The road to here:
King of Pain King of Pain, 2 If I Could Change The World... Used To The Pain She'll Think Of Me Walk It Off Winner At A Losing Game Better Now Worried Life BluesDon't Think I Don't Think About It And a blues tune to match:
Key to the Highway
by charles segar and willie broonzy
I got the key to the highway,
Billed out and bound to go.
I'm gonna leave here running;
Walking is most too slow.
I'm going back to the border
Woman, where I'm better known.
You know you haven't done nothing but
Drove a good man away from home.
When the moon peeks over the mountains
I'll be on my way.
I'm gonna roam this old highway
Until the break of day.
Oh give me one, one more kiss, darlin'
Just before I go,
'Cause when I leave this time you know,
I won't be back no more.
I got the key to the highway,
Billed out and bound to go.
I'm gonna leave here running;
Walking is most too slow.
From the last thread before it locked:
NoC, I was reading your other posts and read that your son takes Ritalin, does he have ADHD? I know quite a bit because stbx has it and while we were together I read up on it a lot and learned quite a bit and apparently diet can make a huge difference, and also the right kind of Omega3.
Hi, Cat, S7 has Asperger's Syndrome (AS) and Sensory Integration Disorder (SID). While he hasn't exactly been diagnosed with ADHD, it wouldn't surprise me. His mother asked his pediatrician to put him on Ritalin, because she read it somewhere that it might help SID or AS kids. The doctor agreed. I can't really tell it's having that much effect on him, but his behavior does seem more pronounced off the meds than when he is on (we give him the dose in the mornings, and it seems to lose its effect at the end of the day)-- but that doesn't explain last week.
We tried everything before we discovered the AS and SID connection -- diet, allergies, special cushions and blankets, etc. The Ritalin was a recent arrival.
Hi, Lwb,
Hi, Karen,
Also you could look to 180s. I think your W seems like she is always expecting a fight from you, maybe often provoking them. I would be tempted to just agree when possible. Like with kids (I always seem to relate that to WAS) you have to pick your battles you know.
I wish I had listened to you or read this before tonight, Karen. Not that it would have mattered, unfortunately. I had a fight with W this evening.
It started out well enough until W called me again at the last minute because she was going to be late to pick up our sons and this is her week. I am a bit put off by the fact she wants to work full-time now but can't manage to hold up her end of raising our sons. She still tells me what a derelict father I was for working so may long hours, neglecting my sons and leaving it all up to her to take care of our sons needs. Now the shoe is on the other foot and she still thinks I am the one who's neglectful?
So my schedule was blown for getting S7 to his scout meeting tonight, but we made on time, just barely. We had a good time in the chilly air tonight learning about the flag raising ceremony and practicing being in the color guard. We also learned about a couple of knots to tie.
Then on the way home from the den meeting, S7 started telling me about how he, S3 and their mother dinked around with some tennis rackets -- given to them by the OM.
I said nothing, and then a minute later it came out of S7's mouth that the OM had visited on Saturday and had taken him fishing in the pond at W's apartment. S7 was describing how the OM took him to the pond while W just observed from a distance (she remained on the patio/deck of her apartment.) My blood boiled.
Then when we arrived at W's apartment, I maintained my calm, but W pointed me in the direction of endorsing the check for the house sale. She wanted to deposit the check and write me out a personal check for half that amount. I looked at the documents for the deed of sale and realized it was about 19,000 short of what I was expecting. So while W got S7 into his bath I sat down at her (formerly
my) dining room table to look over the numbers more carefully.
Part of it I figured out right away -- they had gone ahead and taken out the annual taxes that were supposed to be in escrow even though they had been withheld in the mortgage already (I'm not sure they aren't double-charging us since they didn't even prorate it.) Supposedly we'll get that back from the lender.
The other part of about 15k I couldn't figure out. W came up at that point and said it was the second mortgage -- which is a value that I thought had already been accounted for. I was starting to think I was being hoodwinked here. But they won't dare do that.
So, frustrated and aggravated by W and her crappy misinformation to our agent, we were going to be taking home far, far less. I feel so bad that we've thrown away our house now for so little. I wish we had never bought it now that we're basically letting it go for cost -- we could have just rented if that's all we'd have seen for the heartache its brought, not to mention all the marital stress from our weakened finances. They say that real estate is just not the investment it once was, and that's certainly true -- especially if you're going to be stupid about it, like we have. But a house of our own was what she wanted, and I loved her enough then to give it to her. Now I feel like such an utter fool.
I bitterly endorsed the check, took W's check to me, bid my son's goodnight. As I walked to the door I said to W, "I hope you're happy. I hope this was all worth it."
W replied, "I'm sorry."
Me: "Are you? Really? This was such a waste."
W:"I'm sorry if I disappoint you."
Me: "It's not me any longer that matters in being disappointed. It's them [pointing to the boys bedroom]... and it's God above you should be worried about disappointing."
W, getting riled: "I am at peace with who I am. And God forgives me and accepts me as I am. He wants me to be happy."
And that's what launched another verbal exchange. She still plays the innocent victim in all this, making me out to be the monster. She says I never communicate with her, only "slice-and-dice" her figuratively whenever I do say anything to her. She said we'll never see eye to eye, that she has her opinions and that I think I am God.
Rather than persist in her personal attacks I told her I was concerned for my sons now. I said I did not appreciate her exposing our sons to her
paramour -- she objected to the term "paramour", and I started to laugh, but then said, "Okay, then your adulterous lover. "
W then said she only had a "friend."
Me: "Oh, is
that is what you're calling it now. We should all have friends like that!"
W: "
You don't know what a friend is."
I asked her why she insists on denying what we both know to be true.
We said a lot more. Too much, maybe. At one point she said that I was harming our sons by displaying poisonous disrespect for her when they were within earshot just down the hallway. I told her "Pot-kettle."
Towards the end, I told her she has done so much damage in her scorched-earth policy that I just don't think we can even be casual friends ... or even congenial co-parents. Not anymore.
Finally I left. As calmly as I could, but still seething with anger and hurt.
In retrospect, W is certainly the mocker. And I was a fool to think she could be otherwise. I am tempted to follow-up with an email telling her she was free to do whatever she pleases on her own time but to stop exposing our S's to the OM. Then on the other hand, I guess that would be just more folly on my part.
sorry for the long rant.
Not a rant....truth by you....by the way...YOU WILL ALWAYS BE WRONG TO HER!!!!
In other news, the kids are gonna come up with their own version of what they think of their mom...and I agree with you about exposing the kids to her OM...not cool...especially if there is a revolving door of male "friends".
Hang in their man.....following your scoop.
I hear you NoC, just fresh from one such talk, in which I just vented to stbx and he just poo-pooed it, I know I should've stop much sooner and that it went too far.
There is no way to "make" them see what they are doing, they live in a parallel universe with its own rules, we'll just come out as bitter if we keep trying to insist they see things the way we do. We dont' have control over anything they do, we never did, and in order to make the best life for our kids we must be, HAVE to be, congenial parents. I know you'll feel better and for the kids sake will deal with her in a collaborative way.
I'm still pretty riled up about stbx introducing gf#2 to our kids, a woman he just started dating, he thinks it's alright and no one else will change his mind. It is up to us to make sure we are not bitter nor show our kids displeasure or we will put them in the middle and like they have to take sides.
I can kick myself for the amount of times stbx and I have had heated phone arguments which the kids can hear, it is not good for them and Lord knows what they are thinking, I came up with a mantra I'm trying to put into my thick skull "you are damaging the children just have your say". I have to learn to cool off and wait til kids are not around at all to talk to stbx about something that might lead to an argument.
Big breath now .........
"you are damaging the children just have your say".
That's really good, Cat -- I too will need to keep that in mind.
I have to learn to cool off and wait til kids are not around at all to talk to stbx about something that might lead to an argument.
If I wait until the kids are nowhere around before talking with W, then we will never talk again. She hides behind them. She will levy a nasty barrage at me in their presence and the second I open my mouth she berates me for trying to put down their mother in front of them. She's a coward, a mean disingenuous coward.
I want to tell her, "
Why don't you grow the h*ll up?!" You'd think she was still that petulant, mean-spirited 14-year old girl the way she acts. I know she has deep-seated problems with insecurity and self-worth, but that's no excuse for her lashing out and harming so many people who truly love her.
This morning, when talking to my S's over the phone, I asked S7 an innocent question about whether he had already seen the recent Clone Wars episode I had recorded for him. I then could hear W blow a gasket in the background. She yelled back at the phone held by S7 in his hands as they were driving down the road, saying that she already told me last week that she was restricting both of our S's television privileges for the week. And she asserted that for me to ask S7 about a show he was not being allowed to watch was cruel and tantamount to child abuse.
First, I calmly responded to W by saying we really should take this conversation offline. Then I said that other such punishments had been relaxed by her before, and I just wanted to know if I needed to keep some of his shows for when I pick them up Friday. I noted that both of my S's were no longer wanting to talk -- and it seemed to be lost on W that she had again committed the very sin she always accuses me of.
She later called me back on my work phone -- I let her call roll to voicemail. I then listened to it. First she said that because she had neglected to enroll either of our sons in any of the holiday or other non-school days for either the YMCA or daycare, that was going to cost an additional amount each month -- and she was going to split the charges down the middle with me.
She has opted to work the holidays she is supposed to have custody of the kids and yet she wants me to help foot half the bill? I'm thinking I need to talk to my lawyer.
Then she launched into the conflict from the previous call telling me how my "teasing" our sons about the punishment she has been handing down to them was "taking a sharp knife and twisting it in their little guts." She also said that that action was "worse than anything" she might have done to them in my perspective.
She was on a tear, telling me that I had triggered her "mother bear mode" and said "I want to get them
away from yo---" and then the voicemail ended abruptly.
She's a loon. Unfortunately, she's also a
dangerous loon where my sons are concerned. I am thinking I
definitely need to talk to my lawyer now.
God help her. Please.
and she was going to split the charges down the middle with me.
heck no, I totally agree with you, her time with the kids= her responsibility to pay for their care if she chooses to work. I'm guessing the custody details are still in the works? please be as detailed as you can when the time comes to put it all in paper, every single holiday, teacher's day (kids off school) anything and every thing you can think of, she sounds like a very unstable and angry person willing to use the kids to get back at you or give you a hard time.
Yup, sounds like she acts like a total loon, even more reason for you to keep your cool and vent here and not to her, she is beyond reason and has no earthly clue how her aggressive behavior is hurting the kids.
Stbx was that unreasonable at the beginning and cooled of later, she may or may not (I think he cooled of after I paid off for the house, who knows).
She is not a reasonable person so thread with care when a convo is turning into an argument, make yourself stop and cut the convo and talk after kids go to bed.
I'm glad I made sense on my early post, though it should've read "you are damaging the children just to have your say", anyways, you know what I mean
Like cat, xH was unreasonable and amazingly hurtful a year ago. He has cooled down as well. I just pray your wife does.
I don't agree that you should pay down the middle for the care since she decided to work. Are you working those days too? Can you offer to take them?
I am so sorry. So very sorry. You don't deserve this. I feel like you are walking down a road, trying to be a father, and she keeps throwing things in front of you, in your path, so you stumble. I don't like it one bit.
Well, my STBX started out full-tilt Bozo crazy hostile right from the moment of the bomb. She has relaxed her war footing somewhat in recent months, often to the point of being semi-nice. I notice, however, that she's only nice when she wants something from me. This afternoon, after this morning's continuation of hostilities, she again flipped and started being nice to me again. I was PO'ed at her so I have not taken her calls, just let them roll to voicemail -- and she called a lot.
It turns out she was going to be gravely late in picking up our S's, because of work. At first she wanted to see if I would be on standby in case she had any difficulties with her last patient.
After her nasty threats this morning, I almost didn't call her aback and almost made the decision to ignore her request to pick up our children. Almost. And it really bugs me how she can now turn around in her professed contempt for me and put on that fakey, sing-song happy face. It really gets to me how fake and superficial her kindness seems to really be.
But in the end I don't want my two boys to suffer for their mother's indiscretion. So I yielded and went to pick them up. When W came to pick them up later from me, and at all times she has spoken to me, aside from the early morning altercation, she was just as syrupy sweet as anyone. Hardly the same person who usually makes habitation in her body. She thanked me for saving her (even paying S7's fees at the daycare -- yeah, I'm a sucker) and apologized for being late, saying she was working on going back to being per diem instead of sallaried/full time, giving her more control over her schedule supposedly. I started to tell her, "Welcome to my world -- the world of full-time work and demanding bosses."
But I realize it's just a matter of time, now that she has attained whatever object or favor she has demanded, before the facade 'll come down and she'll again wage her war against me.
It's sad that she wants to be the heroic single working mom, but cannot hack being full-time and salaried. She bent my ear quite a bit just today alone about her plight, like how difficult and demanding her bosses are. Whenever I, myself had in the past relayed my own work-related angst to her, she acted like I was crazy and exaggerating. And whenever my work prevented me from being able to be there for our sons, she certainly never cut me any slack.
I look back at her income in the three years prior to the bomb and I see how she let her per diem hours dwindle to nothing. Her work had become nothing more than a hobby, she got to goldbrick and pretend her contribution was as much as it ever was. I can forget and put aside the year after S3 was born but all that other wasted time meant she herself was the chief drag on our finances, and she was the one that complained the loudest about how poor our income to debt ratio was.
If she would be honest with herself, she would now realize that she had for sometime become pretty much a "kept" woman, especially when compared to so many other working mothers I know. She had it good, but she took it for granted -- just as I had taken our marriage for granted in my own way.
So, although I'm concerned for my S's having their mother away so much, I am also not quite happy that W is trying to retreat back to her comfort zone of minimal income, minimal outcome. If she thinks I'm going to pay for her to sit around on her butt and demand a greater amount out of my hide to pay for childcare, she's got another thing coming. I am not going to pay for her to go back to acting like a barely-employed housewife once she's no longer my wife to begin with, and when she is more than capable of pulling her own weight. Not on my dime she's not.
Again, I need to talk to my L.
I am tempted to follow-up with an email telling her she was free to do whatever she pleases on her own time but to stop exposing our S's to the OM. Then on the other hand, I guess that would be just more folly on my part.
Well, I think some of your arguments are like my C calls "pi**ing in the wind". Just kind of no point to them, like the one about OM. You know the truth, she knows the truth, she just can't admit it, maybe b/c she would have to face some truth/reality.
I feel the same way as you do about the OP; my H spends most of his time with the kids with OW there also. Makes me sick. I asked him not to do that, but he continues to do so. I think my asking made it even more fun for them, probably enjoyable for them to do something that they know upsets me, definitely so for H. Why give her the satisfaction of realizing it bothers you?
I think you should try to go super dark with her. If it's isn't about the kids then don't bother to communicate with her. I don't talk to my H much at all anymore, just emails mostly. I assume when they are doing the active A's that being toxic and provoking arguments is something they feel the need to do, and you need to try to stay away from the toxic spew your W gives you. Do you pray for her every night? I was just reading in the bible yesterday about the grim outcome for adulterers so you kind of have to feel sorry for them in a way. Karen
Hi, Karen,
Probably so. That sounds exactly like something my ole' man would have said.
Part of me recognizes that I may very well be giving her the drama she desires. But then again another part of me feels like I need to also be careful to defend what is right. Sort of like how if someone lets an infringement to a copyright or trademark go unchallenged, then (by law) they stand to forfeit it. Likewise, I feel that if I don't at least state my objection to the offensive behavior, then I am, in effect,
condoning it.
The trick then is to try to stay clear of the drama while asserting your position.
I'm not so certain the WAS, in my own case at least, really knows the truth. Subconsciously, maybe. But I think they have so completely built up a facade of lies and deception that they believe it themselves. I believe that if they have any conscience at all, for them to live with and perpetuate their actions, they have to suppress that conscious completely through delusion.
My W has a particularly virulent strain of self-delusion -- she is justifying her actions as being sanctioned by God. She is guilty of what Ravi Zacharias describes as choosing one's own way and then making it
look like it is God's way for their life.
