WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 4

[confusedinpa]

Well another one got locked

Here are the links to the last 3:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1702221&page=4&fpart=14

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1712747&page=5&fpart=13

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1719092&page=2&fpart=15

This is the start of week 8. The recap from last week is that we had a custody hearing on Tuesday. It was very stressful on both of us. We didn't get an agreement and the next meeting is on March 30th. On the way back (we drove together), she did break down and talk about how she can't find a reason to change her mind, but feels she will be trying for the rest of her life. Very confusing as then she talks about how divorced couples can get back together and remarried.

Thursday was her B'day. I joined her for happy hour for about 45 minutes then left to take care of the kids. She got back at 11:00 PM and she wound up in bed together. She even said I love you. Very promising, so I thought.

On Friday she's back in full WAW mode, the only mention she had was that she had love bites on her chest. She said she was surprised that even though she had 5 martinis (in 6.5 hours), she didn't feel like she was buzzed or drunk. She didn't express any regrets or talk about it like it was a mistake or just an alcohol induced nite. Really don't know how to make of it.

Sat nite, we're both stressed about the kids being sick (we were both up to 3:00 AM cleaning up puke on both nites). Major bummer is we were suppose to go out that nite as the kids were going to stay over her mom's house.

Instead, that's where she starts stressing about how she feels that since she can't find a reason after almost 2 months, there's no chance and she is trying to figure out how to move out. I didn't fall apart but I was speechless. I couldn't validate or acknowledge.

I just hope that its just a test or stress or something other than she really gave up trying to find a reason to change her mind. Not only is this a big change from Thurs nite, but last Tues coming back from the custody hearing she said she would never stop trying. That's when she threw out how its possible for divorced people to get back together and remarry. I'm trying not to key my emotions to all her words/whims

I'm about a third of the way through the nice guy book. Pretty scary book. I'm trying to digest how to proceed

This morning she seemed like moderate WAW mode. Our youngest is still really sick so that's taking a lot of time and patience/stress. When she came down, I didn't try to give her a good morning hug or kiss as my youngest was resting on my lap. Probably for the best though

She wound up making us a very nice breakfast and she's been in "clean" mode ever since. We cleaned the fridge and kitchen. I only helped when she asked (trying to reverse the nice guy stuff) but did help with an upbeat and positive attitude

I worked on a couple more of my honey do list projects (spackle and priming) while she cleaned

I may have another issue looming. We're suppose to get 8 to 14 inches of snow tomorrow so our counseling session may get cancelled. I'm fighting the urge to talk to her about what she said last nite. I know I shouldn't.

I need to stay with my 180.

Its hard and it would be so much easier to give up. I really don't understand how someone can fall so out of love. Its particularly annoying as on her facebook "notes" she talks about how her dream is love and how her favorite place to be is in the arms of someone she loves (I know because she tags me on the notes). Yet she goes into her pity party of having baggage and never being happy. She knows that I am know trying to show her how I love her (I didn't when I was in my depression) and see's the changes, but still can't get past the hurt.

So confusing and annoying

[MrBond]

That's why you need to stop analyzing things and just go with the flow. She's driving you nuts and you're letting her. Detach.

I still believe that you should end all contact with her as soon as possible to let her REALLY think on things. If she has a tough time, so what? That's what'll happen when you're divorced anyway.

Again she keeps saying she doesn't know how she can forgive you. For God's sake man she's like a broken record caught in an endless loop of blaming you. Well you know what? She's got flaws too, but she glosses over them compared to how much YOU hurt her.

Just ignore her. Not being a dick about things, but just let her do her own thing and just talk strictly business. Think of her as not even a casual acquaintance. She's going down and dragging you along with her.

The best way to show her your love is to let her go her own way before the D actually goes through.

When my W and I separated, I think it was the greatest thing that could've happened because it stopped her complaining and blaming me. She had no one else to point the finger at but herself.

[confusedinpa]

Again she keeps saying she doesn't know how she can forgive you. For God's sake man she's like a broken record caught in an endless loop of blaming you. Well you know what? She's got flaws too, but she glosses over them compared to how much YOU hurt her.

That's actually part of the irony/confusion. She said a couple of weeks ago that she does forgive me. It just that she doesn't know how to stop feeling the negative emotions (hurt/anger/pain) everytime she sees me. I'm thinking this will just take time for it to fade as she gets more confidence/comfortable that my 180 is real.

That's why I'm torn about detaching and/or ignoring her. The principle issue she had with me is that the over the past years, I ignored her and didn't make her feel like she was an important person in my life - essentially detached and ignoring her.

How detaching/ignoring her fit with my 180? Or is this really part of the last resort technique?

