Thanks for the suggestion. I will do something like that. He's probably thinking I am ignoring him since he sent it last night and I have not yet replied. OOPS.
I will copy the statements for you later this evening. Not sure if I put this in the previous post, but I wrote a letter to my mother-in-law asking her forgiveness, too. I remembered H recently told me that I had hurt her feelings by making her feel excluded at one of the family functions a few years ago. So I wrote her explaining that I wasn't excluding her by not asking her to cook or clean at my house, but rather I was wanting her to be able to sit back and relax. Then I asked her to forgive me for the incident. Kind of felt like when you go through a 12-step program and you start asking others to forgive you (my father was in AA; so I am familiar w/ the 12-steps). It was a nice feeling. I just hope she appreciates what I am doing.
I sent him this - "Thanks for giving me the space I continue to need." I didn't want to put as we continue to work...b/c I felt like that might give false hope. Remember, that I am feeling like I am the only one working. I thought about adding "Continue to work on yourself." b/c I don't know that he is doing anything.
He responded, naturally... "Not a problem. Take care and I will talk to you soon." I am not responding to this message.
sniff sniff. That kind of smells like progress. Good idea not to answer the last text from him. Maybe he is getting the message, at least a little. Be prepared for some back sliding. It is difficult from this side of the fence. I feel I am making progress, and maybe I have, but then I get caught up in the "I'm changing" pattern and it pushes her away. Maybe you could have some sort of plan to gently stop him if he starts R talk. Something that tells him I need space and to not talk about this right now. I also think maybe something to reward him if he does keep the conversations off the R. That is touchy because it could give him false hope again. Just thoughts. I will think some more when I am at the gym and see if there is any ideas of gentle rebuffs and very minor rewards bouncing around this thick skull of mine. Of course that is assuming you would even want to go that route. Then again, this is the first workout of my new life, so my arms may hurt so bad, that I cannot type.
M - Just don't expect H to be a mind reader about what you want. It is one thing to want him to be working on the R and see that he is not so inclined. Fine to be pissed with him about that. But if he is not doing anything and you have not said, "Hey buster, I need to see the following changes in you" then it is unfair. I am not saying that is the case, I just want to urge you to keep an open mind and to "Ask for what you want". What is that , step 2 or 3?
I know, I know - don't set him up for failure. I just sent him an instant message asking if we could talk about OR tonight instead of on our date.
I want to ask a couple of questions - like what has he been doing to work on himself? What sites has he found helpful in dealing with the R.? Has he read any good books regarding Rs? That kind of thing - to find out if he is trying to improve anything. Or maybe he is just doing stuff on his own w/o help or assistance.
If he hasn't done any of the above, then I will tell him specific things I would like, like for him to read DR, for him to set short-term goals, maybe even for us to set a few goals together, etc.
I just need to know how committed he really is. I mean it's one thing to "say" you will do whatever it takes to make us work and be happy together, but it is a whole different thing to actually "do" the actions to get you there.
M - Us men are funny. Most of us don't "get it" until our W's whack us over the head with a 2x4. There are tons of us that should have signed on as "oblivious" but unfortunately that name was taken. However, it seems your H requires something more substantial. Perhaps a 4x4 or house dropped on his head. Hmm.
Quote: I want to ask a couple of questions - like what has he been doing to work on himself? What sites has he found helpful in dealing with the R? Has he read any good books regarding Rs? That kind of thing - to find out if he is trying to improve anything. Or maybe he is just doing stuff on his own w/o help or assistance.
You might just tell him you need to see evidence that he is committed to your R, and what this means to you. Sounds like it means he needs to gain some self-awareness about how he is acting and how it affects others (namely you). I guess it is a bit of an ultimatum you are giving him, and I can understand that. When you have one foot out the door, why hang around when someone won't meet you halfway? I tell you, if my W gave me the offer you are giving your H I would be all over it.
One thing is that maybe you need to be a bit more specific about what it will take your needs. Just think about a short list of things you want to see him do differently. Maybe not R related - but like fixing money issues - and say, for now, work on this and I will remain open to reconciliation.
You might also want to read DR together and get together to discuss every couple days - that way you can see if he is "getting it"
Hope that helps. your input to my sitch yesterday was very helpful.
Well, M, what happened? Did you call your H? How did it go?