Do you pray for her every night?
I
do.
Nearly every night. Even when I have just cleaned the fresh venom out of my wounds again.
Well, I agree you need to hold firm to your boundaries. But pick your battles, some stuff if it doesn't really matter you could just let slide? I told H that I felt it was wrong and my feelings about having the kids around OW when we were married. But I don't think I can accomplish anything by continuing to bring that up. He knows my objections, and I think at some point he should realize what he is doing (has done) to our kids. Yes, occasional truth darts as Puppy said, but only if you can pull back and try to avoid the ensuing argument!
Yes, they are delusional. You know my H was recently telling me that his dumping me and taking up with OW was the reason my depression is better or whatever. Yes, aren't they just the most thoughtful wonderful people (in their own mind at least)! Karen
Got a response from my atty this evening, via email. She attached a copy of her draft for the Sep-Agreement. I sent her a reply to catch her up on our sitch.
I forgot to mention in this thread about another thing W said when she announced she wanted to scale back her employment. She asked me if I would consider to keep her on my health insurance policy with my employer -- even after a divorce. I gave her no answer as yet. I think she just doesn't want to lie in the bed she's made.
On another note, I was reading over some letters I have been writing to W and filing away since the bomb but never sending. I have a set of letters that i have been collecting that are addressed to my wife -- not the WAW, but the soul of my real wife. These are love letters to a person who has most likely, for intents and purposes, has died. I know she existed at one time, at the very least, so I am addressing these to her as if she was the same person I knew.
Perhaps, this is just a form of denial on my part. And perhaps this is preventing me from truly detaching and moving on. But then again, maybe someday in the future she will awaken again and encounter these old love letters from a sad man to his beloved prodigal wife.
((((nc)))) im so sorry, you and the boys don't deserve any of this. She is very misguided and very lost.
Your great when she needs you, but when she doesn't she's wicked and mean. This is signs of a woman that is a user and a manipulator, Unfortuantely she is the mother of your children, and they will also have to suffer her rath.
Im worried for you, it seems that when she gets mad at you she has mentioned she wants the boys taken from you. You need to document this and make sure your lawyer knows what she is saying. If she is leaving these messages on your vm.. don't erase them, it will just show how sick she is, and you made need this one day, unfortuantely.
Im praying for you and your boys sanity from this roller coaster ride.
((((nc))))
Thanks, Tal,
I really appreciate your concern and support.
This is signs of a woman that is a user and a manipulator
You know every once in while, especially of late, I look back and compare and contrast W before and after. To have known the person she
was, with me and with so many other people for so many years, and then to see her behavior now -- the dichotomy is
startling.
It would be similar to hearing that, say, Betty White was convicted of being the ring-leader in a dog-fighting operation. Just so
unreal.
I think that's why it has been so much easier for people (friends, neighbors, family and associates) to assume that
I was the unfaithful spouse in our situation, especially given no other information to contradict that impression.
(It also explains why I can write two completely different types of letters to the same person, some filed as "To the Unfaithful One", and others under "To My Beloved" -- it's practically
schizophrenic.)
nc,
It is amazing how they can change so drastically. Its really scary and for someone that is about to go out into the single world again, I can't imagine. When one person that you trusted and loved so deeply can just up and change their feelings and become something out of a horror magazine.
If it were me, if these people have this impression, I would have already told them this is not the case. You don't necessarily have to say everything but let it be known that you were not the quilty party. I think it makes it too easy for your EX to get off scott free. As long as your boys aren't hurt by it that is.
She hasn't been upfront with you with so many things, I wouldn't hesitate if you were approached.
((((((nc)))))
Tal,
I mentioned before that I had one of my neighbors approach me a couple of months ago with a question. I was checking up on the house and had the boys with me. When S7 and S3 saw the neighborhood kids playing in the culdesac, they insisted on playing with them. So I gave them a little time to do so before we headed back to my apartment. Meanwhile I shot the breeze with a couple of my neighbors. There came a point where I was standing there with one of them and she lowered her voice and said, "So, are you now dating someone?"
Astonished, I told her no, and that started a conversation giving me the opportunity to correct a number of false assumptions. I said nothing about W cheating on me, merely left that up to her to derive that answer for herself. In turn I gathered quite a bit from her, that W had, as I had expected, been playing the victim card. Not too difficult since I was the one who ended up moving out -- all she had to do was allow everyone to think she kicked me out of our home because of my supposed infraction.
While I did not slam my W like she probably deserves, I did leave our neighbor with a lot to think about. I am fairly confident she disseminated the information to the other neighbors, helping to correct the misimpression W has taken advantage of.
Perhaps that is why W went ahead and moved out of the house into an apartment like she did, before we even had a real offer on selling our home -- maybe she was feeling the truth of her culpability was going to be soon found out, making her interaction with the neighbors difficult. I don't know for sure. It doesn't matter now after all.
But the thing that grieves me the most -- and which I must try to find someway to attenuate -- is that W has most definitely made me out to be a monster before teachers and school staff. When she talks with them she lays the blame for any of S7's negative behavior on the fact that I was so disagreeable -- and that necessitated her leaving me. She tries to make it sound like she was forced to end our marriage to save our children from me. And even if she truly and candidly believes in her own mind this to be even half-way true, it is no excuse whatsoever to malign me so before our children's teachers and caretakers.
I know God wants me to forgive her, and that would be and has been extremely difficult -- except these transgressions against me continue even now. Having to forgive my W has become a constant and continual exercise -- it's getting quite old.
When she talks with them she lays the blame for any of S7's negative behavior on the fact that I was so disagreeable -- and that necessitated her leaving me. She tries to make it sound like she was forced to end our marriage to save our children from me. And even if she truly and candidly believes in her own mind this to be even half-way true, it is no excuse whatsoever to malign me so before our children's teachers and caretakers.
I know God wants me to forgive her, and that would be and has been extremely difficult -- except these transgressions against me continue even now. Having to forgive my W has become a constant and continual exercise -- it's getting quite old.
But forgiving is for you. It releases some of the anger, tension, and stress that you carry with you when you haven't forgiven someone. Your W is deeply flawed, and it would be good to forgive her, continue to pray for her, and feel sorry for her really.
Sure your W probably believes a lot of things or rationalizes her misbehaviors by blaming you. My H does too. It's easier than looking at themselves of course. If you are agreeable to everyone, I don't believe they will believe W's tales for very long if at all. People are smarter than you think. Well, most of them.
Karen
NC,
I know that your faith is strong. Just turn it over to him. That's all you can do. Don't let her get under your skin. She has a way of doing that, doesn't she?
As far as the health insurance goes, I don't think I would keep her on your policy. Would that make you liable for medical bills for her? Something definitely to discuss with your L. She wanted to be Ms. Independent, show her what independence all about. You will no longer be responsible for her, just those two wonderful little boys.
Hugs, Yoyo
But the thing that grieves me the most -- and which I must try to find someway to attenuate -- is that W has most definitely made me out to be a monster before teachers and school staff. When she talks with them she lays the blame for any of S7's negative behavior on the fact that I was so disagreeable -- and that necessitated her leaving me.
I forgot I wanted to say to you that my H is like that too. When we were at D8's psych recently, he was saying she doesn't have any meltdowns with me with the kind of voice, like maybe the meltdowns are b/c or caused by me or something? Of course, she does have just as many meltdowns with him, he's just not around to see most of them. It is ridiculous for a parent to blame the other parent for the behavior of their AS child. I don't think you should point fingers at any AS parent, although if I had to, I would maybe point one at the parent who has made the children go through a lot of change and instability (that would be your W of course). Karen
Hey No Code..
I keep repeating to myself.. "What other people say about me is none of my business." If you are a good, genuine person that will show. If you a caring, involved parent.. that will show.
Walk tall, be the man and father you are. You actions will speak far louder than any explanations you feel you must give.
*hugs*
NC, just stopping by to check on you and noticed you haven't posted in a while. Are you just busying GALing and having fun with the kids? I hope so.
Karen
Hi, Karen, all,
I guess I have been busy with my S's. Last night I put a bike together for S3's birthday (he turns 4 on Sunday.) It is a Transformer's Bumblebee bicycle and he's in love with it already. Even S7 was ecstatic about it (I told S7 I was proud of him for being able to keep it secret from his little brother until it arrived.)
On another note, I am dealing with the continuing issues with S7. He's not been having a good week at school, the Y or at home -- this is the third week now in a row. He is not showing respect to me or his mother or his teachers. He has ignored me when I try to get him to take care of the few things he's responsible for -- getting ready for school, doing his assignments, completing his homework, leaving his little brother alone. This morning I was at my wit's end because he was making us late all yet again.
I have been losing my patience with him. I feel so bad for him that he is so very easily distracted, and that is bad enough. But when he seems to just ignore me altogether, to forget what I have told him even the very second the words have left my lips, I get so frustrated with him.
It's so bad now that my job is on the line. Maybe I'm a poor parent, unfit for raising such a high-maintenance child (he has Asperger's.) Maybe I'm not cut out for this after all. I pray to God to give me the patience and the wisdom to handle this, to be able to get through to him.
I fear though that if I lose my job over this, which is a distinct possibility if this persists (we let a 20-year veteran go last year for similar "scheduling" problems), the whole matter will be out of my hands anyway. The harsh reality is that I will likely have to move away to another area to be able to find another job in my career. That would mean effectively having to give up being a real father to my S's. And my STBXW will certainly use such a turn of events to push me out of the picture altogether.
But other than that, I have been quite calm. I try not to worry myself about W or any of her drama. She still occasionally tries to act all friendly and matter-of-fact about the whole thing, as if she thinks I now embrace her divorce. She still occasionally bends my ear about her day, how busy she is or not, and tries to give me the opportunity to commiserate with her and to congratulate her at the same time. I may give a polite acknowledgment, but I refuse to whole-heartedly pat her on the back. I don't offer anything about myself in return, simply because I know she's still only wrapped up in herself -- the truth is she doesn't want to hear it, not really.
So I just let it all slide off my back. In the past she's called that attitude "cold". Now of days, I just don't care what she thinks -- with this one exception: I only care what she thinks of me when it comes to how she and the people around her reflect those views in their interactions with my S's. I can practice humility and not be ruffled by slights against my character except where it gets back to my two little boys -- that is where I draw the line, and that is where I do get somewhat defensive. So that is why I find W's questionable correspondence with the teachers and other caregivers so particularly egregious.
The paranoid part of me wonders if all this is why S7 fails to respect me and fails to respect other adults. W disrespects me to others, so why shouldn't he follow suit? I know he loves me, but the confusion he sees in the foolish adults around him must give him ample reason to not trust or respect them.
nc... happy birthday to S4... Guess what My son's birthday is the same day!! He'll be 3 yrs old.
Im sure a lot of your son't behavior is learned behavior from what he has seen. More so from your Stbx... Its not good. All you can do is been there for him and be firm but loving.
I don't really know anything about aspergers, but is there some sort of support group for that?
You have every right to become defensive especially when it has to do with the boys, that's only natural, if you didn't I would wonder.
Im sorry your going through such a rough spot. I pray for you and your beautiful boys.
~ *hugs*
NC, my S15 is going through a rough patch too. Acting a lot like your S, but also definitely depressed. Saying he will never get married, that everyone gets divorced or has adultery. I think he's stressed out and that causes a lot of the problems/distractions for him. Maybe getting up 10 minutes early and having your S' clothes ready and that kind of thing might help, just letting have a little extra time now if he needs it. I also always have given the kids 5 minute warnings before we leave and that seems to help. ((((NC)))))
Thanks, all, for trying to help me through this.
Unfortunately, I have come to the realization recently that I've got a boatload more hurt coming my way than I ever thought. I mean, I thought things couldn't possibly get worse -- it's only uphill from here, right?
Wrong. Thursday evening was about as bad as it could be for me, short of someone dying of course. Both of my S's, S7 and S3, independently destroyed property at their respective schools. This is the second time for S7 in mere weeks.
First, S3 decided to take a crayon and marker to a brand-new $300 bookshelf at his preschool -- marked it all up.
Then I found out that not only did S7 have such a horrible day in class (what we call a "red" day) -- failing to listen to his teachers or completing his assignments -- but he "found" another ink pen and decided to mark up the floor of the school stage in the auditorium during the YMCA rides-in program. This after damaging the school gym's floor with ink a couple of weeks ago.
Two wanton and independent acts of malicious destruction by my children on the same day. Both during my duty.
S7 is being suspended from the YMCA's before & after school program for 3 days, beginning yesterday. This meant me losing more time from work to drop him off later in the morning or to pick him up earlier in the day afterwards. To top it off, W and I got into a fight as to who was to be responsible for picking him up yesterday (a whole ugly addition to this trauma that I could have done without.)
On the drive back home after picking them up from their schools, I tried to question S7 about what on earth could have possessed him to do almost the exact same offense yet again, while the repercussion of the first heinous act is, even now, still fresh and unfolding. He could offer no real excuse, as you would expect.
After all the aggravation and frustration at this awful turn of events -- during my watch over our boys -- I broke down crying in the car as we drove back. I couldn't help it -- I know it was unwise of me to lose my composure in from of my two little boys like that. They are already suffering from the uncertainties and vagaries from the tragic disintegration of their family, and the impasse between the two foolish human beings God had entrusted to care for them, but were utterly failing at -- they didn't need to see their father break down like some weak baby of an adult, thus failing to demonstrate the proper traits of a good father to them even in that. And robbing them of yet more of the stability and security their father is supposed to provide them.
No, I sobbed like a little child myself. All I could think was that if they (or God Himself) had wanted to send me a clear signal that I was obviously unwanted and unfit to be their father, they couldn't have coordinated it any better. And this only plays straight into W's plans to mark me as so unfit to parent our S's that she can now dictate to me how much of a role in their lives she should allow me to have.
For two days now I've been pretty depressed. Fortunately, both of their behaviors yesterday, Friday, was a marked improvement, but then compared to Thursday it had to be better.
Still, I have been contemplating the distinct possibility that maybe I shouldn't be allowed to parent my S's. Oh, I do love them, and I can say for the most part they do love me as well. But I have to be honest and say they don't respect me, not really, and certainly not enough to fully heed my instruction to them. They no longer listen to what I say, or take it seriously. It's painfully obvious they take their lead from their mother in this, and I don't help matters none by weeping in front of them like I did.
There is something definitely going on with my two kids, and I am trying to get my mind around it. W and her mother are no doubt offering their own biased explanations.
I have a lot of soul-searching on this matter. I now question my effectiveness to even act as their father, especially given W's not-so-covert operations to alienate me from them, by subtly undermining whatever 's left of the respect they have for me.
Thanksgiving is going to prove quite bittersweet for me this week.
Unfortunately, I have come to the realization recently that I've got a boatload more hurt coming my way than I ever thought
I thought things couldn't possibly get worse -- it's only uphill from here, right?
I broke down crying in the car as we drove back. I couldn't help it -- I know it was unwise of me to lose my composure in from of my two little boys like that.
For two days now I've been pretty depressed.
Thanksgiving is going to prove quite bittersweet for me this week
Ok, no codes. I could quote more, but I am tired of copying and clicking.
I care SO much about you.
Please. Please. Rethink AD's.
I think you need them.
Wanna know why I think you need them? Because you are so upset over what your boys are going through, that you are actually re-thinking being a father to them.
Oh, I do love them, and I can say for the most part they do love me as well.
For the most part???? Nocode, I am shocked. You are their father. Their
father.
But I have to be honest and say they don't respect me, not really, and certainly not enough to fully heed my instruction to them.
This might be partially true. However, I don't think they are disobeying you (or even your W) at this point. Your S7 has trouble listening and focusing, and this 'vandalism' is a perfect example of this. Because its an act that really doesn't have a reason, as your S7 proved when he couldn't explain it himself.
S3 (oops wait? S4, right?) has probably heard the discussion of 'marking up' property and tried it out himself.
This isn't blatant disrespect for you. Its your kids, trying to get out whatever they need to get out.
