Glad I could add a little jocularity into this all. Humor is needed all the time. Does your H have a good sense of humor?
Hopefully, in a new R or back with your H, the happy fun times will not be little. If there is anything I learned from Michele's books and tapes and coach, a relationship can be great. I have learned how to stop being angry. I have learned that I need to stop controlling, still need to learn how to do that. I want to have open times where my W and I can talk about our needs and how they are being met, and how those that aren't can be met. That is one thing that makes it so hard for the H of a WAW to back off on. I see things that can make it better, and I am so ready to implement those to make the M better, but my W, similar to you, needs her space and not talk about the R, while seeing me do things to prove I am changing, which would make the M better. It is a difficult conundrum (spelling?). The key is patience. Again, in your case, your H does not know that he needs the patience. I will be saying a prayer for him to learn, and a prayer for you to come to a decision when the time is right, and that the decision is right for you and your happiness. As for me, I have not bothered my W, and I am letting her come to me when she is ready to talk or needs something. I would like to offer her more help tomorrow, and let her know that I am not trying to control anything with this offer (I know that sounds contradictory to the last sentence). It looks like W got her student loan, and may not need my help.
Be happy for her. Congratulate her on the student loan. Kepp letting her come to you.
I feel like talking to H, but at the same time I do not want to give him false hope. I know that I need to spend time with him to see the changes. I just hope that our time together is spent enjoying each others company and not talking about our R, at least not yet. I want to see more effort and changes before getting into the R discussion.
I'll keep you posted as to how our evening goes Saturday. I am avoiding contact until then. Should I contact him to arrange the meeting since I was the one asking for the time and space?
Remeber how I was getting upset (for lack of a better word) that he wasn't out on message boards or M saving sites? The response was maybe he isn't aware of them, etc.
Well, I was just cleaning out my e-mail box here at work and found an e-mail I sent him Jan 3 - with the link to divorcesource.com (this site) asking him what he thought about the Marriage Breakthrough video tapes. Obviously, he didn't take any time to surf it.
It may be a good idea to confirm your Saturday plans in an email maybe. That would not give him a lot to begin talking R.
I just looked at divorcesource.com. It is not this site, divorcebusting.com, but it may have a link in there somewhere. Thanks for pointing that one out. I am going to buy another book from there to help with my sitch. The site looked kind of big, so he may not have seen this site linked in. I didn't in my quick search. Is there any way you could check credit card purchases to see if he bought anything from there?
I can tell you something my W did that got my attention about not talking about R. She told me that she did not want to talk about our Relationship right now, that it was too painfull, and that since I did not respect that from now on if I brought it up she would walk off. She never left, but I realized how much it actually hurt her and I gradually stopped talking about R. Partly because I knew it was driving her away, partly because it hurt her and partly because it got us no-where. Maybe telling him this and enforcing your boundries (by walking away) will enable him to understand. It would be very hard, but it may be worth a shot. If you try something like this dont expect perfection, for instance if he talks about R every time you meet, consider it a success if only talks R every other time. Baby steps. What would be the first indication that things are heading in the right direction, however small?
If he did purchase anything out there it would have been on his debit card, which is attached to his checking. That's another painful subject....when I moved out we agreed I would take this bill, he would keep that bill and so on. We also agreed that we would keep our accounts the same.
About two weeks out, I found out (from his sister) that H opened new checking and savings accounts. I also learned that he got a new check card, etc. It killed me. It hurt me b/c 1) he was so adamant that I not separate our finances or insurance or gym memberships, etc. and 2) b/c I heard it from his sister; not him.
Why did he open new accounts and change his direct depoist, etc. and separate our finances? I asked him this; he said it was so he could show me he was being responsible with money (since that was such a HUGE issue between us). He thought it would help us. Then why not discuss it with me? He said he did - right after he told me that he was filing for a D.
All it did was hurt me. I think it hurt me b/c we did not discuss it - he just decided he wanted new accounts. I was not consulted. I felt like it was so I wouldn't see what he was purchasing, how much his checks were, etc.
A month or so later (July or August), I finally opened my own checking. About a month ago (mid-Novemeber), I opened a savings and got a new check card, too. Up until then, he could see everything I was doing.
