break the ice and make the tension go away.

As for me and my flirt guy, nothing much has happened. I think I told you I saw him in april. I was wanting to get rid of relationships that were weighing me down and I knew that there was something I needed to clear up with him. We talked for an hour(he was working, he winked at me twice and gave me a hug and tight squeeze. Took that as good but didn't really know why. We have e-mailed a bit but then I thought maybe if I backed off a bit he would maybe move towards me some.

That didn't appear to happen. Anway, several years ago when I was trying to get his attention, I tossed pennies at him. I have mentioned it in a few conversations over the past year. So a couple of weeks ago I sent him a bottle full of pennies with a note. The note said, "I have been trying really hard to not think about you...apparently I haven't succeeded. Hope this at least makes you smile." He sent me an e-mail thanking me and say yes it made him smile but was hard to explain to girl friend.

A bit crushing but I try to look at the positives: He is ready to date again, he opened it in front of her without having a clue what it was, so I don't think they are serious, perhaps just a date and the last came to me a few days ago..whenever he sees it, he will think of me and hopefully make him happy. He is such a Libra. I know that he doesn't see me as a fling but someone that if he got involved with, it would be something. That will take a commiment of sorts, I just don't think he is there yet. Running 4 or 5 papers takes alot and he still has his 2 kids and their activities(they are both really into sports) to consider.

I am still hopeful maybe when I shouldn't be. Everytime I try to push thoughts of him away, they come back with a vengenance. I just know I am supposed to be with him at some point. I just don't know how to explain how I know.

Sorry for the long post, but you did ask!

any thoughts would be appreciated.

kat

Ali,

I'm sorry to hear that there's trouble in paradise. I'm with Kat on this one, go back to what works!

Here are some things that came to mind when I was reading, JMO:

- You might want to think about re-reading passionate marriage and thinking about bf's ML problem in that context...

- If you get into another one of these arguments/discussions, it's totally OK for you to stop and say, "hey, I need to take a walk to clear my head" and just stop before it devolves anymore. Don't keep going once it starts to devolve. Don't keep pressing for the resolution you want. It's not going to happen when you guys are already upset.

- Some of your questions in the above discussion made me think that BF is confessing so much to you so quickly, that it doesn't seem productive for you to push for more answers.

- I would avoid making statements like "maybe you shouldn't have dived in" or "maybe you shouldn't have stayed in the situation as long as you did." As long as you're spelling it out for him like that, he can struggle with you instead of struggling with himself. And he needs to struggle with these things himself. He needs to come to these conclusions himself and you trying to facilitate it will only slow things down.

Just a couple thoughts...

love!~
T

Thankyou girls, thankyou.. I am struggling and you rally have helped, I am on my way over to him now.

T, I simplified the discussion and I know you are right, I shouldnt spell things out, but I guess I was a bit angry at him!! Amazing, but I just thought.. jeez, cut me some slack, I went trhough hell and its still not easy being with you and yes, you DID f*ck up!! We both had had a few drinks too.. never a good idea!!! I said, lets not talk now, and he said, no, lets do it now.. so next time, I will be more firm and say lets leave it there? I have to run, but I am sure I will post more tommorow, I have a feeling we will have more air to clear this weekend!

Thanks again, T and Kat. x

Have a wonderful evening Ali!

sweet A, you are welcome
((((A)))))
megahugs to ye!!!
I'm glad that you found what I wrote helpful.

I think the reason I noticed that you might want to think about walking away from the convo is that it's something I'm having to learn myself. When I talk to my friends about my decisions about my future, career, location, etc sometimes I really keep trying to explain it to them even when the vibe is disconnected. This past weekend I actually had the self-awareness to not continue an unproductive conversation along these lines and I was really proud of myself. Trust me, it will feel good when you do it too!!!!

And it's a DB classic technique... strike when the iron is cold

also ... from seven lessons from making marriage work by john gottman... same idea.

I think that you guys will need to grapple with this stuff, but trying to do so when you're tired or tipsy or pissy or whatever, unless you're in the presence an amazing therapist, I wouldn't recommend it.

try to have some low-key fun together to build up a cushion for good times.

love!
T

((((Al)))) (and hello Lovely!)

Sorry things are a bit difficult at the moment, Al. I agree with T's advice on walking away and the other comments about not maybe 'maybe you could/should have....' statements to BF. I think he'll come to those realisations in his own time and your suggesting things to him just gives him the opportunity to not look into himself for answers....

I would definitely not worry about swine flu for now- the strain isn't that virulent and the media is definitely blowing things out of proportion. A pandemic is just an infection that is present across the world- the term doesn't mean a disease is very dangerous although the media seems to have interpreted it, and is presenting it as such. The common cold could be called a pandemic, as could AIDS, gonorrhea, tuberculosis and lots of other illnesses (because they are commonly accepted to be present though they are usually referred to as endemic). This is bringing out my inner science geek so I'll stop there, but there's really no reason to worry....

Hope you have a great weekend planned,

L. xx

Hey sweet Ali!

I was thinking about what I wrote last time and I realized that Schnarck discusses it really well in passionate marriage. specifically page 349 (last bullet point) and the self-soothing strategies on p. 350 and also the "promote yourself" bullet point on p. 352.

basically it boils down to, "you break contact with your partner for brief periods of self-soothing, focusing on other interests to replenish yourself, and then renew your efforts to regain connection with your partner".

I was also thinking about how you wrote that BF brought up the topic. I can TOTALLY understand wanting to talk about that stuff if he brought it up. But I still think the operative words here are: proceed with caution. Even if he brings it up, you can still excuse yourself and take a break when things start to devolve.

And you've used this strategy before, in the very beginning! when you started to feel overwhelmed you excused yourself and went to the bathroom. this is the same thing, just that you can take breaks for longer periods of time.

I hope you're having a great weekend!
LOVE
T

Swine flu is far less deadly than the "normal" flu. The media is just making a fuss about it. Don't worry about it!

Love T's references. Good stuff!

(((Ali)))

Ali,

Sorry for the hiccup, but the advice from the ladies is very sound.

Don't try to solve everything in one setting - the books are very clear on this front. Instead, stop it, accept what gains have been made, and move on to another subject (knowing you may have to physically leave in order to "stop" the current conversation).

This is another example as to why the reconciliation stage is so difficult. You are naturally excited to be where you are w/another shot at things and naturally you'd like to clean it up as soon as you can and get moving forward.

Just don't try to "build all of Rome in one day."

I know that advice "sucks" and isn't what we'd all like to hear, but patience and baby steps are what's needed now. BF has come back, but he's full of guilt and is still depressed. He needs time to work his way out of his hole...and you need time for yourself too.

He's inching along while you'd like to see him sprinting. It is the old "walk before run" thing, so give him his little chunks of progress. The entire wall will eventually come down if you keep taking little pieces out of it.

As for your EA, do whatever you can to answer his questions and reassure him of your committment to him. It is obvious it still bothers him, so make sure you continue to be up-front (as you have been) when he brings it up.

It is easy to get frustrated w/his repeated discussings of the whole EA, but it takes real love to allow him to ask and for you to continue to calmly and openly answer his questions...even if you've answered them over and over again.

In books on affairs, they say that the one who "cheated" will have to live w/the insecurities of the one who was "cheated on" for a long, long while and possibly be faced w/the occasional insecurity for the rest of your time together. He's showing his insecurity over your EA now, so steel yourself to "prove" your commitment to him.

Now, he'll have his own dance w/the "insecurity Devil" soon enough over his issue w/Helen, but that will come in time. I'm not sure he can handle his own insecurities about your EA and his actions w/Helen at the same time. You are the better judge of that, so keep watching for signs that it is ok or not ok to bring up Helen and him.

Just my 0.02 for now. Hang in there, Princess.

RTL

You know how to find me right? I think nothing you describe is odd, I think all these were to be expected and IMO you are doing a great job handling everything.
You will be fine and I will give 2 speeches in the end

K

Hello everyone, thank you SOO much.. I wanted to post back to you all, but I was so busy catching up with others, I ran out of time. I get no time to myself these days, haha!

In the meantime, till I can post some more.. thanks so much for your suggestions, I really took them on borad. Like tonight, I felt down, so I kind of hid it and stepped away after a few words and was bright and jolly and said I had stuff to do, left him to have an evening in and now I am refreshed and heading back.

We had a big drama on Saturday.. I found lots of photos of Helen, well, maybe a dozen.. but in different events.. Bonfire night (that was hard, I stayed in, missed him so much it nearly killed me and he was down the road at a do with her).. the Tall Ships (ditto, I ended up going by myself, sensing he was nearby. I felt SO alone that day, he was there with her).. a night out at dinner.. her dressed up, he said she texted him that one for some reason, I said, you mustve thought she looked nice..

On and on, it was awful, seriously. I thought of DBing and planned to put the ipod down and not tell him (he had deleted everything off the PC/camera, but downloiaded it to the ipod, I didnt ask why).. but this involuntary scream/sob came out of me! So he bounded downstairs ina panic.. whats wrong, whats wrong !!??? So I told him...

He was VERY reassuring, sorry, just mortified basically. He hasnt stopped huggijng and kissing me since. We had alot of talks about her then and he says he wasnt happy, but thought he was for a short time. It was probably a good thing I found them as he told me I am 'better' than her in every way and that he loves me so much and that it nearly killed him to be apart from me.

he said some more general stuff anbout his state of mind too, as a WAS, I will psot some more, but I have to go for now!! Miss you all guys. Piecing is very very very hard. But there are lots of lovely bits, believe me, adn thanks for stickign with me!
Al xxx

(((Ali)))

Good stuff! It's so good that he's talking to you!

Just remember to take it slow and let him open up, build that trust and connection up.

Keep on taking those baby steps forward!

Ali, I know this has been a crazy couple of weeks for you. Just break it down as much as you can and deal with it bit by bit. I am sure that it is so easy to get overwhelmed and also try to get all of your answers at once, but slow down. There isn't a rush. Take it as you can handle it.

I am really proud of how far you have come. kat

Good job in stepping away a bit. It helped to refocus you and calm you down. Well done. Keep remembering that tactic and you'll be able to get through this in due time.

RTL

(((((Ali)))))

There are going to be bumps in the road. I think that before it is all said and done you will both have to fight through resentments you are carrying for things that happened in the past. And I think it will be better to get them out than to maintain a room in the house for the elephants.

Good job, Ali!!! I'm so proud of you for stepping away and taking a break to refresh yourself. It worked!!!!

I think it is important that we can choose how much to disclose and when. It is a lesson I am constantly relearning!

Take it slow, keep taking breaks to refresh yourself!

LOVE
T

Well said, Jeff!

RTL

It still worries me that he blames you for getting sick-- what happens when you get sick again, which you inevitably will if you guys end up staying together until you're old and farty? Don't get me wrong-- you're doing a great job and things are looking good-- i'm just saying you will need reassurance from him on this point sometime after you're further along in the piecing process.

hey Al,

Bleugh on finding the photos- remember when I found a apicture of the aubergine last year and I was horrified? It must have been a million times worse finding all those ones on BF's camera. Ick.

I'm so glad he's making an effort with you, and talking to you. It's such a good sign and so good that he's reassuring you about how much he loves you. It makes me feel all nice inside!

Hope you're having a good weekend,

L. xx

Just stopping by to say hello Al, hope you aren't drowing in this rain! Where is our summer??

Ali and BF must be having way too much fun and don't have the time to stop by.

Hi Ali, hope you are having a wonderful time.

kat

Cheers to that!

Hey everyone,
I've been moving house for 3 weeks..in now though! So I couldnt get online until today and I started a new job last week! A pretty decent one as it goes, thank goodness. Also, my BFF has been here for 2 weeks.. so its been madly hectic. I felt guilty for not being here reading along!

Tonnes has happened, lots of conversations (I have grilled him in fact, I have been at that stage of wanting to know everything). I discovered that ow didnt like this house so was rarely here. That she lived at home and didnt spend alot of time with him, but quite a bit. That she was 'cross' at him as time went on and shouted at him (as he said, probably because she could tell he wasnt that into her and not over his ex and that was her way of handling her fristration). He was aware it was our anniversary on the day and was upset but doenst remember/know why he never replied to my email taht day. That he didnt enjoy valentines or make it special, they did go out for a drink and ended up having "a massive row" when they got home about nothing. He had already decided it was over with her, but was incapable of doing it at that point.

That she loved him, but he never loved her. That they mainly watched TV but went out a bit, never cooked together nice meals..as she couldnt cook. That he never stopped thinking about me or stopped loving me.

As a WAS, that he doesnt remember the times he didnt reply to texts/emails for days/a week (so that wasnt deliberate) he was just in a mess and in a R and felt terribly guilty ad confused. That he said he "was in hell"... that last spring, he would laugh one minute and cry the next, 3 times even at his desk at work and people saw. That he HAS NO IDEA why he decided to ditch me and date her last summer.. he says he cannot explain, it was a moment of madness, a bad decision, a mistake, a nightmare "Like a bad dream" that he wishes he could erase. He said THEIR R nice feels like a distant memory, whereas our R, prebomb feels wierdly more recent.

He said he cannot explain or give answers.. he doesnt know what he was thinking or feeling last summer, except (when I pressd him to explain).. that he was like a compass, that instead of pointing N, it was spinning around and around (classic, heard that description somewhere else, in the books maybe?) that he didnt know who he was even. He said he never stopped loving me but only realised this with hindsight. He says he is content now and happy and loves me and he would never ever in a million years make a crazy decision like that again, that he has learnt his lesson, that he learnt "a million things" when we were apart.

I said I feel lucky to have won him back. He says HE is the lucky one, I could have said "F you" and sailed off with someone else, that he worried I would all the time, but was incapable of doing anything about it for months. He says he worries taht I will now leave him and that I am too good for him, that I have goodness oozing out of every pore, that I am amazing, beautiful etc etc...

Its so wierd, its like a dream. I am getting used to it now and it feels more equal. I have quizzed him and gone over alot of the hurt and questions as to why he did stuff (largely, he cant explain). I found LOTS of photos... all boring, except ONE of them together in the first month.. smiling, hugging on the coast path at MY FAVOURITE BEACH, GRR! THats the only one I havent told him I found yet.. she had printed it off for him, its in a box by the bed. I found 2 pics of her smiling, tousled, in bed..on the 5th, the eclipse, same day as Maria (?).. but he was upset about it, he thought he had deleted all the pics, and sadly those 2 remained on his PC!!! His BMF G told me how upset he was. I found boxes of condoms and just calmly asked him to bin them, he was very upset to have upset me, but I was nice about it! Ditto the photos, said he didnt have to delete them by any means, if he didnt want to, just get them off our PC.

He worries about me all the time now and is very loving. My mobile died and I was MIA for 3 hours on Saturday afternoon.. he called the hospitals !!!! Insane. I said.. but you didnt even see me for FOUR months last year and now all this???? He cant explain, its like.. he's just 'back', back from the brink, the depression, the WAS syndrome, the MLC, who knows.. he seems fine, relieved, in love and like its all now receeding into just bad memories. He hugs and kisses me all day long.

I feel so grateful and glad and still a little wierded out, but then, ours was a dramatic classic case of someone flipping out and ditching the love of their life for no good reason during a severe depression, so maybe its not so surprising we are ok again. But that we are sooo ok and so quickly is wierd!

Sorry for the download, I just wanted to get it off my chest! I feel odd posting seeing as everything is just so normal and fine. But then I wanted you all to know, it really is like some brain fart, or madness, or like they get possessed and they are not themselves.. thats certainly the message I am getting.

I thnk you all so much for all your help here, I really couldnt have done it without you!! Wow, I was so lonely back then and this board was a lifeline, full of friends.
Love and happiness, Al xxx

Wow! Hi, there. I needed an uplift today and I stumbled into your thread.

I hope I am there someday.

Cheers,

Dia

Sounds like great things are happening for you Ali! That's wonderful and I'm so happy for you.

Take care!

Glad you are all moved and settled in!

Sounds like you guys have been having some good communication!

Sounds great in fact!

So glad you can count yourself a success story!

Ali,

I am so happy for you that things are going well. Communication is very important in Piecing and you are handling it so well. Keep it up!

Congratulations, Ali! I am really proud of you, and so glad to hear all the news.

love!!!
T

I love reading your updates! It makes me smile

Hey Al,

Woohoo!! I'm dancing a jig for you!

I went to dinner at CEOs house on Saturday- a stranger (not CEO) kissed my feet. Not as exciting as your update but it was certainly different

Take care and keep posting- it's really great to hear how you're doing.

L. xx

Ali,

Things are going very well for you right now. Keep doing what you are doing and they'll continue to move and grow.

I'm glad you have this opportunity to "re-do" your R w/BF. We're all very happy for you, Princess.

RTL

WOW. Good stuff!

Ali,
Glad to see you back! It's nice to come here and read some positives after all the misery on this board.

Peace,
Dawn

Hey everyone!! T, Lisa, Andabelle, Rob, Mish, Michelle, Dawn, Julia, Dia, Addie (where you been!?) thanks for your kind words and for following me.

Its wierd being in this position. I feel like I have this giant metaphorical foam hand pointing at me, like I am one of the few here, I know. Why me? Its very very wierd. But I always knew we would get back together. He said, he knew too deep down and that noone really believed he had moved on either!

We have his oldest BMF and W staying with us. She was the key person that kept my hope alive. They are our bestest couple friends and it cements our R to have them stay with us again, first time since just before the bomb. We are having a bottle of champagne and going for a meal with them tonight, bf's idea, an unspoken celebration. He always was a lovely man, but he is surpassing himself lately!

Yesterday I had to drive him to collect something from Helens office! Its near to mine and his (I work for the same organisation as her now again, but I doubt our paths will cross). I was curious in case we did see her, but he said it hadnt even crossed his mind! So I think he has let go of her now.

I quizzed him about staying friends with her, would he prefer to? He said only as he cant bear to be hated and she hates him, but no, he doesnt want to be friends with her because he wants to draw a line under it and relegate it to the past and because it wouldnt be right and because of respect for me. Lastly, he did finally admit they had nothing in common in the end, apart from work! So, I am also lucky to have NO ongoing ow problems or fear of their R reigniting.

He said a funny thing. He said he knew it was over when she upset him by referring to The Smiths as "the smith-ees"! He was being a little flippant, but there was some truth in that, they werent suited. I did good DBing by keeping those connections between us, musically. Poor Helen, she didnt stand a chance!

BMF W talked to me again last night about the time her H snogged her BFF. 5 years ago, just a snog, but a big betrayal. It is still bothering her and is an issue in their M. I said she should work on her forgiveness of exBFF and H. It made me realise just what I have done and had to cope with. Her H of 10 years never left her and it was just a snog (and then some texts/emails).. my bf of 10 years DID leave me, wouldnt tell me where he lived, was gone 18 months and dated someone else for 8 months and I have let it go, more than she has and forgiven him completely. It made me realise what a huge deal it is and how far we have come already in just 3 months. She said my bf is the lucky one, to have another chance, that I took him back.

I think (reading Kalnis posts too) that when the penny drops with these men.. its like OMG, what did I do?! And then the remorse and just wanting to never have anything to do with the ow ever again. Its like they get blindsided and possessed and are NOT themselves. Our problems started May 2006 too, so it was 3 YEARS in all and he is only now coming out the other side of it and feeling happy once again.

Yes, Ali, you are one of the really lucky ones as far as the relationship goes. But I count myself as lucky too. It has been three years of He77 for me but I have come out the other side so much better!

I hope that you are celebrating "you". That you keep doing the work now and for all of it from before. All of that struggling got you both to a point where you could come together again. I am so happy for you both!!

hugs, kat

Hey Kat, nice to see you ! I am glad you are doing ok too.

I agree with you, this has been a journey for me as well as rekindling my R and I have definetly changed!! Everyone has noticed, bf too of course. I have learnt so much and I hope, changed for the better. I wouldnt want to go back to the person I was before and I am much happier, freer, braver and less neurotic now. I thanked him for that. I was carrying alot of stuff from age 17/18 and its finally laid to rest, thanks to him leaving me and having to face myself. So yes, the changes stuck, as I actually changed.

But, in terms of this forum, I feel lucky that I am piecing and I dont take it for granted, whether that has anything to do with DBing, I am not so sure. Looking at the numbers of people who posted to me, I reckon the odds on getting the R back is about 1 in 20, 5% at best. That may well be the average law of nature anyway, dbing or not dbing, for those that still love their ex's, if you see what I mean. So I think my ex may have come back, no matter what I did really, although the changes I made perhaps helped the process.

So, you've made me think.. I am going to ask him that question!! It would be interesting to see how much of the db techniques he picked up on and how it affected his decision.. I will report back !

xx

Ali,

It would be interesting to know what he says that he noticed and caused him to really want to come back.

If I was a betting man, I'd say that your showing him you can and will live w/out him and that you have your own life outside of him was the main reason.

RTL

Dia - Glad that my thread helped a little. I havent checked your thread, but good luck.
Mish - Thanks for your kind words, how are you doing? I must find your thread later now I have more time, I have spent the last month moving house and starting two new jobs, ridiculous!
Michelle.. yes, who'd have thought it hey? I guess we nearly got back together last summer, then there was Helen and luckily for me, she wasnt that great a gf! Or as BF said.. she wasnt you.
Addie - Its tricky, I have this urge to talk talk talk.. but he can only handle little bits now and then, so I have to bite my tongue, or just trust that the conversations will happen, or sometimes, the moment passes and it didnt need to be said afterall...
Julia, T, Lisa...girls, thankyou for your kind words, your smiles and jigs!! Where would I have been last September, when I found out about Helen and you were all there for me?? Ditto Andabelle, Kat and Dawn!

Rob.. thanks for keeping up with me, I dont know if you still have a thread? I guess you have a gf now, good for you! I'm not surprised, good looking hunk like you

I am curious as to what DB techniques he picked up on, I havent had a chance to ask him yet.. but I really want to (without being too obvious about it!). Who knows, probably he didnt notice at all! Although, he did say he could see I had changed.

I asked him if he felt G and Cher had helped us, to get back together? Initially he said he didnt think so (thought it was inevitable) but when I said I did and how they kept us both informed and passed on valuable info and got us out on nights out.. he changed his mind and said he realised G had helped alot in fact, as G told him I was still single, talked about him alot and my GAL. I always said that the wider circle of friends were quite key in my sitch in keeping connections between us, my hope alive and him informed of my GAL, which got him interested and worried about me meeting someone else!

Hey, Ali!

Yes, I still have a thread over in surviving the big D. Here it is: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...107#Post1819107

I am seeing someone now and it is going good thus far (only 4 months in) but I'm liking it. Well see, but it is nice to have someone who is honest and open as well as someone who likes me for me.

As for your BF, I think it is amazing that he was so miserable in his R w/Helen and I too think it is great that he wants absolutely nothing to do w/her. I've never been in shoes like his, but from what you posted on Kalni's thread along w/what you've told us here, he seemed to be fortunate to pull himself out before it got too late to do so.

As for holding your tongue -- good job doing it and KEEP IT UP! Your answers WILL come. Your intuition is very correct on this one, so trust it and keep waiting for BF to open up to you...he's been doing this already, so keep it up.

I'd like to know what he'll say, but I think it will be your life w/out him for sure, but I also really feel it will deal something w/your confidence (or at least how you seemed confident w/him not around).

I think that is the real key behind DBing as you are correct, there are many of us who won't get that 2nd chance. However, if they told us that, we wouldn't be buying the books and honestly, that book is one of the best things that has happened to me.

The DB book didn't help me save my marriage. I thought it would and could, but didn't. Instead it gave me something much, much greater. It gave me confidence in myself and allowed me to work to create a healthier and happier me.

So, I think that while many of us won't be able to get to the level you have w/BF and while I do think you are one of the fortunate among us, we all instead will continue to benefit from the same exact thing - growth, change, and a renewed feeling of self, self-worth, and a complete understanding that not only can we survive a painful D, but we will survive and thrive as well.

I'm starting to figure out that confidence is indeed very sexy and very attractive.

RTL

Very well said RTL!

Ali,
I am a lurker who has recently come "out of the shadows" on this board. I have been following your situation closely since December 2008 and want to tell you how very happy I am for you and BF to have reunited! Your blog has consistently provided interesting discussions of various topics and given much food for thought. Thank you VERY, VERY much to everyone who has contributed to these conversations, and especially to you, Ali, for hosting these discussions!

Your descriptions of your BF remind me a lot of my H, so I have begun reading your entire thread from the very beginning to glean new perspectives on the dynamics of relationships with WASs. I am very curious about what BF says were the primary factors that led him back to you and look forward to the insights that you can provide when the time is right to broach this topic with BF. Thank you so much for sharing!

Al? Any news?

Hey Rob, so glad to hear you are happy!! And yes, I did question him. Hey GAG.. a lurker, well, I am glad its been of some use, god knows we all need it here hey, at least I did then very very much!!

Hi K.. how are you? So.. we had a big talk tonight, 1-2 hours. I asked him directly, did anything I do affect your decision to come back, or was it that you just had to come around to that place within yourself and decide... he thought about it for a while and said, no, it was just in me really, I arrived at that place on my own, but I never stopped thinking about you, or loving you, looking back. Everything seems to be about him (even the convo, seeing as he was frowning and stressed and said he is 'riddled' with guilt). So tonight, I had to go to his old flat complex, as part of my new job to inspect land nearby.. I told him when I got in that I felt a bit sad there. He said nothing. Later, after we talked, he said he could tell it had bought up stuff for me, but he was tired, just got in from work, felt dreadfully guilty and so, selfishly, decided not to say anything because it makes HIM feel bad. So he allowed me to talk and ask questions later on, as I needed to.

He says he really doesnt remember his thought processes for much of the past 18 monhths, that he felt crazy, spinning around, that looking back he cant believe how he acted, or why, he cant fathom it, it feels alien to him, who he is, that he would behave that way, that he wasnt making good decisions for himself or anyone. THat he feels embarressed and foolish and soooo guilty for what he put me through and for no reason.

I said it was for a reason, he wasnt well and it was something he needed to do. He agreed and said, he thinks looking back he had some sort of breakdown (which is what I always thought, I told him).

I asked him why didnt he phone from August? He said he wanted to and thouht about me all the time, but guilt always stopped him. I asked, did he do that thing where he dialed even and then put the phone down.. he said yes, he did, a few times! He looked amazed at himself and upset at the memory and said he really wanted to talk to me. I said, why didnt you call then? He said, because of guilt. I was paralysed with guilt, I felt awful and I didnt know what to say, what could I say, eventhough I was worried about you and missed you. I said, but even when I was being so accepting and friendly on emails? He said yes, you were I know, but I dont know why not, I just felt so bad and guilty that stupidly and selfishly, I just didnt call you just because I was thinking of myself..He never stopped thinking about me/loving me, even in the early days of their R and said he realises now how stupid and insane it was that he was even putting effort in to making it work. But that it was never natural and he cant understand why he perpetuated it for so long, but then, he was mainly fighting the fact he hates to upset people, cant bear it. It wasnt until March/April that he stopped feeling so crazy and really started to organise his thoughts and begin to really make proper decisions and realised it wasnt fair to ANYONE what he was doing.

He says he remembers getting emails from me and liking it, but he never told her about them. She did ask if we were in contact and he just said "we had been". I asked him if he felt he had been honest with her, he said looking back, no, not at all as he tried not to talk to her about me. He also said that she asked about selling the houses and he said not now, because of the market but in reality, he never wanted to sell them.. because they were "our houses" and he had no intentions of.

About emails from him, that he doesnt remember NOT asking questions in them when he was first with her. When he did later on, no, it wasnt so that I then had to reply to him, it was purely because he was curious and wanted to know about my life and started pulling himself out of the hole he was in and wanting to know about my life and see me. I said he wasnt before that, for a time he didnt ask questions, again, he said it was just guilt, but he doesnt remember and it wasnt deliberate, or premeditated. Ditto the not replying sometimes, it wasnt deliberate and he doesnt remember. He has no clue why he wouldnt give me his address or let me come to his flat all that time, it upsets him to think about it as he behaved in such an odd and out of character way.

He said that in terms of GAL, he did notice and think that I seemed more outgoing, but on the whole he sees me now as he did then, that I am just being me, being myself. Seems it didnt affect his decision to come back, but I guess it didnt make him NOT want me back either and what it definetly did do he said, was make him worry I would find someone else. He worried all teh time, especially with my BMF, he figured he was sniffing around me and worried when I told him how much time we spent together. Wierd that he worried all the time.. I asked him, did you think I might go out with someone else, or even hope that I would, when you started seeing someone? He said no, he didnt want me to get a bf, ridiculous hey, but he didnt want me to even after he started seeing Helen and never stopped worrying that I would. But he said, what could I do? It had happened, I didnt go looking for it and I didnt know how to change it, undo it and what to say.. so he just said/did nothing.

He says he feels 'grateful' and lucky I took him back and that I am brilliant, so glad I got that out of him ! But that he doesnt feel insecure as I have done a good job of reassureing him. Lastly, I asked him why he got so stressed about these convos, he said because he understands I want to talk about stuff to lay it to rest and thats fair enough and only right, but from his perspective he just wants to lay it to rest by never thinking about it ever again. He says he just wants to forget the whole 2 years and put it behind him and never talk of it again. He cant believe how he behaved and cant identify with the person he was then, that he cant get his mind into his mind as it was then. So, all in all.. he has alot of healing to do it seems and he says he is still, massively guilt ridden for what he put me through and cant bear to hear how bad it was for me.

I dont know if this helps anyone.. but message seems to be from him anyway, they lose their minds, we may analyse texts/emails etc, but seems its not deliberate/premeditated and if you are just being yourself, the person they fell in love with, they MAY come back around, but its really down to them if they do.

Wishing anyone reading, sweet dreams and peace of mind,
Al xxx

Originally Posted By: ali

they lose their minds, we may analyse texts/emails etc, but seems its not deliberate/premeditated and if you are just being yourself, the person they fell in love with, they MAY come back around, but its really down to them if they do.

That is good to know. I think it helps to hear that to know it's not personal.

I imagine if you hadn't been DBing, he wouldn't have liked your e-mails so much though! LMAO.

Ali,

He told you exactly what we all thought: He noticed you went on living w/out him and it scared him to death.

That is what we're supposed to do w/DBing...live for ourselves and if the other one comes back and wants to join in, then great!

He doesn't know how much you masked things and he really doesn't need to know either. You showed him what he was missing...YOU! He got the message, but I agree w/Michelle that he wouldn't have if you wouldn't have been DBing all along.

Good for you, Princess!

RTL

Good job, Ali! It's so nice to see some people on the boards who actually get what we all want! Hope you are very happy and working out the little glitches. Please do continue to post insights as you get them; they are very helpful. Enjoy!!

Peace,
Dawn

((((((Ali))))))

Don't underestimate how much influence your behavio(u)r had on his actions. There were a lot of "I don't knows" and such in his explanation. All along he saw a safe haven to return to, even if he didn't realize it. He saw a strong, capable woman. He saw that the grass wasn't greener. He's not going to remember individual events, or things you said. But there were feelings that you allowed to grow.

DBing is a tricky thing. I don't think it's a sequence of events, of actions. It's an attitude, and a way of life. It's impossible to say what would have happened if you had not been DBing, but I'm guessing the outcome would not have been as positive for either of you.

Ali,

Thank you VERY much for sharing your convo with BF!!! It is enlightening and much appreciated! It helps me to feel less critical of H (going through a period in which my frustration and anger has been bubbling up after 11 months of "sainthood").

Everyone's commentaries are also enlightening and appreciated as well. Thank you all.

Thanks for sharing Ali. Very interesting to see a bit into the mind of a WAH/WABF.

The following sentance confirms what I thought.

but from his perspective he just wants to lay it to rest by never thinking about it ever again.

And we wonder why the WAS wants to maybe date after D.

Ali, I totally agree guilt drives them. Do you think their pride & society (what society expects) does as well?

Bravo - to your BF for being able to swallow his pride & his guilt in the name of love! That is a real man & not a boy in a man's body.

Cheers to you!!

Hey everyone! Sorry my last post was actually pretty dashed off and I didnt have time to comment too much. Although he knows full well about my "support group" on the internet, he hasnt, as far as I know gone looking for it or read my posts, so I dont advertise to him that I am posting, its still private, for me.

So, I agree with you Michelle, Rob, Jeff.. I didnt explain well, but I meant, DBing was a big factor..you dont get angry/vengeful/mean/move on and date if you are DBing! You are gentle and accepting and show continued interest in them, but that ulitmately, you cant 'do' anything as such, he said so himself, although all sitches are different I guess. DBing teaches you to find yourself, GAL, be more confident, outgoing, patient, accepting etc and yes, all of those things do that vital thing "make the path home smooth" as it says.. makes them see you once again as the person they knew you to be, the person they fell in love with and hey, we all to some extent get complacent and focus on kids/work and less on ourselves or our partners, s the years go by. So I agree, DBing is a way to make it easier to come back, if thats what they want in their heart. Its the second bit I suppose that we cant control hey!

I feel that in alot of cases, it isnt personal. They do go on a journey. I think the fact we all are here is because we share in common the kind of person as spouse who has issues, or is unable to express themselves, so they blow, or snap and go.. and then they process, or go through a big depression/breakdown, as my bf did.

And yes GoodAG, I had compassion for my bf as I could see what a state he was in and then its hard to take it personally (but its also hard to be on the receiving end of such harsh reality as someone walking out!). And MrsM, hi, nice to see you back.. I was pretty stunned when he said that, that he just wantes to never think about it ever again, neverlone talk about it! Last night, I sort of mentioned something and he straight away said "stop asking me questions!" almost half joking, half weary, so I shutup. I think that will have to be it for now on the questions front!

We are very together, every day/night, lots of hugs and affection still.. BUT.. we are now not ML at all. He cant, he actually sort of refuses. He says he loves me, we're living together again, he wants to be with me, he's not going anyway, but his sex drive has gone and he doenst know why. He says he is 'tired' and doesnt feel s*xy. I asked if it was to do with helen and he looked pained and said "dont.. No, it isnt" I asked if it was guilt, he said no, he doesnt know why it is, but it will return, he is sure it will and for me to please, please, not worry. That he does find me attractive, absolutely and wants to ML, he just cant.

This is of course very hard for me and he's not really explaining and I cant help feeling worried and rejected, we've only been back together 3 months, but I will trust that its a phase and I know from here, pretty normal I think in Piecing! He seems to be in a bit of a grief phase for who he was and what he has done and he is still on ADs, so I'm not going to push it and he is very very reassuring and loving, as I am with him.

So, I hope my posts have helped some people a little. He really cant stress enough how guilt stopped him contacting me, saying things, seeing me and now, seems he feels guilt towards OW and to me. And yes MrsM, he says he feels sooo embarressed and foolish, what must people think of him, friends, family, mine particularly. He said he cant bear to look an idiot or to mess up and he did, bigtime and that pride and what people thought of him were a BIG factor in just flailing around not knowing how to reverse his decisions (leaving me and then dating ow and introducing her to friends and family as his gf). He said it took him months to get his head around it and it was only because he couldnt stop thinking about me that he said he knew it wasnt fair on anyone and he had to do something. He said that if it wasnt for thinking about me all the time, it would have carried on for longer with her, EVENTHOUGH he said they had little in common, bar work, that she was not on his wavelength, not funny, not fun to be around, shouted at him and that she became annoying toward the end... and I said, so how come you would have stayed with her then??? He said, because, I am weak and once you are in something, its easier to just bimble along, oh, so I'm doing this now then.. than make the big decision and to really really upset someone and hurt them.. I cant stand to upset people, I cant stand it, I'm a people pleaser and I hate for people to not like me...

So, a combination of what people think, basic character, weakness and perhaps laziness.. contributes to these WAS staying with nightmare OW in some cases it seems.

Thanks for the additional insight! Much appreciated.

On the ML...that could totally be the ADs. It is one of the major side effects of almost all ADs. Of course, he needs to be on them right now. But yes, it should be temporary, and should get a little better as he gets used to the meds again. Don't take it personally sweetie.

Ali,

Haven't posted to you before, but your comment about your BF not wanting to talk about it ever really spoke to me.

My W doesn't either. Every time I bring the A up, she says "I'm trying to move on and all you do is bring it up".

So I guess my question to you is, how do you (or we) go about getting what we need to heal from what's happened when part of that healing (at least for me) is to KNOW what about the last 2 years of my life was real and what wasn't? It's almost like an episode of The Twilight Zone, you wake up one day and everything you knew to be true for the last few years is suddenly in question.

How do we get from them what we need when they claim to need to never talk about it? Or is never talking about it just easier for them and they're still pretty selfish because they are more concerned how this crap has made them feel than helping us heal from their betrayal?

I'd be interested in how you feel about it and how you plan on handling it in the future.

Ali and all,

I respect and value your opinions about these questions that have been asked. Hope4us' question really resonates with many I think. I am not as far along this path as many of you, but I am at the point of questioning whether IF my WAS one day chooses to reconcile, how will I know that he won't have some kind of meltdown again in the future? I asked Jody (DB coach) this question and she said that in the future we would need to avoid the triggers that activated this situation. She and I haven't had the chance yet to have a complete discussion about this yet, but I keep wondering how can we (LBS's) know what all the triggers might be? .....or how many triggers need to be activated for them to leave again? In your experience on the board, do walkaways show a willingness to have these conversations?

.....and how can avoiding triggers compensate for the emptiness some of our walkaway partners feel because of abandonment they experienced as children?

Interested in any thoughts you might have on this. Thanks.

GAG

Hey, Ali,
When I read about the sex issue, I too immediately thought of ADs. I remember that when my doctor first prescribed them for me, she said that in her experience the side effect of sexual issues is MUCH more common than the published statistics, and I can tell you for sure it was true with me.

When I started on the ADs, even though H and I had a normal intimate R at the time, the satisfaction level for me went wayyyyyy down, due strictly to the meds and not to any failure on the part of my H. I was basically reduced to one fully satisfying encounter per year for the initial three years I was on ADs! It was totally frustrating for both of us, and I kept switching meds to try to find something that worked without that side effect. Is anyone surprised that I was so eager to get off of the ADs? It was a major catch-22 for me, because if I was on the ADs, it hurt the sexual R, and if I was off the ADs, I was a lot harder for H to deal with all around because of the untreated depression...so no matter what choice I made, it was hard on my M.

I finally got off the ADs, with my doctor's okay, and I did all right for a while (the sex was much better, though!), but then started sliding down into major depression again. I was trying to find non-drug ways to deal with it, but the depression made it hard to actually follow through with those possibilities (which is the same sort of thing I am dealing with now). I resisted going back on the AD's, in large part because of what I just explained, and so that's why I was off of them when the bomb hit 2 years ago.

I was back on the ADs within 2 days of the bomb, but it took over 2 months to get the kinks worked out (we tried a new AD and it didn't work at all, so had to take even longer to switch), so it was 10 weeks of intense suffering for me after the bomb before the ADs even started to kick in (not counting the month before the bomb when I had strongly suspected what was going on, but didn't have confirmation yet). The AD I was on most recently (which I quit because I have no money and no health insurance) was the first one that seemed to have only a minimal effect on my sexual response, but by that time it was too late...H has not indicated any interest in me of that type since the bomb.

I have just told this long-winded story to explain how ADs can and do affect sexual stuff. In the case of ADs in men, obviously they have more of an effect on whether sex happens at all. Your BF needs to see his doctor about this; they are coming out with new ADs all the time, and there's no way to tell how they will affect an individual other than trial and error, so keep trying. It took me 7 different meds to find something that seemed to work without too many side effects, which might seem discouraging, but just remember, I did eventually find something. And there are plenty of non-drug possibilities too; it's just that those are usually more work than popping a pill, so it's harder to get those started if you're already depressed...so ideally you would start on those before you quit the ADs.

Hope that helps!

Peace,
Dawn

Al,
I just saw the ML issue. Sorry mate, I know how that hurts. For me it was a major issue.But granted the rest in your R seems to be OK, I would be patient. How about talking to his doc about it?
K

Or have you checked out Michele's books on the subject - she covers it extensively. There might be some thing in there you could try?

I am also wondering if BF would be willing to see a doctor about it?

Or, you could just grind up a Viagra and slip it into his beer...he'd have no choice but to act at that point, right?

