Good morning all. Many of you will point out that I am a co-dependent. I know. I am working to rectify that.
I started posting on this site back in February 2006 due to my ill-advised decision to seek what I felt I was missing from my marriage in the arms of a woman other than my W. W found out about my A and immediately wanted a D. I understand that the hurt that I caused was/is devastating, and I apologized profusely, promised this would never happen again, worked diligently on improving me, held out hope for forgiveness, and worked to reconcile our M alone.
To make a really long story somewhat shorter, we separated in February 2006, and our D was final in July 2007. From the time of S til now, W had 3 different BFs and all of that was difficult to watch because she was allowing herself to be hurt and worse, subjecting our 2 children (ages 2 & 7 now) to these men.
During her time with BF #2 and #3, when she would have a fight with them and be 'done', she would call on me and not being very good at DBing, I'd come to her 'emotional rescue' like a big dummy. In all honesty, I don't know what being more distant would have accomplished, but I do know that doing it my way ended in my D.
With the last BF, someone she knew 15 years ago in HS, she got involved with him and he went to jail for 5 months. She later told me that they were just casually seeing e/o b4 he went in but their R became serious while he was inside jail. I joked with her during his stint that if I had known that the way to solidify a R with her was to 'do some time', I would have busted her in the mouth on the altar. Seriously though, two things: (1) yes, I do realize that I was the one who had an affair; and (2) I would never and have never raised my hand to her in anger.
Sorry for the side bar. Back to my sitch.
While BF3 was in jail, XW (W at the time) moved all of his stuff into her place where she lives with my children half time, all the while saying she didn't know what she was going to do with BF3's stuff when he got out of jail. Ri-i-i-i-ight!! I knew what she was going to do, she bailed him out and moved him in! I told her that I refused to go to her place with BF3 there. I didn't want to see him because I had had a close call of an altercation in January 2007 with him (right before he went to jail) and didn't want to rely on her to tell the truth when our next altercation really did become physical.
Next, according to her, after all of their jail mail love letters and his promises to change, she quickly figured out that he was full of it and had no intention (or ability?) to change. He lived there with them for about 6 weeks and the second domestic violence incident in consecutive weekends occurred with my children at the residence. A 911 call was made and BF3 was arrested.
Subsequently, XW went to jail to see him! Unbelievable! Anyway, he gets out within a few weeks and all charges have been dropped. I asked her to file a restraining order and she wouldn't, not even for the children. She insisted that BF3 would NEVER harm our children and I snapped back that you would have NEVER thought he would have been violent with you before he did, correct? You have NO idea what that little troll may do next. I was pissed.
FF, she starts seeing him again and visiting his family (on the sly; oh, she's so sneaky ). At this point he is living with his brother. Over time, BF3 starts coming over more and more (invited I am sure) and refusing to leave when asked to do so. And, you guessed it...I was asked to come over on a Sunday in October 2006 and ask him to get out because he wouldn't leave despite her requests for him to do so. I did so (yes, like a dummy). Then, on that same Wednesday, XW said BF3 would not leave her house and she wanted to go home and not see him there. I went over again (yes, I know) and asked him to leave.
THEN, two days later on Friday in the AM, I was calling XW and I couldn't reach her. I called her house and BF3 answered the phone. Mind you, two days prior I had to go to XW's place to get him out and now he's back in her house alone. I was pissed and called XW on her cell phone again. This time she answered. The conversation went like this:
me: who is at your house right now? her: <stammering> wha, wha, how, how do you know? me: how is irrelevant. do me a favor and stop calling me to save you. clearly you don't want to be saved. her: <again stammering> wait, wait (trying to explain) me: we'll just swap our children and leave it at that.
The next day, Saturday, I am home doing my laundry at midnight (yeah, I am a real live-wire, huh?!) and I get a call from XW.
her: what are you doing? me: nothing. what do you want? her: are you busy? are you alone? me: what's going on? her: can you come over? me: are you hurt? her: I just need you to come over. can you come over right now? (my children are there)
I tell her I am on my way in 5 minutes. When I get there, there are two sheriff's cars in the driveway and I find out that two other sheriff's cars had previously already left. One of the officers was the same from XW's June call regarding domestic violence, and this one was for DV as well. THAT officer was not happy with her choices. Nor was I.
