What can I do differently?

[MamaG]

H and I had planned a vacation for this past week but MLC nixed that. As such, we were both not working. I typically see my H 2x a week for cancer appts - spend 4 to 5 hours a day with him, until he 'has to go home to...'. This week, I've seen him 4 out of 5 days. I looked forward to it so much (secretively). H is pleasant but his need to escape is so prevalent. It seems to hurt more when I see him more. Today, H left to go home to take a nap. Really? H is in our home and needs to leave to take a nap. People say I'm strong and days like today, I don't see it. The pain, heartache, disappointment just don't stop. H left and I curled up in bed just ugly crying. My reaction to H's unwarned "I'm going to go home to take a nap before my appointment." announcement caught me off guard and I immediately switched from content to visibly disappointed. H noticed and felt guilty...started to talk really nice and thanked me for a delicious lunch. "Did you get those burgers on sale?" I responded with a snarky response. H's request for a hug good-bye was reluctantly reciprocated and off he went. I acted like a 2 year old with a tantrum. So disappointed. sigh.

[Ready2Change]

Anything attractive about your behavior when you were interacting with him? Anything you want to change?

It is like playing poker. Hold all your beliefs,thoughts,expectations,questions,emotions ect tight while interacting with him. He thinks he knows you. Right now, your goal is to prove him wrong.

And yes, by all means let out all the emotions when he is not around. Cry your heart out. Scream, yell, curse when it is safe.


Give yourself permission and go do something nice things for yourself this weekend. Do your nails, hair, new outfit....whatever helps you feel good about yourself. Dinner and movie alone is perfectly acceptable (and enjoyable).

HUGS

[SteveLW]

MamaG, one thing you can do differently is to make a pact with yourself to not initiate anymore relationship talks. They are a cheeseless tunnel. Your mind is tricking you into believing that you need answers. The problem? R talks rarely provide answers. And usually result in even more questions. So it's a vicious cycle. Make the choice to break that cycle

Let this be your guiding principle: Never initiate an R talk. If he does, listen and validate (learn what that is) and nothing more. And be the one to end the discussion.

Really commit to this. LBSs that initiate R talks end up being the most frustrated. Remember, R talks are fruitless and unsatisfying. You probably already know this from your own experience. So learn from that experience.

Sorry you are here, but I'm so glad you found the forum. Lots of good folks here to help.

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

How was the weekend? Hopefully you enacted R2C’s wise advice and did something “just for you”.

I’m partial to a meal out. My hair and nails are pretty low maintenance. Haha.

My Q: with all the detail I've provided, can you call out other replay indicators/running behaviors that I'm just not connecting the dots to?

Some hallmarks of MLC are confusion and depression. Depression is ever present and there is lots of confusing behaviour. Their path is emotionally driven and not one of rational well thought out decisions. Rather which way to feel better, or feel less worse, or feel something, or feel nothing - depending upon what they are going through at that moment.

Overlay all that upon a teenage mentality and rebelliousness as well. A crisis person’s emotions are cranked to eleven! They have no bandwidth for you, their kids, their family, friends, work, nothing.

A strategy for these tortured and lost souls is compartmentalizing. Realize, they do not understand what is happening or why. Hence the irrational running away from their ceaseless torment.

Compartmentalizing can work, somewhat. It requires significant energies; the wearing of a different mask when out and about. Lots of MLCers let their mask drop when they are around their spouse, as they are simply tired of acting and wearing a “happy” face, and they know that we know who they are.

Of course, all these efforts are running from themselves. Building internal pressures. One of the most common types of MLCer is the boomerang type. They run off when their pressures get to much, and return/fly back when they cool down.

My XW was/is a vanisher. These types just leave. They just drop off the earth. No word from them. Like ever. Months, years, pass by.

In your posts there is plenty of behaviours from H that correlate to someone struggling with a crisis. An example except from your initial post/summary:

Aug 2023: H going out with friends until late hours and drinking. H's childhood friend passes of cancer

Sept 2023: Bomb drop requesting space because it's not going to work - H shouts out reasons: H will never take something out for dinner; H will never remember to take out the dog; H will never come up with his own todo list; H will never plan a vacation; I shouldn't tell him what music to listen to; H doesn't like how I manage money tightly. We didn't talk for 3 days until he called me from work to tell me that he's sick of being controlled and is filing for divorce due to irreconcilable differences. H goes out every night and reports back that he drives around for hours on end listening to music. H cringes at me saying "I love you". H can't be hugged or kissed. Started sleeping in son's bedroom. Asked me to not refer to him with pet names. H be called by his name only.