Just kidding, but the doctor visit would possibly provide some insight for the two of you.

RTL

Rob you are just too funny...ground up viagra! LOL I just wanted to stop and check in on you. I had a unique experience the other day which I commented about on my thread if you care to check it out:divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1822723#Post1822723.

I hope that works but if not I am over in Infidelity for now. Hope you are having an awesome day!

kat

Ali,

Here is another consideration.......There is actually an emerging body of peer-reviewed medical literature that talks about reduced testosterone as a contributor for male mid-life depression and reduced sex drive along with other symptoms. There is an article about it here (www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=M...00013281eac____). This phenomenon has been referred to as male menopause or andropause. Since this is not a widely accepted phenomenon yet the average physician wouldn't screen for it and would probably be skeptical......but hey, until about 15 years ago the medical community thought that the adult brain couldn't create any new brain cells. We now know that the adult brain is definitely capable of creating new brain cells!!!!

GAG (resident nerd)

Hi guys, Michelle, Dawn, Kalni, Julia, GAG, thankyou for your commisserations and suggestions!! My WAS has given me more answers, more of that later and I will try and answer your questions, Hope4Us and GoodAGirl. I read all your ideas, but I was away for 5 days so couldnt post.

Well I talked to him again and suggested it could be the ADs but he said he is just tired and a bit stressed (his ezcema is very bad) but he doesnt know why and its NOT to do with me though. That I shouldnt worry as he knows it will come back and that anyway, putting pressure on him by worrying (he feels like he is letting me down) makes it worse. I dont think I can get him to discuss it with his Doc, he is picking up more ADs today and I bet he doesnt mention it.

Rob.. no need for Viagra, mechanically he works fine! GAG, yes, he did say he feels he has a reduced s*x drive, or that its gone. Seems to be a mental problem, not wanting to, just wants to "snuggle". SO.. I then read an article in a Cosmo like magazine whilst waiting for an appointment, about men not wanting to ML and you wanting to.. it suggested (as perhaps DB book does Julia?) to mix it up and make more effort to get the man initiated and to really try and help them get past the mental blockage, IF its not a medical issue.. so I took him to a fancy lingerie shop on the pretence of needing more new underwear (good god, my drawer is bursting from all this DB clothing!!!!).. I showed him the styles I preferred but got him to choose what he wanted and said I had no time to try on...

Well, the try on at home worked, in about... oh, 4 seconds!!?? I cant do that every week, but its a start.

We had a convo about underwear when we got back together. I was always of the feminist opinion it should purely be for comfort and men had no right to comment/expect their preference, but I see now that that is not what a healthy, loving R is all about. I prefer it when he dresses nice and shaves etc, its more of the same. So to choose nice underwear (not sl*tty!) is a big 180 for me, massive and he knows it and is very very appreciative. I can see he feels more loved and also, that his needs are getting met, and lack of that is the biggie with why men leave in teh first place apparently.

Quote:

Well, the try on at home worked, in about... oh, 4 seconds!!?? I cant do that every week, but its a start.

Love it Al, brilliant. Well done!

I had bought some nice lingerie over the years. I tended to wear it on "special" occasions. I always preferred t-shirts to sleep in. After the divorce, I started wearing some of it for me. I feel good when I wear it, besides I want to be in the habit for the next serious relationship I have!

You did great. kat

Last time I bought nice lingerie... Ohh well, forget it!

Al, I have missed you!
Good job

M

Good job with the undies Ali! Wish I had thought of that....*sigh*...that's neither here nor there.

Keep up what you are doing. There is a lot to be said for wanting to snuggle. That is an intimacy that a lot of men aren't comfortable with and most women would kill for. Soak it up!

How is the new job going? What exactly are you doing now?

Hope4Us.. I agree, the healing comes partly from knowing what happened. Also though, as normal life resumes, it does become less important and fades and almost seems (to me) as though it never happened. But then.. something will remind me and I feel a resentment surfacing so I ask questions, only when I really need to and we never talk for more than an hour, then we move on and change the subject and I am normal, laugh, hug him and be loving and upbeat as though the talk never happened.. the DB book says to handle it this way. I understand his reluctance to talk and your W's, I did after my EA/miniPA years ago. Its the guilt. But for me also (and I think my bf as he said he was worried about what I would think).. I had this FEAR that now the penny had dropped and I chose bf over OM.. that if I said too much, I would end up losing him.. that I would end up losing them both, but the most valuable thing, my bf. So it took me a LONG time for the whole truth to come out, a year maybe, until I felt secure that he wouldnt leave me. I answered stuff as we went along, but only to a point and my bf is now doing the same. But I wouldnt talk about it for the first few months at all, after the OM left, I needed that grieving time. Try and be patient with her. I also dont see it in anyway as selfish. If she didnt love you or care, she would tell you, and in all the gory technicolour details!

Hi GAG, in answer to your question (I have had this discussion with my family as they worried at first).. I consider my bf now, a BETTER bet than some random new guy. He's a known quantity, I know all his issues. I also know he truly loves me and chose to come back, for life. I lived with my exex for 3 years, I later realised he had cheated on me in the first week, despite saying he loved me at that time. There are no gaurantees, so I actually feel more secure and sure of my bf than I would have felt, after what I have been through, with a stranger I happened to fall for. Also, my bf is not a womaniser and in the past 13 years, I have never seen his eyes stray to a pretty woman, when in my presence, so that reassures me.

Originally Posted By: goodattitudegirl

I am at the point of questioning whether IF my WAS one day chooses to reconcile, how will I know that he won't have some kind of meltdown again in the future? I asked Jody (DB coach) this question and she said that in the future we would need to avoid the triggers that activated this situation...how can we (LBS's) know what all the triggers might be? .....or how many triggers need to be activated for them to leave again? In your experience on the board, do walkaways show a willingness to have these conversations?

.....and how can avoiding triggers compensate for the emptiness some of our walkaway partners feel because of abandonment they experienced as children?

I asked him this, he says it will never happen again, that he made a terrible, insane decision (to leave and then another, to date nightmare ow) and from that 2 years, he has learnt "a million things".. one of which being that he made a terrible mistake, it was crazy and he didnt think it through what he was doing and what was really best for him/me, but just let things happen to him. He said he wont ever repeat that mistake.

I dont think there were triggers as such.. I think it was a type of MLC if you will, so a culmination point of years of low self esteem and being a people pleaser and silently seething at not being "listened to" and also a consequence of his longterm depression, in his case.. he understands now that we create our own reality. If you are unhappy with something, but act like you are fine, you are not being honest and true to yourself and you cant expect others to read your mind! But it wasnt ALL him, we have touched on the fact I had stopped listening to him, or respecting his decisions at least and he didnt handle that well - instead of telling me, he "gave up" (again thats his depression he says now) and saw things in a very negative way and he says now it was insane, but he felt I didnt love him! I was amazed when he said that. Perhaps he didnt feel needed? I was very capable and strong. So in terms of those triggers, I am careful to let him make decisions now, I am gentler and actively listen, as they call it. If that helps!

Ali,

Nicely done on the underwear thing. It does seem as if you'll have to come on to him more often until he's fully over his "mental block."

Glad to know the plumbing works fine.

RTL

Hey girls, Rob.. bit too information maybe!? But hey, I've always been honest here!

M, I miss you too... always here! Mish, I am now an Officer for open spaces and beaches for cornwall ! Its ace, I get handrails put in for old folks, sand removed from roads, playparks mended and inspect beaches, so I am out and about alot. I did a similiar job over 10 years ago, so I blagged it from that, I've had alot of different careers!

You need a helper? I need to talk to you about something...

Love the underwear!!!

Sounds like that was the right thing to do. I'm not sure you can convince him to talk to his doctor, and you're right that putting pressure on him is probably only making the mental block, as you called it, stronger.

Love the new job! Sounds fun as well as a real chance to make a difference around Cornwall.

Really cool!

RTL

That sounds like such an interesting and fulfilling job. Getting things done there must be much easier than here. There is a massive pothole in my street that practically swallows small cars (and small children) but I've called public works numerous times and they keep passing it on to the next department and the next......what a PITA!

hey everyone.. it is a good job! But its the same here Mish, takes forever to get anyone to do anything and you get passed around different departments for like a year or more.. but I am taking action and sorting things in like an hour !!! I hate inefficiency. I'm suppsoed to be starting as a trainee FE teacher in a month, I accepted, but now I dont know if I should resign or not!?? Some things never change !

So things are great, I'm very lucky, he is 100% back, so... why am I so down? I actually feel pretty down when I wake up most mornings lately. I told him today I was. Last night I washed sheets, loaded and unloaded the dishwasher, twice, shopped, cooked, hung out washing, made the beds up.. he normally does more housework than me but he was mowing the grass, mending the shed, etc... I joked we were like a 1950's postcard. It all just felt so .. domesticated. I told him all of this, that I was worried we were already losing the excitement, fun and romance. He said.. but this is what I like, its what I want, I know you want fireworks, but its called contentment, what we have is amazing, its real, its solid...

I cant complain at that can I? I guess its hard that he doesnt want to ML normally (apart from a couple of times the past month), especially as I found 4 or 5 boxes of condoms in his cabinet when I first moved back in.. its like, wow, were they having so MUCH s*x that they never wanted to run out of damn condoms!?? Or maybe there were so many (some unopened) because he went off sex with her too. I want to ask him these questions. Maybe I will later ! (bad idea huh). I know he went off it with her, as he told BMF and then dumped her anyway. Its not just that though.. maybe its resentments surfacing, maybe its just the anticlimax after the initial euphoria of reconciling, maybe its because noone phones me anymore (or him) now we are back together!! And BFF has reacted badly to me reconciling and has stopped calling me too sadly..

I think a lot of what you are experiencing is called life. If you want sparks and sizzle you will have to toss those in on occasion to keep things hopping.

Why don't you invite your friends over or go out with them? Maybe they are thinking you just want time alone. And as for the job front, going from no job to a couple??Wow. when it rains it pours. I am happy for you.

kat

Quote:

And BFF has reacted badly to me reconciling and has stopped calling me too sadly..

What? WTH is that about? Why would she do that? Your BFF should be supportive of you no matter what your decisions are unless it is directly detrimental to your health (mental or physical).

It sounds like it probably is just the letdown from the initial excitement of being back together. You had to have felt like it was an entirely new R instead of the same old same old at first. Now, you've settled back into a contented R doing the normal mundane things that you always have. There still needs to be excitement, but it's now going to be the kind that you create willingly, not that is created from an emotional high only. KWIM?

It's possible that when you go further down the rabbit hole with BF that there will be unbelievable sexual fireworks... like they talk about in passionate marriage. But he will need to deal with whatever is making him uninterested in sex right now as part of starting that new journey together with you. Is he still in therapy? I can't remember... If I was in your position, I would fly with BF to colorado and meet with Mr. Schnarck!! (who is coming out with a new updated passionate marriage any moment now!!!)

New underwear is exciting!! I'm a big fan of Mary Green boyshorts... they are superhot without being uncomfortable.

congratulations on the new job! It sounds fun!!!!
love,
T

Ali,

One thing that would concern me as well is BF's "contentment" w/the situation, b/c I learned from experience that you have to keep the spark alive and never forget to keep dating each other throughout your R.

I like T's idea of making sure he's in counseling to work on his issues w/not wanting to be intimate w/you physically as good sex is also critical to a lasting relationship.

RTL

Al,
I would phone you if I knew I wouldnt interrupt!!!

When you want to feel better, think of all the nights you stayed up late and crying about him, think of how it feels to be alone and lonely, of not having that special someone by yourside.

Happinness is...moments. Happinness is appreciating what you have when you have it, not when it is lost. Trust me on this. Passion and excitement dont show up with actions, actions bring back passion and excitement. We are made to believe that things should just happen, but it is not true. We make things happen.
Love
K

Kat - Thanks for being happy for me! Must check out your thread btw. We did see alot of old friends this weekend, was like old times and they looked amazed at how "normal" we are, like we had never been apart!!

Mish - You are so right, it DID feel like a brand new R, a new bf, so wierd, I remember posting in the early weeks about us "telling our stories" to each other, as though we had just met (we knew them all in fact!).. now the opposite is true, its like the S never happened. So wierd. As for BFF, she called me last night! First time since June. She joked she had finally phoned the house.. so I think, like his Mum (who is only just warming to me again) they took 3 months to get used to 'losing us' after being used to phoning me, and his Mum him, every single night that we were apart.

Hey T..where you been !? I have to say, thats the frustrating thing, we dont have any issues in this area and already had fireworks but our s*x life was transformed really from being more honest and glad to be back together, I'm talking NYE grade fireworks!! Plus, I did read PM and I have remembered the couples stories and have been using that approach with him, but I wont make him read it himself. Its just infrequent!!

T, Rob...he stopped C because he thought it wasnt helping, the lady was just "well meaning". I got free MC with my job, with Relate and at first he agreed to go, but then he said he didnt feel that we needed it, as we were able to talk to each other as things cropped up and he felt things were going fine?

K.. call anytime, you wont disturb us ! You are right thanks for reminding me.. so last night.. I created a moment! and that worked fine and then its no longer a big deal and maybe the gaps in between dont matter for now, because yes, just to lie alongside him and wake up there is a joy in itself and I am grateful. xx

So.. I asked him about the BOMB. He DOESNT REMEMBER what he said. He was amazed when I told him. We had been out with our old friends, BMF1 and BFF and it reminded me of the bomb, this is what was said..

me: so do you remember what you said the night you ended it about them?
bf: no, I dont remember. What did I say?
me: You said.. I love Paul(BMF1), I love Mark, I love Chantal(BFF), but I dont love you.
bf: (wincing).. I didnt say that??
me: You did, those were your exact words, it rattled around my head for months. Dont you remember?
bf: I'm soo sorry, thats a terrible thing to say. No, I dont remember, why would I say such a thing??
me: I kept asking you, what do you mean you dont love me anymore, so you were trying to explain.
bf: Well thats a ridiculous thing to say. I cant believe I said that. Ridiculous.
me: Yes I thought it was too and my jaw was hanging open in shock, Mark in particular hadnt even called you for a year! You think it was ridiculous?
bf: Clearly it was, its a stupid thing to have said.
me: Why did you say it then?
bf: I must have meant it at the time. But I dont remember, I was mixed up, confused, but it wasnt true.
me: You also said it was over, for good, you were 100% sure..
bf: (wrily) huh, well I was wrong about that too! I'm so sorry, I was mixed up, confused, I dont remember the conversations we had, I dont know what I was thinking. I wasnt in my right mind.
me: Do you remember the last time we went to the B bar?
bf: Yes, we saw a band?
me: Right, just before we split up, you were very distant and offish with me
bf: (insistent) I wasnt!
me: You were, you were disdainful toward me and it was so awful
bf: I wasnt, I dont remember? God, I'm so sorry, its all a blur...

I just wanted to post this to anyone reeling from the shock of the bomb, so real and terrible to me, but seems it was part of his crisis, he didnt mean what he said and doesnt remember what he said. However, he does remember my reaction, that I ended up lying on the floor holding his ankles, making primevial howling noises.. he said he felt terrible at the memory and it had haunted him for ages.

That just shows that they aren't in the right state of mind. He is telling you so much, maybe time to just set with all of it for a while rather than press further. Cherish all the moments you have now.

kat

(((((Ali)))) (these are hugs, right???)

Thank you SOOOOOOO much for this post (and give BF a great BIG kiss for sharing! --- you don't have to tell him that's what it is for

). I have read this post over again and again. I think I am going to have it laminated.

I've been missing male companionship and have been struggling with whether or not to call a man who gave me his phone number a couple weeks ago. Frustrated with H because the 1 year anniversary of the bomb and 3 year wedding anniversary is approaching in 2 1/2 weeks and divorce is due to be final in 2 1/2 months....but I think that the universe is telling me to continue DB'ing. I received a number of 'signs' over the last 2 days to continue, with your conversation with BF among them. (Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

he says it will never happen again, that he made a terrible, insane decision (to leave and then another, to date nightmare ow) and from that 2 years, he has learnt "a million things"

I guess that since we have all been working so hard to figure out 'what went wrong' I've been guilty of thinking that our walk-aways just had their heads 'stuck in the sand'...but your BF and other walk-aways say that they DO learn while on their own, so it appears that it can happen.

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

a culmination point of years of low self esteem and being a people pleaser and silently seething at not being "listened to"

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

If you are unhappy with something, but act like you are fine, you are not being honest and true to yourself and you cant expect others to read your mind!

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

I had stopped listening to him, or respecting his decisions at least and he didnt handle that well - instead of telling me, he "gave up" (again thats his depression he says now) and saw things in a very negative way and he says now it was insane, but he felt I didn't love him!

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

So in terms of those triggers, I am careful to let him make decisions now, I am gentler and actively listen, as they call it. If that helps!

All of the quotes above really resonated with my situation, so thank you VERY much for sharing that information to all of us.

GAG

Hey kat.. its soooo hard not to ask stuff sometimes, but I do bite my tongue more times than not. The convo we had was literally as I typed above and then I changed the subject, so maybe a minute out a week?

GAG - I really wanted to post stuff to help, even if it is just one person at least, because I really dont know what I would have done without this board and DBing and being able to post every night to people around the world that made me smile and laugh, often. I wanted to try and give some answers, although I know all sitches are different. Still, I think there are common threads and principles amongst us. Interesting you say it really resonated?

Last night he added more.. he said he was "mental" at that time. I said, do you really think that? He said yes, he felt mental and he isnt anymore, that it was for quite a while and the way he behaved and decisions he took were "madness". I am also no longer wearing makeup or smart clothes all the time and got back into my yoga pants some nights.. I was very worried about this and said I felt worried, but he insisted last night I no longer need to worry like taht, that its my home and I am just relaxing at home and thats normal and how it shuold be and anyway, I always look lovely.. in fact its "wearing" that I keep worrying when I really dont have to, he wants me to be reassured.

Its so hard to be ok, when I think back, I never ever thought he would leave me and I trusted him 100%. Now I look at him and I wonder if I ever really would feel that secure again, or perhaps just not yet hey.

I don't think it is a bad thing to be on your toes. It is when we get complacent that trouble starts. There's a fine balance to find imo.

Edit: On the other hand, I do agree with Kalni... enjoy

Al, please enjoy the life you have. I know its hard to deal with the scar, I am sure it will fade as time passes by...

Bring back some joy and happiness in your life. No talks, no worries, some pure fun (sexual or plain)... Read the love bank theory, remember the 5LL, BULD on what you have, dont just sit there and wish things were as they were. NO matter what he says, something wasnt perfect back then. You had enough time analysing things, make wiser choices...
Love
M

Hey girls! its wierd, it feels like a scar, but already I forget often that he went out with someone else for 8 months in the middle of our longterm R!! Wierd huh. I think its just I post here the "db" stuff, or bad stuff, but you are right and we are having lots of fun...I make time for him, we are together every day and we have gotton into this habit of waking up very early every day and having tea and toast in bed, a cuddle and chat, Millie the cat gets in bed with us.. we get up later and later, rush home to see each other, listen to music, then I make sure to surprise him with interesting new things, like last night I booked badminton for us and the night before swimming, or nights out with friends and we cook yummy meals for each other.

Its these things that make me so grateful and is a 180 on the life we led before. I NEVER woke up with him (which upset him). I had no interest in sport. I stopped arranging nights out. Our lives are better for the bomb and S and we are happier and so for that, I am glad he left me..I just wish he hadnt dated her..

Talking of wise choices K.. we need to find a place to holiday in Greece!! We both want to combine the holiday with a visit to Athens, partly to meet you (yay!) and partly as its one the greatest cities in the world we both want to visit and have never been to. He was thinking Stoupa, but I think maybe Tollo.. or maybe one of the islands off Athens.. what do you think? We must talk !

Stoupa is where H went to that villa with the jaccuzi and had a romantic getaway...

We need to talk yes. Not Tolo!!!! Bliax!! Maybe Hydra, close to Athens and wonderful!!! Or Spetses... Fly to AThens and take a one hour ferry to these places... Google it!!
K

Ali, I am so excited to read your most recent post. "What you focus on expands", right? I love about your changes of waking up together and playing badminton. I love how they are 180s but totally organic and authentic to you now. So of course things will come up and still be unsettled, but focus on what is working for both of you--so joyfully--and Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy!!!
LOVE
T

Ali, I agree with transformer and really appreciate you sharing examples of the changes that you have made to build a stronger relationship foundation with BF.

Originally Posted By: transformer

I love how they are 180s but totally organic and authentic to you now.

Your examples give me concrete ideas of activities that would have meant a lot to my H (one of my H's LLs is quality time).

My H grew up with an alcoholic mother and a father who used his work as an excuse to avoid the chaos at home. My H was essentially abandoned by both his parents. I now realize that he has been grieving this his entire life. Everyone sees him as a confident, successful, outgoing, gregarious guy who would do anything for his friends. My sister and I never guessed the sad, shamed 'boy' that was inside him. Your comments about BF's thought processes ("silently seething at not being listened to", "instead of telling me, he "gave up".....(and) felt I didn't love him") have given me valuable insights into my H's thought processes. I thank you and BF VERY much for your gift of understanding!!!

Over the last week I have spent a lot of time listening to Dr. Daniel Amen's CDs about his brain imaging findings. In a previous career I did medical research, so his work is very interesting to me and seems legitimate. I'd like to share a few points with you that gave me insight (and compassion) for my H and might do the same for you with BF:

An area of the brain called the cingulate gyrus (CG) is often overactive in children who grew up in alcoholic households. The CG is the brain's "gear-shifter". It allows for flexibility and cooperation. People with overactive CGs appear selfish on the outside, but they are really just inflexible. They tend to worry, hold grudges, and they get stuck in certain mental thoughts. For example, you may have made one negative comment in the context of many positive comments, but the person with an overactive CG tends to focus on the one negative comment and in their mind, they heard you say it 1000 times. At the moment that they are responding to this criticism, they are feeling a level of hurt that is disproportionate to the criticism. They are out of control. Could this be what BF is referring to when he says he was 'mental'?

Overactivity in the CG is associated with a deficit in serotonin. ADs increase levels of serotonin but there are other natural ways to increase serotonin as well, and these are things you could incorporate into your routine. Dr. Amen talks about these on his CDs. For example, high carbohydrate foods (e.g. pasta) and exercise increase serotonin.

I'm writing this to you because you or someone reading along might find some of this helpful in preventing triggers from breaking down communication in the future. Hope there is a nugget you might be able to use in this.

GAG

Ali,

Two things catch my eye, princess:

One, the scar will always be w/you and although I pray that you'll be able to feel 100% confident w/BF in the future, the fact that he should always need to "prove" himself to you is his pennance for straying. I'm not saying you'll never be completely at ease, but you'll have your moments and in those moments, it is BF's job to go out of his way to reassure you of his love and committment.

That I see as natural and human.

Two: be careful w/BF's quick dismissal of going to therapy. I realize I'm a huge proponent of it, but I also know that none of us are experts in that field, so in my opinion, you'd be very wise to always keep tht door ajar in case you need to explore it either as individuals or a couple in the future.

RTL

Hey, thought I would let you know, I have a consult with Priya Tuesday night. Any suggestions?

kat

I posted more on my thread. Thanks for stopping by. I think it was really good for me to hear confirmations for the things I have heard and felt.

kat

K.. ok, so its Athens for 2 days, then ferry to Paros (or Tinos??) for a few days, onto Naxos as a base, day trips to Antiparos, Delos (and Mykonos, or not so good there??), Santorini for a few days and lastly..relax on Koufinissi (need to find accomodation there!) and back to Athens before flying home. Cant wait

Hey T.. do you still have a thread? Thanks for your post and the reminder "what you focus on expands".. its so wierd, its like it all never happened now, except I am altered and so the changes are real, I could never go back to the person I used to be. He said to me last night, we will never go back to how it used to be.

Hey Rob, you are right, he says himself alot, its his job to reassure me! And I wish he would go back to C...

Hey kat.. I would like to do a reading with Priya! I will look at your thread..

GAG.. I am so glad that my post helped and thanks for yours! My bf was emotionally abandoned too.. his Mum was depressed for 10 years until she started an A with his Dads BMF when he was 8 and his Dad then went into a silent depression for the rest of his life really (the A was not confronted, his Dad would just leave the house when the OM came round to visit his W!!!!). He was taught by his repressed, loveless parents to suppress emotions. I agree when you say "Everyone sees him as a confident, successful, outgoing, gregarious guy who would do anything for his friends. My sister and I never guessed the sad, shamed 'boy' that was inside him." - I didnt at first, but something dramatic happened at the 6 year mark which made me see his shame with clarity and that was as a result of MY EA.. so we have really been on a journey together this past 10+ years and I do feel ernomous compassion for him. And his Mum has a lot to answer for !!

I'd leave Tinos out, Paros,Delos, Antiparos, Naxos, Santorini, AND Mykonos and Koufonissia are perfect.

Get some autumn clothes with you because it maybe windy. Let me know the exact days you are coming, I am cooking dinner for you and your darling one (vegetarians?) and you can babysit while I go out party afterwards...

K

Ok, thanks!! So Tinos is a no, so just need to book flights now and find somewhere to stay on Koufonisi (it looks AMAZING!). We will fly in sometime Saturday 12th and probably leave Athens by ferry on Monday, I cant wait!! I am veggie (but I eat chicken and fish

) but bf LOVES lamb (not me I am afraid) and we are happy to babysit for you, but I think we should first share a bottle of wine and laugh and set the world to rights (and check out your jewellery and paintings too!). Seriously, I cant wait, I'm so excited...
xx

I am so excited for you!! Whoopie! Make sure you take lots of pictures to post. I think you will be having a lovely time. Just a little over a week away.

kat

Sounds like an absolutely wonderful trip Al! Add extra hugs to K when you get there from me, ok?

Dearest A,

I'm glad to help

I don't have a thread right now. I'm so jealous for your trip!!!! Have so much fun, in real life!!!!

LOVE,
T

Yay!!!!!! That sounds like a great trip!

So excited you get to meet K!!!!

Gilrs.. thankyou, I am excited too. Its a BIG deal us going back to Greece. Its both our favourite place to go and the last romantic holiday we had was there (to Kalni's hometown in fact! We flew into Kalamata).

I had some more convo's with him about Helen. I finally admitted I checked his phone Sept 2007 and found calls to her, he said he wasnt interested in her then, but she had called him to ask how his broken wrist was and he texted her a bit, as a friend. He insists thats all. I guess I have to let it go. We talked twice recently, only for 1/2 hour now...I was home at the weekend, I was planning to see the Piscean (to tell him to his face I was back with my ex now).. I drove to his workshop, it was closed. I drove to his house and walked around the back to just go in and did this instinctively, eventhough I have only been there in fact twice I think in 12 years. Maybe 3. I just knew it would be fine though to turn up like that, no matter how many years go by it would always be fine. I didnt post here, but before I got back with bf, the Piscean phoned me a few times and said he would wait 35 years for me, if necessary... Anyway, he wasnt in and I sat outside and felt strangely tearful.

I've only ever really loved 2 men. The Piscean was my first love and a little part of me is forever his, but I couldnt have him as a life partner (Aries Moon, too moody!) my life is with my bf, but that doesnt mean that I sometimes wonder if I shuoldnt have just let go sooner, if he came back, so be it.. as I said to Kalni early, it wouldnt have changed the outcome. Maybe I should have had an OM, or dated the Piscean. I didnt as I didnt feel it would have been fair if I wasnt over my ex.

I'm trying to decide on another college course, so I asked him last night "depends on our future plans...". He paused and calmly said "you mean children?" I said, is that what you think? He paused for ages and calmly said, well, you could always reapply later...So I assume children IS in the future plan, but I dont think he has clicked that I am going to be 39 next bd (and my Nan went through the menopause at 39), so time is running out...

Ali, wow, it sounds like a lot of meotions. I think it's normal to wonder. Just let yourself feel your feelings and live in your heart, even if it is sometimes painful and confusing. Do you wish you had had an OM or dated the Piscean because now you feel you'll never have another chance...?

Tell me more about your plans for college and/or children? I'm intrigued and excited that BF brought it up. I know you mentioned it on your thread before reconciliation began, that you wanted to have little ones. What are your feelings now?

love to you!
please eat lots of olives on my behalf!
T

Hey T.. I wish I had been able to function more normally whilst he was gone! I feel a bit embarressed at the depressed, desperate state I was in for much of it. Of course, I then started to feel better.. and he was more of a depressed desperate state than me anyway, and also feels embarressed about that, so I probably shouldnt worry! I think in terms of DBing, the one thing that definetly doesnt work (or wouldnt in my case) would be to get an OM yourself. My bf is the sort of guy that would have stood back, or let me be and felt he had no right to break it up if he had wanted me back, so I probably would never have known. He has said to me, he worried sick I would find someone else and wouldnt have blamed me if I had, so I assume he means he would have assumed he had lost me and stepped aside if I had of done.

So I am glad I didnt.. but I wish I had spared myself some misery and had a little platonic fun at least. As for children.. yes, I thikn I am finally ready! I am done with the career/college striving, so I am turning down the place I won at college to go on and study more. Now all I need to do is find out from bf what he has in mind for us.. marriage? kids? I dont want to suggest to him, I want him to arrive at those conclusions by himself, be a man and make the decision. So quite a 180 for me there!

and eat olives.. why ??? xxx

Hey, I have a quick question...What do you know about soul connections? Thanks.

kat

I see. It sounds like things are still settling down inside, and that's OK! Tell me more about your decision to be done with the career/college striving. I want to learn more.

The reason I asked you to eat olives for me is because you'll be in kalamata, right? Where the olives grow?? People in the US are really into kalamata olives, not sure if it's a UK thing too.

love!!
T

Ohhh, right! When I think of Kalamata, I think of just olive oil (silly me, its the same right).. best olive oil in the world I believe. I think you can buy it in some supermarkets here! I am very much looking forward to greek salads covered in olive oil...

Yuo want to learn more? Funny, I wasnt in that place at 28, 30, 32, 35 even.. there was always something on the horizon, like when I was learning to be a programmer working full time, but was doing an art foundation too part time.. always the two different directions at once! I think I'd like to try aligning myself in one direction for a change.. but I am worried about saying, hey lets have children (I thikn he is very broody).. in case my ovaries are past their sell by date!!

Kat.. soul connections come in different forms. Me and my bf have a standard one.. where the womans moonise conjunct on the mans sun (can have that viceversa but thats the right way around, symbolically). The other major one is to do with Pluto, particularly Pluto/Venus contacts. My Pluto falls right on his Pluto/Venus conjunction in his chart. I think BobbiJo and her H have Pluto venus connections, as did Kelaroon (hi if you are still reading!). Conjunctions would be the most powerful and squares possibly a little scary, but they lend a pyschic connection that cannot be broken and can be healthy or unhealthy attachment. Cher and G have each others pluto on each others venus and are caught in a fairly addictive, unhealthy attraction I would say. Oh and it makes for amazing sex too! There are other soul connections, have you googled it?

I have but nothing very diffinitive is written. They always seem to want you to buy. Priya said we had one and that she has never seen them be avoided, they always come around. That we will get together. She recommended a psychic but when I asked him if he could give me some direction regarding this, he acted like he didn't know anything about what I was asking!!

I might just e-mail her and ask if she can tell me a bit more about the soul connection but since we went so far over time before, I am not sure how much more she will give me.

Thanks for your insight I will try to figure it out. I do have a program that says we have a connection that feels fated.

kat

Oh and you can eat all the olives you want, since I can't stand them! LOL

kat

Hey Kat, which soul connection then did Priya say you had? Which Pyschic did you use? I was told of an excellent one, in fact, I never believed in it until someone gave me some free credit to one as a gift and he DID predict alot of things that came true with me and my bf and the Piscean too (who I had had no contact with for 5 years at the time of the prediction). Pretty freaky stuff!

I dont like olives either :-)

She didn't say, thus my curiosity. If I had known more I would have asked. She just said it couldn't be avoided. We were meant to come together. She couldn't tell me when. She recommended Steve Gunn. He is British and based in Florida. Maybe I just don't understand fully what they do. The psychic massage gal just told me that we will get together. He loves me and to not doubt that. Today is a year since our 4 hour flirt session/reconnection. I wonder if he remembers. But I won't be reminding him.

Oh and just to clarify Steve Gunn did not help me and I never paid him just emailed to get information and he basically said I must not understand what he does and even though I told him that Priya Kale referred me, he asked who she was. Strange and discouraging.

kat

Ok well, put your and his dates into astro.com, place of birth, if you dont know time of birth, use midday (else the free horoscopes wont work without a time).. then go to Free Horoscopes and click on AstroClick Partner..you can find pluto/venus or pluto/moon connections there?

We have these using that site: Venus square Neptune, moon trine venus,Venus sextile ascendant, Sun conjuct Pluto, Moon opposition Ascendant, Neptune sextile Pluto, Saturn opposition Pluto, Moon in the 7th house, Venus in the 10th house and Sun in the 11th. I see lots of good things but are these what I am looking for?

kat

Lol!!! That's my punch line to leave the group. I have NO idea what you are talking about.
And Kat she suggested the same person to me. I didnt bother...
K

Just funny though that he didn't seem to read the e-mail very closely or he would have read her name. Maybe he just isn't into taking referrals but yet he says to e-mail him to set up a time for a consult. Not going to bother with him. The gal I came upon that is psychic doesn't talk about it much so I take her as fairly valid, at points she was ready to cry because she was so glad that we connected.

kat

Ali since you don't eat olives, bag them up when you visit K and mail them to me! I love them!!

So glad you are going to take this trip. I am jealous! Going to Greece with the one you love AND meeting K??? Too lucky you are....

Hey girls! Thanks, it still feels kind of surreal sometimes, like, did I just dream that 2 years of misery!??

Kat.. try David.. top one on LivePerson (has 18,000 positive reviews), he predicted in January what would unfold in the spring, with the Piscean and my bf both wanting to make a serious commitment to me.

Bobbi.. thanks! Perhaps I should try olives again?? I am rooting for you you know...

So last night we had a big talk about money and helen and that 2 years of fog. I was tidying the house for my parents coming today and found a bottle of very expensive aftershave I hadnt bought him (it was horrible, really strong and flamboyant) he looked crestfallen and said yes it was from her, for Christmas. I said, but you told me she didnt get you anything? He said, I forgot she did and that it was here, theres so much I have forgotton, or put out of my mind, I dont want to ever think about it ever again and I dont want to talk about it either...it doesnt matter anymore, thats why I'm here with you.

But I cant be told whats best for HIM all of the time, so I calmly and lovingly explained that I too want us to have a normal future R, to put this behind us, but I cant whilst I still keep finding things in the house and wondering and then when I ask him, he doesnt think it matters...I gave him the analogy of the jigsaw from Hope4Us, that he has the full picture and has already processed and 'let it go'.. but he only recently started handing me the pieces and sometimes he swaps them and changes what he gave me and I dont even yet have a full picture with holes in, I have a jumble of pieces I have tried to assemble. He understood completely why I need to know and admitted that he was the same after my EA. I also explained there is a 'hole' in our life together and in a funny kind of way, I want to understand what it was like for him, to date someone else, how it felt, how he got by.. also, being depressed and feeling 'crazy'.. he said with that part, yes most people would advocate talking about the depression, but he would rather just draw a line under it and never speak of it again, that he does worry it will return as bad as that one day, but that he learnt alot and feels he wouldnt be so stupid next time to not ask for help or be too proud to take tablets.

So then we talked. He said he doesnt know what he was thinking, he should never have dated her and it wasnt fair on himself, or me, or her. That it was never right, from the beginning. He admitted yes, he did like her, but they didnt chat like we did, it wasnt natural. Same as he always says. I asked how he reacted to the aftershave and he said he put on a pretence he liked it and wore it Christmas day "for her", but not since, eventhough she asked him about it a few times. I said this worries me, why did you keep doing things "for her".. like the DIY you got roped into at her house? He said, I know what you're thinking, but I'm not like that with you.. it just took me a long long time to pull myself out of it. I got myself into something and I couldnt see how to extract myself. He said he still feels tremendous, almighty guilt, everyday for how he behaved and what he did to me, that he cannot believe how stupid he was. That he just wants to forget the whole experience entirely, wipe his memory, never wants to speak to her again. He feels that its like it wasnt him that was dating her, it was like it happened to someone else, which he put down to the fact that he wasnt himself when depressed.

We had an almost argument about money earlier in the evening, he threw at me that some of his Dads inheritance money got spent (2006). So I told him we had used it to pay his Dads mortgage when he inherited the house and also that he didnt even pay rent for a year before he left me and at first he didnt believe me but then he was shocked and humbled and it hit him with clarity how much he had buried his head in the sand back then, about finances especailly, his, ours and also, about his depression. He then couldnt have been nicer to me and I think it was a real watershed moment for him, realising he needs to take responsibility for so many things that were wrong back then and not fall into those traps again.

Good for you, both of you. Now let all of that soak in and have a wonderful holiday!! Really with him now being even more aware, I am sure he will try not to fall into those bouts again. Just keep on working together.

I think when you get depressed it happens so gradually that people that are around all the time may not ever see how severe it has become. Keep allowing for open conversation and when he see him getting down, don't take it all on yourself to make it better, but allow him to see that he needs some help.

Thanks for your suggestion. I might look that up.

hugs, kat

Ali,

I've read almost all of your posts the last couple of days. My curiousity was piqued when I saw mention that your bf suffers from depression. Our stories are amazingly similar. My H and I separated for 18 months and have been back together for three years now. I'm posting to say "thank you" for posting your journey so openly and honestly! It's been a blessing for me to read and confirmation that my H's depression was largely responsible for our break. Although we are very, very happy, I've wondered why we've never discussed and gotten to the bottom of the reasons he said IDLYA, left, and had a relationship with ow. It hasn't been much of an issue between us, and like you, we went back to our former relationship (improved though!), and haven't looked back. My H is also positive that he will never stray again, and is soooo loving, even more than he was before the break. If it eases your mind at all, my H has said everything that your bf has said. That he wasn't thinking right, that he can't remember, and he's amazed at the things he did while he was in "the black hole". He said he loved me, but couldn't FEEL the love he knew he should be feeling for me. That it haunted him, and he started searching for happiness and relief from the black fog that surrounded him every day. He left and was deeper depressed and couldn't catch happiness. He didn't pull out of his fog until he was treated for his depression and says he doesn't know the person he was while we were separated. He totally can't relate to who he was or the things he did then.

You are correct that depression is something that you will most likely deal with long term. It isn't easy, but it's easier knowing what his illness is and how it can affect him. Most importantly, he has a name for his unhappiness now, and it's not mine! We also battle sexual issues (mostly due to ADs). For a long time I thought it was fallout from his R with ow. He felt guilty for hurting her. He felt guilty that she didn't mean anything to him. He felt guilty for hurting me and our kids. Most of all, he felt like he had missed out on so much while we were separated and just wanted to move on. He doesn't want to waste a minute of time talking about the past, or hashing out reasons. I was unable to accept that for a long time, but I've come to realize we have a reason. Depression. We can't figure out logically what happened and how our depressed WAS felt because everything they went through defies logic. That's why it's an illness that is treated.. it's not normal.

Anyway, thanks so much for sharing! I hope it helps you just a little that there is another WAH out here whose experience mirrors your bf's. I truly don't think you have a thing to worry about in the future. I'm living that future in my R and it's FABULOUS. Accept it.. you deserve it!!

Ali and Piglet2,

Thank you for sharing. I'm struggling with the 1 year anniversary of "the bomb" in 3 days. Your insights and encouragement help put some of the puzzle pieces together.

GAG

GAG - I am so glad it helps you.. I tried to find answers the whole time we were apart and I know my sitch is one type (the depressed WAS, no PA.. he dated ow once we were apart 10 months).. but some of the things he did seem pretty standard for the boards, so I am glad to post stuff about his thinking!

Piglet.. wow, I'm stunned. Thats an incredible story, thank you so much for reading and posting to me! I feel like you, that we will be fine in the future. Like you, my bf is being VERY loving, more even than he was the first 9 years. My Mum and Dad stayed with us last night (which was lovely and special).. my Mum said, wow, he looks so relaxed and happy and you two have just picked up where you left off, like the 18 months never happened.. She sees it and like you, its improved though and better than ever.

