Hi everyone! Phew, that was a mammoth thread. Heres the last...
Stuck in Stage 2 !. He was due round today to go find a place to site my artwork in an old chapel...and I just had the most lovely day. Amazing, like old times (although he was still quite closed off and quiet). It was hot and glorious blue sky all day, not raining! He was here 10 1/2 hours this time.. and right at the last moment, standing on the step in the open doorway he finally says something. It wasnt very conclusive either way, I'm not sure what to make of it. Heres the background.. he suggested coming straight over when I called him, so he was here by half 12.
I made us a pack lunch (!) and we went and got the ferry across the bay...it was a beautiful day and a really fun thing to do. Then we caught another little boat, just us two in it and the skipper who was a real comedian! He dropped us in this little creek where we walked and found the chapel. On the last ferry back, a school of dolphins gathered nearby and the skipper cut the engines for ages for us to watch them. It was incredible (this is very rare apparently)! So we had such a special afternoon and I felt really happy. It was 6pm then and he suggested we go to see this huge ship in drydock, so I was pleased he was stringing it out..then he jumped at the offer of dinner and we came home and I cooked a delicious meal and then at 8pm he strung it out further by wanting to watch a film on TV!...and finally said he ought to go at about 10pm.
When he jumped up to leave I must of looked sadly at him. I had been relaxed and chatty all day, we are so comfortable with one another (amazing, to think how anxious I was around him in February)..he hugged me for a LONG time at the door. I clung onto him a bit and did a bit o' neck kissing (its tradition now guys!).. and as we stood hugging he suddenly said:
"i dont want to upset you Al"
"You dont?"
"No, I dont want to upset you"
"How would you upset me?"
"I know you dont want me to go"
"You do?"
"Yes, and I dont want to upset you, thats all" (he hugged me tighter, so I said)...
"Well, do you not want to go?" (and his answer was deflated, not emphatic...)
"I need to go...I just dont want to upset you"
Then he let go and started saying he would come see my banners when they were finished, he wanted to see them, to phone him. I said, what later this week? He said yes, but, before then, sort out access to the flat and I'll come over (hes going to help me as there is STILL a leak there).. and he carried on looking at me, so I just pulled him toward me again and we hugged and I kissed his neck some more times and when we let go, although it was dark, I'm sure his eyes were red and teary. Then he left.
Is this a bad thing, or a good thing? It felt at the time a bit like the R talks we had before Christmas, when he would say, I dont want to upset you, but this is the right thing for me, hug me and leave anyway. He still showed no interest in me, eyes very faraway. But the hugging went on much longer than before and he did let out another little sigh. So I'm not sure what to make of it? I had SUCH an amazing day though with him.
Ali x
__________________
Me: 37 BF: 34 T: 9 years
IDLYA: 2 Nov 07
Own flat: 26 Jan 08
Depression confirmed: 4 Mar
a flicker of life?Stuck in Stage 2 !6 months onNFC whats nextbacking off?
...my friend rang and when I told her she said, well that proves one thing.. he DOES know how you feel about him. You have been trying to think of something to say to him to let him know somehow you still love him and are waiting, but without pressure, well now you dont need to. By saying that, he was acknowledging that he knows you would prefer it if he just stayed and was with you. Not as a friend.
So thats true! Also, this is the FIRST time he has mentioned anything personal or acknowledged this wierd situation we are in, since before Christmas! Thats 5 months. So thats the 2nd thing proven this week.. first, no OW, second, he does know how I feel, which means I dont need to say anything at all to him. I just have to keep waiting I guess?
(((((Ali)))))
The first thing that struck me is, that as I've said all along, he knows. And he almost got to the point of really talking about it. Be aware, I would not be at all surprised if he pulls back a bit after that.
It's a good thing, you had an amazing day!
(I'm busily trying to figure out which island! I really like the countryside down that way!)
Hi Jeff! Do you really think it was a good thing?
After he said it and we hugged the second time, he reached for my hand and stood squeezing it when he was asking me to phone him, so that was significant. Also, when we talked about money earlier, he started talking about his Dads house and he said " we cant afford.. " and it was obvious that he hasnt cut the ties to me in his head the way it slipped out. Also, there were more references to things we had done together, as we had walked on this peninuslar last summer and he was relaxed mentioning stuff. Also, there were alot of sweet tones, the way you talk with your partner, not your friends. Also, I sat very close to him all the time and stood at his shoulder when he talked to me..I decided to act as if and be in that body zone that friends wouldnt stand/sit in, but he didnt mind (he didnt move away). So thats positive too.
He took a huge interest in the cat again, fussed her the whole time and I finally have "trained" him to help himself in the kitchen and go to the loo without asking permision, so its like he feels "at home" here. He made us cups of tea and helped dish up. It was like we had never been apart.
Sorry for rambling, I suppose its good to write it all down, as I do read back on stuff...
YAY Ali! It sounds like you had an amazing day yesterday and I LOVE that we have a list of positives here. Not just that, it's a long list too- I think it seems clear that BF just needs some time to get better by himself and then he's going to be right back at home with you and the cat!
Speaking of which, the first time I read that last sentence I thought you'd trained the cat to go to the loo without permission and help himself without permission. WOW, I thought- Ali is a regular Dr Doolittle!! LOL!
((((Ali))))
L.xx
Hi Lisa!
My old cat, who I loved more than anything in the whole world (the one that died the week before the bomb) was so well trained that when I said "do you want a cuddle?" if he did, he would stand up on his back legs to be picked up, and if he didnt, he would make a growl and move away from me!!! Amazing.
There were so many positives. The only downside is, I looked good yesterday (!) I had this cute little top on, but it was freezing on the water.. before we got on the ferry, he had worried about me getting cold and ran back to the car to get me his jumper (Acts of Service!) which I did wear (ah, it smelt of him), but I have still woken up this morning with a cold! Blueghh....
Ali x
Ali,
Hey, I'm caught up w/ you and I can say that your sitch sounds really, really positive. However, I would echo Jeff in saying be ready for him to pull back a bit, but don't be put off by it or hurt in any way. It is the way he's always done.
Also, I would now tell you that you no longer have to worry at all about telling him how you feel. In fact, I would make sure you avoided this subject as it may only provide pressure for him.
I would also agree that you are DBing still, but remember WHY it is that you DB -- you DB for YOU, not for him or anyone else. Your DBing efforts are to get your life in order so when and if you have another shot at working things out w/ your BF, you'll be strong enough as an individual to know you can be alone in this world if you have to.
You will be fine -- just keep continuing along the path you are going. Work on yourself and continue to be his friend, rock and support. That is what he needs right now.
Take care, be patient, and be strong. You are doing well. Time and consistency are what you need now.
RTL
Ali,
Some amazing baby steps! And obviously you don't need to say anything to him, because he knows.
I think you are still pushing him with the kisses and trying to nail him down for when he will call or see you.
Let him set the pace. These are his issues and dilemnas and he can only resolve them in his own time.
Just remember how great a response you got from him when you didn't contact him for a week? He missed you!
I think it's okay to contact him every once in a while, maybe once a week or so. But let him miss you, let him work through his issues, let him figure out what he wants and needs. You can't make the decision for him.
There were some amazing baby steps. He keeps opening up to you, he likes spending time with you, he wants to see more of you.
I'm so happy you had a great day. That sounds like so much fun.
Ali,
Some amazing baby steps! And obviously you don't need to say anything to him, because he knows.
I think you are still pushing him with the kisses and trying to nail him down for when he will call or see you.
Let him set the pace. These are his issues and dilemnas and he can only resolve them in his own time.
Just remember how great a response you got from him when you didn't contact him for a week? He missed you!
I think it's okay to contact him every once in a while, maybe once a week or so. But let him miss you, let him work through his issues, let him figure out what he wants and needs. You can't make the decision for him.
There were some amazing baby steps. He keeps opening up to you, he likes spending time with you, he wants to see more of you.
I'm so happy you had a great day. That sounds like so much fun.
Dear Ali!!!
Wow, what an amazing day!!! I loved the part with the dolphins, and how he wants to see you again later. YOU DID SUCH A GOOD JOB!!! I am reallly proud of you!!!
Just one thing--I'm with Michelle--getting teary when he needs to go and going for the neck kisses seems like Big Time Pressure to me. Can you try, the next time you hang out with him, not to get so emotional at the end, and remind yourself that you'll see him again soon? It has gotta be really hard for him ALREADY, and then to add the kisses and the lingering hugs on top of that, probably just makes it more painful for him. I think it might be easier for him to spend more time with you if he doesn't have to worry about going through the Intensely Emotional Goodbye at the end of each hang out. He already KNOWS that you care.
but most of all, I am just so happy to hear about your gorgeous day together!!!!!!!! and how he kept trying to add on to it and make it last longer!!!!!!!!
