WAW-MLC vs LBS .... The turtle and the hare.

[Lifes Twists]

Hi Caliguy,

I can understand your dilemma. I am christian and my wife is catholic and believe me there is a difference. The differences can be a whole discussion unto itself. Your first concern should be about forgiveness. Remember that Christ made the ultimate sacrifice to teach us this. Every time you question whether you can forgive remember what he said on the cross, "Forgive them father for they know not what they do." I believe this one statement is the foundation for Christianity. It does not say forgive and forget, just forgive. What you choose to do after you forgive is your own free will.

I don't believe any church should look down on you or exclude you if you are divorced by your spouse. If they do, then I don't really consider them Christian. I would challenge anyone to find where Christ said it was ok to exclude some people from his church or limit their participation. So, if your wife divorces you, I feel that burden is on her when she has to face our maker and try to explain her decisions.

Hope I have not offended anyone. I don't consider myself limited by being a member of one religious group. I read the bible and relate what I read to what I am being taught. If they don't correlate then for me the bible wins every time as people have been known to make mistakes.

[mleigh4]

I'm sorry Caliguy. I was hoping for better than that. I admire the way you told her she IS your business. These MLC's seem to think they can wake up one day and decide they don't need to follow any marriage boundaries. It's really good that you set out that boundary. I have found that for the most part, R talks don't do much good for making us feel better. However, when they are used to express your feelings and set boundaries, I don't know, I have gotten some good results from that. Let it sit with her for a while. You let her know where you stand and I think that is important. I can guess you are a much better man than this guy getting involved with a married woman with a family. Remember that when you look in the mirror. Be the person you are proud of and keep that mirror with you. Chin up, you can do this. Be the example for S, he is watching. You are a good man to fight for your family and beliefs!

Hang in there. Do something during these really tough times that makes you feel better.

[Nitty]

She did her spew, that she is involved with him, I need to get over it .. bla bla ...

...

so I returned fire and dropped the only bomb I have. I told her we are still married, she is still my wife and I will fight for my family .. she said her relationship with him is none of my business I told her it in fact is MY business as my family and my wife are completely my business and I will no longer just stand around.

...

I told her I wanted to be there for her .. she brought up I had the chance the other night but didnt answer/reply ... totally not fair .. 2 in the morning ... I did not bring up the fact that she is not calling texting Om when she is sick .. but thats what she does.


I then she said she wants the divorce just was waiting till her brother stuff was done and was looking to file after the year,

All of this stuff is exactly the kind of stuff I heard from my H. Everything she spewed is still MLC 101.

I told her .. OK .. .I will have a talk with OM, I also plan on talking to her entire family and exposing her little secret .. this flipped her out. Honestly I do not want to do either and know it would be bad .. but part of me does .. will it win her back .. no .. but it does show I will fight for this. I am still thinking about this .. I am also thinking if I really want this M ... I just dont know anymore.

I've seen two definite schools of thought on this.

1) Classic DB: "Exposing the PA, Confronting OP, Etc. = Major No-No". The first DB coach I spoke with called this "punishing behavior". I have problems with there being a one-size fits all approach to all of our situations. But if it's done in anger or thrown out during a fight, then it may result in a situation for which you haven't prepared yourself.

2) DB 2.0 (as practiced by people like Starsky when Mrs. Starsky couldn't give up her OM) = This may be what needs to be done, but only if a) it is not a manipulative attempt to win her back and b) you are prepared for the end of the M.

I did set a boundary during this fight .. no more texts or phone calls about us .. all discussions will be in person, so I can make sure I am clear and not misunderstood .. nor hung up on and vice versa. she blew up my phone .. even tried calling while I was working Halloween ... I DJ'd and not like I can answer ... she tried again today.... I held firm

I tried that, too, but often got sucked back into it when he would deliberately say things that weren't true (or maybe he believed they were true, who knows). Like "You could never forgive me, you only ever kept throwing OW in my face!" And when I got sucked back into it, things got worse, so if you can hold firm, all the better.

I printed out Puppy's/Starsky's post of boundaries vs controlling behavior and pinned it to my wall, where I could read it every day. It definitely helped me whenever talks turned to R.

I also put 2 n 2 together ... seems OM is the one that calls it off with her, and then contacts her and off she goes. Not that it matters .. but seems she is more into him than he is into her.

I thought that when I read your last post about S finding OM's texts. Did you tell her this? What did she say?

So ... I am not sure what or where I am at honestly .. just kinda numb today, detached .. maybe its LRT time .. but I am more of the opinion of just living my life .. maybe she comes out of the tunnel .. maybe she never does .. I try to remind myself its in Gods hands .. but I am not to happy with His way of dealing with this .. it could honestly be less painful.

That kind of feeling always brought me back to Lt. Speir's speech from Band of Brothers, which I edited for my own sitch.

