May I offer a man's perspective. I would like to think that most all of us truly want to "get it". If we do not, it is not for lack of trying. Perhaps you are not communicating in a way that allows him to "get it". For example my wife has spent a huge amount of time this past two years ,,, nagging,,, complaining,,,, critisizing,,,, (and I am being polite here) All this has done is hurt our relationship even further. I know now her real intent was to help me "get it"... but the fact is there really is better ways (I mean more productive) to communicate with your spouse. TRUST ME! WE DO WANT TO GET IT!
You have raised an interresting question, that I have not thought about. My wife left me one month ago (again). I just assumed that she want us to be history. Does she really just want me to "get it" so we can live a good marriage together? Perhaps... then maybe not. I have always felt that the reason she communicates in the style that she does is that she thinks it will whip me into shape. She thinks this kind of communicating (including leaving me) has worked well for her mother in years past (she worships her mother) so that she will not try it with me. Your husband needs help understanding what you wish him to know. I would hope and pray you could find a counselor that could help out. But depending on your location, I know from experience that is not always easy.
Hi Flicker, We did go to some counseling once. It definitely was not the kind that Michele advocates in her book! It was every bad sterotype imaginable and I found the whole thing embarrassing and a terrible waste of time/money. We sat on this lady's flowered couch among the fluffly pillows and ferns as she encouraged us to "share our feelings". So basically through very forced polite smiles and gritted teeth we said the same thing we have been arguing about in our kitchen for the last two years. She would pause from her cup of tea every now and then to say "and how does hearing that make me feel". It was very frustrating. I really felt like saying 'it makes me feel like I married the village idiot and you're not much better'. But instead I payed the hefty bill, put us through it a few more times before I smartened up enough to realize this just wasn't doing what it was suppose to. She would always encourage us before leaving to find 'practical ways to show our love' but quite honestly we were much less love to show after that nonsense then before we walked in.
I see that Michele is giving a seminar in Chicago, and since that is only 3 hours away, maybe we will try to go to that when the date comes out. I think if that is quite effective I might find out who around here is affiliated with her. I agree with you that a good therapist would be the key, and thank you for the encouragement. I'm glad you are having success with yours.
KJ, I so agree! Lately I have been just letting him miss his appts. and deal with it. Of course his solution is usually to try to have us rearrange the rest of the family's plans to accomodate his mix-up so it doesn't always work.
I agree I need to "catch him being good" and pump him up for every little thing. I really do. It's just that it makes me see him even more as a little kid then as a man. But unfortunately he does need this.
It's nice to know I'm not the only one who is struggling (and surviving) these same issues. Thanks,
Michele, Thanks for taking the time to respond. I really have appreciated your book (I am through ch. 3 so far)-especially the part about agreeing that life is too short to be unhappy. You see, I know I can stay married until the day one of us dies, I have the willpower to do that because I think willpower is pretty much what has held us together this long. But several things have caused me to question lately why? One of those being my parents who recently celebrated 40 years of marriage and while that is a wonderful accomplishment my Mom seems so unhappy and unfulfilled I wonder if that really is such a great thing to shoot for. On top of that having a sister who is divorced and truly seems better for it and even her x who married his affair and has been married for 10 years to the affair (I know that is very rare). Then I ran into an old friend the other day who I haven't seen for 13 years and she told me how miserable she is with dh -the exact thing she said 13 years ago and I got to thinking how pathetic to spend all that time unhappy! But hey, that is kind of me, so I guess I'm a bit pathetic too.
Well, I really am interested in applying principles to not just make it tolerable to stay but to really get some joy out of this life and marriage and most importantly for our kids to be able to benefit from this too. I see the conference date in Chicago hasn't been decided yet but I think we may try to make it if we can.
I have some general ideas for goals but I have to work very hard on them to make them specific, measurable, and non-critical (if anyone has some ideas let me know). These are the 4 basic areas I will be working on revising:
Getting him to be a more involved and effective co-parent Getting him to be a more responsible human being Getting him to be less airheaded (being able to remember what was just said to him, using common sense, etc..,) Getting him to be more honest (he isn't unfaithful but is quite dishonest in other smaller areas).
I know those are terribly stated and very accusatory but they are just general areas I am going to work on revising.
I literally flew through your thread, so if I say something redundant or outright stupid, please just put me right and let it go.
You indicated that you have felt extremely unsupported by your husband. My wife has stated the same. She has also said, "How is it that you have only just now [while in counselling sessions] heard what I have been saying again and again." Well, the reality is that in those sessions the counsellor would not allow her to be anything less than clear AND tested that I had received the message as intended.
Don't stick with something that hasn't worked when trying to communicate your wants, wishes, and needs to your husband. However many different ways you have tried, there still must be at least one more. Please find and try it.