You leaving them would desvastate them, NOT DO THEM ANY GOOD. You leaving would lose their faith in someone that loves them unconditionally, NOT DO THEM ANY GOOD.
I just really hope you can see that you are in so much pain yourself, that everything else around you is clouded. The good AND the bad.
HUGS!
Oh PS: I am not not not dogging you for crying in front of your sons. I have done that. Not often, but its happened. We. Are. Human.
(((((NC)))))),
I'm so sorry for your pain. LWB is right, you are their father and they love you. They are acting out, yes, but it's not in front of you. Do you think that S7 is doing it to spend more time with you? Think about it, when he gets in trouble you have to come get him. He is suspended from the YMCA program, thus getting to spend more time with you. He doesn't realize this is a hardship on you, he just knows he gets to see Dad.
Are the boys in counseling? I can't remember. Is S7 talking taling with the school counselor? Perhaps, you need to request a conference with his teacher, counselor, and principal and see if there are solutions you all can come up with. I think it would be wise for your W to be there too.
NC, don't worry about the crying, "Real men cry". I think it is good for little boys to see their dad cry. Little boys are brought up believing men don't cry, they are seeing that daddy has emotions too.
Wish I was there to give you a big hug, I think you could use it. Since I'm not, I'm sending your a great big virtual hug...
Hugs, Yoyo
Lwb, maybe you're right -- I probably should see about getting back on the AD's, preferably something with fewer of the unwanted side-effects.
And "for the most part" means just that -- I hadn't been feeling much of the love from them for several days now. When they're with me I encourage them to talk to their mother when she calls. But when I call, W does not reciprocate -- my S's have been overly distracted and overly-stimulated, and they just haven't felt like talking with me. It doesn't help that W puts them on speakerphone and then monitors their talk with me. I don't mind her hearing what we say to each other, not at all, but her presence seems to impede their willingness to settle down and talk with their father.
This weekend almost every call I made, W would say nothing to me, put us on speakerphone and hand it to one of the boys-- and before I could even begin to say hello to either of them, S7 has said, "Hi, Daddy, I'm going to hang up now." He didn't want to talk to me.
I don't think this is due to some lack-of-AD bout of paranoia -- I know my W is alienating my S's from me in very subtle ways.
It doesn't help that she continues to expose them to the OM. The MIL came to visit this weekend/week and the two had the other man over there to help celebrate S4's birthday. Uuuuuugh!
My MIL has all along been aiding and abetting this A. She even blessed their "union" last year. I know people have weaknesses and faults, and that we all fall short of being worthy of God's grace. And I know there are some people who I can feel sorry for even when they are too foolish to repent of their sins. To embrace one's own sins is folly and only hurts themselves.
But I just cannot abide people who not only are willing and ready to damn their own souls but actively seek to take others down with them. I mean, what kind of person revels in the knowledge that they have passed down to their own children the very same sins that blacken their souls? Who thinks likes this? To feel so smugly justified in their miserable sinful ways simply because they've achieved the same dark results in the lives of their children?
God wants me to forgive those who trespass against me, even someone as rotten as my MIL. But I continue to have a very difficult time with that -- I am just not at that point yet. Especially when the wounds continue to be reopened every time they do something involving my kids.
When the MIL came up to visit on Friday, she had a bit of a fender-bender. I asked W if she was alright, which she was. But that has meant that the MIL has stayed on beyond the weekend while her car is being repaired in the shop.
Saturday, W sent me an email -- curtly telling me what I need to do. (1) again asking/telling me to meet in the parking lot of the church if I want to see my S's after the service, and (2) demanding that I pay off and close the line of credit still open in both our names. On Sunday, I complied with the former, but all the while I was wondering why on earth she thinks she can make all the demands about how this should go down. Her demand veiled as a "request" is so offensive to me. I have my S's to consider and I wonder whether it more prudent to not be bullied by W or to avoid a conflict. I regret it now because appeasement never works with an irrational aggressor.
When I picked up S7 for cub scouts tonight, MIL was still there in W's apartment. On the drive to the meeting was when I learned from S7 that the OM had been visiting, both Saturday and Sunday. I responded to S7 that I love him very much, but I do not approve of his mother's actions in this.
I also learned from S7 that the OM had loaned my MIL a car for her to drive while hers is in the shop. No wonder she loves that scumbag so much that she would help destroy her daughter's family!
Frankly, I don't know what to do but suck it up. Tragically, there's nothing I can do to prevent W from doing what she's doing -- such is the state of this immoral world we live in. Her continued disrespect towards me is the root for all the problems our children are having now with people in general who have authority over them. W continues unabated, oblivious to the consequences and my S's can only conclude that there is no Right or Wrong, and that Daddy and the teachers and the other caregivers are to be ignored.
There's no way to counter that short of removing custody from W entirely -- and there's no court on Earth that would go with that, even if I really wanted that, which I don't. Instead I see a slow, continual erosion in my relationship with my sons brought about by a selfish mother who has deluded herself into thinking she is justified in doing so.
I hate feeling so helpless.
I talked with my friends Friday night about this, during our Bible study group/get-together. They echoed some of what you said, Yoyo. "M" also suggested that I seek out the school counselors again. She said it was time I began a new, more concerted effort to work with the school to try to help S7.
I had opened a dialog last Fall with the then school counselor, but she moved on elsewhere since then. It is obviously time to re-begin that effort.
<sorry for the long ramble.>
I'm sorry to hear that NC, will keep you in my prayers. It's pretty sad/enraging that the WAS don't see the damage they do to kids just to get their way.
((((nc))) Im with lwb on this... You've got to stop thinking your such a bad father... these boys are going through a divorce on top of which their mother is obviously doing her ownn dirty work on them regarding you. The answer is not to fold and get out of their life al together. You are their Father first and foremost.. kids act out.. this happens, this absoutely does not mean they don't need you.
They do. MOre than you realize.
and when they do grow up, they will realize just how good of a father you were during this time.
Im worried about you. If ad's is what you need right now, go to the dr.s and talk about it. Please do this for yourself please.
I wish there was some other kind of words of wisdom to give you , only that I do care and I don't like hearing how depressed you are.
****hugs****
I appreciate everyone's concern. I know this is a particularly bad bout of depression. If it were not for my faith in Jesus Christ right now, I know for certain I wouldn't make it. So even though I feel pretty down this week, especially with the holidays and my D looming so close, I have been finding a measure of peace in talking with my Lord and seeking His guidance.
Yesterday and today I have been stewing over another curt little email from W. I wouldn't normally reply, but this one warrants one.
<her L> said you agreed to sign the draft of the sep agreement that will be filed & that you have received them. I feel like when the divorce is final you will finally stop trying to shame me into not divorcing you. <S7> said you told him God hates divorce & the only reason in the Bible for it is the hardness of peoples hearts. I told him I hate it too, but stuff happens all the time that we don't like & I love him bunches.... I DIDN'T say what the truth is that Daddy's hard, cold attitude toward me had alot to do with the current hardness of my heart toward him & that when he puts his innocent children in the middle it makes my heart harder & very angry. I won't be poisoning them against you.
Thank you for agreeing to sign the papers. See you at the YMCA at 5pm for our conference with <YMCA program director>.
I'm not sure what she's talking about regarding the papers -- I have heard nothing from my L in nearly two weeks.
I considered the following text to send to W in reply, but I feel it is too strongly worded. <I HAVE NOT SENT THIS YET> See what you think:
You say you won't be poisoning the children against me? But your actions and your attitude all say otherwise. You already have been alienating my children from me, over and over, for too long now. And I fear the consequences of that have been made manifest in our sons behaviors of late.
Again, you try to turn this around completely on me, but we both know the hardness of heart that Jesus spoke of, especially regarding Divorce, refers to your cold, hardened heart as evidenced by your newfound embracing of Worldly values.
The point is you still presume to know me, the cut of my character, the measure of my soul. You perceive my actions in the worst light you can possibly muster, and continue to thus make unfounded pronouncements about what I am thinking or feeling.
You have been wrong about me all along. You have continually misjudged me for many years, especially now.
Even now you think I am trying to shame you into not divorcing me. But you refuse to hear me when I have said that I can no longer oppose you in that. Oh, I do indeed continue to stand against Divorce and all the ills it wreaks on its victims, especially having witnessed it myself. But I long ago realized I can't stop you. One cannot control someone else, and it is pure folly to try. It is work enough alone for one to control one's self, let alone others.
So for the record, I will neither promote nor hinder your madness.
And at the same time I will maintain my stance against Divorce, for the sake of our sons if nothing else. We -- you and I -- both made a promise together at the outset of our relationship to break this cycle of divorce in our families. It matters not your petty rationale for now reneging and ending our marriage. But for the sake of our sons, I will hold fast to that pledge we both made: if the cycle won't end with you or me, I will, at the least, guide our sons to end this curse in their generation, God willing.
As such, I will guard our sons against the jaded, worldly notion that one can "normalize" Divorce and Adultery. They will know that Divorce was never in God's intention. They will know that God hates divorce and for the very reasons our sons can see plainly for themselves -- how it destroys the family and wrecks the lives of the innocent children, all for the foolish vanities and the misplaced sense of entitlement of one or both parents.
No, you again misjudge me -- I am sorry, but if you perceive a "cold, hard attitude" towards you, as you put it, it is for their sake and is leveled at your actions and behaviors. It is garnered from many months, years now, of witnessing this continual injury against me, against our sons, against our family, against the ideals and values we once shared and against the soul of the woman I loved.
When we are finally divorced, I will no longer give a care to what you do in your own privacy -- as long as no shred of it ever touches our sons lives. What is truly private must be kept private. I will not tolerate the actions of you or your cohorts to undermine the spiritual and moral foundation we're trying to establish for Liam and Nathan's lives, either through overt words or actions or through subtle blurring of the lines between Right and Wrong. You know what I'm talking about.
And if you truly do love your children as much or more than your own pleasures, then this cold, selfish drive to alienate our children from me, their father, will stop
I know this is already a long post, but I wanted to say that at this point I don't know what I can say to my W. I don't know whether to just not respond to her anymore at all, or -- since that never seemed to help in the past -- to let her have it "with both barrels". I am realistic to know at this point that there is nothing I can say to avert her from the D -- I already know it to be useless for me to try to shame or otherwise convince her to stay this D. That's not my chief concern right now anyway. My concern is that she continues to malign me and my character, if not to my sons faces then indirectly through others and by her disrespectful actions towards me.
Even worse, she objects to my moral guidance to our sons where we differ in our convictions. She and her consorts are trying to poison my kids' minds into thinking that D and A are not only normal but a desirable and laudable sacrifice to be made. I know this to be an affront on the very moral system our children need. The current conflict between W and I boils down to this one all-important moral disagreement.
I wonder if even that is a lost cause. Can she be so unloving towards them that she would whitewash her own actions by trying to pervert the truth -- by saying a sin is not a sin? I understand she might fear that the consequences might very well be the loss of respect from her sons. But would that be any worse than perverting her children's moral compass and potentially damning then to the same fate?
I don't know what to do.
NoCode,
I have recently simply "decided" not to respond to stbxh's venom. I prefer not to defend myself when he lays into me about what a bad wife I was. I have told him not to start any R talk and I do not either. I do not "Bible thump" him (his words) because it is his walk with God and not mine.
Teach your sons what you want them to learn from you about morals and integrity. Your teachings of what is right and wrong can certainly supercede your stbxw's version of what is sin and what is not. Worry about you and your sons.. not her.. Don't respond to her..
I'm sorry to hear that NC, will keep you in my prayers. It's pretty sad/enraging that the WAS don't see the damage they do to kids just to get their way.
Enraging definitely.
NC, first of all a 3 year old marking up a bookcase with crayons and marker? What 3 year old hasn't done that??? I think that's kind of an age where they are actively "exploring" a lot. And yeah, your S7 is probably going through a hard time just like my son. I've read several books on autistic spectrum kids and they all say that routine, stability, consistency are so important. And they don't have that now like they did before. So they act out. It's to be expected from what I've read. Your boys need you to be the stable rock in their lives that's always available to them. Yeah, my kids see me as the boring mom who's always there and their Dad is the exciting rock star that comes in 1 1/2 days a week and takes them to the movies and buys them toys. But I think when looking back, they will appreciate me being there for them, not able to spend lots of $$ on them, but just being there. And it will be like that with your boys as well.
Karen
((((nc))))
I wish I could tell you to send it or not to send it. Its tricky, but honestly what do you have to lose at this point. If you feel strongly that you need to tell her these things, then do it. These are your honest thoughts, and honestly is never wrong. Especially since she is he$$ bent on divorce.
Im so sorry for you and your boys, you are a wonderful father and must concentrate on that, and ditto karen.. boys do things like this.. and considering what is going on, this is not major.
I hope you try and have a good thanksgiving..
My thoughts are with you.
NC-
IMHO, sened it. In the grand scheme of things, what is the worst that can happen? She will continue to move forward and divorce you? I think that is a foregone conclusion at this point. If it will help give you peace....send it.
Now about you and your depression.....First and foremost, get to the doctor and get the ADs. Secondly, quit wallowing and acknowledging that your life is in the crapper. I know where you are coming from and how it feels. But until you tell yourself that you are going to try to make every second of your life better than the one before, you are going to be stuck.
Forget about the bad and concentrate on the blessings in your life brother.
Have a great Thanksgiving.....believe it or not you have lots to be thankful for.
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.
I sit here alone for the first Thanksgiving I can ever recall. And yet I can say that it is not nearly as bad as one would think. Even though I happen to know that OM got to sit down to dinner with W, with my two little boys present, while I am alone, I am somewhat surprised to find that I am in unusually good spirits.
Part of that might be that I went ahead and sent W a toned-down revisal of the letter, making it more concise. Even in its shortened less abrasive form I have no doubt it will not be received well by W. But I am not worried about that any longer. I feel I can say my peace now without feeling imprisoned by her slant on the truth, and it is a load off my mind.
And then today I roasted an absolutely splendid turkey breast (Cajun style, hoooooo, boy!) and had cornbread dressing and all the trimmings. (I forgot to fix a dessert though -- going to have to attend to that, even though I need to watch my weight better.) I have a ton of leftovers to feed my two boys when I get them tomorrow, plus lots of meat for sandwiches. (Wish my freezer was bigger.)
So all in all I had a very satisfying holiday meal. And I sat down to the table and held a very long and solemn prayer, an extended blessing to give thanks for all that the Lord Almighty has given me and my family. I do have a lot to be thankful for.
I am thankful for my two sons. And I am thankful for the love we share.
I am thankful for my family.
I am thankful for our health.
I am thankful for my friends -- all of my friends, those locally and those that I talk to via the ether.
I am thankful for having food, a car, a job and the means to take care of myself and my kids.
I am thankful that we live in a relatively peaceful country.
I am thankful for my time here on this planet.
I am thankful for my renewed walk with God, that I was able to reorder my life's priorities before it was too late.
I am thankful that I have finally found out the true nature of the woman I thought I had married, and that it was not another 5, 10 or 15 years before her true colors came out.
I am thankful for the freedom I have from a person who would take and take from me while giving so little in return. I am thankful just knowing that some day the blood-sucking will finally come to an end.
I am thankful for the peace that comes of solitude, that for the first time in a long time I can sit and think and meditate without someone constantly busting my chops.
I am thankful that I can now follow my creative spark without being made to feel guilty and to do so on my own terms, not someone else's.
I am thankful to know that however bad it gets in this life, I can always be sure that it will eventually get far better.
And I am thankful for the gift that is my Lord Jesus Christ.
Happy Thanksgiving NC!!! Hope you're having a good day. This was my first holiday without the kids, so a little sad. But you might want to do what I did this year which is to volunteer with my church (or other churches if your's doesn't have that) but volunteering to do Thanksgiving dinner for the poor/homeless people in town. It was the most wonderful day to spend Thanksgiving, b/c everyone there just had the true spirit. I met some people from church I didn't know, and some friends were there. It was nice.
