WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 5

[confusedinpa]

Well another one got locked

Here are the links to the last 4:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1702221&page=4&fpart=14

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1712747&page=5&fpart=13

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1719092&page=2&fpart=15

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1726284&page=1&fpart=15

This is the middle of week 9.

Many wild swings from her mood/attitude, not sure of what to make of it other than possible confusion, which can be a good thing.

The week started off rough as she was really pushing about a custody agreement and working out the logistics of how to separate on Sat and Sun.

Monday we went to counseling and we started to get into venting about her anger

Tuesday she needed some space so I just did my own thing for me and the boys

[confusedinpa]

"She was complaining/venting about her neck hurting (it had been bothering her for some time). My blackberry was in my locker so I didn't email her back until an hour later. I emailed to express that I cared and was concerned - but didn't offer any solutions (i.e. massage, etc.) like I had in the past. She responded in an email right away complaining/venting more about her neck."

Sure is putting allot of emphases on her neck, I am sorry but it sounds kind of like a set up.....setting you up for going out.

Is the friend with the daughter a male?
Where was the friend while she was getting her massage.... It could just be as she says but for some reason this just does not sound right.
Goes to work in a sexy outfit comes up with a reason to stay out
comes home relaxed and happy ...and she did not want sex?

Keep your eyes open man...

I appreciate the concern and the thought had crossed my mind. The reality is that if that's what she's doing, I can't control her. She has already filed for divorce and wants to move out.

I'm not concerned that she did not want sex as it is a bad time of the month for her. Frankly, after we had sex on each Thursday for the last 2 weeks, she had major swings to the negative in her attitude/behaviors. I would rather forgo the sex for now, just to keep building positive moments to drive the negative/hurt further into the distant memory.

I forget if the friend is a male or not, but the daugher is in her late 20's/early 30's. I'm relatively certain the friend is a female though.

As far as the outfit, she had worn it to work before. I thought it was sexy - it was just a nice white shirt with a low, for her, neck line (she wore a tank top underneath it) with dress pants, but I thought she looked really nice in it. She had for the past several weeks, since it's been so cold, just wearing turtlenecks or a sweater. I think most people would have just called it a nice outfit. I thought she looked sexy

In the past, I had driven myself crazy paranoid whenever she wanted to go out with the girls or do anything by herself. So I smothered her and made her feel trapped. My lack of self-esteem made me insecure of letting her do anything by herself.

I don't know for sure if there is something going on outside of our marriage. That's had been everyone's reaction that know about my situation. My wife and I talked about that at length during my panic. She thought I was cheating on her. I thought she had found someone else. We never talked about it though. We have now. I do believe that she hadn't and I know I haven't.

Right now, the only thing I can do is control what I do. Apparently, that's all that I could ever do. I was fooling myself in the past when I thought I could control her.

So I am living my life to enjoy it to its fullest. I want her in it, but I know I dont need her in it.

[confusedinpa]

It was a good day yesterday.

I had a good session with my therapist to work through some more of my issues. I know we probably spent more time talking about my wife that I should have. I used it to get my therapists/our counselor's perspective on how our counseling session had went on Monday. I wanted to make sure I had picked up the important things that had come out of there so I can keep my 180 in line.

I left work a little early to go to the gym. It was a good thing since my wife wound up emailing me while I was at the gym. She was complaining/venting about her neck hurting (it had been bothering her for some time). My blackberry was in my locker so I didn't email her back until an hour later. I emailed to express that I cared and was concerned - but didn't offer any solutions (i.e. massage, etc.) like I had in the past. She responded in an email right away complaining/venting more about her neck.

Since I had started driving at that point, I called her - I'm trying to follow DB'ing but didn't want to wreck my truck. She vented/complained some more about her neck and how she couldn't get a chiropractor appointment. I empathized. I did bring up how I had thought her neck/back was bothering her when she laid down in front of me Tuesday nite when I was reading to the kids that I thought she had wanted a backrub. I told her since she didn't ask/say anything, I wasn't sure so I kept reading with my kids.

She said that she needed something at that time and I could have given her a backrub if I wanted to. I told her next time she should just ask. I didn't get into the whole mind reading thing - thought that was best to be done in person. She said she could really use one tonite.

She then said that she was trying to leave work so she would call me right back. I told her she could if she wanted to or we could just talk at home.