I am truly saddened to hear of your son's challenges. However, it is very clear you will afford him every opportunity to be all that he can be. What a mom! What an advocate!
Jeff, who will be praying for you and your family.
Lost but Hopeful, Thanks for your perspective. I think you are right that I am not communicating in a way that helps him 'get it'. Can you give me some more insight? What are some ways that your w (anyone else chime in here too) could have communicated to you in a way that would have helped you truly understand the issues that bothered her? I do think the male perspective here could help me come up with some new ideas. What I have been doing is 1) Being very blunt. I know this sounds mean but it is the only thing that seems to be effective and has actually helped some areas For example, because of our schedules we see each othr very little but H had gotten into a habit of coming home and spending until 2am in front of the tv. After many very nice conversations I finally got fed up and told him to start paying attention to me or I would find someone who would. Now I feel kind of mean about that and think it is a nasty thing to say, and don't really mean it, but that tv hasn't been on in weeks and that issue is pretty much resolved. I really don't like having to be like that though because it makes me feel bad about myself to talk like that 2) I guess the other thing that I have been doing that does not work too well is trying to use logic. For example, like trying to explain to him (repeatedly) why it really does make sense to keep the sliding glass door locked-we have 2 small kids that can open the door and get out and get lost/hurt. 3) The other thing that does not work too well is trying to show him how to do something. He is always complaining that the reason he does not do the kids therapy stuff is because he doesn't know how so I will show him and tell him but he can never seem to 'remember' on his own. Also I have tried to have the professionals actually train him/make tapes available, etc.., This is very infuriating and he really does need to be able to do this and is a huge issue for us. Even last week, my son's therapist told him "you need to be doing some of this so it doesn't all fall on her" so he actually had certain things he was suppose to do each day but hasn't all week. Then it is either take the time to nag him to do it or just do it myself.
Okay, I got off track a little complaining (sorry) but please really do give me any male insight into some other things that might be more effective. I need those ideas!
(And yes, since I feel like out of desperation that separation might be the only way to get him to 'wake up' I imagine it is true that there are probably some other wives out there who feel that way too)
JSW, Thanks for your comments and prayers. I'll take them both! So how did your w state the issues in counseling (w/the therapists help) that made them more clear to you? That would be great to know-perhaps I can try out that method too. Thanks
I really wish that I could answer your question with 100% certainty. However, the best I can offer is that the C did not let my W or me (by the way, we are both certified conflict avoiders) skirt the issues or speak in incomplete sentences.
If you haven't done so, I highly recommend that you and your husband, see someone trained in communication.
As a husband who didn't get it. And who displayed alot of the similar things you are describing let me tell you what I found effective for me.
1. Organizational skills. Sounds like your H has abominable organizational skills. I was like that once. If you have good skills in this area why don't you start a family habit of sitting down each evening and working out your days. If you each keep a notebook/planner (just like my children have for school) and you set aside time for the two of you to sit at the kitchen table and both of you "work your planners" then maybe he will start to get it. You can then help him to learn some better skills in this area without making an issue of it. Remember, keep it lighthearted and fun if at all possible.
2. We also have gone throught the whole therapy (still on-going) rat race. My twin Ds where born prematurely and required immense amounts of help over the last few years. Keep your chin up on this. Trust me it does help your child to be involved in this. It sounds as though maybe your husband has some guilt here about your boy. He may also be experiencing some aversion due to the fact that when he spends time with the boy he is reminded that all the hopes and dreams he had for the child may never come to pass. Again you could try to make this a more group oriented activity. Instead of just asking him to do his share perhaps you need to ease him into participation. Off the top of my head I can think of one or two ways of doing this. You could simply begin doing some of the exercises in the same room as your H. You could make a point of mentioning any positive progress you see with your son.
3. What you are doing now isn't working. Try something else -- anything else. Nagging and constantly reminding your H of his faults isn't going to get you the behaviour you desire. His retreating to the TV is a very big sign of you H trying to shield himself from what he perceives as a contant attack. Do a 180 on this. When he comes home don't immediately unload on him. Try and make him feel like he is welcomed in his own home. I can tell you that he probably dreads coming home right now. This will be a big job for you ( I can sense that you are very frustrated and overwhelmed right now). Do your best to suck it in and try to ease your husband into the daily family routine. Right now you are trying to crowbar him into contributing -- try seduction. I know it sucks that you have to do this but trust me once he finally "Gets it" you will likely be amazed at the changes.
Please remember that I'm only offering suggestions/hints. I don't know your H but you do. Think about the behaviour you want from him. Think about what you've been doing to get it ( and which isn't working ) then try doing something different -- anything. Keep track of what you've tried and how it worked but remember that sometimes you need patience and that you should give each tactic a while to work before going on to the next. Keep doing the things that seem to work and don't do the things that don't work.
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