My vote if you haven't already sent the email is to not send it. I think that's what W is predicting, expecting, asking for, all that. A 180 would be for you not to react to her provocation I think. Also I'm sorry but I don't think your email will in any way get your W to think about her actions, but more likely she'll be thinking "there's his cold, hard attitude coming out again" which I know is not the case and not your intent but will be your W's perception I think. If you did already send it, then no biggie, I don't think it will change anything in your sitch really. But just my 2 cents.
I was just talking to somebody yesterday about how we've learned about priorities with this. I was def. putting my kids first, maybe God and my H a tie for second, and me last. In future I would like to make God first, and any future H before my kids, and also give some to myself also. I realize I need GALing time and some me time and everything. Having breaks lately has been a really good thing. Karen
And yet I can say that it is not nearly as bad as one would think
So all in all I had a very satisfying holiday meal
I do have a lot to be thankful for.
nocode, how wonderful that you could make yourself a nice meal and enjoy it. I am very proud of you.
Your list of things that you are thankful for was wonderful to read. Made me feel warmth, made me realize just what a wonderful person you truly are. Made me realize that you cannot give up on yourself or your sons. Keep your faith tucked right next to you and you can get through this.
Thanks, Karen, Lwb,
Yes, I did indeed have a great Thanksgiving weekend. I've had my S's since Friday morning and we've had some good quality time together.
One thing came up this (Sunday) morning. S7 tried to tell me about a conversation he had with W. He said W and he had a conversation about how I will use corporal punishment (spanking) if our kids behavior escalates into worse and worse degrees. He was very gingerly bringing up the subject out of fear of what this might do to me in a custody proceeding.
I sat S7 down and talked it over with him, asking him a series of rhetorical questions. I told him I loved him and his little brother so very much that I cannot rule out corporal measures to discipline them. I explained to him that my intent is to never seriously hurt either of them but to get them to understand the magnitude of their transgression at the given time. As such, I told him, even though it truly pains me to ever have to raise my hand so, I have no regrets for anything I have done, since I do it for their sake.
(Some here may be of the opinion that traditional means of disciplining children is too cruel or humane. If sorry, but I am sorry if that happens to offend you. I do love two boys,)
I'm not sure from what S7's shy words just what sort of angle W is actually playing off this information for, although I can hazard a guess.
---
I finished up Steinbeck's "East of Eden" today. It has been while since I last read it, and this time the events and conflicts are so much more close to home. It has had me pondering things all weekend. But I'll say more on this later.
Good Morning nc...
I agree with you on the spanking thing, especially when it endangers their own life.
I know how much you love your boys, I can just imagine what she was telling him.
hang in there... I do believe what comes around goes around.
Your a wonderful man and husband, don't forget that.
NC,
We all know that there is a difference between loving discipline and child abuse. We all know that you love your boys and you would only spank them to teach them a valuable life lesson.
Remember what the bible says, "Spare the rod, spoil the child". Most of us were brought being spanked when we needed it. We all turned out alright.
Believe me I teach school, and kids are so much more disrespectful and fail to follow the rules than in the past. I believe it is because they know there will be no consequences from their parents of any kind.
I am going to avoid the whole spanking discussion
but wanted to say that I know that you realize that if you and your wife do not see eye to eye on this, that she will, if she has to, use it against you.
Glad you had some great quality time over the weekend. That always makes my heart happy.
I will ditto lwb's sentiments. You may have to look at alternative parenting techniques that bring you both closer to the middle, if she uses it against you.
If you're interested an author that you might like (I think) is Thomas Lickona. I read his book, I think it was something like "Raising Good Children" for a college class and really liked it. I want to reread that myself!
I hope you're having a good weekend. It's very pretty where I live but it's too cold--I'm ready for spring already!!! Karen
My thanks to all of you for your words of advice and concern. Believe me, you second guess any form of discipline you take against your children, corporal or not.
Karen, I think that's the guy who wrote "Character Matters". I'm going to see if his books are at our local library branch.
Well, this has been another doozy of a week. It hit all the highs and all the lows it possibly could have.
First was the revelation that the WWOTN (Wicked Witch of the North = the MIL) is suddenly making plans to move back this way, supposedly to be closer to W and the kids. W appears to be encouraging her to do so -- at least W probably thinks its her idea to encourage her mother to move back closer: I suspect W just doesn't recognize that her mother is manipulating her again.
I'm also curious to find out the real reason why the WWOTN has suddenly decided to move back here away from her sister (W's aunt). Those two must have had a falling out, which would not surprise me one bit. Apparently the MIL cannot get along with anyone, but that's nothing new either.
The biggest crisis this week is that on Tuesday once again S7 got in trouble in the YMCA after school program. Somehow he again got ahold of a magic marker -- even after he has been specifically and expressly forbidden from ever touching them again -- and inadvertently got ink all over the school cafeteria. This is his THIRD such offense now, all in a month's time.
The counselors asked me into the cafeteria to see the mess. When I saw it I did not know what to say. On the drive home I just about had a nervous breakdown while trying to keep the emotions under control.
S7 was suspended from the before & after school programs for the remainder of the week. Normally on the third offense the Y will suspend them for the remainder of the entire school year, but since there are questions about where S7 got the markers (I know it to be his friends) the counselors decided to wait until they could investigate the incidence .
The really odd thing is that S7 had a perfect day in class. That would normally be cause for great celebration, especially since this is the first time he's ever gotten such a high remark. But this destructive behavior in the after-school program has cast that into oblivion.
I know that W is blaming me for S7's terrible behavior. I can't say that I blame her either -- all three of S7's incidents took place on my watch. If I didn't know better, I'd say that S7 is doing a pretty good job to ensure I no longer have a say in his life.
If I didn't know better, I'd say that S7 is doing a pretty good job to ensure I no longer have a say in his life.
But....you do know better. Please tell me you do! I don't think his timing (happens to be your day) have anything to do with it. Please don't overthink, nocode. I wonder, where do you think your insecurities as a father come from? Don't get me wrong, I have the same fairly new insecurities as a mom lately, I am just wondering about your thoughts.
Don't overthink. You are Dad. They love you. That's the bottom line.
I'm sorry, Lwb -- it's really hard not to over-think, especially after the third such fiasco. One time could be a mistake of ignorance. Two times could be a lapse in judgement and a failure to really understand the consequences of the first time. But three times?
And yes, I am Dad, and I know they love me. But that doesn't mean they respect me, ... and to a male, respect is the very foundation to loving him.
I didn't understand this until after the bomb and a lot of reading and soul-searching, and it's something that tends to be true for all men: You can love a man with what you think is all of your heart, but if you don't respect him, then you might as well not love him at all. It's not like this for most women, I know. A few, yes. But for most women it is the opposite than for men, love comes before respect.
So my insecurities and my depression and all my self-doubts stem from that erosion in respect that W had in me. Now that is gone, there's no getting it back, not from her. I believe that is the chief reason why that when women say its over, its over -- even they know instinctively that they cannot rekindle in themselves the spark of respect needed to love their spouses again.
My only concern in all the world now is to try to love and raise my sons. But with their mother in the picture, her disrespect -- not her mere lack of respect, but her utter contempt and dis-respect, conscious or not -- feeds into the disregard my sons are developing for me. I do not take their actions and behaviors personally -- they're just children and they cannot help it.
This is all just the consequences of my failure to command the dignity I was due all these years. Instead of practicing true humility and at the same time curbing any degree of disrespect that W built up for me, I tried to avoid conflict out of laziness and cowardice. I yielded to W when I should not have. I delegated to her a lot of the decisions in our home life, all under the misguided pretense of keeping peace. I allowed the problems to fester within us and the differences to widen the gap between us.
And now the chickens have come home to roost. And my children are continuing to pay the consequences for it.
And to top it all off, W now wants to bring her OM into their lives, to fill the fatherly gap she created when she dumped their father and proceeded to alienate him (me) from them.
No, I know this all sounds so dire and depressing -- and it is. But I am man enough to know how the deck is stacked, I just have to play the hand I've been dealt as best I can. I am realistic enough to know that there is a strong chance W will persist in alienating me further once she gets her beloved D. She seemed ridiculously surprised that I even wanted to be their father after she dropped the bomb, just as she had already made up in her own mind that I no longer loved her too.
I am not deterred, however. I've thought long and hard on this. Even were this to turn out for the worse, even if W were to succeed in alienating me from our S's, still I would take this action to pursue being their father, acting as their father -- I have nothing else more important to me. Nothing.
I may not like the terrain in which I am fighting this battle. But it is what it is.
Karen, I think that's the guy who wrote "Character Matters". I'm going to see if his books are at our local library branch.
Yep. I haven't read that one though. Was that good do you remember?? Raising Good children was interesting to me b/c when I was reading it it was like my dad (who raised me and my bro) had read it and followed it to a T. But I know he didn't. Just instinctively did this kind of parenting. If I could parent half as well as my dad, I'll be thrilled! I'm going to check the library for his books too!!!
Your MIL sounds like my MIL!!! They came to church Sunday. D9 sang in the children's choir and I was up front to join the church (yeah I know I should have done it sooner but didn't want to stand in front by myself so was waiting for more people to join with me). I looked for MIL after the service and didn't see her. They had us standing up front getting hugs and welcomes from everyone and MIL didn't come up. They didn't say anything to D9 after the service either. D9 tried to call him last night and he didn't answer the phone (battery was dead). Then he left a voicemail today telling D9 she looked cute and did great. Oh, sorry, forgot for a second this wasn't my thread!!!
The really odd thing is that S7 had a perfect day in class. That would normally be cause for great celebration, especially since this is the first time he's ever gotten such a high remark. But this destructive behavior in the after-school program has cast that into oblivion.
I know that W is blaming me for S7's terrible behavior. I can't say that I blame her either -- all three of S7's incidents took place on my watch. If I didn't know better, I'd say that S7 is doing a pretty good job to ensure I no longer have a say in his life.
Some thoughts on this stuff. I've read in several books that this is kind of common. Children will struggle all day at school or daycare and be "good" and then when they get home with their parent(s) they act horribly. It's supposed to actually be a compliment to your parenting b/c they trust you enough to act their worse and know you will still love them. My S15 tells me tons of awful stuff re: to his depression and his thoughts on marriage and divorce and stuff and hasn't said a word on that to his dad. Doesn't trust his dad in my opinion or feel close enough to him or whatever.
I have had the same problem!!! Kids are always horrible I've noticed the day I get them back from H. Transitions are hard for AS children and believe this is very true!!! Also, D9 told me H kept them both up until 11 both nights he had them this week so I think some of this is just they are tired and cranky.... Karen
Just bumping you up and checking up on you!
Yeah, wish you would post and give us a quick (or long) update on how you're doing whether good or bad!!! Hopefully the no news is good news...Karen
Hello, all,
Nothing really new to report. I had a fairly quiet birthday yesterday. I worked from home, then spent the evening with my S's.
Today I took them to another birthday for a friend's DD. It was a combined Disney Princess and Disney Pirates themed birthday. Lots of fun for the boys.
Both S7 and S4 had spectacularly good days at their respective schools yesterday. This during W's tenure, just a week after last week's fiasco with S7. I am very happy for S7's sake he has been getting his act together, but needless to say I feel W is going to smugly use this against me, to say that our children cannot behave under my care.
All I can say is, it is was it is -- there's nothing I can do about it now. If this comes back to haunt me, well, then so be it. I'm getting to the point where I'm too tired to worry about it anymore.
I tried to call a friend this evening after the party. She's going through a rough time right now, as she has a friend of hers who committed suicide earlier in the week. I had promised I'd call her but couldn't get ahold of her -- she sent me a text in response to my voicemail that she'd call me back later some other time. As long as she's okay.
I am also loathing the prospect of the MIL coming back into regular contact with my S's. They don't need that kind of person in their lives, not on a day-to-day basis certainly. W wants her to act as a childcare supplement, to save W some money in that area. If she thinks she's gonna' still get the same in C-S from me under that unpalatable scenario, she's got another thing coming. I'd almost pay to specifically NOT have MIL anywhere in the picture. Evil. Just evil she is.
But what can I say without coming off the bad guy?
But what can I say without coming off the bad guy?
You could try throwing water on her. It worked in the Wizard of Oz.
You could try throwing water on her. It worked in the Wizard of Oz.
Hee!!!
I think silence is golden for this situation. Don't get sucked into another conversation with your wife. If she starts up a talk about this (actually tries to throw it in your face), just say "I'm sorry you see it that way, I am doing my best" and leave it at that.
Glad you got to enjoy part of your birthday with your sons. How is Christmas looking for you guys? Do you get to see them at all?
I am also glad your friend is ok.
If she thinks she's gonna' still get the same in C-S from me under that unpalatable scenario, she's got another thing coming. I'd almost pay to specifically NOT have MIL anywhere in the picture. Evil. Just evil she is.
But what can I say without coming off the bad guy?
[/quote]Don't let her know about the pay thing. She'd use that to her advantage I'm sure! Witholding financial support for that sounds good to me. I should think both parents should approve of a childcare person, and you shouldn't have to fund someone that's not good for the children. Of course, legally I don't know. Maybe ask your L? I would not get into it at all with your W. Not a word. I'm sure she already knows you feel anyway doesn't she???
And boy you sure kept your birthday quiet!!! Happy Birthday, NC!!! The Disney party sounds like fun; hope you had a good one!!! Karen
You could try throwing water on her. It worked in the Wizard of Oz.
Hah! Hey, see now, I
knew there was a reason I refer to MIL as the WWOTN (Wicked Witch of the North). Why didn't
I think of that?
How is Christmas looking for you guys? Do you get to see them at all?
It's an even-numbered year, so I get them for Christmas Eve this year, and W would get them Christmas Day. But W is balking at my proposed terms (according to my draft of the separation agreement) for when the change-over is to occur, which is currently set at 9 PM Christmas Eve. She wants it to be
earlier in the evening, no later than 7 PM, for reasons she states has to do with how long it takes to get our two S's to settle down and get to sleep. I want it later because I would like them to have enough time to open presents with me prior to bedtime -- her plan makes that nigh impossible.
On a positive note, I have a vacation lined up. W asked me what I was going to do both on the day after Christmas and the day after New Year's, so she could plan her work schedule and childcare accordingly. I told W I had made plans to take a vacation trip to visit family starting the day after Christmas and returning on New Year's Day. I also said that I would like to take our S's with me to visit my mother and W's sister -- but since that would be during S7's birthday (Dec. 30) I understood if she opposed me having them both away that week.
To my surprise W said it would be okay wth her, that she could celebrate S7's eighth birthday when he got back the following weekend (she said it really didn't matter to her or to S7 when they actually celebrated. Dumb-founded, I thought "Yeah, okay,
whatever."
I was fully prepared to travel alone, but I will be more than happy to share this trip with my little ones. This is a pleasant surprise. (At the same time, I am cynically thinking that W appears to be more concerned that she is freed up from the responsibilities of taking care of our S's on New Year's Eve, so she can ring in the new year with her OM, just like last year. But if she lets herself be so distracted from her S's, then that's to my advantage. Her loss.)
I am particularly happy that my mother and my side of the family will for the first time be able to share in celebrating S7's birthday. My mom is tickled to death.
And boy you sure kept your birthday quiet!!! Happy Birthday, NC!!! The Disney party sounds like fun; hope you had a good one!!!
It was indeed, thanks. We had a
lot of December birthdays to celebrate yesterday, it was pretty amazing.
Hah! Hey, see now, I knew there was a reason I refer to MIL as the WWOTN (Wicked Witch of the North). Why didn't I think of that?
The WWON is the good witch. You want the west
East, West, North or South -- it doesn't really matter. To me, she's the Wicked Witch of the Entire Compass Rose.
Glenda the Good she's not.
A bit of a rhetorical question, for anyone who cares to chime in: What is it with L's?
I am just a little perturbed by the statement I got this weekend from my L. We've had two face-to-face meetings and about a score of emails between us since I took out the retainer for her services, but no serious work involved other than redrafting the material I provided for a separation agreement proposal. I feel I have a good rapport with her in what little interaction we've had, but apparently several times she charged just for reading a simple one paragraph update to the marital situation with my W that I would send via email. Stuff like letting her know about the sale of our marital home, for example.