XW and my two year old were at the home and were physically fine, but XW was terrorized by BF3 verbally, psychologically and physically. Sad thing is, that's why organizations like W.E.A.V.E. exist, to help physically and emotionally battered; even those who put themselves and their loved ones in harm's way. Luckily, my D7 was at her girlfriend's house spending the night. Unfortunately, both of my children were home for the June incident with BF3.
Anyway, this time she filed the restraining order at the behest of the sheriff's deputy. And that brings us into November 2007.
More of my saga to follow soon, and trust me, there's LOTS more 'stuff' . I need to give you all background information on me and my sitch so that hopefully some of you will be able to help me through the stormy waters in which I find myself treading.
Letting Go Tom; JUST DO IT! previously hopeful_husband
my A: Fall 05 W found out: Feb 06; separated immediately W pursued D, final 7/11/07
That's quite a story!! I'm so sorry you and your kids are going through all this.
This has nothing to do with your story... but I noticed you're from Sacramento. Me too! It's funny, I've been on here over a year and hadn't run across anyone local, and now know of several people in the area. The posters MichelleLT and 789 are from this area, too. I'll be working on putting together a Northern CA get together in January - I'll post details in the Just for Fun forum, but it'd be great if you're intersted in going!
In case you'd like to email me - here's my email address (take out the spaces/line breaks, I do it to "hide" from Google):
nikki b at surewest .net
Hope we can be of help to you once you get to the point of needing specific advice.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
I didn't mention this in the my first post, but I do still love my XW very much and I want her. But I recently read an article about men sometimes ignoring their own needs in a relationship and being blinded by their wants, which ultimately compromises the man's happiness and satisfaction in life. I am wrestling with this concept in my own head, and I welcome your thoughts at any time on this subject.
October 2007- The Sunday following DV#2, XW asked me to help her move all of BF3's belongings from the home and into the garage for his friends/family to pick up. XW was afraid to move back home because of her recent experience with BF3 and she and her mother devised their plan that I was to move back into her home with her and the children.
XW thought about that for a very short time and decided that she was going to move in with me, which I was fine with with me (again, I know!) as I wanted to help her to feel safe and I wanted my children to be safe after being subjected to living with BF3. XW ended up staying with me until the end of November.
November 2007- I attended the hearing for the restraining order with W. BF3's lawyer (family friend) and twin brother show up, but BF3 is (supposedly) in re-hab for his addictions. XW begins himming and hawing about not knowing where BF3 is in re-hab to serve him with the judgment granting the restraining order. I logically understand what she is saying, but I am having serious difficulty understanding this woman at all. My thoughts are the same as when she wouldn't get the restraining order back in July. She was weighing whether or not to see him again, is my thought. I hoped not, but SICK!
During the month of November, I communicated semi-regularly with BF3's brother to retrieve all of BF3's stuff from the house. Mind you, I offered to do this back in July after DV #1 when when she was on vacation with our children and while he was in jail for 2+ months, but XW was still 'hooked' on BF3, even after calling the sheriff on him for DV #1.
Mid-November- XW comes to me with her new plan, which is for me to move back into her house with her and the children because she still didn't feel safe and having me there would help her to feel safe. I agreed. Then I listened to her b*tch, moan, whine and complain about the shame crap I had to listen to while we were married. I stopped her and told her that all of this change was affecting me too and that couldn't take her changes of heart regarding MY living situation in the days leading up to the move.
December 2007- She finally relented, but on the first evening in the house, I made dinner for the children and we were in the middle of eating dinner when she came home. She then proceeded to clean up the kitchen and make it obvious that she was pissed that the kitchen was 'dirty.' After my not engaging in her storm, I approached her calmly and told her that (1) I had gotten home late and was focused on getting dinner ready for our children, NOT tidiness, (2) I intended on cleaning the entire kitchen after the children had been put to bed for the night, (3) I never intended to piss her off nor did I expect her to clean up the kitchen, (4) some of the 'things' she was upset about had nothing to do with me using the kitchen, and (5) I would greatly appreciate being asked questions rather than having her making assumptions and then storming around in her assumption-filled huff. When I stayed calm and didn't match her anger, she came down and was able to talk and we made some agreements that would serve us both better going forward.
