I was almost a WAW (and still am-- in my heart?)

[AmyC]

Cemar, I was just joking! I have sent three post and then deleted them. At first, I was mad, then I cried, and now......I just don't know what to say. I don't want to think about the OM or what I did to motivate him. I'm trying my best NOT to think about him. I flirted, I teased, I did things I'm not proud of and had rather forget about. I'm having a hard time forgiving myself and I refuse to dwell on what took place between me and the OM.

What took place between you and om took place for one of the following reasons:

Your destruction

or

Your enlightenment.

YOU - and only you - get to decide which.

This is where He sets to turning things that were meant for your destruction around for your good. If you do not ever think about the time you spent interacting with om, life-changing realizations and lessons will elude you.

There's a blessing in every storm.
Don't be afraid to look back there to find yours.
THAT is where blessings were BORN.

And there is no shame in that when you're on this side, Sandi.
You might have once been a tool of the enemy but now you're standing in the light. An Overcomer. And yes, overcoming is something you do AGAIN AND AGAIN.

I don't even try to keep up with your thread anymore, Sandi.
I just jump in when I feel like it.

Hang in there lady.
And those things you said about yourself to cemar, THEY ARE ALL YOU and they are nothing to be ashamed of.


Peace,
Amy

[imLIN]

kml...
H said he felt like he was getting too much thyroid hormone...I can't remember what he said his symptoms were but at the time I remember him telling me about it....
The blood tests in May are what triggered the reduction...then another after the test in June...he says he is feeling pretty good right now except he still has NO libido...and that was the case before AD's...he is doing some better with AD's now then he was before....
Is there more we should be asking the Dr?...We go to Kaiser and his Dr is very nice and always takes his time with us so if there is something that might help I am sure I could talk to him about it....

Thank you so much...you really are providing an valuable service to those of struggling with these issues...whether personally or with our spouses...


Name Standard Range 5/4/07 6/20/07
T4 FREE 1.37 1.59 H
Name Standard Range 5/4/07 6/20/07
TSH 0.06 L 0.11 L

His testerone reading was 556 on 6/20/07

[imLIN]

Sandi...I don't think you really realize how strong you are...yes, even physically...and you probably don't realize what a valuable asset you are to many who are struggling to understand their WAS...W or H...you...and only those like you are really able to see and to bare your soul and be so raw with it all is really what so many need to see...it will help them in their own journey...

Keep it going...Lin

[sandi2]

Thanks to imLin and AmyC.....my girlfriends. You are the two of the best and it was you two (among some others of course) that got my eyes open to the truth. I will always be grateful to that.

[Dom R]

hi sandi,

just got on for the morning, and happened to reread an older post of yours. i noticed something:

After the GS was older and not staying over all the time, H was still sleeping in front room. 21 years later.....he still chooses to do that. I told him how I felt and he had not explaination really.....nothing of any weight. I took it as a sign of neglect and laziness to work on the R.

I notice that you used past tense in your analysis: you "took it as"...

hopefully, you now realize that your assumption about him, was incorrect.

[sandi2]

Why would I assume any differently now? He has not changed his sleeping pattern or offered any explaination when I've asked.

As I've said, I have been thinking about when the breakdown in our R started and the resentment started. I remember the very first time he did not go to bed with me and chose to stay up and watch TV. I was pregnant, living in the house with MIL, and we had been married around 4-5 months at the time. I felt so crushed and neglected b/c that was the only time we had to ouselves! Some of his relatives were over at that house all the blessed time. I needed those precious few moments alone with him in our little bedroom.....(even if it did have a walk-through closet between the room to his mother's and she could hear everything). I cried myself to sleep that night. I was under so much stress being a new bride, just getting pregnant, living in a house with people around me all the time.....absolutely no privacy, plus he never went anywhere with me nor ever wanted to do anything for fun. He sat at the table, drank coffee, smoked, talked to his mama, and watched TV. That was his life! And.....it still is minus the smoking and the MIL. Only now, he does go to church. We had no friends, no social life.........God, I could go on for hours.

Yes, I am resentful. Yes, I am having a hard time forgiving and forgetting almost 42 years of neglect. As I have said, I was always the one trying to add "spice" to the MR......not "Mr. Bump on a Log"! I needed that emotional intimacy so badly that first year of M! I practically begged him for it....but he couldn't do it and as a result, my body shut down to him and I couldn't respond to him sexually. But, then I was the bad one! When I tried to talk.....he wouldn't even acknowledge me by looking at me when I talked. He wouldn't answer me when I asked him a question. He just stared at the TV. But, his answer was always the same.....just have more sex and that would solve the problems of the world!