(((((((ALI))))))))))
T
Hi Ali,
Wow, what an amazing day you had with him. Can't really add much more to the great comments already, but I am sharing in your happiness of this important development. Maybe it will be a little easier to give him a bit more room now that you know that he "knows" how you feel. He gets it, so that's good. I think you are in a good position to be even more attractive to him by holding back on the kisses and tears. Think of it as a way to help him feel safe with you. He doesn't think you are considering him as just a pal. Strikes me as a sharper fellow than that!
Also, it does seem like he is slowly doing better with the depression overall, even though there is a lot of up and down as one recovers gradually through it. I think it's a good sign.
Purr
Ali,
In looking at the last few posts, I'd have to agree that if you can hold back on the kisses and contact in the short run you'll be in a better position for the long run.
I know how tempting it is b/c just seeing my W makes me want to hold her and kiss her, but if you can do w/out, you'll become more desirable for him w/out the pressure.
Test yourself to see if you can do this (which we all know you can), but make this a competition for you. Can you do it? Challenge yourself and monitor the results.
RTL
Hi everyone! Thanks for your thoughts! So you think its sounding positive? I do feel a million times better after seeing that CBT counsellor last week and then spending much of the weekend with him. I can really see clearly how this is about him being in a mess. And I'm mega relieved theres noone else involved.
Just to clarify.. it was HIM that was doing the lingering hugging! And I'm not about to push him off! And it was him that was asking me to phone him, I just asked, do you want me to call you later this week? But he said to call him before then, he wants to do some DIY at the flat, maybe tommorow. I havent contacted him today, I need a break as the weekend was pretty intense. Oh and it was him that was tearful, not me!
So, I have a dilemma. There was this gorgeous antique type brass bed in an unusual chromey colour that I wanted to buy last year, but he hated it, so we bought a wooden one instead. I went to the shop today and its discontinued.. so I asked the Manager and they found one in the warehouse...and I got them to agree to ship it here for free and I haggled the price down to £150!!... so.. do I buy it? Its quite a statement, buying myself a new bed. Especially one that he didnt want, but I feel like it would be good for me.
I cant afford it, but it seems meant to be, seeing as they no longer sell it, but they found one left over and I got it cheap.... ? Today, I am starting to think I'm not sure how many months more we can go on like this before I move on...hes put me through a lot, I know he has depression, but will he ever be joyful and have joie de vivre and ready to have children?? I'm not giving up yet though!
My gut says get the bed. But I am likely to spend when I shouldn't, so better wait for some other people's guts to speak! Oh, that was gross!
One your first point. YES, IT SOUNDED POSITIVE. Just making sure you heard!
(((((Ali)))))
Hey Al!
I agree with the Jeff-meister. Get the bed! You'll still have the wooden one too for when BF comes back aswell.
His behaviour does sound very encouraging. I'm really glad you're feeling so positive about it!
L.xx
ALi, you've got mail. I couldn't post here and sent you a mail instead.
Love
K
Oh I was emailing you at the exact same time! How strange! Synchronisity.
I wanted the new bed, so I have mine as a spare bed for visitors this summer...but then yes, we could switch beds if he ever (ever!) comes back. No word from him today, but I will have to see him tommorow, as he took my camera home with him and I need it! I am dreading calling him a bit actually... as wonderful as it is to see him, its rather draining to hold your feelings in all weekend and be in his company for 10 hours but not be allowed to touch him. I hope this doesnt go on for too long, I'm not sure I can wait forever...!
Ali xx
Ali,
Two things:
One, you said:
its rather draining to hold your feelings in all weekend and be in his company for 10 hours but not be allowed to touch him
YES IT IS! It stinks, but you've got to find a way to have the idea of touching (and eventually kissng) come from him. I know how much it gnaws at you, but you've got to try and be strong.
Two: Get the bed! If it won't take food from your mouth, get it! It is a purchase for YOU, so BF's thoughts be damned. This would be an Ali purchase for the pure satisfaction of Ali, so I say, if you've got the means, then get it for yourself.
Think of it as a reward for all the hard DBing you are forced to do for BF.
RTL
Hi RTL, I know, I know.. I swear I didnt touch him the whole time! And we were together all day.. on ferries, in the car, sat on the sofa together all evening, I still respected his space, but I sat near him. He went to hug me at the door (I never move) but I did kiss him a bit, ok, I snuck a few, but he didnt pull away. He doesnt give them back, but he doesnt seem to mind!
Well, I asked him for the camera and said he didnt have to do the leak, but he was insistent about coming to fix the leak, he said it was important we get it sorted and that he was really worried about it.. this is interesting, he is showing a real sense of responsibility here (contrast that to when he left and the flat was standing empty and I had to get the plumbing finished and seal the shower and connect the oven and all sorts and he never even asked me about it). Plus, although the flat is in his name on paper, its still mine and mine and my parents money in it and he always said it was "my" project and I havent asked him to take any responsibility. I dont know, maybe he's just being nice and helping me out, or maybe he does feel like its "our" problem afterall. It could be positive!
He also said he would bring the camera over, even if we dont go look at the leak. So he was pretty keen.
Again, he could just be being nice, or it could be a positive sign! Full Moon tonight...
Ali xxx
Ali,
I think some of the responsibility stuff you are seeing could be connected to his having reduced depression symptoms--he's a little more focused, has more initiative and energy, maybe is working on himself some more. This is good, whatever the reason. There are a lot of positives going on here. Sounds like there is a little more sense of balance in things--not just you pursuing, but he seems a bit more "in" to it overall. From what you are describing in the big picture, this sounds like a bit more than just friends...you have shared a very significant relationship together, so I think you're in a "Friends Plus" zone.
Purr
Dearest A!
Just stopping in to say hello & hope you're having a beautiful afternoon/evening. tell me more about this full moon tonight!
(((((A)))))))
T
I did kiss him a bit, ok, I snuck a few, but he didnt pull away. He doesnt give them back, but he doesnt seem to mind!
As long as you are sneaking kisses, you are the pursuer. He can't pursue you if you don't let him. Silly girl. Lol.
Ok! No kisses! Grr.
So, he is coming here at 6pm and we're going to go see about the leak and then, it will be time for food.. so I wonder whether he will stay (I guess I should offer, as a thankyou) or whether he will make his excuses and go home. On recent visits, I would guess he would stay for dinner and that would be positive if he did. Ok, wish me luck and thanks Purr and Michelle for your help! And T.. well, its a very rare full moon, its the second in a month in the sign of Scorpio, and whatever was promised, or brewing around the last full moon, a month ago, you can get a 2nd chance of it matierialising now apparently.. heres hoping!
oh and I just phoned him and said, shall I get any tools out to take? And he said, "yes, our scraper tool, a screwdriver and a stanley knife if we have one"
he hee hee. We? Since when did couples who split up nearly 7 months ago have a joint toolbox? Ok, I'm being pedantic, but he was VERY careful not to use the "we" word for the past 5 or so months. Its only been very recent that its crept in. OK.. got to go apply makeup and dress up, DIY be damned...
Al xx
(((Ali))) Have a good time tonight!
Have a FAB time tonight Al! I hope you both have fun using your tools!
Hope you have a great evening, DIY and all!
(((((Ali)))))
Ali, have a great time, better than ever!!
What does DIY mean? Because if it means "Do it yourself", I could help. I have 9 months of experience... BTW Ali, you don't need a BF for DingTY!!
Have fun!
K
Im' a DIY expert. However you want to take that!
ROTFLMAO!!!!
BTW Ali, you don't need a BF for DingTY!!
Well, at least you didn't say you're a DingTY expert!
Jeff,
You are bad!!
Purr
I thought I would get you guys going with that comment...
And it was DOING it Yourself...
k
Good luck with the DIY with BF!!!!!
Hugs,
W2G
Blimey, I bet we are all DIY experts! No need to call in the professionals around here.
Well, hes gone. Again, no signs of romance, but more little sweet tones and little teasing ways, hard to explain but there was none of that before. He was very committed to fixing the leak, as if it was HIS problem, which I didnt think it was (and hasnt been for 6 months). He did want to come back for dinner, so I made us pasta. I was all dressed up, hair done, soft makeup, little summer clothes.. and.. well, nothing! I didnt notice any flirting or anything! He did hug me for ages and very tightly when he left, eventhough he was already late for his squash game.. and I didnt kiss him!!!