Oct 2023: H looks at houses and offer is accepted. H can't look at me; can't be touched; doesn't want to talk; H behaves as a teenager, coming home from bars and beginning to vape. H never drank other than socially; didn't vape or smoke since he was 20. H contacts mediator and we hold an intro session where H is very engaged in how fast can D happen. H still drives around for hours, can't be hugged or kissed. Still sleeping in son's bedroom. H is visibly depressed and cries 8 to 10 times a day in front of me. Pretends to be happy with others. H gets a tattoo because that's his therapy - when I asked him what it meant to him, he couldn't provide any clarity. I think he realized that as he tried to put words together.

No single item can definitively diagnosis H is in crisis. However, take his behaviour on the whole, the sheer “who is this guy?” of it, and a conclusion of crisis can be determined. A MLCer becomes the opposite of who they once were. They do all kinds of strange and - until now not normal for them - things. Staying out late, drinking, getting tattoos, being secretive, pulling away, cutting off pet names and other such fraternizing familiarity, finding new friends that understand them, and so on.

BTW, he is no longer going for long rides and is trying to not ghost me in between appointments. I've made him aware of it by showing texting history - he didn't know he was doing it but is now catching and adjusting it when he notices.

Be careful. Pressure.

H may see and acknowledge his behaviour. He might even work to do differently. Do not be the reason for it though. Do not manipulate his journey.

Firstly, you do not want that responsibility upon your head. If things were to take a wrong turn, a very wrong turn, and the LBS has been manipulating the crisis person’s path, the LBS will have lots of regret and remorse and guilt and such. You don’t want or need that kind of responsibility for H’s life and choices.

Secondly, H will not listen to you. Most MLCers are bogged down in denial. Remember, long ago, unrealized traumas. Their minds have denied their pain for decades! They have full denial in the face of consuming pain and torment. It takes much time for them to very slowly acknowledge this and slowly awaken to it. As such, they will fight against you and your wise counsel, thus prolonging, or stalling, their crisis. Best to let go.

Thirdly, these running behaviours are a pressure-relief to the MLCer. Being called out or having them pointed out, doesn’t end their crisis. The MLCer would likely just ignore you, however they could also do what you ask, and would then just start other more hidden behaviours. Maybe worse behaviours. They have to do something, they have to run. Best to let them run with what they have chosen. You don’t want worse behaviours to be because of your pressuring.

Let go and give him to God, or fate, or the universe, or whatever you believe in.

H and I had planned a vacation for this past week but MLC nixed that.

Why?

Go yourself!

If/when H flakes out, changes his mind last minute (which he is going to do), do not let his life and decisions ruin your life. Let go!

In my opinion: While H is living elsewhere, make no joint vacation plans. The most would be meeting up somewhere. As in, you each travelled separately, or made your own arrangements. And not for a week long get away. I would think H would unravel under that kind of pressure. I mean he “had” to go lay down in his own place before your cancer appointment. He is not ready, nor capable, of being with you for a week.

spend 4 to 5 hours a day with him, until he 'has to go home to...'. This week, I've seen him 4 out of 5 days. I looked forward to it so much (secretively).

Secretively is difficult. Small normal micro-emotions do and will come across. Your facial expression, body language, pattern of speech, wording choice, etc. We all express our emotional state through many channels. H will, maybe unknowingly, yet he will pick up on your looking forward to seeing him.

H is pleasant but his need to escape is so prevalent.

Yep.

You see his running. That need to escape. Stop being what and who he is escaping from. Let him go. Let him figure his stuff out.

The more you inject yourself into his sphere, the more he will blame and justify leaving, and not look towards the true cause. This goes hand and hand with the do not manipulate his path. Let H do as he will. While you live your life, focus on you, enforce necessary boundaries, and such.

Certainly, you can have H over, or see him once in a while. However, he needs to feel the loss, needs to grow. Boomerang types provide much more feedback and “proof” of their wild course than a vanisher. However, they are more work. Takes time to find your path and balance in all this.