We’re all scared. You hid in that ditch YOU ARE LOSING YOUR COOL because you think there’s still hope YOU ARE STILL NOT DETACHED. But Blithe, the only hope you have is to accept the fact that you are already dead DIVORCED. And the sooner you accept that the sooner you’ll be able to function as a soldier LBS is supposed to function. Without mercy FALSE HOPE. Without compassion DESPAIR. Without remorse ANY EXPECTATIONS. All war ALL DB-ING depends on it. --Lt. Ronald Speirs

Re-reading it every day put me in a different place, emotionally, like I was beyond the D. I certainly didn't hold myself together during D mediation, but I was able to pull myself back together more quickly when I already saw myself as a divorced woman.

Had S not told me what he did .. it would have been avoided completely ..

I think you should talk to S, tell him that he is a good kid, but he should stay out of his mom's phone, avoid looking for stuff for you. Kids are smart. I got caught up in this stuff with my mom and dad. Based on my personal experience, he is siding with you, not trusting his mom, learning he needs to see what she is "really doing", and I don't know, Caliguy, it seems like it's setting him up for future problems with women. Not ever trusting them, for example, no matter what the sitch, but always looking for a betrayal.

It's not your fault, it's just a kid trying to help his dad.

What if you were to plan for him to spend a lot of quality time with a female relative or friend who can show him that women can be trustworthy, that some of us stumble and fall and make bad decisions, but it doesn't mean all are like that?

I am so sorry you're in this foxhole right now.

[CaliGuy]

Hi Caliguy,

I can understand your dilemma. I am christian and my wife is catholic and believe me there is a difference. The differences can be a whole discussion unto itself. Your first concern should be about forgiveness. Remember that Christ made the ultimate sacrifice to teach us this. Every time you question whether you can forgive remember what he said on the cross, "Forgive them father for they know not what they do." I believe this one statement is the foundation for Christianity. It does not say forgive and forget, just forgive. What you choose to do after you forgive is your own free will.

I don't believe any church should look down on you or exclude you if you are divorced by your spouse. If they do, then I don't really consider them Christian. I would challenge anyone to find where Christ said it was ok to exclude some people from his church or limit their participation. So, if your wife divorces you, I feel that burden is on her when she has to face our maker and try to explain her decisions.

Hope I have not offended anyone. I don't consider myself limited by being a member of one religious group. I read the bible and relate what I read to what I am being taught. If they don't correlate then for me the bible wins every time as people have been known to make mistakes.

Ironic you said that ... I will start a new thread, ALOT happened over the weekend ... however this morning my W looked a bit sad, I simply walked up and hugged her ... she said "How can you still love me so much after all I have done to you" My reply was "I forgive you" ... then she said something else but I cut her off and said "I forgive you" even firmer.

[CaliGuy]

I'm sorry Caliguy. I was hoping for better than that. I admire the way you told her she IS your business. These MLC's seem to think they can wake up one day and decide they don't need to follow any marriage boundaries. It's really good that you set out that boundary. I have found that for the most part, R talks don't do much good for making us feel better. However, when they are used to express your feelings and set boundaries, I don't know, I have gotten some good results from that. Let it sit with her for a while. You let her know where you stand and I think that is important. I can guess you are a much better man than this guy getting involved with a married woman with a family. Remember that when you look in the mirror. Be the person you are proud of and keep that mirror with you. Chin up, you can do this. Be the example for S, he is watching. You are a good man to fight for your family and beliefs!

Hang in there. Do something during these really tough times that makes you feel better.

Mleigh .. yes I wish it would have gone better .. however this interaction, then going dark Saturday .. sparked a conversation Sunday morning. I will start a new thread .. stay tuned.

[CaliGuy]

I've seen two definite schools of thought on this.

1) Classic DB: "Exposing the PA, Confronting OP, Etc. = Major No-No". The first DB coach I spoke with called this "punishing behavior". I have problems with there being a one-size fits all approach to all of our situations. But if it's done in anger or thrown out during a fight, then it may result in a situation for which you haven't prepared yourself.

2) DB 2.0 (as practiced by people like Starsky when Mrs. Starsky couldn't give up her OM) = This may be what needs to be done, but only if a) it is not a manipulative attempt to win her back and b) you are prepared for the end of the M.

Like I siad in my previous posts ... there is alot to add to my sitch ... new thread time anyways .. I will briefly touch on this now ...

Exposing the A and the OM, it is not a means to get her back .. I told her as such. There were several reasons I put it out there.
1. She has been allowed to have this little fantasy, I let it go thinking she would come to her senses and realize this guy was after one thing ... and its not long term. Its disrespectful to me, our M, our Family, disrespects her parents (who do not know) and its just wrong. Pulling the I am leaving card .. ok fine if the M is that bad .. but doing it so you can get away with your A ... no .. its wrong .. MLC or not.
2. If we D ... I do not want limbo like this for a couple years .. then she presents OM like they just met and it happened .... like I told her .. I will not be painted to be the bad guy that she has created in her head ... she left me for the OM, if she loves him that much and he means that much .. then she should be proud of it and shout it from the roof tops .. I want her that happy
3. Its a threat ... more to wake her up, she has had guilt over it for the past year, its wrong, against our religious beliefs ... and my last resort to trying to wake her up and make her think about all who it effects .... her family would never accept this. She was not raised this way.

So at the moment I have just shot across the bow and am waiting to see the ripple effect .... I have alot of news to add ... but its time for a new thread.