Solitary Man - DivorceBusting.com

Previous threads (well, the most recent ones...):

Time For Me to Fly

Reelin' in the Years

I Don't Care Anymore

Melinda was mine
�til the time
That I found her
Holding Jim
Loving him

Then Sue came along
Loved me strong
That�s what I thought
Me and Sue
But that died too

Don�t know that I will
But until I can find me
A girl who�ll stay
And won�t play games behind me
I�ll be what I am
A solitary man
Solitary man

I�ve had it to here
Bein� aware
Love�s a small world
Part-time thing
Paper ring

I know it�s been done
Having one
Girl who�ll love me
Right or wrong
Weak or strong

Don�t know that I will
But until I can find me
The girl who�ll stay
And won�t play games behind me
I�ll be what I am
A solitary man
Solitary man

Well, I made a request on my previous thead and promptly got locked-up!! Seriously, I went back to edit it about a minute after it was posted, and no-can-do. Truth be told, I'm not sorry to see that one die anyway...

Guess I am showing my age using this song. Well, my age is in my signature, so you all know anyway... no secrets here, right? But I risk Sally thinking I am that I am even a bigger geek than she first thought... $;\)$

So anyway, here is a copy/paste of the locked post:

I went Christmas shopping yesterday for the wife. Not sure what to get her. I ended up purchasing the necklace for her 40th birthday. It will be from the kids and me.

But I would like to get her something for Christmas as well. I mentioned to her that I was going shopping, and she replied, "Well, I may have gotten something already." I guess she meant that she had purchased something for herself that the kids can give to her. I let that comment slide, and went anyway.

So... I need suggestions, please. Nothing romantic, of course. Practical, thoughtful, and "gift-like." I have a few ideas, but want to get your suggestions... if you have any.

Mark.. same boat here. My W is a teacher, so I was thinking of giving her something "special" yet practical. The goal would be for her to open it and say "I could really use this!!" while also thinking "How thoughtful". Maybe wishful thinking, but that's my goal.

So.. my point was.. can you get her something like that for work?

Some of you out there are a bit young to remember this song. So for lwb's benefit, here is a link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA8Odaa91cA

Very 60's, with (real) horns in the background...

Mark,

No, remembering the song doesn't make you look old. But looking at those pictures of Neil Diamond. Wow! How old is he? Good song though. Perfect choice.

Thanks for the link Mark...I owe Neil a lot--my parents' first date was to one of his concerts. $;\)$

Mark, you will probably laugh but I am into practical gifts myself. I want a new pots and pans set. Probably doesn't sound like a gift but to me, a gift is something that the receiver would want and appreciate. Is there anything you have heard her say she would like, i.e., gees I wish I had this or that?

About 10 years ago I bought my wife a Calphalon set for Christmas. For those who don't know, it's commercial quality cookware. It was very expensive, and I have added to it over the years. Until she told me to stop adding, that is...

The only thing that I know of that she wishes she had but doesn't have is freedom.

I'm sorry Mark. Can you think of something along the lines of what she likes to do, such as a hobby, interests? I really enjoy receiving gift certificates for Barnes & Noble. I get to pick what I want. What about a gift certificate to a spa? Or tickets to a concert?

Surely there must be a perfume called 'freedom'

That would be a present with a double meaning!!!!!!!!!!

Saffie

Um.... Escape?

lol. there you go!

What you need to do is buy her a bottle of that and also the perfume poison!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Saffie

Why do I keep thinking she could use luggage?

How about a mother's ring with all the kid's birth stone's in it. I know I would love one of those. Or now of days they make bracelets and necklaces that are the mother one's.

What is her favorite movie? Maybe you could buy her that movie with a tin of popcorn and a throw blanket. My kid's did that one year and I thought it was sweet. In their card they wrote how much they loved me and how hard I work. So this gift was for me to relax, throw on my blanket and have a snak and relax watching a movie.

Or the homemade gifts I always treasure. You could maybe take that cutie little girl of yours to a pottery place and let her make something.

Other then that what are her interests? Does she have a hobby?

Yeah, I used to take my kids to the pottery place to make things as gifts all the time. That is fun to do. And sometimes the gifts don't look too bad.

Originally Posted By: tryingtoholdon

How about a mother's ring with all the kid's birth stone's in it. I know I would love one of those. Or now of days they make bracelets and necklaces that are the mother one's.

This is her birthday present (#40).

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will stick with the "safe choice," gift cert to a beauty salon.

oh, mark, I think I love you. beauty salon? really? c'mon, you are 43, stop talking like my grandmother. $;\)$

(okay, you know i am teasing you, right?)

I am lmao of the poison and escape suggestions, btw. $\:\)$

lmfao SallyM!!! $\:\)$

Mark, you are getting great suggestions. If you don't mind doing gift cards, there are so many she could use: bookstore, bath and body stuff, facial, massage..

You are doing well!!!

PS: Thanks for the link. You act like I am SO young, I am closer to 40 than 30, my friend. lol

How about a portrait of the kids, not a Christmas one though.

Or how about a week stay at an exclusive looney bin for WAS? We could send them lots of business!

Hell, I'll drive the bus!!

We might need a train...

...the was express...

to Hogwarts!

UPDATE:

I made the cookies. And #2 (correctly) pointed out that they really aren't cookies. Whatever. They taste dynamite!!!! I used three bags of semi-sweet chips. Yeah, I made a lot.

Although #3 did not help me make them (as I had planned), she did help "clean up" the spoon and spatula that I used. And her face was covered.

I'm telling you, if you are looking for an easy-to-prepare, easy-to-clean-up cookie recipe, look no further. These "haystacks" are just the ticket.