All these little hurts just add up and now I don't care what he is doing. I find it really hard to want to be w/ someone who continues to do things that hurt me. I mean, why get me to agree to keep our accounts joint and then go open his own? I felt like it was spiteful.
It's kind of like one day, shortly after I moved out, we were arguing and he just came out and said he was going to file for a D. After the shock wore off; I just started crying. He said he was going to file b/c that's what I wanted. I said fine. Then Monday, I announced to our friends and family that we had separated and were getting a D. I talked to him shortly after that and he said he didn't want to get D. Maybe the threat of a D was his way of trying to manipulate me???
When I did the forgiveness exercises, I did one forgiving him for constantly using manipulation to get what he wants. I had forgotten about the new accoutns and the threat of D until you asked if I could check his credit cards....wow - it still stings.
I am running out of things to tell you. I thought I was bad, and I was. Actually, my W saw how much my last paycheck was, and now how much financially she is struggling, and it made her mad. I just opened another account so that I can get direct deposit without her seeing it. I thought I was helping her, but it was a bad move to not tell her. I will tell her tonight, as well as offering to help her more. Can you think of a way to offer that would not seem controlling.
I agree with Hope a little. If he does not talk about the R but maybe only 50% of the time, would that be progress? If things started to change, what would be some of the first signs? Have you finished the book to the point where maybe you could give it to him on Saturday? Happy Birthday, by the way.
From my own personal situation, I often asked for forgiveness about many things and my W indicated that it does little good when I just repeat the same thing I'm apologizing for.
In your situation, I think it may be very difficult to forgive things that are presently a problem and haven't resolved in any way. I know that working on a problem is difficult when you haven't let go of the resentment and forgiven your S, but a blanket pardon, even when he continues the same old things probably isn't reasonable either. Continue to think of different ways to approach the solution. Maybe there were times when things worked out okay and think about what was different about those times. Change things up a bit.
Wes
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
I was just loooking at the other website and I don't see a link to this site, but I would hope that he would take initative and look for other things himself. I might ask him about it Saturday night. Casually . . . I will not make a big deal about it. I might just say, "btw, I found a few websites on saving marriages that I found helpful. Have you found any that you like? If he hasn't looked for that kind of thing; I will try to not be crushed and I will work on my "act as if" if doesn't bother me that he isn't making an initative to save "us".
As far as offering to help your W financially, I would say something like, "My pay check was more than usual. I wanted to give you some additional money." and then just be ready with the cash/check or however you help her normally. I wouldn't give her a check from your new account - trust me, women are sneaky. If I had his account number, I could easily find out his balance, pay amount, etc. b/c I know his social security number, passwords, etc.
YES, YES, YES - tell her about the new account. I don't care what you say, but tell her about it. You could tell her that you opened it so that you would not make her have to keep up w/ both of you writing checks or getting money from the one account or whatever "positive" reason. I don't know that I would say - I opened it so you wouldn't see how much my checks were and get upset. You can tell her the real reason later. Much later, after you are back together and living the happily ever-after. Whatever you do, tell her. Look at it this way - if she took out the student loan w/o your knowledge, how would you feel? If the situation was reversed; would you want her to tell you she opened an account? Let me just tell you that if you are trying to regain her trust and faith in you, then you need to tell her. It may still hurt her a little, but it will be so much better upfront and coming from you.
Thanks for the suggestion. Usually when I walk off, he follows me. It's more than just following me around though. I am not sure how to describe it. It's like he wants so much for me to give him the answer he wants that he "badgers" me. He will go on and on about whatever; until I eventually I give in. Not b/c this is what I want to do, but more to get him to stop. He will follow me, and then block me in a corner and continue asking me why we can't work things out. The only way I have been able to get away from the sitch is to agree w/ him.
H is controlling and emotionally abusive. He doesn't ever hit me, but he will hold me against my will. In the early years, I called the cops on him b/c he would scare me. At one point, I thought about putting a restraining order against him to get him to leave me alone. When we have broken up in the past, he would just show up wherever I was, leave notes, cards, flowers, etc on my car. His behavior, when I have left before, borders on stalking.