She did call me to say that she really needed some relief. Since her friend's daughter was a massuese, she asked if it was alright to call her to find out if she could work out her neck (I'm pretty good massaging back/legs/feet/arms, but lousy with necks). She said that when she dropped off our youngest and she could start dinner if I needed her to. I told her to just go take care of her neck and I'll worry about dinner for me and the boys.

I got home with my oldest and helped him get his homework done. She pulled into the garage as I was taking something out into the garage. She stepped out of the car and was wearing an outfit that I thought looked very hot. I let out a wow. She just smiled and gave me a hug and kiss on the check. I got our youngest out of her car and we went inside.

When we were inside, I told her she looked really nice in that outfit (it's part of my 180 as she felt I never noticed nor gave her any compliments). I asked if it was a new outfit. She said she had worn it a few times before but she said I never seemed to notice or at least say anything. She said she had worn it when we went down to South Carolina for my friend's wedding last year.

That was something she had raised as an issue in the past - where we went down to the wedding and she wore very sexy outfits. She felt that I hadn't paid any attention to her nor cared whether she was there or not. I didn't argue that as soon as we had checked into the hotel room we were intimate, but figure that wasn't going to get me anywhere.

I told her I had noticed when she wore it to the wedding, but in the past I would just say wow and smile in my head. I know that really didn't do her any good as she didn't know it. But that was then, this is now.

She asked again if I needed her to start dinner for me and the boys. I told her that I'll take care of it and would most likely take the boys to a pizza shop that me and the boys liked. She had gotten sick of it as, I didn't realize it, we went there almost every Friday for 3-4 years. We hadn't gone back there with her since she dropped the bomb. Me and the boys like it because the owner really is kids friendly and treats us well. Another bonus is that the girls that work there look like they could work at Hooters, and dress like it, especially during the summer (maybe that's why she didn't like it).

I might have crossed the line when I asked how long the massage would take. She said it would be between 1 to 1.5 hours. She seemed a little urked by it, but whatever. I just wanted to know so I could plan my evening.

Me and the boys had a great dinner, the owner and girls that work there were really glad to see us again. We got home and I gave the kids a bath. We skipped reading as each of the boys wanted to watch a different video (as would be expected with a 4 year difference between the boys). I played with each individually while the other watched their show.

I put them to bed a little after 8:30. My 7 year old's comment about how I am acting differently was still weighing on me so I started to feel a little sad/anxious. I wound up doing some stuff not related to our situation and I wound up relaxing watching one of my shows that she didn't like (The Unit).

She didn't get home till almost 9:30. I did get a little anxious around 9, but re-read some of my thread which got me relaxed/focused again. When she got home, I was doing something in the kitchen. She smiled at me and I asked how did it go. She said her neck felt so much better and her whole body was relaxed.

She mentioned that she had wished that we had chairs to sit outside with as she thought the fresh air felt good tonite. I thought it was a little windy, but told her that I had pulled our patio chairs out of the garage last weekend. She asked if I wanted to sit out on the patio for a bit. I told her sure and asked if she wanted a drink. I put a sweatshirt on, grabbed a couple of beers for us and set up the chairs outside.

She came out and we talked about her massage for a little while until the wind picked up too much. She told me about how the massage was in the girl's house and the massage table was setup up in one of the bedrooms. She told me that during the massage all she had on was her thong. We joked about her being in another girl's bedroom essentially naked. I didn't really press this line of joking as she had raised in the past that it made her feel uncomfortable/cheap when I talked about her underwear (or lack there of).

It got cold and we decided to go inside. We sat on the love seat to finish our beer. I noticed she was still cold so I asked her if she wanted me to warm her up. She shifted so she could lean against me as I hugged her. It was nice as we talked and drank our beer. After a few minutes, she wound up resting her knee on top my mine as she was sitting indian style.

Her foot was also resting against mine. I caressed her foot/leg lightly. She moved it slightly so I took that as a cue to stop. She told me that she was just shifting/get more comfortable and it was ok to keep caressing her feet/leg as it felt good. She wound up resting her legs on my lap as we talked. I did stop after a few bit as I didn't want it to be too much.

She told me that her mom can watch the kids this weekend so we could go out. Very confusing considering what she said last weekend.... I asked her if she could wear the outfit that she had on today. She smiled and said she would if that's what I wanted. I just smiled and said yes.

We talked until it was after 10:30 - very late for her as she normally goes to bed at 9:30 - and I could tell she was getting tired. I got up and said it looked like she was getting tired and thought she wanted to go to bed. She agreed and went to the kitchen to get a glass of water. As she was about to go upstairs, we hugged and kissed on the check again.