It seems to hurt more when I see him more. Today, H left to go home to take a nap. Really? H is in our home and needs to leave to take a nap. People say I'm strong and days like today, I don't see it. The pain, heartache, disappointment just don't stop. H left and I curled up in bed just ugly crying. My reaction to H's unwarned "I'm going to go home to take a nap before my appointment." announcement caught me off guard and I immediately switched from content to visibly disappointed. H noticed and felt guilty...started to talk really nice and thanked me for a delicious lunch. "Did you get those burgers on sale?" I responded with a snarky response. H's request for a hug good-bye was reluctantly reciprocated and off he went. I acted like a 2 year old with a tantrum. So disappointed. sigh.

Expectations.

And unmet expectations turn to resentments.

Dial your expectations regarding H all the way down to zero. Have no expectation of what he might do. Expect anything and nothing.

So, make other arrangements for help regarding your appointments. Yes, cancer appointments are important. Do not leave such an important thing in the hands of an irresponsible teenager MLCer who is running from responsibilities.

I know you are primarily looking after your appointment. Take the next step and leave H out of the loop on this. Have a friend or family help - if/when necessary.

Doing so removes H from the equation. No H, and his behaviour won’t rattle you. Don’t worry, I think there will be plenty of other interactions where you can work on holding back snarky responses and such.

It’s ok, by the way. We all require our own releases too. A MLCer is difficult. Acknowledge and let out your frustrations about and regarding H, the situation, and such; before it boils over during some conversation or something H does. And he will do stuff. He will press your buttons.

Be gentle with yourself.

Hope you have a great day.

D

[MamaG]

Thank you for your response. I get the sense that he has been very lonely and outings with me is literally 90% of what gets him out of any depressing moods. This alone makes me want to tell H that I was canceling breakfast and R talks for Sunday.....and would reinforce to H lonely he would be on Sunday after several other lonely days without me. However, I also am strong enough to go to breakfast where he doesn't feel any pressure and is able to genuinely enjoy some laughs with me...and then be comfortable with no R talk if he's not up to it. And, so I kept the plans.

I did give it a lot of thought to your suggestion so I appreciate you for saying it. Please know you didn't fall on deaf ears.

After breakfast, we came 'home' and he asked to play cards (avoiding R talks and I went right along with it as I was prepared for this - TY). We shared many laughs - par for our course. After some time, he said that he didn't want to talk today. I calmly responded with, 'That's ok. I'm here when you're ready. There was relief but he wasn't surprised that I was ok with it bc he trusts that I won't pressure him. PHEW. I asked H if he was ready for me to help him find a therapist who could make it easier for him to share and talk through things. Looked like he pondered the idea with a delay in response and said, "Not yet but I've been really thinking about it." Is this escaping and avoiding too? Did he really want to R talk but didn't know what to say? Afterall, if H didn't want to talk, he could've dropped me off and just left without coming in at all.

I agree that he needs to miss me. Several months ago, I was keenly aware that H blamed me for his unhappiness. It was clearly my fault that he was needing a divorce. But based on where he is today, I am struggling to agree with "blames you for his unhappiness". There may be some of that but he's admitted that he has bad days that aren't because of me. Thoughts?

[MamaG]

In response to my request to help with understand replay behaviors, you noted, "Some hallmarks of MLC are confusion and depression. Depression is ever present and there is lots of confusing behaviour. Their path is emotionally driven and not one of rational well thought out decisions. Rather which way to feel better, or feel less worse, or feel something, or feel nothing - depending upon what they are going through at that moment." My understanding is that depression carries throughout all of MLC. I've definitely heard H out loud say, "I just want to feel happy. I'm looking to be happy in any moment rather than creating happiness." So, to start, the comment resonates but why do you see that comment surfacing in replay versus another stage?

Can you explain compartmentalizing a bit more. I've seen that he reveals more to me than others, but don't know how else I may be seeing compartmentalized behavior to better understand why compartmentalizing behavior is used. Can you help?

For H to go from not able to be in same room with me to now willingly spending hours with me before he needs to escape must mean there has been a shift? Perhaps movement through the tunnel. Can you help me distinguish between escaping and withdrawal behavior.

Certainly am not looking to pressure him. Question about this comment and pressure: "Of course, all these efforts are running from themselves. Building internal pressures. One of the most common types of MLCer is the boomerang type. They run off when their pressures get to much, and return/fly back when they cool down." Where/who/what/is this said pressure? I imagine it goes hand in hand with the hanging out for hours before he escapes....but pressure? Self-inflicted? real? what is that pressure about?