Neil Diamond....WTH

Mark,

I should have made your recipe tonight. I figured I'd stick with the pralines for tomorrow. And even though I wrote in the recipe to use a big pot, I used the same medium sized pot I used last night. Last night the mixture boiled just up to the top, but not over. Well, tonight it went W-A-Y over the top. And as I was debating what to do because I didn't want the sugar mixture to get onto the glass burner, my son lifted the pot and it all flowed onto the burner. So I stood there like a dummy not knowing what to do. Finally I said, here, put it on the granite, you can't hurt granite. Which luckily, turned out to be true. So then I put it in a big pot, and it went fine after that. And I was able to scrape the burnt sugar off the stovetop, so the kitchen's not significantly worse than it was before. And I prevented my son from trying to dry the burnt sugar off the very hot burner with a towel. That could have been a disaster!

Next year, chocolate bird's nests. How much chocolate to a 12 oz. bag of noodles?

Originally Posted By: Sara

Next year, chocolate bird's nests. How much chocolate to a 12 oz. bag of noodles?

Um.... I don't know. I usually just eye-ball it.

I used about one container of noodles to one small bag of morsels. The noodles don't come in bags any more. They are in little cardboard "cans."

But it's an art, not a science.... $;\)$

That is a VERY male answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Saffie

You should see me mix a martini....

Different every time? Stronger as the night goes on? :grin

Saffie

Originally Posted By: SallyM

oh, mark, I think I love you. beauty salon? really? c'mon, you are 43, stop talking like my grandmother. $;\)$

(okay, you know i am teasing you, right?)

I get my hair cut whera a man should get his cut: barber shop. And he shaves my neck with a straight razor.

No appointments at this place. And no women, either ....

Hi Mark!

When we lived in IL, my H would get his hair cut at "The Gentleman's Barber". Women worked there and you could have a drink, a cigar and they gave you a neck rub!

My dad always went to Benny's Barber Shop. A little tiny place where, as you said.....only men allowed! Benny always gave a night tight cut & a clean shave!

SueS

I hope when you leave they don't cough and say.....

"...and something for the weekend sir? $;\)$ "

I've heard rumours about those dens of eniquity......

Saffie

No, this is a family place. The owner tells the postal carrier to return any magazine that even looks the least bit offensive. When I was in last time, it was Maxim magazine that he boomeranged (I was tempted to whisper to the carrier, "why don't you just slip that into the brown coat hanging over there? $;\)$ ). And there have been a few women who have worked a chair at this place. He has owned it since 1966.

And no liquor either. There is a "men-only" salon in town that will serve 1 ounce samples of beer (state law limits it to 1 oz at a time). And only women work there. No, I have never been. I like my barber...

Hey there, good suggestions on the gift. This is from the kids right? I wanted to point out that it is VERY good of you to get her a gift even if its from the kids...She is very lucky.. even if she doesn't know it. Although I woundn't go overboard... the salon thing is nice, but I would stick to barnes and noble... does she really deserved to get pampered? I don't think so..

Just my opinion...

Have a good day!

tal

TAL -

I disagree.

I don't think she should sleep on the floor, and be forced to walk around with thunbtacks in the soles of her shoes because of what she did. I want her to be happy, not miserable. If she comes back to me as a miserable and desparate person, what does that say about me?

Thanks for the input, but I think I will stick with the gift certificate to the beauty parlor.

(how's that, Sally???)

Mark,

yes, you have to do what you think is appropriate. I guess it just fustrates me that she can't see what is right in front of her.. a loving man and a good father who wants his family to stay together.

Again, it was just my opinion. you know what's best.

tal

Wife has convinced the kids that there is a good chance that we will get the puppy tomorrow.

I intend to tell her (in private) in a calm voice that I strongly object to the dog. If pressed, I will not give her the exact reasons (her trying to earn the favor of the kids and her filling the void left by her now-absent boyfiend). I will simply say that there is too much going on around here, and the presence of a new dog will do nothing to improve things in our family.

Whadda ya think?

I think that's very sensible.....and it will go in one ear and out the other. Did you mean to type 'boyfiend'? I thought it was rather appropriate!!!!!!

Saffie

instead of dog??? Yes, that's funny...

Mark,

If it makes them all happy, and she will stay in the marriage and the home and try to be a family together, why not get the dog? Maybe use it as a bargaining chip. She commits to make an effort as a family, and present a happy face around the house, and she can have the baby, I mean puppy.

So you are suggesting that I say to her, "I will agree to the dog if you agree to work on the marriage?"

This would be foolish. First, I want her to return of her own accord, not because she wants a dog. Second, her desire for self-improvement should have a basis stronger than the desire for another dog.

I have a lot of respect for you, Sara, but I disagree.

When I got home tonight, she assured me that she will be purchasing the dog tomorrow. She is dead-set on getting it. My opinion on the matter means absolutely nothing to her.

I will see a lawyer next week for the purposes of filing divorce against her. My marriage is over.

Let me get this straight. You're going to let her tell the kids that you are getting a divorce because she got the dog?! Pretty dramatic, isn't it? I mean she carries on with Bozo for Clown for I don't know how long, and you can weather that storm, but she gets a puppy and it's over. Doesn't make sense to me. I see a power struggle, not a marriage.

I agree also. I think there is a power struggle going on. I am not sure why. Maybe she has been thought she had to do things the way you wanted during marriage. Now she feels oh well I am going to do what makes me happy now. I am not sure that's what it is. But there is for some reason a total power struggle going on. Between both of you.

Mark I think your a great dad. I think you have showed a lot of ambition in trying to save your marriage. But when she has had an affair and that didn't seal the deal for you, why a puppy? I know we just bought a new puppy last week. I wasn't trying to fill a void or anything like that. We just simply wanted to have a a new puppy. The kid's were thrilled and I was touched to see that. I guess I wanted it as much for me as I did for the kid's. It seems like the kiddo's at your house are very excited about this.

