Well another one got locked
Here are the links to the last 5:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1702221&page=4&fpart=14http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1712747&page=5&fpart=13http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1719092&page=2&fpart=15http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1726284&page=1&fpart=15http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1732394&page=1&fpart=23http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1741715&page=1&fpart=23Well another one got locked - we're at a point where she is moving out in 1 week.
Long conversation last nite
She started with custody. She agreed to Thur, Fri and Sat for me. She would then have Sun, Mon and Tues. We would alternate Weds. She would pick up when they woke up on Sun. I told her I would sleep on it but it seemed reasonable. I wouldn't really have a Fri or Sat nite out, but that's not my priority right now. I can always change that if that's what I want.
Ironically I was going to agree to alternating weekly starting Sun, with twice a week visitation. I've got to decide what is better
She also talked about how she felt it would be better if we were flexible and worked together in the context of the parenting agreement. I told her it made sense
Also, I got her to agree to support of $1200/month. I feel a little bad about that but I need to start protecting myself at some point. I just have to get her to sign it before she talks to her lawyer.
She then started talking about all the stuff that she needs to do in order to get to her apt next weekend. I told her this is not what I want but it is something that she wants. I do love her enough to not stand in her way but it hurts me to see her leave. If she wants/needs me to help, I will because I do love her even though it will be very painful for me to help. She asked me to help her take apart a bookcase/wall unit I said she could take and help split the kids toys. In my mind it seemed like I got off easy but I made her feel like I struggled to agree
I did tell her that I will likely take down our larger wedding pictures after she leaves. Not because my feelings have changed but because it would be too hurtful to look at them everyday. She offered to take them. I said I would put it in her craftroom and shut the door. I did say I would leave up a few of our smaller pictures though. She said she still has pictures of me up in her cube at work.
I then reminded her about considering pausing any divorce stuff until she healed and was sure there was no "Happily ever after" for us. She said right now she doesn't see a possible happily ever after with me, but she said she would consider it. I did tell her that I'm really not sure what "Happily ever after" looks like either as that is something that we would have to talk about and agree as it needs to be a shared vision. Right now I just have half the picture and when she is ready, I would love to hear hers.
We then talked about how frustrated she was about how the counseling was just focused on the past. She seemed it just kept reopening the old wounds/hurt. I agreed, acknowledged and validated. I asked if she would be more comfortable talking about what we could be doing differently. She said she wasn't ready to talk about future type stuff but would prefer to talk about the present. I said I would talk to our counselor next week and let her know
She then said that she would like to help me plan and setup the kids B'day party. I said I would appreciate that.
I then told her that I would like her to think about making time for us. While I will be respecting her space while she is healing, I don't want her to think that because I an not calling and asking, that my feelings have changed. She did say that if there was something going on that I would like to invite her to that the boys and us can go to, she said I should feel free to invite her. She said not pressure or guilt her into, but invite. I said I would. She said she would need to think about making time for just the 2 of us.
I then told her I do not feel that the seperation does not mean the end of the marriage and I will be behaving as such. If it does wind up with a divorce, I will then move on and change my behavior. She agreed, although caveated that does think the marriage is over, she says she will act and behave like she is married until the divorce is final. She was worried that she thought I would become a jerk to her if we are divorced. I told her that I will be treat her with respect as I can not look at my boys if I am not treating their mother fairly. She seemed ok with that
One other thing she talked about is that she is still hurt and angry. She feels like she can't trust me to be vulnerable and love again. She said its like having a really good friend do something unthinkable to you. Can you be trust that person to be friends again?
I said it had happened to me before and I was able to be friends again
I asked if she had
She said it happened to her but the friendship wasn't the same afterwards. Oh oh I thought. This is going to be a long road back.
Overall, hard conversation. I feel comfortable with what we've come to agreement though. I'm not happy as I still don't agree with the seperation. She seemed satisfied though.
So its pretty firmed up, she will be starting in her apartment next weekend
The journey continues down the dark path....
My oldest turned 7 today. Great day for him
It seemed a little awkward between my wife and I. We chatted very lightly while we got ready. When woke up our boys and wished our oldest happy B'day. Little does he know that one of his b'day surprises this weekend is my wife wants to tell them she is moving out. Pretty heartless.
We did joke and laugh while we were with the boys. My oldest thought my wife sat on his bed without underwear on so he started to say "Butt crack alert" and laughing. She was wearing underwear. Then my 3 year old started saying it too. Then my wife pulled off her underwear and sat on my lap and said "Butt crack alert" as well. It was a lot of laughing and fun
The boys ran out of the room. My wife asked me to crack her back. I said "sure hun, loved to". We hugged and she got a "rise" out of me as I cracked her back. I could tell that made her feel awkward as we broke away.
She was a little distant after that.
Oh well, whatever.
I will be strong for my boys and choose to be happy
A few months after my W and I were out of MC she said the same thing. I agreed we went every week and the hurt was brought out but we both realized we should have told the C that we didn't want to talk about the past but how to move forward. I'm not sure I'll get the chance to do MC again but if you do maybe that's something you and your W should make sure the C knows.
I wish my wife would have said something earlier as well so we could have changed directions/approach. I was getting tired of talking about the past as well. Guess this has been part of our problem, we were both doing something that we didn't want to but we jumped into each other's head thinking that was what the other wanted to do. At least we spoke up know. My wife did say that she would go to another one.
Coach,
What's the ABCDE rechnique?
One other thing she talked about is that she is still hurt and angry.
I think we expect them to get over their hurt and anger a lot sooner than they are able to!
One other thing she talked about is that she is still hurt and angry.
I think we expect them to get over their hurt and anger a lot sooner than they are able to!
I know that but it has been almost 3 months. I'm would have guessed it would have eased somewhat. I guess the weekly counseling of rehashing the past just kept it going. I also know when I backslide when we talk sbout the parenting agreement and divorce related issues, we would wind up talking about the past hurts so that didn't allow her to heal either
I truly hope the seperation will give her the time and sapce to heal so we can be together again. It has been so long, even before the bomb, but I just didn't notice. I was so distracted about kids, work, and house that I lost my best friend along the way
I hope I our paths lead back together again. I miss her already.
I will be strong. I will survive and thrive. For me. For my boys. Hopefully for my wife.
One other thing she talked about is that she is still hurt and angry.
I think we expect them to get over their hurt and anger a lot sooner than they are able to!
I know that but it has been almost 3 months. I'm would have guessed it would have eased somewhat. I guess the weekly counseling of rehashing the past just kept it going. I also know when I backslide when we talk sbout the parenting agreement and divorce related issues, we would wind up talking about the past hurts so that didn't allow her to heal either
I truly hope the seperation will give her the time and sapce to heal so we can be together again. It has been so long, even before the bomb, but I just didn't notice. I was so distracted about kids, work, and house that I lost my best friend along the way
I hope I our paths lead back together again. I miss her already.
I will be strong. I will survive and thrive. For me. For my boys. Hopefully for my wife.
My wife said she was unhappy and hurt "for years". They don't get over that in 3 or 4 months! It takes a lot longer than that. Look at what some of the WAW's have said on these boards, especially some that have reconciled with their husbands...it's a lot longer than 'we' want it to be. They can't really start dealing with it all until they are away from us. Then they start to process it...TONS of emotions. In our case, my wife's anger and rage are full bore right now. Her first night in her new place was Feb. 22nd. They have to deal with a lot of other stuff after they move out before they can start this processing too (logistics, utilities, etc.). My wife's anger and rage at me increased as time has gone by. I've been told that the abcess is draining now, and that pus has to drain out for a while before the thing can start to heal. I'm seeing the pus draining out right now. Who knows how long it will take? Everybody is different. But I do know that it takes a lot longer than we think it should. That's why DB talks about PATIENCE so much. I think the separation will give our wives time and space to start healing. I hope our paths lead back together again too. I wish the same for you.
"I hope I our paths lead back together again. I miss her already."
She's not even out of the house yet. Just take it one day at a time. You can do it.
Take the time to heal while she's healing also.
"I hope I our paths lead back together again. I miss her already."
She's not even out of the house yet. Just take it one day at a time. You can do it.
Take the time to heal while she's healing also.
I know, its pretty pathetic
She's been quiet today - no emails/text or calls. I'm home with my 7 year old for his Bday today. I sent her a couple of funny pics of my oldest from breakfast and lunch. No responses at all
Usually this is a tell where she is going to be hit me with something. I need to make sure my wall is ready. It did crumble over the last 2 weeks as the reality of her leaving and the impact it will have on the kids
I must remember, this is a war for saving the marriage. The seperation is a battle that did not go as planned. The war is still far from over
Thanks for checking in on this Good Friday.
God bless and take care
They don't get over that in 3 or 4 months! It takes a lot longer than that. Look at what some of the WAW's have said on these boards, especially some that have reconciled with their husbands...it's a lot longer than 'we' want it to be.
I think the separation will give our wives time and space to start healing. I hope our paths lead back together again too. I wish the same for you.
I've heard that it takes 1 month for every year we were together. So that would be 9.5 months if its by the marriage time. Or 11 months if we go by how long we were together. Ack. That's a long time
Patience and faith to us all
Wife got home from work and we went out for a B'day dinner for our oldest. Her phone battery died at work so she said she didn't get any of the pictures I sent till the end of the day (I asked what she thought of one of the pics)
We did have a nice dinner - we chatted and joked around like everything was fine. She got cold in the middle of dinner so I took off my sweatshirt for her to wear. We went to get ice cream as the Bday treat. She asked if she could wait in the car since she still was cold (it was a walk up window ice cream store). I went up with my 2 boys and we came back with ice cream for the 4 of us.
We got home and ate our ice cream cones. She was still cold and had the chills pretty bad. Her hands and feet were freezing. She pressed them against my hands and body to warm up as she said I was so warm. She did get a little playful with her feet on my lap/belly
She went up to change and put on some warm comfy clothes as I got the kids their bath and into their pj's
She wound up laying on the couch with a blanket. I came down and tried to be compassionate by saying "Hun, I see you are feeling really cold and look uncomfortable. Is there anything I can get for you to make you more comfortable?" Not sure if that was compassion or sympathy. Any comments?
She asked for some tea. I put an extra blanket on her and made her tea. She fell asleep before she drank any.
I wound up putting the kids to bed. She was snoring away as I came back down. Oddly when I shut off all the lights, she woke up very tired and groggy. I asked how she felt and she said just really run down and tired (probably the stress is breaking down her body like it usually does).
I asked if she needed anything to help her feel better. She said she needed some water and was going to bed. I got her a glass and helped her upstairs as she was really wobbly. I said good nite and went to my den to shop for vacuum cleaners as she took ours to her apartment already. It wasn't even 9PM on a Fri
I really need to get a life
I also drafted a letter of understanding of what we agreed to. My lawyer could draw up an agreement for me this weekend (he was out of town). I just wanted to get something signed before she talked to her lawyer
So we soldier. It's a heck of a war
She woke me up at 4am because she wasn't feeling well and needed some medicine and tea. I helped her with compassion, hopefully not as a Mr Nice Guy. Since we didn't talk before she asleep. We talked about our day. She then started talking about what she needed to do this weekend so she can be at the apt next weekend
I didn't really respond.
We had a good breakfast. She made french toast. First time in a while she made breakfast as I had been getting up an hour before her. This time we got up at the same time.
I took the boys to soccer while she stayed behind to pack/move
I'm sad but I'm having fun soccer with my boys
She had asked if I thought more about the schedule. I said I don't like the schedule and not happy with it. I told her that I may be setting my bar too high since I'm not happy nor like what's happening.
I did tell her I was planning on going to church for easter sunday. I wasn't sure if she wanted to go but I made sure she knew she was invited this time. She said she thought it would be crowded but said she would go
So it continues
Got home with the boys from soccer. She was out buying more stuff for her apartment. I did call to see if she was going join us for lunch. She said no but should be home to make dinner (she's making meatloaf, my favorite).
It still hurts seeing things go every day. I do not like the situation nor am I happy about it.
Since this entire thing started I've had a "hollow" feeling in my chest/gut. Guess this is what a broken heart feels like.
I've gotten short with my youngest as he is like my wife. When he is frustrated or hurt, he walks away crying/in tears. I've talked to him a few times about not walking away, but expressing what is hurting him. I just don't want him to make the same mistakes my wife and I had made. I had to choke back my tears as I talked to him
I did have fun with my youngest building a wooden dump truck before lunch
The 3 of us went and grabbed lunch
While my youngest was napping,I'm showing my oldest how to build with the erector set we got him for his Bday
I will be happy with my boys. I will be happy with me. I will miss my wife when she does actually leave
I will be strong. I will survive and thrive.
I hope everyone enjoys their easter
Nite started with potential to be a mess but it was ok
She got home too late to make meatloaf so she said she was going to make burgers instead. I said that was what we had for lunch so I wanted to go out. The kids made a fuss to just have peanutbutter and jelly sandwiches. I said no, we're going out. I asked my wife where she would want to go. She said she didn't care. So I picked one of her favorites, which is also one of my favorites
It was a BYOB place so I grabbed some beers and a small champagne for her (she doesn't like the beers I drink). We had a good dinner with good food, drink and conversation. Kids did a good job. My food had to be redone because of a snafu in the kitchen. Normally I get upset about it. Instead I told them to just bring out my wife's (kids meal already came out with the appetizer) since I knew she was starving. I stayed upbeat and didn't let me be bothered by it at all (a major 180 for me)
We got home late so the kids went right to bed. My wife took a shower and so did I, seperately :-(
I folded laundry while my wife surfed the net. She came out complaining about a return she had to make. I listened and empathized. We talked about various non-relationship topics. Finally she said she was tired and going to bed. She said goodnite and off she went
I was actually relieved to not have to talk about custody or anything serious like that tonite.