Sorry, DomR, I just get so tired of it all. I think he needs to take his share of the responsibility of the breakdown of the M and he doesn't. He doesn't think he has done one thing wrong. Well, I just don't know if I can get the grit and grace to overcome all of that and respond to him sexually or not. We are talking about a lot of years of neglect to meet emotional needs. Yes, I did not meet his needs sexually.....but neither were mine met either. I tried over and over to tell him that if he would only meet me half-way and compromise and come to bed with me and hold me and talk to me that I could respond to him sexually. One time.........one time....he tried it and it was the best night of our entire M. I'll never forget it as long as I live. And all he had to do was talk to me. I was on cloud nine. You would think that he could see what a difference a small gester like that would make, wouldn't you? He never did it again.

He still has not given me a reason why he stopped ML to me eleven years ago just as I began to feel like I was enjoying it more. I almost climaxed! I was so happy to think I even came close. He never touched me intimately again.

So, you want to talk about resentment? I'll talk resentment till the cows come home. I'm not perfect and never claimed to be, but I am sick and tired of being the one that gets blamed for the "problem" in our M (which means the lack of sex)!

I didn't move out of the bedroom.....he did. I didn't stop having the sex just as it was getting good....he did. So, yeah, I'm resentful and you can tell me it is poison and how unhealthy it is all day, but I don't know how to get past this when he can't just say, "I'm sorry for hurting you all these years". And to think he was so "hurt" b/c I didn't run to him to say the same thing when he found out about OM. Well, when he brought it up, I did say that I was sorry for hurting him, but do you want to know what he did? He just nodded his head in agreement. Then he said that he had done nothing wrong and had done everything he knew to do to make me happy and nothing worked! Oh really? Strange......I've been trying to tell him for 4 decades what it would take to make me happy. But, those are the things he didn't want to try to do.

Ok, now I feel better and you are probably sorry for bringing up the subject of resentfulness. Sorry, you didn't bring up the subject.....I did. Okay, you thought perhaps my assumption about him had changed. Well, it hasn't!

It is just amazing to read all these posts from men and how they do not listen to their W trying to tell them for years that they are not happy and then when she walks away......OMG, they are so hurt! Well, gee whiz! Now, grant you, some WAW's are sorry and that is just the plain truth of the matter, but then there are some that I feel have a certain amount of justification. I didn't say she had a right to have an A or anything like that....I just mean that she shouldn't have to put up with crap when her sorry H won't listen or even try to work on the R. If he is a sorry so & so, then I have to feel compassion for her. My H is not a sorry so & so and that is why it hurts and that is why I still love him and that is why I am still here with him and have not walked away. But, as my title says, I am still a WAW in my heart. I am still dealing with it and I have these moments that the anger flares and I need to get it off my chest. Sorry I used you for a sounding board, sweetie.

[Dom R]

Well hi there...
good thing I didnt read this yesterday, i think

good thing you actually let that out.

ok. Now.. it's out there. What do you want to do about it?

here's the thing:
YES. Your husband has problems.
YES. His actions contributed in part, to the sad state of intimacy , or lack thereof, that you two are now in.

NO. you do not know his motivations for his actions.

Even today, Men. Are. Dumb. when it comes to relationships.
Nowadays, they at least realize that they're "supposed to do something". Even though they dont know what it is.
But a man born in the 1940s, probably didnt even realize that he was supposed to do something.
His role is "to go to work, and support the family".

But, his answer was always the same.....just have more sex and that would solve the problems of the world!

And, as a man, I believe that was truely his belief at the time. he was trying to do what he thought would improve things between you two... you refused... and that was the end of his repertoire.
There was nothing else that he understood how to do. so he gave up.
[well, that... and living with his MOTHER didnt help things either.... brrr.. shudder]

So here's the thing:
He's a typical product of a 1940's male child. he doesnt know how/isnt comfortable talking about his feelings. He barely even recognizes that he has any deeper level emotions (that stuff is girly, squash it down, it doesnt exist).

He is dependant on a 1940's style female, to be able to draw him out, and do all the emotional "grunt work", to fix the relationship.
The negatives: you have to be the relationship driver
The positives: if you do it, he will follow, because he knows that's what he's "supposed to do".

So. What are you going to do?
Do you want to go find a 30ish year old man, who is "in touch with his feelings", and a great "emotional communicator"?
Or would you rather stick with fulfilling the role you signed up for when you got married, and lead your old warhorse, to a better place with you?

[RealJourney]

Hi Sandi, I hope you felt better after getting that out. It's hard to handle all the bad memories that have been built up through the years. I know when a trigger comes up, it's going to take me to a bad place. I think it's the mind's way of protecting itself as we make attempts to move forward, and my mind is a steel trap that way.

For every awful recollection I can come up with, there is a matching one within my H somewhere. It's not as readily accessible to him, but it's there. And over time, he and I have developed different versions of the same event; for instance, he will say that he confronted the sex issue with me, and I do not recall this at all. Some things just won't get resolved.

The way I got through the past is by attempting to make the present better. The memories still come in my mind, but they don't have as much bite. And yeah, every now and then I need a good vent too.