Sara -

You are absolutely correct. Between the time that I posted my knee-jerk reaction (above) and now, I have re-thought the entire situation. Here is how I see it:

- She sees our marriage as absolutely over. No question there.

- She is going to do whatever she wants, without regard to me, as she has been doing for the past year.

- She is going to get this dog. Nothing will stop her.

- She sees the dog as her "ticket" to the kids. After the divorce is final, every kid that lives with her will mean (in her mind) more child support money for her. And she wants as much money as she can get from me. So if the divorce judge says to each kid, "Which parent do you want to live with?" she needs all three kids saying, "MOM!!" This dog is her ticket to a unanimous decision in that regard. In addition, when we split, both dogs will go with her, and the kids will want to be with the dogs. More manipulation on her part.

- She is desperate for companionship. She is trying to fill the void left by her boyfriend's absence. She wants the unquestioned love that her ex-boyfriend provided.

These next two completely parallel DBing:

- My objecting to the dog will do nothing to endear myself to her.

- The more I object to the dog, the more she will want to get it. This is not an opinion. It is a statement of fact.

------------------------------------------------

This is why I have decided to change my position. I will not win. So I may as well be gracious in defeat. I have told her that I support the purchase of the additional dog. I told her that I want to go with them to pick-up the dog.

It is patently obvious that she has zero respect for me. My opinion means nothing to her. Objecting to the dog will not change her opinion. Until the divorce is final, any attempt that I make to "earn" her respect will be a wasted effort.

I give up.

So I told her that I support the dog. I told her that I would like to accompany them to the place where they will purchase this dog. She refused. I am not welcome. So I told her that I insist. I want to go. She grunted and nodded her head. I guess that means, "Glad to have you on board!!!" .... Just a guess..

The problem is, the weather service has predicted six inches of snow and ice tomorrow. We may never get out of here anyway.

Mark,
This is the classic approach I used with my D when she was younger, pick and chose your battles. Of course, your W is not a child! I think most of us would agree that getting a dog at this particular time is not a wise idea!!

Regarding this:

Originally Posted By: Ohio_Mark

She sees the dog as her "ticket" to the kids. After the divorce is final, every kid that lives with her will mean (in her mind) more child support money for her. And she wants as much money as she can get from me. So if the divorce judge says to each kid, "Which parent do you want to live with?" she needs all three kids saying, "MOM!!" This dog is her ticket to a unanimous decision in that regard. In addition, when we split, both dogs will go with her, and the kids will want to be with the dogs. More manipulation on her part.

I mentioned my sister and her soon to be ex awhile in your last thread, and how their bitter relationship and D has ruined their relationship with their kids... Anyway, BIL tried the "BUY LOVE" approach. My sister can barely make ends meet and he's always buying gifts. The last thing was a Wii. The kids told him to take it back. They didn't want it.

Sure, a dog is much cuter but I think your boys are old enough to make a decision that is not influenced by bribery. If that's what she thinks, she's a fool! Kids are much smarter than that. They must see you as being the strong, stable parent right now.

As far as the Christmas gift idea ... get her something for the dog. A nice sleeping pad or gift certificate for training or something!

Joie

One more thing that parallels DBing:

We all know that she will not find what she is looking for in this dog. Since I will not be able to stop her from getting it, I may as well put myself in a "positive position" with her regarding it. Fighting it gets me nowhere. I lose nothing by going along with it, and I stand to gain a lot by supporting it.

I am a Solitary Man. With three kids, and two dogs.

Originally Posted By: JoieDeVivre

Mark,
This is the classic approach I used with my D when she was younger, pick and chose your battles. Of course, your W is not a child! I think most of us would agree that getting a dog at this particular time is not a wise idea!!

She knows it. However, it is a very powerful tool. She was reluctant to oblige when I requested to accompany them to the "dog store." She does not want me to be a party to the dog purchase. She wants me to get no "credit for the gain."

Originally Posted By: JoieDeVivre

Sure, a dog is much cuter but I think your boys are old enough to make a decision that is not influenced by bribery.

Well, #1 is. #2 is not, at least in the near-term. In the long-run he will see through it and resent her for it.

Originally Posted By: JoieDeVivre

As far as the Christmas gift idea ... get her something for the dog. A nice sleeping pad or gift certificate for training or something!

Thanks for the suggestion, but she is currently in front of the sewing machine making a sleeping pad. And training? Well, dog training is really "master training," and we have been through that. She's getting a salon GC. And a cooperative husband. And she will want neither...

Thanks for the input. In spite of the fact that I disagreed with a lot of it, I do appreciate it. I am sorry if I appear grumpy or disagreeable.

I swear, I'm a really nice guy!!!

Mark,

I'm glad you saw the light. I worried a little that I might have pissed you off, but I know you are a tough cookie and can take more than what I dish out anyway.

When we got our cat Pookie, my husband said it was the cat or him. All the kids voted for the cat. Meanwhile they're both still here. Families aren't a popularity contest.

Wow. Mark. Wow.

I am so glad you are done fighting this. Only because I hate to see you stressed out. If the end result that you still want is an intact family (with wife fully on board, not a 'better than being alone' wife), then you are bowing out gracefully to a battle that you can't win. This is good for your intact family goal. Not because dog = wife happy with Ohio_Mark. But because she will not have more ammunition to use when she sits down the list how horrible you are. $;\)$

I am sorry you are getting a dog you don't want though. That's not fun.

Thanks for the support, ladies.

One of my wife's biggest beefs with me is my tendency to over-react to things. So I knew last night that it was important for my self-development to maintain my composure. And I am glad that I did just that.

Funny, posting the stuff last night was kinda therapeutic. The kids thought I was crazy, going back and forth, upstairs and downstairs. But visiting and posting here worked for me.