So he asked me to help write his CV as he is going to maybe apply to that other company here (10 minutes from my house, YAY!) and its a promotion, so more money. Lisa, I thought of you! He said he felt very low yesterday so I asked him directly why and he said he just gets like that sometimes. He is speaking to his boss tommorow about whether the decision is made yet to bring him back up country and so again I asked him directly to email me and let me know what she said and he said he would, then when he said goodby and hugged me for a 2nd time, he said, I'll speak to you tommorow...He was very interested in my artwork too and saying he thinks I am definetly an artist (I dont think I am ! Workshy maybe !)
So, I fear my thread is getting boring now! More of the same.. loads of contact but I really get the impression he sees himself as single and that isnt going to change. He said something about wanting to cycle to work... like as though its never occurred to him to move out of that flat. But the last twice he has said goodbye, his face was right near mine, and looking down and as though he was going to kiss me.. if he just lent forward that extra few inches, but he just rubs my arm and then legs it.
Well, it was lovely to see him again! Wierd. No emails, no phonecalls either, now I keep cooking for him !!!! Next he'll be bringing his washing round LOL. Although he always did more laundry than me...
Ali xxx
He did grab me tightly when he hugged me and although he was already late for his squash game, he hugged me for ages..
Wow, that's a great positive!!!
and I didnt kiss him !!! Do I get a gold star?
Yep
So he asked me to help write his CV as he is going to maybe apply to that other company here (10 minutes from my house, YAY!) and its a promotion to Principal Engineer, so more money.
Very nice! An excuse to see you more perhaps?
So, I fear my thread is getting boring now! More of the same.. loads of contact but I really get the impression he sees himself as single and that isnt going to change.
It's more of the same, but it's solid good friendship stuff with a bit of teetering towards romance I think. Give it time. See what develops.
The last twice he has said goodbye, his face was right near mine, and looking down and as though he was going to kiss me.. if he just lent forward that extra dew inches, but he just rubs my arm and then legs it.
I don't think he's so much scared of you as himself and hurting you again. Don't read too much into it. But enjoy that eye contact and physical touch. Those moments of connection are TOTALLY positive!
Ali,
I'll echo Michelle's thoughts:
The interactions are very positive.
This is more about him than you - remember that.
I know you were disappointed, but remember NO EXPECTATIONS!
Finally, your self-control was excellent! I know you wanted to give those kisses, but you refrained. I'm guessing he's wondering why you didn't kiss his neck this time. Wondering is a good thing for him to do. Wondering makes him think about you. His movement toward you as if he wanted to kiss you may have been the result of him missing your kisses on his neck.
That is all good. Remember to give him the chance to miss you. You did well in this interaction. VERY WELL!
Now is the time to be consistent for the next interaction.
Good work today, young lady.
RTL
Bravo Ali!!
I agree with Michelle and RTL. Stage 2 for good. And if you stop kissing him and tearing up from time to time you may give him the chance for more moves towards Stage 3. My H keeps saying lately that what holds him back is the fear that he will hurt us again. I am sure your BF thinks the same. The more fragile he sees you the more careful he will be the less spontanious as well (excuse my spelling).
Skip the laundry stuff, keep the cooking. We say "the road to a man's heart goes via his stomach".
Love
K
I really need to get my H over for dinner...or maybe get Ali to cook for him.
Are you sure you didn't put something in his food?
the road to a man's heart goes via his stomach
Well, in that case, I'm surprised we're not M with a bun in the oven by now the amount of food I am cooking for him! But, if we can talk astrology here for just a minute (excuse me), then it IS the way to his heart, as he has a Taurus Moon and your moon sign is what feeds your soul and what you love and Taurean moons LOVE good food and wine. They have to watch their waistline (he has developed a little spare tyre since leaving me, but thats probably all the booze he has been sinking). Michelle, I always ask him what he wants, then cook exactly that. I speed cook, 15 mins usually, leaves more time for chatting ! You should defo ask your H to stop by for food.. I always ask, in a casual way, like its just refueling, no big deal.
So, I am helping with his CV.. great! I really did think of Lisa. If it leads to grabbing my bottom and snogging me in bars like it did for her, then I will write the best darn CV he's ever seen. And I want him to get the job! Its near my house (as opposed to his job now might be moving 250 miles away, arrghh!)
I am sewing banners. I have done half of one and I have 7 1/2 to go ! Eeek! I have permission to hang and photograph them in this 13th century chapel tommorow. What fun! My BF really was very interested and supportive. Hes my biggest fan. As he was saying goodbye at the door, he was mithering about me getting my camera to work and saying he'd call me and I was standing there thinking, what a wierdo !? That he is like that with me, but we are most definetly apart. Does it occur to him that I may just go find someone else? He's never said and I cant imagine him reacting as badly as Kalni's H, or reacting at all! But you never know.
Does anyone think I should start making myself a bit unavailable? That he is cake-eating, having the comfort of me, without giving me anything back, maybe even using me a little?
Just wondered.
Hmmmm, so with my H being a Cancer...what is the way to his heart?
GL on the banners! That sounds so fantastic!!!
Hmmm, perhaps let things sit at friendship for a little while longer. Then maybe turn down the occasional invitation from him. Let him wonder what you're up to by yourself.
Hey Al!
Sounds like you had a really good evening playing with your tools and eating delicious dinner!
Isn't it so funny about these WAs and wanting help with their Cvs? It's so great that BF came to you with that though- it shows that he really trusts you. And I think it's so positive that he wants to apply for a job close to home. How convenient will that be when he moves back in?
I have to say that I think those moments of connection are really important. My H used to do that, and they grew, so they were a real baby step for him. Hopefully they are for BF too (?).
I'm crossing my fingers hoping to read about bottom grabbing on your thread soon. Can't wait!
((((Ali)))))
L.xx
Yes, why cant they write their own flippin CVs, what are we, like their school mistress or something !!?? Made me laugh thinking about the bottom thing.. my BF always said what an incredible bottom I have (and so did his mates!!) and I must confess that cooking for him does involve lots of bending over to get things out of cupboards/the oven/the dishwasher and I took every opportunity to sort of wave my bottom in his face tonight...
But, nothing.
I may have to declare him clinically dead if this carries on (or change the name of my thread)!
Oh and yes, I think I can safely say that he completely trusts me, way more than anyone else in his life, even his own mother. I'm at a loss to work out why we're still apart. We've never had a cross word, we're the best of friends, we laugh, we chat, we share the same values, ideals, politics, opinions, we like the same food, music, films, humour and people. I assume he still fancies me. Maybe we are TOO harmonious? Maybe theres no GGRrrr, no ooomph. Maybe he got bored? I dont know. I dont think he is bored of me. He once said I was the least boring person he knew. But then.. he's depressed. His love died.
Ok, banner number 2....
I may have to declare him clinically dead if this carries on (or change the name of my thread)!
Partner left after 9 years- clinically dead?! I know it's a bit morbid and is sort of black humour, but that's making me smile, Ali!
I love the idea of you innocently waggling your bottom at him tonight- very subtly flirtatious. You might not have seen signs, but I bet he did notice!
OK, bed time! Night Al!
I would bet he noticed too, just didn't act on it!
Sounds like the banners are coming along!
For me too, Good night Princess (and My Lady)
K
Believe me, he noticed. He is a man and he is breathing, so he noticed.
You've already firmly established in a past thread that he isn't gay, so he noticed.
Keep from kissing him and he'll get hungry for more. BTW, Kalni, man has more than just an appetite for food.:)
He not only noticed, but he'll keep noticing as long as you allow him to do so on his own.
Good luck w/ the banners. Is #2 done yet?
RTL
Ali,
You are so delightful!!!! I am very excited to hear about the bottom-wagging. Do you think that is why he always is "hungry"?? Um, can you teach me how to speedcook in 15 minutes???? that skill could dramatically change my life!!!!
I am really excited about your banners. Can you post some pictures of them in the chapel after you do the photographs? that is so great that BF is so supportive of your artwork. that is really important!!!!