It did seem like she tried to pick a fight about how I liked to listen to music all the time, where before I never did. I just shrugged and gave her a "Oh, I hadn't noticed" line
Its one day closer to her moving out. We are going to church together tomorrow. I will pray for some extra strength and guidance tonite
Happy Easter everyone
I woke up early as usual (6AM). This time I had set my alarm as we were going to church for a 9AM service
My boys woke up and they went downstairs to watch a show. I took a shower. As I just finished drying off my wife walked into the bathroom. I still was naked but she came over and hugged me and asked me to crack her back. After I did, I broke away but she held on. I hugged her again and we joked about something that I forget. She laughed and smacked my bare bottom before we stopped hugging.
I went down to make breakfast but she said she would make her own. She said she didn't like how I made eggs. I said that I'll never know if she doesn't tell me. She snapped that she just wanted to make them. I just smiled and walked away.
While I was making breakfast my wife played with my 3 year old
She made a comment about how now I like to listen to music all the time when I never did before. I just shrugged and kept making breakfast
During breakfast we talked about misc stuff. When I put hot sauce on my egg sandwich, she made another comment about how I never ate hot sauce before. I just shrugged and said I had a hankering
We all got ready and went to church. It was hard for me at church as I realized that since she has the kids on Sun, that I won't get to go with them again. I choked back my tears and focused on the service
It was a nice Easter service
We went out for a nice lunch as a family. If you saw us, we would have looked like any other happy family, not one in the middle of a divorce
We got home and I put my youngest down for a nap. My wife reminded me that she wanted help taking apart the bookcase/wall unit that holds all the kids toys. I said I still didn't want to but would if she really wants me to help. She said she wanted me to help. I said I would but wanted to wait to tell the kids. She said that could be tough. I said that was still my opinion.
She took a nap and I continued to work on the erector set with my oldest in my den
She woke up and asked if she could use the computer. My oldest said he was done for today (its really hard for him to follow the instructions) and wanted to watch a show. We left the room as she started surfing for more stuff for her apartment.
I hope everyone has a good Easter
It was another tough nite
She was really angry after the conversation on when to tell the kids. I told her we should wait till the day before or the day she actually leaves.
She came into my den and started stressing and venting about being angry. She said she wasn't making any progress in leaving and feels that she is angry to the point she was going to leave right then and there. I tried to be compassionate and acknowledge her feelings. I didn't appologize for anything but then showed her the "Letter of understanding" I put together based on our conversation. She made some corrections to grammer and then said she wasn't going to sign anything until she reviewed it with her lawyer. Dang it. I said it was just to capture what we had discussed. She said she agreed that it captured what we agreed to the other nite. She emailed it to herself and I asked her to copy me
Then she got a call and said she had to go pick up the uhaul truck. WTF?!?!?
She said there was a snafu as she was suppose to pick it up tomorrow but the reservation got messed up
Anyway she said she had to go and will be back later
My boys and I ate the meatloaf dinner she made for us. They asked where mom was and I just said she had an errand to run
When she got home, she appologized for missing dinner. She tried to be nice but I had enough for today
After we put the kids to bed, she then asked me to help her take apart the bookcase. I told her I didn't want to as it would be too painful for me. Because I do love her, I would if she wanted me to. She said she did want me to. So I took apart the bookcase/wallunit.
She then started splitting up the kids books while I surfed the web for a replacement bookcase/wall unit.
I reviewed how she had split things up, I made some adjustments and got a little emotional. I just said "This s**ks".
After we were done, I told her that I wished I understood the extent of the problem last year and we were able to talk like we are now. She started to cry but I think more of recalling her hurt than remorse
I asked her about a comment she made a few times this weekend, where she said that I would just move on and forget about her. I asked if that's what she really wanted.
She started saying how she really doesn't know what she wants. She said she thought I would just get mad and move on. She started to cry again
I did acknowledge her hurt and said that I see that I didn't hurt her by making her feel unloved, but she felt unloveable (from the book "Love without Hurt"). I told her that she is loveable and I do love her. I said I had tried to show her to the best I could in the past but I understand it differently now. I did it with my head before, but now its with my heart.
I told her we could make it different if we gave it a chance. She just nodded and cried a little more
She then said it was late and she was tired.
So she's moving out tomorrow
I have my therapist appointment tomorrow as well. She also said that she's not going the following week either as she would be just settling into her new place. She said she would go the week after that. I said if that's what she wanted to do
Its going to be a tough week
Confused,
I can feel the love you have for your wife and sons. My heart breaks for you having to go through this. I can certainly empathize. It hurts to finally understand what it is you need to do to fix the things that have been going wrong in your relationship and not be given the opportunity. You feel gyped. I wish you strength in getting through this tough week you speak of.
Confused,
I can feel the love you have for your wife and sons. My heart breaks for you having to go through this. I can certainly empathize. It hurts to finally understand what it is you need to do to fix the things that have been going wrong in your relationship and not be given the opportunity. You feel gyped. I wish you strength in getting through this tough week you speak of.
Thanks for checking in on my thread. It is a tough week as it's a real gut shot.
I think you captured it spot on. I feel gyped that I'm not given the opportunity. I know that's how my wife also feels as she feels' gyped for being hurt over the years. She had thought that marriage would be happy and loving. Instead she feels she has gotten years of pain/hurt. There were happy moments, but she felt that the love was not there.
I've told her that I had tried to make her feel loved the way I had known how. I see that didn't meet what she expected. I understand that now.
I thought I would be a lot worse today, particularly as I saw the Uhaul truck parked down the street. Perhaps I'm numb. Or I know that I've done everything that I can do to give us a chance now. This is now her decision.
I pray that we have the strength and wisdom to save our marriage
I have 4 words for you. SNAP OUT OF IT!
You went from being very strong in terms of keeping the DB principles to being self-centered again. Re-read your posts from yesterday and today. "I" don't believe in this, "I" don't believe in that. "I" don't know how I feel.
What happened to being compassionate to what your W wants? If you don't go back to being compassionate to her needs and wants, you are dooming yourself to failure.
I've really given it much deeper thinking of late. I see how I've gotten more focused on me than on her. I hope that it hasn't pushed her even further away.
I do see how I haven't gotten comfortable with any parenting agreement as it's not what I want, I want to keep the family together. This is something that she needs to achieve what she wants. I believe this is where compassion/love starts, doing something its what someone you love needs, even if it's not what you want.
I told her that as I showed her the letter of understanding that outlined what we discussed the other day. She seemed to calm down somewhat, not sure if it's because she is seeing progress in moving out or if she feels the compassion/love that I'm trying to show.
When she asked me to help her take apart a bookcase/wall unit, I told her its not what I want to do as it hurts to see her leave, but because I do love her, I will help if she wants me to. I wasn't enthusiastic when I helped her, but I wasn't mean/nasty, just sad.
She has taken the day off today to move. I have my therapy appointment today so I won't be home till late. I wonder what will be left.
I must remember, neither my wife nor my marriage makes me happy. I have the power to choose to be happy, whether I with my wife or not. I will not make myself feel powerless by trying to control what my wife does, these are her choices. The only person I can control is myself. The only person I can change is myself. So that is what I will focus on. I will be the best man, friend and father I can be, for myself, for my sons.
I will survive and thrive.
It's just after lunch. She's probably got the truck loaded and moving right now.
Very odd feeling - I'm a little anxious to find out what's she taken, but on the other hand, I'm feeling a little relieved that there is going to be a change. Hopefully it will be a change for the better.
I did get a call from her about one of our close friends. We had found out over the weekend that the husband is in the hospital with a strep infection in his blood. She called to tell me they now found it in the lining of his heart. Her friend called to see if she could watch the kids from 8PM to 11:30PM so the wife could stay with the husband during this time. My wife called to ask if it was ok. Of course I said yes.
Oh well, so it will be another nite without my wife. I guess I haven't had my wife around since Jan. I need to get used to it.
I had a good lunch with one of my friends who knows about my situation. I tried not to just talk about it during the entire lunch, but he did talk about some of the stuff going on with him and his family as well.
I have my therapy appointment tonite - it's suppose to be our consuling appointment but my wife was skipping this and the next appointment as she needed the time to complete/settle her move. She said she was going to keep going to every other one. One promising thing is she wants to shift from talking about the past to the present. Not the future, just the present. I'll talk to the therapist/counselor about this evening.
Anyone else run into this with their WAW?
Anbody have any thoughts/experience with going to counseling with a WAW?
My wife and I have spent almost a dozen sessions rehashing the past just to have the counselor conclude that we never achieved a fully connected intimacy in our marriage of 9.5 years. Principle reason for that had been communication. I know I did my share which contributed to the lack of communication. My wife hasn't openly acknowledged it, but I think internally its on her radar. Part of it is because of some of the things she had said or she agrees when I say that our communication has improved.
Now she, like I had a few weeks ago, is tired of talking about the past. The past for her is just bringing back the hurt/pain that she felt. She wants to talk about the present. Not the future (i.e. how do we move forward or improve), but just the present. She does acknowledge that this may lead to a conversation about the past or future and is ok with that.
I really don't fully understand/follow what's she's getting at, but was curious what other people thought or their experience.
I made it clear to my wife that she should go to counseling only if she wanted to go. Hence her decision to go every other week. She said her rational is that she doesn't feel like things change that much from week to week to really get into different things. Don't really know for sure, other than the fact that she's not going the next 2 sessions.
Thoughts or encouragement would really be welcome!
Man, I'd give anything if my wife would go to counseling. Lots of guys here would! You're still in the game, man! Keep reading, learning, and studying. And above all, work on yourself and become a better man, father, and husband...regardless!
I think that's great. Just stress to the C before you go what you want to accomplish and that you want to know what to do NOW. Like I told you my W said the same thing.
Man, I'd give anything if my wife would go to counseling. Lots of guys here would! You're still in the game, man! Keep reading, learning, and studying. And above all, work on yourself and become a better man, father, and husband...regardless!
Antlers,
I appreciate the optimism. I know that at least she is going. I'm still not sure why she's going. She had picked up a uhaul truck last nite and took the day off today to pack up. Hard for me to be optimistic on a day light today.
It's still not clear to me as to why she's going to counseling as she really wouldn't give me a clear answer. Ever when our counselor asked, it sounds like she's treating it more like co-parenting counseling than marriage counseling.
At least I'm not stressing right now like I have been the last several weeks on what to talk about tonite with her in counseling. Guess I have to be thankful for the little things...
Thanks for checking in again!
I think that's great. Just stress to the C before you go what you want to accomplish and that you want to know what to do NOW. Like I told you my W said the same thing.
A few months after my W and I were out of MC she said the same thing. I agreed we went every week and the hurt was brought out but we both realized we should have told the C that we didn't want to talk about the past but how to move forward. I'm not sure I'll get the chance to do MC again but if you do maybe that's something you and your W should make sure the C knows.
Volleydog,
Thanks for checking in on me. It was a tough weekend as it seemed like there was very light traffic on the board. I did a lot of journaling, but it was a tough weekend. It's going to be a tough week as well.
I had noticed that you said that your wife wanted to talk about moving foward. My wife said she doesn't want to talk about moving foward stuff as that would be talking about the future. She doesn't know what the future is so moving forward could mean either working on the marriage or working on the divorce.
So she wants to talk just about the present - i.e. things that are happening now/recently. I had done that a few weeks ago where I talked about the things that had been going well the past week and she really responded. Unfortunately, the next week was a really mess and that was the weekend she got her apartment and finalized her move out plans. So there wasn't much to talk about from a positive since in our weekly counseling sessions. We had talked about some recent stuff (i.e. when my aunt and mom came to visit), but it had been a rehash of the past.
When she told me she was tired of talking about the past, which is why she wanted to switch to every other week, I agreed with her that I didn't want to keep talking about the past either. I suggested talking about what was going on now and what are things we can do differently. She said she just wanted to talk about the present, NOT the future. She made it clear that talking about what are things we can do differently is future/foward looking.
I am feeling more and more tired lately. I've been staying up later and later and it's getting harder to get up. I need to get a good night sleep to recharge. That's not going to happen tonite because of what's going on with our good friend. I know I need to keep my strenght and focus.
Thanks again for your thoughts!
Let me be clear she wasn't talking about moving our M forward but a way to be better for the kids, ect. I just don't think you can talk about the present only because you'll be talking about what you are going to do (future tense)not what you are doing right at the moment in time. I still think it's a positive.
Let me be clear she wasn't talking about moving our M forward but a way to be better for the kids, ect. I just don't think you can talk about the present only because you'll be talking about what you are going to do (future tense)not what you are doing right at the moment in time. I still think it's a positive.
I agree with you. That's why I was confused to what my wife was trying to say. I was hoping that if she goes to another one with me, we can talk it through with the counselor so it will make more sense.
Thanks again for checking in on me. I hope you had a good weekend!
Still checking in on you man. I don't have much new info to add. Just keep working on yourself the way you have. The the more strength you can show through this, the better.
I am really mad. She told the kids without me there today. She said mommy and daddy are working somethings out so we will have 2 places.
I told her it was disrespectful and feel once again it is just all about her decisions, nothing with mine
I am now angry
You had to have seen this coming. Why did you want to wait till she was out the door to tell them?