Thanks for listening and helping me.

Hey Mark,

Dogs are not that bad. You can tell them ANYTHNING you like and they keep your secrets..

Husband

hey mark,

its probably for the best...at least letting go. probably the best for you. but I really don't think this dog is going to make your w as happy as she thinks it will. or maybe it will, I guess time will tell.

sometimes its hard to let go...but can feel like a weight off of our shoulders when we finally do it.

I am curious though Mark if you two seperate and go into divorce then what happens with the house? Will she be able to afford to stay there? Because then what happens to the dogs? Now of days it is hard to find a place to rent that allows dogs. Maybe as a final word with her calmly before she goes to get it you could mention this.

That is really sad if she feels she needs to buy her children's love. Also if divorce happens couldn't you get joint physical custody then you wouldn't have to pay child support. I am sure a judge would take into consideration that you never wanted this to happen. She cheated then asked for divorce.

We will need to sell the house as neither one of us will be able to afford it on our own. I will likely rent for about a year until I can find a house. She will be in an apartment for a long time (several years or until she remarries).

And yes, I intend to shoot for shared custody. It's becoming the standard arrangement around here in divorce/custody situations (from what I have read). She is going to fight my request for shared custody. She wants sole custody (and the child support money that comes with it).

To her, it's really the same. What I mean is that whether the kids spend four nights a month with me or 14, in her mind, it will have no impact on them. In fact, she considers the divorce to be "impact-neutral" for the kids. They will be OK. She has seen other kids get through a divorce OK, therefore, her kids will as well. So it's really a money grab for her. Never mind my parental rights and responsibilities.

And her cheating on me will have absolutely no bearing upon the divorce or child custody arrangements. The courts here consider infidelity to be completely irrelevant.

I know from experience here in Ohio, that most judges will grant you shared custody (parenting) unless there is a very compelling reason not to.

Mark...brother

I am sorry that things have come to this and you cannot make the SOB pay for playing his part in the whole thing. We have statutes in NC which talk about alienation of affection..does your state have that? Basically makes the 3rd party liable for breaking up the marriage.

In the meantime man...keep looking at those babies and know that they will need you now more than ever. I hope you have a good lawyer and get everything you want out of this.

Prayers and thoughts sent your way man.

Thanks for the info. My job requires overnight travel, so she may go with that angle. I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to schedule my travel so that I am not out of town for two consecutive weeks.

I need to try harder...

Originally Posted By: mcol

I am sorry that things have come to this and you cannot make the SOB pay for playing his part in the whole thing. We have statutes in NC which talk about alienation of affection..does your state have that? Basically makes the 3rd party liable for breaking up the marriage.

Thanks for the support. No, there is no statute like that where I live.

Your job is not a compelling reason to grant her sole custody. Ohio domestic court is pro shared parenting. You have to be pretty f'up to be considered unfit.

ATGO-

Thanks. Although I have not yet spoken to a lawyer, I am aware that judges here are inclined to favor shared-parenting arrangements. I just want to preempt any objection that she may have with solid evidence that it can work.

Deep down inside, she knows that I am a good father. She knows it would be best for the kids to be around me as much as possible.

She just needs the money.

So Mark,

Did you get the dog?

Saffie

Yes. The dog arrived on Saturday. It is a very cute mixed breed. I will try to get some pictures and post a link.

It's very cute and the kids will not leave the poor thing alone!!!

It occurred to me that she probably knows exactly why she got the dog. She was already kicking it around before she dumped her boyfriend. And now that he's gone, her thoughts are no doubt consumed with her "soul mate," and the fact that she doesn't spend an hour a day talking to him, waxing about how wonderful life would be with him. So she needed an emotional distraction (heaven forbid it would be me). And she consciously tells herself that the dog will fill-in nicely for her lost love boyfriend. It makes complete sense to me... and she is not dumb.

She knows why this pup is here.

Hi Mark,

I'm glad you worked your way around to a 180 on the dog. I'm sure you are right, she totally 'gets it' about the reason. Look at it this way - it beats running out and finding a new boyfriend!

A dog is a lot of responsibility - puppies don't take care of themselves! In the short term, this means W needs to be at home more, dealing with that. In the long term, she's just made it even harder for herself to live on her own and make ends meet. None of this fits with the MLCer's urge to 'get outta here and live an exciting new life which I am sure would be terrific without Mark around!' She's adding to the pile of stuff that keeps the two of you bound together, even if indirectly. Take some comfort from that.

As far as what happens to the kids if you D, I will talk in terms of how my daughter would have reacted - the Big Deal to her would NOT have been who had a puppy, or who lived in a nicer house. She would have looked at W and I and seen that I had stood for the marriage, and that W had filed. My D is a very empathetic person, and saw the pain that I was going through - if she had been forced to choose between me and W, I think W would have been in for a nasty surprise.

I'm going to suggest an even further 180 for you, regarding the dog. Don't just agree to have it in your house - WELCOME IT. You're going to live with this puppy now, so turn your attitude around and BE EXCITED AND HAPPY. What's more - help out with the care of the puppy. Feed it, clean up after it, play with it. Make W glad you are helping out, and make her wonder if she really would want to take on the work of caring for the dog without all of your PMA-ful assistance.

Hey Rob!!! It's been a while since you visited. Thanks for coming back.

Originally Posted By: Rob1231

Look at it this way - it beats running out and finding a new boyfriend!

I was never worried about that. The guilt from the first boyfriend weighed heavier on her mind than she expected. I have no doubt that she is done "running around."

Originally Posted By: Rob1231

In the long term, she's just made it even harder for herself to live on her own and make ends meet. None of this fits with the MLCer's urge to 'get outta here and live an exciting new life which I am sure would be terrific without Mark around!' She's adding to the pile of stuff that keeps the two of you bound together, even if indirectly. Take some comfort from that.

