Well, last night was not so good. W was depressed again. I really don't know why. She doesn't really talk much about the specifics. Hell, there may not even be any specific thing she's upset about. I'm starting to think she has a real mental health issue. Once again she said she wanted "help" but would not elaborate on what that would be, and this morning, when I asked her about last night, she just brushed it aside. She said she was fine and gave me a big hug and smile.
Last night she was not sure she could "go on" (although she made it clear she was not talking about suicide), was "pretending to be happy all the time" and was just tired of life. She was not really crying but was clearly very upset. I don't know if she had been drinking a lot. I went to bed an hour before all this started.
All in all, it wasn't too bad but I am getting really frustrated at this cycle of her "depression" followed by "I'm not feeling well" the next day, followed by a week or so of "good" days.
I suppose if it were not so dramatic I would just think this was one more time (or set of times) that I need to learn to listen, validate, comfort and just allow her to move on. Maybe that IS all that is required of me, I don't know. It just seems like she's actually ASKING me to fix her but I don't know how, or more accurately, I know she needs to see a doctor but I can't get her to do it. I know that's the first step but today, like ALL days after a bad night, she's doing her best "Everything is fine, I was just having a bad night. I am really ok, I promise..." routine.
This is nothing really new. She has had these "episodes" for as long as I have known her, it's just the intensity and frequency that has increased lately.
I DO think my handling of this stuff is making a difference. She seems to be opening up to me more.
In the end, referring back to Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, I guess this may be one of those times when a woman may be dramatizing something, seeming to be saying some pretty "final" things but is actually just venting, wanting to be validated and allowed to get it all out. I hope so because that's how I am treating it. I still think there is some "fixing" to be done but I want her to fix herself. I just don't know if she either knows how or will even if she does.
So, more good than bad days lately. Hope that continues...
Quote: I suppose if it were not so dramatic I would just think this was one more time (or set of times) that I need to learn to listen, validate, comfort and just allow her to move on. Maybe that IS all that is required of me, I don't know.
I think you nailed it, bro. I don't think women EVER want to be told HOW or WHY unless they ask first for something very specific. I've always had a hard time understanding that, cause if I talk about a problem, and someone knows how to fix, buddy I want to know what the fix is.
Sometimes I think many women really don't care if something is "fixed" or "broken"...they just want to know you're there.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
You know, GH, this might come a bit out of left field here, but I wonder if your desire to fix your W or fix yourself or your life to address what seems to be causing your W distress, whether it's asked for or not, is preventing her from reaching the point where she will take action on her own issues. It's pretty clear that she has some issues with depression, which she medicates with drink or the A she had, and she is somewhat in denial of the problem. I think, as I think you do as well, that she could greatly benefit from therapy.
I don't know any better what it will take for her to take action on her stuff herself, but at some point it has to happen. I think it's good for your relationship that she's opening up and expressing her feelings, but I don't think expressing her feelings will resolve anything. I think she needs to address the cause of the feelings. She is far too willing to write off what she was dwelling on the night before (because she feels ok the next day even though nothing has changed) - and this strikes me as denial, and is unhealthy.
I re-read the DR chapter on depression, and it really is striking just how many of the criteria my wife met. The thought patterns that MWD discusses are the most troubling thing, as the person suffering depression has to change their perspective themselves. Give it a read.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
TL, I do think you are right on, and muddle, I think you are right too.
TL's comments are more relating to MY change I needed to make in terms of always wanting to fix my W, and I have tried REALLY hard to get that out of my system. I think I have done a pretty good job with that.
As for Muddle's comments, muddle, I think you have it right and for that matter, so does my W. She keeps saying that she knows what needs to be done and is trying to do it. The problem is that she has a SEVERE aversion to therapy or even doctors for that matter. I try to get to the bottom of that with her but she stonewalls me everytime.
I think she is close to doing something real this time, like at least seeing a general doctor. I think that because for the first time ever, her "not feeling well" directly affected one of our S's. She had me come home early and pick her up, pick the kids up from school with her and they (W & Kids) went with me to a job I had yesterday afternoon. S6 was supposed to go to his second soccer practice, and since he's never played before it's important he go. He missed practice because of her "not feeling well" enough to drive him on her own and it tore her up. As if she wasn't feeling $hitty enough, she got really down about that.
I asked her a few times what it would take for her to "do something" about all this and she said it wouldn't take anything. I also told her that she needed to not drink, or do SOMETHING so that every Monday didn't go that way. I siad that my work was being affected and so was the kid's schedule. I thought she was going to get upset at my saying this but it needed to be said. She didn't get upset and instead said it not only needed to stop on Sundays, but it needed to not ever happen again (I assume she means drinking too much and then feeling the way she does the day after) and she "knew what needed to be done", which I assume is to stop drinking.