I was going to wait till the day she moved out. She didn't move out today since the movers never showed up. Now we don't know when she will reschedule it to. I did not want the kids to just be waiting in limbo like I am
We had a family meeting and we told them we love them very much and will always love them as their mom and dad. Mommy and daddy are working on some adult things so she will have a place and daddy will stay home. I saw my oldest tear up a little so I said it was ok to feel sad about it as daddy is sad about it. I then asked if they had any questions that they can ask
My oldest asked me how long will mommy be renting. I said mommy needs to answer that one. She said she didn't know.
She was mad that I talked to them and told them so much. She was also mad about how I talked to her. I said that I felt disrespected and hurt. I told her that we're both very emotional right now so we should cool off and talk later.
It will have to be tomorrow since she's babysitting for our good friends who's husband is in the hospital. She won't be back till midnite
One thing I would point out is that both of you have to stop pointing fingers at one another especially with the kids.
It's tough. Especially when my 6 y.o. D heard.
Hang in there though you can do it.
One thing I would point out is that both of you have to stop pointing fingers at one another especially with the kids.
It's tough. Especially when my 6 y.o. D heard.
Hang in there though you can do it.
I'm tempted to call her while she is babysitting at my friends house?
Stupid?
Crazy?
Dumb?
I want to tell her that I didn't mean to offend her about anything I said.
Or is that too much Mr Nice Guy?
Don't do it! That's persuing, under the guise of apologizing. I know it's hard not to. She know's how you feel...believe me. She knows you care, and she knows you don't want this. We feel a need to keep telling them, like they're gonna forget or something. They won't. And they know how we feel.
She got back home and said that she had wanted to call me but her cellphone battery died. She asked if I had wanted to talk
I said that I was surprised when she called me to tell me she told the boys by herself. I told her I felt that it was unfair and disrespectful. I said that I didn't mean to say anything that offended her, but I felt this was something that we should have done together. I told her that the one thing we are on the same page is that we are both passionate about our kids.
She said that she wanted to tell them yesterday but was frustrated that I didn't want to. She said she felt that I wanted to lie to the kids, which she didn't agree with. I said I wished she would have said that yesterday. I agree that we shouldn't lie to the kids, but she could have said that we would talk about it once daddy got home
We wound up talking about communication and we seem to be getting better at it. She said we're definitely talking more but doesn't feel that we are able to reach conclusions. She agreed that we seem definitely more comfortable in saying things.
She said that in the past she felt that if she said something that made me mad, I would do things/act in a way to make her uncomfortable. I said if I did that it was unintentional and she should have called me out on it.
So goes another evening. Sounds like she's going move on Sat now. I told her that I will not be around and will be taking the boys shopping for furniture to replace what she's taking out of the playroom. She said she understood.
So I finally got really angry.
I have a feeling it won't be the last time
Yep they don't call it the roller coaster for nothin'.
Quite frankly, I wouldn't even require your W to go to the every other C session. Sounds like a half ass attempt at placating you on her part. She really doesn't want to go.
I think the best for you and her is the space.
Hold on tight because the road gets bumpier.
Yep they don't call it the roller coaster for nothin'.
Quite frankly, I wouldn't even require your W to go to the every other C session. Sounds like a half ass attempt at placating you on her part. She really doesn't want to go.
I think the best for you and her is the space.
Hold on tight because the road gets bumpier.
Stuck808
I can see the space providing positives and negatives. I just hope we don't kill each other or what's left of our relationship in the process.
I hadn't required her to attend counseling. Every week we had set it up where I was going and she was welcome to attend as well. When she brought up attending every other , I responded "If that's what you want to do"
This week is going to be a tough one. In a way I was relieved that she was going to complete her move yesterday. I had mixed feelings when she called to say her movers never showed up. I had wished it was done so we could move forward. Now we're still in limbo
I'm particularly urked that our kids know. Last nite they both asked when how long she will be renting. They both asked as they went to bed and got up a few times to ask
They are now in limbo as well
There's not much new to say other than the limbo continues.
I feel my wife feels the same.
She says she wants to move out so she will have time and space. Don't know what for, but she feels she needs it. She still says she doesn't know what she wants.
My therapist/counselor seems to be pushing me to just move on. Yesterday's session I told her what my wife said about wanting to stop talking about the past and start talking about the present. She said that my wife keeps bringing up the past with respect to how it hurt her.
She asked me what I wanted to talk about? I didn't know what I wanted to talk about when/if my wife attends another counseling session. I said all I know is that I want to save my marriage. I know all that I can do is work on myself and change so I won't make the same mistakes again. I need to do that for myself, my kids and hopefully wife will be there to see and believe it as well. So I asked her what should we talk about to reach my outcome. She seemed unsure as well. Not very reassuring. I do have another appointment with her this Friday (I normally only see her once a week, but I have a feeling it's going to be tough over the next 2 weeks so I scheduled 3 appointments).
Anyway we continued our conversation from my last therapy appointment is do I love my wife. She asked if I would die for her. I said without hesitation, yes. The irony is that I struggle with putting her needs in front of mine when they conflict. I thought that was also part of love, loving someone enough to help them achieve their goals/dreams, even if it's not what I want. But because I love them, it is what I want to do. I know I didn't/don't do that with my wife. I can't do that now with her wanting to move out and a divorce. The other problem, is my wife didn't clearly communicate her dreams/goals/wants to me so I was assuming/guessing most of the time.
Unfortunately I usually assumed/guessed wrong so I never helped her achieve her dreams/goals/wants.
Then my counselor said I need to set more boundaries. She sees that I don't have many boundaries with my wife. This was one area we spent a lot of time exploring but I'm still struggling with. I know it was in the Mr. Nice Guy Book. I heard it's also in the NUTS book, but don't want to start that until I'm done with Love without Hurt. I'm also struggling with compassion, but didn't even get to that with my therapist.
She said a boundary should be anything that is a mixed message or adds to my hurt. I told her about how my wife came into the bathroom as I was drying off from my shower and gave me a hug. She said that was clearly a mixed message and I should have drawn a boundary there, or at least asked what was she doing by giving me a hug. Was she trying to make herself feel better? Or was she give me a crumb of emotion to keep me going? Or what? The discussion with my therapist had really gotten me confused. My therapist asked me how I felt about the hug. I did like it when she came to me, but then it did add to my confusion and hurt afterwards.
She said that my love for my wife is like an addiction. Right now I'm going through withdrawls of my wife no longer giving me love. So any little thing is feeding my addiction and making my withdrawls worse. Something to think about
Seems like my therapist is pushing me to let go and move on. Not sure if that's the direcction I like to head down.....
What is everyone's thoughts? Is my therapist really helping me save my marriage? It doesn't seem like to me. Seems like she's more worried about me coming out without being an emotional wreck after a divorce.....
Regardless what you're being told, I wouldn't give up on your marriage if your convictions tell you to stay committed to it.
I think she's right you do need to let go. Not in a sense of giving up but for your own sanity.
Since I've been through this I will tell you it's going to get worse before it gets better. It would drive me crazy that I couldn't just see her or talk to her whenever I wanted, I made the mistake at the beginning by trying to do that...PLEASE DON'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE. Let her miss you, it won't happen right away but I think it will but it's got to be on her time not yours. Enjoy the time you have with the kids and the hard part GAL your butt off when there not with you.
I think she's right you do need to let go. Not in a sense of giving up but for your own sanity.
Since I've been through this I will tell you it's going to get worse before it gets better. It would drive me crazy that I couldn't just see her or talk to her whenever I wanted, I made the mistake at the beginning by trying to do that...PLEASE DON'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE. Let her miss you, it won't happen right away but I think it will but it's got to be on her time not yours. Enjoy the time you have with the kids and the hard part GAL your butt off when there not with you.
I struggle with this daily. I want to talk to her, to see her, and I can't! I'm trying hard not to. I'm doing OK with it right now, but I have made the mistake you mention in the past. I hope she will get to where she misses me...but, 'if' it ever happens, I think it'll be a long time from now. I try hard to enjoy the time with our kids...and working harder on me.
Regardless what you're being told, I wouldn't give up on your marriage if your convictions tell you to stay committed to it.
Antlers
Thanks for stopping by. I don't seem to have much traffic/interest on my thread other than a small group of folks. Looks like you got Sandi2 working with you. I've been following what she's been telling you. Its good to have that insight
I don't want to give up on my marriage. My therapist isn't giving me much hope nor are my friends. Its all so painful.
I do want to keep trying but I've run out of what to do.
I feel lost at times. When I do I post its to get some thoughts/advice/encouragement
Thanks again
I don't want to give up on my marriage.
I do want to keep trying but I've run out of what to do.
Then don't! No matter what your friends and therapist, or anybody else, including your wife, are telling you. We're told here that if only one person in the relationship changes...then the relationship WILL change. That's the dynamics of it. It can't help but change.
Then keep on trying. Sometimes I suppose there is nothing else we can do, except work on ourselves. Period. And have patience, patience, and more patience.
Antlers
Thanks for stopping by. Looks like you got Sandi2 working with you. I've been following what she's been telling you. Its good to have that insight
Yeah. It's been awhile since something good has happened for me. Having her working with me is definately a good thing! Her insight is priceless!
CIPA,
You are at the same point in your sitch that I am in mine. I can tell you that it does get easier overall, but you will have those melancholy days from time to time.
Have you examined yourself and your emotions for signs of depression? I know that about a month after my W walked out, I went to the doc and started up on anti-depressants (Celexa). They have really had a noticeable effect on my mood. They don't change my sitch or the life events around it, but it really has helped me cope with my run-away emotions. I still do have an odd day now and again, but not nearly as long or as intense as the pain I was in a few months ago.
Stay in the fight and work on you and your kids!
I think she's right you do need to let go. Not in a sense of giving up but for your own sanity.
Since I've been through this I will tell you it's going to get worse before it gets better. It would drive me crazy that I couldn't just see her or talk to her whenever I wanted, I made the mistake at the beginning by trying to do that...PLEASE DON'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE. Let her miss you, it won't happen right away but I think it will but it's got to be on her time not yours. Enjoy the time you have with the kids and the hard part GAL your butt off when there not with you.
Volleydog,
Thanks for the advice. I do know that's the right thing to do. The eternal struggle is doing what right is not always what's easy.....
Thanks again for stopping by my thread.
CIPA,
You are at the same point in your sitch that I am in mine. I can tell you that it does get easier overall, but you will have those melancholy days from time to time.
Have you examined yourself and your emotions for signs of depression? I know that about a month after my W walked out, I went to the doc and started up on anti-depressants (Celexa). They have really had a noticeable effect on my mood. They don't change my sitch or the life events around it, but it really has helped me cope with my run-away emotions. I still do have an odd day now and again, but not nearly as long or as intense as the pain I was in a few months ago.
Stay in the fight and work on you and your kids!
PortlandDad,
I appreciate the concern. I am keeping an eye out on that as that had been an issue for me in the past - a mild depression that caused me to shut down and lose interest in life in general. Unfortunately, this went on for 2-3 years (my wife says 8) and I was miserable to be around. That's another reason why I'm seeing a therapist twice a week.
She's the one who is pushing me to let go and move on. Unfortunately, she's also our marriage counselor so it really questions what she can do to really help us. She has without a doubt helped me. Her as well as the folks on this board.
Thanks again
"She's the one who is pushing me to let go and move on. Unfortunately, she's also our marriage counselor so it really questions what she can do to really help us. "
I don't see why you don't think she's helping your M. She's just saying the same thing everyone here has been telling you from day 1. TO DETACH.
She's not telling you to stop loving your W. She didn't tell you to stop working on your R. She's telling you to let go and move on which means in DBing - DETACH AND GAL.
She sounds perfect for saving your M. She recognizes that you have to work on you and that your W has to work on herself.
I think the biggest struggle you're having is that you're still trying to FIX the M when the reality is that you don't have a M. It's perfectly normal for a man to want to "fix" things. However women want to deal with the feelings and emotions of things to which there is no easy fix. It's a M and not a broken chair leg.
You have to understand that it's out of your hands so you have to rely on yourself to get you happy.
It's extremely tough, but you take it one step at a time. One day at a time. You can do it. We all have.
"My therapist isn't giving me much hope nor are my friends."
Your T is giving you the best hope in the world. She is teaching you how YOU hold the key to your happiness and therein lies hope. If you're happy and strong there's always hope. As for friends, we all have friends who encourage us to "move on". But it's not their life so they have nothing to lose by telling you to move on. So where does it lead back to? You guessed it...YOU!
That's why detachment and GAL is so important. Turn your attention elsewhere and develop into the strong confident person once more. That will attract your W again.
You have to understand that it's out of your hands so you have to rely on yourself to get you happy.
If you're happy and strong there's always hope.
Turn your attention elsewhere and develop into the strong confident person once more. That will attract your W again.
Good advice for all of us.
"I told her what my wife said about wanting to stop talking about the past and start talking about the present. She said that my wife keeps bringing up the past with respect to how it hurt her. "
Your T is right. It has been your W bringing it up constantly. I personally think it's been an excuse to blame you for her own confusion, but who knows. Hopefully she'll see that she can't blame you for everything once you're not around.
"She's the one who is pushing me to let go and move on. Unfortunately, she's also our marriage counselor so it really questions what she can do to really help us. "
I don't see why you don't think she's helping your M. She's just saying the same thing everyone here has been telling you from day 1. TO DETACH.
She's not telling you to stop loving your W. She didn't tell you to stop working on your R. She's telling you to let go and move on which means in DBing - DETACH AND GAL.