I completely understand that. Although I never said it explicitly, when I was making a futile effort to talk her out of getting the pup, I implied that it would make life on her own more difficult (and more expensive). Of course, it fell on deaf ears.

Originally Posted By: Rob1231

As far as what happens to the kids if you D, I will talk in terms of how my daughter would have reacted - the Big Deal to her would NOT have been who had a puppy, or who lived in a nicer house. She would have looked at W and I and seen that I had stood for the marriage, and that W had filed. My D is a very empathetic person, and saw the pain that I was going through - if she had been forced to choose between me and W, I think W would have been in for a nasty surprise.

I will be shooting for "shared custody" with no child support. So it's moot anyway.

Originally Posted By: Rob1231

I'm going to suggest an even further 180 for you, regarding the dog. Don't just agree to have it in your house - WELCOME IT...

Understand that my 180 on the dog was complete. I am an enthusiastic caretaker of the dog. I took him out to pee (and gave him a treat for his success) just before sitting down here. And I have made a vow to not get upset when he has an accident. It's here and it's not going anywhere, so any negative reaction that I have will be wasted energy. I will ask myself, what do I hope to accomplish by getting mad when the dog poops on the oriental rug? Nothing can be done about it, so grab a paper towel and clean it up!!! And no complaining about barking, whining, chewing things, etc. I will not permit myself to complain about anything.

BTW, you suggested that I play with the dog. That will not happen. Um, he's too tired from playing with the kids!!!! $\:\)$

Thanks again for the support. It means a lot to me.

Originally Posted By: Ohio_Mark

Originally Posted By: Rob1231

As far as what happens to the kids if you D, I will talk in terms of how my daughter would have reacted - the Big Deal to her would NOT have been who had a puppy, or who lived in a nicer house. She would have looked at W and I and seen that I had stood for the marriage, and that W had filed. My D is a very empathetic person, and saw the pain that I was going through - if she had been forced to choose between me and W, I think W would have been in for a nasty surprise.

I will be shooting for "shared custody" with no child support. So it's moot anyway.

Moot for the courts perhaps - but still worth considering in terms of how the kids will look back on all of this someday.

You sound like you are on the right path. Just remember, when you feel like going off the handle and filing yourself - deep breaths, 48-Hour Rule!!! And, of course, come vent to your pals here. $\:\)$

Quote:

That will not happen. Um, he's too tired from playing with the kids!!!!

LOL! You are so right. This poor dog will find you and say "Thank goodness, someone I can take a nap on!!!". $\:\)$ $\:\)$

Loving the 180 with the new pup. Loving it. You are confusing the heck out of W, and not in a bad way. Mark, you have done so much growing here. Many times you have posted things that W doesn't like about you, and realized that more importantly *you* don't think those things about you. Like, overreacting with W. You are aware of it and want to change it for yourself. Good job Ohio_Mark.

Hey Mark,

Glad to hear the dog is enjoying his new home and vice versa. Dogs know a good family when they see one. I agree with Rob, having your wife focus her attention on something new at home is better than a lot of alternatives she could find. She is still getting over the Bozo. Maybe when she recovers she will be happier at home. With her need for money, as you describe it, and two pets, she may not be as quick to try to separate as she has indicated in the past. But you need to get a better deal for you if she stays. She needs to be a lot nicer to you than she has been recently

Thanks to all for the support. Sometimes I need that 2 x 4 delivered to the side of my head to wake me up. Although it hurts like heck, I am grateful for the wake-up it delivered.

So... by popular demand, here is a link to pictures of the new puppy. This is my photobucket account, which includes a host of other pics, including my wife with her boyfriend.

There is a story behind the one of us standing in front of the Christmas tree. Our annual family tradition is to go out and cut down our own Christmas tree. We have been doing it for 14 years now. So this year, after heavy rains, we get our grubby clothes on and head out. So we pick the tree, and the guy helping us offers to take our photo. As we are getting ready, he says, "This can be next year's Christmas card!" And the wife mumbles, "Not likely."

Somehow she knew #3 would not be smiling...

OK, so here is the link:

My photos

Cute puppy - but even cuter kids. Boy they look like you Mark!!!!!

Post deleted by Ohio_Mark

Awwwww the puppy is very cute. She kind of looks like a peekapoo to me.

Your kid's are very cute. That daughter of yours I am sure can melt your heart in a minute. She is adorable!!! I think the picture I like the most of you is the one with the goatee. But I am a goatee kind of girl. lol I think it looks sexy on a guy.

Puppy is adorable. Shrek? Not so much. WTF?!

LOL sara - you always make me laugh.

Morning Saffie. Yes, Mark posted a good joke....or his wife did. My grandmother always said "love is blind, but the neighbors ain't." $;\)$

Sara -

He listens...

And Saffie - like the signature. Welcome to the club!!!

Of course, he listens. And then he fills in the blanks with the canned lines that he uses on every young woman he meets. $\:\($

Which club's that then Mark? I always been a member of the married to a cheating spouse club - well from 01/05 to 07/06 anyway. Hope it stopped then

Do you mean the signature club? I got confused because your signature didn't show up on your post

Oh, wow, Mark, what a cute puppy! I can tell you that it is a good thing that you did the 180 on the pup, because I'd find it horribly difficult to stand firm with such a cute little dog like that. Especially with the huge grins there on your even cuter, even more adorable children!

6 years ago my wife and I were in a similar situation that we are in now. 2 days before Christmas she called me from the pet store and told me she had found a dog that she fell in love with (we never saw eye to eye on bringing a dog into the house.) For the first time I realized that I didn't have any logical reason for not getting a puppy and so agreed she should bring him home.