Your comment: "LBS has been manipulating the crisis person’s path, the LBS will have lots of regret and remorse and guilt and such. You don’t want or need that kind of responsibility for H’s life and choices." Not intended for sure. Is me speeding it along the concern? the manipulation? And, how?

Your comment: "H will not listen to you. Most MLCers are bogged down in denial. Remember, long ago, unrealized traumas. Their minds have denied their pain for decades! They have full denial in the face of consuming pain and torment. It takes much time for them to very slowly acknowledge this and slowly awaken to it. As such, they will fight against you and your wise counsel, thus prolonging, or stalling, their crisis. Best to let go." H really seems to listen to me...but it's like I speak a foreign language. My logic doesn't seem to resonate with him nor drive movement. In my mind I interpret that my comments are heard but confusing to him. Agree?

Would conversations about his childhood be helpful and/or insightful?

Mother's Day is around the corner and H's mom passed (likely set off the crisis on some level). H is in crisis and down. We agree. Leaving H alone on mother's day to cry seems cruel. Do I invite H to join fam for a breakfast? I know H isn't my mom but I don't know that I should leave H in deep-er depression. Thoughts?

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

My understanding is that depression carries throughout all of MLC. I've definitely heard H out loud say, "I just want to feel happy. I'm looking to be happy in any moment rather than creating happiness." So, to start, the comment resonates but why do you see that comment surfacing in replay versus another stage?

“I'm looking to be happy in any moment rather than creating happiness.” This hits the nail right on its head. H is looking to be happy. That comes from external sources. MLCers flit and ping-pong about from one thing to another trying all manner of activity in a futile attempt to try to find something to make them happy.

Of course, the world is a big shinny place. There is lots and lots of stuff to do to take one’s mind off of their problems. Heck, there are huge businesses built upon that.

Creating happiness is an internal pursuit and endeavour. Being at peace and content and grateful with what you have. Working towards meaning and fulfillment in all things - relationships, work, play, etc. This doesn’t stop pursuit of materialistic things , just the effort towards better is now focused or directed with self betterment rather than just trying to feel better.

Are you running from something or to something?

A person in crisis is running from their pain. That’s their reason. They are not running towards something.

The LBS, we tend to not run from things. A good response, IMHO. It’s ok. Standing still is still moving forward. Nothing wrong with being still until one knows that which they wish to head towards.

Such a comment as from H is within the replay/running stage; it’s its definition. The latter stages: Acceptance, one has traversed their path, accepted their demons, and found peace. They are not looking for happiness in all the wrong places.

In depression and withdrawal, the MLCer has let go of their pursuit of happiness. Their external efforts to fix their unrealized internal problem have all failed and turned to ash. They slide into the abyss and dark depression, sinking from the world around them. It’s here they truly start and come fade to face with their inner demons. Some run back into replay, and some dig in and persevere. The latter group is not trying to quash their inner pain with external fun times. They are growing up, realizing life is not always all fun and games. It’s also full of responsibilities, duties, repercussions for one’s actions, and so on. They see their path and blame themselves, which is quite a lot to find peace with.

Can you explain compartmentalizing a bit more. I've seen that he reveals more to me than others, but don't know how else I may be seeing compartmentalized behavior to better understand why compartmentalizing behavior is used. Can you help?

We all compartmentalize to a certain extent. Consider, the kids are fighting while you are getting them off to school. You finally get them out the door and head off to work. You don’t bring all that stress to work, you leave it at the door. (Mostly. Hopefully.) Same for bring work home. Two compartments. A work / life balance.

The best success of that comes when one can find, or more accurately, create self peace within each/all aspects of their lives. It’s creating self peace rather than finding it. Most things in life are out of one’s direct control. Yet, one can create peace with that, craft and direct how they respond to such stresses and situations. Oddly, the better you get at it, the less you actually leave at the door.

A MLCer has unknowingly buried, compartmentalizing, denied, their long ago pains. As they start getting closer and closer to bomb drop, their compartments start to fail. Far too much pressures to hold back. Bomb drop is a huge pressure release.

Further pressure releases occur as their compartments fill, build, and fail again and again. They aren’t digging in and doing their work, they are running from, trying to quash their pain with external things. (Spoiler alert, it doesn’t work. Of course, telling them doesn’t work either. It’s a life lesson they need to learn pretty much on their own.)