She sounds perfect for saving your M. She recognizes that you have to work on you and that your W has to work on herself.
I think the biggest struggle you're having is that you're still trying to FIX the M when the reality is that you don't have a M. It's perfectly normal for a man to want to "fix" things. However women want to deal with the feelings and emotions of things to which there is no easy fix. It's a M and not a broken chair leg.
You have to understand that it's out of your hands so you have to rely on yourself to get you happy.
It's extremely tough, but you take it one step at a time. One day at a time. You can do it. We all have.
"My therapist isn't giving me much hope nor are my friends."
Your T is giving you the best hope in the world. She is teaching you how YOU hold the key to your happiness and therein lies hope. If you're happy and strong there's always hope. As for friends, we all have friends who encourage us to "move on". But it's not their life so they have nothing to lose by telling you to move on. So where does it lead back to? You guessed it...YOU!
That's why detachment and GAL is so important. Turn your attention elsewhere and develop into the strong confident person once more. That will attract your W again.
Stuck808
Thanks for the 2x4 and getting my head back in the game
Your T is right. It has been your W bringing it up constantly. I personally think it's been an excuse to blame you for her own confusion, but who knows. Hopefully she'll see that she can't blame you for everything once you're not around.
Stuck808
I hope you're right.
What's odd is my wife is unusually nice tonite. I think this has been the cycle. When I push back, she goes into nice mode. Not sure what her agenda is other than her being afraid to make me mad
I really have to keep her at arms length so I don't let her think she can placate me
Nothing too eventful tonite. Her back was really bothering her so she asked me to massage it. I did but it was really pretty badly knotted so I don't think it eased much.
We wound up watching some baseball when I told her I needed to finish our taxes. We owed just under 5 figures. I told her and she was shocked. I asked her how she wanted to handle it. She said she would give me a check for her share if I paid it. That was fine with me
In the past, when she was low on cash, I would have offered to just cover these large bills. I didn't this time since she's leaving me. I know she is really stressing.
She said she was going to try and finish moving on Sat. I told her I was going to take the boys shopping for replacement furniture for the playroom that she's taking. She said that sounded like a good idea
I feel odd tonite. I know I'm going to miss her but its not that sad to me tonite. Maybe I'm fooling myself. I do want her to stay but I guess I'm tired of feeling powerless as I know I can't control her to do that. I think I'm back to feeling at peace that I'm doing everything I can to work on me and change to be the best man, father, husband/friend I can be
One thing I'm struggling a little with is on Monday we're suppose to go to the "Children of Divorce" seminar. We're suppose to drive down together. It just seems odd as she's moving out this weekend. Any thoughts on how to handle this?
I really s**k at setting boundaries. My therapist said that I should set boundaries on things that are mixed messages or confuse me (which can actually be a lot).
This morning my wife walked into our master bedroom suite, just like every other morning, to get ready. I said good morning, like I usually do, and she responded with good morning as well. She then started complaining about how cold she was and her back was still bothering her. She walked over to our bed and climbed in. I had the blankets wrapped around me and I asked if she needed some covers. She said yes and then snuggled up against me. I rested my arm over her arm out of habit/reflex. I pulled it off and back away from her a few inches. I asked her if she wanted me to hug her (I know very dumb question - I should have either just done it or not, instead I gave her the "power"). She said no. I didn't say anything, just rolled over. She then snuggled her back/bottom against my back/bottom.
She then started talking about some weird dream she had. I listened and tried to show her that I was attentive.
Then she moved her convesation into talking about getting a truck on Sat to move (AH HA - her true motive/agenda). She had brought it up on Monday nite, that that was going to happen. She joked about how odd/weird the guy was. I just commented, there are a lot of strange people out there.
She then started stretching on the bed and wound up laying her head on my stomach. I didn't touch her, she kept talking about various other things and I tried to be attentive.
After we got ready, I asked if she signed the tax returns. She said she hadn't but did look at them. She went back downstairs to sign them.
My oldest son and I then left the house to go to school/work.
My therapist had said I should stop her when she does things that send me mixed messages and ask her what's she is doing. I'm not going to over think it. My gut says she was just cold this morning and wanted to warm up. Should I have said no, don't climb into our bed with me?
Yes, that's what you should have done. Cake. Eating.
Either she's part of the marital bed or she's not. But the operative term there is "marital." Unless you're interested in a bed-buddy. In which case, drive on.
She's a Big Girl. Explain to her that, while you understand about her back, the fact is that in the present circumstances it's too difficult to deal with the competing emotional desire to help her out and the sexual desire that results. Could she please, just out of respect for your feelings, find other ways to handle her situation?
That is just so difficult. I know I would love to have my wife just touch me like that but then my mind would race when the next day she wouldn't even talk to me or something like that.
Once again for your own sanity I do think you need to tell her look I love you BUT I really can't have this right now it's too hard. My guess is she'll get pi$$ed but that's her problem, she's setting boundaries for herself you should too.
Yes, that's what you should have done. Cake. Eating.
SmileysPerson,
I know that's what it was as it was going on. I just couldn't think of what would be appropriate thing to say.
My therapist had said that I should set a boundary and say "You are leaving me. I feel this is sending me a mixed message and it's confusing me"
My gut says that she was really just cold and looking to warm up. My connudrum was do I allow her to get warm or what.
Once again for your own sanity I do think you need to tell her look I love you BUT I really can't have this right now it's too hard. My guess is she'll get pi$$ed but that's her problem, she's setting boundaries for herself you should too.
I know I need to set boundaries. My therapist has emphasized that as well. Even before the bomb, I didn't have a lot of boundaries, but the problem was that my wife didn't understand that. My nature is that if she asked for or wanted something, I would always ask to understand why. She always treated the why as to a no and then drop it. I would then assume that if she dropped it, that she didn't want it any more.
One thing that she had brought up in the past was when we were getting a new car for her, she asked about getting a sunroof. I gave her my experience with sunroofs and my opinion. Then she dropped the conversation so I assumed she thought it through and decided she didn't want one. So I picked up a new SUV without one. About 3 months later, she started gripping about how I didn't think she was worth a sunroof. It was a WTF moment for me as I had just gotten her a $30K SUV and she feels I don't value her. I would have gotten her the sunroof if she just said, "I want a sunroof" Period end of discussion. There's not that big of a difference between a $30K SUV and a $31K SUV.
So this has been our problem, both of us were hesitant/afraid of saying exactly what was on our mind......
So the world turns and the divorce roller coaster moves on.....
If she needs to get warm that badly, buy her one of those freaking Snuggies, man!
If she needs to get warm that badly, buy her one of those freaking Snuggies, man!
Haha
I'm not sure if she would have appreciated the humor in that one!
She just sent me an email about us leaving together to go to the Children of Divorce seminar
It makes sense to drive together since its about 35 minutes away but it doesn't sit right with me. She's leaving me this weekend but wants us to drive together. This seems like cake eating behavior.
Its not that I don't want to be in the car with her, its just that it doesn't feel like what should be happening.
Argh!!!!!
What to do?
Well if communication is a problem tell her. Tell her you are not comfortable driving together to something like this, what have you got to lose?
I guess part of my problem is that I don't know how I really feel about it. Sounds crazy but to me I really am numb about. The only reason why I feel uncomfortable about driving with her is that I don't want to be "used" or treated as a "door mat" by her. By driving her down there, is that too much like a "Nice Guy" approach? Should that really be a boundary? I just don't know.
I think my situation is very unusual as my wife has really be trying to maintain an amicable relationship. I think most WAW's just turn angry/mean and leave. Anybody have any thoughts on that?
I would like to spend time with her, but as my therapist has pointed out, it seems like I'm going through withdraw from an addiction. My therapist said that I'm "addicated" to my wife's love. Now that she's taken that drug away from me on Jan 9th, I'm going through withdrawl. So any small crumb or doses that I get from my wife is actually hurting my recovery.
I guess that's her way of saying I need to detach and move on. I had interpretted that as that I need to give up on the marriage. My therapist is prepping me not to be hopeful (I presume so I won't be an emotional wreck again once the divorce if final).
Everyone here has said that once she moves out, I need to detach, get a life and go DIM. It is so hard to do as I am the type that goes into extremes, so I need to be careful that my DIM and detach mode doesn't make me come accross as cold.
One of my friends (a current WAW) suggested that the next time she sends the mixed/confusing message (ie crawling into bed this morning), I should say "I'm confused. You are saying you are leaving me and want a divorce. However when you do things like this I think that there are feelings there. Its very confusing"
Any thoughts?
"One thing I'm struggling a little with is on Monday we're suppose to go to the "Children of Divorce" seminar. "
Why are you even going to this? You aren't even D yet. Is this something to deter D or to show you how to deal with kids after a D?
Was this your idea or your W's?
"She then snuggled her back/bottom against my back/bottom."
This isn't snuggling. Snuggling is when there's a certain amount of intimacy involved. She is showing you that she has turned her back on you. Psychological body language.
"I think my situation is very unusual as my wife has really be trying to maintain an amicable relationship. I think most WAW's just turn angry/mean and leave. Anybody have any thoughts on that?"
She hasn't been maintaining an amicable relationship. She is only doing certain things that and when she feels comfortable doing. When you want to do something, she flies off the handle. Look at how she handled telling your kids about the D. For the WAW's it's not mean/angry. It's called selfishness. See it for what it is.
The WAW can justify it all they want, but it comes down to their needs over yours and everyone else's. That's why sometimes you have to stop them before they get on that train of thought and hit them with the truth bomb every now and then. Validating/agreeing with what their saying is good every now and then, however sometimes they keep going on and on to the point where they really believe that their LBS was the sole person responsible for their unhappiness. That's when you draw the line and say "enough is enough".
That's where your W's mixed messages come in. She's not necessarily cake eating on purpose, she is doing what she feels is comfortable. In this case, she's just doing the physical stuff because she feels sorry for you. Is that what you want? Pity? Of course not. That's why GALing is so important because it lets you get back the confidence you thought was once long gone.
"One thing I'm struggling a little with is on Monday we're suppose to go to the "Children of Divorce" seminar. "
Why are you even going to this? You aren't even D yet. Is this something to deter D or to show you how to deal with kids after a D?
Was this your idea or your W's?
Since she filed, this is a required court ordered seminar for everyone who files for divorce
I'm concerned its a "kids will be ok" type of seminar. I hope its covers the true impact to kids
I really think she rushed the D process. That's another way she's not thinking about YOUR needs. Just do what makes you feel comfortable. If you don't want to go with her, then don't.
I would even tell her how much you don't want to go. And then that's it. Cut down the chumminess with her.
"She hasn't been maintaining an amicable relationship. She is only doing certain things that and when she feels comfortable doing. When you want to do something, she flies off the handle. Look at how she handled telling your kids about the D. For the WAW's it's not mean/angry. It's called selfishness. See it for what it is.
Nicely put Stuck.
"She hasn't been maintaining an amicable relationship. She is only doing certain things that and when she feels comfortable doing. When you want to do something, she flies off the handle. Look at how she handled telling your kids about the D. For the WAW's it's not mean/angry. It's called selfishness. See it for what it is.
Nicely put Stuck.
I agree Stuck
Ironically early on in this nightmare/rollercoaster one of her friends called her selfish and she really got upset
Maybe I should tactfully remind her of that the next time I get a chance
Yes...tactfully.
Saying it now would just set her off. But that's where you gently reminder that all this is a result of what she wants.
It was another quiet evening. We had dinner and we chatted about non-relationship topics.
She wound up asking for a hug to crack her back again. I gave it to her with no fanfare nor comment as my 3 year old was right there
After we put the kids to bed, we watched a couple of our shows (I noticed she moved the Lost DVDs already)
We talked about various non-relationship topics again. She talked about how one of her friends is having a lot of problems with her ex-husband.
In between the 2 shows I asked if she needed me to write down how much taxes were so she could write me a check. She said yes so I did.
I think this bothered her a bit as she became slightly less talkative.
At the end of the show, she said she was going to bed (9:30)
So goes another nite
I've been reading more of the Love without Hurt book. I'm up to page 240. It's pretty scary how it really walks through the craziness I went through. I didn't realize my emotional insecurities made me hurt my wife so much.
I know there were things that I did or didn't do that hurt her. But I see how my controlling behavior driven by my own core hurt really drove a stake through her as well. I'm still struggling with compassion. I read it but just have a problem putting it into practice.
I'm tempted to suggest it as a read for my wife. The why isn't just for myself, but the first half of the book could help her. Is that just dumb? Would that be pursuing?
A some what quiet morning. My 3 year old had another accident last nite at 1AM. My wife came out of the spare bedrrom and helped. She said she couldn't fall asleep for 3 hours afterwards. Plus she got her period in the middle of the nite
She asked me to pick up the boys from school tomorrow so she could pick up the truck. I said I should be able to.
I told her I wrote the tax amounts down for her. She thanked me
Talk about 2 people faking it
Anyway, our oldest was grumpy this morning. We joked/laughed about it this morning in the bathroom. She bumped my bottom wih hers playfully a few times. Very odd. Didn't get it nor did I care
So goes another morning
I've been reading more of the Love without Hurt book. I'm up to page 240. It's pretty scary how it really walks through the craziness I went through. I didn't realize my emotional insecurities made me hurt my wife so much.
I know there were things that I did or didn't do that hurt her. But I see how my controlling behavior driven by my own core hurt really drove a stake through her as well. I'm still struggling with compassion. I read it but just have a problem putting it into practice.
