WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 2

[confusedinpa]

Make her "environment" comfortable and safe for her to return. She'll start poking around soon enough.

Think of it like a stray cat. At first it'll be afraid of its new environment, but you leave out food, make it comfortable and don't grab or make any sudden moves, then it'll come closer. Keep doing this and it may decide to stay.

I really like the stray cat strategy. I guess it's a tough balance to go between giving her space and making sure I'm still filling her love buckets (touch, quality time and verbal are her top, service and gifts are very low). The touch part is hardest for me. In the past she wanted me to hug/touch and kiss her and I didn't. Now that's all I want to do and she doesn't. Its so painful

I just want to give us a chance to keep our family together. Is that too much to ask from her?

[confusedinpa]

No, the more you pressure and pursue her, the more you confirm and justify for her the bad feelings she has right now. If you leave her alone, the bad feelings will subside and chances are the good memories will come back.

The S is not ideal, because more often than not it leads to D. But if you cannot stop pursuing her, if you cannot GAL with her around you, if you cannot develop a PMA living in the same house with her, it may be the best for you right now. You need to save yourself first, and maybe as a by-product you save your M as well.

You come across very anxious, and I am sure your W feels that, too. And it pushes her away. You will fix nothing fast. It is a marathon, not a sprint. You will have 2 years to fix yourself. The faster you get there, the more time it leaves for your W to recognize these changes and for both of you to get back together.

To be very blunt, I think your MC sessions together may be counterproductive, unless you have a really good counselor like MWD describes them. I did not believe it either at first, but I feel very lucky that my W backed out of our first session last minute and we both have been going to IC. In fact, we have not had a single MC session together, but I think we have come a long way since then. We are now ready to go to Retrouvaille together, and there might be a real chance of putting our M back together.

AN

I'm sure she feels my anxiety/pain. That is one thing, even in the past 5 weeks, she can really read me.

I'm working on getting a life and maintaining a positive mental attitude when she's around me. I've been working on not being as in her face and not following her around (which I did the first 2 weeks).

I'm also very torn on the counseling sessions. I just don't know how to go with it. I like the idea of Retrouvaille you had suggested to me before, but one of the things that she got irked about during my 2 weeks of panic/anxiety, I kept suggesting different things. Read this book or that book. See this counselor. Do the phone counseling. I even suggested flying to Colorado for a 2 day intensive with Michelle. She told me to stop and slow down. She was feeling overwhelmed. She said see how it goes with the therapist/counselor that we're seeing now.

I liked to think I'm not forcing her to go, as she had said that she knows that she doesn't need to go (legally as we had seen a counselor most of last year), but would go if I wanted her to go. I told her that I would want her to go if she thinks it would help us save the marriage. We went to the first session together. At the end of it, we scheduled the second one and I had left it to her to decide if she wanted to go again. That's how we scheduled the third as well. I told her if she didn't go, I would still go by myself. I'm sure she feels "pressured" to go even though I don't talk about it in between the sessions. She knows I want her to go.

She says she sees the changes and is very proud of me (her exact words) that I'm able to make the changes. She's says she's struggling with seeing past the person who hurt her so badly and wanting me as a husband. It makes me so sad. I know all I can do is keep working on me and hope she changes her mind.

Thanks for your input

[confusedinpa]

I just got a really anxious moment. I wonder when she was telling me that Monday during dinner before counseling that she can't see past the person who hurt her so badly and want him as her husband was her way of telling me that she gave up?!?!?!

Prior to Monday, she had started to say that she still hadn't found a reason to change her mind about the divorce. I thought she gave up then. She had said that as long as she's in the house, I need to accept that as the fact that she is still trying. She told me that a couple of weeks ago during my panic mode when I kept checking her temperature everyday/hour. Hope that's still true

I feel like I'm go into panic mode. I know I have an appointment to see my therapist in a couple of hours. Now I'm really getting worried.

I did call my wife this morning after my dentist appointment as I was frustrated that I thought they were going to a procedure today, but all they did was evaluate (which they did last week) to say I needed the procedure they recommended last week. Now it's scheduled for next week.

We chatted for a little bit and then I mentioned that I had this time blocked out on my calender and asked if she wanted to get together for lunch at a resturant she wanted to try. She said she may be able to leave between 11:30 and 12 but would call and let me know. Maybe that's why I'm anxious as its 11:45 and I haven't heard from her.

Why am I so stupid that I got myself into this mess.....

[spellfire]

Take a deep breath and remember, nothing has changed except you going over her words and over-analyzing them.

She is in confused WAW mode right now. That means you don't believe what she is saying. She is saying she doesn't want to proceed. How aggressively is she pursuing this by her actions? If she is arranging somewhere else to live in between packing up her stuff, then you can allow yourself some worry.

Turn your focus back on yourself and stop worrying about what she is doing or saying.