I hope she gets the clue sooner rather than later. I am worried about her and I think as direct and maybe harsh as I was yesterday, I have expressed only my concern, not any attempt to control or "father" her. She has openly resented me in the past for that kind of thing and I think she is appreciating my new approach much more.
I know I can't fix her but I do want to encourage her to fix herself, and yes muddle, that means not being so quick to save her. Actually I am not so quick anymore but when it comes to the kids, I do step in and make as sure as I can that they are done right by.
So, all is semi-well in GH-land, especially when you realize that these depression/panic/anxiety issues have been around since day one with my W. It's actually nice to have stripped away a lot of the A garbage so we can get back to those issues and others that are more to the heart of our problems.
As messed up as it sounds, if where we are now is her being depressed and having panic attacks BUT telling me about it and ASKING for help, I think we are actually farther along than we were before the A happened, and after all, isn't that what we all say we want?
I want a perfect life but a good life is still better than what we had before.
Quote: I asked her a few times what it would take for her to "do something" about all this and she said it wouldn't take anything. I also told her that she needed to not drink, or do SOMETHING so that every Monday didn't go that way.
Instead of syaing what she needs to 'not' do, which we don't internalize anyway because we don't hear 'no' in sentences, why not ask her what you CAN do together to spend Sunday differently? You only break a habit or behavior by replacing it with something else.
Actually Frank, that's a good thought, one that I can apply elsewhere, but Sunday night is really no different than Friday or Saturday in that sometimes she drinks a bit too much. The thing we can do differently is for her not to drink. Other than that, we do the same things (Watch a little TV/movie/talk, get the kid's stuff ready for Monday and go to bed) as we do most other nights. It just seems like she's not gotten used to Sunday not being a "free" night like it was in the summer.
I THINK she got the message this weekend and like I said, I REALLY will take to heart your suggestion going forward that I not use "no" and "not", replacing them with more positive suggestions/ideas.
As for replacing her "habit" with something else, she USED to drink tea at night, a habit she's starting to get back to on nights she doesn't have her wine. That is a REALLY promising sign since it's been a LONG time since she's done that, and for me, a sign that she's trying to do something else other than just break the habit. She IS trying to replace it, or rather go back to how she was years ago, something that I think we both know would be healthier for her.
Quote: She didn't get upset and instead said it not only needed to stop on Sundays, but it needed to not ever happen again (I assume she means drinking too much and then feeling the way she does the day after) and she "knew what needed to be done", which I assume is to stop drinking.
That's a couple of assumptions in there, GH. I would suggest that you wrap up convos by summarizing an action plan to make sure that both of you are on the same page:
"So, just to make sure we understand each other, you are agreeing to stop drinking on Sundays, correct? Is this a plan that you are implementing immediately?"
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Quote: As for replacing her "habit" with something else, she USED to drink tea at night, a habit she's starting to get back to on nights she doesn't have her wine. That is a REALLY promising sign since it's been a LONG time since she's done that, and for me, a sign that she's trying to do something else other than just break the habit.
Offer to make tea then.
You're a good man. She knows it. It will work out.
I second the tea thing. Don't just make one for her at night. Make a cup for yourself too.
I think my H has made a cup of tea for each of us every single morning we have been together for our entire marriage (actually, while we were dating too.) As far as I can tell, for those across the pond, drinking tea can be a comfort thing. Drinking tea together each night can be a chance for you and your W to reconnect every day.
GH, This tea thing you're onto seems to be a big hit on the board. Geez, give her the whole pot! I wanted to introduce you to a book that might be helpful. It was the first one I read when my W dropped the "I don't love you" bomb. It helped alot to see what depression can do to a persons thinking and how it can F*** up their life and the R. It's called "Depression Fallout: The Impact of Depression on Couples and What You Can Do to Preserve the Bond" by Anne Sheffield. I've been meaning to give you the title but, you know, life gets in the way! So here it is.
I wanted to introduce you to a book that might be helpful. It was the first one I read when my W dropped the "I don't love you" bomb. It helped alot to see what depression can do to a persons thinking and how it can F*** up their life and the R. It's called "Depression Fallout: The Impact of Depression on Couples and What You Can Do to Preserve the Bond" by Anne Sheffield. I've been meaning to give you the title but, you know, life gets in the way! So here it is.