I asked her about serving BF3 with the judgment from her restraining order hearing OR finding out from her consultant from W.E.A.V.E. how long the 'stay away' order lasted and XW basically told me that that is HER business and she would appreciate if I didn't hound her about the issue because it had all been such an emotional situation for her. My 'hounding' consisted of asking her ONE time! I've let it go for now.
XW came home and was had a very serious look on her fa ce. She proceeded to tell me that she was pregnant with BF3's child and that she had elected to terminate the pregnancy. I accompanied her to the doctor for support. Sad situation from all to experience.
November and December 2007- Child Protective Services (CPS) visits. XW had a visit after DV #1 and with DV #2 we have had more and now 'a file' has been opened under her name in their department. Interesting department and process, but scary nonetheless.
Xmas Eve- Took XW to my family party. XW was drinking (not really a problem) and was flirty with male members of my family. She really only caused me minor concerns with her behavior, but she caused major concern with my SIL, who hosted the party. I read an e-mail from SIL on 12/27 detailing what SIL witnessed.
Anyway, on the way home, XW and I had 'relations' and did so again when we arrived home (she initiated all). XW told me that she was embarrassed and that she didn't remember much. My thoughts on this, and correct me if I'm wrong ladies, are that she remembers fine, but the alcohol makes it easer to claim 'not remembering' vs. owning the decisions she made that evening.
Christmas- Very nice day. Lots of fun with the children and with her family. I spoke with XW a few days later regarding this and I told her that THAT wouldn't be happening again with 'us' unless everything was radically different and much better between 'us.' We'll see. I'm not the best DBer and I'm pretty certain I wouldn't stop 'it' from happening again regardless. Honestly, I want it to, but fear that that will cause her to shut off completely from me. Again, your thoughts are welcomed and encouraged.
I look forward to 2008 being a better year than '06 & '07 for me and mine. It's up to me to make it that way. Sadly, I am terribly perplexed by my XW and her incessant 'need' to lean on my for stability and support. Perhaps, even though we are already divorced, I should DB in earnest. I also know that living with her ATM will make DBing much more difficult, but not terribly so. However, she does have a propensity to make 'rules' for me, and of course, make her own determinations that she has no 'rules.' Ah well, I tangled web I have woven and chosen.
If you read this far, I thank you. Bye for now. Pretty sure my future posts will be MUCH shorter.
Letting Go Tom; JUST DO IT! previously hopeful_husband
my A: Fall 05 W found out: Feb 06; separated immediately W pursued D, final 7/11/07
I read through your thread....sorry you are here. You situation sounds somewhat similar to mine, that she likes knowing you are there, but shows mixed signals that she wants to move forward with you. Very Very Confusing!
I don't have much to offer other than support during a difficult time.
Wish you luck and happiness!
CIAZ M 7/97 S 5/05 D 8/06 Both 33 years old No kids
Yes, to say that I am confused greatly understates my present state of mind. Christmas Eve takes the cake, though. And to say that she is embarrassed AND doesn't remember 'much' only adds to the confusion; in my mind anyway. Perhaps she knows exactly what she was and is doing and getting exactly what she wants and I am simply blinded by my feelings for her. Who knows? I don't.
I have been given 'advice' all over the board by friends, many of whom have known her much longer than I, and they are even more confused by her erratic, confusing, contradictory behavior and words. Much of the advice is centered around my own co-dependence/sickness where it comes to my XW and (as they see it) my need to stay free and clear of the 'spell' she clearly has over me.
I was feeling much more stable and settled in my own place for 1.5 years as our journey to the big D marched on. THEN, BF3, or DH3 as I like to number her BFs, came into the picture and she fell hard for this loser-troll who eventually showed enough of his true colors to remove the 'attraction' glasses she was wearing while she was 'with' this, uhhhhhh, person.