Wow and this sounds exactly as my bf speaks to me, exactly..

Quote:

my H has said everything that your bf has said. That he wasn't thinking right, that he can't remember, and he's amazed at the things he did while he was in "the black hole". He said he loved me, but couldn't FEEL the love he knew he should be feeling for me. That it haunted him, and he started searching for happiness and relief from the black fog that surrounded him every day. He left and was deeper depressed and couldn't catch happiness. He didn't pull out of his fog until he was treated for his depression and says he doesn't know the person he was while we were separated. He totally can't relate to who he was or the things he did then.

Interesting about the guilt over ow, the convo we had was about how he felt guilty for starting anything with her even, as she was nothing to him (yet she loved him). He keeps saying he doesnt know what he was thinking, it was a madness decision to date her, but he said he has largely let go of the guilt he felt for her. I finally told him something I had found out, that ow had been chasing Cher's brother.. who is good looking but only 22 and very annoying! I said perhaps he should stop worrying about her now, she seems capable of moving on.. since then, he seems to feel better about it.

His guilt toward me though is even stronger at the moment. I was able to validate that though and say, yes, I know how bad you feel, now you know how I felt after my EA, its just horrendous.. the antidotes are doing right by your partner now, making up for lost time as you say and also, just give it time. He liked that I completely understood.

I told him last night, I feel so lucky, to be lying in your arms again. He said HE was the lucky one. I said I was lucky, it could have been a different story, if it had worked out with ow, he could've been living with her instead now.. he said, no that could never have happened with her, I said, why not? He said, becuase you are my soulmate.

Thanks sooo much for posting Piglet, its very helpful to know someone else has walked in my shoes.

You are truly lucky. I think he was dealing maybe more with the depression which was increased by his Dad's passing. Helen wasn't the OW in the regular sense, so I think that worked in your favor.

I did e-mail Priya and asked which planets etc were involved in my soul connection. If I explained that well enough hopefully I will have an answer I can pass on to you soon. I did give you all of those squares, ascendants and sextiles that related to Venus, Pluto and the moon off of astro.com but not sure that they made sense. I did find a blog that Steve Gunn wrote regarding soul connections. It described it pretty much the way I feel. So I am not losing it because I have this connection. I understand that we both aren't necessarily on the same page but will eventually get there.

Have a fun trip. kat

Hi Kat.. yes I think you are right, thank goodness that phase of our lives and his is over.. I still spring to tears when U think of his Dad, it was such a difficult time.. to suddently have to take care of this funny, but beligerant depressed man with a stroke, after being fairly absent from his sons life, emotionally, for the past 20 years. I'm sorry I couldnt help more on the soulmate thing.. but trust your intuition hey!

I'm having a real 'letting go' weekend.. of the past. I feel like I am more in love with him than ever, if that were possible. He just looks so happy and is being so lovely, its hard to tear myself away from him, I feel such a sap. x

How wonderful to be connecting again at such a soul deep level. It's a beautiful thing Ali!

When do you leave for Greece?

Hey Ali, I just wanted to let you know I think I am understanding alot better how you felt when the two of you were apart. This roller coaster of emotions is crazy. Don't forget to give Maria hugs for me!

kat

You are NOT having sex in my house!!! It is declared a NO SEX zone and you will NOT contaminate(sp?) my bed!! LOLOL!!!
S

Hey girls! Thanks Kat.. I guess you mean that there was this real love between us and it was so hard to be apart? Wow, its still feels surreal being with him. We just spent 3 days straight alone together, both off work ill Fri and then a sunny weekend at the beach. Thats enough for me, for now, but he wonders why noone calls (everyone is still staying away, letting us rebuild, but its been 4 months nearly!!).

K - No NO NO NO NO!! We would never do that in your house, that would be like doing it in his Mums, or my Mums, ewww, no way!! Haha. And anyway, we are not having sex in our own house, neverlone anyone elses! Apart from once or twice.. he is still feeling 'not sexy' and now feels 'flat' - but then he told me he lost his pills last weekend and so hasnt had one since then. So, he starts to get quiet and less fun... He is going to ring round his friends today to see if he can find them.

The no ML is getting to me. I feel like I need more reassurance than this (although he gives it to me all day long really, hugs, kisses etc). We had a little chat about how he feels, he said he reacts badly when we talk because it makes him realise how much he upset me and hurt me and he cant bare how that makes him feel. He said he knows what he wants now and was 'crazy' before and is largely nowhere near that anymore, but not 100% ok yet. Meanwhile, the closer we get and the further the bomb is, the more resentments rise.. its like.. how could you do that to me !?? But I dont tell him. Its not the fact he left me, its the way he left, so brutally...

You 've been having one of the smoothest reconciliations on these boards and still, you tell us something is OFF. I wonder if anyone, anyone can make it if you two feel weird. Your BF sounds like he is on his knees constantly, remorsefull and tender and loving. Maybe you too need to deal with some of your issues as well. There is not much else he can do, you know?

So, are you still coming? Maybe we can go skiing together, LOL!!!
K

I am IN a meeting as I type, LOL

Ali... I really think when you get back from greece you should think about going to therapy together. Your resentment, his sexual issues--those are things that you need to deal with. Not insurmountable, but sweeping them under the rug isn't going to work as a lifelong coping mechanism.

I'm not sure you guys are into this, and/or maybe this is TMI for the boards, but could he give you oral or something, so you could feel loved without it being about his sexual performance fears? I'm not sure how to bring that up without pressuring him for something that maybe he's not into, but maybe it would be worth exploring other options in terms of connecting intimately, youknowwhatim'saying??

LOVE!
T

Hey girls! Ahh.. you know, we're really ok though, I am so lucky and I am sure others can make it if I can! We are like a picture of domestic bliss.. if I really posted it all, it would make for sickening reading on a forum like this !! For example, he just called me sweetie poppet schnookey honey lumps... or something equally ridiculous.. its like he cant get enough terms of endearment into one sentence (its sort of a sweet jokey thing though too!). You are right K, he always was a sensitive kind man, but he's amazing me with how loving and tender he is being. I still feel tripped out, like I'm dreaming it...

I do struggle a bit with the thought of him being with another woman (like yesterday he admitted they went away for a weekend to meet her friends, but he didnt connect with any of them and has no desire to see people from that period again).. which is great!.. but my head gets stuck on.. they went away for a weekend...I guess its just time?? I do reassure him that I look back and view events in the CONTEXT of him being depressed (and not some b*stard or something).

T - I did suggest to him we can just be intimate or loving, doesnt have to be the big ML. He agreed and seemed keen on trying massage! and says its just a phase thuogh and then it will all be back to normal. The annoying thing is, he has NO performance issues and nothing to worry about! Must be a mental thing, maybe its the guilt??

I booked MC sessions, very rebutable UK place, I got it free through work even (which is great as its normally �60 a time) but he said he didnt want to go and asked me not to push it on us, so I droppped it.

K - yes we are still coming, by the weekend 19th if thats ok.. is it still hot there!!??

No, it's chilly and raining!!! God I hope you will make to the islands. Maybe stick to the bigger ones? And on Oct 4th we have elections so you better make sure you have all tickets booked because in Greece we move around to vote at the location of our birth or hometown or the place where our legal rights are, and we get off days for travelling, so alot of people we'll be moving around that weekend.

You need to tell me time and flights!!!
K

Oh no !! I just told bf that.. I keep asking why we never went yet, I'm not sure, maybe because he was under a lot of pressure at work last week?? I kept telling him the weather changes in Greece in late September. Thats bad news about the elections too, although we were going to be flying back the 3rd Oct at the latest anyway. Best laid plans!! Eek.

Massage. Yes!

Which part are you guys massaging by the way? Missed that!

Well.. had the children convo! I bought it up, tentativley.. he said you know that something I want to do... I said really? How come you didnt tell me that? He said, well there has to be right time.. I said, a right time to tell me, or to do it? He said to do it... Loooong pause from me then... I'm going to be 39 in March... Nothing back ! Will be an immaculate conception at this rate though

Break out the sexy undies again!

I havent the heart to! I pay him compliments, eye him up, touch him up even, every day.. nada. He is very very huggy and affectionate though, thank goodness. I am struggling a bit. He couldnt be trying harder really, considering he is still not 100% well.. but I feel anger rising the past few days (trouble is, I cant 'access' it and it disipates) and anyway, he's not allowing me to express it as he doesnt want to talk about her and whats done is done and is best forgotton...so I have to swallow it.

Last night he called BMF.. he took Helen to stay there in February, which made me angry..he had already decided it was over with her and admitted he didnt want to take her, but she 'gave him no choice', yet he took her to meet his bestest friend in Wales. Why do that? It feels strangely humiliating. We are going to visit BMF soon (I havent seen him since before the bomb and its a huge deal for me) and he's very glad we are.

As for the children thing.. I have no idea how long he wants to put it off for (but the time isnt right now I assume from what he said) and yet, it may already be too late for me and my ovaries!

I am sure that can all be a bit stressful and no one wants to feel manipulated(I had that from my ex). But maybe if you have them on and just as you are changing...

I think he really needs to talk to his doctor about his meds but I think he will have to feel that he decided that. I have no doubt that he is very happy to be back with you and loves you a great deal.

Some sexual aids may be in order for you because really there are several ways to "do it".

kat

hmmm... he wants to have kids, but he doesn't want to have sex. That's exciting about the kids part but kind of conflicted behavior.

I want you guys to go see dr. schnarck so bad!!!!!!!

Hey Kat, T! Well, this is difficult, I get the big reconciliation and.. still living like a nun!

So had the BIG talk tonight about kids.. following up the briefer chat yesterday (hadnt escaped my notice this momumentous convo, first since early 2006, happened on the Uranus-Saturn thing.. ). He said he DOES want us to have kids, that he just thinks its not quite the right time, as we've been through alot and wants to have some time to enjoy each other and have fun for a little while.. but he's talking months delay, not years. I pointed out earlier that I am 39 soon and any delay now is risking it.. he had said he is concerned about money (I am a temp with no maternity rights) and wonders if we could wait until I am on a full-time contract.. I said, ok, you are right, we could potentially get 8 weeks min and upto 6 months maternity, what 4, 6, 7k? Or...if we delay until I have earned maternity rights.. that might mean we never have kids.

I also said, I dont know how fertile I am and I dont know how you would feel if it doesnt happen. He said, well.. you know I want kids. And then there was a big silence and some hugs and I feel that intuitevely, we may split up in 5-7 years time if we ry and it just doesnt happen. Its too theoretical and makes me too sad, but realistically, I feel our chances are slim, especially if we delay, so I was thrilled he wants to try in a few months time!!!

When I mentioned OUR ferility.. he straight away said, ok, I will go for tests when we get back and said he agreed it was a good idea for me to start taking folic acid right away. So.. crikey !!

GO check your feritility levels so you get it out of your mind...
xx

Hey Maria! You are up late??
I am booked to get my hormones looked at when we get back and I mentioned the folic acid and he knows this is important.. his BFF lost a baby to spina bifida. Still, it could be harder to 'catch' at my age.. my bFF took 2 years of IVF when she was 37 ! Plus the risk of defects goes up of course at my age. I was amazed he suggested straight away to get tested himself, I really was very impressed.

WE BOOKED OUR FLIGHTS!!! Arrive Saturday night.. super excited!! Will email you xxx

OK, going to bed now. My friend got pregnant at 38 with noooo problem. And yes your mom had issues but we always are an improved version of our parents... Worrying isnt helping.
K

I know, I know! He told me not to worry so much... and my Mum got pregnant first time, both times and I did too once, my only ever accident (not my fault sadly, hence the termination).. so at least I know I CAN get pregnant. I just hope the op didnt do any damage. So many unknowns quite honestly, but tonight was a massive step in a very important direction! Thanks guys for your support and for listening, it really means alot to me, I cant tell you how much.

Congrats, I am so excited things keep moving in the right direction for you!

Thanks M, Bobbi.. Its wierd, I still am having bad dreams every night (my brain is still 'processing' and settling down from the trauma of the last 2 years!) but the dreams are getting less anxious. I still feel a bit down too when I wake (perhaps from the dreams)but this morning I suddenly felt....excited! Its a whole new future. I just have to assume it IS possible and that I will fall pregnant. I am going to the chemist today to buy pre-pregnancy vitamins (I wont make a fuss to him about this, I will just take them). It feels ok we are talking about such a huge thing, just 4 months after reconciling, he said it wasnt stressing him out, he is just concerned about money and everything being "right" and settled. One thing though.. I did want to get M before we had kids, not for moral reasons, just because, it would be nice to do it that way around and celebrate with friends and family and THEN be waddling around like a tank. But I dont want to put any pressure on him, he would have to come to that decision himself and WANT to ask me to M him.

T, yes ironic hey..but about the no-ML.. he said, he is still settling into this..I said, what, being back with me??? He said, NO NO, this is it for me now,we are set.. I mean, settling back into life, back into myself, after everything that happened, how I was, that he is still a bit up and down but it will be ok. So, I guess he's kind of.. recalibrating??

Just a heads up...if you wait until everything is just so to have kids, you never will. Life is messy, something is always coming up. I say just have a plan, work it and then try for babyhood! I had issues and it took sometime. I had to take fertility drugs for my first three,then we were done. However, the guy upstairs had other plans and without any fertility drugs, wham..#4!! They are all a blessing. If you ever want a test run, you can borrow one of mine. LOL

kat

I'd happily send you my teenager to deal with for a month or so. It would be GREAT preparation....for what I'm not sure but it would have to prepare you for something.

So you arrive in Greece this Saturday?????? WOW! AWESOME! Please give K a HUGE hug from me. I would so love to go meet her. I wish it weren't so far and so expensive to get there. Someday I'm going to get to leave my house........

Another thing you might want to do is go get an ovulation kit. You basically pee on a stick for several days in a row inside of a certain number of days after your period to make sure you are actually ovulating.

Hey girls!! Wow, look at us discussing babies and ovulation! Funny hey. I used to just talk about the fact I didnt know where he lived still

Kat - I'm sure I mentioned, theres never a 'right' time and he agreed and said, I'm worrying too much (guess the responsibility would fall to him though, to provide for us).. and I'd love to borrow your kids, you too Mish ! Thats a great idea about the ovulation kit. I dont care on the cost, IVF is thousands. I just read this!!..

There are Pisces who may decide to have a baby, and in truth it's always a good time to have a child. If you have always wanted a baby, news that you received last month at the end of August may have proved exciting, and you may now be painting the nursery pink or blue. Not yet? You may still get news of a surprise pregnancy in September. If you are not ready for a baby, take precautions and be careful in early September.
Additional news about romance, new love, or a baby that comes to you next month, on or near October 14, will be very upbeat and give you important clues about the future. The dates mentioned are "eclipse points" that will be triggered by energetic Mars. If you want a baby, the eclipses that continue to come your way every six months until mid-2011 will be your friend.

Well what a stroke of luck..but watch out K ! Yes, we fly in Saturday night to meet K.. I cant wait !

...ok, I'm off to Greece to see M and I will give her all of your hugs, along with a nice English cup of tea

Al xxx

Looking forward to vaca pics Ali! Have a wonderful time.

How long are you gone?

Ali,

I hope you have a wonderful trip!!! You certainly deserve it. Who knows, once BF begins to relax on the trip ML may just happen. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Oh, give Kalni a hug for me as well.

Princess,

I'm all caught up w/you now and it is really neat that you are doing so well w/BF and he's so receptive to the baby talk. The good news also means that more baby talk w/lead to the best part of the baby-making process -- PRACTICE!!!

kat said what I was going to say:

Quote:

if you wait until everything is just so to have kids, you never will

This is so incredibly true. As far as the money and stuff like that goes, you just seem to find a way to make it work. Once you decide to go for it, it all figures out a way to work out for you.

So, don't wait for the perfect moment, but instead get after it, girl! Besides, in the meantime, at least you'll be getting in lots and lots of practice!

RTL

Are you back from vacation yet? Just checking in.

RTL

Hey everyone, Rob, yes I am back !!!
We had an AMAZING time in Greece, one of the best holidays I've ever had. It was just beautiful, really really hot and of course, it was fantastic to meet Maria at last, see where she lives and just hang out and chat, meet her family too, be silly and pull faces and giggle (and with her kids!

) and also, to eat loads of yummy Greek food (thanks M!). I was glad to meet her H at last, despite all he has done, because I am a curious person. And yes, sadly, we were terribly British and polite and DID shake his hand.

After a lovely few days at the house, we went off round the islands, which was brilliant and we had the best time. Santorini in particular is stunning, but it was a little crowded, so we went and sizzled on the beach at Naxos (a nudist beach!). We saw some funny sights, as Naturists tend to be over 60's!

We had a chat about M's H one night and she asked bf for his perspective. What he said was VERY interesting to me, he's touched on it once before in a chat before our holiday, but he actually admitted what I kept telling him before the bomb.. he feels that the fact her H's Mum died a few years back, plus other relatives soon after was very interesting and could be the trigger for his A and the S. He went onto explain that men dont deal with things, they say they do, or are, but they arent. In reality, men are weak and cant look at emotional things, so very much comparmentalise them and literally shut a door on it and go, I'm not looking at that, I cant deal with it and slam it. But that its not then dealt with and festers. He said he didnt deal with the death of his Dad, despite telling me he had and says to some extent he still hasnt dealt with it. He said it DOES have a catastrophic effect in some cases and makes you aware of your own mortality and like, is this it? and mumbled something about being aware of last chance, or time running out.. and then he trailed off. But I was sat listening to this in M's house, almost mouth open. Because this was EXACTLY what I was saying to him summer 2007 and he got angry and said "its NOTHING to do with the death of my Dad, dont bring my Dad into this, I just dont love you anymore.". But then like bf also said, hindsight is a wonderful thing and you can only see what was going on at the time, with the perspective of a few years.

We also had another big talk on the islands one night and he was very relaxed and open about it, which is a big difference to 2, 3, 4 or 5 months ago. Although our reconciliation was fast I agree, it has still taken him 5 months to be comfortable talking about some issues and he still isnt completely. More on that later though. Al x

I am so glad that you had a wonderful holiday! I am sure it was wonderful to meet Maria. I can see her being such a sweet and warm person. Also glad that bf could open up a bit about his Dad's passing. In my own case, when my grandmother died, everyone thought I should be over it all ready and didn't want to hear me anymore. It is still coming out bit by bit and it has been 10 years!!

Take care of your wonderful selves and I will check back with you later.

kat

Sounds like a wonderful time Al and good progress with BF. It must feel wonderful to be moving forward like you are.

Hey Kat, Mish, yes it does feel amazing... surreal even to be back to normal.

We had a big convo on holiday which I cant remember much of now, but he DID tell me that he wanted to come back sooner, but that he "couldnt face" it, as he knew he had to make it up to me.. and at that time, he could barely take care of himself (because of messing up so much and being depressed).. he said, he literally didnt care what happened to him for about a year, so although he wasnt deliberately suicidal, he was in effect, as he wasnt taking care of himself at all and didnt care about himself. He wasnt eating well, drinking heavily and felt crazy. But hey, we know that.

I told him that my Mum, BFF and Aunties (and I think K!) all told me, just tell him.. come home. Just come home.. but I felt I couldnt say that to him, he had to want to come back and then he sort of made a snort.. I said, wow, if I had of then, would you have? And I intuitively added.. if I had also said, its ok, come home, you dont have to make it up to me, we will just put it behind us for now.. he said, yes, maybe I would have (damn why didnt I say it then!!!)

He said...I just couldnt take care of myself and so couldnt face the thought of not only taking care of you too, but having to make it up to you on top of that. So there you go kids. Guess thats why the DB way says to minimise guilt and be super forgiving. You do need SOME encouragement though hey and at least he was giving that to me at the time.

I can tell you now: Marmite STINKS!!!! Why did I expect anything better from Brits!!!
S

Ali, you know he had to get to a better place first. I know how impatient I can be so I totally get the feeling there. I spoke with Steve Gunn this weekend, Priya had recommended him to me to help understand soul connections.

He is British and a hoot. He is talking about karma and so I ask him if he knows what karma flirt guy and I need to settle and he says yes, but I am not going to do the work for you. Your guy by the way is a bit of an emotional storm and has quite a bit to work out.

I already knew that. Steve says that he is drawing energy from me to help himself feel better but little does he know I am feeling all of that with big bad headaches! I have also "known" he was getting a little upset with himself because he wouldn't stop thinking about me.

I have a long way to go to understand this stuff, but it was very nice to speak with someone who understood what I was going through. Thank goodness, I am not crazy.

Sorry to hijack but wanted to let you know.

kat

Ali,

I am so VERY happy for you and BF!!! It's hard to believe it's been almost 5 months since you reunited. You made more wonderful memories together on your Greek holiday that will bond you together even more strongly.

Thank you for writing about your recent convos with BF. I was particularly interested in your comments as my D-day is 1 month away. I have written to you before because my H seems depressed and lost like your BF was. When you have a chance would it be possible for you to look at my sitch here (www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1850990&page=1) and here (10/2/09 12AM and 10/3/09 3PM www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1850990&page=2)

I would really value your perspectives about my current situation.

Thanks.

GAG

Hey girls... I really want to keep posting if it helps, especially as I am sure theres more to uncover.

I discovered something new on holiday. Remember I was upset he took her for a weekend in Wales at BMF? Well seems they dropped in on another old BMF on the way (my exBF in fact! The one that treated me badly and made bf realise he was in love with me and wanted to wrestle me away from that guy)..I know its daft, but it adds more hurt. Still, he couldnt be more reassuring, so like all the rest of it, I just have to ...let it go.

Kat, no problem! So that guy was helpful? And he was sure Mr flirt is still thinking of you? Its been over a year hasnt it since you spoke..could you get in touch? Send him a funny card or something??

GAG, thanks so much, its such a short time really, but feels like a lifetime too! I thought it was interesting that he basically said his depression made him unable to take care of himself or do the right thing by himself, he couldnt stress enough, he just didnt care, that he was very self destructive. But even with all that, he know deep down he still loved me and although he missed me terribly, he couldnt face coming back because of the effort it would take to fix it. I presume he then started dating Helen at that point, as it may have seemed an easier option and besides, he just didnt think about it, he literally fell into headlong and once he had, he found it very very hard to extricate himself. Men are such idiots !

I will check out your threads later today. xxx

Ali we have kept e-mailing since last September. I cut way back though in July as I felt the need for myself. That is when I started really getting pulled by this connection because in my own way I was fighting it.

Also in August is when I started to get flashes of his feelings. So finally it all is starting to make sense! His birthday was Saturday and I sent him a card with a small reminder of our past. I figured it couldn't hurt.

The stuff that you discover with regards to BF and Helen will still hurt a bit but it is so good that he is still willing to talk to you about it and reassure you. I don't think he sees her as OW because she sort of filled a gap in time while you were apart. Of course you see her as such because she kept you apart longer. I am just thrilled for you that things continue to get better.

hugs, kat

Hi Ali,

Thank you SO VERY much for your generosity in sharing. It really DOES help to give us LeftBehinders about as much peace as we may be able to get since our WalkAways are not able to offer explanations to us. I had a session with Jody this morning (I've been working with her for 11 months now). She said that your explanation for BF's resistance to coming back was spot on in my situation.

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

he basically said his depression made him unable to ....... care, that he was very self destructive. But even with all that, he knew deep down he still loved me and although he missed me terribly, he couldnt face coming back because of the effort it would take to fix it.

Jody confirmed that my H is depressed and in MLC mode. His resistance to reconsidering has seemed very odd since we began to reconnect last February because with his actions it seems very clear that he still has special feelings ---- yes, even loving feelings--- for me.

I know you've posted this info before somewhere, but given the additional processing you have done with BF recently, would you please restate what thing(s) were most instrumental in moving him to summon the energy to risk coming back to you, even in his depressed state?

Jody suggested writing a letter to H to give to him 2 weeks before our D-day to ask if he would consider delaying the date. As I craft this letter I would like to post and ask for feedback on this site.

Thanks! Even though I've never met any of you, I want you to know how much your kindness means to me.

GAG

Yes Kat, thats very insightful of you! She wasnt an ow in the sense its used around here, no I agree. He has had some dealings with her at work, just purely formal work emails he said, but I'm not bothered (thank goodness!). As for your guy, wow, I didnt realise you two were emailing all this while? I'm guessing he is still with the gf??

Hey GAG.. your story sounds alot like mine.. we reconnected LAST February and spent increasing amounts of time together (practically whole weekends by June/July time) and I too couldnt fathom his resistance to getting back with me, despite he clearly still cared and was displaying loving feelings even, just the same. He then, inexplicably stopped all contact and started dating Helen. He said they got close at work, it just happened and he didnt mean it to. He has since explained it was "madness", but that perhaps he wanted our breakup to make sense (as it didnt) and it was something new and different but looking back it was a ridiculous decision.

As for then breaking up with her and coming back to me... basically, he missed me. His BMF told me, keep doing what you are doing.. just being you, because thats what he misses. Also, it helped my cause that she was a PITA and shouted at him alot. THey had a massive row on 13th Feb.. our 10 year anniversary I just found out. He said he was sat there, being shouted at,thinking... Al wouldnt shout at me like this, ever.

I asked him before what changed, why did he decide to give it another go, was it something I did, or was it just he had to arrive at that decision in himself? (the convo is on one of the pages of this thread somewhere).. he said, no, it wasnt me as such, just that he finally started to wake up and decide he had to do what was best for him and make better decisions, that he is slow to process things, but he just slowly got to that point in himself. I also think me letting go a bit more helped.

I will ask him again though! If I can (its tricky this week, he is fed up to be back at work.

Glad you are progressing... Amazing to read all you thoughts here, my impression of you guys was that you were never apart... I think you need to keep posting, get it out of your system. Start talking about the future more, not the past unless it will help you move forward.
love
M

Ali,

Thanks for looking at my thread and thanks for your feedback. Your BF had to extricate himself from a relationship to return to you. THAT took energy. As far as I know my H is not in a relationship now but he has purchased a new home and spent a lot of money on a D attorney. In his eyes this may seem like too much to push back from, although filing a delay for the final D wouldn't cost much.

Oh well, took MIL to the dog park today. It was fun, so for now I'm feeling even keeled.

Thanks again for your feedback! Very happy for you and BF!

GAG

Al, I got the wrong old number and your mobile is off. If you read this, send me a TM...

Hey K.. thanks for the chat. I wish I could have helped you a little more!

On the whole I am very lucky in that its gone as well as it could I think since he was back. Ok, so the way he left was a terrible shock, he never let me see where he lived for 18 months (which does still bother me a bit) and there was a gf for 8 months.. but it IS as though we were never apart really, apart from these bizarre events. He is very reassuring, but generally, life has 'settled down'. Every day since we have got back, theres the odd little bicker, or he has snapped abuot something.. because he is tired, fed up to be back at work and we have builders in who took the roof off the kitchen, so its freezing in here ! But as he said, dont worry, it doenst mean anything, its not that we are harking back to how it was 2 years ago, thats gone now, done, we are going to have little differences of opinion sometimes and thats normal and to be expected in any relationship. When he put it that way, I felt fine. I still have a bit of work to do on my confidence at times. Little things like a moments snapping at me, wouldnt have bothered me a jot 3, 4, 5 years ago. Now they have this significance.. Oh no, am I being annoying, is he going off me, is he going to leave again!?? But of course not. And he's right, its healthy and normal to express himself more honestly.

Just wanted to share that, even though things sound like a bed of roses, it isnt always !!

You are right, it isn't always a bed of roses. That is reality! That is what gets some people in trouble, they think it is supposed to be a bed of roses all the time and they don't understand/accept that in any good relationship there will be 'bad' parts/moments/days/etc....

You guys sound normal, and normal is something I hope to achieve someday!

Ali, I just read what you wrote on Kalni's thread. It is so easy to think of the time apart from your boyfriend as wasted, but it wasn't. You both had some lessons to learn so that you could come together without baggage and have a true relationship. He had to grieve his Dad and also find a strength within himself that he didn't know he had. He had to learn to be strong enough for you when you were ill or sad or just in a funk.

You had to learn that it was really him that you wanted and not just because he left. You want him despite his depression. You also learned to count on yourself more and that you could be ok by yourself.

You both used your time so certainly wasn't wasted. Now get back to knowing that you are both lucky that you are meant to be together. No more taking any of it for granted.

hugs, kat

Hey Kat... thanks for posting! I certainly dont take any for granted now, wow, I was reading on Bobbi's thread how she misses just being able to lean over and kiss her man and that struck a chord with me, as thats one of the first thing I noticed when we reconciled. And I realised that I probably DIDNT kiss him that much before, during the day, all those years I had opportunity. I certainly do now.

And you're right about it not being wasted. Him leaving me 'cured' me of some crippling fears and phobias that had dominated my thinking since I was 17, so I was VERY grateful for that, as I told him this morning. We had a big chat, as he could tell I was 'off' with him the past few days.. I think the resentments just build up in waves, but its not as bad as it sounds and as time goes on, it all feels like a distant memory. He cried and when I asked why, he said partly because he hurt me SO much and for how he treated me and he can never change that and he cant bear to think about it and partly, because he was upset to think back on what happened to him, how he fell apart and became 'mentally frayed' and fragile. He says he does see it as a failure, or like he is useless for having the breakdown.. so we talked that one through too.

We talked about why he didnt phone/see me Nov-March, he said he had conversations only with himself and decided it "wouldnt be right" to see me and he doesnt know why he thought that! As for coming back.. I asked again what made him decide to (and I was thinking of you GAG!).. he said he just started to make decisions about what was best for him and what really made him happy and what he wanted. I asked if anything I had done contributed to him wanting to come back.. he thought for a bit and said, well partly it was because he knew I wanted to give it another go too, that I was there, still wanting that.. I said, how did you know that I was still waiting? He said, he just guessed..well, he wasnt sure, but he thought I was because of how I was being with him (we were in alot of email contact Jan-April and I was always super nice, friendly, warm, accepting and no mention of the woman he was dating !!). So I guess I did that thing Jody said.. loving acceptance and consistency toward the WAS.

Hope this helps anyone reading.. and it helps me to know I can offload here!!

Ali, it really seems like your new R with bf is so much healthier. You're talking things through and helping each move past your hurts and issues. Bravo! It must feel wonderful to know that you can have that trust with him.

Keep posting your progress. I'm sure it's helping some people here who are teetering on the edge.

Ali,

SPECIAL thanks to you for posting about your convo with BF and asking him about what led him to take the chance to try reconciling with you!!!! I and, no doubt, many others appreciate that a LOT. It is interesting that it really boiled down to the link that existed between you and him ----- that you kept the path home smooth and inviting. Both you and 25yearsmlc have posted about how important this is and I am trying to remember this. Although feedback you got from mutual friends and family about BF's situation helped to give you hope to keep going, it doesn't sound as though any of their input really impacted his decision.

On Jody's advice I am penning a letter to send to my H about 2 weeks before Dday. Would you please be willing to give me feedback on it? I hope to post a draft of it to my thread within a couple days. Your experience and positive spirit would be very much appreciated.

Thank you again!

GAG

Glad to catch up with you! Your vacation sounds magnificent, and I am so glad to see that your reconciliation is going well.

Discussing stuff is part of a healthy R even if it isn't fun, and you guys sound like you are balancing the fun and the not so fun very well.

Hey Mish! Yes, I agree, its amazing but we do seem to have an even better relationship than before. When he got upset on Sunday he even said, thats not fair though, just because I find it difficult to talk about this because I hurt you so badly and it makes me feel bad, thats selfish. You shouldnt worry about upsetting me, you should be able to say whatever you want and feel. But luckily for him, I go easy on him !

Michelle.. nice to see you back, where have you been?? I hope all is well with you (and RT?). Yeah, we really try and have fun nowadays and also, when we do talk, I am concious to keep it short (1 hour max) and then I say..ok, thanks for talking to me about this..hey, lets go get lunch out...or something, change the subject/mood. I think the books say to do that. You've got to balance it out with new memories and fun.

GAG.. you're welcome! Keeping the path home smooth was vital, yes. I remember posting alot about how our extended friends and family were vital to my DBing. It kept me informed and yes, hope alive and also, he got to see me amongst our friends (good DBing opportunities!) and knew I was still in contact with everyone that had been a part of our shared life. So there was no bitterness, or awkwardness or any factor that might deter him from coming back, IF he wanted to. The biggest factor was of course, he still loved me and wasnt done, although it did take him a long time to realise that. I asked him, what would he have done if I had met someone else in the interim, whilst he was working out what he felt/wanted, would he have left me to it and never said anything? He said no, he doesnt think he would have, because it took him so long to work out what he really wanted, once he had, he knew, so no, he would have still tried to get me back. I was quite surprised at that, but I believe him.

And you are correct.. I asked him on Sunday if he spoke to anyone once he started to want me back and pull himself together and make decisions and he said not. His friends had nothing to do with his decision to come back, that was done by purely internal dialogue. But I very much took a consistent approach to him. Early on a poster told me somethning different to everyone else (I thikn it was Appleroad).. she said, men in MLC or depression are different to those that left because of an A at work, you need to do a more tailored DBing and not follow it.. you have to treat them with full love and ACCEPTANCE and be consistent.. always be there, dont reject any contact from them at all, or turn down invitations (which Jody advised me to). I never did, never once. It seems that was very important to him, that he knew I was still there for him.

Talking of DBing and the advice to GAL and act as if you're moving forward with your life to pique their interest..I also said to him that my Mum was sure that he started to sit up and take notice and act to get me back once he found out I was going out more, specifically when he heard about that party I went to with 3 guys and Cher and got in at 7am..that it galvanised him in case he lost me. I said to him, but I didnt think so.. he agreed, no, that had nothing to do with it.. I remember just feeling really glad you were getting out and enjoying yourself (like in a sweet voice, like he was just glad at the time I was doing ok and having fun). I told him I wasnt really, I was trying, but it all felt a bit empty and shallow and I was much more content now than at that time and he looked a bit relieved at that. I asked him if he thinks I SHOULD have dated whilst I was waiting for him to come to his decision to come back, would he have minded now. He said, well, selfishly, I am glad you didnt and I would mind, but I wouldnt have blamed you if you had started to see someone else, I'm sure you got offers.

In fact, I didnt really! Only from my married BMF and two immature 24 year olds who were after a one night stand !!! But I didnt tell him that, hey, its ok to keep some things back

The point I'm trying to make is, yes, DBing works.. it teaches us to be more accepting, to listen and to wait, to give them the benefit of the doubt that they just need to process their own emotions and that can take a long time (years not months)...to not knee jerk, cut all their clothes up, rush to the D courts or take a new bf to heal the hurt. Also, in the meantime, to rediscover yourself, work on any issues of your own, get your hobbies/life back and use the time to grow.

He did also say, there were things about our R that were making him unhappy and instead of talking to me and dealing with it, he stupidly didnt and just went in on himself and eventually snapped. He said this was wrong but partly to do with his depression and negative frame of mind, that he 'gave up'. I was too strong in the R and didnt listen to his opinion enough and also, me getting ill ALL the time and this dominating our life and me turning down invitations and him going out alone, led him to feel like a single man and it "ground him down". So theres never one reason why they leave and I accept that I was a PITA for a few years there, in some respects, but yes, he should have tried to talk to me instead of silently brooding and withdrawing.

But I firmly believe and he seems to agree, his decision to come back wasnt really to do with anything I did as such (except the key DB principle that I was still THERE, lovingly waiting and not done with him either)..but it was purely a very slow, as he said, internal process in himself, to work through his bereavement, MLC, depression, whatever and come round full circle.. back to what he knew he wanted all along. And yes that takes a few years in all and he's still recovering and a bit fragile at times, but its definetly behind us now. And I did use the time to work on my issues (14 months of C with three different therapists!!) and I am a better person for that I hope.

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

... I very much took a consistent approach to him. Early on a poster told me somethning different to everyone else (I thikn it was Appleroad).. she said, men in MLC or depression are different to those that left because of an A at work, you need to do a more tailored DBing and not follow it.. you have to treat them with full love and ACCEPTANCE and be consistent.. always be there, dont reject any contact from them at all, or turn down invitations (which Jody advised me to). I never did, never once. It seems that was very important to him, that he knew I was still there for him.

Ali, thank you SO much for all of this feedback. I will go back and read this many times. There is a lot of info here. On first read the big thing that caught my eye was the quote above. At this point I'm wondering if I should be initiating e-mails more (I have backed off a bit since the 1 year anniversary of the bomb 4 weeks ago, waiting for him to initiate) or should I just respond to e-mails that H initiates. I'll look for your reply. I took MIL to the dog park 1 week ago and he e-mailed me last night that even though she has Alzheimers Disease, she has been talking about how much she enjoyed the dog park and how she was kissed by a dog (he stuck his sandy little tongue in her mouth --- it was pretty funny!)

Thanks!

GAG

I am doing well! One reason I haven't been posting I suppose lol. Still NC with STBXH, D will be finalized about the 26th of this month. Still talking to my in laws, strangely enough lol.

Things with RB are good.

Life goes on I guess.

Hey Michelle, I'm glad to hear it. I think I ought to stop posting too soon, I feel like I may have outstayed my welcome

I wanted to help if I can, but every sitch is different, after all.

Yeah, I post to a few newcomers occasionally, try and keep up with the group, but other than that, not doing much with this forum. I guess I've outgrown it in a lot of ways.

I learned a lot. And I'm getting the chance to apply it in a new R. Unfortunately not with STBXH since he is still not interested in R, at least last time we talked months ago. *shrugs* But I have learned and grown. And I am definitely a better person for all my experiences.

Ali,

We will miss you when you decide it is time to leave the boards. You have a gift for writing. If I recall correctly I think you once suggested that you might one day write a book about your experience. I will be watching the NY Times bestseller list.

I'm wondering if before you sign off from the boards you would consider giving me feedback on a letter that Jody suggested I write to H to deliver sometime in the next week (2 weeks before Dday). The letter is posted on my thread (www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1855353&#Post1855353)

Thanks!

GAG

Hey Michelle, I agree with you, and me too. I actually think, thank god this happened, its transformed me.

GAG, I replied on your thread as thoroughly as I could, as I know you really want information. What worked for me may not be right for others, lord knows there were some negative comments from some posters at times to my approach, but then, I guess I trusted my intuition and I think you should do the same.

Thankyou so much for your kind comments, its been a dream of mine since I was about 6 to be a writer! I'm going to try I really am.. and I kept all my notes and I did start a book about all of this, I think I got to 20,000 words. You have inspired me to take another look at it !

xxx

Hey Ali

Just saying hi

Jx

Hey Julia! Hows life with you? Hows that Lisa London doing !?

Mines pretty quiet since I got back with bf.. ironically, all those nights on the phone to friends, nobody phones anymore !! Nor bf either. We both make the effort to keep contacting people, but its getting embarresing. My Mum said (and my sister) just this week.. well we are giving you space, to be together.. so maybe everyone feels the same, but.. its been 5 months !!!!

Other than that, cant complain

Could you have some sort of housewarming/dinner party--you are living together again, right??

Maybe having people over and showing them you are happy to have company will give them the hint....

That is a brilliant idea!

(((((Ali)))))

Been a while since I have read your thread....

Don't kick yourself for not just talling him he could come back sooner. Even though he says now he might, I don't think it would have happened. I actually think it would have set you back. He have to come back when he was ready, when it was his choice. Too soon would have been a lot worse, I think.

You did good!

I like BobbiJo's idea. Very few people reconcile successfully, so in general people just probably don't know how to react......what the protocol is. You are very creative, Ali. I'll bet you and BF can come up with some kind of really fun theme for a party that your friends would have a GREAT time attending.

In other news....., I just found out from a reliable source that my H was "dumped" last weekend by another woman --- this is the 2nd time he has been "dumped" by a woman he was dating in the last 6 weeks. I thought perhaps I was the only person he showed his irritable, depressed persona to, but it's looking as though others may be picking up on it too. I wrote about it on my thread.

GAG

Hey girls! Jeff! Thankyou, nice it turned out ok hey? After all those hundreds of posts, you really did make a difference and helped! You're probably right, he had to come back when he 'pinged' and was cooked.