So far we've blown through more than half the retainer mostly on her reading twelve emails from me. I'm thinking I've learned my lesson there and to shut my yap unless truly necessary.
Am I wrong in this? Or should I just stop helping my atty. to do her job and quit feeding information to her unless she explicitly asks for it, especially if the meter is running?
No offense to anyone here in the legal profession, but some folks I just don't get.
A bit of a rhetorical question, for anyone who cares to chime in: What is it with L's?
Well, from my experiences with L's this past year, my H and his OW both L's and my L and H's L, I have a very low opinion of Ls right now. I'm sure there are a few decent L's out there, but I think they are more the exception than the rule.
I do believe they are primarily motivated by $$$ and yeah, the more they can make in your case the better. Although that may not be better for you. I think their first interest is trying to get as much $$$ as they can and then their secondary interest is to represent you. So I would limit emails or conversation to only that which is essential for your L to know about. I've been frustrated too b/c my L has me come in every week, always wanting me to come in asap, and then there never seems to be much of a point to the meeting other than having me read some legal documents she filed. I mean I can read those at home for free!!! And she'll ask me to read them 2 or 3 times! Anyway, sorry for the digression, but yeah, just remember they are basically like those cabs where the meter is running, but the L's have a very expensive meter going at all times!!! I'm resolved after my D, to never, ever have an L in my life again!!! Karen
NC, what's up? Are you getting ready for Christmas? Hope you can post soon and give us an update!!! Hope you're doing well. I know a lot of people are getting some "crud" that's going around, so hope you're ok!
Karen
Hey nc, haven't had a chance to chime in on attorneys. Even though we used the mediator, we thought she was way overpriced, and left and right, we would receive a bill from her for never less than $400. And these were times we weren't even in the office!!! She also wasn't unbiased (a few comments to me and to xH that weren't 'fair', but luckily we saw through them).
She keeps emailing me that she wants to meet one more time, to make sure everything is in order (house, insurance, retirement, etc). I spoke with xH and we both agreed we don't need to meet, everything is going fine and we are handling things. I will email her to terminate our relationship before she can charge us any more.
I can ONLY imagine when there are 2 lawyers and fueding people involved. These attorneys are going to charge a lot! I haven't totaled it up, but mediation cost us over $5,000. Not saying they are all in it to 'screw' the client by billing every single thing, its just the way the game is played.
I just found it really difficult because I would have so many questions, about our life, our future, our kids. But I was afraid to email and ask her because we didn't have $200 to spare that week. It shouldn't have to be that way for anyone.
Are you guys 'splitting' the divorce costs?
Hello, Karen. Hello, Lwb. Hello, one and all.
Lwb, W and I each have our own lawyers now. Last Spring W hired that overly-biased mediator and we split her fees between us -- worst money I've ever spent. The personal L on the other hand, I feel, is in my corner, but she has proven to be more mercenary than I had anticipated. W's L is just another divorce attorney, all too ready to help someone destroy their family just to line her own pocket.
In the last two weeks, at W's suggestion we have eliminated (me grudgingly) the morning phone calls between our S's and whichever parent is not in custody. We've been having twice-a-day calls (once in the morning before the start of the day, and once in the evenings right before bedtime) since the separation began. Now, for some reason, W has rejiggered the whole deal and has tried to make it look like S7's idea. I find the length of time between contact to be too much silence. I already miss my S's as it is, and now to only get a chance to talk to them each night during W's custody is a bit much.
I have taken this time and tried to work it to my advantage -- I have gone about as dark as I can. And it hurts me to not talk as much with my kids, but I find it more peaceful without W's interference in my life.
When I dropped off the kid's stuff Friday Night during the change-over, W had some mail and other junk for me to take away. Half the stuff in the box, it turned out, were not even mine -- they were duly her mother's crap. And then hidden in the box was W's latest draft of the Separation Agreement (SA). So the box of stuff was just a(nother) Trojan Horse to get her version of the SA in my hands.
I've given up why she plays these games.
This morning, W sent me an email bomb again:
Hello,
I sent a whole box of clothes & only got 2prs of pants back. Can you please give us back what I sent. Also the kids made hot plates at school for me so I hope you didn't buy anything for them to give to me. The best present you can give me is to go the bank & sign the separation agreement & have it notarized & then give it to me can do the same. I only put down $700 for cs, but the lawyer calculated $905 so maybe if you sign the one for 700 they will accept that. I don't like you having them for 7days because I feel that you are a cold dark place I don't want to be & I don't want them to be. But S7 feels it is fair so if you will try to be loving & light I'll agree to it grudgingly. Please stop trying to guilt & shame me through them . Please, next time S4 cries & misses me pls call. I always have the 555-xxxx phone in my pocket.
You don't understand my anger & resentment. I repressed it for a long time. Scenes from the last 8 yrs flash through my head. While you were laid off I worked 6 days & did paperwork on the 7th. I cried every day for missing S7 & you didn't comfort me. I came in from working & had to cook or dish up what I had picked up because you didn't have anything ready for supper & do laundry instead of spending the time with S7. S7 was in his pen. Did you take him out to walk or play?....I don't think so. Kids need face time. Your face has been buried in the computer with your back to your family. I shouldn't have tried to make a family with you. I'm sorry. My resentment festered after that. I tried to just accept it & make the best of it, but it hurt me & S7 & then S4.
Something snapped in me after my surgery & I couldn't repress it any more. It had nothing to do with another man except that I asked several people at work (one of which was Sam because he cared for a special needs step son for 10 years & has experience with the school systems in Wake & Franklin county)about schools & where to move to when I left you & ended up talking about these issues & was told from what they've seen I have been a good momma. That melted a cold dark hard heart & I feel more alive & peaceful now than I've ever felt I think. The messages I got from you were that I wasn't disciplining the kids enough or right etc...... you could tell me the problem, but then turned your back & left me to find solutions & then mostly ignored them...or criticized them.
I'm sorry for failing you. For not being able to get through to you & get help with our issues before it killed our relationship. The person I am now is the real me. It's not right for you. It's not perfect. It is warm & loving & understanding & fun & firm but fair & good for the kids. Being away from them for 1 day tears my guts out.
W
This letter was yet another dagger coming out of the blue to stab me in the back of my heart. What on earth prompts her to spontaneously try to justify herself to
me? So much of her WAW spiel is just so utterly wrong and so obviously a load of B-S, but for what purpose? My first reaction is how completely mistaken she is about so much, and how she is like this ignorant little pre-teen with misguided notions of what Love is or is not. I could go into each of her assertions one-by-one and blow them apart, but I am tired of her drama -- she won't listen anyway.
Mind you, I am not saying I was a saint by any stretch -- nor that she did not have a valid complaint against my failings and mistakes in our marriage. I most certainly screwed up and took our marriage and her love for granted, and for then foolishly despairing of life, even in the face of what blessings I did have. But when I look at her own actions and misdeeds, nothing
I did could have ever justified her adulterous betrayal of me, our marriage and our family.
Nothing.
So the bottom-line is that she doesn't have a leg to stand upon.
But still, again,
why -- if I am such a horrible, unreasonable person, as she has come to need to believe -- try to justify her actions to
me, the person she claims she has to eliminate from her life? Who is she still trying to pass her weak excuses off on -- me? God? her own self? A combination perhaps?
I have pondered a response, but at this point I really don't think it's going to matter. I've said all I've needed to say before, especially since there's nothing she will really hear anyway. This latest email proves that to me all too well.
This afternoon I dropped off a box of the kids' clothes on the doorstep of her apartment without knocking, and just continued on my way. I did the same yesterday with the junk that she had given me that belonged to her mother. W called me later to ask why I hadn't knocked or called first and to see if the boys might have wanted to see me. She said I was being too uncommunicative. Whatever.
My friend "M" suggested that I be the one to file the D. After tiring of all these futile efforts I've tried to save my M, I am at the point where I am considering it, if for no other reason than to maybe put an end to this torture. I have been in limbo for so long now that it has added more pain to this agony. At this point there's no other end in sight and to prolong it only impedes me from finally starting to heal from this injury. A last hour reprieve is a pipe dream where W is concerned. I have had to be brutally honest with myself -- unlike some other spouses, my W just does not have the spiritual depth or personal integrity needed to carry out a turnaround honestly and fully. I have lied to myself since we first met, and bought into this image of her as being an honest, loving and God-fearing person.
I know the fact of me filing for the inevitable D, were I to do so, wouldn't convince
her of anything. She's too set in her mindset. In her perverted world-view she would probably laugh with glee were I to do so. She'd also try to say the D was
my choice, even though she leaves us no other alternative.
But Biblically, because she is an unrepentant adulterer, I would be justified to decide to end this M. I
have clearance as far as the letter of the scriptural word goes. I just don't know if my own conscious can handle it, even if my forgiveness of her brings no reconciliation.
But I am still (only) pondering it. I am sure that will be a topic of discussion when I talk intimately with my family next weekend.
(Sorry for the long post.)
[quote=NoCodeBlues]
I have taken this time and tried to work it to my advantage -- I have gone about as dark as I can. And it hurts me to not talk as much with my kids, but I find it more peaceful without W's interference in my life.
That's good--you're turning the lemons into lemonade. There always seems to be some good even in bad situations.
So the box of stuff was just a(nother) Trojan Horse to get her version of the SA in my hands.
I think she's kind of funny really. It's kind of laughable if you can think about it.
I've given up why she plays these games.
Hey, my H and OW are the ones that give my D9 whistle or music toys every week to annoy me. I'm guessing it's because their emotional maturity level is maybe about 10 or 12 years old??? My kids are more mature than them.
re: your Wife's email. She sounds like she is messed-up, guilty, she doesn't sound like a happy person to me. I do think some of the problems in your M certainly stem from the OM, but also I think the stress of having AS children lead many to divorce as well. You both dealt with the stress (it's such a huge amount of stress) just by dealing with it in different ways.
But still, again, why -- if I am such a horrible, unreasonable person, as she has come to need to believe -- try to justify her actions to me, the person she claims she has to eliminate from her life? Who is she still trying to pass her weak excuses off on -- me? God? her own self? A combination perhaps?
They all do that. My H is always saying stuff that leads me to think he thinks I'm a horrible person. One time he made a comment about me being a horrible mom and I'm like, WTH, I've devoted myself to the kids prob. almost too much in the past. They have to make you a horrible person in their mind, b/c if you aren't horrible, then she would be the horrible person in the R. And that's probably too painful for her to face.
I have pondered a response, but at this point I really don't think it's going to matter. I've said all I've needed to say before, especially since there's nothing she will really hear anyway.
I agree. I would ignore it or if not, then maybe just an empathetic letter about the stress you both went through and you both made mistakes in the marriage or something like that? Agree with the points she made that might have a kernel of truth in them?
W called me later to ask why I hadn't knocked or called first and to see if the boys might have wanted to see me. She said I was being too uncommunicative. Whatever.
Yeah, but I'm thinking if you dropped by to see the boys and visit with them during her time with them, wouldn't she also have been upset by that. Sometimes it sounds like you can't win or you're kind of set up. No matter what you do is wrong. So try not to worry about that kind of stuff, although I know it's hard!!!
My friend "M" suggested that I be the one to file the D.
But I think you have to make that decision yourself. No one can understand your own sitch like you can. Pray and think about it first before you do something you may later regret. I think you should be 100% confident if you file for D, b/c believe me it is an awful process.
I'm just glad you posted, and are ok!
Karen
the best thing to do is not to get riled up, they have their own version of what happened and we will never ever see it the way they've set it up on their brains, picking only all the bad stuff (according to stbx, we "always"fought) so, no reason to beat a dead horse.
I hope regardless, you have a good Christmas)))))
NC,
Hey friend. I'm sorry that she still chooses to be so unkind. Believe me you will come out ahead.
I watched a movie called "Women" the other night. It had Meg Ryan in it. Yes, it's kinda of a chick flick, but also I think it has a message in it for anyone who has ever been betrayed. She goes through a lot of emotions we all go through. I don't want to give away the movie, so if you get a chance, rent it!
Sending lots of hugs you and your little guys!
Hugs, Yoyo
Hugs, Yoyo
NC, don't know if you'd be interested but Yoyo, Kat, and I are going to watch it "virtually" together Saturday if you'd be interested in joining in? But I understand if you don't want to of course!
Karen
nc...
Im sorry, her email is really messed up.
Yoyo is right, you will come out ahead, and at this point, I see you filing.
I wanted to say Merry christmas to you, and to tell you that you are a wonderful person, and you have lifted me up when I was really down. Thanks for being there.
Blessings~ to you and those sweet boys.
Tal,
I really appreciate your kind words. I hope you and your family have a blessed Christmas -- and I hope the Lord can help warm your poor H's heart, for all of your sakes.
And I want to extend the best wishes for a very merry Christmas to all of you here, I don't know what I'd so without you.
W is so pathetic. It's as if she's trying so desperately to wring every last bit of love I have for her completely out of my heart. And the "request"/demand for me to agree to wrap up the SA as her idea of a "gift" to her is a gesture meant to stab me in the heart again. She called me directly today again -- not for business with our S's so much as to try to sell her case to me again about the SA.
Karen, Yoyo, I've noted you ladies talking about this movie "Women" in your own threads (and in Kat's) -- I will say you have piqued my curiosity. Chick flicks don't scare me as long as they're any good. And right now I'd rather be distracted by someone else's drama than have to suffer my own.
Unfortunately this weekend I will, by the time everyone sits down to view the movie on Saturday evening, will have just arrived in MS to see family (an 800 mile trip). I would really love to sit in with all of you for the flick, but I dare-say I will be catching up with my mother, my brothers and my SIL. Perhaps I will pre-view the movie Christmas night (the night before me and my two S's begin our trip.) If I do, I'll let you know.
God bless all of you.
Hope you're having a wonderful Christmas although I guess you're probably driving now!!! 800 miles!!! Sounds exhausting! But worth it to see the family of course. Have a great holiday!!! Karen
Hey Mister!! Its soooo weird you just posted to me because I was thinking about you tonight, wondering if you were back in town, and how your trip was! Tell all.
And a serious happy 2009 is in store for us, it just has to be. I spent 2008 getting to know some wonderful people on this board, you being one of them!
Happy New Year!
That is funny, Lwb! I got in with the boys about 8:30 this evening after pushing on through 13 hours on the road. I decided to take a peek in on all my good friends here to wish them a great new year, and then was going to come back to bump my own thread with the latest. And then here you are already. I thank you dearly.
We had a very good time all-in-all with the family. I got to see my mom and visit with my two brothers and their families. We celebrated my oldest's 8th birthday (time to update my sig) and we had a blast together. I won't say there weren't some tension concerning some of the typical family dynamics, but all was good nonetheless.
The big problem is with my (for now) in-laws. My W's sister (SIL) and her family live about 40 miles away from my mom in the same metropolitan area (if one can truly call any city in Mississippi "metropolitan", that is). So I made ever offer to try to get the extended family there to get some time with my two S's. My mother extended a very warm invitation to all of them to come share in S8's birthday, but in the end only SIL showed up.
I understand that this was a work week for most so I offered another opportunity to either have them come visit, we meet somewhere else, or I drive down. At S8's birthday party, I had cleared this with my SIL and she seemed more than receptive.
Finally, I drove down so that my niece (age 16) could visit with my S's who she (supposedly) loves so much and so that we could also visit with W's father who lives in a trailer now on the same property. We drove 42+ miles down poor country roads just to get there in plenty of time before my niece would be leaving for her work. All day and during the trip down I tried calling to see if she or anyone else was there or not, but got no answer. I began to wonder if they had recently changed their phone number and I had just not been informed.
But when I got there no one was home, my S's cousin had already left (this was more than two hours before she was to have left for work.) But we went next door to visit with my S's grandpa as we had planned. He was truly glad to see that we showed up, and I have since come to realize that he really did not think I was going to make the trip all that way. So he seemed fairly surprised and pleased to see we did. We stayed for about forty to fifty minutes, not too long as their grandfather is not in the best of health, physically speaking, and gets winded easily.