I would say, just pay attention to all the little flickers, the sweetness, the eye contact, etc. I mean, I would probably cream my panties if I got an arm squeeze. PERSONALLY!!
that is so great that he wants your help with a CV! I dunno, to me a man asking for career help is really intimate. and sets you up for more contact. I hope he gets the new job near you too! But, even if he moves away, that doesn't mean he won't come back to you. It could be that he moves farther away phsyically/emotionally before he moves closer. Like for a long time I was terrified of what would happen if my B moved out of NYC to some godforsaken middle-of-nowhere place. And then I realized that if he was in the middle-of-nowhere, his quality of life would probably improve, his stress levels would go down, and he would be able to figure out his crap a lot faster. So if your BF was back with all his friends, in familiar territory, etc, who knows, if it was a big quality of life improvement, it could accelerate your BG getting out of his depression and he could think: Wow, now I finally have everything I thought I wanted, but look, I am missing something very important, and that is the love of my life, Ali! That's just my 2 cents.
What are you thinking about that new bed?
Thanks for explaining about the new moon! I *love* second chances!
(((((ALI))))))
love,
T
Just a couple of high points...
-arm rubbing / close face to face contact: a big deal IMHO. Arm rubbing is actually a very intimate gesture...(not to be confused with rubbing other limbs)
-the "cooking display"...yeah, he notices. You don't need to worry about that. Keeping it subtle as you have is the way to really work it.
Ali, this is really sounding good--I like that it is happening slowly...it carries more weight than some kind of sudden turn around on his part.
Methinks this is gold.
Purr
Thankyou guys! Taking a break from sewing. My cat was "helping" by turning into Cliche Cat and playing with a cotton reel. I think she may go pick a fight with Jerry in a minute. Hi Purr, RTL, Michelle and T! This is great this staying up lark, cos you are all up too ! So, generally, everyone views this as positive? I swear he didnt notice my rear, but I'll believe you guys if you say he does! Depression does kill the sex drive I hear, so maybe thats why (it is 6 months with no nooky for him too, and theres no OW definetly, so thats kind of wierd, to voluntarily go through such a drought!) But thanks RTL, Michelle, Purr and T for pointing out to me that that these little touches are significant and I guess you are right.. we are building something here, or all this is building toward something maybe?
He IS very supportive T, and so kind. OH! He blurted out earlier "I must get that new sprocket for your bike because that will improve the gear changing" (I dont even NEED one and I didnt ask for it. I dont even know what a sprocket is!), so more Acts of Service!. I was thinking earlier that I have been ridiculously spoilt on and off over the past few months. Apart from the odd quiet lull, hes been very much in my life. But theres something DEAD about it. Over. Moved on. Its like that comfortable wonderfulness you feel around your best mate, you chat, you laugh, its great to see them, you tell them all your news, you whinge about your family, you divulge some strange skin coplaint (he always seems to have a new one!), but... you dont want to get them naked and go at it hammer and tongs do you. No. Theres a difference.
I cant put it plainer than that.
As usual, see what tommorow brings. May as well get that tatooed on my forehead. And see, I didnt kiss him! I do listen to you guys you know, you are like the voice of my concscience speaking to me in a wierd cacophony of accents.
Ali x
ps.. Thanks T, I totally forgot about the bed !! I'm not sure, it is going against his wishes, he hated it.. dont know...I'm such a sieve head though!
Stage 2 of DBing, that friendship, is supposed to be like that! Comfortable, chatty.
In many ways there are more positives in your stitch than mine. My H goes from stage 3 to stage 1 and back again. You guys are at least firmly in stage 2 with no huge vacillations. Keep moving along, and see what tomorrow brings.
Cats are always funny. They love to be in the middle of things sometimes. How are the banners coming? Halfway done yet?
Hi Michelle! Yep, halfway done. Halfway to go. I need more tea!
Good point, ok, stage 2! and yes, theres no vacillating at all really and I appreciate I have it easier than some in that respect. I'm not going to say anything about this coming weekend, so it will be interesting to see if he wants to see me (after spending much of last weekend with him!). Sounds like he was making an excuse to come over again with the whole sprocket ruse (ah, that old chestnut, the let me come over and oil your sprocket sometime)...
I'm sooo tired. This has been keeping me awake -
70s tastic. For a person who likes mainly indie/guitar music, this may seem strange but its my all time favourite song. Reminds me of being 7..Ok turn up loud and dance around like you're a looney.
Burn that mother down!
god I'm tired.
(((((Ali)))))
Just so you know, he noticed!
Hurry up and finish so you can get some sleep!
I am drinking tea too! Gotta stay awake for class lol.
Hope the rest of the sewing went well. Can't wait to see pics!!!!!!!!!!
I'm so tired still! Photographed my banners today, but the sun went in! I must sort my website out...
So I texted him last night.. he didnt reply and I didnt mind! I didnt even come and whinge here about it here. So I am loads calmer these days about the little things.
But then he just called me.. straight from work! He wanted to talk to me about his stressful day he said and what his boss said, to download.. he apologised, but its hugely positive isnt it?? I was touched. Also one of the first things he said was to apologise for not replying to my text last night! He said he wanted to but his phone died.
Anyway, his boss said the decision is made, its not good for the business to have the team fragmented so she wants him back up there. He is very upset and angry. But..he spoke to the Director who is saying theres a chance he can stay down here, if they get new business in..so he's been trying this week already. I told him he had responded really well to this bad news and swung into action, even though he is depressed. I listened and validated I think!
He has been working on his CV too and wants me to look at it tommorow. In the recent past when he downloaded about himself, he wouldnt really ask about me, but he did, he was very interested in my artwork and remembered my assessment tommorow. He said he would speak to me tommorow too and check the times for the cinema (so I am hoping he will invite me!).
Still very matey, no change. But hey, we are getting closer all the time? I dont think anyone needs to go buy a hat though anytime soon....ZZZzzz. Its getting boring over here now!
Ali x
So many positives!!! I can't believe you fit that into such a small post.
(((Ali)))
Wait and see. Just wait and see.
Sounds very good Ali!!
Hugs,
W2G
Very good stuff, Ali!
He is calling you first, now. He is getting more comfortable. He saw you a lot recently, and he hasn't run way back into his cave. (Though he still could.) I think you are doing great!
((((((((Ali))))))))
Hi girls! And Jeff! Yes, I am getting more used to him coming to me now, well spotted Jeff (thats how it was before, then I was crushed and cried for 2 days solid when he backed off for a week! - but that was because he felt low I think, nothing to do with me). I was really pleased when he called earlier !
So the bad news is, they want him to move back up country. This worries me! The good news is, theres only ONE other company in Cornwall that does what he does and its 10 minutes from my place! (and Cornwall is big, takes 2/3 hours to drive it). He is sending them his CV tommorow, but the vacancy is now closed and they have a shortlist. I dont know what will happen, but I'm just grateful theres a chance he can stay local.
Before we split though, we always knew he was here on a temporary trial. I wanted him to go to that other company, as then he could stay here and get promoted maybe too.
It is all good.. but theres still that lack of something, of oompph (but then he has depression and felt so low last night that he went out late and walked the coast path alone to get some exercise at least). Perhaps like Michelle said, if this matiness continues, I should start being a bit less available?
He still hasnt told me where he lives though! Wierdo
My H doesn't know where I live. He's only asked once, I told him the area, he was sorta talking about coming over once and I offered him directions, but that hasn't happened of course.
There are many reasons he might not be comfortable telling you that. Embarassment is the least of them.
In any case, with all the increased contact and positives it's kinda a small thing to worry about. He probably will go through some more withdrawal periods, just hang in there. Ride them out. He keeps coming back to you!
He must really be embarrassed about his living situation or something?
I also think it's good that he's looking to try to stay in Cornwall.. he doesn't want to move back up country!
W2G
Yes, I am sooo relieved, but its not ok yet, he may have to move. We had a slightly wierd convo about it on the phone. I was annoyed he told his boss we'd split in November, as I knew she'd think theres no need for you to be down there now.. his old boss had agreed the transfer so he could move with me, as I had got into college.. he told me earlier that she thought the transfer had only been "for personal reasons" (so I was right, her rationale for moving back is becuase we have split up). He argued with her that that wasnt the reason, it was to expand the business down here.. so that was wierd. I wish he hadnt told her we had split. I'm sure this wouldnt be happening if he hadnt.
Well, maybe its a good thing. If he's forced to move back home, he will either hate the commute, or hate having to move to the city, so it will be rubbish. Maybe he will miss me! They said he is to come back in 2/3 months...thats July/August. Also, our tenants move out of our home at the end of July...I have been telling my friends for the past 6 months that I will know more by August becuase there are 2 big eclipses in Leo then.
I never ask where he lives and he may be embarressed yes. Its still odd to not tell me though!
