I know I haven't given you a chance to respond yet, but I have one more concern that is eating away at me about going dark. I've seen this issue come up on other threads "read my attempts at detachment as not caring". I am so afraid that my H will see it that way. I have been totally dark for a week, and the last contact was a simple, short FYI call.
I am about 95% certain that this is the feeling that my H will get, that I do no longer care, that his family was right all along (and they will definitely tell him that), and that leaving was the right thing to do. The other 5% says, yes, but this is an Alien we are talking about - who knows. He did say in our last conversation that he also feels it's important for us to become friends and I said that's hard when you treat me like a criminal and avoid me like the plague - he just said yeah, and then I politely ended the call. It was the best conversation we'd had in a month.
I thought about sending him the section of DR about the "beginner's mind" and a short article on SBT tomorrow as food for thought for the weekend. Just a quick e-mail stating that you know I want to save our marriage, I am willing to change, this is something I think is worth while to look at, please read it over with an open mind and consider it. No pressure. No other OR mention.
I could really use some guidance on this before I make that decision.
THank you,
Shawn
ps - any plans on any future seminars in the Phoenix area?
Michele, thank you for your positive words - you definitely practice what you preach because your positive encouraging words had a positive reaction in me! I've been a little blue lately but your words perked me up and gave me something which put me back on the PMA track. I admit from time to time secretely sulking about feeling unloved/unwanted, but have grown enough to let it go and not let it consume me. H can't give what he's incapable of giving nor can he be forced to. A positive thing happened today, and it's been a long time...H showed concern over something that I had expressed sadness over (something that had zero to do with him). That's a baby step in the right direction. I'm not putting too much into it, but do know it was a positive thing.
smp, I'm curious what Michele would say about what you should do. I'm wondering since she said in her book things about 'not leaving R books laying around', etc., if she'd dissuade you from sending your H the DR article. I'm wondering if that is considered pursing on your part. I know your intentions are positive ones but do you really feel your H is receptive to reading articles and hearing about SBT? Only you can answer that. I'm only saying this to you because I took that route but it landed me back at square one, over and over. Finally, I quit doing that. I did not give up on H or the marriage but I gave up trying to convince him of anything. Actions speak louder than words anyway. As far as detaching goes, you might be interested in Billymo's "Let it go" post...his explanation really helped me. (It's on the MLC board.) I've been doing this for some time and probably made all the possible mistakes one can make, but finally think I get what I'm suppose to do.
Jen, if you are reading this, did you read that book on controlled separation...is that how you decided to do this? I ask because H and I are contemplating doing this.
at first he was willing to go to counseling, but after moving in with his sister he took the stance of "we've been to counseling before, why try again" and that we've tried everything. I thought the part about looking at things with a beginner's mind might intrigue him. I really have a fear of going completely dark and pushing his belief further that I don't care. I don't know where that belief even came from, as I was always trying to find more ways to spend time together, and recently trying to take more interest in his hobbies.
I have just never felt so lost and out of control in my life. He is letting his family run things and they are having his lawyer push this D through as quickly as they can. I KNOW I can't control anything but me, but I cannot get a grip on my fears and my sadness. I have started reading DR again - it helped me feel like I had hope before.
Yes, I read the book on controlled separation, and I took the separation agreement right out of that book. It seems logical when I read it, and I simply couldn't have my H in the house any longer given his attitude and behavior, and I couldn't convince him to leave without help from my attorney.
Although the agreement made me feel good at the time (at least we both filled in the blanks and agreed it would be for 2 months) the 2 months is up today and there has been no word from my H. He told me several weeks ago that he didn't want to talk about anything until after the agreement expired.
Don't use the agreement without a lot of thought going into it. I sincerely don't know if it has helped us or not. I know it didn't solve anything except giving us at timeframe. H broke everything he agreed to inthe agreement. I broke nothing I agreed to.
quote:Originally posted by smp26: I really have a fear of going completely dark and pushing his belief further that I don't care.
He is letting his family run things and they are having his lawyer push this D through as quickly as they can. Shawn
Shawn, maybe your instinct is telling you not to go completely dark. Sounds like you need some positive interaction between you and your H. Even though we can't control others, we can act as positive as possible around them. You said that you and your H had a good conversation - where he said something about the importance of you becoming friends, and your response was it's hard when he treats you like a criminal and the plague, then you said he agreed. I'm wondering though if your response made him feel badly about himself. I know with my H, even if I spoke the truth, if the truth was unflattering to him, he'd feel like I was "beating him up" mentally. It's hard to walk on eggshells while your heart is hurting. I'm sorry for what you are going through. I've learned though that we can still be 'nice' without overcompensating. I went about my own business, and tried really hard to not take my spouses moods personally.