Compartmentalizing, wearing a mask, the MLCer hides their pain. From the world. From themselves. Until their walls crash and their mask falls. The usual response is then lashing out at their perceived object of blame (spouse, kids, whoever). And with said pressure released, going back to their now new norm. Masks and all.

Wearing a mask is tiresome. Maybe I just got old ; I don’t put on a fake face. Really got no time for that. lol.

For H to go from not able to be in same room with me to now willingly spending hours with me before he needs to escape must mean there has been a shift? Perhaps movement through the tunnel. Can you help me distinguish between escaping and withdrawal behavior.

Hopefully, escaping and withdrawal behaviours were somewhat illuminated from the above discussion.

Yes, H seems to have progressed. True, he can now be in the same room as you for extended times when before he could not. However, his reasons are his own. The why of his change is hidden, maybe even from himself. And he could revert back.

Don’t read too much into things. Looking for crumbs. It takes long term consistent demonstrated behaviour before you should even start to consider H’s better behaviours are becoming permanent. It’s perfect fine to hope, just keep your expectations really low.

Where/who/what/is this said pressure? I imagine it goes hand in hand with the hanging out for hours before he escapes....but pressure? Self-inflicted? real? what is that pressure about?

H’s pressure is real. To him. He feels it. Therefore, it is real.

As for its source. All of the above. Everything is pressure for one so consumed by depression.

Some is self inflicted, running away from one’s problems doesn’t solve or lessen them, and lead to even more problems. Work, family, kids, spouse, the clerk at the grocery store, all can be pressure to a person in crisis.

H is on an emotional runaway train. His emotions get triggered and reinforced by all kinds of stimulus. Some external, some internal. He cannot handle his feelings, which is pressure to him.

The LBS, we go through grief and depression as well. I remember, birthdays being difficult. Heck getting out of bed, brushing my teeth, was difficult. So much pressure to not just stay curled up under the blankets.

For a MLCer, that is increased multifold.

Your comment: "LBS has been manipulating the crisis person’s path, the LBS will have lots of regret and remorse and guilt and such. You don’t want or need that kind of responsibility for H’s life and choices." Not intended for sure. Is me speeding it along the concern? the manipulation? And, how?

It’s more a caution.

Let’s use my situation as an example. My W left and lived with OM. Say I called her everyday. Pleading, begging, telling her how wrong I was, to just come back, and so on. And she pulled away and ceases all communication for years. Is that on me? I’d likely place the blame for it squarely on my shoulders as a consequence for my interference and actions.

As it is, XW did leave and hasn’t spoke to me in years. I let her go and left her to her path and choices. Now, did my absence and lack of pleading push her away? Maybe. Although that’s a lot less likely. Pushing away requires some manner of force. Letting go is the opposite of trying to forcefully control the situation or someone. I’ve no guilt or remorse on my behaviour. I’ve not manipulated her nor her path.

H really seems to listen to me...but it's like I speak a foreign language. My logic doesn't seem to resonate with him nor drive movement. In my mind I interpret that my comments are heard but confusing to him. Agree?

I agree. H is driven, living, emotionally. Emotions are not of the realm of intellect, logic, reason, and language. It’s really hard to put emotions into words. If it were easy, poets would be out of work.

H’s current lexicon is foreign. Even to him.

Would conversations about his childhood be helpful and/or insightful?

Likely. Though not with you. You are the wife. Not his safe therapist, or parent, etc.

If H brings it up, you can certainly listen and validate. However, I’d not probe too much. Let H find his way at his speed. You want him to work fully through his problems. Otherwise H will repeat his crisis. And the second time around is far worse.

Mother's Day is around the corner and H's mom passed (likely set off the crisis on some level). H is in crisis and down. We agree. Leaving H alone on mother's day to cry seems cruel. Do I invite H to join fam for a breakfast? I know H isn't my mom but I don't know that I should leave H in deep-er depression. Thoughts?

I agree, the passing of H’s mom is a likely possible trigger for his crisis.

I’d not purposefully invite H over for Mother’s Day. That’s not cruel. H needs to cry over his loss. It may just do a lot of good to allow him to feel, and yes suffer. It is very rare that people change until they’ve hit rock bottom. H needs to hit rock bottom, before he is going to climb back out. That, at its core is compassion, and it takes a certain amount of indifference to allow someone their journey.

If H asks to come over, I’d agree to have him over. Same if he asked you to join him to go see his Mom’s grave.

Hope that helps.