We got ready for bed together in our bathroom. She said good nite as she went to the spare bedroom.

I stayed up to watch television until about 11:30 and went to bed.

It was a good nite.

[confusedinpa]

Stuck's advice/insight was at the tail end of my locked thread. I thought it were pretty important to keep in front for me as well as helping others.

You know you could save alot of money if you really paid attention to what all of us had said here. But you keep repeating the same mistakes.

Stop with all the relationship talks once and for all. Who would want to stay in a marriage when only negatives get brought up?

Here's what you need to do. When your W brings up the thought that she doesn't/can't believe the changes are real, blah blah blah, then just shrug your shoulders and say "that's up to you. I know their real." and then just walk off. You don't have to keep justifying it to her.

Second, when she brings up the thought that you should have known to do this and that. Just tell her you're not a mind reader any more than she is. If something's bothering her, tell you. She'll bring up how you never did so in the past, then stop her right there. Tell her that was the past and this is now. All she has to do is tell you and you understand much more now. Then stop. You don't have to justify anymore than that.

I had to give my W the mindreading talk and after that, she stopped griping about stuff. She knows she has to tell me when something is bothering her and I am always available to her.

You don't have to beat her over the head with it.

Again, all these issues are her. Stop appeasing her and following her around like a dog looking for her to throw you a bone. There's your 2x4. Stop all physical stuff on your part, even hugs, because in all you posts you keep initiating and you're driving her away. Think of yourself as like a James Bond character where women come to you rather than the other way around. Build up your confidence.

She's acting conflicted right now, but I can see she's rapidly making her mind towards the negative because you just won't stop. Even watching the Fireproof video, if she came off saying it was cruel for you two to watch it, kindly remind her that she wanted to see it too and that you are not the cause of her anger and frustration. The past is.

She is in total midlife crisis mode with her wild mood swings and irritability. You just have to ride them out as best you can.

With the verbal jiu-jitsu, you have to deflect her blaming you and reflect the issues back on her. When she keeps saying "I can't believe" or "You should have..." Deflect those comments with "I understand you can't believe...but I believe it" or "I should have before and that was before. I know better now." Then walk away. The key is to stop before she starts going off on the same rant she's been spewing for the past 9 weeks.

Oh and BTW, 9 weeks is a drop in the bucket. People have been on here for 5 years still going through this and I just hit a year. How do we get through it? Patience and prayer. Lots and lots of prayer. Sometimes jokingly I'd pray that my W wasn't going to be anything stupid today, but those light moments are what keeps you going day after day.

Oh and in terms of custody of your kids, I would split them 50/50. YOU can be just as caring a parent as she is and even more so because of what you've learned through all this. She is the one who is the unfit parent right now.

I still go for my original suggestion that you should separate households. You would have to anyway. Give her some real space and split the kids 50/50 between you. Show her you've got balls and that you are every bit the man you're claiming to be.

She'll complain saying that you're so cruel, etc. But hey, she started this. It's time to start doing things on your terms not hers.

Here's a link to a MLC article I found to be interesting.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/index.php?term=mid-life&print=1
I even sent this to my W even though they suggest not to, but she didn't complain about it, so it usually means she's read it and is fine with it. Your W is not at that stage. She still believes you and everyone else is the cause of her problems and not her. It's time you not let her MLC selfishness run your life. Live how you want to live your life. That's how it was before you got married. You never had to answer to anyone. Show her that man again. Then she'll have no choice but to look within. And that's what you want her to do.

I told my W that instead of constantly complaining about what she doesn't want, try figuring out what it is you do want. Your W will say she wants her freedom and to be out of the marriage. Stop her and ask her again what do you want and ask her to be specific. Does she want to go back to school, get a new job, new boyfriend, etc. I even recommended to my W that she get a journal and write down her thoughts and goals. Again, have her look within.

[confusedinpa]

Spellfire's triangle analgy of the nice guy/macho guy/integrated guy was pretty powerful. I wanted to be able to keep it in front for me as well as others.

Please read what stuck wrote two times, it's good advice. Try to take it to heart.

Now a little visualization exercise. Think of a triangle:

* On the bottom left point is the nice guy. The nice guy depends on others for their emotional well-being. He is hurt by anything bad said about him. He is needy, clingy, emotionally enmeshed with his partner, apologizes constantly, is indecisive and constantly looking to others to make decisions, big and small. This guy lets others call the shots, and then feels victimized. He blames others for this, since it couldn't possibly be his fault, right?