I'm tempted to suggest it as a read for my wife. The why isn't just for myself, but the first half of the book could help her. Is that just dumb? Would that be pursuing?
I wouldn't suggest she read any books right now. You keep reading 'em though...and DB'n. She's in a different place right now. Work on you, and try to get stronger. You have an advantage over many of us in that, you had access to all of this good information about DB'n 'before' you're wife moved out! Take advantage of it. Most of us made nothing but mistakes for quite awhile after the separations were announced.
It was an awkward evening
My wife was really in a bad mood from work and my youngest gave her a really hard time when she picked him up.
She vented for about 30 minutes while I made dinner. I listened and validated her. When dinner was ready I got us each a beer. The boys and us had a good dinner, we went out for ice cream for dessert. When I gave the boys a bath, my wife fell asleep on the couch
She woke up in time to tuck the kids in bed. She went to bed as well (8:30 ACK!)
I paid some bills. I was annoyed that she didn't pay a couple of bills from March. I just paid them and moved on
I went to the den to do some suring on the web when my wife came down at 9:15. She said she woke up and couldn't fall back to sleep. She said she was going to watch TV. I asked if she wanted to watch one of our shows. She said that would be fine
She then said there was a funny email she wanted to show me. She showed it to me and as we went to the family room I asked her about the past due bills from Mar (its very unlike her). She said she thinks she removed the auto-payment out of her account so it may have been a timing issue. Then I asked her about the check for the taxes and she said she would give it to me this weekend
We watched our shows without really chatting much. She knew I was going to see my therapist tomorrow so I asked if she was still planning on going on the following Mon so I would make the appointment later. She said she would let me know as that was the nite she had the boys.
An odd thing about tonite though was how during dinner she complained about how the music was too loud. I joke about how perhaps she's depressed. My therpist/our counselor had commented about how when I was depressed I did not want music on as it was too much input for me to deal with. She was really urked about the joke/comment and said don't even joke about that as its not funny
It was a very strong reaction.... Maybe I'll ask my therapist about it tomorrow
Not much activity this morning.
We got ready for work as normal. My eyes were really dry this morning.
My wife said it could have either been from allergies or if I was upset (i.e. crying)
I told her that I'm not happy about what's going on, but was not upset. I had thought about getting into again that I feel this is her decision, but figure she knew that already. She know's my feelings haven't changed.
She's going to pick up the U-Haul truck tonite and move tomorrow. So it's just going to be me and the boys for dinner tonite. Guess I need to get used to that.
I have a therapist appointment later this afternoon but am at a loss of what to talk about.
I feel that my wife and I have gotten further disconnected over the past week. Not a good sign in my mind.
Perhaps it's more that I've finally gotten detached to the point where my wife had been the last several months. Who knows. All I know is that the knot in my stomach seems to be less and less each week.
I don't know if there is anything to talk about with my wife tonite. I feel like I should talk about something since it will be her last nite in our family home - hopefully not forever. There isn't anything new to talk about. She knows how I feel. Perhaps I should talk about what our new interactions will be? If any?
Any thoughts or how did others handle the nite before the WAW moved out?
Yeah...give her the space that she needs. Carry on with your kids as usual. If she wants to talk, then talk. If she wants to talk about the marriage, then I'd just listen and validate. It doesn't mean that you agree. You're right...she knows that you love her and that you don't want this...believe me, she already knows this. You don't need to remind her of it anymore. She's gotta get away from you before she can start to heal. I know this from experience. You're gonna have to be patient, patient, and then be more patient. It's hard for us to understand...but there's a method to the madness. You probably don't feel that you can do this (living and carrying on activities of daily living without her being there)...but you can. I know. There's a lot for us to learn...and persevere. Let's do it!
Don't do what I did. The night before my W moved out I laid the guilt on thick and really tried to get her to reconsider, basically begged and pleaded with her to stay, said it wasn't too late, asked her to consider what it would do to the kids, etc.
This was 3 months before I found DB, DR and this site, so I was operating completely out of fear and doing the wrong things.
Follow antlers' advice and give her the space she needs - the sooner you do that the sooner she will be able to heal and think more clearly. It's the hardest thing you will probably ever have to endure, but the only way out is through. My prayers are with you.
I wasn't going to go the "please stay" route.
But more of how I'll be respecting the space and boundaries and that I don't want her to interprut that my lack of "pursuing" as that my feelings have changed.
I wasn't sure if I really need to have the conversation as we had talked about this last week where she said that I don't/shouldn't not just wait for her to take the initiative for us to do things together while I'm giving her space. She said that if I have something special planned with the boys, I could invite her. Not guilt/pressure her to go, but just invite her. I had asked how about if there was something just for us, but she said that she would have to think about that (I'm interprutting that as a no). Just as I'm interprutting her thining about going to counseling every other week as a no.
I'm eriely at peace with what's going on right now. I'm more concerned right now of the financial end of it - making sure that I can pay all the bills (particularly since I just had to pay my tax bill which was just shy of 5 figures).
Right now I'm at the point where if she comes back, that will be great, if not, I'm sure I will figure out a way to get everything to work. Not sure if this is detachment or that I'm giving up or it's just that I've finally realized what the reality is.....
I really have to understand what is going on with me...
Just be patient. Once she gets her freedom she will start to figure stuff out. If it's too late then you will have your answer. The grass is definitely not as green as she is hoping. Especially in regard to not seeing the children everyday.
Stay strong, B
I appreciate everyone who has dropped by to offer encouragement/advise. It's really hard for me to sit and wait. That is so contrary to my nature. I'm the typical "MUST FIX" mindset. I know I can't fix the marriage, my wife or the relationship right now. I know I must focus on fixing myself.
Problem is what do I fix as I don't know what I want it to be.
It's like what my therapist/marriage counselor asked me - what do I want to talk about if/when my wife comes to another session.
I don't know. I know the outcome I want is to save the marriage, but don't know how to achieve that outcome directly. The only thing I can do is work on me so I'm really trying to understand me.
Feelings are always such scary things for me as they have brought nothing but pain. It has been so long since I've shut them down that I don't know what they are. I shut them down back when I was 12 due to the situation I was in (growing up in the projects). I thought they were opened back up when I met my wife, but they got shut back down after when my depression sunk in (according to my therapist).
Now that I've been snapped out of my depression, I don't know what to do....
So confusing....
So painful....
I must focus on me and make sure I improve to be the best man, friend, father and hopefully husband I can be
Survive and thrive. That's what I need to focus on....
Feelings are always such scary things for me as they have brought nothing but pain. It has been so long since I've shut them down that I don't know what they are. I shut them down back when I was 12 due to the situation I was in (growing up in the projects). I thought they were opened back up when I met my wife, but they got shut back down after when my depression sunk in (according to my therapist).
Here is where you need to do some work. You are applying coping techniques that you used as a boy to the same situations you are running into as a man. You need to change some of your thinking. Did you ever get "Learned Optimism" ? I promise it will help you.
Here is where you need to do some work. You are applying coping techniques that you used as a boy to the same situations you are running into as a man. You need to change some of your thinking. Did you ever get "Learned Optimism" ? I promise it will help you.
Yes I did get the Learned Optimism book. I hadn't read it yet as I'm still reading Love without Hurt (I'm up to page 250). Since my wife had commentewd about how it seemed I was just following scripts from books, I had only been reading after she went to bed.
Dealing the emotions isn't even the problem yet, recognizing what the emotions are is the issue I'm dealing with
I was talking to my friend who is a current WAW (she moved out almost 5 months ago). Her situation has similarities to mine as to how her husband made her feel neglected/unimportant. She is of the mindset that once a window of opportunity is closed, it is closed.
One thing that she has pointed out was how she could never have done some of the things that my wife had been doing that is so confusing to me. Her advice to me is to give it 3 to 6 months before talking about starting/trying a relationship.
She said when she moved out she was relieved that she escaped. That was because she felt her husband would stop her if he had a chance. I'm hoping my wife doesn't feel that way in my situation. I hadn't helped, and perhaps the door wasn't as open as she would have liked. Granted, her move isn't going smoothly (ie her movers didn't show up on Mon) but she can't blame that on me
I do want to have a marriage with my wife. Not want we had but one that is better. I understand now that's what she had been trying to tell me when she brought up counseling a couple of years ago. I didn't see the issues back then. I do now. My wife says I just see part of it and has a lot to learn. I know she is right
The only part I figured out was the love languages part. I don't understand the compassion part but I'm working on it
recognizing what the emotions are is the issue I'm dealing with
I can relate to that. That is "Emotional Intelligence." Were you told how to feel as a kid? Or did you put on a "mask" to hide your feelings?
The Coach self-help library is vast. Spent lot's of time trying to understand my own feelings and frustrations. I am still a WIP. Sounds like you are doing some work on yourself. Keep it up.
Cheers
"Since my wife had commentewd about how it seemed I was just following scripts from books, I had only been reading after she went to bed. "
Why should you hide this? You're doing it to make yourself a better person. Your W is not. Don't let her be ashamed of what you're doing. Our WAWs constantly say that they are doing what's best by leaving. But are they really? The LBS is the one who actively looks for answers and C, etc. We are the ones who are getting better by facing the problem head on and not running away. Don't be ashamed of that. If she comments, shrug it off. You don't have to let her affect you like that. She might even be ashamed of what she's doing and just needed a way to belittle your efforts so she leaves guilt-free.
"My wife says I just see part of it and has a lot to learn."
She's got alot to learn too. Any one who claims to be hanging on to so much "anger" for so long after trying things on their own has alot to learn themselves. Running away is never the answer.
"She said when she moved out she was relieved that she escaped. That was because she felt her husband would stop her if he had a chance."
That's exactly what this behavior is. Escaping. Running away rather than facing the issue because that's the easier way out. You can see how even she is blaming the H. A breakup is always the fault of both parties. Never one. That's why both people need to be honest about their roles and deal with it head-on.
Surrender and running away is never an option.
It was another odd day. Guess i should have figured it would have been like every other day
I had a good session with my therapist as she's really pressing me to understand boundaries and my feelings
I went to pick up my youngest as my wife had said she was picking up the truck tonite and we were on our own for dinner. She called to say she was going to be home so she could join us for dinner
I picked up both boys early so I took them to the park before we went home. They were playing when I realized I missed a call from my wife. I called her back and she answered from the bathroom. She joked about how she was half naked and talking on the phone. I jokingly asked for a pic. She sent it to me of her naked rear end.
When we got home we went out for dinner and grabbed ice cream
After we put the kids to bed, we watched some TV. She started talking about her move tomorrow and I wound up telling her that I was annoyed/irritated that she was moving out. She said she understands and can see how I feel that way.
I asked her how she was feeling/thinking. She said that she's not happy about it either but feels she needs to in order to deal with everything that's gone on. I repeated it and said that I need to think about that so I can be sure to understand it
In hind site, the compassionate thing to say would have been "I see how you are still hurting. I know it will take time to heal so you can trust again. I will do everything that I can to help you heal so that we can rebuild that trust." Maybe I'll try to work that in tomorrow
She did write me a check for her share of the tax bill
We watched 3 shows so she was up till 10PM.
Before she went up, she asked for a hug to crack her back. I gave her one and said good nite
She moves tomorrow. Not sure if she's staying at her apt tomorrow. Guess I'll find out
I'm going to take the boys out for the day. We have soccer and then we're going furniture shopping to replace the playroom furniture she's taking
Its going to be a tough day but I will survive and thrive
Thanks for everyone's support and advice
It was an odd nite. She had a bad dream last nite and asked if I could hold her in our bed. I said yes and we held each other as she lay her head on my chest. She started to talk about her nightmare.
After I woke up a little more I told her "This is odd You are leaving me but yet we are holding each other in bed". She said sorry. I also told her that I thought more about what she said she was feeling about the separation. I told her that I see she's still hurting and needs to heal. I understand that we can't start to rebuild trust before she heals. She said that she never thought we would ever be at this point. I just said that this was a bad situation but its within our power to change it. Its up to her as this is her decision
I must have started to doze off again because suddenly she was gone
We woke up and had breakfast together. She had offered to make breakfast but I told her thanks, but I got it.
I made pancakes. She ran out after breakfast to get the truck with her mom.
She asked me to crack her back. I foolishly did. She didn't let go and started to cry. I reminded her that where we go is entirely her decision. She knows how I feel and I know she feels she needs to heal. I told her that if she ever wants to talk about us, she can call me. Outside of discussions about the kids, I will not initiate any contact. Not because I've changed how I feel, out of respect for her boundaries. She kept crying. It's the most emotional I've seen her about this in a while. I tried to hold it together but the sight of her crying caused me to tear up. I did remind her this is not what I wanted, but it's what she feels she needs to do.
I tried to get the boys out to soccer before the movers showed up but we were just a couple of minutes late leaving. I saw my 7 year old tear up a little when he saw the movers backing the UHaul truck up to the driveway.
She text me when she had left with the movers. I didn't respond.
She called me during lunch to ask if she could go back to get some of her bath stuff that she left behind. I told her it was ok and left it at that.
She then text me when she was done. She is coming back tonite after the kids go to bed so we can split up the kids toys. It's going to be a sad nite for me/us. I will try to remain strong but I know it will be hard.
When I got home, it was odd to see the dining room completely empty and all the basement furniture and her excercise equipment gone. She also took my copy of Divorce Busting and a picture of the two of us before we were married that I had found earlier this week and put up in the family room. As someone had pointed out earlier, it's a good sign that she takes things of us, it's bad if she left everything that reminded her of us.
I don't know if I actually miss her yet or am more numb or actually a little mad about the entire situation.