XW was deathly afraid of DH3 due to his threats, intimidation and verbal, physical, and psychological abuse. XW would often say that she was going to call on her 'good' male friends to escort DH3 out, but when push came to shove, she only called one person...me, alone. (SIDEBAR: During our time apart XW has befriended or re-acquainted herself with old male 'friends' ALL of whom are clearly less than desirable 'friends', yet they are all lumped together in her words as "GOOD FRIENDS!" Such GOOD FRIENDS that she can't rely on any of them to help her in her time of need. NONE!) This happened several times, but I was not concerned for my safety, I was concerned for her safety and my children's safety due to her stupid choices.
Regardless, towards the end, DH3 began telling XW that he was going to hurt me if she didn't do what he wanted. She said she was afraid of what he would do and I pointed out that every time I went over to 'save' her he gave me a wide berth, plus he had a few opportunities to be alone with me to 'start something' and made the wise decision to keep his mouth shut and keep his hands to himself. I told her, HE is afraid of ME. Trust me.
In any event, she did not want to move back home without me because, for whatever reason, with me comes her feeling of safety. Mind you, I never laid a hand on that little troll, but I always got the calls to come and 'save' her from the ramifications of her choices. Will someone please illuminate WHY I am the person she calls when she was so hell bent on divorcing me and had soooooooooooooooo many GOOD MALE FRIENDS?
A female friend of mine said, "She didn't divorce you (in order) to get back together with you." This statement was made right after I moved back in with XW and our children. I am sure there is a lot of truth in that and I am also sure that only XW truly knows why she 'needed' me to move back in, at this point.
Tonight my friend says it's because XW wants to 'try' again. I don't truly know and I've often been told I'm 'kinda thick' when it comes to me recognizing a woman has an interest in me. Plus this woman is my XW! I'd love for it to be real, that she is giving us a 'try' with me living with her again and her being able to look at the possibilities of us working out without needing to commit to a romantic relationship with me and w/o needing to make a 'public' declaration that she wants to try to work things out with me; to see if my 'changes' are real or just BS. To 'save face' with all of the people she character assassinated me with if she had a change of heart.
I also don't fully understand the depths of HER pain, disappointment, and distrust from my affair, because she won't talk to me about anything real and I DO NOT push it. Certainly NO R talk. At this point, I take what I can get from her. I would love for her to forgive me, but I know that she is the only person who can do that. She says she has, but she clearly hasn't. Life and screw ups can be so painful and complicated! I never expected her to forget nor condone my transgressions. Some 'things' are inexcusable, but nothing is unforgivable.
I know that there is very little positive I can do for our relationship at this point, except work on making myself more attractive TO HER and take care of our children. Now, I DO know that there's a whole lot I can do to mess up anything that is happening right now that even remotely looks positive.
Now more confusing stuff, as pointed out by my friend. I was asked why all the bed 'swapping' has been happening over here 'all' the time? XW is asleep in my bed right now because she was watching a movie with our D7 and D7 began acting 7! XW became annoyed and irritable (tired from feeling ill). I saw it happening and saw the annoyed look on XW's face and I approached her and quietly asked her what I could do to make the situation better for her.
XW's response was irritated and pointed, telling me that she no longer wanted to watch a movie with our D7. I asked her what she wanted to do and she told me she wanted to watch Pan's Labyrinth on DVD. I asked her what room she wanted to watch the movie in and I thought I heard her say in her room. I asked her where the DVD was and she told me it was in HER room. I went to her room to get the DVD and waited for her but she never came. Apparently, she said she wanted to watch it in MY room. I brought the DVD into my room and started the movie for her and left the room.
I checked on her later and she was asleep. I let her sleep more and then awoke her to get her assistance to apply 'pink eye' medication to our S2's eyes. She was awake enough to tell me we could do it in the morning and stayed in my bed. This doesn't bother me, but my friend's 'take' on the 'bed swapping' and me moving back in with my family are mutually exclusive. They both can't reasonably co-exist. NOT wanting to get back together (but wanting me to move back in) PLUS the level of comfort and ease with the 'bed swapping' in our home because she wants to 'try' again. Nope; definitely mutually exclusive. Hopefully, someone can help me clarify my 'muddy' sitch, at least in my mind.