That single 180 turned everything around and we began working on us. As I have since learned, real change takes real work - something neither of us understood (obviously). I remain hopeful that we will still have the opportunity to fix things the right way.

Cute kids Mark!!

A few years back, both of my friend's daughters were in school. She was feeling lonely with both of them being in school. She told her husband that she either wanted a new puppy or to have a baby to fill her time....They got the cutest miniature dachshund named Sugar that you ever saw! LOL I dont' know what she will do in a couple of years. One is at college now and one will be in a couple of years!

Wow Mark, how can you be anything but in love with that puppy??? $\:\)$ I am loving your 180. Kids are sooo adorable as well. #3 looks very much in love with her new friend.....

He does have some great looking kids, doesn't he? Puppy is pretty cute too!

Originally Posted By: Sara

... Shrek? Not so much. WTF?!

Yep. And WAW had dreams of being his 4th wife...

Mark - has your W had her eyes tested recently?

Needs a brain scan too. Didn't they have any older guys she could go after?

Rich one's close to death with no dependents - that's what I'm going for next time around $\:D$

I thought Saffie was going to bed....

She can't let us go. $\:\)$

Shrek? OMG, what was she thinking?

Ummm...is there something we don't know about him? Is he rich and close to death like Saffie likes 'em? I just don't see the attraction!

I noticed in the pic, the woman on the other side looks like she is trying to get away from him, very smart lady!

Yoyo -

I keep tellin' ya. He listens.

And when she sees that I posted that pic, she's gonna kill me...

Originally Posted By: Ohio_Mark

And when she sees that I posted that pic, she's gonna kill me...

So, is that why you posted it?

mark,

Wow.. lots has happend.. Sorry I wasn't here to listen... Ive had a migraine for 3 days...

Cute doggie.. and your kids are just so cute.. and she is a very stupid to let you go:)

Im glad that you decided to let it be. Sometimes it takes more energy to fight then to just leave things alone.. don't give her anymore of your energy, just try and maintain a positive outlook. Weather the storm.. like I know you have doing.. You will be ok with or without her. Your a strong person..

Thinking of you.

(((hugs)))

tal

Originally Posted By: Rob1231

Originally Posted By: Ohio_Mark

And when she sees that I posted that pic, she's gonna kill me...

So, is that why you posted it?

I have no suicidal tendencies.

However, she has told me that she fears that I am going to kill her.

But we all know, it's just a sign that cheating spouses cannot outrun guilt.

Does she read these boards?

Mark,

Those are really bad comments. You need to find a way to call a truce in the family. It's not war. You and she may no longer be lovers, but there is no reason you can't be friends. You need to find a way to be friends with her. Maybe not her best friend, as she won't allow that, but at least someone she does not fear. A person she feels safe with. That is a good thing to do at Christmastime.

My kids used to get angry at each other for wrongs that one committed against the other. And I had to admit, they were wrongs, not misunderstandings. But it didn't matter, we could not have a war within the family. I would force them to make up with each other and declare themselves friends. The anger would get forgotten after that and life went on.

Originally Posted By: saffie

Does she read these boards?

About three months ago, I was at home on the compter, and she looked over my shoulder and saw the DB banner at the top. At the time, I was snooping, and I saw that she had later visited the website, but did not come to this board. I sincerely believe that she thought I was a casual visitor, and not a "poster."

I am not concerned. She is not going to find me here.

Originally Posted By: Sara

Mark,
Those are really bad comments. You need to find a way to call a truce in the family. It's not war. You and she may no longer be lovers, but there is no reason you can't be friends. You need to find a way to be friends with her. Maybe not her best friend, as she won't allow that, but at least someone she does not fear. A person she feels safe with. That is a good thing to do at Christmastime.

Perhaps you misunderstood. She had these fears many months ago. I believe that these feelings of fear have passed, especially because she has broken up (as far as I can tell) with her boyfriend.

Life in our home is not hellish. There is little yelling, no throwing things, no name-calling... in fact, we argue less now than we did before she started cheating on me.

OK, good. Still, they say worse than hate is indifference. So you should not be satisfied with a state of indifference either. I know your wife says she is done and she is ending the marriage. But the truth is being a wife is what she does for a living. She needs the income you provide, and she is smart enough to know it. So she is not going anywhere fast, and in fact, may not ever go anywhere. I still think working on the dynamic between the two of you would be a good idea.

Sara -

I'm not at all satisfied with things at home. But the next move is hers to make.

She works and makes a decent buck. She also knows that her standard of living will go down about 3 notches if we were to split.

She has said over and over, "it's not about money!!" But I know women better than that. One of their top priorities is financial security for themselves and their children. She will have it with me. Without me? Not so much. She will be OK, but not good.

If she really wanted to divorce me, it would have been done already.

Hey Mark!

A week or two ago you talked about what to give your wife for Christmas. Perfume was mentioned and you said you could give her "Escape".

I was looking through the paper last night and saw that there's a new one out. It's call Unforgiveable! Seriously, it's by Sean John or Puffy or P-Diddy or what ever the heck the guy is calling himself these days. They have it for men and women so it could be a suggestion for a lot of our S's.

Hope you're having a good day!

Sue

its not all about financial security, though. its also about feeling loved and loving the person you are with. don't underestimate that.

its funny, when I found out about the affair one of the first things h said to me was that the reason I was upset was because of the standard of living I would lose. I was floored...it wasn't even on my mind at all. don't get me wrong, now I would say, yes, it is, but even now its not the most important thing. the most important thing to me was the love...losing it, letting it go, all of it. yes, I have a pretty nice life. yes it weighs heavily on my mind how I will live after all this is over. but honestly, I would have lived in a hovel with him...I would have done a lot of things, given up a lot of things. it was about him, about losing him, for me.

