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#50976 - 06/07/02 02:20 PM Re: "Going Dark" - 101
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
"this is where my confusion is, i am remaining totally committed 2 the changes in me cos they r making me a better person "4 better or worse" however now i am looking 2 move out and give her space, i have not announced my intention to do so and it is gonna b very difficult 4 several reasons"

You don't HAVE to move out in order to give her space.
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JJ

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#50977 - 06/07/02 02:49 PM Re: "Going Dark" - 101
Phoenix Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 1234
Thank You! That's what I was trying to explain to rearely on his last thread but I think my fingers get all twisted sometimes...

This thread has taken a really important turn. So many people try techniques that are comfortable for them (going dark when they usually withdraw or become extra supportive when they usually hover) - But they're likely to have more success if they dip into what is uncomfortable for them. And if they expect the object of their DBing to react in strange ways. Usually with more of their same, or a negative reaction at first and probably for a while; depending on the situation.

I especially appreciate Michele jumping in there and clarifying that. Thanks again JJ for another Gem!

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#50978 - 06/07/02 03:22 PM Re: "Going Dark" - 101
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix:
But they're likely to have more success if they dip into what is uncomfortable for them. And if they expect the object of their DBing to react in strange ways. Usually with more of their same, or a negative reaction at first and probably for a while; depending on the situation.

SOOOO very true, my friend.

If you're doing a true 180, it probably SHOULD be very uncomfortable to you. And to them.

Remember, when you are doing a 180, you are really just "renting" it, trying it on for size. It doesn't have to become a PERMANENT part of your life. Often, we'll find that a good balance will be somewhere between what our extreme 180 is, and where we are now.

Taking your life off of "autopilot" can be uncomfortable. However, every small thing you do differently starts the butterfly effect in motion.

Sometimes, your partner WILL get pissed at you for changing the dance steps, for taking them off of THEIR autopilot. But that ain't neccessarily a BAD thing.
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JJ

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#50979 - 06/07/02 04:08 PM Re: "Going Dark" - 101
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
aplamado - What are some of the things that are helping you to "stay dark" while still living in the same house?
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JJ

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#50980 - 06/08/02 04:21 AM Re: "Going Dark" - 101
rearly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 937
Loc: england
quote:
Originally posted by Jamesjohn:
You don't HAVE to move out in order to give her space.

quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix:
Thank You! That's what I was trying to explain to rearely on his last thread but I think my fingers get all twisted sometimes...

This thread has taken a really important turn. So many people try techniques that are comfortable for them (going dark when they usually withdraw or become extra supportive when they usually hover) - But they're likely to have more success if they dip into what is uncomfortable for them. And if they expect the object of their DBing to react in strange ways. Usually with more of their same, or a negative reaction at first and probably for a while; depending on the situation.

I especially appreciate Michele jumping in there and clarifying that. Thanks again JJ for another Gem!

OK now i am really confused

let me c if i can make sense from my perspective:
  • if i stay dark then, based on my past performance(pre DB), i am not changing... my SO will continue 2 slip away, whether i stay at home or not.
  • if i take charge (of myself) and stay in the house; this can b seen as pursuit, manipulative or, 2 little 2 late. however this is also likely 2, with adjustments, have the greatest benefit in the long term 4 ME if i stay constant so the changed me becomes the REAL me
sorry if i seem thick, mispent youth, lost brain cells, etc
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rearly - still smiling

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#50981 - 06/08/02 04:37 AM Re: "Going Dark" - 101
rearly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 937
Loc: england
sorry about this however cannot edit posts at the moment... as this is not my thread 2 hijack i thought that if i include a link then (heaven forbid) u would come visit the DB shuttle is leaving for smilie space - all aboard!! [Cool]
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rearly - still smiling

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#50982 - 06/08/02 05:19 AM Re: "Going Dark" - 101
Wardacres Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 118
Loc: Missouri
JJ, read all the comments on your thread and they were very helpful. W and I are not living together now..she's in her house and me in mine. Haven't heard a word from her...prior to DBing, I would email her and attempt to call her. She simply deleted my emails and won't answer the phone. Haven't attempted any of that in 3 weeks but it's killing me by having NO contact...good or bad!

How and when do I attempt contact? She's stubborn and I don't ever see her contacting me again...it's going to have to be me doing the contacting. She's also got her sister, and other girlfriends giving her the old advice of "dump him, find someone new"...I'm at wit's end...