Hey Ali,
has he told why he doesn't want to move back? You said before you were both kind of "lonely" in Cornwall, just had each other. Why doesn't he want to go back to his friends etc. Or am I getting something confused?
Hi Kalni!
Yeah well, he is VERY upset to be asked to go back up country. He is angry about the way its happened, but also.. yes, I am sure all his friends assumed he would move home when we split, because he has tonnes of mates back home and he did move here with me as a couple (he wouldnt have done it otherwise, on his own, no way). I did sort of ask him why he was so upset and he said because he doesnt need this right now, he doesnt want any stress, like having to move jobs. He is adamant hes not going back there!
But he didnt say WHY he wants to stay down here. It is wierd though, as although this is a beautiful place, I wonder why he wants to stay down here alone and with so few mates...unless it is something to do with being near me, I really dont know. I guess with the way he is feeling, he doesnt want change.
He said he would call me tommorow, which would be great! We may be heading back towards daily contact again (I HOPE!) That full moon didnt bring me anything dramatic like I hoped..unless this work stuff counts and him deciding yesterday to apply to that company near me.. that would be hugely positive (I would hope that he would move back in with me eventually! But we could meet for lunch at least).
Ali xxx
Feel a bit pants today. He emailed me about his CV and I found time to look at it, in between my assessment (I passed) and work. It was fine, but one thing that struck me - his address was at the top! So that solves that then.. it isnt that he doenst want me to know, he just hadnt bothered to tell me. He obviously hasnt wanted to invite me round though.
He remembered my assessment and wished me well, so that was good. His emails were brief though, mainly CV related. He did offer to come back to the flat though (shower STILL leaking!).
I have been thinking about his "I dont want to upset you, I know you want me to stay" statement. I think he was just acknowledging that I wanted him to stay but he was letting me know nothing has changed and he cant stay. I still dont see ANY sign from him that he is romantically interested in me. Its a bank holiday weekend here, so will be interesting if he contacts me. I have to admit, my expectations are up and I hope he wants to see me.
I guess I had high hopes after so much contact, but the reality is, hes still never said a word of regret about all this.
Um, so, yeah, just feeling a bit flat and all a bit quiet over here...
Same here Ali. I amfeeling a bit pants too...
I guess it's our sign...
K
So the adress thing must have mean nothing to him after all
Hi Ali,
It's probably premature to assign a definite meaning to the statement he made. It does at least confirm his awareness of you and where things are at. Also, his other actions like initiating calls to you, warmer physical contact and increased comfort with these actions, need to be taken into consideration. So, yes, he may well still be signalling that at this time he can't bring more to the table, but I don't get the impression by any means that this is done for him.
This is all mind-boggling, heart rollercoaster sort of business, isn't it?
Purr
Sounds like he just never thought it was important to give you his address. He certainly wasn't intentionally hiding it.
I am also feeling pants today. I don't know if it's the weather, the moon, or what. But I am having one of the worst days I've had in a long time.
((((((Ali))))))
Remember, he isn't spending a third of the time thinking about the R as you are. There is a lot less meaning behind his small actions and words than you assign to them, after thorough Alinalysis! Try to stay level!
(((((Ali)))))
(((((Kalni)))))
(((((Michelle)))))
I like you guys! I hope your days get better!
Hi everyone!
So.. looking at what you wrote, I decided to ask him !!! He called me earlier (no reason, just for a chat!) and we were talking about his CV. He said about how he made the top look striking, stand out, this is where his name and address was, so I took a deep breath and said "I didnt realise your address was XXX..because you hadnt given it to me" and he said..."OH, hadnt I? I didnt realise" and carried on chatting, unconcerned...
So there you go! Pays to ask direct questions I reckon (Lisa, sit up straigh at the back and take note!!) He still hasnt invited me over. I'm sure its not that big a deal though.
He said about us going to the cinema this weekend, didnt say when though and hes out Saturday night with a friend. He said his cousin might be coming to stay for the weekend, but hes not sure..so he will have to check with him first, but would call me tommorow (yay!). So again, I bravely said "Well, then I guess I wont see you at the weekend if he's coming to stay" and he straight away said..."You probably will! but we just wont go do that" I said, does your cousin not like the cinema then? He said, no its not that, I'd just rather go do something else, like go for a drink"
So is he suggesting that we go out together, with his cousin !?
The other thing was, in discussing the job he applied for today, he thanked me for my help, I said he should believe in himself, as I did...and he thanked me sincerely, then said "we'll just have to wait and see Al" and later her said "we will have to see what happens". We ? WE? Could just be semantics, nothing special.
So other than all of those copious positives, the negative... I ttold him I may have to rerent the flat in July, but I wasnt sure and he started advising me, then stopped himself and said "well, its up to you, of course, I dont want to say you should do this or that, I really dont like that and dont want to tell you what to do"...as though its MY problem and we are just friends and its not for him to say what I should do about the flat this summer...
So that kind of thing tells me he has no plans to come back. Bit like Kalnis news really, they dont realise how loaded these comments are to us.. to me it spoke volumes, he is a single guy with his Dads house (we spoke about renting that too) and I have the flat, we are no longer a couple and these are no longer joint problems.
So, bit of a mixed bag, no change, but I was MASSIVELY pleased that he called me. I dont want to jinx it by saying it, but we seem to be back to daily contact again lately. Phew! So sorry for the atypical long post...
Ali xxx
PS: Purr, I hope you are ok, I will catch up with you. Thanks Michelle and Kalni...yes, astrologically it was a stressful day! And Jeff... I have been trying to give the analysis a rest though lately, did you notice !?
And Jeff... I have been trying to give the analysis a rest though lately, did you notice !?
I did! I realized it had been a while since I had referred to Alinalysis!
((((((Ali))))))
Amazing about the address thing.. we look at things and read meaning into omissions when they dont say anything, but he wasnt even aware that he hadnt told me! Makes me think what else isnt he aware of? (like how much I love and miss him. I'm sure he thinks I am over him now). This clear communication is much healthier though, so I intend to ask him about popping over to his flat sometime and see how he reacts to that.
I wonder if I shouldnt do something, or say something at some point?...because he's just not showing signs of seeing me as anything more than a mate. Ok, a good mate, a best mate even, but not a romantic prospect. He seems to be so over me in terms of having an R or wanting to be intimate with me. It could be because he is depressed and knows he is not right or ready to be in an R with anyone, or he could really have meant it when he said last November "I'm not in love with you anymore, the feelings have gone for good and I really dont believe you can ever get them back."
I seem to be encased in concrete in stage 2, no escape. Maybe this is just it. All there is ever going to be.
Ali, things are moving in a positive direction! I think you may be too close to see it, but they are. I think they are gaining momentum. He spent time with you, and didn't pull back. Keep doing what you are doing, but try to be more "up" (without being totally silly, though I'd go for silly!) everytime you see him. Be a person he'd have to fall in love with! Confident, bright, energetic! There will be a time to ask him things, not yet.
If there is something of interest to you near where he lives, maybe you could say something like, "I'm going to see XXX, could I drop by and see you?"
(((((Ali)))))
Jeff, as an outsider, who has followed my crazy mental rollercoaster all along (up and down like a brides nightie!), do you really see things improving in a ROMANTIC sense !? Or just friends?? I am soooo pleased we have been so much in touch recently, I do feel ridiculously spoilt, we feel like a whisker away from reconciliation, but thats the most important last step isnt it. And he could never make it, I have no idea (or say in it).
And no, theres no reason for me to be in his area, so I would have to put him on the spot (casually). I am so relaxed around him now that I am often more "up" than him to be honest! I never whinge or moan and he does quite a bit of that. Hes funny though and we actually get along better now than the last year we were together, he was so withdrawn then. I have moments of being quiet if I feel a wave of sadness, but I avert my eyes and then I recover and he never seems to notice! Like he didnt notice my *rse...
I wonder if he realises how often he has used the phrase "we" recently. I jump for joy whenever I hear it.
Well...I just checked and a fantastic comedian we love is coming here in July, so I drafted an email saying "fancy going!?" with the link to it. I reckon he would like to (but its £30 so he could use that as an excuse to not go). Anyway, what the hell, maybe I will send it to him!
So the bed arrived in the store today! Its a real knockdown price...Question is, do I buy it !? I reckon.. yes (even though I am poorer than a Church mouse thats eaten all its cheese).
I like Jeff's suggestion. If you ever have an excuse to be near there, casually mention lunch or tea.
(((ali))) There are positives there! Just be patient for now.