I know your wife and I are in very different places. obviously we are. but at the same time, don't assume its going to end up being about the lifestyle. and really, who wants someone who is only with you because of it?

Mark,

I think you could take a page from Husband's book. He has been the tortoise, moving so slowly toward his wife that she barely notices he's getting closer. But he has changed the tone of the house from one of hostility to a friendlier, happier place. I think you could do that too. You wife won't do it. You will have to be the magnanimous one at your house. But then, you have been for a long time.

Quote:

But I know women better than that. One of their top priorities is financial security for themselves and their children.

I find that quite insulting Mark. Don't judge all women by what you believe your wife's values are and maybe you are off base there too. If I thought my H thought he could keep me on that basis I would be out the F'ing door even if I had to feed my kids off of my horses dead body.

I buried a good friend today who was only 43 yrs old. She couldn't afford to leave her husband so she got a second job. It killed her. She bled to death whilst working. Some women will give there lives to get away from a bad marriage - she did.

Saffie -
I meant no offense by that comment. It is what I have been told by a number of different women. They told me (in so many words) that women tend to subconsciously gravitate toward a place of comfort and security for themselves and their children. It's not an intentional behavior; rather, something that they feel inside that pulls them to a safe, comfortable, and secure place.

Sorry... and I am sorry for your loss.

Poor Mark,

You seem to get beat up no matter what you say.

Yep. And here on DB as well....

saffie, don't get your whips out for Mr. Ohio_Mark just yet....I am sure he didn't mean it the way you read it. Darn Internet. I can see what he meant that women are naturally going to always be concerned that their children are taken care of and safe. It might be instinct for some women to think that first. Even if a woman thinks that first, it doesn't mean that she won't go out and fight for it herself, like your friend. Its just that initial thought..

Hi guys,

I can understand what you are all saying. I myself in my moments of anger lean towards the gender thing. Guess we all have our reasons.

But I am sure of one thing though, being all my life pragmatic, I have learned lately all the paradigms go away once we find that what we thought that could never happen to us, can actualy happen and makes no sense. When it's about love, there's no Mars and Venus, we are all from Earth.

I'm sorry Mark if I came on too strong. I was really beat up last night about my friend and your comment just made me flip.

What I wrote was the first thing I thought about when I woke up this morning - so I guess I knew I'd over reacted - sorry.

I guess a more temperate view would be that most of us crave security if we can have it, but not all of us do it the same way and it means different things to dufferent people. For a lot of us integrity goes hand in hand with it - I guess we wouldn't be here otherwise. If your wife were THAT unhappy I think she would make the bid for the 'escape' you mentioned she wanted before. She doesn't so things can't be 'that bad' for her. Pity she can't work on improving things because everyone in the family would benefit.

My friend tried that for years and just kept getting knocked back. I guess I was having one of those 'Life's too short to.....' days yesterday.

Saffie, Sorry to hear about your friend - what a tragedy. Hang in there!

Thanks Rob

Saffie, it was obvious to everybody here who knows you that you had a bad day, and what you wrote wasn't "you."

It was not a good day for you, and it's OK if I was your punching bag for a few minutes. I'm OK with it...I can take it!!!

Thanks for being so understanding Mark. $\:\)$

And I am still sorry.

Hi Mark,

Just checking in on you... Hope you are doing ok.

Tal:)

I'm OK.

Still stinging from Saffie's rebuke.

OK, OK, just kidding!!!! I am not thin-skinned.... Look no further than the thick-skinned response I am having to my cheating wife.

We are still in limbo. I am convinced that my wife will begin moving forward with the divorce after 1 January. We are polite to each other. No flirting, no pursuing. Nothing has changed.

Sorry to hear that. I wish things were different for you.

Thick-skinned.. ok that is an understatement. You have to be for what you are going through.

$\:\)$

tal

Not much going on here.... had a great GAL evening. I went out with some friends from work. When the evening wound down earlier that I had hoped, I hit the local watering hole to watch college basketball on the big screen. I rolled in around 11:00 - not too late.

The wife had lots of questions for me this morning regarding where I was and with who I was with. I was honest, but vague. I can tell she is still very, very angry with me. I made her do all of the cheating and lying - it's all my fault.

And the puppy, while cute and fun, is not doing the job for her. I can tell that she is lonely.

well of COURSE its all your fault, mark. gee, what do you think, its hers? lol.

yep, puppy ain't gonna fill that circle, mark's wife, is it? not by a long shot.

glad you had a good night, mark.

You rock, Mark!

mark,

Checking up.. Glad you had a good nite.. It just doesn't make sense.. about the questions that is.. They have some nerve even asking where you were after what they have done...

she's worried.. in a bazaar sort of way..

tal

Hey Ohio_Mark. Heard Time For Me To Fly today on the radio and thought of you. $\:\)$ Hope you are having a good weekend!

Merry Christmas Mark!

My hope for you as well as the rest of us is a 2008 that brings much more peace to our lives!

Have a wonderful time with your kids.

SueS

Thanks, Sue. Merry Christmas to you and everybody else here... at least those who celebrate Christmas. To all others, I wish a Happy New Year.

I took two pics of my daughter a few minutes ago. She is waiting for Santa to arrive... standing on a barstool, in her new jammies....

"I love Santa"

Adorable photos, Mark. Merry Christmas. I picked my daughter up at the airport tonight. She's asleep in her bed already, with one dog on the bed and another on the floor next to her. No one's worried about Santa. The dogs are just thrilled that she's home. It does make the house more of a home to have another one of my kids here. Only my oldest, S24 is not here, and he would be fighting with someone, probably me, if he were here. So it should be a fine Christmas, even though we don't really celebrate -- just have a big dinner. I hope things will go well at your house.