Bobbi, yes we do live together and thats a great idea! We spent so long moving, then we were on holiday and what with the building work, we hadnt been able to invite many people over and its been so long, we forgot to have a house warming ! Maybe we should throw a halloween party or something. I will ask bf and thanks. Well, someone did phone and invite us out and we went to the infamous band night last night.

I noticed yesterday that Venus was squaring Pluto again (if anyone remembers me rambling on about that).. and last night, he suddenly turned to me and said "I really appreciate you. I appreciate you and what I have. When I look at what G is doing and what he might be getting, I realise, I'm glad I'm not you. Look at what I have. I'm the luckiest man alive".

Good god, I nearly stopped breathing altogether!! I of course said I felt lucky too.

Yaaaay!!! I'm so happy for you!

edit: Yeah, life is ok. I have a cold but I think so has half the country! Lisa is good, I think she had a cold too last week. We should be going to a new singing thing next week which should be fun.

I think having a party is a great idea. Halloween is a great excuse! You can dress up in something ultra fabulous.

Hey, Ali!

I'm very pleased to see how things are going w/you and bf. This is the type of story you need to make sure to let Michelle know as she'll put it in one of her books.

You said that neither you or bf think what you were doing was why he decided to come back, but I really think you are selling that short. When you DB, you focus on you and place yourself in a better, more healthier position to be in a relationship.

When you were doing that, he was absolutely noticing. He saw you moving on w/out him and it forced him to look at his own situation. All of this may have been on a subconscious level, but it is the reason they come back in the end.

If you had stayed the same, he wouldn't have done what he did. The changes in you forced the changes in him.

And now, we are all seeing how wonderful it is when things work out and you two are back together!

RTL

Hi Julia.. Rob! I owe you an email, I havent forgotton!! Thanks for your post.

I'm sorry, you raised this before and I havent ever explained myself very well. I agree it helps, as you point out. I did ask him if there was anything I could've done which would have stopped him coming back and he said, yes, if I had been mean to him.. so like I explained, DBing is a reaction to a breakup which helps, because it isnt the 'norm'. People (judging by the advice I got!) who get brutally dumped normally get angry, they get vengeful, they want to get even, they cut up clothes, jump up and down on cars and try and get a new bf asap to cope with the abandonment. They are bitter and hateful (all men are b*stards route) instead of forgiving and patient.. etc. DBing takes a very different approach!

I guess it also teaches you to get your confidence and self-respect back and rediscover yourself again.. to showcase yourself in the best light and remind them of what they are missing.

He didnt come back though because he noticed what I was doing, at least he said he didnt (and we did only speak twice in the last 6 months of our separation!).. he was doing the textbook 'inner journey', he said he just gradually came out of that fog of the WAS or MLCer or whatever (he said to me he felt like someone had scooped out all his brains, liquidised them, pummelled it into dough then put it back in upside down). I think thats just life and in some cases, they want you back eventually anyway.

DBing maximises your chances, but will only 'work' if they loved you all along, they just needed to work through their own issues to find that they already had everything they wanted at home (as they say in the Alchemist)

Very well put, as usual, Ali. Dbing is that 'opposite reaction' stuff. It shocks them to see that you aren't having a 'normal' reaction to the breakup. You seem reasonable, confident, a little aloof. Those can all be good things. It's almost like playing hard to get but you're not playing at all.

That's one heck of a description your bf gives of his feelings. He has obviously thought a lot about that.

Hey Mish.. yep, it sure was, he is eloquent at times, but also (like this morning) just says that he cant explain why he did the things he did, but he made a series of "ridiculous" decisions. He says he can remember the events but cannot remember how he felt emotionally at the time, or felt about them.

Sunday morning seems to be the day I ask him stuff. He cried again. So we did manage to arrange a few good nights out with friends this week...one just remarried, but made sure to tell her exH first, out of courtesy and respect, the minute she was engaged. Of course, bf never contacted me when he started seeing Helen and he says he coawrdly couldnt face it. So I told him today I cant square the loving, kind, partner he was before and is again now with that person who could stop all contact with me for months and let me find out from near strangers he had a new gf. He cried and we talked a little about that..

But then he said he DID still feel guilt, and for "everything".. I asked what and he said "for his whole life and especially his Dad".. so we talked a bit about this. He says he is still dealing with his death and guilt toward his Dad. I said it sounded like he was in one of the normal stages of grief/bereavement - guilt, but for some reason he had got stuck there (4 years on). And thats not good for him and I wanted him to know I am aware of this and will help or talk to him about it if he needs to, but its down to him to talk to me or to find some help for himself (I doubt he will yet). Then our "hour" was up and we had a cooked breakfast!

Piecing is hard because not only are you dealing with the aftermath of shock and grief of the S, difficlut feelings of insecurity or jealousy, whatever, to do with any ow, but also, you are still having to deal with all the issues that were always there in the R before all of this happened and with a partner who may not be that emotionally healthy anyway! And maybe I still have a way to go to forgive him.

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

Piecing is hard because not only are you dealing with the aftermath of shock and grief of the S, difficult feelings of insecurity or jealousy, whatever, to do with any ow, but also, you are still having to deal with all the issues that were always there in the R before all of this happened and with a partner who may not be that emotionally healthy anyway! And maybe I still have a way to go to forgive him.

That is very insightful! I think that's why its easier to start a new R than fix an old one. Course, if you don't fix your issues, that one won't be any more successful.

Good for you two for putting all this effort into it! It sounds like, most days, it's paid off a hundredfold.

Heard you had the piggy flu...so does my boy! Hope you are feeling better soon!

Hey, Ali!

I sent you an e-mail to your astral address!

I love your take on how hard piecing can be. It is true that there are still and will continue to be a lot of mountains to climb and the sad fact is you may never be 100% "cured" of your insecurities and such. I'd say that is to be expected however, but w/BF's help, love and understanding, when those insecurities do flare up, they'll be more like hiccups than major issues.

RTL

Ali,

Just read on Kalni's thread that you have Swine Flu!

YUCK!

My little girl has it too, but her doctor said those of us born before 1976 have done a great job in fighting it off, so only the young and the elderly are in big danger when they get it.

I guess getting old has some advantages, right?

Get well soon, Princess!

RTL

Damn!!! Me being a 20 something means I am in danger? That sucks!!

K

Hope you are feeling better! Love your insights and attitude.

hugs, kat

Don't worry at all, Sunshine.

If you get the swine flu, James Bond (aka Sean Connery in his prime or Daniel Craig now - you choose), will come in and wisk you away to where the Brits have the antidote ready and waiting.

You are in the clear, Bond Girl!

Well, luckily the fatality rate is much lower than even the seasonal flu.

Frankly, I wish everyone would quit making such a big deal about it. The media is just creating panic.

That being said, having any flu sucks. Feel better soon!

*sending you a virtual cup of tea*

OK, I am getting worried... Are you OK?
M

Hi everyone, thanks for all your good wishes, I am on the mend now! Rob you are right, its not THAT bad, not as bad as regular proper flu. It felt like instant bronchitis and makes your lungs ache and ribcage feel bruised, so I can imagine how those who are weaker, with lung/breathing problems could get quite ill. BUT.. I felt worse last year with that bronchitis and tonsilitis together so you certainly dont feel like you're dying! Rob, Bobbi, I hope both your kids are ok??

So, I read last week a sentence on Micheal Lutins daily that gave me a sense of foreboding. He said Chiron goes forwards again next week. This represents our 'wounds' - our inner hurt and demons and source of pain and suffering. With it going direct, all should be well, but, as he said "...have you ever looked into the eyes of a clown?".

Theres that theory that clowns (and stand up comedians) are really terrible depressives who are laughing on the outside and dying inside. BF always said to him I knew him better than anyone and summed him up correctly as having "the tears of a clown".

So Chiron went direct just as he confessed (with some prodding from me).. that he IS depressed again, feels negative, discontented etc, but doesnt know why, like he hasnt his whole life, but that its NOT to do with me. What a difference to this time 2 years ago, when he got angry when I suggested he was depressed and it wasnt the R..In fact he thanked me last night for being "his greatest advisor and biggest supporter and thats one of the many reasons I love you so much". He asked for help and finally got the EAP phone number from work (but "couldnt face" ringing it last night, ditto making a doctors appointment). I told him to buy brazil nuts and googled it and discovered selenium works for depression. He was snuggly and quiet last night. He still shows no interest in ML (besides the flu). His mouth is downturned, he cant make decisions and he cant deak with the littlest stressful things which are part of life (letters from the bank etc), so I have to.

My chiron direct coincided with a little voice in my head finally forming a sentence... "I'm not sure I can stay with you for the rest of my life if this is what its going to be like". It got so strong I was afraid I would blurt it out to him. In a moment of clarity I realised this is what it was like for him, back in 2004-2007, dealing with me getting ill alot and being negative and no fun for 2 1/2 years. Its taken me a few months to feel the effects, but he is slower than me to process things. I suddenly felt in his shoes and how he could have felt so fed up, 'snapped' and got to the point of saying to me, as he did at the bomb "I'm not sure we have a future together anymore". Like him leading up to that, I now darent voice any dissatisfaction with him or our R, as he is not well and its not his fault and it would only make him worse.

I suddenly feel like what he said back then wasnt such a wicked thing afterall but a matter of survival of the self. I have noticed I am getting effected - life is a bit depressing living with a depressed person.

This time around though, he is being more honest and he did buy the nuts and says he will make the appointment today and I am not so negative as him, so as Kalni is still saying (hi K!).. "we'll see".

Quote:

I suddenly feel like what he said back then wasnt such a wicked thing afterall but a matter of survival of the self. I have noticed I am getting effected - life is a bit depressing living with a depressed person.

Boy, ain't that the truth!

Like you say, he's being honest and open about the way he is feeling. That is awesome progress. Depression is such a wicked thing. It takes over absolutely everything in your life and makes everything seem dark. I understand the way he is feeling. Depression is a long term problem with no quick fix. I hope he will call the EAP line and talk to someone very soon. They can direct him in ways that you might not be able to since you're too invested in his life. You know, outsiders opinion and all that. You know how therapy works, all you can do is keep encouraging him to seek help without pushing him.

Keep sharing Ali. It's very interesting to hear the progress (and the lack of progress in some ways) and I'm sure you are helping a lot of people here to understand more about their WAS's.

Hey, Princess!

First of all, I'm sorry to hear you are still in bed, but it is good to hear that you're just "sick" and not suffering miserably. You should be passing out of the "heavy" stuff soon.

My D is just fine now, but thanks for asking. She took something like TamaFlu and feels fine now. She stayed out of school for 2 days, but is back now and full of her usual energy.

It is interesting to read what you've discovered about BF and his depression and it is a very positive thing for you to be able to realize and verbalize (to yourself and the DB boards). Getting this out should help you as you continue to move forward as it gives you some clarity and a bit of grounding to keep you protected in case things go south again.

As for BF, I can only hope he gets help for himself b/c until he is better and starts to believe in himself, he'll never be able to be there for you. I'm learning this in my own sitch.

Get rest and feel better.

RTL

Hey, thanks Mish, thanks for rooting for me! I do need to keep posting it seems!
Rob, its such a turnaround and when I look back now, alot of the 'dramas' in our R (like how we didnt get together in 96 but did in 99, my later EA, how we missed out on a house in 2001).. were all linked to his depressive episodes. Of course we didnt know that then, or I didnt, it was only verbalised after he left me.

So he's very down, but after we researched it, he spent �50 on supplements! (5HTP, Folic Acid, B vits, Selenium and Flaxseed/Omega oils).. he's very very committed to solving this. He's been on the Brazil nuts since Thursday and he has some more sport arranged so he may have 4 fixtures a week now. I talked to him briefly about Passionate Marriage and just the theory of being a "differentiated person" may help him to be more his own man.. he asked me to find it and wants to read it with me. Lastly, he DID make the doctors appointment for this week and will ask for blood tests, but.. he is not showing signs of being able to get into any kind of therapy or counselling so far, which is a shame.

He's losing his hair, which we think is stress. Alot has fallen out since we got back together in May (!) and he looks different to when we were in Greece even. He is very upset about this (and me).

So, I'm having a bit of a hard time, but he's really trying this time and is glad I am helping too. He just came to hug me and said "I'm sorry I'm like this, I know its so hard on you and I hate it too.. ", I suggested we play scrabble and he looked pleased at that! So I'm off to do that and between you and me, I am going to let him win... (well, he is a Leo and he's depressed enough without losing on top!!)
xxx

Loosing his hair? Poor man, you make him eat veggies all the time!! No wonder!

Go get him a huge beef steak and lots of chocolate. It does sound ecouranging that he is acting on this now.

I am confident things will be improving...
XXX
K

Hey Al! Hope you are feeling better...the flu stuff is not fun!

Hey Bobbi, K.. I am ok, back at work today!

K, seriously, I have bought him lamb every week since we got back from Greece! From our research it seems he should be on a high protein, low carb diet for depression. I cooked him protein all weekend.

He stopped taking his ADs the day before Greece and his hair has fallen out alot since.. I found one website that made a link between stopping ADs and hair loss. Has anyone here heard of that? I also told him he should get his blood tested, that me and you got depressed when we were anaemic.

This morning I asked bf what the date was (I knew), he calmly said 2nd November, so he has no idea..today is 2 years since the bomb, when he ended it so abrubtly and stuck to it for 18 months. I woke up at 5 am sad and a bit stressed..its been a hard weekend with him sucking everything into a black void. Because he is like this, I can no longer mention anything about the bomb, the past, Helen, our future etc.

I found myself looking at my old threads. Two years ago today, I emailed him, imploring him to seek help for his depression. He didnt reply, but came in the door at 5pm, sat me down and announced

"I dont love you anymore, my feelings have changed for good and I'm leaving you. I love you, but I'm not in love with you, I love you like a mate." He said that he wanted to be on his own, he couldnt explain or give me reasons, other than this was the right thing for him. He said I know its selfish and its the opposite of what you want, but I'm 100% sure this is right for me. I'm absolutely certain. He said he had more confidence now where he didnt have any before. He said that he just wants to "draw a line under it and move on, put the past behind me". When I asked if bereavement had clouded his mind, he said no, quite the opposite, it had given him clarity as "my Dad was unhappy all his life" and that lifes short and makes me realise I'm doing the right thing. He also said he wasnt depressed and isnt going to snap out of it."

..two years on, we are back to 'normal' and his depression dominated our weekend. Lifes wierd isnt it?

Hey Al,
back to that doesnt sound very encouraging, does it? Weirdly, the weekend with H felt like any weekend pre A (not pre bomb because during the affair he was always mad).

But as you have said earlier, we need to guide ourselves beyond those "normal" times because those times brought us here. Your BF seems to be trying to change, accepting there is an issue and fighting it. THAT sounds encouraging...
K

Yes aneamic brought me MAJOR depression. That and a cheating husband.

Princess,

It is very odd how we can be in such steep denial of our thoughts, fears, etc. all the time. Depression is also something that is easier for a woman to admit than a man b/c society has told us males we're to be strong, so to admit being depressed is a sign of weakness.

It is good your BF is moving forward. Too bad you had to spend two years in purgatory to get to this stage, but hopefully things will continue to progress for you both and you'll find the agony was well worth the effort.

RTL
PS - Two things: How are you feeling? How badly did you "let" him beat you?

I don't think that you could honestly escape this. It is something he needs your support to face and deal with and you need to be aware of the signs and how to be encouraging without being a nag about it.

It is difficult but just one more "thing" to bring you closer together. I think you are doing great.

kat

Glad you are feeling better.

Glad BF is being proactive about tackling the depression, at least with vitamins lol. Sorry to hear he is losing his hair, that does also sound like anemia to me, so I hope he's taking iron too lol.

(((HUGS to both of you)))

Hey guys, thanks for your support, i am having a tough time, I didnt sign up for this.. I didnt wait 2 years for this! BUT, its not like I thought he would be fine,considering the state he was in when we were apart!

I have to confess.. I dont fancy him as much with less hair. I like guys with hair, longish, just past the ears (think Mick Jagger circa 1965)..its a real problem for me and although I havent told him, of course, he knows. I am being supportive. He told a MF and his brother who phoned that he was down again. This is amazing, he only just admitted it to me last week. In the past it took him months to tell his friends, not days. I was impressed and told him well done.

We are not having kids anytime soon.. he says he cant think about trying until he gets himself sorted. Sigh. I joked dont forget though I will be 67 next birthday.

He did remember today! We hugged earlier, I said, do you know what today is and he looked very sad and hugged me tighter and said.. yes, I do, of course.. He said he is certainly happier now than that day 2 years ago, then laughed, despite being depressed still.. because of what he knows now that he didnt know then. I kicked him up the bum in mock indignation.. how come yuo didnt know THEN? What, 10 years of knowing me wasnt long enough to figure it out !!???

Maybe it is karma that he is losing his hair-- he made YOUR hair fall out, remember?!

Perhaps once he perks up a bit from the vitamins and such, he will finally feel motivated to go to C. Was vitamin D in there? I can't remember.

Originally Posted By: Andabelle

Maybe it is karma that he is losing his hair-- he made YOUR hair fall out, remember?!

I had to laugh with this one, Andabelle is right!! Sorry Al!
K

Ha, no K that is funny, and very true Andabelle, well remembered! Mines still growing back!

His exczema is all cleared up. I switched all shampoos, soaps, we are eating more veg, less carbs, less alchohol..he is very glad and its a sign he is getting healthier. He seems a bit brighter and really enjoys taking all his supplements! One (the 5HTP) makes him very sleepy within an hour of taking it. I would reccomend it to anyone with depression/anxiety and problems sleeping. I really feel this is going to work. I need to look into other vits, yes like D maybe. He thanked me again last night for all my help.

So he DID remember it was the anniversary of the bomb. After we hugged and acknowledged it, he disappeared for ages. When I went to find him, he had done something he had never done before.. he was sweetly photoshopping and printing off a nice picture of the two of us together on holiday and then framed it. He remembered, I used to say, pre-bomb - how come there were no pictures of us together around the house like other couples have?? (maybe because we never got M!)

So that was pretty touching. He is a love, for all of his flaws!

We dont have pictures together either!!! And funnily, she was making pictures of them everywhere they were, with her hand stretched out to get the angle right!! GRRRRR

Good that things seem to improve. Hang in there!!
K

Quote:

One (the 5HTP) makes him very sleepy within an hour of taking it.

Ali, what is this? I work in a pharmacy and I don't recognise it. I suffer from depression and so am interested in what it is. Hope you don't mind the hijack.

No not at all! So after googling it, for depression, he is taking.. Flaxseed Oil (important to get Omega 3 and 6), B vitamins (important to get B12 and particularly Folate/Folic Acid or B9), Selenium (or found in Brazil nuts, so he is eating 6 a day instead) and 5HTP, which is an amino acid that the body needs to produce Serotonin - hence it being effective for depression: http://www.depression-guide.com/5htp.htm

Although, I need to do more reading as it seems he shouldnt have too much B6 with it, as the liver excretes it otherwise. Tests have shown it to be effective as ADs where the person is AD resistant (as bf was).

Today he is out on a work, he plans to be out all evening..this is the same one as last year where he left early at 7 and met me until 1am. He told me this morning, he didnt tell Helen he was meeting me lat year. He said it with a cheeky face, like, she didnt know, he got away with meeting me on the sly. I told him he was sneaky. It upset me after to think, so you are proud you did that.. which at that time means you were putting her and your R with her above me (as it was the only time he met me in that 6 month period). But, it is what it is, or was.

Wierdly, I work in the same organistation as Helen!! Same Directorate even! But in different sections and offices, thankfully. However, I saw her car at work before I was sure and today.. I juat crossed the road in front of her! I know her car from the photos and her dog, which was in the back. She didnt recognise me. it made my stomach flip over. I felt she looked quite attractive, although a bit un-cool. I just dashed an email off to bf telling him I had seen her and that I feel she is prettier than me. Oh dear! Oh well..

I want to know more about it too please Al. St. John's Wort just isn't working for me anymore.

Well, it comes in different forms, I thikn the basic ingredient is tryptophan, but 5HTP is Hydroxytryptophan, which tryptophan is derived from. It seems you shouldnt have B6 with it. I got it from a good health shop here (regular chemists didnt have it). Its definetly made him sleepy because the one he has comes in a capsule with added Magnesium (also good for brains) and Valerian Root (a natural sleep remedy).

Theres loads of info on the UK Google on 5HTP? Sorry the St Johns Wort isnt working Mish, I thikn it doesnt often (it didnt for me, whereas Bach Flower Remedies did, years ago when I once had clinical depression with panic attacks). We didnt get it for bf as its expensive and seems to only work for some poeple!

You should definetly try Selenium though? 200 mg capsule, or 2-5 Brazil nuts daily xx

I'm going to do just that Ali. I just checked on it and it looks like GNC has it. If anyone is interested, it looks like the US distributor for it is Natrol.

I've read a few pages about it and it as drug interaction warnings and says not to take if you drink any alcohol. Eek. I wonder if my glass of wine or beer in the evening will have to be cut out. It would be worth it though if it works for me. Thanks for the info Ali!

Hey Mish... yes there are alot of contradictions! Like too many brazil nuts a day or over 900mcg of Selenium is classed toxic and a handful of people got some fatal brain thing.. but 200mcg is fine. And yes, says you cant drink within 6 hours of taking 5HTP. BF is very committed to this, we were supposed to go for a drink Sunday night but he said "oh, but then I cant take my tablet!" so we didnt go!

I really need to do some more reading, but a high veg/protein/low carb diet is important too and the other vits and fishoils I mentioned are all for good brain chemistry to beat depression. We can post here and see how he and you get on !

So he replied.. it probably wasnt her, but she is NOT prettier than me and besides, I am beautiful on the inside as well as outside. So that was a good answer! If he could just cheer up a bit, he'd be perfect!

Very interesting stuff! I too did the herbal remedies when I was feeling very depressed the first few months after the bomb. I might do them again this winter as I always find the lack of sunshine a bit depressing, combined with the latest emotions coming with the D finalizing.

Thanks for all the info!

5HTP is not a licensed product in the UK which is why you can't get it from a regular pharmacy. You do need to be careful about interactions with any other prescribed meds you may be on when trying these things - but I am sure going to give the 5HTP a go!!!

No problems Michelle! And Saffie, sorry, I meant highstreet Chemists didnt have it, I needed to go to a more specialist health store as its a bit obscure, being an aminoacid! No, its not a licensed drug, so you cant get it from the Pharmacist. I guess its classed as a foodstuff and not regulated, so whoever is reading - do alot of research and buy a reputable brand. And you definetly cant take it with ADs or SSSI's! Causes 'serotonin syndrome' being too much of it, which sounds like a good thing, but apparently it isnt!

Feel a bit funny today - its bonfire night (big deal to me)..2007, it came a few days after the bomb. He insisted we drove back home to tell EVERYONE it was over and drove me to my Mum's (to think he never even came in, after driving 250 miles and being SO close to my parents, beggars belief). Last year, he went alone with Helen. I found photos of her by the bonfire, wearing his wooley hat and a contented smile.

Eventhough its been going so well, I still struggle. I just emailed him to tell him I feel a wound today because of the past 2 years. He knows. I dont care occsassionally about his guilt. We spoke a bit last night and I said..but I went through so much..and he replied indignantly "What about what I went through!?". I was speechless at that!

Quote:

and he replied indignantly "What about what I went through!?". I was speechless at that!

True though.

You know he was going through his own personal hell at the same time you were. Granted, yours was directly caused by his but it doesn't make his any less, right?

At least he has admitted to being confused and 'out of his mind'. That is enormous.

Ali, I know this is probably going to sound callous, but IMO you need to stop bringing up the past pain...totally. It's nothing more than rehashing the same old stuff now and that is going to drive him further into depression. If he brings it up, talk about it. Just don't bring any of it up yourself anymore. Time to let it all go....completely.

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

I dont care occsassionally about his guilt. We spoke a bit last night and I said..but I went through so much..and he replied indignantly "What about what I went through!?". I was speechless at that!

When you care about someone, you care about their feelings. And I know most of the time you do try to minimize his guilt. But Michelle is right, he went through his own side of hell, you both did. That experience can bond you together, or put you on opposing sides.

Most of the time, it seems to be bonding - you guys seem better than ever.

But sometimes, you put him into the position opposing you. There is still some lingering resentment in that statement.

I know it isn't easy, but you do need to let that go if you don't want it to poison your future. Just MHO.

Ali,

I am further along this process than you. I know my H never actually left, but he did have the A for 18 months and it wasn't good. The healing process goes in cycles from what I have experienced and what I have seen from others. Even to the extent when we wonder sometimes if we should have fought so hard. That's quite normal. Ride out the storm and hang in there. It will get better.

Dates that have stuck in your mind will hurt....and the anniversary of them may hurt for some time. Last time my H was away with OW was on my youngest D's birthday. Birthdays have always been such special occasions in our house and I was pissed enough that H was away on 'business'. To think he was doing what else he was doing drives me insane. Even now, years down the line, when my D gets excited about her birthday and talks about what she wants, I just feel sick.

You have to just weigh up whether it is worth the hurt. I think it is, and I think you do too; it WILL get better. There is always a honeymoon period when you first get back together....and then there is the slog of really mending what was broken. As long as you know why it fell apart - and that you are in a different place now and can cope with the important issues - you will be fine.

((((HUGS))))) for this hard anniversary of bad memories. Write down your bad thoughts, stick them on a large firework rocket, and fire them into the sky, ( hoping the burnt out stick falls on Helen - lol).

Thanks girls, thankyou! Its hard, but usually its great. It still goes in waves, except now they are far apart and more like a ripple. He was so good last night at the fireworks. He held me tightly and kissed me alot, said he was excited to be there and happier than last year.. because he was with ME this year.

I agreed with something Kalni said. My bf is a good man, loyal, family orientated, good with money, never been a womaniser or flirted or eyed up a woman in front of me, lots of integrity. His behaviour was not 'normal', VERY out of character which is why all our friends and family never stopped rooting for us.

When we talk now, its only for 2 minutes, he doesnt want to talk anymore. I agree he went through hell and had a breakdown. But I've been SOOO supportive and forgiving and let so much go, just occasionally..I feel like "what about me??" What about talking about things I want to talk about? He said last night I should, of course express whatever I want to feel to him, but it STILL makes him feel so bad and awful for how he treated me. So 6 months on he is still dealing with guilt over it. One thing I never got to the bottom of, was his interest in her before he left me. Like K, that bothers me most. He said this week, the secret calls on his mobile Sept-Oct 07 were "oh probably just because she called to see how my wrist was". But thats a lie, because it was him calling her on the call log. But yep, another thing to just consign to the past.

Its probably just because HE has let go, moved on, more than a lie. We did get our honeymoon period, he never had any further contact with her, she is zero threat and I am the one that gets to have birthdays, bonfire night, christmas etc (thats another big first, he was away skiing with her last Christmas Day!) and also, like Jack says.. our R is better now than it was before and I am truly grateful that he left me.

So in answer to your question Saffie.. yes...this morning, he made us tea, let the cat in, got back into bed, pullied me to him, arms circling me, head on his shoulder, the cat jumped on top of us purring.. and thats it right there. THAT makes it all worthwhile, a thousand fold.

Quote:

So in answer to your question Saffie.. yes...this morning, he made us tea, let the cat in, got back into bed, pullied me to him, arms circling me, head on his shoulder, the cat jumped on top of us purring.. and thats it right there. THAT makes it all worthwhile, a thousand fold.

Sigh, I'm so happy for you Ali

I know things aren't always easy and the past rears it's ugly head but above is just wonderful to hear!

I think it is worth posting in a journal or somewhere you can see it just to remind yourself what all of this was for. This is the stuff that matters.

kat

I am sorry Ali, I know how stuck one's head can get onto things that hurt badly. Focus on the good, it will... expand

Reading your posts shows me how it SHOULD be, the reassurance, tenderness, intimacy, honesty... Sigh!! Dont forget that...

Your BF is a good man, I met him, I can read people. Let the hurt go. A step a day. Breathe and dream
xxx
M

Ali,

I'll echo the others in saying that BF sounds like a good man w/a pure heart. He is broken and it will take time for his sadness to heal.

I'm so glad to hear your R is much improved over where it was during the past 9 years. That is an example of DBing working in the correct way.

Not only are you different for the better, but he is too.

RTL

Hey guys.. Julia, I knew you would get that scenario and K, I had a feeling you would think, thats how it SHOULD be. I'm sorry, I read your posts on H and I am at a loss...

So I read all your posts and felt determined to just 'let it go...' then last night we were wathching a film and I unfortunately just started crying! I blurted out alot of stuff, how I used to cry driving home after EVERY time I saw him last year, how I recorded his voice on a dictaphone when he called me, just so I could hear his voice when I went to sleep, how I said goodnight every single day in my head, never got over him or stopped missing him etc etc.. he was holding me, when I stopped and looked up, he was crying more than me!!

He said some interesting things. One was that he feels he is "a horrible person" for what he put me through. Of course he isnt and I do recognise this is bad for him to hear. I explained I wasnt trying to hurt, or blame him and that I saw it all in the context of him being not well. Today he turned to me and said.. I love you.. you are my woman, my 'Mrs'. I said, but I'm not quite..he said, well you are to me, I regard you as my wife.

Shame he couldnt back that up with a damn M proposal, but hey ho !!

..so he told me that he realised very early on in their R that it wasnt right with Helen, but he DIDNT WANT TO HAVE TO ADMIT HE WAS WRONG, ot he couldnt admit he had got it wrong.. so stayed with her (for 8 months!). He said, yuo know how I hate to be in the wrong and look foolish. He said, he was being weak at that time and not rational and a "yes man". Once he had embarked on it, it was already too late and he admitted he did find her attractive and they flirted or "had some laughs", but only last summer, not before. Since he volunteered more details, I feel a little depressed about it. Its just hard to imagine, him being intimate with another woman, but like Jack3B says, it IS an R, even if its not a lasting one.

I was also right about a couple of things.. she WAS in a long term R, of a few years. I asked him if she broke up with that guy to be with him and he admitted, yes, I guess. Her bf wanted to move in with her, but she said no because it "freaked her out". She must have really loved my bf because she was trying to get him to move into a house she was buying. He again defended her, saying, I know what others thought of her and said, but she was a nice person, not a bad person and it wasnt her fault, it just wasnt right with her, she wasnt you.. I said I felt sorry for her, for losing him. He agreed, he felt sorry for her too, but because "she got caught up in a car crash 2 years of my life" and that wasnt fair on her.

He also said that last summer (when he had me on a plate and could've come back) that he DID find me attractive.. and that she wasnt AS attractive as me. I asked if he was more intelligent, he snorted, No! More fun? Again, no. Funnier? Definetly not!! So.. why did you choose her other me !? He said, are you asking me to answer how come I didnt make good, rational decisions at that time?? He was unable to. He also said again, it was new, different, that he wanted our breakup to make sense.

K.. if you are reading this, people (especially men, ha!) can act in the most perverse ways. I wouldnt assume ow was a great love as you put it. Helen certainly wasnt and he risked losing me for her.

Quote:

K.. if you are reading this, people (especially men, ha!) can act in the most perverse ways. I wouldnt assume ow was a great love as you put it. Helen certainly wasnt and he risked losing me for her.

I would second that. That was exactly my experience too. It's what a lot of thers have said on the past about their sitch's also.

Quote:

Its just hard to imagine, him being intimate with another woman, but like Jack3B says, it IS an R, even if its not a lasting one.

Ditto that as well. You have to give yourself a lot of space to grieve for that loss of exclusivety and for that change. You shouldn't gloss over it, nor should you let it eat into your soul so it ruins what you have now. You are doing so well at afcing your demons and moving on. IMO NOT dealing with these issues and sweeping them under the metophorical carpet is dangerous. You sound in a good place.....even if it hurts to deal with this stuff.

Saffie,
when/if you have time and the mood, can you come by my thread? I need your insight.
Thanks
K

It is great to hear him opening up and being forth-coming w/you and w/himself. He's making great progress and I can only believe that he'll continue to do so w/his T sessions as well. His depression issues should be able to be attacked as long as he's able to be this open about himself.

Isn't it funny that he'd rather continue down the wrong path rather than admit that he may have screwed up? He deliberately chose to stay w/Helen just so he could justify his decision to leave you and not look foolish.

That sounds exactly like my XW. However, unlike your BF, she's still trying to justify her actions and I'm pretty sure she'll never come around like he has.

RTL

Rob, yes, I was jaw open speechless when he admitted that! I kept thinking - thats exactly what Jody DB coach told me. That the majority of WAS's dont come back, or end it with OP, because they cant or dont want to have to admit they were wrong or had made a mistake. They feel foolish and cant bear the shame. He really is a textbook case! Except he was SO miserable and Helen was so not suited to him, that he had no choice but to admit he had made a mistake.

Thanks Saffie.. you are right, we talked about not 'papering over the cracks' or sweeping things under the carpet.. but, he doenst start these conversations. I like how you put it..the loss of exclusivity. I told him at the weekend I feel she has taken something or has something thats mine and I guess thats what it is, but that I realise its not her fault.

Feeling a bit low. Another weekend of him being quiet. He said he felt happy/contented, but he didnt look it to me. We still dont ML much. He says it ISNT me, that he DOES find me attractive...funny way of showing it! I know he has depression, but I dont see how we can make it longterm if this is how its going to be. He is still being affectionate and loving, but he was pretty snappy at the weekend, so the honeymoon period is over! I know he is stressed, but I feel its unfair he would snap at me at all, after what I've been through.

I think whats really bothering me is the comment he made about considering me his wife and then raising his eyebrows when I said, but I'm not though..? It doesnt look like he has the gumption or enthusiasm for life right now to talk about the future and make plans, including asking me to marry him. I'm hurt and discouraged by that in truth. We've been friends 14 years in January, together (apart from a gap!) for 11 in February and after all we've been through and the love and commitment I've shown him.. he STILL doesnt want to stand up in front of those who love us and marry me??? And I dont want to ask him to marry me.

Quote:

I think whats really bothering me is the comment he made about considering me his wife and then raising his eyebrows when I said, but I'm not though..? It doesnt look like he has the gumption or enthusiasm for life right now to talk about the future and make plans, including asking me to marry him. I'm hurt and discouraged by that in truth. We've been friends 14 years in January, together (apart from a gap!) for 11 in February and after all we've been through and the love and commitment I've shown him.. he STILL doesnt want to stand up in front of those who love us and marry me??? And I dont want to ask him to marry me

I know this is an emotional issue you are discussing here Ali, and I don't want to deviate from it being that really, but you might want to draw to his attention all this stuff in the UK press at the moment about common law partners, and their lack of rights when one of them dies.I know we don't like to think about dying, but being married does proetct us to some extent if your partner dies without making a will.

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I told him at the weekend I feel she has taken something or has something thats mine and I guess thats what it is, but that I realise its not her fault.

Ali, you are so nice. I can't be so forgiving about OW in my sitch. I was so hung up about her after reconciling that she still nearly ruined my M even though as far as my H was concerned she was history. In the end I just had to acknowledge that it was ok to dislike her for her part and for her 'stealing' something she should never have had. I don't know about Helen, but my H's OW knew exactly what she was doing and was out for all she could get; she didn't care who she hurt in the process as long as she was ok, and that included her own very young children who she abandoned to her H!!!

Do you REALLY believe it was not Helen's fault in any way?

Hey Saffie.. that is a great suggestion! We own property and our finances are tangled and both our parents tell us we need to make wills (but we just havent !!) which is daft, I know.

Your sitch was different as he remained in the house and you have kids and OW would have KNOWN that. And yes, what type of woman leaves her own children?? Thats not good is it. I havent got to the bottom of Helen's involvement.. he admitted she was phoning him when we lived together (and some texts, one sent at midnight) and that she flirted with him and later finished with her long term partner for him. BUT, I dont know what he told her, that he lived with me or for how long, or maybe nothing at all until AFTER he had left me? I thikn it is strange she would phone him on his mobile in Aug-Oct 2007 she must've known he lived with me, but I dont think he was chasing her. He was also, very depressed at that time and says now he wasnt interested in her back then. She may well have been him though hey, looking at the evidence.

He says he didnt talk to her about me.. and yet, she told a MF's gf (someone I have now got to know) that she was worried about their R because he cant seem to get over his ex. He was surprised when I told him this after we reconciled (the gf told me that she had acted very odd one day, locked them both in the lounge and asked her what she knew etc).. so I am guessing she DID know about me, before they got together, or before he left me, because he has twice said he didnt really talk to her at all about me when they were together.

My Mum always said she was chasing him.. but who really knows hey???

I dont blame you for not liking her! K's sitch is similiar to yours, I thought of you when I was posting earlier. I am sure it was you (?) that gently reminded me not to demonise the OW. And thats right of course, its not really their fault. My bf wasnt with me when he dated her (although he had led me up the garden path most of that year!) so I guess she wasnt an ow, strictly.

Ali,

I think the marriage thing will come in time from BF. Right now, that would probably push him over the edge. He's crawling back, but that may be too much too soon for him.

If he thinks you are married, give him time then broach the subject w/him. Also, since you two are joined in property, the idea of a will is a good thing to consider getting done.

RTL
PS - What is the web site you get the horoscopes from that you posted to Kalni? I may look to get them for myself as I find them interesting.

Hi Rob.. Priya Kale shes very good !!

So his depression goes up and down and we talk about it. He was very upset that German footballer killed himself, eventhough as he said, he had had lots of counselling. I said, you wouldnt do that would you? He started to say, I do.. (as in I dont think so) but corrected himself to say, no, no I wouldnt. Its very hard being around someone with depression, but he's brighter today and yesterday and makes me laugh alot!

We are at the 6 month mark and I do have moments when I think, if he did leave again it might almost be a relief, if that doesnt sound a little strange. But generally, things are truly great.

He finally went to the GUI clinic today 5 months after I asked him to (booked a day off !) and got the all clear with everything. He made me laugh with tales of what they did to him (involved a long poky stick up a very small hole), but he didnt mind, he said, thats how much I love you. Another little milestone ticked off !

xx

Yay! Lol.

Sounds like what H is about to have done on him soon...

Excuse me for asking but what is a GUI clinik?
K

It is GUM Clinic - Genito-Urinary Medicine Clinic (also known as STD (Sexually Transmitted Disease) clinic or VD (Venereal Disease) clinic.

Thanks Kerry!

DIDNT WANT TO HAVE TO ADMIT HE WAS WRONG

Wonder how much of that has been and is going on in my XW's mind... by the way, women (not just men)are also guilty of doing wacky things...

And I have a confession to make, I also read Priya...only the monthly stuff (it's free) becasue I am too cheap to spring for the weekly stuff.

Hi kids.. yes, its amazing, he said again this weekend, he KNEW it was wrong with Helen very early on, but he just couldnt admit it to himself or anyone. Its exactly what Jody's theory was. She said, in alot of cases, the WAS has too much pride or shame, or whatever to admit that they had made a mistake. My bf said its becuase he hates to look foolish. Seems a shame he put me and us through all that, just to 'save face'.

So we went home for the weekend to stay with his brother and wife. His brother likes to display their photos on random on their big TV..so I was sat there holding the baby and he throws up on me and I cant move..just as a picture of the four of them (my bf, Helen, his brother and wife) flashes up from the skiing holiday last Christmas - the two couples side by side on their ski's, beaming. I shook all over and felt sick but couldnt get up! Everyone noticed I was upset when they came back into the room, so I had to tell bf, who told them and they were MORTIFIED, as was he. They said to me, we are SO sorry, we thought we had deleted all those pictures and have now deleted that one (which was very nice of them, this isnt their fault!)

It was so horrible, only the second photo I have seen of them as a couple together and they sure looked happy. Bf said, its just a snapshot.. you smile for photos. I said, well I dont. There are photos of me from that time and I can assure you, I am not smiling in them, because I was very unhappy...

Of course, he was VERY reassuring, but he doesnt want to talk about her anymore, he pretty much refuses now, said he finds it frustrating and he loves me, its all over and done now, blah blah...

But we got haircuts on Saturday by an award winning hairdresser friend. We asked her to make his look thicker and it looks amazing and he looked very handsome and we DID have a lovely weekend...