On the way back from furniture shopping, my 7 year old did vent about why did mommy have to rent an apartment and when is she coming back. It sounded like he was getting mad/sad/frustrated. I told him that it wasn't what I wanted either but mommy and daddy are working through some issues. I think I am most sad for my kids.....
It'll be interesting to see how your wife handles her apartment, with no one to snuggle with after a bad dream, and no one to crack her back, etc.
If I were you, I'd stop that stuff - if she wants to be alone, let her be alone.
Just my $.02.
She also took my copy of Divorce Busting and a picture of the two of us before we were married that I had found earlier this week and put up in the family room. As someone had pointed out earlier, it's a good sign that she takes things of us, it's bad if she left everything that reminded her of us.
She didn't take my DR book. She moved it to the sitting room. She also didn't take the picture. She had taken a minature of the Empire State Building (I proposed to her ther) and moved the picture over to there.
I just got a text from her saying "Just got back...i m going to eat real quick cuz i did not have any dinner yet then i will check if the kids r in bed and come for the toys" it was at 8:45PM
I'm wondering what she was doing till then but I know its none of my business anymore
I really don't want her to come back to split up the toys. Its just going to add to my hurt.
She is going to pick up the kids tomorrow. My mom and aunt are coming for a few days starting tomorrow.
So the separation starts
I'm still confused and the devastation is setting back in
When I put my boys to bed, they both prayed that mommy would come back home. It was sad
I'm working on me but I also need to be strong for my boys and help them
recognizing what the emotions are is the issue I'm dealing with
I can relate to that. That is "Emotional Intelligence." Were you told how to feel as a kid? Or did you put on a "mask" to hide your feelings?
The Coach self-help library is vast. Spent lot's of time trying to understand my own feelings and frustrations. I am still a WIP. Sounds like you are doing some work on yourself. Keep it up.
Cheers
Right now the feeling I'm struggling with is to understand what do I feel about my wife. My therapist had asked me what do I love about my wife. To be frank, right now, there isn't much. She really has changed from the loving, caring person into someone who is very selfish. Perhaps this is where compassion needs to come in, to understand what the other person is feeling.
If I can believe what she says, that she's still hurting. It must be an incredible hurt to be willing to destroy everything that we built up as a family. She says she knows that the logical thing had been to stay together for the kids, but she says that she couldn't do it as she was "too tired" or "didn't have enough energy" to keep trying. I can definitely relate as I do feel the pain she had gone through . For her she said it was years, and I've gone through it since Jan and I am tired as well. It is painful to be constantly rejected by the person you love. That is what she said she felt. That's what I've been going through. This is the core hurt that "Love without Hurt" talked about, that the rejection makes you feel unloveable.
I think that was part of my issue - I've always said that I was a tough person to love. I guess that was my way of expressing tha I felt unloveable. That's where my jealousy or fear of losing her took over and drove my controlling behavior that controlled her right out the door.
She was suppose to come over tonite after the kids went to bed to split up some of their toys. She called me and text me a few times, but my youngest wouldn't go to bed. He finally fell asleep around 9:45 PM. I called her to let her know at 10:15, but at that point, she had fallen asleep.
In a way, I'm relieved not to have to deal with it tonite (I really didn't want to see her), but know that this is going to cause more drama in the morning.
Oh well, so starts nite 1 of the seperation.....
My boys woke up around 6:30. I went into their room and I could both seemed a little down. My 7 year old said he wanted me to go to mommy's place as well. I said I couldn't. My 3 year old started to cry saying he wanted to stay with me. It was sad but I knew I had to be strong for them
I got them dressed and then had them collect some toys for them to take with them. They seemed ok by the time my wife came to pick then up.
We chatted lightly about the kids. Then she packed up the kids stuff. I got hugs from the boys and said I would see them Thurs. As they drove away in the car, I waved to them from the driveway and could see my oldest tearing up.
Oddly, I was only really upset for about 5 minutes once I got inside. I thought about crying it out but it was over very quickly. I thought it would have been harder. Maybe it is really over. Maybe I'm getting depressed again where I'm shutting down my emotions. Maybe I'm just numb from it hurting so much for so long. I don't know
I will be going to church this morning. First time in years where I went 2 weeks in a row
I will be praying for strength and wisdom to survive this situation
It hurts and I'm mad...
My aunt and mom came over to help me through the first few days. First time I've seen my mom for more than just 4-5 hours in over 20 years. Hope it doesn't turn out to be a mistake ;-p
I'm really missing my boys but not my wife. Funny, that's what my wife said when I got back from CT with the boys about 4 weeks ago. She missed the boys but not me. It hurt when she said it to me, but I can see that it's hard to miss someone you are mad at.
She and I are suppose to go to the "court mandated" Children of Divorce seminar. I still haven't decided if we're going to ride together or not. My wife did ask me to let her know the details tomorrow (i.e. is she going to pick me up or are we going to meet somewhere or what).
Anyone with any thoughts? Should we ride down together?
That's exactly what this behavior is. Escaping. Running away rather than facing the issue because that's the easier way out. You can see how even she is blaming the H. A breakup is always the fault of both parties. Never one. That's why both people need to be honest about their roles and deal with it head-on.
Surrender and running away is never an option.
That's the thing, I don't think my wife sees her role in what brought us to this point. She keeps saying that she did everything she could to try and get through to me and she just gave up.
Not sure what else there is to do right now other than go DIM.
She would up calling me while I was at church. I thought she knew I was at church and thought there was a problem with the kids so stupid me picked it up. She heard that I was at church (I picked up and walked out into the hallway) and appologized. It was some trivial thing about a spray that my oldest was looking for last nite.
Oh well, whatever.
I really miss my kids. I am mad that my wife has done this. Tough issues to deal with right now while I want to save my marriage.
Hi thee onfusedinpa
This is a difficult call for you.
Best and prayers for you and yours...
GFI
I'm really sorry you are hurting. It must be a very rough time for you.
I think it would be good for you and your wife to ride together to the seminar. This is something you both have to do and the focus is on working cooperatively as parents. That's a good thing. I think riding together is a symbolic gesture that you intend to work together to be good parents to your kids.
(((hugs)))
I decided that my wife and I would go together to the seminar. Not sure why.
She had called me last nite as the kids wanted to say good nite to me. She said that she would call me later to talk about going together. I said rather calling me back, i told her that we could and she could pick me up if that works for her. She said it did
Its odd as since she moved out we talked/text very little and only when it was related to the kids stuff and this seminar. I guess this is Dark/Dim. I'm planning on waiting 2 weeks and then move towards Dim as I think I'm too close to Dark.
When I mean Dim, during the Sun AM tranistion ask how she is doing. Or should I not wait that long?
I stopped asking how she was doing because she never asked about me. We just talk about our daughter. Once her mind is made up all you can do is give her space and time to figure out if she can forgive and move on. Just take care of yourself and let her initiate convo's. Is my 2 cents.
Good Luck. B
Just do what's the most comfortable for you. When I first separated, I absolutely hated my W for all the pain she was having me and our daughters go through.
I went through the whole range of emotions. From missing her so much it was practically eating away at me, to hating her guts. Over time, my emotions leveled off and I felt comfortable enough to engage her in friendly conversation. As time went on, I was able to start asking her out to do things as a family. Then one on one.
This took a period of months and not just days. So that's why when I say you have to be dedicated to see this through...you really have to be.
You have to have the patience of a frickin' saint sometimes, but you take it one day at a time. Before you know it, the days become weeks, the weeks become months, etc.
But all that time, I kept things as light as possible even the days I absolutely despised her. All this while staying DIM.
It's still very confusing - curious what people's thoughts are on the latest.
She picked me up a little after 8 for us to go down to the Children of Divorce Seminar. We stopped at a drive through to pick up breakfast. She unwrapped my sandwich for me as I was driving and handed it to me, just like she always did.
We drove down and chatted about the kids and other light topics. We got there and I sat down first. She sat next to me. We were the only ones who came together. All the other spouses were going seperated as one was attending the morning session and the other was attending the afternoon session.
She started to cry and the seminar started about the impact to the emotional, educational and overall development of the kids. I gave her a tissue.
After the seminar, we went out to lunch together. We chatted lightly and she asked me a question about a conversation we had Sat morning. She was concerned as she thought she heard me say "I was annoyed that she was still feeling hurt". I told her told her that I was annoyed that she was hurt by what happened in the past. I was also annoyed that since she's still hurt now, that I felt that we weren't really giving us a chance since we both see that there is a problem to work on.
She then challenged whatI thought all the counseling last year was about. I reminded her that the majority of the sessions I always said I didn't know why we were here as I loved her and was happy so I don't know what the problem is. Now I understand what the issue is and am working on me so that we can work on it. She said that she felt that I was not as developed as her emotionally. She said I was like a 12 year old emotionally. I was a little urked about that but kept my composure and just said that I'm working on me to learn and develop that and will continue to do so for me. Not for her, nor to save the marriage, but for me as I know that will make me a better person and father.
She said that she still wasn't sure about going to counseling. I told her that I am going to leave it up to her as I want her to go for her, not because of me. She said that she didn't want to go on her day with the kids but was going to see what she could work out with her mom to watch the kids. I told her just let me know as I would be going with or without her.
We talked about various light topics after that and she dropped me back off at home.
Hard to tell, I know it's only day 2 of the separation, but can't tell if there is still any hope left to hold on to....
I told her told her that I was annoyed that she was hurt by what happened in the past. I was also annoyed that since she's still hurt now, . . . that I felt that we weren't really giving us a chance since we both see that there is a problem to work on.
As long as you feel annoyed that she was hurt by your behavior, rather than caring about how hurt she was, there probably is no hope. As long as you are annoyed that she isn't over it yet, you are pouring salt in her wounds.
If you can get to a place where you no longer are impatient for her to heal so
you can feel better, and can accept that you hurt her deeply and that it will take a long, long time for that hurt to heal, . . . then, you might have a chance.
She then challenged whatI thought all the counseling last year was about. I reminded her that the majority of the sessions I always said I didn't know why we were here as I loved her and was happy so I don't know what the problem is. . .
I don't think that helps your case. You were happy, so even though your wife wanted to go to marriage counseling you still didn't get that she was not happy and that there was a problem until she filed for divorce.
In a marriage, it's not all about
you. If you want your wife back, it needs to be all about
her for a while.
If you can get to a place where you no longer are impatient for her to heal so you can feel better, and can accept that you hurt her deeply and that it will take a long, long time for that hurt to heal, . . . then, you might have a chance.
In a marriage, it's not all about you. If you want your wife back, it needs to be all about her for a while.
'This' is something that many of us need to remember. Thanks.
"She said that she felt that I was not as developed as her emotionally."
This is a great big NO! She is the one who has not developed. Who is the one who is still "angry" and can't get over her anger and hurt? She is the one who is not as developed and is projecting those doubts onto you. It's very common.
Remember the times that you called her on it and she backed down? Sometimes our WAWs need a dose of reality to show them that the problems are in them sometimes. But they are afraid and its easier to blame someone else than look inwards.
Why would she even bring it up today of all days? It's because she feels guilty about everything she's doing so to alleviate the pain, she blames you.
Let me put it to you this way. You've given her everything she asked for and she still blames you. She's the one who's been giving off the mixed signals which is throwing you off and jerking your emotions around.
Stand strong and let her do her own thing, but DO NOT take everything she tells you. When many of us did that our spouses actually started respecting us again and started actually listening.
Let's face it, you haven't been taking care of your own needs just hers and she's stepping all over you or jumping on the pity train, remember? You have to have her realize that this is a result of what SHE is doing.
As long as you feel annoyed that she was hurt by your behavior, rather than caring about how hurt she was, there probably is no hope. As long as you are annoyed that she isn't over it yet, you are pouring salt in her wounds.
If you can get to a place where you no longer are impatient for her to heal so you can feel better, and can accept that you hurt her deeply and that it will take a long, long time for that hurt to heal, . . . then, you might have a chance.
I don't think that helps your case. You were happy, so even though your wife wanted to go to marriage counseling you still didn't get that she was not happy and that there was a problem until she filed for divorce.
In a marriage, it's not all about you. If you want your wife back, it needs to be all about her for a while.
I must really be bad at communication. That was my wife's exact read on the original conversation as well. I had tried to explain what I meant to her yesterday so hopefully I got my point accross there. Seems like I didn't get it accross in my post either.
What I was trying to say was that I was annoyed about the overall situation. I wasn't annoyed at her being hurt but the entire circumstance where she got hurt and the fact that she was hurt (not because she's feeling hurt). I told her that I always loved her and was trying to do everything to make her happy, but didn't know that she was being hurt. I was also annoyed how now I understand the problem and its severity where before I didn't know what the problem was and its severity so I didn't even know what we were working on. Now that I know and understanding it better everyday, I am able to work on it and because she is still hurting, she isn't ready to do the same. I told her that until she is, I will just continue to work on me.
Does that make sense then?
Do you think I should make sure my wife understands what I was trying to say?
"She said that she felt that I was not as developed as her emotionally."
This is a great big NO! She is the one who has not developed. Who is the one who is still "angry" and can't get over her anger and hurt? She is the one who is not as developed and is projecting those doubts onto you. It's very common.
Remember the times that you called her on it and she backed down? Sometimes our WAWs need a dose of reality to show them that the problems are in them sometimes. But they are afraid and its easier to blame someone else than look inwards.
Why would she even bring it up today of all days? It's because she feels guilty about everything she's doing so to alleviate the pain, she blames you.