D

[MamaG]

H has an avoidant dismissive relationship style. I hadn't evaluated him before in this way but understand that this stems from childhood upbringing too. This style fosters independence and therefore, H feels safe when distant; H doesn't want to be depended upon (by me & others); H has fear of rejection or dependence; H desires closeness while experiencing emotional turmoil. These also seem to be characteristics of MLC. Is he in MLC or does this style bring out/highlight the many fitting MLC traits (coincidentally)? Is it a recipe for disaster to be in MLC with this relationship style? Does H have a chance at making more progress?

When H dropped me off after appt on Wednesday, he suggested coming over on Saturday to take care of a water issue that I ordered some parts for. H's suggestion was out of the blue as we were singing and talking in the car. It's nice that he's now suggesting that we get together...even if it's not a 'date' request. H is more comfortable and trusting of me - I can feel it. Even if I can feel this I wonder if H is bored on weekends, is he missing me, something else?

Thanks for weighing in on Mother's Day - I will not invite him as much as it hurts me to think of what kind of day he'll have. But, if rock bottom is what is needed, I need to stop saving him from his hurt. I'm listening.

I'm reading more about divorcebusting and trying to be strong enough to apply what I read. As you can tell, I'm still asking questions that tell me I'm not ready to completely do a 180. It's hard to do - I know you know that all too well. It's hard to hang out with him for several hours at a time, see who I always knew and then have to let go of him for days with no contact. But, I'm doing it. TY for the guidance and thoughts and suggestions.

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

Is he in MLC or does this style bring out/highlight the many fitting MLC traits (coincidentally)?

Or is it both?

In some ways a crisis will spin a person right around. They often will become the exact opposite of who they are or have been. A Sunday school teacher could become wanton/wayward; a frugal person becomes a spendthrift; a caring parent starts to toss their kids aside while they search for their happiness. It’s all quite common script/behaviours for the MLCer. Affairs, being a terrible parent, spending, drinking, drugs, illegal/illicit activities, and such; all commonplace.

In other ways a crisis amplifies a person’s traits. Irresponsibility, avoidance, denying, lying, and so on. Unhealthy “default/underlying” habits and responses are exacerbated by their emotional turmoil.

It’s the chicken/egg or horse/cart; what is the order of things. The seeds of a crisis are planted long ago during their childhood. Those informative years are sadly bent and twisted, and the child gets emotionally stunted. Being so young and without good stable proper mentorship/examples they employ poor immature coping strategies/mechanisms because they simply do not know better. Hiding away, avoiding, lying, denying, whatever it takes to get through their day. It’s the toolbox they grow up with.

So, in a way, a person’s crisis started long ago, was interrupted, and continued/triggered at midlife. To be sure, not all experience a crisis. People have many interactions over their years. Opportunities for one to open up, or seek help. Some fortunate folks do get help, their path intersecting with a caring person or some such. MLCers come from the pool of those who did not have such good fortune; be that from lack of opportunity, or some inherent behaviour, fate, or other factor. However, the seeds were planted by the actions of an authority figure in their young lives.

Is it a recipe for disaster to be in MLC with this relationship style?

MLC is a disaster regardless. You are correct though, the difficulty, progress, problems, behaviours, are linked to the person and just how much running/healing/growing up they have to/need to do.

Does H have a chance at making more progress?

YES! Absolutely!

Everyone has a chance! I firmly believe that.

However, will H explore that chance? What path will he walk? How much damage will he do before he starts to turn around? Will he turn around?

Some crisis folks do so much damage, dig themselves such a hole, they become lost forever. Unable to face what they’ve done. Unable to make repairs to those they’ve hurt so badly. Or unknowing where/how to start to.

Your H seems to be on the positive side of this spectrum. He still reaches back to you, talks to you, suggests time together, suggests activities to do together.

Go slow!! Real slow!

MLC is not a sprint, it’s a marathon.

Dig deep for patience. Remain pressure-free. Focus on you. Let H lead his journey.

At the moment, H’s and your paths are intersecting. This has benefit of him seeing your changes and your life. Live and love your life. Live it! Be the lighthouse - for you!

That’s the big thing about focusing on you. It’s not ignoring H or some such, it’s not ignoring you. You live and keep moving forward and let H catch up.

All that goes hand in hand with not manipulating, letting go, time and space, and giving to God. An avoidant person, such as H, needs time and space. And he will take it, if not given. Realize he is driven to that.

You have the gift of time in all this.