I am sorry that happened. That would be a bit of a blow but I am also glad that they all stepped in and apologized and tried to make it better. She/they did happen. Neither of you can change it, just keep moving forward and focus on you.

hugs, kat

Ali,

That must have been a bit of a shock, I'm sure. It is difficult enough to move forward when we are torturing ourselves w/images we put in our minds, but that becomes much worse when we see the real thing.

I'm sorry you had to see that, but all you can do is process the discomfort and move forward. Easier said than done.

As for BF's test, the one that "involved a long poky stick up a very small hole" I've had that one and it isn't comfortable. In fact, I'm pretty sure you would have had a difficult time of splitting my butt cheeks w/dental floss when that cotton swab was being administered. Painful memories I'm glad are in the past.

RTL

Ugh. No fun. That obviously was quite a shock.

Glad they were all so understanding and sympathetic!

Double UGH! I know how that feels. I am haling it with tough methods, I keep going back and I look at the picture of them in bed where they look so damn happy...
UGH
M

She is gone babe, poof!!Vanished, old news...

Thanks guys, yes, it was a shock!!! Imagine. It was a big deal we were staying with them, first time since the before the bomb.. in the same spare bed that he and Helen had stayed in a few times (he took her home for a few weekends, to meet all his friends, his Mum and then again when they did the skiing holiday)..I asked him directly if they had had sex in that bed and he said an emphatic no.

This is what I struggle with, that their relationship was so.. public. He said she met his friends because HE wanted to see them and he didnt want her to come home a few times, but she insisted, or invited herself and he weakly relented. I dont really believe that. Like he said she finished with her bf for him.. but that was apparently in March/April 2008 but he says they didnt get together until early August!?

I am feel wound up about her, wierdly, perhaps jealous? But I cant load it on his depressed shoulders. We barely spoke about the photograph, but he was very supportive. He keeps telling me he loves me.

Last night he told me he felt "sad and unhappy". I was mortified as we were snuggled up having a lovely evening when he said that. How can that be ?? He said, its not to do with me, thats separate, he knows he loves me and is happy to be with me, but doesnt feel happy in himself or his life. That its hard to explain, but thank god for me, in fact "I'd be lost without you". I said I would be lost without him too! That it really wasnt possible to him anymore than I already do. He said that was beautiful. I realised I will always worry his depression will make him leave me again, but when I said that he got very upset and really doesnt like me feeling in any way worried or insecure and that I shouldnt.

So she IS gone, vanished, thank god. But his depression isnt going away (but isnt as bad as 2007-8)

ADs? I dont remember, does he take any?
K

PS You had sex last night????????????

He was taking them, but stopped before we came out to see you! He doesnt want to go back on them yet as he said they didnt work (but he seemed loads better May-July, when we were back together??) he wants to continue with the brazil nuts and supplements and he is very committed to that and hasnt missed a tablet yet.

Yes !! Haha. I asked him again about it and he said he generally doesnt feel 'sexy' so I reminded him that if he ever wakes in the night and does.. just wake me up, its fine. So he did !

TMI !

I think it works because its the least pressure on him, no over thinking it.

Awww, lucky girl. You may never get a full night's sleep again.

kat

Yay!

Yeah, I thought so. You sounded... different, LOL!
K

Lucky ducky!

Nice job on the midnight romp, Princess!

You must be beaming today and the ice is broken, so expect more to come.

RTL

Hahaha, definetly TMI hey. For anyone reading, you shouldnt underestimate your WAS guilt. He told me last night he is paralysed by guilt, he has it by the bucket load, that whenever he starts to think about how he behaved and treated me, well... urghh.. and he started to shudder and said something about not being able to deal with it or handle just how much he hurt me and some of the insane things he did (like stopping all contact with me, sleeping with her etc). I said I had terrible guilt after my EA.

We had finally had a conversation about sex and Helen.. I said something about things I had heard about her and imagining her to be "wild in bed".. he said, "Are you asking me if she was? No. Thats why I was surprised when you told me those things about her" (like she had been promiscious apparently). I also mentioned being worried about comparisons and he said, You are by far better...in ALL ways.

So finally got that one straightened out! But I kept it brief, as above.

This was a small part of the convo, after he said about guilt, we had a long conversation about his relationship with his Dad and all the tremendous guilt her carries around for not being "there for his dad" since his Mum left him when he was 16. About not doing enough for him when he was ill (he did alot though) etc. I said we need to get him some help. He was tearful and said again he would be in a terrible state if it wsant for me and the for being happy to be with me. I dont know where all this guilt is coming from. Its natural for a 16 year old to ignore their parents divorce and go out with friends all the time instead. He is now consumed with guilt about not doing more, since his Dad has died.

But this is what its all about, why he left me in the first place. Its to do with his Mum and Dad and feeling not good enough and like he hates himself. He said when he left me, after the bomb, he didnt know what he was thinking, walking out like that, abanoning me in Cornwall, but at the time he just basically hated himself.

I told him he's stuck in the guilt stage and to phone Cruse (free bereavement service). To be honest, I dont know what to do. As my Counsellor once said, you're not his therapist, you're only his girlfriend.

Ali,
With all due respect to all those who believe in therapy and astrology, I think I would rather believe Priya than a therapist.
I believe we can have feelings of guilt, we can be affected by our childhood in many ways. However, I have difficulty making the connection with feelings of guilt about a parent to actually leaving your spouse. I am guilt ridden so now I will compound my guilt by leaving my spouse and family?
Why is it that we always blame our past (usually our relationship with our parents) for our character flaws? When was the last time you heard anyone give credit to their parents for the person they are and take the blame for their own shortcomings? I have a tendancy to be black and white (some call that cynical) and honestly I do not buy into any of the behaviourial shortcomings of a WAS and their direct relationship to life events. If that were true, we would all be an event away from leaving.....
Having said that, good for you on the middle of the night horizontal tango....now that is my kind of therapy...oink oink!

Hey John, my Mum just said the same thing! (about it being an excuse for leaving and she didnt really buy it). I dont think he is blaming his parents for WHY he left. He has said there were problems in our R that year and also, his depression made him snap and not be able to view our problems as fixable, that he felt very negative and crazy and didnt know what he was thinking. He cant give a reason why he left, or why he dated Helen. I think people 'act out' unconciously when they dont feel happy or good about themselves.

Talking of astrology, my bf has his Sun and Moon in exact sqaure and his moon is at the critical 29th degree of a sign. All pretty dodgy!! To have your Sun (self, ego) squared to your Moon (emotions, inner self, soul).. is not great. Its like he's always 'at odds' with himself. A well known astrologer told me that having his Moon in the last degree, I could probably never really rely on him, he would always 'blow in the wind'. She was right, he has told me that things just seem to happen to him. Like dating Helen!

The guilt thing and shame led him to hate himself and not value himself and that made him run. He said last night its almost like he was self-destructive, sabotaging his own life because he didnt feel he deserved it. Its hard for me to understand, but I guess my bf is what could be called - a little bit f*cked up !!!!

IMO, the past is not a direct cause for our current actions, but the patterns of our behavior is shaped by those events. We need to re-learn how to handle situations and a lot of the time that requires us to do things that don't feel 'normal'. The 'abnormal' feeling response is more than likely the healthy one. KWIM?

That's a great point Mish! But instead, they go with what feels "right". Or at least makes them feel better, temporarily.

$h!tty coping mechanisms. Which I think can be related to unusual stresses early in life, cuz if they never learned to deal with them then, they won't be able to deal with stresses now until they learn how to cope better.

IMHO, the problem with D is that the kids see a lack of commitment. They learn that it's acceptable to leave when things are tough, that families don't actually stick together through the tough times. So, their idea of commitment is a bit dodgy and they believe it's okay to leave too. So, when the stress gets too high, they do. KWIM?

Somewhere in my readings on MLC I came across an article on the net called something like Seratonin, from bliss to despair, by a Dr Carver. It explained how depression effects certain changes in the brain, which lead to ... well, basically, all the symptoms we notice in our WAS. Essentially, when seratonin levels become severely low is the time he characterizes most affairs of happening--and that the brain misfires the worst.

I'm not saying that this excuses the depressed person from having an affair, especially because not all moderately or severely depressed people make that choice. However, I think we have to have compassion for the fact that their brains are not functioning the way they did before some traumatic event (be it the sudden death of a parent or friend, or some trigger to earlier abuse or childhood trauma) occurred, and that they genuinely have not yet developed the skills to take ownership of the chaos in their heads (and to which they contribute).

he was self-destructive, sabotaging his own life because he didnt feel he deserved it. Its hard for me to understand, but I guess my bf is what could be called - a little bit f*cked up !!!!

lmao Ali, that is a great conclusion...actually i can almost understand what he said.....it nmay have afflicted XW as well...
I am trying to understand mish, Michelle and Cyrena as well...S XW did experience some traumatic times....but all that is in the past for me and quite honestly even if I understood it, I still think it boils down to choices. For the record, i had many chances to cheat on my XW...never did....maybe that is because I had a "normal" childhood....or maybe the stars were aligned or maybe I know right from wrong or maybe I am the one who is screwed up.
Bottom line is your guy is back, enjoy each other's company and hope it lasts forever!

John,trust me, you don't want to understand it.....I certainly can't and I'm living it!!

Hey Cyrena, nice to see you back! Thanks for that, thats interesting and as you may have noticed, I always took the compassionate view of how he behaved and saw it in context of his depression.

Mish, I know you understand. I had temporary depression twice in my life and it was horrible (what the doc called "reactive depression"). It IS hard to understand, they call it "living outside the wall". My bf even said last night, he feels like he is behind a wall! Its hard to seek help and believe you can be helped?

Michelle, I agree. My bf's parents got D when he was 16. By age 10 his Mum was having a PA with his Dads best friend.. in THEIR house. His Dad would discreetly go out and leave them together. Super wierd. His Dad went into a pit of despair until the D was settled, then my bf chose to go live with him at 18, to keep him company. I cant imagine what all that turmoil would do to you in your formative years.

John, maybe we are all capable of making bad choices, even with a good childhood! (Like me and my EA). But, my bf grew up with two depressed parents in a fairly business like M (MIL told me she knew walking down the aisle it was a mistake, she didnt love his Dad). She was also domineering and used to hit him alot as a small child because, probably because she was depressed and not coping. EVERYTHING was swept under the carpet. I think you can turn in on yourself in that type of atmosphere and not learn good coping mechanisms or even how to talk and resolve things. Perhaps it was the same for your W?

So we had a drama last night - his BMF in Cornwall told him recently he had an 'email friendship' with Helen. Then last night we invited him to an event and he said he was going anway.. and he was taking Helen!!

My bf got VERY upset about this. He said he felt let down and incredulous his BMF would date his ex, friends dont date each others ex's. That it would make it very awkward to see BMF.

His depression gets worse by the day, he was literally crying in my arms last night. He said he feels behind a wall, he is going inward on himself and that he feels sad, all the time, and doesnt know why. He said perhaps I should find someone else, seeing as he was all this trouble and 'useless'. That he wanted to be a man for me and able to cope and things like this Helen thing really stress him out and he cant cope.

BMF emailed him today to say they arent a couple. Perhaps their date didnt go well afterall! Thats a relief though. I was upset she might be dating BMF, thats one complication we dont need.

I'm at a loss, I wasnt expecting things to get SO bad again. Of course I worry he will leave again but he said he wouldnt. I think he should go back on AD's.

Ouch! That would be a horribly painful thing to hear from your friend that they are dating (or even just seeing as a frind) your ex. Weird.

I agree about the AD's Ali. The natural remedies are great, but they aren't an adequate substitute for all people. He needs therapy....badly. Why won't he go?

Realize that you can't fix him but can support him. I think he really needs to get back to a doctor and on AD's until he can develop some coping techniques. I wish I knew the magic words to get him to go, maybe you do.

hugs, kat

Hi Ali!

I agree that you have always shown understanding and compassion for your BF's depression, and think that has made it easier for you to reconnect with him without huge resentments, etc. I'm happy you've come as far as you have! I worry a bit, though, that his depression leaves too much of the work of the relationship to you: you are left in charge of researching alternative medicines, manage difficult conversations, steer him towards sex, etc etc, and the more depressed he becomes the more he depends upon you. Yet a caretaking role is not the equitable partnership you were looking for.

My H, too, had a childhood marred by his domineering mother's physical and verbal abuse (although he always tried to minimize this and insisted it didn't affect him). It resulted in him having low self-esteem and trying to be a pleaser. The counselling he got while deciding whether to work on our marriage helped him to acknowledge and shake off the effects of this abuse, to set up boundaries with his boss ensuring he puts his family before his work, to stop needing distractions (obsessing about material goods he "needed," drinking too much, listening to the dramas at work and then "rescuing" people), and to stop stuffing his feelings.

While I know it's not your job to get your BF to take counselling, I believe that he requires it to be a good partner to you, and that it is the only effective way of diminishing his depression. I hope you could be successful in encouraging him to go.

Other than that, you sound really good!

I agree with what Cyrena says. You cant do this FOR him, he needs to get help. I hope he starts counceling...
K

What's up Ali? Are you ok?

Hey girls.. well, he DID finally call the number for counselling and left a message, but thats all so far. He cant be bothered because of his depression - its not the phone call or making an appointment, its what comes fter he said (the effort I assume). He's been better since Friday though, because we went home for the weekend and were around old friends. He said socialising makes him feel better (distractions).

Cyrena, wow, I think I said before that your H and my bf sound so alike, with the domineering parent and minimising that affect on him and the people pleasing and low self esteem.

And you are so right! I was doing it for him in our old R, but I have not wanted to do that this time around and only researched supplements etc after he had asked for my help. I also looked for a support group online (after here helped me so much!) for partners of depressed people. One of the first things I read said to state that they need to do more to help themselves. I never did this before, I thought you cant 'tell someone' they have to want to get help. But I do intend to be a bit firmer about this, because I wont ever be getting M or having children at this rate and it is draining on me sometimes.

Hey K! I felt upset yesterday about Helen and about the past 2 years and that I still get a little insecure occasionally. Not because I'm not good enough, or pretty enough, or anything.. just because someone can have that amount of power, to choose to walk out and that was a harsh lesson, as I was totally devastated when he did. It was humbling and humiliating when he left me.

The Helen thing upsets me because its humiliating that she met EVERYONE. She had that status as his new gf. MIL was still being awkward with me up until this weekend. My bf finally confronted it (she practically blanked me Friday and he told her off.. ) she's been super nice since! We have NO idea why its taken her 6 months to get over feeling wierd about me and him being back together (she 'lost' him again I guess).

The other thing that upset me was I filled in a mortgage application and the only box that applied was 'single'. I told him ticking single upset me, but he just hugged me reasuringly. Everythings so normal like the last 2 1/2 years never happened, that I got upset and said why me? Why am I the one that this happened to?? Why am I the lucky one? He said HE was the lucky one, because I waited for him. I said, but why did you come back? He said, "For LOVE, because I love you. What is love afterall? I dont know, all I know is I love you." So he IS committed. Just after the trauma of the past 2 1/2 years and losing that status as his gf to someone else, its important to me to get M and I feel I deserve him to marry me now! Why doesnt he get that?? I even told him at the weekend I wished we were engaged.. he just pulled a sad face!

I think he is planning something and enjoys pulling your chain?
K

Ha.. well his LL is also gift giving (like me, not financial, more thoughtful, loving gestures).. so if he is thinking of it, he'd want to catch me by surprise! If so.. he is a damn good actor though

Christmas is coming.........

[quote Just after the trauma of the past 2 1/2 years and losing that status as his gf to someone else, its important to me to get M and I feel I deserve him to marry me now! Why doesnt he get that?? I even told him at the weekend I wished we were engaged.. he just pulled a sad face!
_________________________
] [/quote]
Ali, just some questions for you-I don't expect you to answer online but for yourself.
Firstly maybe the trip home where he had taken Helen-(regardless of whether he wanted to or not) upset your mood.
How much of the marriage/ children thing is your own personal body clock and how much of it is a deal breaker in your relationship?
Depression takes a long time to overcome and sometimes never goes completely away.You once stated it didn't bother/affect your mood but I am sensing it does-now in the new R.(His depression I mean)
Secondly and this is something I have seen time and time again, children do not cement a relationship, they are often the final nail in a rocky relationship.(I am NOT saying your relationship is rocky) just food for thought.
Don't let a sense of entitlement for a ring and the happy family senorio undo the progress you are making.(I do understand your frustrations and reasoning though)

Are you willing / happy to stay knowing those things are not on the near horizon and may never be or when you both get to that page,your body says sorry no can do?
I guess all the marriage thing was talked about before his leaving and your separation,are his views now different or because of what you endured have your views changed?

No advice, just don't let these feelings fester. This is a huge issue for a woman and certainly one you need answers to,sooner rather than later.
Good luck and I am wishing you well,you have done so well and I am hoping this matter gets resolved soon.

Forgot to add, I would be thrilled to read you get that sparkly ring for Christmas.
All things are possible and nothing is set in stone! pardon the pun.

Hi Naej, thanks for your good wishes! Ah, that could be tricky for him to choose.. we both hate gold jewellery and diamonds and he knows I like hand made unique rings..he probably wouldnt know where to start!

Its actually more him than me, he wants us to have children, but I'm not 100%. Rather than cement our R, one of the reasons I'm not sure I want a family is we are so 'together' and loved up I'm not sure I want to introduce a massive distraction like a child!! So it is a dealbreaker for HIM I fear, but not for me. What concerns me about having kids is I know his depression will never go away completely, so I wonder how he'd cope with the stress and how I'd cope with him and a child.

Yeah, I guess the past 2 years has changed my views alot and I really do want to get M now! So M may be a deal breaker for me, but not children. BUT he may leave me one day if we dont have kids...?

Yeah I have come far havent I? I applaud anyone who gets over an affair or a gf. Theres always reminders, like back home this weekend - his brother may have a new house, but we still stayed in the same spare bed he and Helen shared..its a good job I'm so easy going!! We 'christened' it though, as he put it..

xx

Hi Ali,
I think the idea of an online support group for the spouses of depressed people sounds great, if you can find it. And congrats to your bf on standing up to his mother for you!

I have to agree with what Naej says about children and how they make an unstable relationship much worse--over and over on these boards I've read stories about partners whose marriages drifted apart while their attention was on the children. Personally, I found that first sleepless year when I was exhausted with lack of REM sleep and didn't want to be touched after the incessant neediness of my high-maintenance firstborn, was the beginning of a shift in our relationship that almost ended it.

Still, knowledge is power--if you know all the pitfalls to avoid, your relationship will stand a better chance. If/when marriage talk comes up, though, it would be good to discuss whether/not kids are a dealbreaker before proceeding further....

How long have you been reunited now? Considering it takes 12-24 months to be completely over the disruption to a relationship, you seem to be doing extremely well. Rest assured, over time thoughts of Helen will be far less invasive, will hardly prick you, and the humiliation of knowing that your bf paraded his relationship with her in front of everyone you know will cease to matter.

Perhaps it would be good to set a mental date by which, if he hasn't proposed, you would initiate a frank discussion about his feelings on marriage? Marriage is, after all, a partnership, so leaving all the power of deciding in his hands must make you feel as though you lack agency?

Princess,

Your BF making the phone call is a very good 1st step. Now he needs to follow through. That is the toughest part for him. If he can make it to the first appointment and then to the next two or three, he'll be well on his way and will most likely be sticking around.

The first "ice breaking" session is critical, but the follow up is probably the most important. For you, all you can do is to try and reassure him that you will be there to support him through his therapy. Make sure he realizes there isn't anyone who will love and support him better through all of this than you.

Remember you can't do it for him, but you can clearly let it be known that you're there to pick him up when he falls and reset him on the path his therapy will lay out for him.

RTL

Hey Cyrena, yes.. he finally did!! She has been super nice since, called me twice. Finally, I killed her with kindness and acting as-if. Rob.. he hasnt even spoken to them yet. Sigh!

I had tried not to think that - that having a baby could break our R, but you're right, it could. I do wonder what our dynamic would be. He hasnt mentioned trying though, so its not looking likely! I will be 39 in March, the age my Nan's periods stopped. He does know and I told him I was concerned. He just hugged me.

We had a row last night, our first proper one. I told him I felt he was being a bit selfish. He got annoyed and said maybe he was, but it was better he was honest and said what he felt instead of going along with things. I said of course it was, but in this instance, he said no to a family event that put me in a very awkward position. I said I dont ask him for much, I 'go along with things' and had to get past stuff (like Helen, the beds I've slept in, spending time with his frosty mother etc etc).. all for the sake of the relationship, because I want this to work, also to make life smoother for him and make sure his needs are met, but mainly because I wanted to, because I love him and thats what couples do..they do things for each other at times, its important that he spends time with his mother etc, so I bend and compromise).

I dont know who was right or wrong, but we both felt hurt. I told him I do some things also, because deep down I worry if I dont, he will get annoyed and leave me again. He looked upset and gave me a big hug, but again, just silence back. Later, he said he was upset, because we had words and he hates having cross words with me, that we never did and he hates it. I said it was ok for us to have conflict now and then. Truthfully, I still feel he holds the balance of power in this R, but maybe thats an illusion and just my fear. Afterall, its pretty shocking that someone can up and walk out, but would he really do it again?

Oh well Ali, you can have disagreements and it still be a normal healthy rel. I am sure you have made up by now. Good for you for speaking up,after having done all you can and putting up with "things" ie mil incl. The very least he could do was agree to a family gathering. Did he give any real reason for this?
Maybe he is just not up to it with his depression but he was up for you meeting his friends etc, so that is slightly off kilter.

Quote:

Afterall, its pretty shocking that someone can up and walk out, but would he really do it again?

Ali, you read the boards-need I say more, thats why it is still important that you don't get swallowed up in "his" life, keep doing your own things on occasions until yr relationship truly is a partnership and 2 way street and even then keep it up. A lesson I wished I had learnt sooner.
Bending and compromise is great that's what it is all about but even given his depression he does seem to be rigid.
Don't let fear that he will up and go again stop you from being you. It is early days yet and bound to be in yr mind esp. when you disagree but never let it cripple you so you can't state your needs and wants.
Remember how far you have come.
That would be the kiss of death to you both ever reaching a healthy loving and deep relationship that has lastability.

Princess,

One of the things that I realized in going back to therapy again was I allowed myself to get lost and put on hold while I was trying to deal w/the "issues" G was going through.

When she pulled away, it allowed me - better yet, FORCED me - to re-examine myself and what I was doing. In the end, I'm doing "my" things for me and still having contact w/G.

Regardless of what goes on w/G and I, I'm understanding again that if I lose my sense of "me" and stop doing "my" things, I suffer.

So, naej is correct to say to you to make sure you are still doing your "Ali" things and not just focusing on BF.

Don't allow yourself to get "lost" again after you did so well in finding your true you over the past few years.

RTL

Back-tracking a little...
BMF-- is that Cher's X? If so, didn't he HATE Helen?!

BIG positive:
BF was upset BMF was seeing Helen because of potential awkwardness, NOT because he was jealous. She really is history!

I hope BF gets some help and starts feeling better soon.

How are you doing, Princess? Did you have a good weekend?

RTL

Hey Naej - yes he said himself, he wants us tp have a normal R, so its ok to have conflict, we had some Friday night too! I really really dont think he would up and leave again and he has zero contact with Helen since they split. How lucky am I? Seriously, this stuff is rare, so it freaks me out at times, but I do count my blessings. My sister is staying with us, she noticed the change in him - that he is more firm, doesnt 'people please' so much now and although she thinks the pendelum is slightly the other way right now, its good because she felt he was too repressed before and eager to please and that his evident awareness of all this means the pendulum WILL settle down in time. I agree and am happy with that.

Hey Andabelle, well remembered! Sorry, I meant his 'Cornwall BMF', a guy BF loves, but doesnt see often. Thank goodness he didnt get together with Helen afterall! Helen did make a play for Cher's brother strangely, after her and bf split up. Cornwall IS small place though ! But yes, she is 100%, history.

hey Rob.. well I was always committed to following MY dreams and doing my own thing even to the extent of not paying attention to how my choices impacted on bf, so not doing that so much right now is a bit of 180 for me. For example, I was due to start college in September for a new direction and I declined the place, for the sake of this new R. Financially it would have put a strain on us and I would have been very busy and I just felt it wasnt worth it. I've strived enough and I want to put time into my R now. Its a tricky one as this cant continue, so at some point I need to resume my own path, but be mindful that we are a partnership. So far, I'm still in 'reconciling' mode, but then we were apart 18 months.

I'm grateful for DB guidance these 2 years, because 'regular' counsellors just dont get it. They tell you to respect yourself, get rid, put up boundaries etc.. but noone would ever reconcile if you followed that advice !

I have been thinking about you and wonder how you are doing. Hope all is well.

kat

That's funny kat. I think we must all be on a wavelength or something. I was thinking about Ali this morning too!

Ali, sweetie, how are things going? How's the job? Is it nasty cold in Cornwall or just crisp? I'm always curious about weather....weird huh?

I dropped a note on your FB page.

Hi gilrs, thanks for thinking of me! How are you both? I've had an emotional few weeks!

This time last year bf was with Helen. He was even NC for a month until he phoned me the week before Christmas. We chatted for an hour and he told me he was going skiing for Christmas and reluctantly admitted "with someone else...". Gosh how hard that was to bear back then.

We bought our Christmas tree last night, I started crying in the shop and he was all worried, but I explained its because I am so happy. To be here, now, with him, buying a pine tree (which I love) is amazing, when last year I didnt even have the heart to get one, because he was with her.

So back home he put some Christmas music on but before we could decorate the tree, he grabbed me for a slow dance to Bing Crosby. I nearly cried again! I sent him a message today saying that one little romantic spontaneous dance around the tree meant so much to me, more than all the "I'm sorry's".

I sometimes get nervous because I am so freaked out to be in this position. Its hard to be secure 100% of the time because its so dramatic what happened and so unusual that I got here, back together, happier than ever and totally fine. Its not like we stayed together, whilst he had an A. He just left and 18 months is a long time to be apart and he dated for 8 months. Yet we love each other more than ever and our relationship is better and stronger for it and I am glad he left me. I just wish I had coped better when he left.

My BFF's gf is M with 3 young children. Her H is 43 and last year after the birth of their baby, he quit his job, started an A, left her and moved to London. 18 months on, the A is over and he wants back. She said no, no way, too much damage done especially to the children. She has heard of MLC, but said he has been too selfish and gave no thought to their suffering. I thought, wow, she isnt prepared to forgive him and take him back, even with a long M and 3 children? DBing isnt for everyone, so I do sometimes point out to bf he is lucky that I took him back, lots of woman in my shoes would'nt have!

Pine trees, dancing, Bing Crosby... how romantic.

I'm smiling and feeling warm and fuzzy for you

Sounds perfect to me!

I'm dreaming of a white Christmas for you there in beautiful England Ali.

Thanks girls! It is so special to just BE with him, it makes it all worthwhile.

Its not perfect though, he still has depression. We had our work Christmas parties this week, it was such fun.

So we had a great night out and I was feeling very happy but then we get home and he said, I feel sad... I said, what now?? He said, no all of the time. I said, what about honey?? - He said everything - Everything ?? Yes, I feel sad and unhappy all of the time about everything...I couldnt help ask, what, even our relationship?? He said no, of course not, thats separate, I'm happy about that, but its hard to explain..So I asked him to and he said its like my sadness and unhappiness is in the background all the time, like a backdrop to everything, I am always aware its there, its like having tooth ache for years that never goes away, you know its there in the background but sometimes you are more aware of it than other times.

I felt pretty crushed to here this, its hard to hear.. not only to hear him describe how it is for him, which makes me sad, but also that when I am so happy and enjoying life he feels that way.

Alchohol doesnt help, but he knows that and avoids it more than ever. He is still taking his tablets and exercising, so he is trying. Interestingly, his oldest BMF is badly depressed too right now and in danger of walking out on his W and child and bf is being VERY VERY supportive of him.

Hey ali, could his BMF be bringing him down? Can you put a timeline on all this depression scenario. When did he start feeling this way? Sorry if you already answered this i rarely come to the piecing section (I am envious of you guys... :-)).

Hmm, that's an interesting point. There definitely could be a connection there. Course, BF's been fighting with depression for a long time. But this latest dip might correlate.

Glad to hear things are good otherwise. I am especially glad that he recognizes his depression is not about you.

Al,
I think it is great that is actually TELLING you this instead of keeping it all inside. Maybe the baby will help him realise LIFE is what you make of it.
Hugs
K

Originally Posted By: Kalni

the baby

Huh?

A BABY??????

Did I miss something?????

LOL!!! No guys, I was just talking to Al about what to expect in the future. Trying to stir things up a little bit, LOLOL!!!
Sorry

S

OMG! You knew that was going to get the board flying didn't you K????

Haha. Okay. I was wondering what the hell I had missed. Mean K!

John - Unfortunately he's been like this since I met him at 22! I realise its for life, but it is hard at times. Its not obvious when you meet him though, he's this sociable, chatty, funny sweet guy (right K!?)

It is good he talks to me now about it though and that he KNOWS now I am not the problem. The BMF isnt dragging him down, he genuinely wants to help after having walked in his shoes!

Girls, he said he wants children with me and wants us to start trying. His depression concerns me though. I tried to talk to him to about this last night, but he said he was "too tired" to talk. Besides, he is still not really interested in ML! He said he is very sorry about this and felt "inadequate as a man". He said its because of the way he is (depressed and negative) so doesnt feel s*xy, but to bare with him (?!).

Also, after 'going mad' and leaving me, he feels he is a bad person and hates himself for what he put me through and this weighs on him every single day. So its guilt still, the dreaded guilt factor. He also said its because he worries alot about everything, like work and money. Sheesh, I should make him go live with K's husband, they can be blocked up and celibate together!!

22? Has he seen someone? I am not really in favour of drugs but in this case it seems like a long term thing. I know you referred to some tablets ...thye are not working. You and K do have a lot in common. In piecing with men that are guilt ridden.

Today an Executive here (60yr old) told me he will wait till "my current horse dies" so that I can "ride" him. Sexual harassement or not? (I'm wearing riding boots)...

If it made you uncomfortable, then the answer is yes. It doesn't matter what his intent was but your feelings/take on it. If you didn't say anything at the time, perhaps beter not to just bring it up, but if he says anything inappropriate to you agin, call him on it right then and there. If it continues, time to go to HR.

kat

I just told him he couldnt handle me. I told him they shoot horses when they get old, they dont ride them...

LOL

kat

LOL! Good one K!

Nice!

Funny K! I cant imagine a boss here saying something like that

Feeling a bit down, tired of sensing things and feeling insecure as a consequence. He's been a bit 'distant' this week, well, distant is too strong a word.. I said to him he was a bit aloof and he agreed he was a bit, then said aloof was too strong a word. He said he did feel a bit moody perhaps, but couldnt explain why.

He's still not wanting to ML (he was never like that pre-bomb and pre-breakdown). He says its not me, I'm gorgeous and s*xy and he really doesnt want me to feel worried or insecure at all, it makes him feel worse.. he said he will go to a new doctor and ask about CBT.. he's still taking all his supplements (not ADs).

As loving and reassuring as he has been, I still feel like I am standing on an icefloe.. it looks and feels like solid ground, but it isnt. I did tell him this and he was very reassuring, as always..

Hi Ali, I think you have just got to concentrate on all the good aspects of having what you wanted back again. You did say his depression didn't affect your mood, although I think it must to some degree.
He has had it since he was early twenties I think you said,in all likelyhood he will always have those tendancies but it is just more at the fore at the moment,coupled with all thats happened and this guilt you talk of. You are strong and must just rise above all the "distance" It will get better.
I thought he had gotten some AD's, maybe he needs more than the supplements. I am not an advocate of them but have seen remarkable changes in some people and therefore their lives to know that they can have great results.Maybe worth giving him a nudge.
I loved the icefloe analogy,very poetic. Talking of which it has just started snowing!
Got any party plans or visits that will do you both good,enjoy the season.

Funny that you picked up on the icefloe analogy too naej. I was just thinking that and then read your post.

SNOW! I truly wish it would snow here just for Christmas. That would be so perfect.

Chin up Ali! Enjoy your holidays with BF by your side. When you think back to the trauma you felt last Christmas it will help you to be thankful this year even though things aren't quite 'normal' yet.

Merry Christmas!

Hey ladies! Thanks for your support. I do feel blessed to be back in this position and never fail to make the most of it! Like last night, he was having a drink with BMF and I was Christmas shopping but ran humming through the streets to meet him and planted lots of kisses on him when I did (which he liked!)

Neaj you're right, if he's sad or down it doesnt make me sad or down.. but lately, he's been a little different, a bit of a far away look in his eye. After the way he left me in 2007 because of his depression, I cant help feel a bit insecure, which gets me down. He said I have no reason to worry anymore, but as I explained to him.. he was like this BEFORE he left me, a little 'gone' in the eyes.

He was on AD's for 18 months, but he said they made no difference, so he stopped taking them. The supplements do seem to have made him a bit more positive and exercise definetly helps.

Yes Mish, my Mum just said she could almost pinch herself.. to think this time last year he was about to go off skiing with Helen and look at us now!!!(we were discussing how to conceive).

I think he is still getting over his breakdown and isnt his old self yet and yes, has tremendendous guilt about how he behaved, which was pretty bad hey, dumping me on a sixpence like that! Twice!!

So last night he said he is sad and unhappy all the time. He knows he has everything to be glad about, but he feels no enjoyment. He appreciates me, our life together and everything I do for him, but he cant feel it and knows he should appreciate it more. He said he has negative thoughts all the time and you cant tell what thoughts other people have, but he feels there is something wrong with him, that he is a lunatic.

He said he doesnt want to ML, not at all. He cant explain why. He said he loves me and wants to be with me, his unhappiness isnt to do with me. He said he clings onto his feelings for me like a lifeline, I am his focal point. He said he feels like there is something in his head, a block, like he wishes someone could just unlock or unblock it..I got the impression theres more to it but he wont open up.

I never wanted to be a rescuer, but I gave in and booked him a doctors appointment tonight. I also arranged counselling for us in Jan (and then we can see her separately if thats advised). I need help with this.

Sigh.

It is hard to admit that you can't fix this on your own. He does need help and kudos to you for booking the appointment. I think when you get where he is you don't always see the way in to the light of day, just more gloom.

I think whatever meds he was on before just weren't right for him, they can try different combinations and doses until they find the one that works. I know he has a long road ahead and I am sure that he is very grateful and even glad that you are on his side.

hugs, kat

So, there you have it: Helen, the break up, the distance, everything. He is miserable, has been for a while, thought that if he would change you, he would be happy.
Sorry, it doenst work this way...

And i have read somewhere that when they do come back and realise the situation is worse because on top of their issues, they created issues to the one they loved, they REALLY fall in despair.

He needs to click out of it. He needs help. He is lucky he has you around. I think you did a good job arranging the apt. It's not recsuing him, he probably feels too depressed to do it on his own.

You know how to reach me if you want...
Stay strong Al, he is worth it, right?
K

Hey Ali, I have to hand it to you for sticking it out. It is not easy living with depression and not easy living with someone who is depressed. Cudos to you for booking the apt. We should all be so lucky to have spouses that stick around through thick or thin instead of running at the first sign of trouble.

I am so proud of you for stepping up and getting that appointment set for bf. K is right, he's probably too depressed to help himself. You aren't doing it for him, but you are nudging him in the right direction.

I've said it before, pills aren't always the answer. There are cases I have seen though that were like night and day when meds were involved. I have personally watched someone who was so despondent that they were ready to kill themselves. Within 1 month of his doctor finding the right combination of meds he was fully participating in life and had found a new purpose. It was nothing short of miraculous.

I'm hoping and praying that this will be beneficial to you both.

Good for you Ali,b/f really does need medical intervention now. Your love and devotion just isn't enough.
I think others have said many times (not just on your thread) that the secret of success with AD's is finding the one that works for you and at the right level.
So the sooner he starts the sooner they can find the one that is appropriate for him and that is good for you both-yes?
For your sake I hope they find the best combo sooner rather than later,it will take time but this will be the first step in the right direction.
You are going to need all the patience you can muster and then some, but I have a feeling you can do this.
As long as he is willing to get the help good for you for taking the step to getting it for him.
Take care of you as well.

Thanks everyone. As if all this hasn't been hard enough hey!! I cant even mention the past, or Helen or my hurts, or fears, or lean on him at all about things now, he is so depressed. He was going to register with this new doctor..6 months ago! So I did it for him. I want him to be HONEST and yes ask for CBT and ADs. Thats a good point guys, he was on Fluoxetine before but he could try another type?

He texted back to say he was so grateful I booked it because he was tearful at work and struggling. Then he phoned and was upset and said he feels SOOO negative, about everything and about himself. I said.. you feel like a bad person don't you? He said I do.. and started crying! So he is very low again.

I arranged MC because its free through work and I need help being in an R with a depressed person and inevitable insecurites (yes Jon, its hard to hear your partner say they love you but cant feel anything!) and he needs help opening up to me. I also rang for an acupuncturist recommendation, as I think he needs acupuncture to �unblock� him (he used to enjoy going).

Yes he�s worth it! and its nice you all think he is lucky to have me! K that�s interesting..they fall into a pit of despair. So this is all a textbook path hey??

Great idea on the acupuncture. I've done acupressure but never got up the nerve to allow the puncture!

Also, good idea to learn how to be in R with a depressed person who can't be supportive of you because they are so hurt themselves.

Good for you for being proactive!

Yes, Ali It's textbook damn it!. I wish we knew all that 2 years ago. I would sit back and wait for him while living my life as a crazy single !!!

DR has a chapter on depression. I think it is time to re-read it Ali!
K

Thanks everyone and yes K.. if only we had just relaxed and had some fun instead of all that angst !!! I wish I could tell teh newcomers, but of course you cant, we had to go through it right?

So he agreed the doctor was lovely and brilliant, the doc said to him "we can beat this!" and gave him a different AD and a referral to the counselling service (they will assess which type he needs).

This morning I got a little tearful.. around the time a year ago today he phoned me in the morning and admitted he was going skiing with Helen for christmas week. I asked him if he felt better or worse than a year ago... he said about the same, but he wasnt pretending or glazing over it as he was back then. It wasnt an emphatic answer, but he agreed ths feels a better situation and feels RIGHT and that didnt a year ago. Thats the best I can hope for right now! We are getting his tablets shortly then I suggested we drive to the Eden project for their Christmas fair and ice skating.

I hope things get better after he is on these tablets, I intuitively felt end Feb early March for progress (maybe trying for a baby!) and that coincides with Mars going forwards. He told me he cant have sex anymore the day Mars started going backwards! Goes forwards again March 10th, on my birthday. He had already said a few weeks ago that he would get me pregnant on my birthday. Wierd huh.

How strange! You two are seriously in tune to your stars aren't you? These things can not be coincidence.

I hope you have fun at the fair! Ice skating is so fun, but I spend more time sitting on the ice than gliding on it.

Very interesting stars!

Hey everyone, I'm thinking of you all over Christmas and thanks to everyone for all their help this year, wow what a difference a year makes for us all.

So he started on his ADs. He's being very loving becuase he just wants hugs and snuggles (he held me all last night whilst we wrapped presents and watched comedies) so theres definite upsides to his depression !

I was a bit firmer with him on the ML. I asked him about work, socialising.. he explained he makes himself do thins that he knows is good for him, so he makes an effort so I pointed out he said that he wanted to show me love and it was vital to our new R that we keep connecting and DO ML, so he needed to make an effort with that too instead of just saying, I cant. He got it and agreed, so that was good.

He said he doesnt understand why people bother with him, I said everyone loves him but he said only because they see what I show them, not the real me.., and went on to say he doesnt like himself, not AT ALL. I've never heard him say that before. He said he is consumed with guilt (over me and his Dad etc) and hates himself for things he has done. I got him to give me some examples and whilst they were a little valid, he cant take 100% responsibility for those examples, its not all his doing. I really hope this new honesty and tearfulness is some sort of bottom and the start of him feeling better about himself and able to enjoy life!

Hey Ali, thanks for dropping by and the kind words. I think that you have hit the nail on the head several times and have been far more elequent than I. I am glad to throw my support your way.