Let me put it to you this way. You've given her everything she asked for and she still blames you. She's the one who's been giving off the mixed signals which is throwing you off and jerking your emotions around.
Stand strong and let her do her own thing, but DO NOT take everything she tells you. When many of us did that our spouses actually started respecting us again and started actually listening.
Let's face it, you haven't been taking care of your own needs just hers and she's stepping all over you or jumping on the pity train, remember? You have to have her realize that this is a result of what SHE is doing.
I've reminded her in almost every conversation that this is her decision as to what she feels she needs. I've told her that it's not what I want and I am ready to work on it but can't until she decides.
It's a good point about her "I was not as developed as her emotionally". I should have asked her for examples as I didn't fully understand what she meant.
She did bring up her need to see a therapist/counselor to work through her issues when we talked aboout going/scheduling counseling again. So I think that's a sign she's thinking about it. I just hope she actually does it....
I had an interesting conversation with one of my friends. He's a non-DB guy, but he is a close friend and I do respect his thoughts/opinions.
I hadn't talked to him in a couple of weeks as he's been busy at work (late hours as well as traveling).
I brought him up to speed and he offered a couple of thoughts/opinions and I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are on what he said:
With respect to helping her move, I had told him how I told her that I didn't want her to leave and it really hurt to see her go. I do love her enough that I wanted her to feel free to do what she felt she needed to do so I wasn't going to stand in her way. I didn't want to help her leave as it would be hurtful to me, but since I love her so much, I would if she really wanted me to. She had said yes and asked me to take apart a bookcase and help split up the kids books/toys. Which I did (albeit without a lot of enthusiasm).
I also told him how I told her that I will be respecting her need for time and space/boundaries. Outside of talking about the kids, I was not going to text/email/call her. I would wait for her to take the initiative. She said that I didn't have to do that as if there was something special going on with the kids I should invite her - not pressure or guilt her, but just invite her. I asked how about something just for the 2 of us. She said she would have to think about that.
My friend offered the following thought/comment:
He said that if it was him, he would approach it as that he was now trying to date/woo someone who is being pursued by 3 other guys. If that's the case, he would want to make sure that he is the one that she can count on if she needs anything, especially when the "chips" are down. So he said that he would have done alot more to help her move. And he would also make sure that she knew that he was interested and that she was his "top priority".
Interestingly enough, that was how I "won" my wife's heart in the beginning.
But this is so anti-DB/Mr. Nice Guy.
So let the debate begin.
Go Dark/Dim or go into full "woo" mood?
I really think you need to start with the Dark/Dim first. Give her some time to be on her own so she knows what it's like. If you go into "woo" mode right now it's just going to come across as pressuring her, imo.
Now I understand what the issue is and am working on me so that we can work on it.
What is the issue?
You are working on you for yourself.
She said that she felt that I was not as developed as her emotionally. She said I was like a 12 year old emotionally
She feels like she is "mothering" you. Not attractive to a female. She doesn't need another child she needs her man, partner, friend, lover and husband. Note I didn't say you were a emotional 12 yr old but your W "feels" that way. Change her feelings about that.
I really think you need to start with the Dark/Dim first. Give her some time to be on her own so she knows what it's like. If you go into "woo" mode right now it's just going to come across as pressuring her, imo.
I was leaning towards the Dark/Dim mode first.
She called me a couple of times this morning (tactical stuff - i.e. mortgage info and baseball schedule for my 3 year old).
She had mentioned how she wasn't sure about going to counseling together when it was on her night with the kids (Mondays). I told her that I would be willing to give work with her so she didn't feel like she was losing any time with the kids if that was an issue. She said she appreciated that but right now felt she needed time to get into the new routine and as well as wanted to find/talk to her own therapist/counselor before she started going to counseling again. I told her that I wasn't trying to pressure her, only to address what I heard was a concern for her. I told her going to counseling was still up to to her and I would leave it as her decision.
I also made sure that she understood that I wasn't annoyed that she felt hurt, I was annoyed about the whole situation. I do know that she feels she is hurt and needs time and space to heal.
So starts day 3...
Thanks for checking in....
Now I understand what the issue is and am working on me so that we can work on it.
What is the issue?
You are working on you for yourself.
The issue between us was/is communication. Both of us would try and jump into each other's mind and assume how/what each of us felt and thought. This lead to many wrong assumptions. On my side I thought I was doing everything that she wanted and on her side she felt she told me enough for me to realize what she wanted.
A clear example is how she wanted me to get up earlier on the weekends (during the week I was leaving for work at 4:30 AM so I was sleeping in until 11 - noon on the weekends). She said she would tell me that she wanted me to get up earlier. I would then tell her that I would get up an hour earlier and she would say that would be better. I would get up earlier and after 2-3 months, she would complain again. I would get up an hour earlier and she would again say that would be better. Then the cycle would repeat. Apparently, every weekend she would be resentful/angry in the mornings until I got up.
In hindsight, when she brought up the issue, either I should have asked what time she wanted me to get up or she should have said an hour earlier is not good enough and that she wanted me to get up at 6:30 AM with the boys like she was. This is where we both owned the problem of communication.
Because she didn't feel that her needs were met, she felt unloved/unlovable, unimportant, etc. This lead to her resentment and anger.
She said that she felt that I was not as developed as her emotionally. She said I was like a 12 year old emotionally
She feels like she is "mothering" you. Not attractive to a female. She doesn't need another child she needs her man, partner, friend, lover and husband. Note I didn't say you were a emotional 12 yr old but your W "feels" that way. Change her feelings about that.
She had said that in the past, where she felt that she had 3 boys in the house. I didn't understand what that meant until now. Oddly, in the "Love without Hurt" book, it talks about how the things that attracted her originally wind up being the very things that hurt her as resentment/anger builds up. Some of the things she "liked" about me was that I was playful, funny, ambitous, take charge type of guy. She thought I was very stable and would make a good father. So now, when I'm playful with my kids, she thought I was being childish. As I was ambitious and actively pursued my career to the point where I more than doubled my income in the last 5 years, she felt the job was more important than her. When I would take charge, she now feels I was controlling and not including her in the decisions.
So these are the things I'm aware of now. I need to still be those things, but also be aware of when it triggers hurt to her core value and not let it build into resentment, as well as not hurt her core valuse to begin with....
So much to learn....
Great book, for me! I can tell by your post that you've read it. I hope it helps you as much as it is helping me. I'm really learning from it.
Great book, for me! I can tell by your post that you've read it. I hope it helps you as much as it is helping me. I'm really learning from it.
I'm not done with it yet, about 90% of the way through. My approach was to read it through first and then go through the excercise/worksheet.
Before my wife left, when she brought up taking the space and time to find a therapist/counselor as well as do some reading, I did show her the book and told her that it was helping me understand some of the things/issues. I suggested that she may find it helpful as the first half was talking about how the wife felt. She said that when I was finished with it that she may like to borrow it. I was thinking about just getting her a copy as this seemed like a book that I was going to work with for a while...
I had an interesting conversation with one of my friends. He's a non-DB guy, but he is a close friend and I do respect his thoughts/opinions.
I hadn't talked to him in a couple of weeks as he's been busy at work (late hours as well as traveling).
I brought him up to speed and he offered a couple of thoughts/opinions and I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are on what he said:
With respect to helping her move, I had told him how I told her that I didn't want her to leave and it really hurt to see her go. I do love her enough that I wanted her to feel free to do what she felt she needed to do so I wasn't going to stand in her way. I didn't want to help her leave as it would be hurtful to me, but since I love her so much, I would if she really wanted me to. She had said yes and asked me to take apart a bookcase and help split up the kids books/toys. Which I did (albeit without a lot of enthusiasm).
I also told him how I told her that I will be respecting her need for time and space/boundaries. Outside of talking about the kids, I was not going to text/email/call her. I would wait for her to take the initiative. She said that I didn't have to do that as if there was something special going on with the kids I should invite her - not pressure or guilt her, but just invite her. I asked how about something just for the 2 of us. She said she would have to think about that.
My friend offered the following thought/comment:
He said that if it was him, he would approach it as that he was now trying to date/woo someone who is being pursued by 3 other guys. If that's the case, he would want to make sure that he is the one that she can count on if she needs anything, especially when the "chips" are down. So he said that he would have done alot more to help her move. And he would also make sure that she knew that he was interested and that she was his "top priority".
Interestingly enough, that was how I "won" my wife's heart in the beginning.
But this is so anti-DB/Mr. Nice Guy.
So let the debate begin.
Go Dark/Dim or go into full "woo" mood?
Great book, for me! I can tell by your post that you've read it. I hope it helps you as much as it is helping me. I'm really learning from it.
I'm not done with it yet, about 90% of the way through. My approach was to read it through first and then go through the excercise/worksheet.
Before my wife left, when she brought up taking the space and time to find a therapist/counselor as well as do some reading, I did show her the book and told her that it was helping me understand some of the things/issues. I suggested that she may find it helpful as the first half was talking about how the wife felt. She said that when I was finished with it that she may like to borrow it. I was thinking about just getting her a copy as this seemed like a book that I was going to work with for a while...
If you think she'll be receptive to it...I'd get her a copy. Maybe some day my wife will be receptive to reading it. I know it'd help her to understand why I acted the way I did.
Go dim first, then when things get light enough between you two, do the wooing thing. But let her come to you rather than the other way around.
You have to attract her.
Go dim first, then when things get light enough between you two, do the wooing thing. But let her come to you rather than the other way around.
You have to attract her.
That was my original plan until I talked to my friend who brought up the wooing piece
Its tough for me to figure out when she's "coming to me" as she has continued what's she done over the past several weeks. She calls as well as sends me emails of jokes/humor
Figure I'll just play it Dim for a couple of weeks and see how it goes
Yes. You haven't even given her space yet.
My recommendation would be to wait at least one month before you entertain the thought of slowly interacting with her with the idea of trying to woo her.
Yes. You haven't even given her space yet.
My recommendation would be to wait at least one month before you entertain the thought of slowly interacting with her with the idea of trying to woo her.
I know that it's early and I haven't given her space yet. Our youngest starts baseball next week so I'll see her at least every other Weds - not sure if she's going to show up when it's not her Weds.
I'm sorta down tonite - the last 2 nites, the kids called me to say goodnite. It didn't happen today. She said that she had been asking them if they want to call. Hopefully she just didn't ask tonite and it's not that they said no.....
My mom and aunt are leaving during the day tomorrow so I'll be by myself tomorrow when I get home. It will be tough, but I do have my therapist appointment tomorrow afternoon. Perhaps I'll go to the gym tomorrow afterwards as well just so it won't be that early when I get home.
Plus I owe a couple of my friends some call back as they have left messages over the last couple of days, but since I've been with my mom and aunt, I haven't had time to call them back.
Plus I hope the Ipod Touch that I ordered shows up tomorrow so I can play with it tomorrow nite.
Hopefully that will be enough to kill the time and I won't be freaking out too much.....
Wish me luck!
For those times when you start to lose hope, I found a great podcast to help me.
Here is the info:
For that podcast, go to the itunes music store and search for
"first aid wounded marriage"
It's a free podcast from Marilynn Phillips that is great.
Just curious why didn't you just call the kids? I know its hard but you can do it. I've been in the S for a loooong time and it took me a looong time to realize it's best to give space. It's natural to feel down just don't let your W see it.
She never called last nite but emailed me a couple of times this morning of some local news that she knew I would be interested about. I commented that I had heard last nite and was going to mention it to her if she had called. She didn't comment on that
She did wind up asking how my visit with my mom and aunt was going. I hadn't responded yet
Is Dark/Dim response just "Ok" or should I give a little more detail that would be upbeat (ie Its going good. It was nice having my mom's cooking again as its been almost 10 years)
Just curious why didn't you just call the kids? I know its hard but you can do it. I've been in the S for a loooong time and it took me a looong time to realize it's best to give space. It's natural to feel down just don't let your W see it.
I'm not sure why I didn't call guess I didn't want it to be too disruptive in case she was trying to get them to go to bed nor did I want her to think I was checking up on her
Guess I could have called. It is so hard to decide what's the right thing to do
IMO some detail with your Mom would be ok that way you would sound or should sound upbeat and happy. Just don't take all her calls and try to be the first to end them.
If you know about when your kids are going to bed and they haven't called, call them, you don't HAVE to talk to your W if you do keep it short.
She actually wound up texting me about another tactical topic which I answered. She thanked me for the info
I hadn't answered her question about my mom and aunt's visit. What is everyones thoughts of and upbeat/positive answer and asking how she was doing or closing with hope all is well with her
I really want to call her but know I shouldn't. Its odd not hearing her voice at all today. I know she's not going to call me during the day today as she knows I'm at one of other plants so I'm pretty tied up.
My aunt and mom are leaving today so I will be home alone tonite. I will keep myself busy but will call my kids at bed time if she doesn't call
It was depressing on Mon nite when I said goodnite to my boys. My youngest asked how I was. I told him I was good and he asked if I was sad. I told him I missed him and loved him.
Do you call the boys at night to tell them goodnight?
They are your first priority right now. You're letting your W control your actions again. Despite how bad things were between my W and I, I always called to wish my kids goodnight. Even if I was out and about.
It' important to show them that you haven't abandoned them. When your W answers the phone, just tell her you want to wish the boys goodnight and don't engage her. If she talks to you, then fine, keep it light and very short as if you are too busy to talk to her. Then pour on the love when the boys are on.
Sometimes when I called from a bar, I would just tell my W that I was too busy to talk to her and just wanted to talk to the kids. I would make sure she could hear everything going on in the background.