The holidays will crank up everyone's emotions and stresses to the max, Mark. Hang in there and get through them with the best smile and peace of mind you can, then settle back into your PMA and GALing for the new year. Make it a great one for yourself and your kids!

Mark-

I hope your Christmas went as well as possible.

Beautiful pictures of your daughter! She is absolutely adorable!

-Sue

Sue, thanks for the kind words.

Christmas was good. However, I am acutely aware that it represents the closing chapter to my family as I currently know it. I have made my final trip to the in-law's house. I absolutely expect that the wife will initiate the divorce after the first of the year. There's no turning back now. She wants me out of her life.

I am not moody or surly about this. I am not sad. I am depressed, but it really does not show. She has no clue how depressed I really am. My only face is happy, cheerful, and positive (OK, with occasional bursts of anger when the kids act up...). But I am giving her no real reason to say to herself, "See, this is why I need to get out!!!!"

Thank you all for the well wishes. TAL, Sally, Sara, Saffie, lwb, Rob, SueS... you are among my closest friends. I treasure you all.

How odd you said that about your in-laws. I felt on Christmas eve it was my last visit to her sister's house. Like a chapter closing. H doesn't understand why I can't continue to go to functions after this D occurs.....

I treasure you as well. You and other DB men have restored my faith in men, honestly.

I wonder how many of us will have the trigger pulled once the holidays come to a close....

Mark,

You know we are here for you in any way we can be.

(((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Agree on the in-laws. This Xmas, OM went with W and kids to their house. I'm completely stunned at how they just accept him as is.

I hope 08 is better for all!!

Originally Posted By: saffie

Mark,

You know we are here for you in any way we can be.

Uhhh, be careful, Saffie. It's been 263 days....

I'd have to be good to travel all that distance for - not that my H has any complaints

merry christmas mark! (are you around or are you halfway to MO or the UK by now? lol)

hope you had a nice day yesterday. did your wife at least feign grace over her gifts? hopefully she showed some appreciation, you were so thoughtful getting them for her.

take care. hope all is well.

Sally -

Yeah, I am around. At home with the kids - the wife is out shopping (it's #40 for her today).

And thanks for asking about the gift. She was pleasantly surprised with the gift certificate. Today I give her the mother's necklace. We will see how that goes... stay tuned.

Mark-

I sent you an email. Can you give your opinion if you have a minute?

Thanks- Sue

Response already sent....

How'd it go???

Mark also curious how did the necklace go? Did she give you something for Christmas? Is the ice lady melting any with it being her birthday? Maybe you could give her one of those over the hill cards. LOL!!!

Ice is as thick as ever. She put very little thought into my gift (a jacket). And it didn't fit. No fault of hers - it's the same size that I would have bought for myself. So I got that and a DVD (movie).

The necklace was a hit. She put it on immediately. Here is a pic:
Birthday present

But she never expressed any gratitude. This is not like her, really. But she's in quite a fog now.

I expect divorce talk to resume in less that three weeks. She wants to file, and get away from me. I am so horrible...

Whatever....

The necklace is pretty. Glad it was a hit. At least ice woman did buy you a gift. She could have been nastier.

Mark if she wanted to file she could have already done it. Try not to assume the worst. Although I know tyou have to mentally prepare yourself. I am so sorry you are feeling depressed. I know this has to hurt. Just keep in mind your a good man and have tried hard. Mark maybe it would be a good thing for her to see the damaged side of you. Meaning what this has done to you. Or what you are honestly feeling. Maybe it wouldn;t help. But maybe just maybe it could. : (

Originally Posted By: tryingtoholdon

The necklace is pretty.

It's a very nice piece. Genuine silver....with simulated birthstones of the kids. The real deal would have cost $500 more... And nobody would be able to tell the difference.

Originally Posted By: tryingtoholdon

She could have been nastier.

For my birthday (in July) I got a t-shirt and a DVD. Thanks for the effort...

Originally Posted By: tryingtoholdon

Mark if she wanted to file she could have already done it. Try not to assume the worst. Although I know you have to mentally prepare yourself.

I agree that if she really wanted to file, she would have done so already. The irony here is that she is scared of the divorce. And I am not.

Originally Posted By: tryingtoholdon

Mark maybe it would be a good thing for her to see the damaged side of you. Meaning what this has done to you. Or what you are honestly feeling. Maybe it wouldn't help. But maybe just maybe it could. : (

I disagree on this one. She needs to see me as strong and confident. Showing weakness will give her another excuse. I need to be myself. Being phony (weak, needy, depressed, moody) will drive her away. And being "me" has nothing to do with her. It's who I am. Whether she likes it or not.

But thank you, thank you, thank you for the input. I treasure it. I really do.

Hey, Mark,

At least a t-shirt and a DVD took a little forethought.

Do you want to know what my W got me? Three of the boxes of chocolate that my S6 has been selling for his school fundraiser (he had already asked me did I want to buy some.)

Very last minute.

Still, after giving both my W and the MIL some nice gifts in the name of my S's, I really hadn't expected anything at all from them. No expectations = no disappointments. I was just amused at what they had scrambled to come up with.

Originally Posted By: NoCodeBlues

I really hadn't expected anything at all from them. No expectations = no disappointments.

NoCode,

YES.... This is the way to look at it. For our annv. I bought a necklace, Made a special dinner, got her a nice card...... and what did I get???? Dirty dishes....
But like you said it was ok. I was not hurt.... I went and played pool with my son... He geve me a smile that was worth more than any card she could have given me..

Hey Mark,
Hang in there bud. The way I look at it is the new year is comming and I think change is around the corner one way or another And I think you might be like me and just want it to go one way or the other. this changing lanes thing really sucks.

(STILL have you beat 365 plus (unless you count that Kiss I got)

Husband