I think now that your BF is seeing a doctor he just might be on the path into the light. When you are so depressed it is hard to see the joy in even the little things. It does sound as if this DR is willing to work with him until he gets him on the right stuff to help.

I am so glad that things are working out for you both. Merry Christmas and know that you are always welcome to stop by.

blessings and hugs, kat

Merry Christmas Ali. How was the ice skating?

It's good that BF is back on AD and they seem to be helping. Maybe as he starts to feel better about himself, ML will happen for the two of you. It's a good sign that you're talking about it. My H has also been consumed by guilt. He just doesn't understand how he could have done what he did. He says every day he thinks about how he's hurt me and this pains him greatly.

Kat - thansks and back at ya! Mish, we never made it skating, he was 'too tired' (depressed) but he IS alot brighter...he keeps telling me he loves me today ! I have been googling how to get pregnant..

Wow, Addie thats the same as bf. BF said to me he cannot believe how he acted and wishes he's never ever dated Helen, not even for a day and that he hates himself every single day for the hurt he caused me.. I talked to him a while back about what it was like for me those first few days/weeks when he left after the bomb and went NC, but he cannot handle hearing about it... this was before his depression got very bad and of course I cannot mention a thing these days, but even then he was just so consumed with guilt. Its wierd its like they really are a different person back then and find it hard to associate themselves with the person they were then and the decisions they made.

I'm trying to sleep (been ill with tracheatis!!) but coudnt and now I have ovulation pain! Anyone know if you get that before or after you ovulate!? I plan to jump him tommorow

as I read that you remain fertile 24 hours after. Tommorow is Christmas Eve and also, the massively auspicious (particularly for us Pisceans) and rare conjunction of Jupiter, Neptune (our ruling planets) and planet of healing, Chiron. It seems like a good day to start trying for a baby ! Its something he really wants, despite the depression.

You get the pain right about the time of ovulation. I had fertility issues and had to take fertility drugs with the first three. Number 4 is a gift from my grandmother!(I will explain later if you want).

Ask me anything you want and I will try to help. some of the stuff may freak out the guys so you can always contact me on Fb or e-mail me. Just so you know I helped 3 others look for fretility signs and they got pregnant shortly after. Just need to know what to look for!

kat

Quote:

I have been googling how to get pregnant..

Well, if you have to read about how it's done I think you're doing it wrong!

Kidding of course, couldn't resist.

It's so amazing that he wants a baby even though he's depressed. Of course, having something (someone) else to focus on may be just what he needs to get out of his head. A baby is a joyous gift!!!

Listen to kat! She has been through so much to have her children so she's well aware of the 'tricks' and signs.

Kat - I SO want to hear about the gift from your grandmother. That was quite a tease!

I know that not everyone believes in this stuff but here goes. My grandmother and I, though not blood related, were kindred spirits. We adored each other and our bond was very special. I found out she had cancer when I was pregnant with D11. She told me she was holding on to see the baby (I didn't find out until later that she told each of her kids a slightly different tale...waiting for one more birthday, one more Chrismas and so on).

I was scared to have the baby thinking I would lose my grandmother soon after. Gladly she got to hold her great-granddaughter and lived almost another year. When she passed I was devasted and would go to her grave to speak with her. Often I would cry and ask her to come back to me.

As I mentioned I needed fertility drugs for each of my first 3. She passed just before D11's first birthday(which she happens to share with my youngest aunt...another bond with Grandma). Anyway I was feeling awful right at Chrismas time. I felt dizzy and as if a flu was coming on. Took all sorts of cold meds. I didn't even realize until January that I was late. It seems as if my Grandmother sent a bit of herself to me so I wouldn't miss her so much. Even when they did the first sonogram(an internal one) they thought there might be twins. I was saying oh, no! I forgot Granma was a twin. I just wanted her back, not Uncle Gene too!!

I was due one month after my birthday. However I asked God for a sign. If this was Grandma coming back could she come on her wedding anniversary, just 2 weeks after my birthday? Went I went to the Dr., he said I wouldn't make it to the weekend even. He was on call the next day and wanted to deliver her. I asked if we couldn't maybe wait one more day as that would have been the anniversary. He said it was up to me. So she is one day off but I think I would have had her all on my own close to then anyway as I was 5cm when I went to the hospital that day. So as far as I am concearned, I have a bit of Grandma with me in D9.

Sorry for the hijack Ali.

kat

Ali,

Quote:

I have been googling how to get pregnant..

I don't really need to explain this, do I???

I'm glad BF went to the dr. about meds and C. He's got a long road, but he's being pro-active about it. The toughest thing will be for him to continue once he's challenged by his C (and you've both got to be praying that he'll hook up w/ a C that will challenge him regularly or else he'll just have some dullard who tells him what he wants to hear...very counter-productive).

I hope you enjoyed your Christmas and are snuggling (and hopefully more...) this weekend.

RTL
PS - Thank you for your FB replies. They mean more to me than I can express and I look forward to seeing them from you and K.

Hope your Christmas was magical Ali!!

What a fabulous story kat! Very special.

Any luck on the baby yet Al? LOLOL
S

Princess!

Thank you for the FB reply! What I needed. Thanks!!! I have more to update on, but for now, that is what I needed answered.

I'm busy this week, so I won't be doing much FBing for a few days, but I'll keep both you and M posted, my friend.

So...are you going to answer the question? How's the baby-making coming? I used to REALLY like the "practice" sessions.

RTL

Hey guys! Kat, thankyou for offering to help, I know where you are if I need you and that was a beautiful story!

Hi Mish, K, Rob...Well I didnt say anything to him about the auspicious stars, but he decided we would start trying anyway! I then went into a bit of a fearful what-have-we-done? meltdown! I told him I felt scared and anxious...how would we cope, do we really want to spend the next 10-15 years caring for someone else, not being able to jet off to Greece for 2 weeks for example, not being able to lie in bed drinking tea (as we just have till 11 am !).. he was very calm and wasnt scared at all. I said, but what if I am pregnant!? He said it would be amazing and that we would be fine and I would be a brilliant mother.

I'm calmer now.. it could take a year to get pregnant or I could be already! We actually havent fully discussed it. After he left and a 2 year gap effectively in our R and my age, it was just decided that the time was now, we had been planning to M and have kids before he left anyway. I would have preferred him to ask me to M him first, but a child is a greater commitment and I am not a conventional person so its ok.

I'll know by mid Jan whether or not I am pregnant (around the time Mercury goes forwards in mid Jan/the solar eclipse (in my house of marriage!) on 15th...

Slightly scared Al x

Scared but excited too??

Enjoy the practice!

We can "walk" you thru the process!!! LOL!!

Hey Al,

Here in the US they have little ovulation tests. I bet they have them over there, too. They are sold right next to the pregnancy tests and look the same...

I bought them when trying for Sydney (3). You get about 7 of them in a pack. Around the time you think you should be fertile, you pee on the stick. It shows a line if you are ovulating...then it is 'go' time!

If not, try again the next day...

Worked like a charm!

I asked my pendulum a cetain question with you in mind... I can't wait to see if the answers match.

kat

What's a pendulum??? What am I missing? Now that I'm thinking about it I think I remember you referencing that some time back and now I forget what it is. Share please!

A Pendulum is, in my case a thin chain with a crystal sphere. You have to believe in your higher self and that you contact your spirit guides. I was really blown away by what is happening with it and I just got it. It would be swinging like crazy and as soon as I thanked it for the response it would go back to being still.

I did ask questions that I knew I would get different responses on so that eveything wasn't just a yes answer. Pretty amazing stuff. Oh and to clarify, I am not moving it in anyway, I just focus on my question.

kat

Happy New Year Ali!!

blessings, kat

Happy New Year Ali!

Ali,

From experience I learned there is never a perfect time for kids. Everything just seems to work out if two people want to be parents.

As for the doing things alone, yes, that will definitely change, but as long as you to keep "dating" each other and keep that end alive, the kids don't get in the way. In fact, it makes things a bit more exciting if you have to "slip in a quickie" while the kids are safely distracted elsewhere.

RTL

Happy New Year Ali!

Happy New Year everyone! Thanks for all your thoughts, advice, wishes.. Kat I know what that is,it can give you an answer (not my arena, I only know astrological timings!) but you can FB me your thoughts, I'd love to hear them.

So with Mercury going backwards, I'm not sure what will happen with children but bf was very sweet and huggy this am, I was talking to him about how we 'lost ground' (with the S and then his depression).. that even if one were possible (abnormalities/complications aside) I didnt know about two. And that if it didnt happen for us, I worried he would one day leave me as he wants kids. He emphatically told me he was never ever leaving me and that he wanted me more than kids. Phew !

I did a bit more research, seems a positive metal attitude is the key thing for conceiving a healthy child.. like most things hey! You've got to believe it is possible (struggling with that).

So Mercury (ruler of communications, phone calls, messages the internet etc) is going BACKWARDS right now, returning, revisting, re-, ie about the past. I have been asking bf for the phone bill details for months.. we have been getting our joint bills/logins shared again since i moved back in and this is the last thing I couldnt access.

I suspect its because he knew the back catalogue of phonecalls are all listed.. he just sent me the password and sure enough I searched and found phonecalls to her pre May.. lots, every other day and it made my stomach turn over and feel sick.. then I realised how stupid that was.He was in an R with her, so why get worked up that he phoned her! Interesting though, I see all the calls from the past when Mercury is retrograde (nerd!)

Still, it was upsetting to see her numbers pop up so frequently. Most of the calls would have been on his mobile to her and I dont have access to his bills. A tiny part of me still worries occasionally, but I can honestly say I DO trust him completely again.

PMA is definitely required for conception. I can't tell you the number of women I know personally who had trouble conceiving only to give up and then get pregnant without effort within a couple of months. The stress of actually 'trying' seems to stop something. I guess that's why so many babies are conceived on prom night in the back seat of a Chevy! Ok, that was bad....

You are moving ahead nicely and I'm so happy to see it. When does bf have another appt w/the dr.?

I actually know two people who adopted because they were having difficulties, then got pregnant with their "second" child after the adoption. They weren't "trying" anymore. They weren't stressed about it. And so it happened.

Which actually segues into another thought, you two could always have one of your own, then if you start menopause adopt a second. There are so many babies out there who could use a pair of loving people like you two.

(((Ali)))

Happy 2010!

I was thinking of adopting a third child !!!!!!!!!! Just a thought though cause I couldnt pull it through right now. Kids need stable parents and I am far from being stable or sane...

Anyway, quit trying and start enjoying!
K

Hey Mish, thanks! His appointment is Monday. He's been a lot brighter just lately actually, thankfully.

Michelle, K! We'd love to adopt..but I dont know whether we would be acceptable to adopt in the UK, with his depression and my debts !?? Maybe we could aim to adopt a second, 1 baby would be a blessing at my age!

I've been nosing through the phone bill records and he was calling her most days, for a minute or two (to make arrangements? Why does that hurt even now!?) interestingly, often on Saturday late mornings, Sunday afternoons.. so I was right they really didnt spend alot of time together and not all weekend. He said they didnt.

and.. he phoned her briefly on my birthday, but he didnt phone me. Why does that hurt so much!? Feeling a bit aggrieved today.. I think I will tell him later. Plus there are still 3 large format photos here she gave him, one of them hugging. He doesnt realise they are still in the house. I think he should get rid of them?

I think you should let him get rid of them when he is ready to. Somethings need to be on his time line. You may mention seeing them and asking if he didn't mind putting them away. It would be like him asking you to toss every photo of you and past boyfriends or friends he didn't like. The past in this sense has nothing to do with him or you.

I also would quit looking for things like when he called her. Ali, it is over. Quit dredging it up. I adore you and hate the idea of you hurting yourself like this. I am sure it doesn't help BF either. He is with you now. He didn't cheat, he dated someone whilst you weren't together, period. Let it go.

hugs, kat

Hey Kat! Did you FB me ?

I agree, I would never ask him to bin them and he does have photos of exgf's here. I have already told him I'd seen them, but it was his choice and he said he didnt want to keep anything so I think he has just forgotton they're there.. but as she intersected our R and is NOT just a past gf, it would be helpful if he did get rid of them?

As for the nosing.. its just that, nosing ! I meant I was feeling aggrieved about the photos, what with the babymaking going on is all. I had a little moment of jealousy about it today, just because the one large photo was a 'special occassion' one of her in a frock and heels made up looking very pretty and holding a champagne glass up. He didnt take it, he said she just gave it to him early on (she basically wanted him to have a photo of her looking knockout, wierd huh!?) So I dont really want it in my house, its ok for me to just say that isnt it!?? He didnt like me keeping photos of my EA OM, although he too said it was my choice.

oh and he didnt just date her when we were apart.. he met her at work in 2007 and by summer was sneaking out of the house to phone her on his mobile whilst we were very much living together and in a committed R ! I never got to the bottom of that one.. all he said since piecing was she was phoning him, to ask about his broken wrist, because they had become friendly at work...so he lied to me basically. I let that go though.

...He also was working with her 1:1 from May 2007, but besides chatting about all his workmates, he had never ever mentioned her name to me. A sure sign of guilty innapropriate feelings! She had a bf until April 08 though, I always felt intuitively that he DID fancy her summer 07 and that spurred him on to leave me (the only reason he gave me was 'noticing other girls now and thats not right'), but she was attached he didnt run off with her then. And funny coincidence they then started dating huh? He since admitted to me she finished with her bf for him!

So shes not just an exgf, she was the catalyst for him leaving, if that makes sense why I want the photos gone

I did FB you. Just a quick little note really. I get that all of this hurts, I am just suggesting maybe to stop looking for reasons to hurt. Ask him if he wants to keep the photo and if he does just ask that he put it away, if he doesn't want it, toss it.

I just want you to stop hurting. Life is hard enough without bringing extra trouble to the table. Ok, maybe since I got on to your thread a tad later in the game I didn't get that he snuck out to call her. However, I think it is great that he lets you check his phone but don't look past the last day or so? That is where the hurt comes.

My ex's first affair was before cell phones and I was a flight attendant so I was gone a lot. Perfect storm I know. We never dealt with a lot of those issues and I think they festered and bam!! Who knows he may have been cheating all along but why hurt myself more trying to find out? It is over and I am working on being a healthy, whole person so that I may be fortuanate enough to receive the love I give.

hugs, kat

Yeah you're right Kat... I'm pretty good at letting stuff go (maybe on account of my crap memory, ha!). I only know he phoned her back in 2007 pre-bomb cos I snooped on his cell. Today I was looking through old bills on our now joint home phone account. Of course the last ever call to her was 6 May (I think he ended it the next day)..

I know you didnt get the early info, I had actually forgotton myself lately! It was a textbook sitch I suppose, got the 8/9 year itch and met a woman at work who laughed at all his jokes...lucky for me she turned out to be a lousy gf.

Wow, so you were a flight attendant? Glamorous! But yes, I guess you were out of town alot. Funny, men cant get away with A's so easily in this day and age with all the technology!

Silly me, huh? His first affair lasted 2 years, right after we got married. Said he was lonely but would never hurt me like that again. Right.

Maybe that is part of the reason I hung in there, knowing he had been in a long term affair before but stayed with me, that he would do it again. Sounds like I am an idiot when I say it that way. lol

kat

No, you just were committed to your M, your kids, your H. That's a good quality honey.

You are allowed to be silly in other ways though.

Thanks Michelle! Hey Ali, sent you a message and gave you a tip. Hope it helps.

kat

Thanks Kat.. and yes dont beat yourself up for decisions taken in good faith, if you had stayed together, you wouldnt be kicking yourself now.

Had a fantastic appointment with the doctor. He got my dilemma (age, early menopause on mothers side) is going to run tests as a precaution and said he would put down that we had been trying for over a year so we tick all the boxes in case we need to be referred to the fertility clinic. I was so pleased!! You get free fertility help (inc one free IVF I think) in the UK, but you have to have been trying for ages. So, we have backup if we need it.

I spoke to bf about the phonebill, just it was funny to see the calls, he just said he was sorry, smiled and kissed me. No drama!

Hope the info I gave helps. If not we can look at the tempature side of it.

Thanks for your kindness. kat

WOW! Free fertility treatments? Holy cow!!!!!!!!! They run at up to $20,000 per treatment here depending on the method used. That is marvelous. There is a little something to be said for social medicine. I'd be happy to just see a regular doctor once a year if I didn't have to pay through the nose for it. One visit to my general practitioner is a $125 office visit plus lab costs ranging from $100-300 depending on what needs to be run. CRAZY!

Gosh Mish, thats mental! $20,000!? And $300 a test!? Go Obama though hey, he's trying to change all that. My doctor is running thyroid and kidney liver, FSH (hormones), full bloods and std tests...and referred bf to the hospital for a sperm count (oh dear, better warn him later!!) all free of course and I didnt even ask for it!

Then we can see the fertility consultants free and I am sure you can go into hospital for some medical tests/intervention free on the NHS, but if that fails, you have to pay (�10-15k then). Its good to be British! Although, I would prefer to be Scandinavian because they get even better welfare benefits there I believe.

It really is crazy. Of course, if we go to social med it still won't cover 'unnecessary' procedures. Fertility is not necessary so it won't be covered. Heck, most regular insurance doesn't cover birth control but they cover Viagra! Go figure. They'll help men get it up, but won't help women deal with the consequences of it.

Ya know, I was thinking similar things when I was reading Ali's post!

Most people I know who live in areas with socialized medicine complain about the number of things that aren't covered and how long it takes to get treatment. I have a friend who flies his wife to the US about 4-5 times a year for medical treatment because Holland has a 9 month waiting list for her treatments. He's pissed that we're changing the insurance system cuz now he's worried he might have to find someplace else to get her care.

My friend's uncle had to wait 6 months to have a surgery because it wasn't life threatening. So he was off work for 6 months, waiting.

But you can get fertility treatments so that the population can continue to go up so the waiting lists for care get longer. Ain't that irony? LMAO

My regular insurance only covered my birth control at the normal prescription rate. So when I had a break in insurance I went to Planned Parenthood and they gave me a 1 yr supply for free. Thank goodness for clinics!

Oh ha! Well its free medicine for all (not dental/opticians anymore, but used to be) and that includes all ops.. yes, there are waiting lists, but we are free to also take out private health care insurance alongside NHS (lots of companies offer it as a benefit in good jobs) and then you can use the NHS for regular stuff and be seen the next day by a private hospital if you need to or want to avoid the NHS queues. I dont have it, but from my Dads experience, private healthcare IS better, but expensive of course. So great if you can afford it of course, like the US. BUT.. meanwhile, 62+ million people get 24 hour free care !

See, that's the problem....we can't afford it. I can't afford to pay the premiums on the insurance so I don't have any. The social system isn't going to be any better, I guarantee it.

I know in Scandinavia they do have a socialistic democracy. The people are well taken care of. The people are fairly well off as a whole but they do pay high taxes for the government to take of their own. Americans are a bit too me, me, me for this to really work here. Maybe we just aren't evolved enough as a society.

kat

Yes its so expensive there isnt it, my sister didnt have it in the US Mish and I really worried for her! (she has some basic cover now). People cant afford the premiums here either, I dont know anyone that has privte health insurance (apart from my Dad as he was an Executive at the company for 15+ years). And you cant get maternity care, or oncology treatment private here, so cancer truly is a great leveller.

Told bf about the sperm test.. he looked shocked, then said ok, I'll do it and smiled. Bless him!

Oh yeah, because men have such a difficult time with their part of the tests.....

There is no private maternity or oncology there? I guess I understand the oncology because it would seem that those with money have a better chance at life and those who don't are 'stuck' with the public care. But why no private maternity?

Good luck Ali, hope things work out for you, but just wanted to say you can get private maternity cover, although there are not too many private maternity hospitals (you can get a private room and other perks paid for) plus the same for oncology. Maybe some insurers don't offer these things as standard but it can be got.
Private health care offers lots of different levels of care and costs vary accordingly.You just have to search around.
I still think we have one of the best health care systems in the world, dispite its failings.

You dont want to know how much it costs to have a baby here!! IVF (you call it) just got covered by the State, we are a dying nation...
Does he ever tell you no to anything? LOL!
K

Hi Naej, ah so like most things then, you get what you pay for hey! Are you snowed in? We finally got snow in Cornwall yesterday!! Very pretty it is too and -3 today, which is the lowest since I moved here!

Hi K.. so it just got added?? Thats good then. I think you get one shot at it here then you have to pay.

Ha no I suppose he doesnt! Its a mixture of me not asking as much of him as I used to and him being very happy to just be back with me and wanting to make sure I am happy and make up for being gone.. but I do often say to him nowadays (jokingly).. why are you being so nice to me !!?? But we always did have such a harmonious R pre-bomb and rarely argued..which is why it was so shocking when he ended it abrubtly with no discussion. Now its like I just dreamt it.. a very bad dream. So wierd.

Managed to get out today, but didn't like driving in it one little bit. Can't get over how quiet everywhere is, not just lack of people noise in general. Supposed to get more snow Sunday, good excuse for you to stay under the duvet and ahem practise.

Yes, practice, practice, practice!!!!

Pardon us as we live vicariously though you!

kat

Got to tell you, doing the male fertility thing is a bit unnerving.

They hand you a cup and point you to a bathroom where you have to masterbate into the cup and then bring it out to them. It is really weird to have them look at you when you come out of the bathroom after you just "rubbed one out" for the test.

Very odd experience indeed.

RTL

...to top it off, I was put into a supply closet that had a toilet and sink w/NO PORN or anything to help "stimulate my imagination." What made it worse was the last woman I saw was the 70-year-old w/a mole who handed me my jar before I went in.

Needless to say, I was able to "pull it off" but it did take a lot of work on my part.

RTL

Ha ha, funny thanks Rob! Well I asked him again and he said he would go for the test and looked very calm about it. I said REALLY? He said yes, sure, I'll do it! I think he wants to know he is ok and also, do what he can to help as he knows we lost 2 1/2 years, what with him leaving me and then 6 months renconciling until we were back to where we were spring 2007 when we were talking about having children.

We've only just started, but I am 39 in March, the age my Nan went through the menopause and not long before my Mum did at 42. I'm still not 100% ready for motherhood mentally, but there is no more time to get ready, its literally now or never! Lucky then that Jupiter (planet of expansion and creation) is going into my own sign of Pisces this week, and it couldnt be better timing.

Hi Ali,

Quote:

I'm still not 100% ready for motherhood mentally,

well you get 9 mths to get your head around it, but not sure anyone actually is aware of the life changing affects having a baby has on their life.
Maybe this note of caution isn't nec. but sorry I have to say it. I don't want to put a damper on the proceedings or your excitement at trying, apologies in advance if you think my caution is negative-certainly not meant to be.
Please please thought don't think having a baby will be a quick fix for your relationship or bf's depressive tendancies. You could end up being sole parent in many ways on many occassions. I know you are worried about the age thing but don't rush at it unless you are both 100% certain this is what you both want and for all the right reasons.
That being said a baby brings so much joy along with sleepless nights,worry and a never ending drain on your resources, BUT I am sure none of us parents would be without them, and that says it all.
Robs posts brought back many memories of my H's view of the test,also the timing of them,not always conducive to feeling "up" for it if you get my drift.
Good luck anyway both of you, maybe b/f more than you at the mo.This will test his devotion to you that's for sure-lol.
S

Ok Ali, I was catching up on Kalni's thread and re-read the years mentioned again. I couldn't for the life of me remember where I read those years. Anyway, the first year mentioned I was starting a relationship with one guy when I really wanted to be with someone else(current Flirt guy) and in 1998 I was pregnant. So I really don't want to be pregnant again, does this mean I might get my do over?

Sorry for the hijack, but for your situation. It is sometimes something you find yourself taking the plunge in. With my fertility issues, ML felt like work and I was heartbroken every time I wasn't pregnant. I know I was slightly depressed then and felt like I was broken. Before everyone hops on the you must have figured your problems out wagon, since I have 4 kids, I had to use fertility drugs with all of them but the last one. Numbers 2 and 3, I tried over 2 years for. I just got very lucky with s17. I looked for the signs and bam got pregnant. It is okay, everyone is a little scared.

hugs, kat

Thanks Naej.. you hit the nail on the head, but the other way round! Everything is so wonderful, I've never been happier and we have such a lovely close R.. I'm worried that having a baby would RUIN that, not fix it ! Plus, bf has always been broody, he wanted us to try when I was 35 and I said no, I wasnt ready... (sigh!) so he's really sure about wanting children. He's also doing MUCH better.. so I think these new AD's have worked! (they're called citalopram). I do want children, if its still possible!!

Kat, thanks for the encouragement! I quoted those years to Maria because she is also a Pisces and they were the years that Jupiter was in Pisces ('our' Jupiter year and Jupiter transits over our Sun during that year, very auspicious). It would depend where Jupiter falls in your chart, or where you have Pisces?

There is an eclipse conjunct Venus at the end of the week..the day I ovulate and also, my gf just told me she is taking her implant out and trying for children from Thursday! Funny how planetary movements reflect life events. Eclipses trigger big life events and shunt us onto different paths. The eclipse hits my Ascendant exactly. The last direct hit of an eclipse was an eclipse in Pisces, hit my Sun exact on the day bf moved out and left me, 11th Sept 2007. That changed our relationship forever onto a new footing (one that was more loving and appreciative, on both sides, than it ever was before). Our relationship had to be eclipsed in order to be reborn. And some people dont believe in astrology....!

I really dont know what to expect. The way things are at my end, arent so rosy like with you guys. Yes, I can say with certainty that he is more here than he has been the last 4 (!!!) years, but I miss so much the connection I want to scream!!!

Today he went ahead and told me he "is bringing some more things over" and I almost said "NO!!!, dont do that to me, is this how my life is gonna be from now on?"
sigh...
Keep trying, enjoy it and stop worrying.
K

Hi Ali

Quote:

Everything is so wonderful, I've never been happier and we have such a lovely close R..

If that's true, why are you willing to devote such energy to posting here about how unwell your partner says he is and the limiting behaviours that go with that.

When we are happy it's not work. When we are happy we focus on the abundance that's available to us, rather than what is limited to us (in your musings sex, fun, playfulness, cash). When we are happy we are the calm sea who accepts the gifts the universe delivers without regard for what is still not "right" in our world.

Happy? You sure?

I wonder what it is within you that is prepared to accept that your happiness can be delivered in an environment and relationship that is signficantly less than ideal? Why are you delaying the good and abundant things that are available to you? Stubborness? Pride? Fear?

Why do you think you are unworthy of a relaitonship with a healthy partner who is wholly and fundamentally committed to being a full and equal partner in the emotional and psychological health of your relationship and your potential family?

Life, love, relationships ... the good ones, the ones that contribute to the accomplishment of our own self awareness and self esteem are not difficult. They do not involve making compromises, fixing others or doing more than our 50% of work in our relationships.

And one more thing ... what is it within you that means you deflect rather than reflect on almost anything Naej says to you that doesn't support the track you've convinced yourself is the right one? What do you think that defensive reaction is doing for you? Do you think it's a healthy reaction?

Just sayin' .....

Virginia,
OK, so Ali, is not really happy but she thinks she is? Hmm, havent been thru this before? And I think this time Ali actually agreed with naej about the baby meaning stress and difficulties. She said she is worried a baby would stress them and ruin their happiness instead of bring them closer...

Ali, a baby changes your life completely. Just like naej says. And just like she said, none of us parents would change the fact that our lives...changed. LOL!!!
K

Hey Virginia. 1 in 4 of the population will suffer from depression at some point (I have).. are you suggesting that people prone to depression cannot make decent, loving partners?? Depression is an illness and yes its hard on me when he gets episodes, as it would be if he was suffering with cancer say, but that�s not a reason to leave and I'm not trying to fix him, his health and happiness is his responsibility.

I wouldn�t say he wasn�t a 'healthy partner', nor is doing less than 50%, in fact, he is loving, kind, funny, supportive partner who is 100% committed to me and in no way is our relationship "significantly less than ideal". He�s a lovely bf ! No, its not perfect, but I am happy and grateful every day for this life.

Depression is treatable.. in fact his new ADs have kicked in and he's a changed man. He's positive, smiles, he�s enjoying work again and his sex drive has returned (and we are enjoying frequent baby making!). He is cheerful again.. the black dog has receeded and the sun has come out. I�m so relieved, for him.

Peace, Al x

Glad the new meds are really working! He is still taking his supplements too right?

Glad you guys are getting some practice in!

Practice makes perfect...or in this case baby.

Glad things are going well. Keep having positive thoughts.

kat

Do you have a web cam? We could post videos on FB DB to show what successful DBing looks like!! LOL

Come back here, you are not done yet lil lady!!
S

Quote:

you suggesting that people prone to depression cannot make decent, loving partners??

Of course not ... 1 in 4? I'm surprised it's that low, I would have thought the number might be higher than that. My darling, sucessful, fabulous loving Dad has suffered with depression all his (and our life) and I wouldn't change him for the world ... but my sisters and I have all inherited (genetics or environment? who knows) his illness to different degrees and a parent's health is an imporant consideration in the likely health outcomes for their offspring.

One of my sisters and I have forgiven mum for making such a dodgy choice of partner and co-parent on the basis that she was very young when she chose dad and didn't know anything about depression or mental illness - I suspect she also had low self esteem so thought this almost perfect (but slightly broken) man was a good catch. My other sister ... not so much. She's still pretty cross about what she perceives was a fractured and dysfunctional upbringing, because of dad's sadness and distance and the impact that had on our mum who is such a larger than life, fun, overflowing-with-love woman.

No - I'm not making any comment about your boyfriend's capacity to be a loving, decent partner. What I'm commenting on is your dissatisfaction and gently suggesting you trust yourself to really have a look at it and see what it means.

Ali life doesn't have to be so difficult and so full of angst.

Deepak Chopra, in his book The Ultimate Happiness Prescription says

Quote:

when mind, body and spirit are in harmony, happiness is the natural result. Signs of the absence of harmony on the other hand, are discomfort, pain, depression, anxiety and illness in general. Unhappiness is a form of feedback. It signals that disharmony has entered the field somewhere - either in mind, body or spirit. Awareness has become disconnected. Only when we look at the situation in this holistic way can we link health, wholeness, and holiness, for all three share the same root word, and all three share the same state of harmony or disharmony.

The thing is, when you discribe your uncertainty, it's not all about your boyfriend's depression (even though sometimes it does sound like you blame a lot of your unhappiness on things your boyfriend does or doesn't do - photos of old girlfriend, phone calls to her on your birthday, extended periods of little sexual intimacy... you know by now that no one is responsible for your happiness and comfort but you).

Remember too that what someone does or says to you is their karma. How you react is yours.

Blessings. V

So glad the new AD's are working for him Ali! That is marvelous and get's you closer to the new goal.....BABY!

Is it this Friday that the eclipse is happening? I can't scroll back and look....curiosity.

Hey Walking, I have read Deepak Chopra, thanks. I like Pema Chodron too.

I've known my bf 14 years but his depression wasnt 'obvious' or even diagnosed until after his Dad died and we moved to Cornwall. It was never a major aspect of our R, or didnt impact it. But it did before and during the S and largely the cause of him leaving (and some of that was my responsibility, of course).

The comments I made about Helen and their R were just some more processing the last 2 1/2 years (and what this thread has been for).. as new information came to light (the old phonebill). I'm not blaming him for that Virginia, or any unhappiness, or the S even. I DO take responsibility for my part in the breakup.

I dont have any unhappiness, but I have had a few wobbles around trying to conceive and normal concerns about trying for a baby at near 39 and the associated risks, but I can honestly say I am not focusing on the medical worries, I am more focusing on eating well and ML every other day as advised !

Its not perfect that he suffers with depression, but I dont intend to de-select him as a parent! My uncertaintities about having children arent to do with that, they are residual from my own upbringing (that I should aspire for careers and independence rather than M and children) and I've had to work at unravelling that childhood conditioning, which has taken years! Just in the nick of time, hopefully.

Hey girls.. ok well this thread has turned into a bit of a baby making diary

. Yep, so the ADs have worked, he seems his old self again and yes, just in time as we would have had trouble conceiving otherwise!!! Its the first time in his life he had lost his s*x drive so thank goodness everything is back to normal on that front.

Bobbi if you are reading, I found some of those ovulation strips (thanks!!) so hopefully that will be a big help, as it was for you. And Kat, I have been looking out for those other signs, you were right !!

Hey Mish.. the eclipse is.. TODAY! And today Mercury also goes direct, messages and information should now come through and things "come to light" on the eclipse. Its in Capricorn.

I'm feeling a bit emotional today, thinking of all my friends here and how far we have come.

xxx

I heard about the details of the eclipse on the news this morning. That would have been an awesome sight to see! The longest duration for a solar eclipse for the next 1000 years.

Hey mish,
dont worry, we'll catch the next one!!! (positive thinking)
(I think I will return in another woman's body, hopefully Gisel's or at least Evangelista's...)
K

HI = sorry for the hijack = what does this eclipse/mercury retrograde ending mean? My R has taken a huge step toward the positive this week = could be the start of something good?

Hey Hope.. well we usually go back over things, retrace our steps, review, revise and revisit things (people, the past, decisions etc) whilst Mercury is re-trograde as it has been and then after this thinking/information gathering few weeks, we move forwards once again refreshed when Mercury goes direct. This is why you shouldnt buy anything electrical whilst Mercury is going backwards as oftgen, once it moves forwards again, you change your mind about it, or it isnt fit for the purpose anymore. Mercury rules communications, messages, texts, phones, the mind, etc.

Eclipses also shake things up and shunt us back onto the correct path.. thats a 4 day window (so 2 days either side teh eclipse for potency).. so if things have altered to you around the eclipse/Mercury direct, I would trust thats a new direction. Eclipses can affet things over the long term 6 months - 3 years, depending on how they impact your chart. Certianly, their effects can be felt until the next pair of eclipses, in 6 months time, which will be again in Cancer/Capricorn.

Thanks for stopping over! I answered on my thread but thought I would hop over here too. Yesterday I was just really not able to focus(perhaps still a bit sick) and even felt a tad dizzy. Anyway couldn't think of some obvious stuff and I contacted flirt guy. He e-mailed right back and even later in the day sent me a link with info. So I suppose that is good, though I felt like a bit of a dunce that I couldn't think straight. lol

Computer at home has a virus thanks to something my kids did while I was sick. So now I will get to deal with that. I know you have said your BF is a Leo, when is his birthday? Mine is the 27th of July. Just wondering.

Have fun this weekend!

kat

Hey thats interesting Kat! I posted to you because I wondered if you had had any contact with flirty guy, I almost asked, but then I didnt want to put ideas in your head ! Seems like you felt compelled to contact him anyway, wow.

BF's bd is 21 August, so he is quite a late Leo but a Leo nonetheless.

Well we tried to go help at shelterbox.org, they were packing up another 1000 crates of emergency tent/cooking/water equipment to be flown to Haiti, but they had too many people helping already. We have to call back tommorow, they are doing 3 more packs. Its just awful isnt, makes you grateful.

That's great that you had a place to go volunteer help Ali. Better that they didn't need the help right then because they had too many! That is a rare indeed.

We're raising money all over the place here. The disaster in Haiti definitely brings a lot of our problems into perspective doesn't it? I have been sitting here trying to find coupons to use at the grocery to save more money and then I turn on CNN and hear more of the personal stories and see the devastation and it makes me feel ridiculous for trying to save a buck. I decided right then to make this a personal challenge for myself. Save as much money as possible with my coupons and store sales and whatever I save I am turning around to donate. My church is collecting money for World Vision. If you haven't heard of it, they are an organization that specializes in distributing food and clean water to some of the most impoverished areas of the world. They were already doing great work in Haiti (recovery efforts from the multiple hurricanes) and have ramped it up to deal with the disaster.

How about everyone here making a challenge to themselves to donate x amount of time or money or both to relief efforts? What do you say guys?

Thanks Ali - Two days before the eclipse H and I had our most open R talk yet - instigated by him. Also, for three weeks previously (the retrograde?) H did a turnaround and started being home more, more relaxed, and more open. This looks like the start of something hopeful. After nine months, I sure hope so!

Sorry for th hijack - good luck with the baby making

Quote:

I have read Deepak Chopra, thanks. I like Pema Chodron too

Good. So when you reflect on their philosophies how do you think your sitch would stack up?

What do you those philosophies would guess about a soul who was making decisions to fall pregnant with an emotionally and at times physically impotent (without the assistance of anti-depressant medication) man? Do you think they'd draw any correlation between the sign of impotence and the authenticity of the decision to pro-create?

Ali I know I'm pushing your buttons and I'm not really enjoying it - but you know this stuff and for some reason you are pretending you don't. I don't get that.

V

Ali -

I think you are making some rash decisions now about trying to have children. Some of it is because your age, some because of your joy of winning your BF back and maybe some hidden feelings that a child will keep him from straying again.

It was just a month ago that your BF was lost and needing to get on AD's and see an IC. And he has been on AD's before only to end up saying they do not work. I see you denying some of the great advice that Naej and Walking is mentioning. I noticed your frustration post on FB about getting away from DB site and I suspect it may be because of the posts by Walking and Naej which may be triggering some doubts you have in your mind that you dont wish to address.

Why do you and BF not get married?

Why cant you wait at least 6 months or more to see whether you BF is really back before trying to conceive? Or are you of the mindset that if the R does not work out that you would still prefer raising a child as a single parent?

I dont know. Maybe I am reading it wrong, but going back the last couple months, I just get a strange vibe that you are going too quick on trying to get pregnant before making sure that the R is fully reconciled.

Hey guys.. I'm not frustrated about posting here, I have made great friends here who really helped me through a difficult time in my life. But like others before me, a time will come to �fly the nest� and stop posting..

I started a knitting class this week.. OMG I am so excited about it, I have wanted to knit since I was 7 (tried a few times)! I am also starting adult ballet tonight, cant wait! I loved ballet at 4, but my parents couldn�t afford the fees. BF had his second golf class last night.. he was very pleased with his swing ! He has always wanted to learn to play. And we are looking for a guitar teacher locally to help us improve. And bf has definetly turned a corner, although its something he will always need to keep an eye on.

BTW, the decision to have children is in NO WAY to do with keeping him, worrying that he may stray again or holding our R together. I cannot stress strongly enough how incorrect that is and how secure and loved I feel, even if we DIDNT have children! My decision is not based on FEAR that he will leave or not love me anymore, my FEAR is my own and its natural to be scared...because I have lived a very free life and I still have so many things I want to do. But I'm sure we will cope and love it.

Walking, he was never physically impotent or unable to ML (TMI!) but he did have some mental issues about it for a short spell, to do with him processing his guilt about how he behaved toward me. From what I have read, that that is perfectly normal for men in Piecing and in no way a sign from the universe that he shouldn�t procreate!! We have talked a lot, over the years about having a family and its just.. time. And yes sure it would be nice to have a few more years to kickback, travel and just enjoy life with bf, but woman just don't have that luxury Kerry and the reality is that time IS a factor.

There is no benefit in waiting 6 months, we are fully reconciled and our R is stable. And after 11 years together, I don�t regard us as moving too quick on this!! I could even be pregnant already

And Kerry bf practically proposed on Friday! He asked if I still wasn�t bothered about having a wedding (owing to my feminist, atheist upbringing and it not being something my parents ever instilled in me). I told him things change.. I may have had that opinion before owing to my childhood conditioning, but I wanted to get M now. So that solves the riddle about why he hasn�t asked me! I could have asked him of course, but I wanted him to �own it� and to have the joy of asking for my hand in M..

I can't say that my life and decisions are perfect, but I know I am on the right path...

I dont understand where all this comes from. I think just as we do with our Best friends we come here to worry and say everything that bothers us because we feel safe and can be honest.

BUT still, I dont see where all this concern comes from? Ali's BF has asked her to marry him twice so far if I can recall, they own houseS together,they've been together for 11 YEARS with an 18 months break which they overcame even though there were no kids or other obligations to cloud their brains. They are together now because of FREE WILL and conscious decision and not because of money/kids/etc etc.

I think THAT is WONDERFUL!!! When I saw them together, I realised what Ali kept saying about them being so connected etc etc. A chance for them to go another crisis is always possible and probably will always be. But now Ali KNOWS that. Right Ali?

If it is early or not for a baby, I think that is a personal decision. I wonder if I am missing something because I do care for Ali very much and if there is something there that is alarming I hope someone points it out to me...