She has said as recently as last week, that she sees the changes but always follows with a question/comment about how long it will last. So if I detach/ignore her now, doesn't that just reinforce the "I knew it couldn't last" attitude? She had also commented about how she thinks I made the changes just until she drops the divorce. I keep telling her that I am doing them for me so that I don't fall back into a depression/detached mindset again.

I had been reading the No More Mr. Nice Guy book. I've been trying to put myself first but not sure if I did the right thing.

We had piles of laundry all over the family room due to both kids throwing up over the last 2 nites. As part of my 180, I had been helping with the laundry (without being asked). She even remarked about how surprised she was as she said she doesn't ever remember me helping with the laundry. Well last nite, she was working on a very large pile of what looked like bedding stuff. I asked her if she needed help carrying the bedding stuff up. She said not yet. There was a project I wanted to do for me so I went into my den to work on it. When I came out, most of the pile was folded and she seemed a little annoyed that I hadn't helped.

I offered to help her finish, but she commented - now you're going to help, when it's almost done? I applogized and told her I had thought it was mostly bedding stuff that we were going to use to make the kids bed with so I didn't realize there was so much clothes to be folded. She didn't say much, but a few moments later, she appologized for making it seem like the laundry was a big deal.

I did wind up folding/helping with the next load that came out though.

I've started to shift my approach now and wait for her to come to me to chat/talk. It's hard as since I've gotten knocked out of my depression, I've really noticed how good she looks. Fortunately for me, she is a talker, so she does engage me in conversation fairly often (unless she's focused on a chore, i.e. cooking, cleaning, work, etc.)

We did wind up getting about 5 inches of snow overnite. We're suppose to get another 1 to 3 inches during the day. I really don't want to miss the counseling session tonite, but I suspect that it will either be canceled or she won't want to go due to the weather (she hinted at that yesterday).

When we went to bed though, we did talk/joke very lightly. Shorter than normal as we were both tired from being up so much with the kids getting sick for the last 2 nites. So we were both apprehensive of going through another round of it last nite.

So starts week 8 of this madness.

What are everyone's thoughts of detaching/ignoring her when it may seem like I'm abandoing my 180?

[AnotherNightmare]

CIP,

I may sound like a broken record, but the only way to save your M goes through healing yourself. When I read your posts, you are still focused on your W, what she does, when she is in WAW mode, when she is not, what her plans are, how many weeks she has been doing this to you etc etc.

Stop it right now! I posted a quote from the "Love without hurt" book (and I strongly recommend to you to read that):

"When you die and go to judgment, they won't ask you what your wife did."

You say that it has been 8 weeks. Think hard about what has been working. It does not sound like a lot has been going in your favor. She still wants a D, wants to move out, is pushing forward with the custody agreement, her feelings have not changed a bit.

And I think it is because you have not really changed. You still think it is her, and deep in your heart you blame her for being a WAW. I am sure you have those self-talks asking yourself why she is doing this to you. "Yes, I hurt her, but ... " The "but" is the problem.

If you really want to change, you have to let go of anything like that. It is very hard, extremely hard, but unless you can do it and become a truly compassionate husband, your M does not stand a real chance.

AN

[confusedinpa]

My wife just asked me about cancelling tonite's session. She said she's exhausted from the weekend. She's also worried with her mom watching the kids today (school is closed, but they would have been home sick anyway), that it would be too much for her for one day (14+ hours).

I know I can't force her to go but I really want to talk to the counselor/my therapist about last week. It was such a roller coaster week and I need some help to make sense of it all. I am tempted to go by myself tonite, but suspect that my wife will be a little urked by it as I won't be there to help put the kids to bed. Then again, perhaps that can be a good thing....

Any thoughts?

[confusedinpa]

CIP,

I may sound like a broken record, but the only way to save your M goes through healing yourself.

And I think it is because you have not really changed. You still think it is her, and deep in your heart you blame her for being a WAW. I am sure you have those self-talks asking yourself why she is doing this to you. "Yes, I hurt her, but ... " The "but" is the problem.

AN

I guess that's the confusing part for me.

I know I hurt her and know what I did/didn't do that cause her all the pain and hurt.

I've been working with my therapist/our marriage counselor to understand why I behaved that way. My therapist feels that the depression drove my behavior that caused this rift between my wife and I. One thing that I do agree with my wife is that just because there's a name to it, it doesn't excuse what happened.

I'm not sure what you mean by "healing myself", but I've spent a lot of time over the last 7 weeks reading, talking with friends and my therapist/our counselor to understand what drove me into this mode where my emotions were supressed. Since they were suppressed, I couldn't open myself to be vulnerable with anyone. I do have the book "Love without hurt". Once I get done with No More Mr. Nice Guy, I was going to start reading it.