Ah, time. The four letter word. lol.

H needs time to find his path and heal and grow. Time will tell if he can do so. Or when he does so.

Use your time wisely and well. It truly is a gift. One that takes time (giggle) to realize.

I'm reading more about divorcebusting and trying to be strong enough to apply what I read. As you can tell, I'm still asking questions that tell me I'm not ready to completely do a 180.

You are asking very good questions. Everyone requires a certain level of understanding before they can/will let go. Rationalizing and understanding takes time.

From what I read in your posts, you are stronger than you think or feel, IMHO. And you have already done some 180s. Realize 180s are not to turn everything on its head, they are for you. Do only 180s that serve you. Some folks have plenty and some have few. Sincere 180s are for you, and have the added benefit of maybe causing one’s spouse to take notice and perhaps pique their interest.

In my experience, finding answers to questions leads to more questions. Questions are the doorway to understanding. Having lots of questions shows a thirsty and inquisitive mind, not a lack of readiness. Mull over what you’ve discovered; consider the new questions that this knowledge and understanding brings up. It’s all part of moving forward.

Have a great weekend.

D

[MamaG]

I read your responses several times and each time, I get something new out of it. I'm not questioning you and your experience, but rather whether MLC really is real. And, how can this be?
It's surreal to have a perfectly sane man became a stranger who leaves an entire well-established family and life behind. Just somebody wake me up from this nightmare. I digress.

When I re-read this comment this morning, I started thinking about me and the path I'm taking. For once, I'm thinking, "enough about him". This is the comment you made, "Of course, the world is a big shinny place. There is lots and lots of stuff to do to take one’s mind off of their problems. Heck, there are huge businesses built upon that. Creating happiness is an internal pursuit and endeavour. Being at peace and content and grateful with what you have. Working towards meaning and fulfillment in all things - relationships, work, play, etc.". I wonder if I'm doing some running myself. I distract myself to the extent I can, but don't find myself reflecting on what worked/didn't work in our marriage. Not that I'm looking to own his crisis, but I certainly should and can own my repsonses/actions over the last 32 years that may have reinforced his crisis. When I find myself alone with my thoughts, I consume the hours with readings on DB, Hero Spouse, etc. instead of understanding my tears and frustrations. How do I own up to my end of healing? What questions can I think through why I cry?

In conversation with my doc at an appt, I mentioned that I was going away for a few days in early May. He was there and still hasn't asked anything about the trip. Doesn't know with who I'm traveling? business or pleasure? etc. I've avoided telling him with hopes he'd ask. Nope. I also know that he's been avoiding her calls and texts for months - Why? Doesn't want to tell the story? Feeling ashamed or otherwise? Should I tell him that I'm going to visit with his aunt? Should I tell him that I'm flying across the country? Do I owe him that much?

Appointments are behind us for a while so we'll see how much of a boomerang he really is in the next week or two. Stay tuned.

For the first time, I felt 'time travel' yesterday. It was subtle. He called me about carpooling to my son's bday dinner. His tone was somewhat upbeat and rushing, as well as that of a friend who was running behind. His words, "I just got home. I'll swing by and pick you up at your house right after I shower." First, his call surprised me. Then his comment stunned me. H sensed it (even over the phone) and asked if that was Ok. I course corrected my reaction and excused myself... that I was just in the middle of something and of course that would be ok. H's words brought me back to when we were dating and didn't live together. I know I've heard that line before and with that excitement/stress/tone. I immediately attributed it to him regressing to teenage years. Is that how you see time travel?

H's admiration and love for his kids was so obvious. I could see it in H's eyes when H talked with them and when he closed his eyes through the hug hello/good-bye. Maybe I'm reading into things but this is certainly nice in comparison with H's comments shortly after BD#2 where he told them that H is prepared to lose them in the divorce bc H needs to look out for himself. Yes, they were very hurt. And, also refreshing to the confusing texts he would send them, "Today is going to be a better day." I know I've read that the dogs, kids, spouse, marriage are the last ones H will return to (and in that order). Could H be coming around and on the back half of the crisis? Do I have the order right?

And lastly, how possible is it that H's EA is a guy-friend whom he considers a brother? H talks and texts with him daily and has since BD#1. They grew up together, work together, hang out with their weed.... To my knowledge, he still has no other EA nor PA going on. I don't have it in me to snoop so I may never know either. How common or likely is it that his EA is a good friend?