Ali, I hope you udenrstand, all people here are reaching out to help...
K

There is never a 'perfect' time to have children. It is a personal decision and as such should be respected.

On the knitting front Ali.....I am a real knitting fan......used to knit garments for shop window displays as a student to help bring in extra income. L
ook out for a lady called Debbie Bliss. She has a 'How to....' manual/ guide that is great and the patterns she creates are great and classified into how easy/difficult they are. Her designs for both adults and children are sublime.

Hey Ali, you know what they say about opinions...

You sound good and I wish you and your BF luck in the babymaking dept....D9 is a treasure and has become my #1 priority. I hope you get to experience that feeling soon.

As far as continuing to post or not, I have thought about it as well. Not sure it does everybody good to stay on so long but I follow a few threads and every once in a while post. No harm in that.

Again good luck to you.

After all that we have been through...I say keep the positive thoughts going. Life is hard enough.

I think everyone means well and obviously care enough about you to voice words of caution. As long as you are going in with your eyes open, I don't see any problem. Also I know that we usually write about the hard stuff and not all of the good because that is what we want advice about or need to vent about. We aren't in your day to day life. so if you are able to see the big picture, I say go for it.

Love ya, kat

Ali,

Best luck on the babymaking front!

Glad you found those ovulation strips. I got pregnant the second month I used them...then my gf asked me about it and she was pregnant 2 months after that!

The lessons sound fun! I esp miss taking dance lessons, I took them my whole childhood (age 4-17)...

You are right, babies change your life. You can't just pick up and go like you can when you don't have kids. But they are amazing little people, so worth it! Just this morning after boot camp class I crawled in my bed and snuggled with both of my kids for a few minutes. Best part of my day!

Besides, they do make these things called babysitters/nannies for when you want to have grwon-up time!

I, for one, think Ali is on the absolute right track....for her. She knows where she's been, how things have been in the past, has grown as a woman and as a partner....she's fabulous!

That said......so cool on the knitting class. I took crochet years ago and loved it. My mom became very proficient and made a LOT of afghans. It became an honor in our family to get an afghan from my mom. I crocheted a blanket and some sweaters for Marc when I was pregnant. Knitting seems like it would take so much coordination! My left hand is nearly useless.:)

Ballet???? WOW! That is so difficult...I am impressed girl! Have fun.

Wow! Awesome on the classes! I love dancing, but I've never attempted ballet. Not sure I ever will. I think I'll stick to my country and ballroom. I really want to learn Argentine tango, there's a dance studio near the house I'm buying, so hopefully I can make some time to do that with RB!

We can't let our fears hold us back. Yes, BF could leave again, or you could leave him, or either of you could get hit by a bus tomorrow. That can't stop you from living your life though. Just enjoy it!

OMG Mish.. Ballet was AMAZING !! I learnt positions etc, plia's and arms and little jumps all at the bar and I had only been there 10 minutes before I nearly cried I loved it so much !! I think the dramatic balletic piano music helped, I felt I was on a filmset. My back still hurts from that accident last May, so I may not be able to keep going

I wanted to do Argentine tango too Michelle, that sounds ace! It would be great to go with RB.

Saffie, I will google her, thanks. I wanted to knit something in mohair. I bought a beautiful indigoish mohair yarn for a fitted cardigan by Stephanie Japel, which is too ambitious! I can't find an easy mohair pattern??

Bobbi..yes we timed it JUST right I think this month, so could be bingo! Although at my age it could take a year, who knows - my eggs aren�t as sprightly as they once were

Kat, Jon, thanks for your support.. its certainly a big life changing moment for me, a bit different to my posts this time last year hey! It would be a blessing to be able to have one, but we also are both keen on adoption.

K, thanks for posting and yes I know theres no guarantees, but all you can do is go forwards with an open heart right. I love your recent posts btw! I must read PM again (rubbish memory).

I�ve been thinking about writing a diary again.. I love to write and I used to find it a good thing to do. I think journaling in some form would help bf too. I did ask him to write something for me reflecting on all this.. if he does, I will post it here, if it helps anyone reading Piecing, for insight into a WAS.

Sounds like good things. Trying to learn more and do more is certainly good for the soul. Just wanted to check in and say hi!

kat

Hi Kat! Well... we're doing it all 'right', I'm not drinking at all anymore, we're busy eating super well (just made carrot and yam soup!) so its just a waiting game now...!

BF is being very sweet, treating me as precious cargo, as though I am already pg. Things are normal, settled, like it was all a bad dream. Funny to be baby making in this house, I only realised yesterday, this time last year I literally didnt even know where he lived! No address or phone number. What an outcome huh. It doesnt matter at all anymore, in fact we just laugh about it now. I wish I could've posted to some of those in Newcomers but I never could do it. I tried to post all I could here though, especially last year when I got alot of clarity from him, to help anyone wanting some insight into a WAS, for what it was worth. I know all sitches are different, but I do think these men share common themes.

Anyway, just wanted to say hi to all my friends here! Aint life funny...

Speaking for myself, the insight you provided into the WAS did help a lot. And you're right - although all sitches are different, they all share many similarities.

Thanks Addie, that means alot to me.

So got all my bloods back, good and bad news. My hormones (FSH, LSH, Progesterone) were all normal and Doc said I am definetly not menopausal, nowhere near, yay!!

BUT, I have very elevated prolactin (over 800) and high thyroid stimulating hormone (although thyroid is fine) and low B12, so could be hypothyroidism and possibility of 'growths' on the pituitary in the brain and well.. I feel a bit freaked out now! He said not to worry and he will restest it in 3 months. Although I have to go back in in 2 weeks when bf gets his results. I wasnt expecting to be told I was either lactating or might have a brain tumour

So is he going to have you do anything about either of those things in the meantime? They will get you right, I am sure of it, so don't give up. My Danish sister is "working" on IV right now, so hope to hear that I will be an aunt again.

kat

Did I ever tell you I spoke with Madalyn Aslan? I love her voice. It was back in November and I just got out the tape of our reading and relistened to it. The most obvious thing she told me was that my stress levels were way too high. I am working on that.

She said a bit about Tarot, astrology, Palm reading and Psychic stuff. We shall see if it comes to pass...

kat

Hey Kat, just saw this, I like Madalyn Aslan! I have been reading her free weeklies for years, I used to love her monthlys before they became paid for. That sounds like an interesting session! Was it recent?

I got dragged along to a medium evening by Cher last week. She told me that she didnt see any problem with me and bf having 2 children together, that we had a lovely basis to our R, but that bf was not being completely honest with me, but that he would talk to me one day, far off after we have had 2 kids, which will change our R.. But I am ok with it and we will ALWAYS love each other and be close and I am the bestest friend he ever has, or will have and can only talk to me. Funny because my intuition tells me the same thing and it is ok. I didnt tell her a thing, just my name! It was very freaky.

So...prolactin has now gone up to 1335, eek! I've been referred to an endocrinologist and for an MRI scan. I didnt expect all of this when we started babymaking...BF is being his usual brilliant self. He really is cured, positive, chirpy, relaxed, whoever invented Citilopram deserves a medal! He starts IC soon too.

It was actually back in November when I was trying to figure out all the confusing signals I was getting with my soul connection. I suppose the pull will always be there because whenever I try to "push" it away it comes rushing back at me. I am trying to find a balance so that it isn't as painful(as in it hurts to be apart).

Glad things are going well with your boyfriend. Also good that you are getting yourself healthier. Hope they can fix everything.

hugs, kat

Take care of yourself my dear. Glad things are going well.

This is flirt guys horoscope today. If it only implied me...

Things are better, just like everyone promised they would be. The weight of the world has been lifted, but nobody's saying you'll be bored, either. A planetary team will conspire to put you in touch with the last person on earth you ever thought you'd see again -- especially now. Ready or not, here comes a giant wake-up call: You still care, and so do they. Now what are you going to do?

I know I am hopeless to many but hopeful to me.

kat

Ali,

What does the prolactin level indicate? I know you said you had to have an MRI for a possible pituitary problem. Did they indicate what else could be causing the increase?

Thanks Michelle! I am trying!! Hey Kat.. why not just.. ASK HIM?? Any chance we could... ?

Mish, Prolactin is normally 30-400 max, anything over 600 apparently will prevent you getting pg, or could cause a miscarriage if you did.. over 1000 indicates a pituitary tumour. BUT, other things could cause it, like ovary issues maybe, or sometimes stress (but not usually so high). I managed to get an appointment THIS Friday thankfully..yep private, but that way I get 45mins with the Consultant. The NHS free appointment is only 5-10 minutes long and its a 10+ week wait! Its fixable with tablets, fingers crossed.

Its our 11 year anniversary on Saturday.. bf has arranged a suprise apparently!

I'd love him to propose and it'd be 3rd time lucky for him.. cos I'd say yes this time!!

Wow Ali, that is disturbing but I'm glad you were able to get an appointment so quickly. That amazes me that they would make you wait 10 weeks for something that could be serious unless it's treated quickly. Yea for private care!!

Happy anniversary early! I'm excited to hear what the surprise is!!!!!

Ok, so yeah, I am a bit of a chicken. I brought it up last year but he has told me he just can't right now. He is fighting some demons of his own and I get that. So I am just keeping in touch at the moment.

Anyhow, I am glad that you are getting in to get this all worked out. and also many Congratulations on your Anniversary. I hope the surprise is what you are hoping for.

kat

Hey, there, Princess!!

I'm so glad to catch up and read your report. Things are going well, it seems, but do be sure to be careful w/the fertility drugs. Some can be dicey!!!

RTL

Hi Rob! Hows life?
Yes I heard that and I definetly dont want any !! I might need some medication for this prolactin/thyroid issue though, unfortunately. I have my appointment today with the endocrinologist, I've been reading and taking notes but I am nervous.. consultants in this country HATE to be questioned and can get quite bad tempered if you do! Hopefully, he's a nice consultant.

I found out my TSH is 4.6, it needs to be between 0.5 and 2 and preferably around 1 to conceive

Hey Al! I had to have an MRI for pituitary tumor last fall, due to the fact that I was lactating for no apparent reason!! (Not like it was streaming out, but if I rubbed off with a towel, they would leak, when I ran if the sports bra chafed, they would leak, etc.)

It went away but then came back, now I take cabergoline tablets, once a week to treat the problem...

Not sure what to do about the TSH...that is strange as well! Take care Al...

So what did the doc say? Or did they send you out to get even more lab work done? Hope things are good.

I will be thinking of you tomorrow.

kat

Hey girls... Bobbi thanks I posted on your thread asking about Cabergoline, because I too have been prescribed that, but I've been too scared to take it! Silly, but the side effects look horrendous.

I wasnt expecting all of this and it feels a bit overwhelming, mainly because I feel like I dont really know whats going on with my body. I had 45 minutes with the consultant and asked him some specific questoins about TSH/prolactin/FSH, thyroid antibodies and numbers needed to get pregnant and apart from the raised Prolactin he pooh poohed everything I said..in a nice, super reassuring way..but its not him thats trying to get pregnant is it and frankly, I dont trust doctors. They missed my Dads heliobacteria for 6 years, misdiagnosed my Uncle's bowel cancer for 4 years until it was advanced (he has survived 7 years thankfully).

I am worried my TSH is elevated (but doc says its just outside of normal at 4.6).. ALL the ladies on these fertility forums say they didnt get pg till there levels were under 2. So presumably I need thyroid medicine too..BUT, I dont want to have to take Cabergoline and Thyroxine and whatever else.

I signed up for a yoga class.. I cant believe its not possible to heal yourself without the use of pharmaceuticals...

BF being his usual loving self, he said on the weekend, its like it all never happened really.. like just a bad dream. He didnt propose but he took me away for a romantic weekend, back to a little boutique hotel we went to years ago, when we decided to move down here.. before his Dad died and the depression and the bomb. So that was sweet. We even ended up in the same room!! I was so happy.

I am so glad you had a fabulous weekend!

Very romantic.

The cabergoline does make me feel a little nauseated/sleepy, but only for a day or so. I just blow off my healthy food and eat whatever sounds good and then I am fine!

In my case they also put my on birth control pills to try and help the hormone levels, but of course that won't work for you!

Don't know if your prolactin level is high enough to cause you to have milk in your breasts, but if so, another treatment they suggested was that I wear a tight sports bra 24 hours a day for 28 days. That was not incredibly fun, sleeping in it for one, and also a lot of fashions do not look as flattering with a sports bra underneath when I was relying on some padding and underwire to give me shape!

Oh well, it was a non-medical intervention. Also this may be TMI for some of you, but when you ML you should avoid having bf stimulate your breasts in anyway, that triggers milk production and can cause your prolactin levels to stay elevated...

OK enough of my opinion. Hopefully the yoga will help you stay calm. And of course, the more sex, the more likely to conceive!

Thankyou Bobbi! Well that does sound very reassuring, I guess I should just take it! In answer to your question, no, I dont have any symptoms of raised prolactin at all! They only discovered it because I went for a general hormone check up to get pg.

I guess I was disappointed he didnt propose, but then, things are wonderful so I really shouldnt complain. I dont want to ask him myself, I want him to do the manly thing and ask me, it would be better for him that way around. I dont want to demasculinate him!

Sounds like a LOVELY weekend!

Hope they get your health stuff figured out!

What a wonderful way to spend the weekend! Sunggled up in bed with the man you love in a cozy hotel. Brilliant!

I have no idea what all that hormone stuff is about and have absolutely no sage advice to give, but I certainly hope you get it all figured out soon. Just know, the more you stress yourself about it, the less likely to conceive. Yoga should help quite a bit I would say!

Ali if you haven't already you should get your hands on Louise Hay - You can heal your life.

It's a great book about how we create and can heal our own physical illnesses. Her philosophy is a very simple and profound one around the idea that we create every so-called illness in our body. She proposes a theory that resentment, criticism, and guilt are the most damaging patterns and releasing resentment will dissolve even cancer.

She expounds that self-approval and self-acceptance in the now are the keys to positive changes. When we really love ourselves, everything in our life works.

It�s a great tomb on self development and self awareness. Some of the affirmations are a bit over the top � but the theory and how it can be applied to our lives is really powerful.

Well I must be doing something right...

BF asked me to marry him !!! So we are now engaged

It was very sweet, he went down on one knee on Sunday night. He was supposed to ask me on holiday next week and do the beach/harbour/sunset or suitably romantic thing, but he couldnt wait and wanted me to know he DID want to marry me...I didnt have a clue! He has been planning to ask me since he was in Greece, but he wanted to find the perfect ring first and its taken him this long to find it!! Very sweet and he asked my Dad for permission too which is lovely of him as my Dad was dead chuffed.

So.. wow, who'd have thought it hey, this time last year, but all of that is well and truly behind us now and I'm very excited our future together. We cant stop smiling at each other!!

Just need to get the MRI done now, Thursday. (I do have that book, I got it at 22 its excellent isnt it!.)
xxx

Sooooo, I am FINALLY going to be Guest of Honor in a British Wedding!!! Gosh!! I'll wear a hat and gloves and a tight glove fitting dress and you better have all the eligible young men lined up for me my dear!!! (in case H still doenst want to touch me

)...

When is the wedding? You have to tell me so I can book tickets, hotels etc etc... I am starting to write up that speech I have promised. (I am still waiting for Lisa and her wedding as well.)
I am VERY VERY happy for you my darling.
Your friend
Maria

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!

Ali, I couldn't be more thrilled. Wow! I have such a big smile on my face reading that.

You deserve it Al.

Yay!

I am so incredibly happy for you both! I think I will have a spring in my step all day.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

hugs to you both, kat

((((((((((Ali))))))))))

Congratulations! What a trip it's been!

BEST WISHES!!!!!!!!

If my smile were any bigger you could see it there in Cornwall!

You have worked so hard on your R and I can only imagine that will benefit your M in immeasurable ways.

Have you set a date or month yet? You have to keep us up on what the plans are and there will need to be pics in the alt.

Absolutely thrilled for you both!

Kat, Mish, Julia, Jeff.. thank you SO much! Hey it was a joint effort for a while there and thanks to all you guys, yes, made it to here and we do have a better R than ever before.

Maria - thanks to you to my friend. It will hopefully be in the summer, this year, if not next year (no idea!) but you will need a hat and gloves, becuase a British summer is like your winter !! I'm getting nervous about this speech already ;-) but yes, you will most definetly be guest of honour.

So its a beautiful ring, very classy and elegant. To think he had already decided months ago and I was really wondering why he hadnt asked me! I was just joking to him the other day that he was secretive and he insisted he wasnt! Ha, well, good at keeping secrets I would say. I couldnt have kept that quiet for 5 months!!

Becuase it was impromptu, we had to celebrate with a premade supermarket lasagne, oven chips, salad and a bottle of Cava !! Hey we know how to live the high life

But then he ran and got his ipod and speakers and played THAT song, the one I posted here a few times (The Longpigs, On and On), the one that used to make me cry when I missed him so dreadfully, our song.. which he took to be our song too. He told me a few months ago that he would never listen to the Longpigs when he was with Helen, he couldnt bare to (guess she must have tried to!)..anyway, so he played it and it made me cry all over again as we had a slow dance round the lounge.

I cant believe you can go from being SO devastated, to SO happy, happier than ever, in the space of a year. We have no plans yet, but I want it to be a FUN wedding and everyone to have time to get to know each other and a band and relaxed and informal and.. well, I need to rob a bank to afford it, but it will be magical.

GREAT NEWS!!!! Just got caught up on your thread-- you're a real success story.

(((Ali)))

That's so amazing! CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks girls! Andabelle, it never stops being amazing!

I've remembered the lessons I learnt when he left and all the IC I had. I am a different person nowadays and our R is more loving and equal as a consequence. I'm not insecure, but it IS lovely and also important to me, to be engaged now after all that went on. I mean, the way he just walked out like that, its still shocking that he could have been so ..cruel. To abandon me down here where we had not long moved, in a big expensive house, with me struggling at college anyway and I had no friends here or job even! Its not something that ever comes to mind when I am with him and it all feels like a very long time ago.. but it did still happen. And it altered me forever and I dont suppose I would ever be as complacent as I was pre-bomb. I have forgiven him, but that doesnt mean I have forgotton, because it really was a shitty thing to do to someone, just a few weeks warning, no discussion, no voice, no chance, to be so brutal.

But thats a consequence of him being emotionally unhealthy and getting to a crisis point in himself and his own personality that needed to blow apart. You cant make an omelette without breaking eggs right. And he is much happier and contented nowadays and he's even just cut his AD's to just 10mg and I think he will be off them altogether by summer. That will be 5 years after the crisis hit (his Dads death).

I could never read Piecing because it used to upset me, but for those that need any inspiration and are reading, listen to your intuition and cut out the rest of the noise, which is how I never lost hope.

Hi Ali,

Im new, but i wanted to say urs is such an inspirational story and it really gives me hope.

I'm a WAW so i can kind of empathize with your partner in some respects. I 'woke' up after 10wks but the difference is my H has not taken me back properly yet. My sitch is long and complicated, faults on both sides but my EA did the most damage because my H does not forgive easily. And i don't deserve immediate forgiveness.

What i wanted to ask is referring to your last comment...do you think if you never give up hope and assume and act like everything will come good in the end that life will turn out that way?
I sometimes don't want to act happy because my H will think I don't believe what i did was serious. Do you know what i mean?

Congrats on your engagement, you deserve it!!

(((((Ali)))))
Besides not giving up hope, the other thing you did was follow the DB advice, even when it felt backwards. You took care of yourself, and didn't let your situation run your life. You made it safe for him to come back. And you alianalyzed now and then! (I just had to use that word one more time!)

Ali,
Congratulations!!! I am so happy for you.

Happy Birthday girlfriend!!
Love ya
Maria

Happy birthday!!!!

hugs, kat

HAPPY BIRTHDAY ALI!!!!!!

Happy Birthday! Hope you are having a wonderful day x

Happy Birthday Ali!

xoxoxo

Sunny

Hi everyone, thanks for the birthday messages! Wow, 39 now..eek!! I feel it, seeing as I just filled in our questionnaire for the fertility clinic as no bun in the oven as yet.

Clife - I too had an EA back in 2003, but my bf was very forgiving initially, although I have since discovered he had latent resentment about it! We did talk about it, but I would be the one to say, ok enough now, so on reflection we did succesfully piece after it but we 'papered over the cracks' in some respects, so my advice would be... talk talk and talk. Or, answer all of his questions at least, let him know you are now ready and able to be open and honest and completely there for HIM. As for winning back bf, yep I guess Jeff summed it up (virtually handsome).. I was a very studious DBer, I took all the advice and never let up thinking, planning, reacting to every contact from him, even when it was only a one line text telling me he had a dodgy bowel thing (ha, Jeff helped me reply to that one!)

So I got the ring back its still a buit loose but I am wearing it now so makes it more real! We have been googling venues and cupcakes and Morgan cars for hire and... god knows how we weill afford it with my debts, but we are currently favouring a rather amazing Elizabethan 16th century mansion !! Dream on...

Never hurts to dream my dear!

When the weather warms up it'll get tighter, so having it be a bit loose in the winter isn't necessarily a bad thing. Although I'm sure we have to worry about that more in Nor Cal than England lol.

Wow, Kid!!

That is great news! Congratulations on your engagement! You have come so far and are continuing to re-create your relationship into something so much better than you had before.

As for the children, things will happen as they are supposed to, love. Your happy ending is falling into place, so there will be more for you to celebrate in the near future.

Keep going strong and keep smiling, my friend.

RTL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_House

Hey Al! Just saw "Alice In Wonderland" this weekend, I think you should get married where she had her engagement party!

Wow, how beautiful!

Sounds like you have a brilliant location picked out already...

Hey girls, Rob - hows life !? Bobbi, yes, it is a great place, but then we just did a spreadsheet and we cant afford it maybe !! Damn it shouldnt have moved to such a desirable part of the country. Apparently, they got a lot of "London" weddings down here.

Well, bf is very relaxed, still ok on those 10mg, very excited about the wedding and happy to trawl around 9 venues with me, we thought we'd try and get them all hit in one weekend!

The past comes up a bit, but he always rolls his eyes now and/or teases me.. oh not THAT again! I explained Idont want to in any way upset him if something gets mentioned...its a bit like when someone dies.. people after a while stop mentioning them to you, but just because they're gone doesnt mean they are forgotton. I said it was a hugely significant time in my life that has ended up in a very happy future, but it doesnt mean that I have forgotton the things that happened and got us here. For example, there are still 3 photos of her in this house in his box of things, he has forgotton they're there (sheesh, men!) but I havent. One is of them cuddling at MY FAVOURITE BEACH!! grr. So I would prefer them to be gone and I know he would too, but I havent mentioned it in months. I want to get to the point I no longer care about it at all, and then casually mention it and let him handle it.

Other than that, we have a really solid, loving R these days, way better than our old one and we have a lot of laughs. I always have noticed that a side effect of doing alot of babymaking has been to bring us closer together. Its made us more cohesive. We wouldnt have been ML so much after 11 years together quite honestly, if it wasnt for needing to try, so its been interesting and suprising to see thats its been a really healthy thing for us, for healing the split and the past. I dont think I would have known that and I havent read it anywhere.

Love al x

You know, there is a pastor that actually preaches in a M building seminar that couples should commit to ML every night for 30 days straight. They will be amazed at the end of it how close they can become.

I'm so glad to hear that things are progressing beautifully for you and BF. Have a wonderful time planning!!!

Would you consider throwing the pics away yourself? If he has forgotten they were there, he wouldn't even notice, and you may feel better knowing they are gone??

Wow really Mish?? Well then he is a smart guy because the longer you go on ML more frequently you really do seem to get into a whole new level of closeness.

Bobbi yes I thought about it, but then I thought they are his photos so he should decide what he wants to do with them, but I am sure he will definetly want to bin them if he realised they were here!

The past rarely comes up, but sometimes something triggers it and I will refer to something I felt or did "when we were apart" and just that phrase is too much for him now. I think once these WAS come back and recommit it really is for them like it never happened, like some bad dream. Probably because they spend so long just wanting to forget about it and put it behind them. Who wants to keep reminding oneself of what an idiot you were and how badly you behaved? So seems he has effectively done that, which is good thing, as he doesnt seem to be guilt ridden anymore.

Maybe he has forgiven himself even, I think I will ask him that. I remember when we first got back togetehr and how sorry he was and how much he "hated himself" for what he had done and I kept saying, you need to forgive yourself as well, not just me forgive you.

Hey mate!!
You have got to tell me when the date is fixed. I get to wear a hat and gloves and pretend I am a stiff Brit? LOL!!

I was working on my speech on my way to work today. (I have to find something really ridiculous to say...) I hope I will make it.
M

Sounds like the plans are coming along!

Glad to hear everything is going well.

I think most of us ML like that when we first are together, and then it drops off. It definitely helps with closeness then!

OMG has it really been almost a year since you and your guy got back together??!! Just thinking it was this past Spring and yet here comes Spring agin. I am so incredibly happy for you both.

kat

Hey everyone..yes not even a year, mad hey !

I've been busy trying to organise the wedding (this July!) and still cant find a dress..eek! BF is being his usual wonderful devoted self. So wierd. He turned to me last night and said, "I'm so in love with you". Friday night we were driving through a sunny evening to a comedy show and he took my hand and said "I love you so much, everything is perfect".. such a turnaround. He used to drive me about alot when we were apart, all those meals out, back to our hometown etc. I always found the hardest part not being able to reach out and touch him or him hold my hand as couple often do when driving.

I found out recently he had seen Helen twice at work but not mentioned it as to him it was nothing, so I was ok about it. We hadnt seen her together since last July but she was in the pub we went to Friday night. There was no reason for it, but I 'knew' she'd be there and he said he did too. Intuition is a funny thing huh?

I dont think she is over him, she was stood on the over side of the room but she kept looking over as him and me, when she could! I could see over his shoulder. She was being very vivacious and OTT and got very drunk and her friends were clearly tiring of her, got her water, tried to drag her away. She came back later and stood close to our table, again looking sideways at us, but bf kept his back to her all night and didnt want to speak to her, out of respect for me he said. I sort of felt a bit sorry for her. They had an 8 month R and yet he blanked her. She must have felt humiliated.

The bad thing was, she was more attractive in the flesh than her photos looked and that threw me a bit. She was also wearing a top I own and love!! She had nice long dark hair and was taller and curvier than me.

Of course I said to him, I can see why you chose HER instead of coming back to me that summer.. he just said no, he wasnt thinking straight and just hated himself around that time. He also told me by Christmas time he began to worry that I might move away from Cornwall.. how crazy! We were barely in contact then. He said it is crazy, as looking back its obvious he knew even then he wanted to be with me.. but it was another 5 months until he finished with her.

I had an urge to go speak to her, I guess I didnt like that she was so unsettled by us being there and watching us all evening. Just a sad blip in our R I guess, but bf was VERY reassuring and loving today as he knew I was a bit sad about it.

Cornwall is just too small a place !

Funny, I WISH we bumb into her but Athens is too damn big and I am sure H would not take me to places she could be at.

Sounds like things are going very well Al.I am watching you closely and taking notes...

Happy for you dear!!
xxxx
K

Sounds lovely, Ali...except for the Helen part!

But even that was handled well by you and bf (can we call him fiance' now?)

On the touching in the car thing.....that is what makes the whole 'limbo' experience so hard, in my opinion. When Dan and I took the kids on vacation together, we spent so much time walking around together, sitting together, etc it feels like you are so close and yet so far away when you can't just reach out and grab his hand...same when riding in the car together. So glad you get to do all of that simple, daily stuff again!

Good luck finding a dress....what are you looking for? Is it a simple wedding or a fancy one?

Hey K..thankyou and ditto!!!

Hi Bobbi, how are you? I must catch up with everyones sitchs.

I have had trouble because I wanted a natural fabric, cotton or preferably silk and 90% of wedding dresses in the UK are... manmade! Polyester, satin, taffeta, tulle etc. And so expensive too! Unless you go really expensive for silk dresses.. but I have found a local seamstress here who only works with silk who is going to copy a picture of a beautiful french strapless designer dress I saw.. I will post a pic in the alt universe when its finally made! I did a sketch today of what I wanted and she is sending for silk swatches so I can choose. Excited now!

Things have settled down, we've even argued a bit recently from tiredness but its all fine and I no longer get upset or worried if we have a cross word. My Mum says I owe Helen a debt of gratitude because if she hadnt been so awful and high maintenance he may not have been so ready to properly commit and been so grateful to get back with me. He really saw the grass wasnt greener (although it was never really about that, it was really about his depression). He said again at the weekend that HE is the lucky one (as your H is K !)

I had nearly all my fertility tests and all looks 'textbook' and healthy, just one x-ray to go. Still not pg, but I managed to fast track us through the IVF NHS queues and we could start IUI by May/June, if we need it!

Thanks to all my friends here who helped me when I needed it most. I've said it before, but I feel I can never thank you all enough really. This community is an extrodinary thing.

xxx

Ali!

I'm SOOOOOOO glad to see where you're at. I'm catching up on what's been happening with you and others here. You go girl!

hugs!
Abbey

The dress sounds great! So excited to see pics.

It is so funny because Roger tells me I am so easy to get along with. He talks about some of his ex's and they sound a bit high maintenance and demanding to me, so he really appreciates it. It's a pretty cool feeling lol, although I try not to let him get TOO spoiled.

sorry for late response but... HI ABBEY!! So great to hear from you and seeing you have been piecing. I remember you stopped posting after your H came back and I wondered how things had turned out, so I'm so happy for you that you guys are still together! Hope its going well? Hi Michelle too.

I've been 'funny' since I saw Helen last week. Its not her fault, I guess it just bought up some latent resentments. He did lead me up the garden path all that summer and then dumped me effectively a 2nd time when he decided to start dating her, so in my mind (although probs not in reality).. it felt like he made a stark choice at that point, HER over me. He says not, he doesnt know what he was thinking/doing and was just "insane". He even asked me last night if I was having 2nd thoughts (about getting M)... I guess I was. Not because I think he will do it again, just part of me feels a bit of a sap for waiting for him whilst he was dating someone else. It will pass, its been a funny few weeks for many of my friends and in the world... the volcano ash is an example of how wierd life can be at times!!
x

We are all a bunch of saps then, regardless of how our stitches worked out LOL.

(((((Ali)))))
Can I say, knowing that you were not married... I thought you were crazy at times! But you stuck to a plan, you detached, you took care of yourself, and look what happened! You were not a sap! Let's say he still didn't come back. Weren't you a lot better prepared to handle that, if it had happened, than you would have been if you had not gone through the DB process?

You are proof that even in the most likely case, DBing can work. It doesn't mean it always will. But it can, if you are willing to stick with it!

Ahh, well the feeling has faded and fiance is being his usual, loving self. I realised yesterday, this is what he was like in the early years together (until his Dad got ill and he got depressed).. so loving and devoted.

Hi Jeff! Thats an interesting viewpoint. In the UK, if you are in a longterm R and living together,especially as homeowners, you are regarded as 'married' or theres no loss or difference in status alongside married couples. Most of our friends are either M or longterm LT and you wouldnt tell them apart! More than that though, I just KNEW we were meant to be together. I must have seemed crazy to peeps in RL too! Afterall he had seemingly 'moved on' to a new GF, although I was told by friends (and fiance!)since that noone really believed he had moved on, even when he was with Helen!

I'm actually feeling a bit lonely, or maybe sad. I read someone posting about how you can NOW mourn what happened as at the time, you couldnt because you were DBing. Or I see it that I was DBing, you arent then accepting or mourning thats it over, as you maintain hope and it keeps the old R as if present and current. Now I can look back and realise I was single and heartbroken.

Now the questions have stopped, its behind us, we are back where we were and its like I dreamt it.. I feel sad about what we went through (him too). I had to do a work visit yesterday to where he moved when he left me and I drove to his apartment and looked in the garden into the rooms...I felt so sad standing there and like it wasd down a long distant tunnel, that girl who would have LOVED to have been invited to that flat. I could still remember how I felt.. and I cant believe how much I cried. Wow, I cried every day for 4 months when he left me and for a year in all.

I'm not explaining very well, but nearly a year on, now I am mourning it, quietly.

Ohh Al!! That girl did a good job listening to her instict!! I understand how you feel sad, I went to H's little one bedroom apartment on Sunday, but didnt go in.

I was wondering, can anyone from the long time piecers tell us, do these feelings EVER go away, or just fade? I think I will start a thread with this question...
Hugs
K

Quote:

I was wondering, can anyone from the long time piecers tell us, do these feelings EVER go away, or just fade? I think I will start a thread with this question...

You just gradually think about it less and less. Occasionally things remind you 'sharply' of what happened....but the good times you have banked since reconciling start to put those sharp reminders in perspective. You d need to grieve the 'death' of the old M though and what happened.

Hi Ali and everyone,

Just was going through some of the threads on piecing. I'm no where near it, but someone on the board suggested that I read Ali's sitch. So this way I wouldn't give up!

I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm really happy for all of you that are piecing!! With the Lord's help I hope to be piecing some day!!

It will be 18 months for me on May 6th since I got the bomb and our anniversary is on the 9th so I was down and out and losing hope so I hopped over here to get some.

Thanks

Hey K.. wow you too huh? I wouldnt have wanted to go in either.. thats where he started/conducted his R with Helen, the scene of the crime. It still hurts, especially since we saw her recently.

I agree with Saffie, the innocence of an untarnised R is behind you and you have to accept loss of exclusivity. In my case there was a very public split and a new GF (I found out recently some other very new friends of ours here in Cornwall also got to meet her!! The W was very embarressed when she admitted it to me, but then, its past hey). BUT the further away it receedes and the more new memories you build, the less it matters. Except when you bump into ow in a pub, grrrr !!!

Hey Goodfight, I'm sorry its been a while for you, but I am so glad if this thread helps.

I had MIL to stay all weekend, I enjoyed being more in an cemented role in his life than last June when she stayed with us a month after reconciling (was a nightmare, she barely spoke to me). It went well, although she was rather self involved (poor fiance)..at least I am accepted once again for her precious son!

I felt VERY emotional and very loved up with him all weekend (he was too).. I tried to explain why by starting with..I missed you so much when we were apart.. but he snapped at me "I KNOW".. when I asked why he snapped, he said, it was the guilt, he STILL just feels so guilty, for hurting me. I said my point was about appreciating him and not taking him for granted since, not about the hurt.. which he liked, and apologised for being short with me, but his Mum had been hard work, so he was just transferring. I said he needs to try and stop being so guilt ridden, I was over OM but I'm not guilty anymore (well, only when I really think about it!).. he said, it wasnt revenge - you do know that? I said of course I do.

Its amazing how much you can hurt one another and yet find a way through to being in love again. How much turbulence a relationship can weather. I can honestly say we have a better, more loving equal R now and I love and appreciate him more than I did before and that I am happier than ever. But... yep, still affecting me! Still making me emotional at times, when will it end hey!?

Well...my MRI/prolactin is all fine, but I got a little medication for my Thyroid (tired all the time etc) and thats supposed to help with fetility issues. This month is our 6th of trying and we are still hopeful.

The wedding plans are going well. We got fiance's suit on the weekend, a beautiful 3 piece in Italian cotton/mohair blue fabric. He looked so tall and handsome my stomach somersaulted and I nearly cried when he came out of the changing room

. I rushed over and said you look soooo handsome I just have to kiss you, arent I a lucky girl marrying a guy like you!? The shop assistants were all laughing and bf looked all puffed up with pride. Wow, it was a defining moment and felt like the start of a new future. I'm so excited about the wedding, its going to be an amazing day and a fitting 'end' to these past few years.

Love Al xxx

So very happy for you, Al...

How wonderful! That sounds like an amazing moment to capture in your memories forever.

Enjoy!

You both are incredibly lucky! I am really happy for you.

hugs, kat

How awesome!!!!!

Hi Ali,

I am happy and excited for you!

I don't think I have posted on your threads before, but I've been reading.

Any astrological news? What do you think about today's full moon? Or is it considered yesterday's now.

Bobbi, Mish, Kat, Michelle.. thankyou, it was a special moment. Wholeagain, I'm glad if it helps you at all.

So.. we saw Helen last night. AGAIN! I found it very hard, she was at band night with a gf, sat near to us. She stalked past our table several times, swinging her hips, swishing her hair. BF ignored her (out of respect for me he said). I felt she was like last time, very aware of bf, watching us, being vivacious and smiling alot and sashaying about.. "look at how well I am doing, F-you, look at what you are missing".

I didnt make a drama, or mention it. Still, Cher turned to me unprompted and said, dont worry, she is just trying to get a reaction but bf isnt going to give her one... so my instincts were right. BF was very reassuring as always, said, its you I want to be with and marry, I ended it with her because I knew I wanted to be with you. For some reason that made me only feel more nervous !

I found it hard because... she is attractive. I spoke to him about it and he got upset, said "you are doubting me".. I said I wasnt doubting HIM, I was doubting MYSELF. I find the fact that she was being so confident, vivacious and clearly affected by his presence after nearly a year apart, quite intimidating. Also, it made me nervous she was out again where we were, almost as though she knew.. he said she emailed him occassionally, purely about work and she might put "Good morning" etc (but I already knew this) but NO he had no idea she would be there, and was most insistent and I believe him, of course.

He really didnt see that there was any issue and spent a long time kissing and reassuring me and telling me how beautiful and funny and smart etc etc I was. Its not his fault, or her fault, this is my issue, a residue of insecurity after he led me up the garden path 2008 to turn around and dump me almost, a 2nd time for her..

I explained this to him, that he made a stark choice.. her instead of getting back with me and I asked him again.. WHY? He thought hard and said... because, I felt we had broken up and therefore we had broken up for a reason.. so... (I guess she was just someone new, someone not me). He said its stupid looking back as I clearly wanted to be with you all along, I just made very poor decisions and thats because I cant stress how mental I felt during that time.

I said she seemed like a nightmare (loud) he agreed she was loud, but it wasnt fair to say she was a nightmare.. but she could be.. volatile.

To me she looked edgy, confident, pretty, bigger boobs, brunette and... high maintenance. All my insecurities about age and my boyish figure and my crap hair came to the surface.

But... she has no power over me or us and we were fine last night.. absolutely fine.

You my dear are beautiful on both the inside and out.

He is with you because he chooses to be.

And you are with him because you choose to be.

If he didn't want to be with you, he wouldn't be.

That pretty much shows everything you need to know.

She was probably putting on an act also, as you and husband-to-be were there. His reactions just show how strongly he feels about you and also that she no longer has any power and clearly no allure to him.

He loves and is marrying you

(((Ali)))

Al, as much as upsetting this is, I would KILL for a chance for my H to show OW he chose me over her, for good...
Think about it..
Love
K

Michelle, thanks for that and you're right - thats what he said too!
Julia, how are you now? I am following along your new life in Bangkok!!

Maria - what a good point. Yes, surreal being at the legendary band night, the scene of many failed and then succesful plots to see him and get back together (we met at band night the night before reconciling)..going there with Cher and G with the fear he would turn up with Helen.. so yes, full circle alright. Its amazing, he was SO unbothered she was there, certainly less than me, he didnt care to notice her and even forgot she was there he said (poor Helen). When they are done, they really are DONE. One for you to think about hey??

We are back where we were, before his Dad died. I wont say its perfect..but I am very very happy in his company and life is good...so why, oh why, do my eyes stray to good looking guys when we go out with friends? Is it that part of me resents that he got to go date someone else in the middle of our 11 year R?? Just have to suck that one up, as they say.

Its 14 years since we met (love at first sight for him).. I was going to talk about this in my speech at the wedding.

Ali, It is so nice to see someone complete the circle in a good way.

It is great to see the progress that you both continue to make.

I am reminded of what K(my friend) said to me just a few weeks ago, "She may have said that(something he remembered many years later) but I am here with you, not her". There in lies the truth. He is there because he want to be with YOU!

I hope happiness continues to light your path.

hugs, kat

Thanks Kat and yes, she is history. I feel a bit obsessed with her actually, very bizarre, like a morbid fascination.. why!?! I was never remotely interested in any of bf's exGF's. Seeing her and how attractive she is was hard, as I was confronted with the thing we NEVER talked about..that of course he had s*x with her..and no doubt enjoyed it. A horrible thought, but its just flesh hey, it was never a soul connection.