"we" is such a nice thing to hear isn't it?
You have to be friends first. Don't rush things! He is opening up more and more. And he knows how you feel. So give him time to decide what he wants to do with that.
His biggest fear may be that he has nothing to offer you. But if he can sort out this job and stuff, that's a step in him feeling more secure which is a nice ego boost for him.
Jeff, as an outsider, who has followed my crazy mental rollercoaster all along (up and down like a brides nightie!), do you really see things improving in a ROMANTIC sense !? Or just friends?? I am soooo pleased we have been so much in touch recently, I do feel ridiculously spoilt, we feel like a whisker away from reconciliation, but thats the most important last step isnt it. And he could never make it, I have no idea (or say in it).
And no, theres no reason for me to be in his area, so I would have to put him on the spot (casually). I am so relaxed around him now that I am often more "up" than him to be honest! I never whinge or moan and he does quite a bit of that. Hes funny though and we actually get along better now than the last year we were together, he was so withdrawn then. I have moments of being quiet if I feel a wave of sadness, but I avert my eyes and then I recover and he never seems to notice! Like he didnt notice my *rse...
I wonder if he realises how often he has used the phrase "we" recently. I jump for joy whenever I hear it.
Well...I just checked and a fantastic comedian we love is coming here in July, so I drafted an email saying "fancy going!?" with the link to it. I reckon he would like to (but its £30 so he could use that as an excuse to not go). Anyway, what the hell, maybe I will send it to him!
So the bed arrived in the store today! Its a real knockdown price...Question is, do I buy it !? I reckon.. yes (even though I am poorer than a Church mouse thats eaten all its cheese).
Why does the bride need a nightie?
Never mind.....
Yes, I do see changes in a romantic sense. At least from the description you write the hugs are getting longer, and they are intense. And he isn't running from them. Even when you were neck kissing (good job stopping), he wasn't pulling away. I think if a woman friend neck kissed me, and I didn't pull away, it would be clear to both of us that we were not "just" friends! (Unless I get to Cornwall, of course!)
Is there any reason you might have to pass through where he lives, on the way to somewhere else?
I'd ask him about the comedian. I'd also get the bed.
(((((Ali)))))
And he did see you waggling your rear!
Yep yep! But since you two aren't actually together, or in a R, it's not appropriate to comment or grab!!
well.. I sent him an email today, a joke about football, then I sent him another with the link to the comedian for July and "fancy going !?" and an in joke about it...so we'll see!
I'm slightly past caring (ok, not really, but DB be damned etc).
Tonight I am going out with 3 guys for an end of college drink! Ok, two are attached and the other is 20, but hey, its 3 guys!
I also just found our absolute absolute favourite comedian (ok, we have a few!) one my BF aspires to be and even looks quite like him and is very similiar in temperament (melancholy, alchoholic and dead witty!)..he is coming to town in November, so I am going to buy 2 tickets next week for that, and it will make a perfect birthday present for him when he is 35 in August.
And I would hope that he would invite me to that.. I did give myself a year to hang on when this first happened, so thats November, and then I guess I'll be moving on (unless he has met someone by then).
got to go sit a Geology exam now for a dyslexic student! Joy.
Al x
Sounds like good GAL activities.
Have fun tonight!!!
Ali I noticed you made a refernce to astrological stuff on Michelle's thread and I was wondering where you get your info from? I'm interested in it, but don't know anyone with any real knowledge.
Thanks,
Corey
Ali - more info on the Mercury thing please. Do you think I should go NC during this and see what he does??? If it helps, he's a cancer and I'm a libra.
Yay! He didnt say no! He said "sounds good" but he also said, isnt it £40 !? (its £30 and I knew he'd balk at t the cost, eventhough he would spend that on a night out drinking!), then he emailed me to say he had to run, but he'd call me in a bit.
For once, I wont be in..I'm going out to the pub now for the evening. Feel a bit wierd about that.. its the first time I'm not available...I'll have my moby on me, so we'll see if he rings that...
But he said he would call me, so its amazing, we are up to daily contact again. WHAT DOES HE WANT FROM ME !!??? :-)
Probably not what I want from him...
Ali xxx
(((((Ali)))))
You are doing great! Don't worry about what he wants, or even what you want! Just be Ali!
Ali,
Hey, I'm all caught up now w/ you! Yeah!
I think things are positively moving for you as well. Just continue to be patient and see what happens.
I'd say look for an opening (like I had in my sitch, but didn't know how to respond) before you say something. If such an opening exists, then you can gently test the waters to see how he reacts and go from there.
RTL
I like that he didn't flat out say no. I like that he said he'd call.
But you know what I like best? That you won't be at home when he calls! Have fun tonight!!!!
WOW!!!! Yeah for Ali's first time of non-availability!! It sounds not normal, huh? Enjoy it my dear.
I just love it when you sound excited and happy. I feel happy too...
Have fun tonight with your 3 guys...
K
Good stuff, Ali. I hope you enjoy your time out this evening, you really deserve it. I'm guessing that it might be a little easier to enjoy and relax into it a bit because you've had a little more solid and consistent contact (and plans!) with your BF of late.
Have fun!
Purr
HE CALLED ME !!!! ON MY MOBILE !!!! He he he. Hi guys, so nice to have you there wishing me well and nice I have something new to report, a DEFINITE baby step! (another one!!!). So.. I was out and I was ok early on as I knew he wouldnt call till later, then around 9, 9.30 I had a really wierd feeling, I could sense him trying to get hold of me and I wanted to phone him, but thought that would be too wierd (for me to call him late Friday night when I am out in the pub)... so I phoned a freind...then, I had a missed call!! So, he had called me TWICE at home this evening, sounding a little flat on the answer machine (oh hi Al, just called for a chat) and then.. HE CALLED MY MOBILE !!! On a Friday night. This is significant.. he is chasing me, he is wondering where I am (he said so).. I was STUNNED.
Anyway, we had a nice chat and more positives! I said my friends had walked ahead and then I was lost in a housing estate as we left the pub, and he was really worried! He panicked and told me to get off the phone straight away, go find your friends, told me to call the one he knows and was really concerned! Anyway, I found the house and then we chatted for ages more in the end.
So...HE'S INVITED ME OUT FOR A DRINK TOMMOROW NIGHT !! BUT.. WITH HIS FRIEND !!! Sorry for shouting, but again, I was stunned. This is a friend I met from work, who really likes me and I get on well with him (a male friend).. my BF is meeting him tomorow in town to watch football, then boxing and stay out drinking, and theres NO WAY he would have invited me before to join them.. this is HUGE! This is a couples thing to do, to get me to come to, like the old days ...unless, he really does just see me as a mate, but.. oh also! he wants to meet in the day to go to town shopping, just mooching around for stuff he needs to buy and he invited me and said he would call in the morning, then asked me to join them in the day to watch sport, but if not, to join them later for a drink Saturday night!
I am so excited. I feel like we are nearly back together, but I musnt push it. This is my intuition and the piscean stars support hanging back for now and not putting someone under pressure, but letting things unfold naturally. I'm so excited, did I say that !?
God, waflling, but tonight was a big deal for me, he told me at 5, i'll call you in a bit.. then I disappeared out and was unavailable for the first time in 6 months, I wasnt where he expected me to be. And when we did speak he sounded a little embarressed and actually admitted (when he finally got me on my mobile) "oh, I dont know why I'm calling really, I guess I was worried, I left you a message at home as I thought you were at the shops or something, but I called again and then I thought it was odd as its not like you to not call me back".... I listed the guys I was out with.. and he brightened up then when he knew I was with college people (as he knows they are all babies and no threat to him) and he said, I'm so glad you are out having a good time.
He was home, alone.. he said he was going to go out tonight, but was too tired, I siad, oh, who with? He said, oh, well, I didnt have anything arranged.. HA! AND he wants us to go to the cinema this weekend.. AND he said his Mum was coming in 2 weeks to stay and I could tell he was hinting about meeting up with me as he said "oh I dont really know what I'm going to do with her..."
god, sorry for going on and on and on. I'M SO EXCITED! Had a fun night too, lots of laughter, made everyone laugh alot, good for my PMA.
ALi xxx
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!
((((((((((((((ALI))))))))))))))
remember this the next time you want to do a Neck Kiss. When you take a step back, he gets a chance to step forward!!!
LOVE,
T
Ali,
AWESOME. Wow, what a satisfying "turning of the tables" here!!
And did I mention...AWESOME!!