You are right. I do blame my wife for not being able to move past the hurt/anger that she feels. I do know that I don't know how to help her with that. I do feel resentment to her for that.

What I do try to do is forgive her as I know that I had pushed her to the point where she just gave up. This is my ownership of the problem.

Now I've been working on my 180, where she feels now that we've moved from just roommates out of convience (with no connection/interaction) to roommates that are friends. This is probably the only positive that I see.

I still have a hard time of being honest with my feelings with her because I'm afraid of making her angry. Most of my feelings are related to the relationship, since I'm trying not to talk about the relationship with her, I don't share them.

I have shared with her that I feel frustrated with myself that I didn't get it earlier, when she was still fighting to save the marriage/relationship. She validated and acknowledged when I shared that with her.

I guess in these ramblings, it's pretty clear that I really don't know what you mean by "heal yourself". Any help/insight will be greatly appreciated

[AnotherNightmare]

Explaining "healing yourself" is relatively simple, doing it is the hardest work.

Healing yourself simply means to stop blaming (yourself, others, or the circumstances). Blame makes you feel powerless. It suggests you feel unhappy, because you cannot do anything about what is happening to you. But just saying "I forgive her" or "I forgive myself" does not do it.

Think about how you felt when your kids were born and you held them in your arm for the first time. If you are able to feel that way when your W tells you she wants a D, then you are "healed". In other words, you are capable of feeling happy, content, loved no matter what other people do, then you have made it, and I am sure that is when your W realizes there is in fact a new you that loves her and that she can love again.

If I read your previous post, you are unhappy because of the snow today, because you think your W uses it as an excuse to bail out of the MC session. You are blaming the weather. Do you realize how ridiculous that is? If your thought had been "Oh great! I get to play with the kids in the snow" or "Let me turn up the heat for my W, so she does not feel cold", that would be compassionate.

I know it is hard. I am going through that myself right now. I can be compassionate in a quiet moment, but it is not automatic yet. That is where I need to go and stay for the rest of my life.

AN

[confusedinpa]

If your thought had been "Oh great! I get to play with the kids in the snow" or "Let me turn up the heat for my W, so she does not feel cold", that would be compassionate.

I know it is hard. I am going through that myself right now. I can be compassionate in a quiet moment, but it is not automatic yet. That is where I need to go and stay for the rest of my life.

AN

I think I understand what you mean by healing yourself. It seems very similar to keeping/maintaining a positive/optimistic mental attitude.

Regardless of what people say or things that happen, be able to be able to see yourself surviving/thriving through it all.

I hadn't thought about it before, but you are right that I was blaming the weather for giving my wife an excuse for skipping on the marriage counseling session tonite. The compasionate thought would have been "Great! I know it has been an extremely stressful weekend dealing with the sick kids so this will give us some downtime"

Another point that you are right on is that I haven't changed with respect to being selfish. I want to keep beating on this problem relentlessly to "fix it" as quickly as possible. The structured problem solving part of me (I'm a Six Sigma Black Belt) put the "root cause" on my wife - she can't love me again unless she lets go of the hurt/anger. So to "help" her let go of the anger, I was trying to help her understand why things happen. In my mind, I've changed so I will do my best so that the behaviors do not reoccur. So now we need to figure out how she will just "get over it". I guess the reality is that we need to find a reason for her to love me again. Or what?

Also, what would the compassionate thing be in that case? I'm really struggling with that one.

[spellfire]

I recommend reading the entire NMMNG book before trying to implement anything from it. Just try to understand the concepts contained within for now. Breaking free from being a NG doesn't necessarily mean not helping around the house, or doing things for your W.

Just read it with the goal of trying to understand your need to be in control for now.

[AnotherNightmare]

I guess the reality is that we need to find a reason for her to love me again. Or what?

No, you two do not need to do anything. You yourself need to feel consistently happy, appreciated, loved etc again like you used to when you married her. What she does or find or how she feels does not play any role in this.

If in the end she has the patience and stays with you, she may realize that she still loves you. But that is totally up to her. She needs to heal, too, let go of her hurt and resentments, but you cannot help her with that. If you try to help her, she will feel guilty, accused, powerless, which will nurture those resentments she already has. That is also the reason why I said MC is most likely counterproductive. I guess the only way you can help her with that is to be compassionate, to give her what she is asking for, which is probably space and time alone.

I know you feel helpless and powerless. I am a project manager myself. There is nothing I cannot get done. But it does not work here. You have to accept that this is the way it is and do not blame her or your own inadequacy for it. And again, telling yourself that you are happy will probably help, but it has become automatic, it has to be your first thought when you start thinking about it or when you wake up in the morning. If it is not, you still have way to go on your way to happiness.