No affair(?), no feelings...is there hope? Part II

[44tries]

If a stranger passed by and told you that your eyes are purple, would you shrug it off, maybe even have a chuckle about it........or would you get down in the dumps and think, "He thinks I have purple eyes. I know I don't, but he sees me in that way, and it upsets me. What can I do to convince him otherwise". Would you go buy colored contact lens, or try to verbally convince the stranger differently, or get a report from the eye specialist to verify your eyes aren't really purple? No......if anything you would be amused, instead of letting it get next to you. You might say something like, "Yeah, I get my eyes after my mother" (as you bat your lashes). You know the truth and the only way this could upset you is to care too much what the stranger thinks of your eyes. By caring too much, it causes you to doubt yourself, become defensive, paranoid, have an excessive need to convince the other person it's not true, etc.

I love this. What a perfect analogy, what you meant is crystal clear now.

In the case with your WW, I didn't mean seriously agree. Like hang your head and admit it, or agreeing to appease her. Use a comeback response where it kind of sounds like the words are agreeing with the W....but your tone and expression are sounding as if you find the whole thing to be a little amusing. Not every time, but in some instances where she is being so childish. Stay nonchalant, and if you can sound as if you find humor in it.........then give a soft laugh or a little smile. You are not seriously agreeing with her.

W: "You are so rude and inconsiderate"!
H: "That's me! Mr. Rude & Inconsiderate".

See how that sounds? You are not arguing, explaining, being defensive, going silent, or any of that stuff. You keep your tone of voice light. Here's the thing. You have verbally agreed, in an odd kind of way. But she knows you are not taking her jab seriously. She can't hurt you by saying negative things about you, b/c you will turn it around and sound as if you are agreeing......and you seem fine with it. Trust me, it will stop her from taking those jabs, b/c she doesn't get the desired results from you. Yes, it will probably make her angry......but who cares? Not you! Your WW wants you to jump through hoops and act like a trained poodle.......but it's not going to work.

This all makes complete sense. I can definitely do this.

Does that clarify things any better? If not, then maybe just forget it and I'll think of something else. I thought maybe your personality would lean this direction, but if I'm wrong, just speak up and tell me. BTW, nonchalant is not an excuse to not address her behavior. It's a different way of addressing it.

Yes it does. No, you were right, this does fit my personality. This approach is great for when she makes her extremely childish jabs, and like you said as long as I use it appropriately and don't overuse it, I think it will work well. Now, I need to figure out how I will respond when she is more serious and in full on attack mode because I don't think the nonchalant bit will work then. But I'll come back to this point in a minute.

There is some misconception in girls being attracted to bad boys. Normal women do not want to have a bad person for a H. What attracts women to the bad boy image is his self confidence. He isn't a mama's boy. He doesn't let Mama or any other chick run his life. He thinks for himself, and if his woman gets a little bossy, shows a sense of self entitlement, nags, or any other unattractive quality......he tells her to get lost. He is not subservient or submissive. He is an alpha male and he always dominates his woman.......and that's why there are no issues with him not getting enough sex. He knows the difference in dominating and domineering.

Ah, you have explained this perfectly. It's the traits (confidence, assertiveness) that are often found in "bad boys" that they want, not so much the actual 'bad' part.

Stop it. It makes perfect sense to me. She is not paranoid or manic! Stop making excuses for her. She is wayward. I told you she would do this. B/c she's cheating, she is going to suspect your sudden interest in GAL is for the same purpose. That's why I told you to secure your IPad, b/c she is going to search nigh and low to see what you are doing. Here the thing. Let her be jealous, and wonder if there is someone else. Not that I am trying to get you to be cruel, but this is what she needs in order to shake her and make her realize she could lose you. This is a distraction from her OM. Don't pretend there is another woman, or try to make her jealous.......but neither should you take interrogation. OMG, she takes you for granted, can't you see it? The WW doesn't want her H, but she doesn't want anyone else having him. Just keep doing your thing. Don't lie, but don't give her solid answers. She doesn't get to interrogate you. I hope you chose this opportunity to use, "I'm not the one in the military". You can always hold up hand in the "stop" position and say, "I am not going to be interrogated". And just ignore the rest of her questions.

You are right, Sandi. If I'm being honest, it makes perfect sense to me too. It's so nice to have someone to slap me upside the head when I lose my smarts. Seriously, I need it. I can see it--she absolutely takes me for granted, plain and simple. I won't allow the interrogation and I will let her wonder.

I would have a very hard time keeping my mouth closed at her passive-agressive remarks to the dogs in the mornings! But, I suppose ignoring it is best, for now. My gosh, this woman is making me want to throw up! Surely I wasn't that disgusting!
I've always been pretty direct, so I don't think there is much passive-agressive junk in me. Please tell me you did not fix her a packed lunch.