* On the bottom right is the macho man. This guy despises the wuss, and (being completely out of touch) attempts to compensate by being a hard ass. He sees himself as being a realist, but in fact he is just a stubborn jerk. When he takes a hit, he hits back. His defenses are up, he lets nobody in (not even his closest loved ones) because he doesn't want the world to see that deep down he is actually scared and lacks self esteem.

* At the top of the triangle is the integrated man. This guy is brimming with confidence and self esteem and therefore is able to let people in without fear that they will see something they don't like. When attacked, the assault just bounces off, not because his defenses are up, but because he is unaffected and uninfluenced by the negativity of others. People don't see the integrated man as a "tough guy" or stubborn, because he feels no need to defend himself, or hit back. He is compassionate of others, because he makes sure his own emotional needs are well met. He is no push over either. He sets boundaries, and enforces them via his actions. Men in this state are not easily affected by the emotions of those around him. They are however, fully aware of their feelings and allow themselves to feel and express what they feel. Integrated men know what they want, and are decisive by nature. They are able to accept criticism with an open mind and ear, since they feel no need to defend themself for being themself.

The point of this exercise is to show that it's not "Nice Guy vs. Tough Guy". Both of those states are two sides of the same coin, IF your self esteem is low. Your goal is to become a BETTER MAN. Draw a bar beside the triangle. This bar represents self-esteem/self-awareness/PMA. How would you rate yourself on a scale of 1-10 right now?

Tip: Gradually get rid of all the books and videos and everything she thinks you are using to try to save the M (just stash em somewhere and read them only when she's not around). Get some books about other hobbies and dig into those instead when she is around. Meanwhile, keep GAL and working on your PMA, and "whatever" attitude. She thinks the changes are "right from the playbook", so it is time to get rid of the perceived playbooks and show her the changes are real.

[LR1]

Confused,

Sounds like you did have a good night. I know you are getting mixed signals but at least you are getting some attention by her at times. I wish my W would show me some affection like you are seeing! Keep it up and keep the PMA!

LonelyRzr

[confusedinpa]

What I'm trying to keep in front of me is that I am choosing to have a good day/nite. Regardless of how my wife acts/behaves, I am deciding to still enjoy my time. If she wants to enjoy it with me, then great, if not, I will still enjoy my moments.

Like theroadback had tried to highlight, I could have chose to be anxious/suspicious for the entire time my wife was out getting get her neck worked on. If I went that route, I would have chosen to have a bad nite and would have had a bad attitude that my wife would have seen when she came home (no matter how much I would have tried to hide it). I am sure she would not have been thinking about me or my negative/painful emotions while she was out.

Instead, I chose to feel compassion for my wife as I know her neck and back has been bothering her. I know I can help her back with a massage, but I am comfortable with my "short comings" that I can not help her neck with a massage.

I decided to take the time to go someplace that my boys and I enjoy to go to eat. Then I decided to play with them in and enjoy the time with them until it was time for them to go to bed.

After they went to bed, my wife wasn't home yet. Again, I could have chose to be anxious/hurt that she wasn't home yet. Instead I chose to do things for me to make me happy. It would not have made me happy being anxious/hurt that my wife wasn't home yet.

Instead I watched a show that I wanted to watch and did things that made me feel good about myself (i.e. putting some dishes away, reading, etc.).

So what I'm coming to the realization is that my wife doesn't hold the key to my happiness, I do. I want my wife to participate in my happiness and if she doesn't I may be disappointed, but I can still be happy.

I know it sounds like motherhood and apple pie type of stuff. If I read this 3 weeks ago I wouldn't have believed it. Nor if you told me even 2 weeks ago that I would be writting something like this in my situation without my wife deciding to stop the divorce or give the relationship another try, I would have said you were crazy.

Now I see that saving the relationship/marriage involves saving myself first. I can't do anything while I'm wallowing in the muck. I must survive and thrive first.

[spellfire]

What a huge turnaround man. It is like seeing a new person writing here. Whatever you are doing, keep doing it!

[confusedinpa]

What a huge turnaround man. It is like seeing a new person writing here. Whatever you are doing, keep doing it!

Thanks Spellfire.

I know I couldn't have made it this far without people like you on this forum. I know I'm not done yet, there is still a lot of work to do and it's only day 1 into this phase of my turnaround. I am still on a mission of saving my marriage, but I will be doing it on solid footing - me.

So do I move up to orange belt yet?

[spellfire]

Prove you can maintain this PMA for a week and I will promote you to it lol.