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#50983 - 06/08/02 07:33 AM Re: "Going Dark" - 101
aplomado Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 117
Loc: Texas
JJ ~

I have very much shut myself down emotionally with W in that I do not initiate any physical contact, no ILYs (she knows that I love her) or initiate OR talks (never were many b4 [her deal, not mine] and they certainly stopped entirely with MLC). I am there if she needs something, I listen attentively to whatever she has to say, however, I listen like a lover not a lawyer (I'm very analytical). I am giving her all the "Space" she wants to do as she wants without me being in her face or questioning anything. I used to bring her flowers every Friday and did many other things for her. That has all stopped. No telephone calls during the day, either. As I mentioned in a different post, when our 19th anniversary arrived last month, I did nothing ~ no flowers, no card, no mention of it. This is a real 180 for me but I didn't want to remind her of "us." I saw it more as a "dark" thing than a 180. The morning of the anniversary she asked if we could go to dinner for our anniversay (she was first to mention the date). I told her that I would go to dinner with her in honor of our anniversary only if it wouldn't be our last anniversary. This was not presented as pursuit but a statement of how I felt about the situation ~ I was not about to celebrate a sham, if that's all it was to her. Turned out we had a very pleasant evening.

But, the pursuit has totally stopped and I spend more time doing other things and time with the children. She is geting no pressure from me to do anything; she has all the time in the world to think through whatever it is she is thinking about. If she wants to discuss anything with me, I am available.

I am not new to DB but was led astray by my wife in my first go 'round. After getting THE BOMB in August of 2000, only days after being told how wonderful I was, I went out after everything I could find to help including individual and joint therapy. I found Michelle's book in late June of 2001. Last July I had a very serious OR discussion with W(I did not have DR yet; I now know better) and she said she would read DB. While she only read half of the book, things suddenly got better. By October things were much improved and she told me she was happy and wouldn't be leaving after all. When I asked what had changed, she said, "I read your book. I wanted change so I changed." I found out at the end of this April that she had reverted to her original stance and again wanted a divorce. Angry at being misled again I took off my wedding ring and told her that since it was a symbol of her love for me to take it back; it was meaningless. She would not take it back, so we talked. I found a little more light in that black hole when I asked her about why she didn't finish the book. Her - I read most of it. Me (the lawyer) - Your book mark is on page 149, that's hardly half. Her - I got frustrated because it never said how to rekindle the flame.

WOW [Cool] [Big Grin] There is hope!!!

I bought another copy of DR (the original copy had mysteriously disappeared) found this wonderful bb (y'all have saved my sanity) and arranged a telephone consult with Vernetta (there are no SBTs here or anywhere near here). She advised that I go DARK. I spoke with wife about KLA (I had already ordered the tapes for myself) since she was, at least at one time, interested in rekindling the flame. I mentioned Vernetta and she agreed to talk with her. Vernetta was gracious enough to speak with her on the only day W has available which is not a normal day for Vernetta to take calls ~ God bless you , Vernetta. She said she found the talk very useful and is also listening to the KLA tapes.

So, I am being very calm and detached but not uncaring, acting "AS IF" and letting her work through things. I am there as a friend when she wants me but I am NOT pursuing at all. Thanks to this board, I understand how it works.

~ aplomado

dd just asked if I'd go get some fresh Krispy Kreme donuts. Guess where I'm headed? Right! [Big Grin]
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~ aplomado

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#50984 - 06/10/02 02:21 PM Re: "Going Dark" - 101
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
let me c if i can make sense from my perspective:

rearly -

"if i stay dark then, based on my past performance(pre DB), i am not changing... my SO will continue 2 slip away, whether i stay at home or not.
if i take charge (of myself) and stay in the house; this can b seen as pursuit, manipulative or, 2 little 2 late. however this is also likely 2, with adjustments, have the greatest benefit in the long term 4 ME if i stay constant so the changed me becomes the REAL me"


By George, you've got it! By George, I think you've got it!

One of your key phrases there was "taking charge of yourself". From what you said earlier, it sounds like YOU moving would be a pretty big hardship for you at this time. So, let her move if she wants out.

Take a look at what aplamado wrote about how he's doing it. Looks like some pretty good stuff there.

"Actions speak louder than words".

Will check out your thread here in a bit. [Smile]

"sorry if i seem thick, mispent youth, lost brain cells, etc"

I thought that I recognized you from those parties! [Big Grin]
_________________________
JJ

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#50985 - 06/10/02 05:00 PM Re: "Going Dark" - 101
sgctxok Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/01
Posts: 10731
^
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sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001

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