I agree with DinWa. If my W offered what you are offering, I would be all over it. I have just started peeling back the onion of my life layer after layer, and there are many more to go, and I am sure it is the same with your H (and just about everyone in this world). It is nice to know what we are doing wrong. My W tried to tell me, but I was not listening. Now that I am listening, she no longer wants to tell me.
Yes, I called. We talked for 2 hours! Which, btw, is why I forgot to look up the 6 steps for you. Well, it started out where I asked him the question - what is he doing to work on himself? He said reading the book on money issues to remind himself what he learned in counseling, he said reading a R book (I think it's men are like waffles and women are like speghetti - it's about communication differences) and reading the bible for inspiration. However, I was a little disappointed b/c we bought those 2 books before I even left - 8 months later he is still reading them? I let it go and didn't question him anymore about it. I was like "Good! What are you doing to work on OR (us)?" . He said that's kind of hard since you are not here working with me. I said true, but there are still things you could be doing, to make sure we are good together again. I asked about his personal goals, he basically said he didn't have any b/c he only wanted us to fix things and get back together.
At this point, he was getting a bit defensive. He started telling me that it seemed like I had this check list of things I was expecting and he felt like he wasn't getting a lot of checks. I said that I had no hidden agenda; that I just wanted to see how committed he was and I was trying to get a feel for his plans/goals.
I said I would like to see him work on his anger. He then said "I DON'T HAVE AN ANGER PROBLEM". So I said "Then why are you yelling at me?". It just went back and forth where he kept yelling or talking really loud (I could put the phone on the counter and just stand there and hear him clearly).
After the first 45 minutes of this bantering, I said I was sorry I contacted him. I did not want to fight. I was only trying to see what he was actively doing to "fix us" as he always says. I told him I would see him Sat. and no R talk. He calmed down slightly, and continued to talk, saying he was trying to pay off debt as he could and that he just wanted me back. He said he wanted to do things around the house w/ me, etc. I asked him what changed? He used to let me do it all - so why did he now want to do it with me. I told him that I know I should just accept that he is offering, but b/c of our repeated history of him helping out in the beginning and then slacking off shortly after, I needed to understand his motive for wanting to do the mundane household things together. I asked if it was b/c he was doing them himself and realized what a pain in the butt they are and how much better it was to have company while doing them? He said yes, basically.
Anyway, I said that I would really like him to work on the anger. I said he didn't have to go to therapy, but that he could just read a book on controlling his anger. This seemed ok, no agreement, but no argument either. I was rather proud of myself...normally I would have cried or been disappointed and just stopped trying. But this time, I was relatively calm. When he would tell me that he just wanted to take care of me, I would ask him so what would you be doing to "take care of me"? I asked what would he be doing, specifically what actions was he going to take in order to meet my needs. I thought I put him on the spot, so I said you don't have to answer right now. Just think about it. What will you be doing differently? Then he said, first of all I need to know what you need me to do to meet your needs. I was like ah-ha...getting there. I did let him watch tape 1 w/ me. I said so do you want a full list of things I want/need or do you want me to just give you two or three and start with those. He said he wanted the whole list eventually, but he'd start w/ 2-3 upfront. I felt like he wanted to continue talking, but I was ready to end the conversation - 2 hours of R talk was about all I could take, especially w/ the rocky beginning.
After that, I went to work out - needed to release tension. Then I went about my nightly routine, dinner, a little tv, journaling and then to bed. I will get you the steps today/tonight. Writing myself a note and no R talk should keep my mind on track!
I forgot to mention, when I suggested he work on his anger; he immediaely said he didn't have an anger issue. I, of course, provided examples. Then he said I was reacting emotionally and if ______ (one of my girlfriends who encouraged my to S) thinks that b/c of that incident I need to work on my anger, well she doesn't know me. That was just one time.....blah, blah, blah. I said she wasn't there. I am asking you to work on your anger. That seemed to shut him up for a moment!
But thinking about it today; she was there. But she didn't say anything about it. It is still me who wants him to work on the anger.
M - Well, that sounds like progress. Does it feel like progress, especially after having some time to think about it? It sounds like you handled yourself very well. Congrats.
Between Gene and I, I think you have 2 votes for the Anger Trap as a good resource for your H. I didn't think I had an issue either, then I read the book and a lot of things made sense. Of course, I was then instantly labeled by my W, but that is another story.