It is pretty amazing (in a bad way). It's like all her flaws have been amplified 10x. The positive side is it is making it a lot easier for me to not care what she thinks and, honestly, be a lot less sure about wanting her back. Right now, this is a good thing for me. No, I definitely did not pack her lunch, or care when she tried to give me hell for it.

If it is her job......then stop saying "cool" and stop thanking her for doing her job. Once she starts acting like a grown up, then you can say more......maybe, IDK. For now, just say, "Okay". Just b/c she acts as if she's doing you a big favor, doesn't mean you should act as if she's doing you a big favor, too. Drop the NGS stuff.

Got it.

This is a load of cr@p. It is your NGS talking. Do they have a Walmart store where you live? You can purchase a blue barracks bag type of laundry bag for about $5 or $6. Or you can use a large trash bag or a plastic tub to set in "her" bedroom for "her" dirty clothes. I mean, what's the difference in sorting dirty clothes or clean clothes? If you are washing them all together, but leaving her clean clothes in the laundry room........you are still sorting at some point, aren't you? I think it would fix Miss Fancy Britches up right nicely let her do [b]all of her own laundry.

Totally fair, and yes the sorting becomes an issue either way. We don't have Walmart, but I'm sure I can get a bag. In fact, we have a lot of hampers and baskets. I actually ended up telling her I am going to stop doing her laundry this morning, but more on that later.

Yeah, it's all I can do to keep my cool with you, too! Wasn't it you I warned about these excuses of taking the higher ground....be the bigger person, nice-guy b.s.? "It was all you could do to keep your cool" is a lie. You were scared sh'tless.

You know, if you weren't so scared of her leaving, and if you'd really lose your cool when she acted this way, she might stop kicking you in the face every day! All you could do to keep your cool.........my a$$. Ignoring her passive-aggressive remarks to the dogs is one thing. But this tantrum she threw, screams of self entitlement, and it was directed straight at you. If there was EVER a time you should have stood up to her.....it was at that moment. She thinks b/c she brings home the paycheck, you are worthless and she is entitled to be waited on hand & foot. And, you ran back into your turtle shell, so expect more of the same to come.

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe you won't be able to use lighthearted comebacks. Not after this episode. It may be too late for anything that hints of a lighter note.

So, back the lighthearted comebacks issue. I do think there is a time and place where they are very useful and I can use them. But during these full on tantrums, not so much. Are you saying it's okay for me to lose my cool? You are right, I was scared sh'tless. But, not only because of her attack, I was also totally in fear of doing/saying the wrong thing. I didn't want to launch into an over-explainer speech. I didn't want to yell back. So I froze and did very little. I'm not afraid to make her mad, clearly she already is. I just want to make sure that if I jump in the ring with her, I put her in her place and walk out with the upper-hand. When she comes at me with all her "Must be nice to not have to go to work" B.S., my instinct is going to be to explain to her why her argument is full of holes. I am a debater. I don't think this is the right approach here and I don't want to start arguing with her lack of logic. Her attacks are very predictable, I just need to plan exactly how I will respond and there will be no more 'turtling'.

Well, this is what it's going to be like.......and not standing up to her, just set you back. So get ready!

Ugh, I know. Don't worry, I'm about to get plenty more chances.

I like you, but I'm not your mama, and I will tell you how it is.......not how you want to hear it is. It's time you put on your man pants, and accept that things are going to get worse. Maybe you M a she-devil, but you certainly have done your part in making her feel so self entitled. Now, you've got to set it straight.....or get out. You haven't known misery, yet.

Not gonna lie, this scares me. But, that's okay. If this is the course it needs to take, I'm ready. When I first started learning what to do after BD, I think I got the impression that I wanted to avoid fighting with W at all costs. We weren't at a place where we hated each other and that was a good thing. But, in my case, I have created a monster. I don't think she is truly a she-devil--or least she wasn't when I married her--and I fully acknowledge my part in making her so self-absorbed and entitled. So, I guess it has to get ugly before it gets better, is that what you're saying?

Back to the part where I said I told her she can do her own laundry. She is currently working 12 hour shifts and doesn't get home til midnight. So, I didn't have to deal with her much last night. When she did come home, she was friendly. I do have to say, we used to fight like this a lot, before we learned how to communicate a lot better and she gained a lot more self-control over her temper. Back then, she could hold a grudge for eternity. Now at least, she seems to get over it pretty quickly. Anyway, this morning started out fine, but went downhill right before she left for work.

She started into her bit about how she's working 12 hours and I don't care to help. Complained about her laundry again. Said something like if I can't do it properly and keep it from getting wrinkled and hairy, then she will do it. Ah, perfect! I told her, good idea. I will stop doing your laundry from now on. This only made her angrier. Eventually, she said "This is going to turn bad, I know it." Referring to us living together.