Purr
(((((((Ali)))))))
Do you finally believe what I've been saying for weeks?
You nailed it girl! NO PRESSURE!
Have you ever fished? Once you have the fish hooked, you sometimes have to let it run a ways, so you don't break the line, then bring it in, a little at a time. Let him swim to you, Ali!
WOW Ali! This is fantastic news! I'm so happy for you!!
How fantastic that you guys are going to spend the day together today, and the couple outing with his mate. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!
And now the important question. What are you going to wear?!
L.xx
Ali,
GREAT NEWS!!!! Maybe you will finally believe us that you need to leave for him some "space" to act and chase and worry about/for you.
What are you going to wear?
K
((((((Ali))))))))
Yay! See what a little mystery can do?
How was the night out Al?!
I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for news!!
L.xx
heheh! Well.... (wait for it.....) uh hum... drum roll please...
I JUST SPENT THE NIGHT WITH HIM!
Not like that though, just as friends, he didnt touch me, but I was all snuggled up to him, as we were in a flippin single bed !!! Good job I am small.
It wasnt s*xual at all, it was just comfortable, so wierd, it just felt normal, natural, no big deal. He was very drunk when he asked me to stay, I kept saying, are you sure, but he said yes, just get into bed! I was a bit worried I was taking advantage of him being drunk and how he would feel in the morning when he was sober, awkward maybe, but I decided to go for it, as then its done then, out the way. I knew nothing would happen, but I thought it would be another problem solved, see, its ok to stay the night with me, its no big deal, its not an issue... anyway, when we woke in the morning, he was fine! We'd been laughing and chatting a bit before going to sleep (he fell out of bed very comically at one point) and when we woke up, within seconds, we carried on laughing about some things that had happened the night before! And we didnt get up straight away, just dozed.. then his friend knocked the door and invited us to a cafe for breakfast with his girlfriend, so the four of us trotted off and had a nice time and lots of laughs...Very wierd!
Um, I met all this new bunch of friends, they are nice people, but all mid 20s so we were like the older pair and that was nice, but his mate introduced me to everyone as they arrived as the girlfriend! And BF didnt seem to care at all! He stayed close by me all night like we were a couple, he told me every time he was nipping off to get a drink, go for a cig, or go for a wee! Whenever he was talking to others in the group without me I heard him refer to me alot "Oh Al likes.. " and whatever it was, or he would draw me in to the conversation this way!
When we left he went to walk the wrong way, so I grabbed his hand and then he instantly locked fingers with me as we walked off, it was AMAZING! It was a real moment, we both did it without thinking walked a bit then he stopped and gave me this incredible look, of recognition, of love, and then let go and flung his arm around me instead and we walked on like that.
So...we spent the afternoon together before we met up with the friends, and that was like we were a couple, the evening was as though we were a couple, I got introduced as his girlfriend, he asked me to stay the night, we hung out with his friends.. THEY invited me to join them all at Glastonbury for the weekend and when they asked him if that was ok he said "Yeah, sure". Blimey. Then when I said goodbye this morning, he didnt even get up to see me out of hug me, just said bye and that he would call me later as we are all going to another city tonight to watch a film and go for a drink again, as a gang and he is completley expecting me to come too!
So, as I thught would happen if I ever saw him very drunk (as I havent for 6 months).. he told me whats going on, although he still wont open up. God need to go get a cup of tea and remember what he said!
I'm so confused! God, I just read your post Lisa.. WOW. I have to catch up, but I cant believe the day you had then he packs you off home on the bus and my BF didnt touch me barely at all and I staeyd the night with him! And yet I feel we are in a similiar place with them sorting out their own cr*p.
Anyway... wee shared some looks last night and then suddently, he got really upset and started an R talk with me (and later on). I was totally unprepared and as a result I didnt say very much! I was fearful, so just let him talk. Also, I had said my stars said no pressure and just be fun and happy, so I resisted the temptation to ask him questions, eventhough I knew he would have told me anything, becuase he was drunk, basically it went like this...
BF: Oh Al, I'm so sorry (buries head in my shoulder and repeats it, I hug him)
Me: Why? Why are you so sorry
BF: I just am, I dont want to be a b*stard, I'm so sorry. I'm just a crazy person.
Me: What do you mean?
BF: I feel crazy, seriously, in the head. I feel crazy. I'm rubbish (repeats this alot).
Me: Why do you feel so crazy? (he just looks mortified and shakes his head alot)
Me: Can you not explain?
BF: No (looks really upset and about to cry)
Me: Do you want a hug? (he nods and I give him a huge hug for a while)
BF: I just need to sort myself out, I dont even know what that means, but I just do. I'm so sorry Al.
Me: I know you do, I know and its ok by me, you dont need to be sorry, I forgive you and I am here for you.
BF: I know you are, I just need to cut loose, I dont know what cutting loose means, just be free..of my Mothers words going on and on at me..
Me: But shes phoning you twice a day now
BF: I know (looks really really upset)
Me: Can you tell her to not call you so much?
BF: I have told her, lots of times...
Me: What does she say?
BF: Nothing, she wasnt listening, she just keeps talking...I just feel like I've been coseted my whole life, I feel crazy. I'm sorry Al for being a b*stard. I feel like a crazy person, I'm just f*cked, f*cked in the head (buries head in my shoulder and is very upset, we have a big hug)
Me: I'm always here for you, it doesnt matter to me if you feel crazy or not crazy, it doesnt change how I feel about you, I will be here for you.
BF: I know...I KNOW Al (says with real feeling and gratitude)
then someone interrupted us and the evening continued. I was dying to ask him all sorts, but I guess he said it all. So, I was right... I posted ages ago about Uranus and the IC and the mother and blah blah, but basically, in leaving me he was rejecting his mother, which isnt what he seems to be able to do in real life. And ironically, since he left me, she has taken great delight in having "her baby" back and calls him twice a day and he has said to me alot lately what a drain on him it is. So, its all about his mother!!! How flipping freudian. I dont know what he meant by having his mothers words going on and on at him all his life and being coseted all his life.. but his mother is a nightmare, goes on and on, refuses to look below the surface, very put up, shut up and get on with it, unemotional, not uncaring, bossy, opiniated, not sensitive, doesnt EVER ask him how he is because "I dont want to interfere". Drives me mad!
Later on the bed he said some more stuff...
BF: Please dont do anything to yourself
Me: What do you mean??
BF: Dont blame yourself, its not you, its me, I'm a crazy person, seriously, I'm f*cked in the head. I've just shutdown. You know I love spending time with you...I just dont want any complications. I need to sort myself out, I just need some space and time.
then we hugged and he insisted I went to my car for my things so I could get into bed. And then I snuggled up to him, spooned, arms all around him. He said "dont squeeze!" as he felt unwell, so I got off him, but he said, "No, you were ok as you were, just dont squeeze too hard, thats all!", so I wrapped myself all around him again and he fell asleep.
So odd. So basically, DBing has been amazing and as my friend said.. you are breaking him down bit by bit.. he is slowly learning it doesnt have to be complicated, to see you, to spend time with you, to sleep in the same bed even, but obvsiouly he has shut down and withdrawn and can only just look after himself and he's still struggling. He cant even tell me whats going on, but he must still love me, I'm sure, although he hasnt said so.
Feel exhausted and drained typing that out, it sounds a bit clinical, but it was anything but at the time, it was as though time stood still. A little slice of reality. The rest of the evening we were pretending to be a couple again and it was all as though it was just a bad dream.
I just read the first sentence...
I had to say "you ltlle sneaky" goofy girl!!!!
K
I read the rest now
ALIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!
OMG this is SO AWESOME. I AM SO PROUD OF YOU. You did SUCH a good job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow, you handled everything so, so, so, so well!!!! You did such a good job validating and listening with no pressure. HOOOORRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY!!!
I am also really impressed with BF. It is really amazing how much he opened up to you about his own issues. Has he ever talked to you about this stuff before the bomb? Like about his Mom and thinking he was crazy and F!$%ed in the head?
This was my favorite part of the whole evening:
BF: Dont blame yourself, its not you, its me, I'm a crazy person, seriously, I'm f*cked in the head. I've just shutdown. You know I love spending time with you...I just dont want any complications. I need to sort myself out, I just need some space and time.
So we've been speculating that maybe this *is* all about BF being on his own emotional journey of inner healing... and then he told you flat out that's what it's about !!!!!! OH MY GOODNESS!!!!