Do you know for fact that his family is pushing for the D? Even if that's the case, I wouldn't bring it up to your H, because again, he could become defensive of his family.
I'm just wondering that if you are positive toward your H and try to shine light on any little good thing he does, then that might open the door for more progress. And if that door opens, his controlling family's opinions will have less clout.
Jen, when H and I wrote up the agreement (from that book) we decided on 6 months. I'm sorry to hear that the separation did not help and that he broke most of the contract. Even though my H did not follow through with the separation (due to child concerns), I think he still plans on it - but I'm not brining it up! I'm trying to go about my life and hope for the best and not dwell on what the marriage isn't. Feels good to have finally reached this point. (I've been at this almost a year!)
You are right about the comment about treating me like a criminal....I knew I shouldn't have said it. As far as his family pushing the D through, I am 100% certain. They have been trying to get rid of me for 12 years, tried to get my parents to talk me out of the wedding, tried to get between us many, many times. His sister prided herself on the fact that they had been "planning this for a year and a half" and that I was "too stupid to see it". My H knows they are manipulative, knows they hate me, and knows they lie, yet he let them take him over again.
As far as the D goes - when I tried to talk to him about what "he" filed, he knew nothing about what was actually in the petition. He signed the last page, his lawyer signed the rest on his behalf. His income wasn't right, my income, all kinds of info that HE KNOWS was wrong. He didn't even know that this was a no-fault divorce state AFTER he filed. I received a court date because a request was filed for "expedited" processing for the child support portion. Because I filed for conciliation court, that is the only portion of the divorce proceedings not frozen for 60 days.
If he were so interested in helping out with childcare costs, he would not have dumped me with all the bills. I know...I'm starting to sound bitter again, not positive.
I do not plan on bringing his so-called 'family' up to him anymore - that's his cross to bear. They will push him too far soon enough as they always do. His sister is working on milking him for every cent he has. I only want to get him thinking that nothing is unfixable. I know he still loves me, he just won't admit it to himself. He has even said that he may have filed but it can be stopped, so that does not sound like someone sure of his actions. I just fear that by going completely dark he will get the I told you so's and it will simply help him in forgetting that his life with us actually ever existed.
I don't know. I would really love Michele's opinion on this. As you said, my instincts are telling me that completly dark is not the way to go. I am giving him his space as asked, but I think cutting him off 100% is too extreme. I have decided that I will not send that e-mail today or this weekend - give him more time to notice the lack of communication.
Thank you for your wonderful advice. I have alot to think about!
I think going dark did just backfire on me. I wasn't sure, but it looked as if my husband had decided to drop his lawyer - a good thing for me. Now, as of yesterday - he has permanently retained his lawyer and he will be making appearances "on behalf" of his client. This paperwork was only filed yesterday - I dont know where to go from here.
Well, I sent him an e-mail at work yesterday telling him what it is that I would like. Basically I said that a lot of time has passed in which I have been working on myself and things that I see I need to change. I hope he has has the opportunity to think about the wheels that have been set in motion.
I said:
quote: It’s time to stop reacting negatively, and to start acting positively. We started on a vicious cycle and it’s time we put on the brakes and take a good look at what we are doing to our lives. That is why I filed for Conciliation. This is where I stand right now:
I do not want a divorce I would like us to be friends again I would like to start over - stop looking at the past and start looking at the future I would like us to date each other again I would like us to give reconciliation a xx month try (3 mos, 4 mos?) If you still feel as strongly about divorce then as you do now, I will give you my full cooperation.
I am sure he feels that I am pushing him into concilliation and that's why he got the lawyer back. I wanted to try to smooth that over and the rest I took from letter's others have sent their spouses. I also told him that I am trying to give him his space. I sent this on Monday. Surprise, no response.
It's so hard not to get your hopes up. How do you make progress with someone who might as well have fallen off the face of the earth? He avoids anything to do with his "old life", including his own child and he is pushing the D through as fast as he can without thought. It is sooo frustrating!
Shawn, I don't mean to burst your balloon, but I think it is rare that when someone has truly made up their mind, do they come back. I wish I was wrong.
Question is: Has he made up his mind? His family has made up theirs and for the moment he is allowing them to call the shots, but I still see him bouncing back and forth. He put down a deposit on a house with me, then backed out a week later just before signing? He wants counseling, he doesn't, he needs to think, he's thought about it. Doesn't sound like anything is made up to me. It looks like he is avoiding the issue so that he doesn't have to make up his mind. My H has had a big problem lately with making any kind of decisions of any kind, and I know now that that is part of the depression.
I refuse to give up hope, although I know it sounds some times like I have. This emotional roller-coaster is hell and I only hope that when the ride ends, we are together again.