Here's my problem. I feel like sitting her down and telling her she needs to knock off all the complaining and passive-aggression. We can have an agreed upon set of expectations for what I do as support since she is the one working and I have more time. I will make it clear she cannot expect this to include personal favors.

The problem is this is talking and explaining. I'm supposed to be showing her what she can expect by just not doing things that I shouldn't, right? I just hate this stupid dance where she tries to act like I'm failing and "holding something over her head". That's always been her favorite card to play. She can make it seem like anyone is holding anything over her head. If I'm refusing to do things for her anymore, it's because I'm holding the fact that she wants out of our marriage over her head. Really? Don't worry, I know that is her twisting things with all her might. Anyway, if the dance is necessary, I can suck it up and keep going. But, I just feel like there is a way I can stand up and put a stop to it.

[sandi2]

Okay, I am getting a better picture of your personality. Which means, my original gut feeling was on track.

So, back the lighthearted comebacks issue. I do think there is a time and place where they are very useful and I can use them. But during these full on tantrums, not so much. Are you saying it's okay for me to lose my cool? You are right, I was scared sh'tless. But, not only because of her attack, I was also totally in fear of doing/saying the wrong thing. I didn't want to launch into an over-explainer speech

.

Having a sense of timing, is important when using lighthearted comebacks.....else you'll just look stupid. Actually, you are sending a strong message, but doing it in a way that if she makes a scene, it makes her look very foolish and childish. The objective is for her to stop the self entitlement behavior and start respecting her H as a man who is not solely dependent on her or her paycheck. Perhaps I didn't word that correctly. I don't mean that you are trying to control her, but it is your way of handling the situation, without defensive type over-explanations, and without over accommodation.

The lighthearted comebacks are to be used at a different time than when she assaults you with these tantrums. And, should she suddenly go into a tantrum when you've used a comeback remark.....then immediately switch into serious mode.

I think the next time she refers to bringing home the paycheck, you need to immediately address it.

You: "Let me make something perfectly clear. Just b/c you currently bring home the paycheck, does not mean I work for you!"

I can think of so much more to add, but I'm sure you can, as well. However, you are trying to minimize your words, so make them count.

When I referred to losing your cool, I meant that you've spent so much time & energy catering to her and trying to have a happy W that she never sees you angry. There is such a thing as being too laid back. She has trampled over you and she sees you take cover. I use to do the same thing with my H. He would not get in my face and tell me off. He just wouldn't do anything........so, I treated him worse, and worse. It's as if a woman will keep pushing to see how much a man will take before he finally gets enough to fight back. BTW, my H doesn't let me speak to him in that disrespectful manner anymore.

Respond in an authoritoritive manner. If you are sitting down at the time she starts bashing, then stand up (not threatening, but not retreating). Stand as tall and straight as you can. (Practice this when she's not home, and practice different scenarios and your responses). Don't shout at her, but use a strong, manly tone of voice. You may not be in the military, but this is your domain, so speak with a tone & volume level that shows that you are in charge. The objective here is not to make her happy. Forget her happiness. That will fall into place, once you start acting like the man she needs. I know you can't see it, but her actions are begging for you to stand up to her and show her you have b@lls.

Not gonna lie, this scares me. But, that's okay. If this is the course it needs to take, I'm ready. When I first started learning what to do after BD, I think I got the impression that I wanted to avoid fighting with W at all costs. We weren't at a place where we hated each other and that was a good thing. But, in my case, I have created a monster. I don't think she is truly a she-devil--or least she wasn't when I married her--and I fully acknowledge my part in making her so self-absorbed and entitled. So, I guess it has to get ugly before it gets better, is that what you're saying?

Yes, that's what I am saying. I really do 't think she is a she-devil, either. I think she is immature. It's serious enough, but I see you having the potential to turn this MR around and set it up right. It will get worse before getting better, b/c of the degree of her contempt for you. She doesn't see you as a man. She does not desire you as a man. At best, she treats you like a gay best friend. At worst, you are no more than a lowly servant who waits hand & foot on her, for your room & board. She will have to see your b@lls in action, before she sees you as the man she needs, and before her sexual desire for you rises. If you get her respect, the desire will follow.

No, I definitely did not pack her lunch, or care when she tried to give me hell for it.

Good......just stop taking her hell for it. See, here's how she sees this type of action from you: She b'tches about being late and you won't even help by fixing her lunch......and she is obviously making all of this your fault (being late for work). If you are just sitting around doing nothing particularlly important, she sees you as some lazy slug she is supporting. It causes more comptempt within her. Whether right or wrong, she feels it is your job to help her get to work, with the professional attire and lunch bag. Of course, it's not your job, but this is who you've help to create. How did she ever get through basic training without your help? She knows how to be responsible, but she feels these jobs in helping her are your obligation to her. She is making all of her morning frustrations your fault, b/c you haven't taken care of her properly.