Your W abandoned you. You didn't abandon your kids. Talk to them often and frequently. Not to your W.
Do you call the boys at night to tell them goodnight?
They are your first priority right now.
Your W abandoned you. You didn't abandon your kids. Talk to them often and frequently. Not to your W.
That's a good point. My wife had called me the first 2 nites to say good nite to the boys. I had waited last nite (the third nite) but by the time I realized she wasn't calling, it was too late to call
I'm not going to make that same mistake tonite
I suspect that they may have gotten upset after talking to me on Mon nite as my oldest sounded sad as did my youngest after he asked if I was sad.
I still don't know what's going on with her but I know I can't know/guess that. I'm going to continue to focus on me.
I have my therapy appointment today and will go to the gym afterwards. I have a lot to clean up at home so it will be ready for the boys to come home. My aunt reminded me its not the quantity of time with the boys, its the quality.
I will not be sad around them, but know it will be tough when I pick them up tomorrow.
I will get focused and be strong
That's right. Stay strong.
Talk to your kids EVERY DAY. They need it even if your W doesn't.
Plus that's the way to start off going DIM. After awhile she'll start asking you what you're doing then let it go from there.
Just caught up on your sitch....been taking a break from this crap for a while. So sorry to find out she actually moved out, well maybe not sorry maybe angry is better word. What drives them to be so fricken selfish.
I had a thought about the kids ... the seven year could handle a cel phone.
I know mine does. I gave my seven year old my extra cel phone when he went on a sleep over. It was in case he got scared, he could call me anytime and he did.... I could tell he felt real good about having his dad with him in his pocket....
those pre-paid phone are pretty cheap this way he can call you anytime he wants and you call him direct. As far as the 3 year old, maybe the seven year old could pass the phone to say goodnight...that way you do not have to talk to her at all.
Just speaking from experience, I would talk to the kids through her. Then you can keep some kind of connection together.
Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. I will definitely call the kids tonite.
I got my Ipod touch. I synched it on my computer. I have a question though, it was my wife's account on my computer. So if I change the account, will all the music then be no longer authorized? Not sure if anyone had experience with this when there WAW left.
I'm off to the gym (as well as picking up a case my my Touch).
Thanks
I wound up calling my boys at the time they normally go to bed. My wife had sent me a text as I was dialing to let me know she put the spray that my oldest was looking for in his backback.
When I called, I said "Hi, is this a good time to say goodnite to the boys?" She said yes and handed the phone to my youngest. He was talkative as usual and talked for almost 7 minutes. I talked to my oldest as it was good to hear his voice as well. He only chatted for about 2-3 minutes. They both sounded excited to be coming home. I told them that I missed talking to them yesterday. My oldest said that they had tried to call last nite, but said that I didn't answer. Not sure if my wife just "pretended to" or if it really didn't work. I'm not going to tear myself up about it. I'm just excited to see my boys tomorrow. I know I'll wind up leaving work early to pick them up.
After my oldest was done talking, he handed it to my wife. I hadn't expected it, but she wound up saying good nite. I just said good nite as well. Not much conversation. Is that too dark/dim or is that the appropriate level?
It really hurts/s**ks going dark/dim....
I think that telling her "goodnight" was the right thing to do. You want to be dim, not rude.
That's the right level. It gets better over time.
I was a basketcase the first night they were all out of the house for the first time. I looked at my kids' empty rooms and I totally lost it.
But the days get better so hang in there.
Thanks for all the feedback/encouragement.
I've been keeping busy playing with my Ipod Touch and figuring out how to get everything working. I'm going to wind down soon and call it a nite.
My wife sent me a text about how her mom's garage sale is this weekend so she wanted to know when to pick stuff up. I'm torn whether to be here when she does it or take the risk that she's going to be in the house alone to "pillage" at will. I don't think she will but I just hate coming home and finding more stuff missing.
Any thoughts?
Just tell her you have plans to go out and so to not take anything that hasn't already been designated as items for sale.
Done.
I'm really iritated this morning - maybe mad is the better word for it. I really wish my wife had just completed her move once and done. I really don't want to keep getting dragged into this thing over the weeks. I want to be able to focus on me and the boys and hopefully in the long run building a new relationship with my wife.
I'm thinking that I just ask her what she was planning on taking and moving it all into one of the garage bays so I can tell her she can just pick it up from there without me seeing her. Any thoughts?
We traded some more text/emails this morning as I asked what she was planning on taking. Nothing too controversial.
I told her that I will move the stuff into the garage bay so it won't be so disruptive to the kids when they are sleeping. Part of it was that I figure that when she picked it up, I wouldn't see her as much. The stuff she is selling in the yard sale is "her stuff" that she had bought for her craftroom/jewelry making stuff. There was a couple of things that she wanted to sell that I said I would like and she said no problem.
I tried to get off the phone right after that but then she asked how my visit with my mom and aunt went. I said it went well, we went out for a nice dinner and some shopping.
I tried to end the call again, but then she asked about a trip at the end of May that I had mentioned to her that I was going to take with the kids. When I first brought it up, she said that she wasn't going to go. I told her that I was still planning on going and she was welcome to come and I left it at that.
She sounded sad/soft. No hurt/anger that she had on occassion. I almost asked her if she wanted to get together for lunch but I thought that would still be too early.
Finally I was able to say goodbye.
I tried to be nice and friendly, but hopefully I wasn't too cold.
Oddly, I still don't really miss her. Perhaps it because I'm still frustrated, sad, bitter, angry so I can't miss her when I feel that way. Who knows. I hope she misses me soon.
I can't wait to see my kids when I pick them up!
I really need to just get away from my phone/emails. Unfortunately I can't since it's coming through my work phone/email
My wife has text/emailed me a few more times. I hadn't replied. Just mostly tactical stuff. It hurts when I hear from her. Maybe I need to be careful what I ask for as I may actually get it. I could be here complaining about never hearing from her.
This s**ks
I'm just venting but it really does.....
Combine all the messages into one text. Just keep the answers short and sweet. Yes and no type.
Just remember this is all part of the rollercoaster of emotions.
I just finished talking to my friend who is a WAW - she moved out 6 months ago.
I talked to her about the text/emails and she said it did seem a little odd that she would ask about the visit with my mom and aunt as well as the trip I'm planning with my boys.
That's a good idea to roll up the replys into a single response. I'll have to try that next time.
She also agreed that 2 weeks was not enough time to wait, she had thought 3-4 months would be more like it - ACK!!! I told her that I was going to wait 4 weeks and then try to get a little interest (i.e. start asking how she was doing and see if she asks me back). Any thoughts?
This roller coaster s**ks!
Yeah I would say minimum a month. You just have to play it by ear.
It was 5 months before my W came back (according to her, not of her own choosing). But things got better and last week was the first time in over a year that we actually had lunch together alone. And last night we watched tv alone for the first time in awhile also. Baby steps all the way.
I just finished talking to my friend who is a WAW - she moved out 6 months ago.
I talked to her about the text/emails and she said it did seem a little odd that she would ask about the visit with my mom and aunt as well as the trip I'm planning with my boys.
That's a good idea to roll up the replys into a single response. I'll have to try that next time.
She also agreed that 2 weeks was not enough time to wait, she had thought 3-4 months would be more like it - ACK!!! I told her that I was going to wait 4 weeks and then try to get a little interest (i.e. start asking how she was doing and see if she asks me back). Any thoughts?
This roller coaster s**ks!
Yeah...my wife's been gone for over 2 months, and she's nowhere close to any knid of relationship talk whatsoever.
Well I moved a bunch of the stuff that we agreed was going. It was harder than I thought to move it into the garage. I'm really hurting and I'm beating myself up internally (as well as listening to old love songs). I know I need to stop so I can be strong. I'm going do what my therapist said was just allow myself to cry/grieve for 30 minutes to let it out.
Its a rough nite. I'm not sure if I'm missing her or the reality of the possible finality of my marriage is hitting me
No contact at all this morning from her. Guess it's a case of careful of what you wish for as you may get it. I'm not sure if I miss her or wondering what she is up to. I would have thought she would have contacted me about the garage sale stuff but guess not.
I am mad at myself for not realizing earlier the scope/magnitude of the problem but know I can't do anything about that now. I get it now
Now I'm mad that she's not giving us a chance. I know I can't do anything about thay now
The only thing I can control is my own happiness and take care of me and the boys. I know I can be happy without her, it's just that I need to make that choice. She has made hers. I guess I have to make mine
This roller coaster s@@ks
The one thing that worked in another sitiuation like yours, is another person or the just the thought of it. As soon as he dated she came back quicker that I can type this.
I not saying to do that but while she has the kids it would not hurt to put yourself out there.... test the water a little see what happens...make her worry a little. Just go to a few clubs. you have not tried that yet ...hey nothing else worked maybe making her jelous will....
I must say it does not work for me, my wife just gets mad and withdrawals more ...but thats my sitch everyone is differant.
25 says that you can 'choose' to feel differently and start that by 'thinking' differently. "Where the head goes, the heart will follow".
The one thing that worked in another sitiuation like yours, is another person or the just the thought of it. As soon as he dated she came back quicker that I can type this.
I not saying to do that but while she has the kids it would not hurt to put yourself out there.... test the water a little see what happens...make her worry a little. Just go to a few clubs. you have not tried that yet ...hey nothing else worked maybe making her jelous will....
I must say it does not work for me, my wife just gets mad and withdrawals more ...but thats my sitch everyone is differant.
I had gone out a couple of times before she moved out. It was part of my DB'ing where I just went out with some of the guys. When I got home, she did grill me and acted jealous. About a few weeks ago, she started saying how as soon as she moves out, she thinks that I will just get mad and find someone else to move on. I had asked her if that was what she had wanted and she just broke down crying saying that she didn't know what she wanted. All she knew was that she needed time/space to heal.
A few of my friends and my therapist thinks that another thing could be is that's what she was planning on doing.
I just don't know. I know I need to stick with my plan to go Dark/DIM for the first 3-4 weeks. She left on Sat, so it's now day 6. Although I did see her on Sun when she picked up the kids, then I saw her on Mon when she picked me up to go to the required Children of Divorce seminar and we had lunch together and we text/emailed on Weds and we she called me on Thurs. No contact today. So maybe this is really Day 1 of the Dark/DIM. Hmmmmm.....
So tough.....
25 says that you can 'choose' to feel differently and start that by 'thinking' differently. "Where the head goes, the heart will follow".
I had heard that too, but I'm torn as am I just lying to myself then.....
Whadda you mean you're lying to yourself?
I think he's referring to the "fake it till you make it" idea.
CIPA,
Don't be discouraged. It's still very early in your sitch. Just take it a day at a time. Put it in your mind that you WANT to learn to love your W again. That's what I did after she left and I was pissed off and hated her guts.
Did you download the podcast I sent over earlier? It helped me going and when I started getting that angry feeling, I would play it and let it calm me down.
Hang in there buddy. At least you see your kids today!
I think he's referring to the "fake it till you make it" idea.
CIPA,
Don't be discouraged. It's still very early in your sitch. Just take it a day at a time. Put it in your mind that you WANT to learn to love your W again. That's what I did after she left and I was pissed off and hated her guts.
Did you download the podcast I sent over earlier? It helped me going and when I started getting that angry feeling, I would play it and let it calm me down.
Hang in there buddy. At least you see your kids today!
You're right - I'm not sure about the "fake it till you make it idea".
I downloaded the podcast but couldn't get it to work
I'll try it again tonite.
Thanks for the support and encouragement
She called to pick up the stuff from the garage. She asked if she could borrow my truck and help her load it with all the garage sale stuff. I didn't want to help nor lend her my truck and I'm sure she realized it, but I figure that would be the quickest way so she wouldn't have to keep coming back.
I had the truck pretty much loaded before she arrived. I was a little annoyed and was trying to be dark so I didn't say much. I had left the keys in the truck so once I loaded the last couple of totes in her SUV, I started to head back into the house. She asked if she could have the key and I said they were in the truck. I didn't say much at all.
Once she left, I realized I was probably too cold. When she got back with the truck, I got the sense she seemed a little urked.
I told her how our youngest found his bear that he had lost at school last week. She said she was glad to hear that and then said something about how cold I was when she had called and when she showed up. She was starting to think that if that was the way I was going to be, there was no way she would think about doing family stuff together. Not sure if that was a threat or she just felt uncomfortable about my coldness. I guess I need to fine tune my DIM/Dark.
Not sure if I should have, but I told her that it still hurts to see her and this entire situation. She just said sorry. I told her that I know it's something that she feels like she needs to do.
She started to tell me about her last 2 days. Pretty mundane stuff of getting her apartment setup and getting stuff ready for the garage sale. I just told her our youngest was a little sad about not bringing back some of his toys and stuff animals. She said that she would bring them back.
She then vented about how early the garage sale was starting and how much work was involved. I told her that the boys and I were going to setup our inflatable waterslide in the afternoon so she was welcome to stop by after the garage sale for a splash to cool off.
She kept chatting while we were standing in the garage. I then asked if she wanted to come in to grab a drink. She said that she was tired and wanted to grab a shower and just go to sleep.
Oh well, whatever. Guess I went too far away from DIM/Dark.....
"Not sure if I should have, but I told her that it still hurts to see her and this entire situation. She just said sorry. I told her that I know it's something that she feels like she needs to do."
This would have been the perfect time to end the conversation. You told her how you felt and that's that.
It does get easier and the more you do it, you'll see when to cut things short.
Again, very early in your sitch.