One other thing...I know you are working on forgiving your H...the other part to this is learning to forgive yourself for allowing what happened in the past to happen. There is anger towards your spouse, but there's anger towards the self as well. The good news is that you have the knowledge now to create a happier future...and that is exciting.

[Dom R]

He wouldn't answer me when I asked him a question. He just stared at the TV. But, his answer was always the same.....just have more sex and that would solve the problems of the world!

if you havent already.. i think that you really need to read this thread, right here in SSM forum.

"Scheduling Saved my Life"
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1220075&page=1


And in particular, his much shorter summary post,

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...w=1#Post1220218

[sandi2]

I guess yesterday was "Sandi is a bitch today, so watch out!" I must have still been pissed when I read what Forrest Gump said to Littlebitlost....and I blew another gasket.

Sometimes, I feel that the men that are the LBS act so darn self-righteous that I just want to throw-up....and I guess that is what I did yesterday. And, I know before I even say this that you are goint to tell me that it is an excuse.....but, I get tired of the men asking me what am I going to do about my M, when I feel like it has been me doing anything that was ever done for all these years. I could be wrong (probably am) but I don't remember the women that are LBS asking me what I plan to do about my M now. Don't you find that rather strange??? I suppose I didn't get it all out of my system yesterday. It still ticks me off for the man to still think I should be the one to fix things. I don't feel like you heard a word I said (just like my H never listen to me either)! Since I am puking all over the place again, I might as well go ahead and say this.....when the WAW comes on here (which God help her) she need not expect much compassion (even though, that God, I did find a few) b/c some LBS (not all) are going to give you hell and you are damned if you do and damned if you don't and they don't give a damn if you like it or not....you can get the hell of this board.....their (some, not all) attitude is that this board is mostly for the LBS (as I recall one telling me to look at who does most of the posting) well...duh! We WAW's don't come on here so the LBS can have a punching bag to take the frustrations out on (like I'm doing you at the moment)! And, DomR, I am not directing all this at you.....I am hurt and mad and I am still trying to get this out of my system (I just hope you'll still be my friend after I puke on you). Some LBS's attitude seems to be "Don't expect anything but hate from us, b/c it is all the WAS's fault that the M ended. You were the one that chose to leave instead of staying and working it out." That is not true! Just b/c a spouse stays does not mean they are "working"!! Sometimes it means they don't give a care, but that ain't moving. However, they sure know how to make the other S's life hell on earth.....so no wonder one finally has to leave to stay sane! I notice the men (husbands) that chose to leave so the wife can stay in the home is not blasted half-way off the board for doing what he did...oh no, he isn't the WAS!!!.....at least not in the eyes of the other men b/c it was the wife that wanted to end the M! So, there you go.

I have even wondered after reading some other posts if some (not all) men feel justified in telling us WAW's all these things we need to do about our M, since it was our fault that the M failed, and since they are so bitter about their stitch and can't get past their own resentment toward their own W.
Like I said yesterday, I can talk resentment for a very long time!

Ok, I'll try to calm down now......

It goes back, partly, to beeing told in so many words over all these years that I am to blame for the M not being better...and of course you remember why (not enough sex) no matter what I did to improve in that department, it was not good enough.....it was still my fault.

I took a chance by coming here to this board and I thank God every day that He made sure the "right" people talked to me first....or I would have done the very same thing as "possibleWAW" did several days ago....and you would never have heard from me again. And, what breaks my heart is that I am almost certain that I would have had a PA with OM. I wanted to help her and stop her from doing that very thing....like I was helped.

We may not have the "tools" that some have suggested or even be "looking for the tools" as some have suggested, but I don't agree with that thinking. If we weren't--why on earth would we take a chance by coming here? I saw two women at the same time leave this board from the same thread. So, yeah, I'm upset that people that have been here a lot longer than I have could not have a little more patient to help a lost person. Then, I try to move on to another post of another WAW that I "thought" was new and had just started, but apparently she was just starting another thread or something, I don't know, but I thought I was going to her rescue when what appeared that Forrest was getting to hard on her.......only to discover it wasn't, she wasn't and so on. Anyway, maybe I just need to leave for a few days. Apparently, I'm the one with the touchy problems.....(plus the other two women that left the other day).

Dom, friend, I know you are trying to help me or you would not take the time of day to bother with me. I have repaid you by being ugly and for that, I am sorry......truly. I am old and tired and I found out that my six year old granddaughter has inherited my fibromyalgia and she could have a spastic colon or it could be the fibro.....who knows. But nobody in this state will treat a child for fibromyalgia, so my doctor told me. It breaks my heart. It breaks my heart about a lot of things. Life is so unfair and I think that is one thing we all (WAS & LBS) can agree upon.

Again, I guess it sounds like I'm finding excuses......I'm still just spewing. Please forgive me for being ugly. I will come back in two or three days with a different attitude....I promise.