Does she set her alarm clock to wake at a certain time every morning? Does she repeatily hit the snooze button? Bless her heart........it must be hard to roll out of bed, after being up most of the night messaging. .

What does she see in you, when first arising? Is your hair standing up in every direction, unshaven, not dressed? I'm not saying to be dressed in a suit & tie, but when a woman already has contemp for the guy.......these little things work against him a lot. So, set your alarm to get you up ahead of her, wash, shave, comb hair, put on jeans & shirt. If she thinks you are a worthless bum.......at least you won't look the part. . (jk)

Another question..........when the two of you eat a meal, do you sit at the table together, or fix your plate and eat at the kitchen bar? Do you eat at separate times?

I just want to make sure that if I jump in the ring with her, I put her in her place and walk out with the upper-hand. When she comes at me with all her "Must be nice to not have to go to work" B.S., my instinct is going to be to explain to her why her argument is full of holes. I am a debater. I don't think this is the right approach here and I don't want to start arguing with her lack of logic. Her attacks are very predictable, I just need to plan exactly how I will respond and there will be no more 'turtling'.

I agree. You are at the stage I see a lot of newcomer H's afraid of making the incorrect move or saying the wrong thing. And, we are usually guilty of telling him everything he said wrong. However, it is with the purpose of him learning what to say, or not say, if it happens again, etc. I don't want you freezing up, wondering about some catch phrase that might work. When she's pitching a fit.......catch phrases don't usually work. Sometimes, if a WW is just sounding so childish, a H might say, "Feel all better now?". But usually, a comeback remark will fuel her anger. Some people advise that the H start shushing her, trying to calm her down. I don't like that approach, b/c I am a head on collision type. Seriously though, it's difficult to describe in a post some kind of one size fits all response, b/c you can't always react the same. Use wise judgement, in spite of what I or anyone else tells you how to respond to her angry tantrums. In my gut, I think she would back down if you stand up to her, but I'm not there watching the scene. She has been trained to respond respectfully to authority in the military. Based on what she told you about "taking some authority", I feel she is not just challenging you.......but needs to see you responding like a man who commands respects from others.

As far as loosing your cool, of course I don't recommend anything that hints of domestic violence. I don't think there is anything wrong when a man gives his b'tchy W a piece of his mind and walks out the door without telling her squat of his intentions. He could even walk out without giving a piece of his mind.......if he does it in a strong statement-making manner. . He doesn't want to appear as if he is running to take shelter, but rather, that he has had it with this woman!

Back to the part where I said I told her she can do her own laundry. She is currently working 12 hour shifts and doesn't get home til midnight.

Those are long shifts. Make sure you have the house clean (stay out of her bedroom) and keep food in the house. When she's working these long shifts, keep something cooked that is easy to warm in the microwave. I'm not saying to wait hand & foot on her. There is a difference in being considerate, and over-accommodating. She is a disrespectful, spoiled, self entitled, WW. If you keep the house and yard maintained, and there is food in the kitchen that's pretty easy to prepare.......I would see it considerate, from the woman's point of view. I think you should do all of the laundry, except her clothes. It's not like she has to draw water to boil and use a scrub board and then hang them on the line to dry. The only things you won't be doing (work wise) are her room, and her clothes. Right? Am I missing something? When you cook, make enough to have leftovers......but you don't have to fix her plate and serve her. Not while she's acting so bossy and self entitled.

Here's my problem. I feel like sitting her down and telling her she needs to knock off all the complaining and passive-aggression. We can have an agreed upon set of expectations for what I do as support since she is the one working and I have more time. I will make it clear she cannot expect this to include personal favors

Did she say she wanted in-house separation......or is this just in your signature to clarify the M status?

You: "We need to lay down some ground rules. When you are working 12 hrs, I don't mind having something prepared for dinner. (Say it this way, so you can still be gone GAL when/if she comes home). When you get ready to eat, all you'll have to do is fix your plate.....maybe reheat it. But, I'm not waiting hand & foot on you.......and I'm not doing your room or your laundry". Bringing home the paycheck does not mean I work for you........or that I'm responsible for you getting to work on time, how you look, or if you have any lunch packed".

I agree that this needs to be said. I am trying to keep any cattiness out of it. (It's hard, though). Say it with all the self confidence and determination you can muster. Not preachy, not like a speech, not wimpy. Say it quickly, but firmly. If she starts yelling or gets too b'tchy or out of hand.....walk out on her and leave the house! Don't stand there while she attacks you. If she can talk calmly, listen......but don't get into a long R talk. Expect her to pull out various cards to play (victim, guilt, control, pity party, blame, entitlement, tears and lots of threats). Stand your ground, no explaining, and don't wimp out.

[Cadet]

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