The niece never showed and we assumed she had just decided to leave early before heading into work.
On the drive back I stewed over the fact that the cousins and SIL's husband (my brother-in-law by marriage, for now), who I thought got along quite well with all of us including me personally, could not be bothered to see S8 or S4 if I were along. I especially felt hurt that my niece might be blowing us off, the very person I helped babysit and care for when she was but a baby. I felt like I was now persona non grata to them.
Now I realize I am likely projecting my own disappointment and hurt onto this situation. After all, I don't know they did not want to see us or me. But I can't help but feel that this is how my ex-father-in-law and (especially) my ex-step-father-in-law (W's stepfather) must have felt when W's mother (my MIL, the WWOT*) dumped them to move on to someone else. I recall how hurt my brother-in-law (BIL) was hurt when MIL's second husband (SFIL1) was jettisoned after some 20 years being in their lives. BIL and SFIL1 got along very well together and had a good friendship, but SFIL1 was verboten after the divorce. In fact, so many of us were shocked and saddened at how quickly SFIL1 was alienated. Even W was disappointed that it was done so readily.
With that precedence, however, I feel that my niece and nephews and my BIL have all concluded that I am yesterday's news, deadman walking. This wasn't quite the case the last time I talked with them but seems to have germinated about the time of W's trip to visit them in October. I can't be faulted for suspecting that someone -- either W or MIL (or both) put the word out to them.
I will also never forget the parting handshake from BIL when I saw him last eighteen months ago, just weeks after the bomb -- he seemed to be choked up and fighting back distraught, as if this was to be the last time he ever saw me and he was remembering the pain from past "sunderings" in this warped family. And given what has happened upon this latest trip, I guess my impressions were right.
Part of me is very angry right now. I know that if this is indeed the case, that W and/or MIL have laid down the "law" with the family, then they have gone too far.
(I also take from this that the niece-to-niece grapevine has been severed. Which is not surprising since there has been no news from that quarter in a very long time now, not that I've pried.)
What kills me the most is hearing what my S8 had to say. I offered to take both he and his brother to their cousin's place of work just to see if she had a moment to say "Hi" before we traveled all the way back home the next day. S8 said no. I had to ask him three times to make sure I understood him, because I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Each time he said "No" and then finally said to me, (and I paraphrase) "if we drove all this way down here and she didn't bother to stick around to see us, then she won't want us to bother her at work either."
The way he said that I could tell he was hurt and a bit disappointed, but also a bit angry.
I hate, hate, hate how this is hurting my kids... I am so hurt by how this might affect my two little ones that I catch myself swearing to never bother with these weak-willed in-laws ever again.
But then I remember that that is not what my Lord would have me do. I know this cannot be easy for them either, and I know the fault does not lie with them, not entirely. I must continue to try to keep that bridge open to them, even if they continue to knock it down or allow W to burn it down every time.
Sorry for the long post. But that's what I'm known for.
Happy, Happy New Year.
I've had the same experiences too. My MIL came in town a week or 2 ago, came to the church when I joined, and then snuck out and ran off before I could say hi to her and wish her well. Didn't congratulate D9 on her singing in the kid's choir that day. I feel like they are losing out more than I am really.
Another thing that bugs me is that they act like I'm a thief. When MIL sent a Christmas check to the kids last year right after the bomb, and it never showed up she asked H if I had taken it. Luckily his brother's check didn't arrive either, so they realized it wasn't me. Plus it was never cashed. Even H told his mom there would be no way I would ever do that and he knows me that well at least. She actually is an alcoholic so my thought is she prob. never mailed them to us or my BIL. Then my FIL sent us a Christmas card this year but sent the kids' Christmas check to H. The ironic part about that is H never lets the kids have all the money for them. Last year I don't think he even gave them half of it because of the expense of OW or saving to move out or whatever. I would never take a penny of my kids' money but that's just me apparently. Ok, this is fun griping, huh? I just resolve to never be like this. I'm still trying to be friendly with the in-laws that are, and the ones that aren't I'm kind of being distant, but polite to them kind of reflecting back what I'm getting back from them, but I'm always polite of course. They are the ones losing out on our wonderful kids really.... Karen
Glad you had a great time with your sons. Your family sounds wonderful, and I wish you lived closer to them.
About the 'other' side of the family, I think you are partly projecting your hurt/anger onto them. But I also think they could have done more to see your sons while you were so close. I don't think its as much of 'writing you off' as it is putting blood first and feeling uncomfortable around you. They aren't quite sure what to do, I am positive about that. They are in new roles, just like you, learning to live with this.
I am sorry you wasted all that time, but you did do the right thing by making the effort. I wouldn't even bring any of it up to W, I would just say (if asked), "We tried but everyone was busy, but Grandpa enjoyed our visit" or something like that.
What's in your plans for the new year, Mr. Code?
it's the loss NC, big points your way, if s8 realized what happen with your niece he must register somewhere that their dad tried his best to keep the connections with her family members alive. You took the higher road and that's what makes you the person you are.
Happy New Year NC!!!1
Thanks, Karen, Lwb, Cat, all,
Yes, I realize that when push-comes-to-shove, the in-laws will stick with W. While I have seen and observed some families that hold truth, integrity and personal responsibility above blood ties, those values are extremely rare in an age where anything goes. Today most families would side with a relative, even were they as bad as Al Capone or Grigori Rasputin, And especially given the jaundiced eye people tend to have regarding D today, who could blame them for accepting the WAS blood-relative over the trangressed?
Prodigals are a rarity today simply because there is no offense that is even recognized by either party, the lost one and their kin, let alone one needing forgiving. Why not act like a uncivilized, licentious boor? Your family doesn't care either way, right?
So, I can't blame my SIL's family -- and since the precedent has been a long time ago with MIL's multiple M's and D's, I shouldn't be too surprised either. Still I can't say that I am not disappointed... for my sake and for my S's sake.
I just wanted to mention that I got back from the Vet's office a few minutes ago. Our Scottish Terrier, Duncan, is 11 years old now, going on 12. His birthday is in April but I am now sure he won't make it.
He's been staying with W ever since I moved out of our marital home 18 months ago, and I have missed him quite a lot, especially when my two boys aren't there. But I knew Duncan would be better off with W and my sons in the house he's know for most of his life, rather than in some small apartment where he couldn't run outside any time he wanted. That was until W moved out this past September, ... and apparently this has taken it's toll on his health very rapidly. He's got Lymphoma, pretty bad.
I had my sons with me while I tried to discuss this with the vet, but we came to a point where I need to talk to him out of earshot from two small children.
I met W to transfer the boys and their stuff with her right after the appointment. She, being a RN, was familiar with the options I relayed to her, none of which were very promising. We will both be speaking to the vet on Monday to discuss the options further.
I saw Duncan's littermate this past week -- a female belonging to my younger brother. She was in beautiful shape for her age, a stark contrast to her poor brother. Duncan's such a sweet little guy -- I do not want him to suffer anything like the pain his father went through.
I got through the holiday funk fairly well, in pretty good spirits even, given the usual depressive nature this time brings to those of shattered relations. But now I can foresee that my earlier impression that I am going to be fine without the AD's is really coming under it's greatest test. I think my original depression first took real root upon the death of my last pet, Angus, Duncan's father, nearly nine years ago. It looks like we're seeing Dunk's final days now, and I don't know how this is going to affect me, especially now that I have two little ones who have come to love this family member too.
Might be time to go see my own doctor again.
Sorry to be a downer, folks.
If you're feeling down for more than a week or 2, I think you def. should see a doctor. I've been taking ADs for a year now, and plan to at least while I'm going through all the D and job-hunting stress I am now. Now I still have down days sometimes as you know!, but usually the next day even I'm fine, and I didn't have that last year at all, it was just constant down days.
I 100% understand how you feel. We had 2 Westies the first half of our marriage and they were about 12 (she had epilepsy) and 14 when they went to heaven. It wouldn't be heaven without Westies I'm convinced. And Scotties too of course. I still pray for them every night. They were the sweetest, most amazing dogs. I didn't have a dog for several years, felt like it would be cheating on them or something, but then adopted a big old BlackLab/schnauzer/chow mutt from the shelter. They are def. members of the family. Karen
Thanks, Karen, for relating your understanding.
I posted an update
here .
Hardly any time to get ready for it, I am so very sorry about that. You know you did the right thing, but that doesn't ease your pain of loss and the worry about your boys. My heart aches for you, and your family.
Try to get some rest.
I am sad for you. I have two big wonderful dogs and one is getting old. He was our first baby. Had a scare over the Christmas holiday with him and had to handle it all myself. It made me cry to see him acting so old and I know one day... well.. you know... So sorry for you and your sons
So sorry to hear about Duncan, NC. That just happened so quickly! I will pray for your boys of course and you also. My son and I bawled like a baby when our Westies died. It's bad timing I know, but there never really is a good time I guess. My son still prays for our Westies every night, so I know they meant a lot to him. I do think Duncan is in heaven, wouldn't be heaven I don't think without such sweet dogs!!!
oh no, I'm so sorry about your loss!! it's so devastating to loose a pet, I pray the little ones take it better each day. It's supposed to help that you make a memorial for the dog, a special place with a marker to remember him by, i went through it when our cat died. My prayers your way)))))))))))
Hey nocode, just saying hi and checking in on you. How are the boys?
Lwb, LO, Karen, Cat, all, thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
Lwb, I haven't had a lot of interaction with my sons these past two days. But I guess (right now I can only guess) that they're managing through this fairly well. W actually showed up with the boys at Church, which I hadn't really expected given everything. Afterwards, I met up with the boys and gave them big, big hugs. S8 said that Duncan is in heaven now with Angus, which is something I said to W earlier and S8 must obviously have been parroting what W had said. Not to mind, but it does show he at least is trying to keep it from getting him down.
I thank everyone for their prayers -- it looks like they were heard.
The thing that bothers me is that W and MIL have already been talking to the boys about getting a cat as a replacement. W is also trying to pass it off as their idea, but I ain't buying. I don't care if W really does think that a cat could ever replace our dog. All I know is that it is waaay too soon to even be talking about another pet. It's only the next day after the tragedy, for goodness' sake.
I have two co-workers with West Highland Terriers. My boss has two of them in fact. They're kissing cousins to Scotties (in fact they used to be the same darn breed up until the 19th century) and they too have such sweet and loyal personalities. So I had a fleeting thought about looking into another dog -- but again it is way too soon. Perhaps in time, once the boys are old enough to help take care of a pet themselves.
Thanks for asking.
Good morning NC-
I'm so sorry that I haven't kept up with your sitch lately. I did see that you dropped by my thread. Thank you!
I'm sorry also about the loss of your pet. I've gone through that as a child and as an adult and it's not easy either way. Our dog is living a very peaceful life with my parents. We miss her terribly. She and D4 are joined at the hip whenever we go to visit. Our dog even sleeps next to whatever bed D4 is sleeping in. I pray for strength the day that we lose her and I have to explain it to D4.
I promise I'll get back to keeping up with you. I've missed everyone, but it's only my fault, as I haven't been here lately.
Take care and have a good day.
Hugs- SueS
Thanks, Sue. I really appreciate it.
NC,
I am so sorry to read about all the heartache you have gone through over the last few days.
Losing a pet is losing a member of the family; it is so very painful.
((((((HUGS)))))))
Thanks, Saffie,
It's going to hurt at least a little for a very long while. They're your best friend, companion and a family member. They love us to a degree that we can only hope another human can -- unconditionally.
But I know we'll be okay. Like the death of my M, we just need to give this time -- we will heal.
I go and pick up Duncan's ashes this evening. That's not going to be very easy. I still haven't had much of a chance to talk with my S's on this. Maybe "talk" is not the right word, but just to feel them out, to commiserate and let them know that I know how what they're going through, and that we're going to be okay...
(It occurred to me just now that we, W and I, still haven't really sat them down about the death of the M either. As usual W allowed it to be glossed over.)
On another note:
W called me at work yesterday. She apologized for bothering me at work (although that never stopped her before, so that confused me) and asked whether it would be better to leave me a voicemail and then we could discuss what she had in mind later. Unsure of what she was portending, I just said okay.
Well, I received 3 voicemails from her thereafter -- three parts of one message since she exceeded the message duration limits allowed by my cellular service. As usual, she was running her latest "plan" (machinations) by me, as if to only give me a token voice in these matters. She wants to change S4's preschool yet again. And she wants to change S8 so he no longer requires a before and after school program, and he can start riding the bus to school instead. And more importantly, she wants to bring her mother (MIL) in to assist her in this.
W's rationale doesn't square. She says that she wants to scale back her work to just four days per week, freeing her to have Fridays off to spend (purportedly) with S4. And she wants to move S4 back to a part-time preschool schedule. She claims that the current preschool is not doing a good enough job to help S4 with his academic progress -- which is complete news to me, especially since the very reason she moved him to this current school was for the specific reason they were better at that task. I don't doubt she misses the time she might could spend with our S's, hours every day that working full-time (or near full-time) takes away.
But then she plans on having MIL fill in for her and to take on a lot of the childcare. That galls me.
And she wants to pay MIL about $500 per month in compensation to do so. That kills me.
Now I wonder at her trying to broach this subject with me now, since she's obviously been in discussion with MIL and her "friends" for a couple of months now. I think she's progressed along with her latest scheme and suddenly realized that she's on thin ice. The last time she rejuggled the boys' lives she failed to consult with me before proceeding, and that doesn't look good in a court of law. Now she is hoping to get some form of tacit approval from me, by giving to me the illusion of having a say in this major set of decisions.
Here's my line of thought on this:
1.) W is going to have to get it into her head that I am a co-equal parent of our S's here. She cannot unilaterally make these decisions, nor try to force my acquiescence by starting a juggernaut ahead of my foreknowledge. If she doesn't see fit to seek my approval before proceeding with a course of action affecting our S's, then I will not be inclined to support her.
2.) I do not want to be footing the bill for W to shirk her duties in providing for her S's. Being head of a household and the chief bread-winner thereof is not the bed of roses she had made it out to be, or so she's now realizing (and she thought my long hours away from my family were by choice; now she knows better.) But if she wants the reputation and the status for being a single-parent supermom, then she needs to quit leaning on me to do so. I know full well W wants to increase or maintain the current child support payment at the same time, effectively making me a slave to her reduced schedule, a schedule for her sole convenience. This is an added sore-point with me because it was this loose, malleable schedule she wants to return to that gave her the freedom to be away from her family and to cheat on me in the first place. Frakk that. Once we're no longer married, why should I still be so obligated?
3.) I really do not want her mother in my children's lives, at all, let alone as their regular daily caregiver. MIL is about as toxic and self-serving as a person can be, and I do not approve of her soulless value-system. She has injured me and my marriage beyond comprehension, and continues to do so. I can forgive and let by-gones be by-gones, but not where this would be constantly brought to bear on the upbringing of my two little boys. MIL hates men, for crying out loud, especially men who do not knuckle under her warped demands of being subservient beneath her. She is unfit to raise any child, let alone my S's. She has continually butted heads with my eight-year-old in the past and I have no doubts it would resume again. To this I say no.
4.) W wants to pay MIL for her help, as a daycare provider. I smell a shady little plan being hatched (not the first bit of dishonesty, if not downright fraud, they have cooked up together, mind you), one to try to declare MIL as a valid provider, for legal reasons. If I have no interest in funding W's selfish desire for a life of convenience, I will certainly NOT subsidize that venomous MIL to ruin my S's childhoods. I will repeat: I don't even want her around, let alone raising my sons or putting my money in her pocket to do so. No, I am more inclined to pay added child support just to keep that hag out of our day-to-day lives.
5.) The pretense of all this is all so W can spend more time with our S's. That is incongruent with getting her mother to help out, since most of the added time would go to MIL. What this tells me is that W wants as little of the parental dirty work as she can get away with, while supposedly increasing the "quality time" with our S's. She gets to be "fun mom" without the increased baggage of being a real parent, all the while getting to pat herself on the back for doing such a "fine job". She wants all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages of being a parent in a broken family -- a family she broke. She doesn't want to live with the consequences of her actions and her choices. She's dreaming.