I still feel a bit embarressed and humiliated that she was so integrated in his life.. but then he does too of course! Just seems even more bizarre as we are now getting married. None of the speeches will be mentioning the fact we split up for 18 months and how they all met Helen and that he was with her this time last year! Its just all a bit wierd, not a 'normal' trajectory for a relationship. Not to any of my friends in RL anyway, which is why its nice to come here and talk to all of you!

I have tried to talk to him about the wierdness of his behaviour and how now its like it never even happened. He just says "I cant explain". I think it will take a few years to be forgotton and I'm looking forward to that.

You only have more reasons to appreciate what you have now. People IRL consider weird everything that is not usual. "Can we watch a TV now? You don't have a TV!?! you... are... weird!!!" lol

Are you generally a jealous type? Despite of insecurities I might have (I have one "envy area"), I am plain jealous. I don't act out on it, but it plain sucks!

I've seen one of ex's ex. I was disappointed she wasn't as pretty nor mature as I somehow thought she would have been. Often it's not worth energy thinking much about other person. (I think I'm not speaking English at this point, going to bed now. Have a wonderful day!)

Ali, all that you are feeling is perfectly natural and I guess you have to feel it to process it.

Quote:

Just seems even more bizarre as we are now getting married. None of the speeches will be mentioning the fact we split up for 18 months and how they all met Helen and that he was with her this time last year!

Lol- let's hope not anyways - makes me think of that film Four Weddings and a funeral.....don't hire Hugh Grant as the Best Man

Saffie,
if I make it to the wedding, I have a speech. Maybe that is why Al stopped asking me if I am going...

Ha well invites in the post today sunbeam!

WholeAgain - I'm not a jealous person, AT ALL! Thats whats so wierd. I would just like some more clarity from him, there are still some unanswered questions and he has had time to reflect, but, just got to let it go!

I was thinking something lately and then I saw you posted M, about doing things for you.. I want to get back into my art, or creative stuff anyway. I'd like to study photography (a very Piscean pasttime - illusion and 'dreams'). Doing things that feed my soul take the focus off the past and just generally worrying too much about stuff...I'm knitting a bag right now!

(K.. I'm really hoping you can make it, it would be brilliant, but I am worried about this speech, lol!!)

Why wouldn't any of the speeches mention it? Why have it be the elephant in the room?

It is what it is - the past. It happened. You both grew, and came back together stronger and better. The people who are important to you both should understand that it doesn't take away from what you have now.

Because he feels guilty and ashamed, or would do.. its not something we did, its something he did TO me. Anyway, I asked him and he was horrified at the thought! He said he definetly wouldnt want any rfeference made to our split, or what happened, on our wedding day of all days. And my Mum and Dad would get upset I think, so gonna have to be a white elephant, but its a joyous occassion so dont suppose it will be what people are thinking about.

Anyway, I am mad right now, furious - unlike me. His company got taken over and the phones were cut and they were issued mobiles yesterday - I just snooped and found Helen called twice today and he called her.I asked him if he had any contact with her (he is back working on one of her projects) and he said.. no !!

So we had a row about it, but he insists that someone borrowed his phone in his office and must have called her and it wasnt him. He said of course he doesnt care about her and is marrying me (I know, I know!)

I explained how hard it is for me, with them still in some work contact, becuase after what happened, I learnt that you cannot be complacent and there are no gaurantees.

He gave me some reasuring hugs then...

OMG! That would have completely sent me into a tizzy! So glad he was reassuring and loving toward you.

Hope your evening is GREAT!

It's great you are not a jealous person! You must know what you want to know and why.

There should be point at which you will trust him to sort things out with Helen himself. You both can get worn off from snooping and mistrusting pretty fast.

Is he planning on getting a new job?

I'd probably say something in the lines of "I'm sorry I snooped. I realize I want to trust you and don't want to be left wondering." Then I'd ask whatever there's to ask including changing his job. But that's coming from me, a jealous person, I'd rather him switch his job and deal with his ex without involving me than him having to reassure me every other day. If anything, that does not look pretty.

Anyways, I hope you won't have a row over that again.

Are you busy with wedding planning, or have you got most of the things done?

Hey girls. No, he cant change jobs, there is only one company he can work for! (He's a geologist). I wouldnt ask him to though. Plus he was totally cool with me 'snooping' and has said I can look at his phone/email anytime (I stressed that I dont normally). He told me how little he cares about her and that he moved on, long ago. He's done feeling guilty for hurting her, he doesnt feel he needs to anymore. He carries enough guilt for hurting me.

I asked him some more questions about why he left. He said "you werent being very nice to me".. I got VERY upset at this, as I was devoted and very caring to him!! He explained, I felt like you never listened, that my opinion didnt matter, that you would overrule me, particularly financially. My communication was too strong and I didnt allow him be the man and make decisions, I used to listen without actively listening. I am not like that now.

I reminded him that when I realised this, I DID change, spent months being more equal, loving and he still left. He agreed and said but he had 'gone in on himself' and depressed by then and he was at fault for not talking to me, but bottling it all up till he 'snapped'. So, blame on both sides and typical WAS, he concealed how unhappy he was until it was too late. But that mainly, he felt that he had had a breakdown.

I am drivng his Mum to hospital today for heart surgery.. fingers crossed that goes well !!

Fingers crossed!

Wishing everything to go well for your future MIL.

I hope all goes ok. Maybe we can chat tomorrow...
Love
K

Yes, be lovely to talk to you later this evening.

She's on the operating table right now, gosh I'm nervous. BF is waiting for news.

They held the General Election here last week whilst Mercury was Retrograde - so the result was 'hung' and unclear.. they are finally near a decision, as Mercury went stationary direct today. We will know what our Government will be by the time Mercury goes forwards tommorow...the politicians should have consulted their astrologers! David Cameron (Tory, right wing) sadly has the best chart to win

Well it looks as if the stars were right!

I had an interesting convo with bf last night. Some things have happened that bought up some bad memories from May 2007 onwards..so I asked him about the frankly brutal way he left.

He said he still feels SO bad and always will for what he did. That it was a massive mistake, that he was terribly mistaken when he decided to leave me and that it was by far the biggest mistake of his life, that he cannot stress enough what a massive mistake it was and what a terrible decision he made. That it was like a million times the biggest mistake of his life and he will never stop feeling bad about it.

He said he doesnt want to tell me what to feel and my feelings are real and understandable, but that he has to remind me, he was also feeling dreadfully unhappy when he left and not in a good place himself, but that he is a million miles away from that now. That he is doing all the right things to ensure that never happens again - he's on AD's, exercising alot, drinking very little and going to stress busters.

He said he never wants to put us through that ever again, he has no intentions of doing that and that he wants to live with me forever. That he understands why I still get upset at times, but he hopes that it will stop now and that we can put it behind us and not keep referring to it, we should look to the future now.

He had played me a song about "instant connections" and recounted the story of the first time he met me 14 years ago, how it was love at first sight and how rare it is to truly "get" someone and they to get you.. I said, but i said all that to you the night of the bomb and you dismissed it as irrelevant...

You know, things really can turn around, 360 degrees, but it has taken nearly 3 years. Amazing.

So...MIL is fine, thank god! Sat up in bed, moaning about the lazy staff! *rolls eyes*

Good news about Mil!!!

I am so jealous of the convos you have with him. Its like washing all the hurtful things away. Little by little, more every time. I hope you realise how precious those convos are.And he really CANT repeat more times how bad he feels etc etc...

How does he feel about the wedding preparations? How is the dress? What will you do with your hair? Shoes? Where are you going for honeymoon?
K

BTW, do you have a paypal account and if yes, which email is it connected to?

Hey Ali,

It's been a real lift for me today to read your story. I'm so happy for you both.

Nice to find another one of those rare UK residents on here too.

I do hope the wedding is fantastic!

I was going to add how lucky I felt that he is able to express these things to me now and with such clarity, like he didnt pre-bomb!! Yes K, I agree, it washes away the past. I was crying down the phone to him last night (he's been away for days).. it had bought up so many memories of when he left: him back home and me here, not knowing where he was, or with whom, him carrying on seeing friends 'business as usual' and me, so devastated I could hardly function. He said when I join him later this week, it will put an end to those bad memories and 'close the circle'. Bless him !!

He is VERY excited about the wedding, shopping for a wedding shirt past 3 days. I dont know what I am going to do about hair, makeup shoes etc, eek!! Met the seamstress this week, she is confident about my dress. It is so far based on 4 or 5 dresses I like, so I dont know what it will end up like!!! Eek again.

He is sorting the honeymoon, either Iceland, Italy or.. Greek islands (lush)! (no PayPal, sorry!)

Lees - I'm glad, but so sorry you find yourself here. My bf was ADAMANT it was "over for good" etc.

Re the seamstress - my wife had a beautiful dress made via a similar experience. She hated every minute of the fussing and the fittings, but all her friends loved it!

You must let us know how it turns out. Maybe Iceland isn't the place for HM given the volcano issues! I do know some good friends who got married and had HM in Tuscany, and had the most wonderful time. Lake Como is also a lovely italian destination.

Ali,

I wanted to post to say how VERY, VERY happy I am for you and bf. Congratulations on your wedding plans! Your positive attitude has always been an inspiration to me. I haven't posted much since my D was final in December, but really appreciated your kindness in coaching me in the past. Your bf is very lucky to have you in his life. Thank you for continuing to share your insights.

For what it's worth, (X)H and I honeymooned in Italy a few years back and we positively LOVED Venice.....we also thought the Vatican Museum rivaled the Louvre.

Best wishes for a long, happy future together!

GAG

Thank you for your lovely posts. I think you have all persauded me Italy is the place to go! We have always wanted to go there, but for us its an expensive option, so maybe we should go for it!

Things arent perfect for me, I'm not pregnant this month again, so thats 6 months of trying now and of course, my fertility is dropping off drastically every year that goes by at my age, so its frustrating that time keeps trickling by. BF says dont worry, but I have to admit I'm getting a little worried now. And sad about it. I have a HSG soon and then they will start giving us help, which I am dreading really! I hate doctors and being 'messed with' medically. Just got to keep on keeping on...

Hang in there Ali, my neighbors on either side went thru the same thing. Both were successful. Both had "help", as did I.
I was extremely needle-shy most of my life...you may find that you adjust to the being "messed with," & your tolerance is increased.

Sending positive thoughts your way...it helped my neighbor (not that I can take full credit;)

Sunny

Keep trying Al. It only takes a second to happen. But you may need many seconds of...preparation. In Greece docs give at least a year to couples before talking about "help".
Keep your thoughts positive. Stress is a big no no in this situations.
Hugs
K

THanks girls, that helps. I guess theres more of it about than you realise as people normally keep it quiet! Yes its the same here K, minimum year and some places 2-3 before they will help. We fibbed and said we had been trying for ages ! We didnt mention we had been apart.

Its probably best I'm not pg yet, I wouldnt want to be vomming at my wedding !!

If you remember I needed help with the first 3(#4 was a surprise). I used Clomid so other than blood work no needles. Because it was taking longer with # 2 they did inject a dye in my Fallopian tubes to see if their was a blockage. Shortly after pg with #2. It will happen. Focus on the wedding now and enjoy it since it is just a couple of months away.

kat

Hey Kat, yes I am having the dye injection next week, I'm dreading it in case I get an infection (our hospital here is in top 3 worst in England!). My progesterone has been fine so they havent said I need Clomid.

My hair has been falling out again. My iron/thyroid/prolactin are all ok now. I had another very bad dream about Helen last night. I've had some stinkers since we saw her those 2 times. I read that hair falls out a few months after a stressful event/time. BF reminded me last week how worried he was about me when we saw her as I was literally shaking like a leaf half the evening, had a dry mouth and felt very stressed, full on fight or flight mode, it was amazing the physical reaction I had to seeing her. I havent shook like that since the engines powered down banking hard over Las Vegas in 2000 (I thought the plane had stalled !!!). I wonder if this has caused my hair to fall out - the shock of being confronted with her.

I'm still processing seeing her those times - she has become this almost mythical, impressive, s&xy creature in my mind. He is done with her whereas I am rapidly putting her on a pedestal !!

I need to talk to him again about this, as he just doesnt understand my paranoia about her. He thinks we are getting M, so its all in the past and means nothing now. But I am also being very appreciative and 'loved up' - I spring through the door and jump into his arms - literally! and shower him with kisses. I tell him he looks sexy/handsome. He told me he LOVES that I am like this with him. Loves it. And so he reciprocates.

I don't know because I am not in your place but I would say only worry about her if he gives you cause to worry. As far as I can see he has no contact with her, ignores her when he does see her and is marrying you. Sorry to be blunt Al

What exactly is it that worries you specifically?

Hi Julia! I dont worry about her perse, I know he is done and theres NO way he would leave again, or change his mind and want her back....It just that I had never met her before, she was this person everyone told me was no competition, he had no chemistry with, she was annoying, loud, it wouldnt last, blah blah (the story of her downing a bottle of beer at the traffic lights was classic). So I 'dismissed' her in my mind.

But having seen her.. she smiles alot, she's confident, vivacious, has long dark lovely hair, a good figure (bit fatter than me) yes loud...but all these things to me seem.. exciting, edgy, seductive!

I emailed him and told him "its built up into this mythical creature in my mind and something to be afraid of, whether I match up. I know its ridiculous. I just feel reduced, minimised, small.."

He replied "its not ridiculous to feel that way but that doesn�t mean there is any substance to it. In my eyes you are the opposite of all those things you feel, you are bigger and better than anyone I know. And I love you!"

Hon, you said it yourself...in your eyes not his. Did you ever think she is acting that way in front of both of you to try to get his attention? She is probably just as insecure as the rest of us mere mortals. Put it to rest. He is marrying you.

kat

Yes I thought that too Kat, if I were in her shoes, I would want to 'put on a show', I am sure.

The better things get, the more upset I get about the past. We are doing our wedding music, songs that matter to us, songs I listened to when he went NC the second time. Theres one lyric in a special song "and I wonder where you are now".

I remember listening to that and crying and crying, when he was seeing Helen and I didnt even know where he was, or where he was living. How he spent his time, with her.

We all have our wounds from these sitches and for me, it was that - it was incomprehensible that this person who I was so close to for 12 years could stop all contact with me and I didnt even know where he lived.

We have talked alot, but theres alot we havent talked about. That summer when he stopped contact and started seeing her and left me to find out from his friends and then deal with our tenants and rerenting our house without so much as a text message even. It just feels so cruel and yet, this is the man who lies beside me every day? Explaining it here makes me realise how upset I am, in fact.

And I dont really buy that it was because he was in a terrible state/depressed/bad place - he had just started a new relationship !! He admitted to me that it was new and different and he thought he was happy with her in the beginning. I also am having trouble forgetting the photos I sadly saw. The ones of her tousled and smiling contentdly in bed, where he had taken photos from the foot of the bed, seem to be emblazoned on my mind. I keep saying... but you must have loved her, or had amazing s*x to have been inspired to jump out of bed and take her picture afterwards...Now we are so ok.. that just kills me.

Theres me asking K to work on letting it go and of course I need to also! I dont say much to bf about it and there is no way I would leave him of course. Its just a difficult time, a last bit of processing maybe.

I guess I feel under quite a bit of stress trying to 'forget', maybe thats why my hair is falling out !!

Don't be hard on yourself. He put you through a lot, it is going to take time to process. I think rather than trying to forget it, which is very difficult, you should just try and focus on the future. I always like to think of moving forward rather than forgetting and moving on. That period is an important part of your past, you wouldn't be where you are now without it.

(((Ali)))

Very well said Julia. That is so true, without our past we wouldn't be the people we are today. That person that he left is no longer in existence. You are both learning new, exciting things about each other and building a whole new life and future that couldn't have happened before.

You haven't had to buy any wigs yet have you?????

Ah how true.. we are who were are from what we went through and I am grateful for that as I am happier and more appreciative of things now, I dont sweat the small stuff and I rememner to enjoy the good stuff..

I had the HSG and ended up in hospital as I was in so much pain! It was a bit scary but I am fine now. It led me to push the fertility clinic a bit and they just caled and offered to put us on the list today for free IVF as well as IUI ! I am in shock. We were meant to wait till at least August to just discuss the HSG and becuase I was proactive..they did a case review yesterday on us and within 2 days come back with a decision for IVF!! People wait months and years for a decision like that.

Funny thing is, after me being hospitalised, we decided last night we didnt want anymore medical intervention, so this is just a safety net, the first appointment isnt till September anyway so we will keep trying.

Life keeps rolling on and I do believe these relationships grow back better and stronger and more loving after the shock and grief of separation. Its true, you really dont know the value of what you had till its gone...

Ain't that the truth Ali. I'm so sorry you were in hospital, I hope you are ok now.

Great news on the IVF though - amazing NHS sometimes!

That is absolutely amazing that they made the determination for IVF so quickly!!!! Just one more positive step Ali. WONDERFUL!

So sorry you were sick and in the hospital. That is such a traumatic thing to go through. Glad bf was supportive and loving through it all.

Keep stepping forward and savoring your new life. I'm so happy for you!!!!

Glad you are feeling better!

Enjoy all the trying

Thanks girls! Yes, well I soldiered on an we managed to get back to the babymaking fast, cant afford to miss a month ! It was a scary thing though, they said I had peritonitis!! Seems chemical, rather than the infected kind, at least it didnt develop into that (you can be brown bread pretty fast with that!)

We all have new lives hey. Jupiter and Uranus moved into Aries.. its a new 7 year cycle and all about change. Julia travelling the world, Mish back in the arms of her husband (WOW!) Michelle in a committed R, Maria on holiday as a family.. gosh if only we could have had a crystal ball a year or two ago and saved us all the angst of watching, waiting and wondering !!

Al xx

Sorry you were so sick, Ali. Was that caused by something the doctors did? What is HSG? Would they really go to IVF without trying clomid first?

Yes it was a reaction to the HSG, the dye they used, or volume of liquid inflamed my peritineum, apparently! The HSG itself was excrutiatingly painful, I screamed and cried!!

Yes we wondered if there arent some low tech solutions, before they resorted to IUI/IVF. BF said I should get tested for Thyroid Antibodies and NK cells, the latest theory is your immune system can be 'over geared' and go on the attack. This isnt available on the NHS, but it would be much cheaper than IVF! Its amazing we got approved so quick, but I think we will just keep trying naturally for now...

Definitely keep the trying going Ali!

I'm sure you have read all the various natural signals the body puts out when ovulating but just in case this one was missed I thought I'd throw it out there.

****WARNING TO ALL MEN AND SQUEEMISH WOMEN*****
****DO NOT READ****

Have you checked your mucous daily? The secretions that are naturally released during ovulation become thick and stringy. You actually have to put it between your thumb and forefinger and stretch it. If you can stretch it to at least 1 inch before it breaks then you most likely have just ovulated or will within 24 hours.

Just another thing to add to your arsenal!

Thanks Mish !!! I did notice

and also, I did the tests this month (only second time) and bought more expensive digital ovulation tests and they worked ! And it know when it was, as I had terrible ovulation pains for a few hours and had to take painkillers! Funny huh. I was expecting that though, after the HSG.

Well the HSG is supposed to improve your chances, as it 'flushes' everything out!

Just been to try my dress on.. shes done a brilliant job, but I'm not sure I like it !

What don't you like about it?

I went with the hand woven silk, which is pretty stiff and thicker than silk crepe, so it has less drape. It sticks out and is A-line, which isnt a shape I normally go for! I wish I'd gone for the figure hugging crepe instead.

She did the empire line though, with a ruched bust and a lovely little sash under, which I wanted and a matching lacey bolero.. and I am having 'waves' of organza hugging the dress from under the bust to the floor.. like the sea. So thats all good, I'm just not sure the overall effect actually suits me !!

That sounds positively lovely Ali!

Can you have the skirt refitted to something more straight lined?

That does sound lovely!

You'll be gorceous!!! No doubt about it!

Ah thanks.... not if my hair keeps dropping out, lol! So heres is the 3 pictures that inspired my dress design! But not as floaty (cos of the stiffer silk):

This basic idea, with a sash and corsage with a little short sleved lace bolero
http://www.jacasei.com.br/artigos/fotos/cymbeline-bridal/014-cy-doa.jpg

Strapless with a belt like this and this type of skirt with organza waves:
http://www.robe-et-soiree.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/robe-de-mariee-alarie-emilie-costa.jpg

But with only 4 or 5 folds like this (but in silk organza):
http://www.robedelamariee.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/dawa-robe-de-mariee-2010-cymbeline.jpg

So um.... not sure what its going to end up looking like !!
I just called the seamstress about my worries, but she is on holiday for 2 weeks !! Oh dear...

Those are all beautiful. I'm sure that if she is a seamstress worth her salt that she can see your vision and come up with something that matches it.

Enjoy all the planning and let the worry about the dress go for now. What choice do you have? She's on holiday!

Two things:

(1) Trust him -- he was in horrible pain. Find compassion. The GF was a fantasy fix -- their R wasn't really about either of them, but rather self-medicating.

(2) Don't mess with your fertility. Go as soon as possible. Do the IVF as soon as possible. IVF won't work forever, and your chances plummet with every month that goes by. Right now, your chances are not great. In six months, they'll be much worse. My doc tried to push me to move faster, I didn't. I look young, menopause comes late in my family, a few months won't matter, my previous pregnancy no problem, blah blah blah. Multiple IUIs, 4 rounds of IVF, no pregnancy, no sibling for DD. Stop fooling yourself. You are already having problems. Egg quality declines incredibly quickly, no matter how regular your periods. IVF is really not that big of a deal. Shots are really not a big deal, the procedures are minor. It is somewhat tough physically and emotionally for a short while, more exhausting and draining than anything else, but it ends in a short while too. Good luck, but really, if you want your own children and don't want to use donor eggs, act NOW. BTW, there are plenty of online support communities for IVF that can be helpful if you AVOID getting caught up in the drama.

Hey OT, thanks for posting your story.

I do trust him, implicitly, I always did! He was never a womaniser. There is a tiny fraction of me that isnt as complacent as I was before and I dont like it when he has to work with her (there are only 2 organisations here that do what they do so he works on their projects sometimes), but I think thats only natural.

I also had compassion for him all the time we were separated and I think thats key to DBing. To be forgiving and compassionate. I say to him that it isnt possible to love him anymore than I already do.

As for the IVF, thanks for the encouragement! Its hard to know whats the 'right' thing to do. Ideally, I wouldnt want ANY medical intervention, but its been 6 months. They have said we are "unexplained", although 6 months of trying isnt THAT long, time is against us so we are on the list for IVF

Things are going great. Little things..since I got upset that he had phoned her on his mobile after saying he had had no contact with her and he insisted it was his work colleagues sharing phones.. he has stopped bringing his work mobile home. I am sure its just so that he doesnt risk upsetting me, becuase there will be times he has to call her for work, but there is nothing to worry about and he cant keep repeating that.

There are still times I feel an urge to mention the past, in the context of appreciating the now compared to the then...but he ALWAYS grimaces and doesnt like it. He said he was sorry, he knows its selfish of him, but it just still makes him feel so bad for how he behaved. I really virtually never mention it though.

Other than that, he is his usual devoted self and we are super busy with wedding plans! And we got a date to start IUI, 28th July... So why do I feel so down and a bit lonely lately ???

You miss ME!!!! LOLOL

Lets do some "over the phone" therapy. We both seem to need it...
M

Yes! Its true! A chat would be lovely. I am out early the next few nights, but home later.

Its a shame you cant be at my Hen do and meet everyone and everyone whose heard so much about you, meet you! I have rented a fabulous, pure English country cottage, all beamed ceilings, inglenook fireplaces, fantastic views across the Cotswolds (lovely part of England) and oldy worldy beautiful villages nestling in valleys.. where we are going horse trekking !! And then back to the cottage for facepacks, manicures, dinner, champagnes and cheesey music

OMG Ali! That sounds like so much fun.

Enjoy it!

Ditto!

Ali,

Which part of the Cotswolds will you be trekking in? I trailer my horse over there sometimes and there is a fantastic ride down to a Roman villa, amongst many other lovely rides.

That sounds like a lovely time. When is the date in July? I am getting so excited for you.

kat

Saffie - is that Chedworth?? I love it there ! Lucky you. We are trekking in valleys near Slad/Bisley. I nearly booked a ride from Stanton stables (my favourite Cotswold village!) but I couldnt match up with a cottage big enough for everyone.

Girls, thanks.. date is 10th July Kat.. and I still havent got a dress!!!

I decided I was going to be brave and ask the seamstress to change the fabric, but when I phoned her the day after my fitting, she had left for a cruise ! She's not back until Sunday.. 4 weeks to go..

Jupitor...is it really supposed to be good for everyone now?

Just under a month Ali!! I am so excited.

kat

Oh I'm not sure Kat, but certainly for Ariens! (its just gone into Aries). Oh and Venus moved into Leo, so thats good for them, Venus and Jupiter are the two greater benefics, as they call them.

I'm feeling a bit low still. The black dog has come sniffing back around by this weekend, seems because bf stopped taking his ADs a week ago (trying to wean off them perhaps). It was a beautiful sunny weekend and we had lots of fun plans, but he was quiet, low, unenthusiastic.. etc. He reassured me it was NOT me, it was him and how he gets, for no reason. I made him take a tablet. I feel for him, but I'm a happy, optimistic person normally (as he said) so I did find it disheartening, especially as I realised at the weekend we are again, not pregnant. So thats 7 months of targeted trying and nothing.

I lined up the IVF as a precaution, but this weekend I realised we are going to need it afterall which upsets me. I wanted it to just happen naturally.. but as we all know here, we cant always get what we want..

Well, the seamstress rang and is happy to make changes, so I am seeing her today. Phew!

So sorry about the troubles. Why is bf trying to wean off the AD's? I know neither of you esecially likes taking meds but in his case it seems prudent to stay on them for a while longer. Honestly, there are people that must stay on them the rest of their lives because their depression is not situational, but is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that can only be helped by meds.

On a lighter note......what kind of fabric are you going to change to?

Ummm...weaning means he should drop down from whatever his original does was to just one pill a day for a couple weeks...then one every other day for a couple weeks...then one every third day for a couple weeks. By then he can probably just stop. But you can't just not take one for a week. Any doctor would tell him that.

SO GLAD ABOUT THE DRESS!!!!!!!!

Hang in there chica.

Thanks girls - Mish, he's been doing so well, I just think he thought he'd try. He's back on them now and fine! Guess he will have to stay on them for life or certainly a few years yet.

So the seamstress rang, she ordered the silk crepe and chiffon Tuesday, it arrived the next day and she has made the new dress already! I have to go try it on Monday. This one is now bias cut! (LOL, I didnt ask for that) so I now have no idea what dress I am getting, but she said the chiffon did sit better with the ruching, so hopefully it will be lovely! I cant ask her to make a 3rd, so its gonna have to be!

She is amazing!!! That was so fast! I'm sure she knows what looks best according to which materials. I can't wait to hear your take on it.

Sounds really good Ali! I'm getting so excited for you and bf.

Can't wait to see how it goes!!!! She's fast!

If he can cut his dose down, that would be a nice start. But unfortunately with those types of meds you can't do anything sudden. I can totally understand not wanting to be on pills all the time, but if it is what he needs right now, then definitely need to stick with it.

Well I saw the dress and it was lovely! She's done a fantastic job and fast yes. Wow she is good! She told me she makes costumes for the Duchy Royal Ballet and I'm not surprised. The silk crepe is light and floaty and completely different to the last dress, it felt weightless, cool, feminine. And the chiffon sits better than the organza so overall, a completely different dress! Its amazing the difference the fabric makes, of course.

We still have lots of wedding stuff to do, like write our vows and find readings and paint pebbles. And we've had extra people asking to come, which is cool with us, we just need to let the venue know, more the merrier! Excited...

Paint pebbles? What is that about?

HOW FUN!!!!!

So glad you are happy with the dress!!!! It sounds BEAUTIFUL!!!!

Sounds amazing Ali!

Pebbles..from the beach, painted with peoples first names so they know where they are sitting ! We just did the table names, they're funny, all classic films.. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, The Great Escape, Back to the Future.. and we have done a quiz for each table on their film, to get people chatting.

Classic question for the Back to the Future table.. at what speed did the Delorian go back in time ??? ...

How fun!!!!!!!!

88MPH

Gimme another one! That is such a fabulous idea Ali. You are so creative.

"Eighty eight miles an hour Marty !!"

OK.... what year flashes up on screen for when the film is set in the opening scenes of Indiana Jones and the raiders of the lost Ark ??

Is it 1936?

Oh I think it was, well done Mish! So..I cant remember if I posted this, but there's an eclipse tommorow. For those who remember me rambling about astrology here, bf, or me and bf, or our R were always very eclipse led. I have a list of significant events that happened on eclipses, including:

First confessed he loved me, total Solar eclipse in Leo, direct on my Moon � August 22nd 1998
First kiss � Solar eclipse in Aquarius, 13th Feb
Moved in with me officially on Solar eclipse - July 1st 2000
We moved to Cornwall, day of solar eclipse, 22nd September 2006
First bomb, told me he wanted to leave - day of Lunar eclipse, 28th Aug 2007
Packed his suitcase and moved out � day of Solar eclipse in Pisces, 11th September 2007
First time he chose to come round to see me � Solar eclipse 7th Feb 2008
Day he told BMF he�d made a mistake in leaving me � Lunar eclipse 21st Feb 2008
Last time he phoned me before going NC � Solar eclipse 1st August 2008
Started going out with Helen � evening of Lunar eclipse Friday 16th August 2008!
Moved house and not in with Helen and told G he still l*ved me - day of solar eclipse, 26th January 2009
Asked me to move in back in - Lunar eclipse 7th July
I moved back in - started on the solar, 22nd July � moved in by night of lunar, 6th August 2009!
BF told me it was "a new beginning" � Lunar eclipse 31st December 2009
and then....

We collect our wedding rings � day of Lunar eclipse, June 26th
We get married 10th, day before total Solar eclipse 11th July !

Unplanned, but we are getting married 'on' an eclipse (eclipses occur in a 2 day window). Plus the eclipse falls EXACT on the cusp of my 7th house of Marriage! Thats probably the only time in my life an eclipse falls there! Eclipses on your 7th house cusp signify making or breaking a major life changing commitment. WOW.

We collect our rings tommorow, I am VERY excited as I designed them myself and I dont yet know how they look! Then I have my hen do on the eclipse and its going to be 30 degrees here

Amazing Ali!

Make sure you post pics of the rings in the alt. I'd love to see what your artistic mind came up with.

Please do! I would love to see them as well. I don't know much about the elipses as I have really just started this mystical journey a year ago, but they certainly do dominate your relationship with your fiancee!

So happy for you. kat

I would love to see pictures of your dress! Sounds beautiful. The table names sound like a lot of fun. I want to be at the Indiana Jones table!

So very happy for you Ali. You totally deserve it!

I'd love to be at the Indy table too....but only if Harrison Ford is there. Of course, then I'd have to beat up Calista for him. She's a twig....I can take her! LOL

I can't wait to see pics of the rings and your dress!!!!

How exciting!!!

And how interesting about the eclipses!

So is that Twilight movie coming out on the eclipse? That would be wild timing...

Hi girls! Got the rings, they're beautiful! The inscription is very delicate, I will try and post a pic later. I didnt want to take it off ! BF loves his too and is looking forward to wearing it

So the hen do was FANTASTIC! I had such a brilliant time, it was just perfect and I laughed so much I think I cracked a rib. The cottage was stunning too. Everyone made a huge effort to make it special and fun and they all got on like a house on fire, which was brilliant as many of them had only met once or twice, or not at all over the years. I had girlfriends there I have known 3, 10, 15, 20+, 39 years etc!!!!! I felt SO blessed to have such fantastic female friends and very glad I arranged a hen do, even if it was last minute. To think I nearly didnt! It was amazing.

Ohh... bf just called, he's in A&E!!!! Cut his hand at work... gotta dash xxx

Great News!!! I am so glad you had fun and I want to see a pic from of your rings...

Hope his hand is OK...
Love
K

Looking forward to the pics! I hope you have pics of the hen do (at least the cottage...love those).

I'm going to assume A&E is the emergency room. Poor guy! I hope it's not too bad.

Ah, I didnt take my camera, but the girls took pics. There were a few girls ill, but there were still 8 of us which was the perfect number in fact. It was so fantastic, so much laughter!

So bf is ok! He had to go to a mini operating theatre and I squeezed his hand whilst they cleared out the wound and stitched it and he was in so much pain!! Luckily no tendon damage. It was lovely for me to be there the whole time with him... as after the bomb, he left me to 'make his decision' and then broke his wrist. But he didnt ring me until after he had been seen in A&E and got home that night and of course I was so upset to think he had done something so serious and yet he didnt need/want me there. Today I asked him and he said he definetly wanted me to stay with him and not go back to work

H did the same. He didnt want me with him when he went to the doc during his affair but wanted me there twice so far this year and looked grateful I was...

Glad bf is okay! And super glad he wanted you there (you too Maria!

)

The rings sound lovely. Can't wait to see all your pics. (((Ali)))

Just counting down the days for you. Wanted to let you know, as you might actually appreciate it, I spoke with Madalyn Aslan last night. Her voice alone calms me down. She knew right where I was, where I am a bit stuck but did agree I was doing much better than in November. I feel so much better today. Just wanted to share.

hugs, kat

Hi Ali

In the space of 2 days I've read your sitch from beginning to end, and I was completely entranced through the whole thing! I too am a pisces 9th March, and felt great similarities between us, our sitches are a bit different in that my H isnt suffering from obvious depression that I can see, although I've been told that sometimes they'll put on a front, so I'm not sure.

But your story struck a chord with me, as I feel like we are o similar, I'm also petite . He is however a BIG SCORPIO, so the dynamic are a bit different there. But MY emotions have been so similar to yours, so I took HUGE comfort in reading of someone like me having to go through the same emotions! THANK YOU!!

I'm at the satge where I dont know WHATS going on, I started off beliveving it was MLC, and I chop and change my mind everyday on whether it is or isnt.

He's kind most days to me, but somedays gets that distant detached thing like yours did. And hes a scorpio, so if hes having a bad day at work, he lashes out a bit

But I also know I've been the only one to ever be able to draw out his soft inner side. So I know its just on the outside, the anger. Theres a soft squishy center in there. But I can see that when he's in the 'angry' mode, I'm not allowed in.

I also examine and scrutinise over every single action he makes

Its exhausting

I've always been welcoming of astrology but never followed it astutely, but went and read our yearly horoscopes for love (pisces and scorpio) and ours dont add up - his year seems filled with passion, and mines all about new apprearences, and serious conversations

Oh dear, not looking good is it?

Thank you for your story , its given me such joy, and your sense of humor has sparked my dormant sense of humor that has been gone for so long!

I just love you to bits for that!

Thanks Kat, I think K has spoken to her. Sounds like a nice lady. I always check her weeklies as they are about the most spot on (her and Penny Thornton).

Pie.. THANK YOU! I am glad I have helped you some. I cant believe you managed to wade through all of my (45??) threads though, you deserve some kind of trophy or medal for that

My bf didnt have obvious depression for many years. Even when he was seemingly depressed, we just used to joke he was the 'melancholic type', noone twigged he was depressed. After he left me and got diagnosed, his own mother and BMF said they had no idea !! That they thought he was fine. I said he wears a front. They were amazed!

Glad I gave you some laughs too, I crack myself up regularly

So.. wedding is Saturday and its very grey and cloudy here, but dry still! I collect my dress today and my hair trial went brilliantly (long and straight with a few little curls, two think little side plaits which meet down the back and the plaits were threaded with real daisies!) I was worried I would look like a 10 year old but my GF said it looked lovely.

BF's hand has gone septic around the stitches, so he had them out but has to keep it bandaged, until after the ceremony ! He had an allergic reaction to the original plaster too, so his fingers are puffy and we cant get the ring on !!

. I said to him, your 'wedding' hand has gone poisonous and red and flaky and we cant get your ring on, its like the universe is trying to tell you something !!! He said course not silly.

No I havent talked to her...

I am sorry about BF's hand!!!

Cant wait to see the pics... I wish I were there sweets. NO hat, no speech, no single men to dance with...

xxx
M

Coming up so fast!

Sorry bf is having a rough time of healing up. I'm sure the swelling will be going down by Saturday though. I wouldn't take it as a sign lol. Unless you get a flat on the way to the ceremony.

(((((Ali)))))
Wow....
Saturday!

I am happy for you, beyond words!

Thanks guys! bf's hand ok, still bandaged but at least he can get the ring on now!

I'm getting married in the morning....

I am so totally excited for you both!! Best wishes and Congrats!!

big hugs, kat

SO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best wishes and so glad his hand is ok and he can get the ring on!

Congratulations Ali!!! Post pics once you have time!

CONGRATULATIONS have a fantastic day and every happiness to you both. Love and ever good wish.

By now you are most likely married...I wish you a life full of happiness and adventure. If you ever start to get in a heated discussion, hold hands and look into each others eyes, the anger will soon die into laughter. I hope your hard work continues to serve you well. Congratulations!

kat

((((((((Ali))))))))
I am happy for you beyond words!

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Wondering what the surprise about your honeymoon is sweets!!!
Love
M

CONRATULATIONS, have a HAPPY HAPPY LIFE

Fantastic!!!! Congratulations Ali xxx

I've been thinking of you all weekend. Can't wait to hear about the honeymoon surprise.

Remember always the work you have done to get to this point. Continue your growth together and enjoy your lives to the fullest.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope you are having a fantastic honeymoon!

Make the most of all the little moments.

Ali is in Rome, going to Naples, Amalfo coast etc etc.

The wedding was incredible, the best day and night of her life, everybody was so very happy, she told me :"there was so much love in the room, everybody felt it...".

Love you Al, I wish you the rest of your life to always be as happy as your wedding day was...
K

PS I think she asked me to post an update. Couldnt understand her British accent well on the cell. LOL

Hi Ali

Not sure if you'll rememember me but I posted a couple of years ago when my H had a breakdown and we split. Although I havent really posted much since, I have always been an avid reader of your threads.

Its funny, because even though I don't know you, I kind of feel I've been on this journey with you. I was so happy when you got back together and now you are married! I am so pleased the way it has worked out! But I think deep down you always knew you had a very deep connection with him and you would get back together one day.

Sending you all the best wishes for the future, and hope you continue to post to update us.

Lea
xx

Wonderful! Fabulous! Italy is such a dream destination and the Amalfi coast is breathtaking! Hope it's a great, LONG honeymoon!

Love you Ali!

Hi everyone!!Havent got much time to post.. I am on honeymoon

and thanks to K for the update, yes I am in Naples right now (oh dear, bit of a dump!!) and we went to Rome which was amazing! Tommorow we are going to Pompeii (very excited about that!) but H (!) has been ill and now given it to me so so far, we havent really been in brilliant spirits.

Michelle, Mish, Kat, Jeff, Neaj, K, Generosity, Julia, Bobbi, K.. thank you SO much for your best wishes and for being happy for me. Its a mad old journey hey? All those nights up on the internet (and I thikn I was the whole 18 months! And all those nights on the phone too hey K).. and here we are married. I guess miracles do happen.

Lea.. of course I remember you sweetheart and I often wonder how things have panned out for you, although I remember you let your H go. Like me I think their depression made you depressed too for a while, so I hope you are doing ok now?

So.. the wedding was AMAZING! We worked hard on the arrangements to make it magical.. which it was. It was by the sea, it was boiling hot all day and night, the band were incredible and the dancefloor was never empty.. I wasnt a bit nervous and me and bf hugged and kissed even DURING the ceremony! There were lots of tears then loads of laughs, GREAT speeches (I gave one too! At the end I said thanks to all those who had helped 'get us through' and raised a toast to friendship. Everyone said it was 'the best wedding EVER'.

I feel so blessed

Al xx

So fabulous Ali! And I love seeing you type H instead of bf...

Your H????????? LOLOLOLOL... Have fun!
K

Hi guys --

Please start a new thread. This thread is getting a bit too long, so I'm locking it. Shorter threads improve the speed and flow of this online community.

Thanks.