To give her space, do what you normally do, but ease up on the needing physical contact all the time. As I said before, touch her in passing, kiss her goodnight or goodbye and leave it at that. She is responding to the changes (heck, she even said she is proud of you, do you know how many people here would die to hear that from their WAS), but you must not go off the rails. Keep focused on you. Maybe do what I did, write out a detailed plan and stick to it regardless of what you feel.

Hang in there, you can do this. As you grow stronger this will get slightly easier, but you must be ready and willing to grow for that to happen.

You gotta understand, panic and anxiety harm your progress. It's a bit like crossing rickety bridge. Looking down just increases your chances of getting scared and slipping. Keep your eyes up (on you) and stop looking down (her).

Not-so-subtle hint: The reoccurring theme here is that you must grow in order to give the relationship the boost it needs to survive.

[AnotherNightmare]

CIP,

There is not much to add to what SF wrote. You must stop pursuing her. Calling her for a lunch appointment is pursuing.

I did not know that you are bombarding her with suggestions on what to do (read that book, go to Retro, go to MC, vacation weekends etc etc). Stop that right now!

Instead of watching TV with her, go out with some friends and give her space. If you are really interested in that show, watch it in a different room. I am serious, you have to stop pursuing her. It will lead to absolutely nothing and will take the focus off of you. Let her come to you!

Do not try to fix her, fix yourself! Work on getting your anxiety under control. At a minimum, do not act on it!

AN

[MrBond]

Why don't your go ahead and be a little more pro-active with this and just tell her that you think the separation would be best for her right now and work on that. Tell her that you care for her and love her and that you don't want her to feel pressured in any way which is why you're doing it. She'll see that as a huge sacrifice from you and appreciate it.

Obviously all the holding on and having her in the house isn't working. Cheeseless tunnel. Open the cage door and let her free. If she wants to come back, she will. It really sounds like you have a good chance of that happening since she is in doubt.

A separation is much better than a D and it'll give you both a chance to GAL. It will probably be the hardest thing you've ever done but like they say, if you love something set it free.

My W told me flat out she wanted a D and that she was afraid to be around me, etc. almost a year ago. Now she's home in the same bed and getting comfortable. While I'm trying to slowly increase her comfort zone so we can be intimate again, I believe the S really helped her think about what she really wanted in life.

[song]

CIP,

I'm in a similar sitch, although further along. I read book after book on saving marriages, went through a program that stressed reconnecting with W through regular calls, touch, date night, etc. I pursued and pursued until W finally moved out in October to get some space. What did I do? Pursued some more.

Thankfully I found this site near the end of last year, and have been DBing since early January. It's tough, really tough, probably the hardest challenge I've ever faced. But I can say from experience that the others speak the truth when they say stop pursuing.

I wish I found this site before W moved out. Please don't make the same mistakes I made.

[confusedinpa]

Thanks for talking me off the ledge.

We did wind up going for lunch. It was ok as we talked and laughed a little

When we left we hugged and had a quick kiss on the lips - she puckered

During lunch I mentioned that I had looked at the back of the Fireproof video her mom gave us a couple of weeks ago. She didn't want to see it back then. I hadn't looked at it till last nite. I said I was going to watch it. She said she would watch it with me. I said that would be nice if she wanted to.

She also said that she had asked her mom to watch the kids Monday so she could come to counseling again

Then she sent me a few text messages later today. I didn't answer till after the third as I was tied up. Then she called me on the way home.

But when she got home, it was WAW again

Very confusing signals. I remain hopeful.

[MrBond]

All very good signs. You're still doing too much with the physical stuff. I mean, come on, just the fact that you noticed that she puckered doesn't mean she's ready to fall back into the R.

Just make a note of it and not read too much into it. When you keep doing that, if something bad were to happen you are going to crash and burn hard.

Just watching out for you.

[confusedinpa]

I did not know that you are bombarding her with suggestions on what to do (read that book, go to Retro, go to MC, vacation weekends etc etc). Stop that right now!

Instead of watching TV with her, go out with some friends and give her space. If you are really interested in that show, watch it in a different room. I am serious, you have to stop pursuing her. It will lead to absolutely nothing and will take the focus off of you. Let her come to you!

AN,

I had bombarded her with all the suggestions during the first 2 weeks she had told me she filed for divorce. We've had 3 sessions together with the new therapist. So in the last 2.5 weeks, I hadn't brought up any new suggestions. I had really liked your Retro suggestion, but couldn't figure out how to bring it up in time for the session coming up this weekend (I'm in the Philly suburbs). I'm really curious what you think of if when you come back.

My therapist yesterday told me that I need to express my feelings to her, don't ask for anything, but express how I'm hurt and frustrated that the she can't find it in her heart to forgive and give our marriage another chance.

I'm torn on that one, as that seems like a "high pressure" type of statement. Any thoughts?

Thanks