We've been separated/divorced for 2 birthday and holiday seasons and have spent all of them celebrating together as a 'family', broken as it is and has been. Now for the kicker. XW told me tonight, while I was cooking myself dinner, that she was going to make a fantastic dinner for the family (me included) on New Year's Eve! WOW! The last 2 NYE's she did her own thing and I spent them with our children. Regardless, I am really happy about having all of us together on NYE this year.
Please offer any thoughts and/or words of encouragement as I try to reconcile my R with my XW. Thank you.
p.s. I know, this post wasn't shorter than the first 2, sorry. Less background, more current events/feelings going forward. Thanks.
Letting Go Tom; JUST DO IT! previously hopeful_husband
my A: Fall 05 W found out: Feb 06; separated immediately W pursued D, final 7/11/07
I can hardly believe it's 2008 already. WOW! I look forward to making my life better on all fronts: personally, professionally, recreationally, and bettering myself personally, including spiritually.
NOTES RE: XW INTERACTIONS:
New Years Eve was wonderfully fun. I spent it with XW, D7 and S2 making/eating dinner together, and hanging out playing Guitar Hero III, singing karaoke and drinking (of course). It was a VERY nice time. I was very happy spending the time with all of them having a great time.
New Years Day XW stayed in bed because she drank too much, but she told me the next day it was because she was depressed because she was too drunk on NYE evening to get up early enough to go. This declaration that she was too depressed to get out of bed reminded me of our time together when I would get up both weekend mornings and she would stay in bed 'til noon or 1 PM. Perhaps she was too depressed being married to me? I don't know, but that certainly struck me hard.
Regardless, when she did get up, we took a day trip (which turned into a day/evening trip) to drive up to Tahoe for the children to experience the snow. Nice time again.
HOME FRONTIER: XW has called me 2 of 3 days this week to bring our D7 with me and have lunch with her. I did so, and that was also a nice time.
I am working to spend time with her when she asks and to also stick to my schedule of being away from home so that I can give her the gift of missing me, if that's at all possible for her.
A positive note: XW seems to really want to spend her time with me and seems to enjoy it. I won't question it. I'll just assume that my feeling is correct.
MY THOUGHTS: I need to continue working on me and continuing to GAL away from doing activities that include XW. I love being with her, but if she perceives me as pursuing her and/or being the same old XH, my efforts to resurrect my R with her are dead in the water. If you are reading this, wish me well and offer any advice/direction you think would be of help to keep working my way back to my XW without scaring her away.
I know that most of what I am doing is trying to make myself the most attractive 'snack' in the lake in order to get the most desirable (to me) fish in the lake to find me (the snack) alluring, to take me, and to savor me, leaving her wanting more and more. Flipping her attraction triggers ON is my personal goal right now, and then once flipped ON again, it is my responsibility keep them flipped ON!
If I am making this sound like a game, I don't mean to, it's just that I have learned so much about what I didn't know leading up to my D and I am trying to make up for that lost time by keeping myself open to reconciling and to do what I am able to to open XW up to the possibility of reconciling with me.
CLOSING: I will do the work that I see as necessary to make that more likely, I will work diligently to not take anything personally from her, I will keep myself open to the possibility of reconciling and I will watch patiently while everything unfolds, all the while working to improve myself as a person, a man, a friend, a father and a partner/husband.
Letting Go Tom; JUST DO IT! previously hopeful_husband
my A: Fall 05 W found out: Feb 06; separated immediately W pursued D, final 7/11/07
Good luck to you!! I'm glad you've had some positives recently but aren't putting "too much" into them. That's critical, for sure.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
). At this point he is living with his brother. Over time, BF3 starts coming over more and more (invited I am sure) and refusing to leave when asked to do so. And, you guessed it...I was asked to come over on a Sunday in October 2006 and ask him to get out because he wouldn't leave despite her requests for him to do so. I did so (yes, like a dummy). Then, on that same Wednesday, XW said BF3 would not leave her house and she wanted to go home and not see him there. I went over again (yes, I know) and asked him to leave.
I'm not the best DBer and I'm pretty certain I wouldn't stop 'it' from happening again regardless. Honestly, I want it to, but fear that that will cause her to shut off completely from me. Again, your thoughts are welcomed and encouraged.