I think she needs to deal with the aftermath of her own reckless decisions. She made this bed, now she can lie in it.
6.) W has been periodically rejiggering the arrangements between us to suit her whims. Every time she does this forces me to have to go back to the current Separation Agreement proposal and rework it. This imparts yet more delay to her achieving this stepping stone towards her acquiring her precious D. If there are delays and more delays, which she continually complains about, W can only blame herself.
W hasn't yet followed up. (I think it's because she got all pissy later last evening for my not being available to take our S's to get haircuts.)
Just as well. I'm in no hurry to engage her in this insane line of dialog. All of what she's proposing is a loser for me, especially, and for my S's.
As if we're not suffering enough for one week, W decides to broach this now.
Send a one word response...."NO".
P.S. "Frakk"....do I detect a BattleStar Galactica fan??
That's crazy. Why should you pay for her new schedule? Just ridiculous! It makes no sense. Either she has the kids and pays for care when she isn't there, or you have the kids! Is MIL making money to watch the boys? I can understand that *maybe* if she was being paid to do that, but I still believe that your wife should shoulder that bill, not you.
It irks me that you are notified only after decisions are made. She would be furious if you did that to her!!!
do I detect a BattleStar Galactica fan??
You do indeed -- not a big one but one who was looking for a good euphemism for use in mixed company.
That's crazy. Why should you pay for her new schedule?
The cold hard fact is that the state guidelines for calculating child support (CS) in this state is like that in many other states. It factors in comparative incomes as well as the number of overnights with each parent. A nice little socialistic system whereby the party who works less and earns less gets to hit the other parent up for more CS -- and the less they work the more they can take out of the hide of the working spouse. Oh, and all in the "name of the children" -- yeah,
right.
So if W works fewer hours under her proposed work schedule (instead of taking on her fair share as a would-be independent adult), she can turn around and offset the loss in her income by taking the additional amount out of me. Go figure. W wants to claim her total independence from me, but then she still wants to be dependent on me. That just means she wants me, NCB, to just continue being her hard-working breadwinner without her reciprocating on the original marital vows. That is
slavery, folks.
Believe me, I would
never let my children want for anything, ever, but this has suddenly made me so much more sympathetic to those accused of being deadbeat dads -- such that I would now have to second guess anyone's charges against someone along those lines. At one time I would have said, "hang the SOB." But I see now the story might just be more complicated than what one would have initially thought.
Is MIL making money to watch the boys? I can understand that *maybe* if she was being paid to do that, but I still believe that your wife should shoulder that bill, not you.
W is proposing that she pay $500 or so to MIL each month for picking up our sons in the afternoons and keeping them until W gets off work. It really doesn't matter if W claims the money is coming out of her own pocket, if I am continuing to pay the same or more amount of CS even under this scenario, I must conclude that not only am I subsidizing W's payments to MIL, but I am being gouged at the same time. W says she's trying to realize a cost savings under this new set of changes, but where are
my cost savings, huh?!?
If MIL needs extra income now that she's retired to afford this new apartment in the same complex as W, that should
not be any of my concern. Even were I to have remained married to W this would be a very bad deal.
The cold hard fact is that the state guidelines for calculating child support (CS) in this state is like that in many other states. It factors in comparative incomes as well as the number of overnights with each parent. A nice little socialistic system whereby the party who works less and earns less gets to hit the other parent up for more CS -- and the less they work the more they can take out of the hide of the working spouse. Oh, and all in the "name of the children" -- yeah, right.
NC-Most states have a "potential earnings" clause meaning the other spouse can quit working if they want, but they use the potential earnings to calculate CS. So if she quits working as much, you could possibly use that.
As far as the MIL goes, if that goes through, tell your wife that you need your MIL's social security number so you can do a 10-99 form for taxes. Tell her that you may run for political office some day and you don't want to get in trouble for not claiming nanny expenses.
As far as the MIL goes, if that goes through, tell your wife that you need your MIL's social security number so you can do a 10-99 form for taxes. Tell her that you may run for political office some day and you don't want to get in trouble for not claiming nanny expenses
Ok.
That is classic. I love it!
Yep, don't even tolerate paying MIL under the table! She might 'get away' with this, but you can make it difficult!
NC-Most states have a "potential earnings" clause meaning the other spouse can quit working if they want, but they use the potential earnings to calculate CS. So if she quits working as much, you could possibly use that.
I believe that's how W's lawyer is calculating my salary, as an average based on what I made in 2008 -- even though I was demoted in May and am not going to see that salary again for a looong time, not from
this employer anyways. So where am I supposed to come up with an amount based on a manager's salary, in this economy especially? Am I to somehow pull this amount by magic out of my arse?
As far as the MIL goes, if that goes through, tell your wife that you need your MIL's social security number so you can do a 10-99 form for taxes. Tell her that you may run for political office some day and you don't want to get in trouble for not claiming nanny expenses.
I like how you think.
Yep, don't even tolerate paying MIL under the table! She might 'get away' with this, but you can make it difficult!
I agree. There may not be anything I can do from a legal standpoint, but I can make their plans just that much more difficult to achieve. I am not going to make it easy for them.
as far as her changing her mind to suit her needs, put your foot down and dont' allow anymore waffling, nail down the visitation rights soon (do not forget every holiday, spring/winder vacation, floating holidays, etc, right down EVERYthing)
I'm assuming you'll have joint custody, that entitles you to decide who cares for your children.
Hi, Cat,
Yes, I am trying to cover all the bases where possible.
And I had another argument with W just this afternoon over her latest scheme. She left me a voicemail at work earlier and so I called her back (big mistake) thinking she wanted to ask me about picking up the kids. Instead she wanted to grill me about agreeing with her plans, saying she had to give notice to S4's current daycare provider by this Monday or else we'd be liable for the February fees. I let her have her say before I responded. I flat out told her I did not appreciate her only including me in her planning in the very 11th hour -- and, in response to why I did not like her plans themselves, told her that I do not approve of her mother as the caregiver to our S's.
W's response was some hogwash claiming she had been keeping me informed of her initial and progressing line of thinking on this since November, and that she had let me know that long ago that her mother was moving back to town. I didn't mince words when I told her that was bullsh*t. She also said that her mother loves our S's and is a good and loving person to be taking care of them. W said that their grandmother, a blood relative, was far preferable to some stranger. I argued against the notion that MIL was a proper grandmother, and was unfit for raising children.
W responded by saying how mean and hateful I supposedly am, simply because I won't agree with and give into her, and because I oppose her anti-family, anti-husband mother. I told her, no, I was concerned for the well-being of our children, and while I have come to dislike (not hate) MIL, my opposition to her was on the grounds of what I consider to be best for S8 and S4.
But W continued to go back to her old bag of now hackneyed arguments, using this disagreement as another example of why our marriage died. It got even uglier from that point. W devolved back to her same old spiel about how I killed her love for me and that I think that I am God because I cannot even consider that I might be wrong about something. (I countered by saying that she must think she is God since -- whenever she pronounces that I stopped loving her way back when -- she presumes to know me and my heart better than I do myself.)
That got me on a line of argument questioning her prior stance about Truth. I asked her did she believe that truth was subjective or was thre an absolute truth. In prior "conversations" W has parroted words similar to her mother, that Truth is relative and there can be many truths. Maybe she recognized the danger for her answer because she tried to change the subject. If she had upheld her prior notions about the supposed subjectivity of reality, I was prepared to lower the boom on her with regards to God and absolute truth, The Truth. If she were to deny that, I would have let her know how far astray from her own professed faith she had wandered. Moral relativism is the folly that got us where we are today in this sad, sad world.
But instead she set herself back on track by recounting how I failed her and our marriage. The same old accusations, the same old pretense at being a victim in all this. I interjected a rebuttal to say, "I made mistakes, yes, but none of that warranted your actions to betray me and to commit adultery." But she ignored me and continued her diatribe. Impatient with her, I began to say back to her, "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah..." as she continued her rant. And that was enough to anger her into hanging up on me.
Go ahead, bring on the 2x4's. I feel I am getting to the point where I just don't give a damn anymore. If the truth has to be butchered to save my marriage, then I no longer think it's worth it. No, complete candor is not always best, and prudence dictates otherwise. But If we can't be intellectually honest with each other, then we can never achieve the intimacy required for a healthy M anyway. And if the truth hurts, as it always tends to, enough that W wants the M ended, then I rather be alone in faith of the Truth, than miserable in a M of lies and deceit.
I can't help it. That's just how the cut of my jib is.
Yep, don't even tolerate paying MIL under the table! She might 'get away' with this, but you can make it difficult!
I agree. There may not be anything I can do from a legal standpoint, but I can make their plans just that much more difficult to achieve. I am not going to make it easy for them.
I just don't get how she thinks she can work part-time and $500 in daycare also. Most part-time jobs pay less than $500 a month where I live, way less when you figure out taxes and deductions. I would lose probably $100 a month if I did that. What would be the point of that??? Karen
No, complete candor is not always best, and prudence dictates otherwise. But If we can't be intellectually honest with each other, then we can never achieve the intimacy required for a healthy M anyway. And if the truth hurts, as it always tends to, enough that W wants the M ended, then I rather be alone in faith of the Truth, than miserable in a M of lies and deceit.
I can't help it. That's just how the cut of my jib is.
Well, I do think truth is good, but I kind of do believe there are different truths. I mean your W's perceptions of your marriage will be different than your perception or your children's perceptions. Everyone's experiences and life kind of makes them have different views of the same events I think.
I just think what is the point of going into that with your W? It never is resolved in a satisfying way. Whether you are married or not, it seems best to try to have a workable, as cooperative R as possible with your W. And that kind of arguing you both do isn't furthering that goal I don't think. I think instead of her catching you off-guard like she likes to do, maybe tell her something like you're thinking about it and will get back to her in a day or 2 or week or whatever. Then email her back so you can choose your words more thoughtfully.
Anytime she starts being negative about you and getting into R talk or what's wrong with you type of stuff, tell her you don't want to get into that with her and say you have to leave or hang up or whatever. Those kind of arguments don't help your marriage or your R with her even if you don't continue the marriage I think. Karen
I understand what you're saying, Karen. I do realize that no one human being has a monopoly on truth. We are all blind mice scrambling around trying to figure out this maze called Life. Some of us may have a better take on the lay of reality, but we all fall short of God's perspective. Only He knows the full Truth, the Absolute Truth that I speak of.
You see, Truth is not subjective, as the secular world would have us believe -- only our individual perceptions of truth are subjective. And that is merely because we are limited in our ability to grasp it entirely. That does not mean there is no Absolute Truth. Our task, as God's children, is to seek out this Absolute Truth, to complete as much of that puzzle as we can within the span of our short lives.
The "worldly" view, which my W now adheres to, would have us try to settle for the falsehoods we each try to pass off to ourselves as a legitimate "truth", co-equal to The Truth. That is just self-deception and folly.
As for having the argument with W, just about the only reason now that I will engage her in such an exchange is when it concerns the well-being and the interests of our two S's. I try my level best to never discuss our failed M with her since I see how pointless that really is. And maybe arguing with her over the children is pointless as well, but I (now) refuse to acquiesce to her domineering attitude. After months and years now of trying to be reasonable with her, I see that has gotten me nothing but contempt from her. I am to the point where I don't care about offending her anymore if I believe she's in the wrong where our S's interests lie.
W's under the arrogant misconception that as their mother she can do no harm where they are concerned. And she is now, for the third time in less than a year's time, proceeding with changing up their daycare without even prior consultation with me, their father, let alone getting my consent. Just this very morning she left a voicemail on my work phone to tell me she was proceeding with giving the current daycare provider notice of her intended changes -- she did not ask me for my consent.
W's under the arrogant misconception that as their mother she can do no harm where they are concerned. And she is now, for the third time in less than a year's time, proceeding with changing up their daycare without even prior consultation with me, their father, let alone getting my consent. Just this very morning she left a voicemail on my work phone to tell me she was proceeding with giving the current daycare provider notice of her intended changes -- she did not ask me for my consent.
How do your sons feel about that? You know AS kids, continuity and stability are very important, and it seems your W is kind of doing the opposite. If you go into court, maybe your L could use that in some way; anybody that knows anything about AS will know that's not right. Have you talked to your W about the consistency and stability they need and that 3 changes in less than a year is just too much for them? My dad did that kind of stuff in the years after my mom died, my brother and I would go to 3 schools in a year for about 3 yrs., and it was hard on us. (After he got more together, he apparently regretted it, and wouldn't move around at all after that b/c he realized it wasn't right btw. I think my dad kind of lost it and was messed-up and if your W is like that, maybe she shouldn't be making major decisions without your input...I mean even if she was 100% together, your input should be given in terms of schooling and things like that.
I see your W as being a lot like my H. They are both button-pushers and after knowing us so well, not hard to figure out what they are. When she says stuff like "you think you're God" and comments like you killed the marriage, she is obviously trying to make you mad! My H had a period where he was doing that all the time too. I think they have to be experiencing some guilt over their actions, so when they get us to fight I guess it helps for a time, makes them feel they are justified. My personal take is I refuse to let him push my buttons (well not very often) b/c I refuse to make this easy for H. I want him to experience the full guilt (well as much as he's capable of feeling anyway). Karen
How do your sons feel about that?
Karen, my W had already been working on propagandizing this to my two S's before she even bothered to talk to me about it. When I picked them up Friday evening, the first words out of S4's mouth -- I kid you not -- was that he loved MIL and thought she would take good care of him. Even S8 was saying how he thought riding the bus again would be fun.
I can't tell you how utterly sand-bagged I felt after hearing the brain-washing of my two boys like that. W had warned
me before about involving our S's in decisions that were not theirs to make, and I had agreed, but this represented a double-standard and such a breach of trust and fairness. I guess I shouldn't be surprised what a lieing, cheating adulterer will do, but this was once a person I had placed so much trust in.
S8 has apparently forgotten (so too his mother) of the difficulty he had had when riding the bus in prior years. Everyone seems to be forgetting how our AS son was taken advantage of by the older students -- a situation that W had used as an excuse to take him off the bus in the first place.
And W had used the excuse that S4 needed preschool 5-days per week (instead of just two) in order to be able to learn better with his peers. Seems that reasoning too has been reversed.
No, W has not shown any respect for my position in anything concerning our S's and our family for a very long time now. Her disregard for my rights, duties and obligations as our S's father go beyond the pale.
The thing is that if I were to refuse to let her "push my buttons" on this, she would take that as tacit consent for her to continue to dictate all aspects of parenting our S's. This is one exception to the rule that I
have to express my passion about, or else risk being bulldozed over. I can find no middle ground in this, unfortunately.
If this weren't about my kids, I would have walked away and said
frakk it all. But my sons are now the last real thing in this life that matters that much to me. And I am tired of playing the "nice guy" for her. So I am now coming to the conclusion that it might be time I take the kid gloves off and sick my "Alpha Dog" on her.
The question I have kept asking myself in the past and throughout every incident in this great ordeal was, "Is
this the hill I want to die on?"
And on this hill, I must conclude, yes, it is. This is a hill that does matter that much to me.
S8 has apparently forgotten (so too his mother) of the difficulty he had had when riding the bus in prior years. Everyone seems to be forgetting how our AS son was taken advantage of by the older students -- a situation that W had used as an excuse to take him off the bus in the first place.
And W had used the excuse that S4 needed preschool 5-days per week (instead of just two) in order to be able to learn better with his peers. Seems that reasoning too has been reversed.
I think your W really makes decisions based on what will be best for her and not your sons, and in that, she is consistent.