It's really interesting that you and Lisa both had such soul-baring evenings together with your WAs when the WAs were drunk. I think a lot of other DB'ers avoid getting drunk with their WAs but you two seem to have handled it unbelievably magnificently. Truth Serum, right? Is this some kind of British thing? Do you think it would work for me? (Just kidding... kinda)
What are you going to wear tonight????? What movie are you going to see?
I know you already know this but
keep letting him set the pace and if things start to move really quickly
it is TOTALLY OK to slow things down. Play it smooth, don't try to accelerate anything. Suave, suave! (Said with a spanish accent) Better a slow and steady return than a lot of waffling back and forth. Like, if you do get to have a snuggly sleepover again, probably don't have sex with him!!!!! Yet!!!!!!
That's just my 2 cents.
Ali, I am SO proud of you. Look at how far you've come!!!! You are a superstar!!!!
((((((((ALI))))))))
LOVE,
TRANSFORMER
T... absolutely, my BF has been very careful to NOT get drunk in front of me for 6 months and I was hoping for that as I knew (being hte way he is, kind of closed off) that the only way I would get any truth out of him, was if he was drunk. "In wine theres truth" is that the saying?? So, yes, I was waiting for it! And I didnt drink on purpose (I dont much anyway) but I wanted to be sober to hear it! I know I said I was unprepared, but I was expecting him to break down and fess up and yes, amazing, he totally confirmed what everyone has been saying and me also... its not me, its him, he needs space (such a cliche yes but he actually said it!) and its all about his mother.
I knew he had a rubbish relationshio with her... would barely visit before meeting me, but I got them closer, but he would sit there and she'd go on and on inanely and he'd just say yes, no, uh huh, and take it, whilst seething inside that she was so selfish and self-involved and doesnt listen and is on transit and not receive and takes no interest in him as a person.. and baring in mind, this was how he was bought up and in a loveless M and she had an affair from when he was 8 and then his Dad was a broken man until the day he died.... but no, hes never spoken to me about it really, in 12 years of knowing him !!!! A bit, not much.
Kalni! Hi!
Actually... it wasnt "like" that, but at one point, I couldnt sleep, I put my arm round him and accidentally brushed his thingy and actually thought "OH! hes got a *****!" like I'd forgotton, so I copped a feel, hehehehehe.. well, he was fast asleep, he didnt mind, it was funny, I had a good old rummage around to remind myself what it felt like :-) sneaky girl indeed
WOW!!! I am amazed with the change in YOU!!!. It sounds like you didn't push him AT ALL!!! Way to go ALI!!! That was a great test for you and you passed with flying colors (?)!!!
And WOW he sounds a mess!!! He is definitely giong through some kind of life crisis, I am not sure it's midlife though, it could be teen crisis (lol).
You have got to let him get his head straight Ali. You really need to be patient. This time he told you so clearly that he needs space and time. And you said you can feel he loves you. That alone should give you the strength to be patient.
Keep doing what you have been doing, being there for him, make him feel safe and that you are not waiting everytime you meet something from him. He will relax and look at things differently.
Way to Go ALI!!! I am proud of you!!
K
Ali,
In vino vertias!!!! Right on!!!
wow, so he hasn't really talked to you about his mom in 12 years of knowing him??!! That makes it even more of an awesome breakthrough, b/c he wasn't just opening up to you about the R, but also about what was on his heart in his own life. Wow!!!! Is he still not in counseling? I really wish he could work on this stuff with a counselor....
The way you described the conversation it was really easy to imagine in my mind, his facial expressions and yours and everything. It reminds me of something my counselor said to ME, when I didn't want to get into certain things in the C sessions. He said that we need to "go there" and get into those things, but I wouldn't have to go there alone, because he would be there with me, and that I would always come back from those feelings, because he would help me return also. It sounds like BF is carrying around so much weight and sadness and darkness, he is afraid if he lets himself feel it he will just crumble, but actually if he "goes there" and "gets into it" that is what will let the burden be lifted.... Obviously no one can push him to do this (except maybe a C). It seems like it was a really big step for him to even bring it up with you.
that's the feeling I get.
You didn't tell me what you're going to wear!!! ;-)
love,
t
Ali,
I am totally with K. I am amazed at the change in you too. You are awesome.
And you made me laugh about copping a feel!!! LOL!!!
love,
T
Right on! Funny, thats a Cornish saying. I cant imagine you saying that with an American accent.
You have got me worried, what am I going to wear indeed!? I have actually run out of outfits I've seen him so much lately...! I dont think it matters what I wear to be honest. His friend was really sweet.. he is the most blokey, womanising guy he knows, and he was the only one of his friends who confronted it with me. He said, I never asked him why you broke up, he was so cut up when he told me you'd split, I tried to talk to him, but he was too upset...so I thought it was you naybe.. I said, oh no, it wasnt me, it was him, 100%! His friend was shocked at that and said, I keep telling him to get back with you, he wont find anyone better than you, you're so funny.. he just says "Yes, I know". He said to me, I think he is having some kind of MLC (ha, yep, seems so!). He said he was going to talk to him today, when sober and ask him why he wont try again with me, that hes a fool.
But, I am not excited by any of this.. my BF has serious problems. When he said that to me (excuse the language, hes not normally that uncouth!) "I'm f*cked in the head", I just thought, yes you are, and I know, and I know more than anyone, and they have nooo idea. And I'm not sure actually if he will ever be ok, some things just run too deep.
Kalni, yes, a teenage rebellion/crisis! He has Uranus on his IC, thats the textbook definition! Its so classic.
T - we did talk, I knew she drove him mad and hurt his feelings by never bothering to listen or get to know him as an adult, but theres much more to it than that, considering the mess he is in. He said to me also, it took me a long time to realise how messed up I was and a long time to be honest with myself that I am messed up. I think it was his way of explaining why he left with the I'm not depressed, IDLYA.
Oh also, I said I would do anything to help, but I cant, can I? He said no, noone can. We talked a bit about the C, he said he had talked about his mother there, but hes only been twice. He needs some serious pyschotherapy though, not just C.
But DBing has been amazing to make me act in a way so as not to pressure him whilst looking after myself, it has got us to this point, but now, I dont know what more I can do. Wait, or decide to give up. I vote for waiting for now! And yes, wierd Lisa had a similiar evening. Bring on the booze for all those WAS! Jeff, can you get your W rat*rsed and ask her whats going on!? Kalni, can you lace your H's coffee with spirits and see if he wont open up!? Michelle.. worked for you on Champagne night!
I just wanted to say thankyou T and Kalni so much for giving me some validation on how I acted and saying that I did well. I needed that! Its hard to know sometimes. It was a lovely day/evening, but it was tough in places. We have to be so strong dont we to handle this!
Yes, he is very damaged. Question is, can he ever resolve it and do I want this for the rest of my life? It struck me last night in this group of younger people, just how compatible me and him are, we get on so great, he is my best friend and soulmate, we were totally on the same page throughout the evening, something would happen, or somone would say something and we just looked at each other and we KNEW, words werent necessary. It was just what we needed, I was waiting for an opportunity for us to be around others, and thats the first time in 6 months. And I did what I hoped I could (and is harder to do when its just me and him), I was funny and vivacious and made everyone bend over double laughing a few times in the evening, and this morning! And my BF laughed heartily too and how can you resist humour hey? Look at all those rubber faced unnattractive comedians and their beautiful wives.. (Peter Sellers and Britt Eckland, Rowan Atkinson and his wife, Woody Allen and Mia Farrow.. the list goes on).
((((((ALI))))))))
Take a few days, let all this sink in. Work through your emotions.
Obviously, too many positives to list. But yes, it's a question of how patient you want to be.
(((((((((Ali)))))))))
WOW! I picked the wrong night to sleep!
You went to HIS place? And spent the night? In a single bed? Uh, Ali, I would have to say, that even if nothing happened (and your little "investigation" is a little more than nothing) that has to classify as something beyond "just friends"! I am really happy that you handled things so well! It is good this didn't happen sooner, YOU were not ready yet!
You know what could happen soon, right? Maybe not immediately, but he will probably pull back. Because he still wants the time and space. Make sure you give it to him. He also wants you, once he figures himself out!
WOW WOW WOW Ali!!! This is AMAZING!!!
I love that you copped a feel while he was asleep- that made me LOL.
Fantastic job on the DBing all weekend so far. Have a fab time at the movies tonight and let us know how it goes. It sounds like BF has got the message really clearly that you're there for him, and how nice for the theories to all be proved right a last!
Fantastic! I am SO HAPPY for you!!!
L.xx