To me button-pushing is the kind of comments your W likes to make to you which seem an obvious attempt to make you react, the comments like you think you're god or you killed the marriage or there you go again or things like that. I don't see the school issue as button-pushing, but a serious issue that needs to be dealt with. Those other kind of comments I think you should just ignore or leave when she starts making them, I agree with the schooling you will have to deal with that. When you've discussed them attending 3 schools in less than a year, she doesn't see that as a problem? Have you thought about family C or something? maybe that would be good b/c helping your W to realize you both need input on that and how harmful it is, etc. I don't think a good C would agree with that kind of parenting. Karen
(((((((nc))))))
She is truly amazing. It seems all she ever wants is you to just agree with her arraignments with no thought to maybe that your also their parent and have every right to be involved in the decisions that effect them.
unbelievable...
I think your W really makes decisions based on what will be best for her and not your sons, and in that, she is consistent
I fully agree with this. She bends and molds the truth, the reasons, to fit whatever she is selling to you, or trying to sell to you. Amazing she would put her needs first, but it really seems that she does.
Notice how that because I am not automatically acquiescing to her decisions and giving into her demands, but actually raising objections to her wonderful plans, she considers me "hateful" and "biased". Because I won't give into even her most heinous and unreasonable of demands, I am somehow cutting her down and treating her badly. And because I have come to distrust both her and her mother's motives, nevermind their continual and unrepentant treachery, then I am somehow the toxic one among us. Mean, horrible NC -- shame on him for not going along with our nefarious schemes!
I think I've said it before: my W is DB-proof. She has raised the bar so high that I could never win her back. Her terms are complete and unconditional surrender, and were I to meet those demands I might as well give up my life, my freedom and my soul. And what kind of person would that make me? Certainly not a person worth being valued or loved by any right-minded person in the first place.
Nc,
Would you really want her back at this juncture? She has become it seems the worst part of herself, and has no problem blaming you for her woes in life.
this is not someone to spend the rest of your life with, not at all.
She is not worthy of your love at this point.
Would you really want her back at this juncture?
The person she is
now?
No. I don't want
that person.
I admit that I do still love the woman she
was. There is a still a part of me that truly and deeply still loves that person W once was, or that she was at least partially so (I have not figured out to what degree.) I loved the part of her that was like the paternal side of her family, especially her grandmother. And I can't / don't want to believe she absolutely deluded me for these entire 18 years.
But this last year and a half (two years almost) have taken their toll. So much damage, so much anguish, so much pain. She has been extremely successful in finally convincing me that she despises me now, that there is no real love there. She chooses to love only herself now, if she is even capable of truly loving
anyone that is.
In that she has
become her mother, the one person she had always said she never
ever wanted to be like. And that is
not the person with whom I had bargained to spend the rest of my life with either.
No, Tal, I would not take
her back.
On the other hand, as a Christian, I realize that miracles do happen, especially where we give things over to God. Perhaps W might someday have her own Saul-on-the-road-to-Damascus experience and have a fundamental change in heart. Only then might we have some semblance of a real chance at patching things up and starting over. It would require that -- completely starting over. And as a Christian, I know that if God were to manage to turn her hardened heart and she were to repent of her sins against us I would be
obligated to give her a chance, for the sake of my S's and our family -- at least while our marriage is still in effect. Even so there would be no guarantees either of us could overcome all that hurt that has needlessly transpired, even were we to completely forgive and trust one another. Although miracles do happen, yes.
But I can look to W's mother for precedence and realize how extremely slim the odds of that ever happening are. MIL has made it her personal industry blaming her past three husbands for all her own ills. I can easily expect W will do the same in her own case. Taking everything into consideration and given all that has happened, there is very little chance at this point that W would ever develop the humility and strength of character to recount her hateful trumped-up prejudices against me. I just no longer believe it is within her anymore. I can muse about the possibility all I want, but now I realize how remote the chances really are. And I think she is smart enough to realize she won't ever be pulling the wool over my eyes again like she did, so she knows I would see right through any further falsehoods and deceptions on her part.
nc~
Miracles do happen and it would be wonderful if one happend for you. All we have is faith, and be there for our kids, you already do both, that is all you can do.
Your a good man, with a good heart.
I totally hear you NC, I feel the *same way* about stbx. Yes, miracles do happen but stbx is in such a hole that it would take a monumental miracle for him to climb out of it, and he just doesnt have the spine to admit he's in a hole and only God can help him, it truly is a shame how the good man he once was is gone. I dont' wish him ill, but I won't hold any hope anymore not are waiting for miracles, I did that for so long that if it happens good, if it doesn't I'll be far along my new road of healing that it won't matter if it never did.
Have a good weekend)))
Yes, miracles do happen but stbx is in such a hole that it would take a monumental miracle for him to climb out of it, and he just doesnt have the spine to admit he's in a hole and only God can help him, it truly is a shame how the good man he once was is gone. I dont' wish him ill, but I won't hold any hope anymore not are waiting for miracles, I did that for so long that if it happens good, if it doesn't I'll be far along my new road of healing that it won't matter if it never did.
Cat, that is exactly how I'm feeling too. I pray for H every night still, but do that for him and my kids' sake, not for the M anymore. I think it's better to go on with your life, and sometimes I'm thinking that we will prob. be better off in many ways (than our WAS). Karen
Hey, NC, I think I saw you on yoyo's thread or somewhere, but wanted to pop in and say hi. I'm almost done with another self-help book I had gotten a while ago and almost didn't read it b/c I'm not in the same place anymore, but it's called The Solo Partner by Phil Deluca. The subtitle is repairing your relationship on your own, and I'm kind of beyond that point, but I think it is a good read b/c I think I may always have these kind of issues in the future; maybe not with a S but with a boss or relative or whatever, or in other future Rs. Also, I think I will always have to deal with H in my life for the next decade or so just as a co-parent so good for that reason. One of the things he talks about that I think I'm "guilty" of is further these arguments when I defend myself or explain stuff or whatever, he says that just keeps the argument going, or gives it extra fire or whatever, even though of course not my intent. And just the importance of stating your position and not defending it or reacting to the blaming and attacking and stuff. He feels if you do that long enough, it does get better so I'm going to try my best and see! Hope you're having a good week!!!
Karen
Tal, Cat, Karen, thanks.
Karen, the book sounds interesting -- looking to see if its on Audible.
I've been so busy the last week, getting entries ready for the Pinewood Derby this weekend (with our scout pack.) S8's car is done -- already entered last night. He did a great job designing his first car. Since this is his very first time, I had to do the bulk of the work (not quite in the spirit of the competition), but he did help quite a lot. He can take pride in his handiwork. And I warned him that from now on he will have to do the bulk of the work himself -- next year will be a different story.
Tomorrow, we'll enter our second car (for parent and/or siblings) for the "Open" class race. S4 wanted the batmobile for his car, and that's what we're doing. He hasn't yet seen the final paint job, so he's going to freak out when he sees how it turned out.
W is being so evil. She is still proceeding with her plans to upset our S's lives yet again. I continue to raise my objection but she won't listen.
She left me (another) nasty voicemail today. She had apparently talked to S4's preschool teacher and had become incensed at what I had supposedly said to the teachers and staff. I had merely responded to their inquiries about what was going on in S4's life, what with his mother changing things up like this. Each asked me whether we, his family, were separated -- whereas up to this point I've been as discreet as possible, now that they are asking me point-blank about our situation, I am being honest with them. I said yes, W and I are separated; yes, W is changing up our S's daycare; and no, I was not included in these decisions. I pretty much left it at that, refraining from saying too much. I did ask S4's primary teacher if we should not discuss this in a meeting together since S4 was standing nearby when we were skirting around the subject.
W's nasty-gram basically upbraided me for (in her opinion) trying to involve our S's teachers in our dispute and for maligning both W and her mother in front of these people. She said a whole lot of hateful, insane things to me. Total lies and complete misrepresentations. All because I oppose her continual efforts to shut me out of making decisions in our S's lives.
As if to underscore that, my atty. forwarded me an email sent from W's atty. W is lying through her teeth now by claiming that not only had she tried to keep me informed of all these major decisions in our sons lives but also that I never seemed to really care about it any way -- and so for me to raise my objections now was purely out of spite and hatefulness towards W and her mother. The letter went on to state that W is considering "not agreeing to joint physical custody" and forcing them to seek litigation against me if an agreement cannot be reached.
Sounds like posturing to me.
I've responded to my atty. and we've scheduled to meet tomorrow.
I don't know how much more of this I can take. I now want W to file her frakking divorce and get the bleep out of my life. I love her, yes, but W has so obviously lost her mind. I can see that now, and to what degree. I cannot and will not spend the rest of my days with someone so insanely nasty and hateful -- it would be far too damaging to both me and my S's. I thought I could weather any storm in hope that I'd find my beloved at the end of it all, but I am now convinced -- she succeeded in finally convincing me -- that my W is dead and gone, never to return.
The only thing that stays my hand and keeps me from walking away forever is my love and commitments to my S's.
sheesh! what a waste of time/money, how sad her behavior is so childish and contraproductive, I pray that you are able to get joint custody, I dont see any way of her to prove you can't have jc, good luck)) , you are in the thick of it but it wont' be like this forever, just stay objective and dont' respond to her nastiness.
Did you respond to your W's nasty vm? I think you prob. shouldn't, I'm thinking right now that you should just ignore the crazy stuff and respond positively whenever she is vaguely polite or civil.
If her vms or emails are really crazy sounding, have you saved them and given any to your L? I know my H saves every email of mine for some reason. B/c of that I try not to email him with anything that I wouldn't mind a judge and lawyers seeing, b/c I guess they might.
I feel like my H is kind of gone wherever it is they go and doesn't seem to be likely to reappear. I am moving on, as much as a married person can do, just focusing on me and the kids and trying to get healthy. If my H ever regained his sanity or returned or whatever, I guess I could worry about it then, but kind of a waste of energy to worry about it at this point. I do know that we can feel good about trying our best to be good, loving spouses and parents, something our WAS don't have. Karen
Hello, all,
I've had such a good and bad week -- one with High's and Low's. Over all I think I am good, but I feel so drained.
W and I have been having continual skirmishes about childcare and especially about her flagrant disregard for my role as our sons' father. Oh, she can talk all she wants about how she never (overtly) denigrates me in front of our children or their third-party caregivers, but her actions belie her contempt and cold-hearted animosity for me. And she continues to lie to her lawyer and others in claiming I am not a concerned enough parent to be involved in making decisions for our sons.
I talked to my attorney of Friday. She told me what she had been hearing from W's lawyer. She also gave me a point by point analysis of W's counter-proposal in drafting a separation agreement (SA) between us -- specifically noting which clauses that we had put in that they had decided to cut out.
I gave my L more facts and details to use in our next draft of the SA. She heard my perspective on the diatribe that W and her L were spewing, and said she would address some of these again with W's L. She also mentioned to me that she thought it might be a good idea that we suggest to them utilizing a parenting coordinator, for the times like this where we can't seem to see eye-to-eye regarding the raising of our children. My L said she would mention this to W's L.
Karen, I didn't respond to W's voicemail, but I did respond later to her follow-up message sent via email: This weekend W sent me an email that re-iterated her warped view of how she sees me, stating that I have only now become concerned with the changing of S8 and S4's daycare just for spite -- out of hatred for her and her mother. She again threatened me directly that she would seek litigation against me if I did not sign her agreement (basically asking me to capitulate to her terms). However it was also seemed to me her L had said something to her about how not even informing the father of her children was not going to look good for her. That sparked a number of emails where she I feel she only "entertained" my objections but still refused to give them any weight -- continuing to change the story to suit her latest ends. She lies and distorts with such ease now.
I would like to believe that a parenting coordinator would magically solve these disputes. That would be nice. But when W won't even concede that with few exceptions a child's father has every right to lead and make decisions for his child as the mother does, then W will make up whatever rationale she needs to ignore even a third party "referee". I seriously doubt she would comply in good faith.
---
My brother contacted me Friday evening. The litter-mate to our late dog, Duncan, just passed away too. She, Paisley was her name, seemed to be in very good health when we saw her just about a month ago now. But my brother said it was cancer and she had to be put to sleep. That was so fast, so sudden. It was like a timer went off in their bodies and then they're gone. I have not told my S's yet that Duncan's sister is now gone too.
---
I have been working for the last couple of weeks helping S8 design, build and ready his entry in our cub scout pack's annual Pinewood Derby (PWD). S8 is an absolute car nut -- he loves vehicles of all sorts, anything that "goes" or has wheels is his greatest interest. So when we joined the scouts, the derby was the one major event he was so very charged up for.
I let him design the car entirely, only helping him to clean up some of the details to stay within the pack's PWD rules. He helped cut the body out (as much as he could before he got tired from the Coping saw), sand and paint the car. I did most of the shaping (using power tools) and distributed the added weights to bring it up to the maximum allowed overall weight. He applied the decals and final personalizing touches.
Well, the surprising thing is that he actually won First Place, among 36 other Wolf and Bear cub scout entrants! I could see that in all four of his heats he did very well. And his final heat set a track record. But there were so many well-designed and very fast cars out there that I was shocked when it was announced he had made the top spot. I had estimated he was in the top ten by his various times, but this was amazing. Not bad for his first try.
I am so proud of him. I told him that he was going to design all his own cars, from now on. Never again will I question his design decisions (I had certainly let him have it his way, but that didn't stop me from making suggestions.) In fact, I told W I was going to frame his initial design drawing, as crude as it was, because S8 could end up being an automotive design engineer if he puts his mind to it.
I had built a second car for the "Open" class competition. Open class was for the fathers, siblings and other family members to compete and get their own fill of the experience, without interfering with the scout's efforts. I decided that the diplomatic solution would be to build a car that S4 could call his own. S4, when asked, what he wanted for a vehicle to enter, being a big Batman fan, said "the Batmobile". He wanted it to look like one of the batmobiles he has seen in the animated cartoons. So that's what we did. In the end this car didn't win any awards for speed, but it did garner us a trophy for for "Most Unique Design" in the Open Class. S4 was so charged up to have won his first ever trophy of his own.
S8 is now beside himself because now his car gets to compete in the district race. He wants so badly to play with his creation, but now he can't because it needs to be kept safe until the next race. Oh well...
NC, Congrats to your boys!!! That's amazing that he did so well. It does sound like he has a possible future in car design or engineering or something like that! And the Batmobile car sounds very cool, too.
Sorry to hear about Paisley. The one consolation is I guess when you tell your boys you can tell them they are together in heaven now, happy and healthy, which I truly believe.
I'm sorry to hear about your wife still acting like that. I have to believe some of that comes from guilt or something. I know it's so hard not to react when they spew and attack, but I'm going to try to do that. Try to email as much as possible and just ignore the attacking ones. I've been doing that for a week now, and so far so good, so we'll see I guess.
The one thing about the 3rd party referee is that you never know. My H sometimes is so 100% stubborn about stuff, but is much more willing to listen to an objective person, b/c I think he thinks kind of like your wife that we're just motivated by spite or evil or whatever thought processes they have. Sometimes someone else maybe they listen to better, b/c I think sometimes they don't listen to us that well? Plus, my H always I think wants to look like a good, reasonable nice guy to others (not to me of course) so to do that he acts more agreeable to maybe. So you never know, although yeah, it might not work out. ((((NC)))) Karen
OH NC...that is so cool that your son got 1st place. Kudos to your brilliant little guy. I love the story about the batmobile as well. I know that when I went NC with my STBXH, things became so much more peaceful for me and my STBXH was more willing to compromise on certain things. Maybe having the referee is not such a bad thing. I am hoping for the best for you....just know YOU were the one who has done the work of self discovery and growth, not your WAW. This will say so much to your children in your future R with them. Stay strong, it will all work out in the end.
wow MC, how awesome about the boys! I'd love to see the cars :0) sounds like a great time for the kids.
At first I didnt' think stbx would take s10's C's suggestions seriously, but I was tremendously surprised when he did (specially the part about s10 staying with me for 2wks, he was adamant s10 *had* to come every time). Give the parenting coordinator a chance, if only a few things could be solved this way then good, something is better than nothing and she might actually behave like a human being if only for appearance's sake.
nocode, what a wonderful weekend with your boys. Moments of proudness for all of you! I love that you encouraged S7 to continue on with his plans for next year, all on his own.
About W. Well, we don't need to comment about that. Keep your chin up and your focus on being the father your boys know and love.