H EW possibly DBing and I’m losing the battle

[grok]

Hi Kanga,

Not guidance, but an aside. Pipe Organ? Playing? Sounds fun! How did this come about? I had some connection to one in high school and some of college. Google: pacific union college pipe organ and view some of the youtube videos. Then consider almost all the internals are manual/mechanical.

That giant array of huge to tiny pipes all working together to create a symphony of musical emotion was quite the experience.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning Kanga

A pipe organ. Cool!

I’m glad you popped back in. I was wondering how things were going with you.

So a couple of months, starting around Christmas and New Year’s, of living together full time. Then, the second car is fixed, and back to the previous living arrangements. H decides to put his house on the market; which would indicate his is planning on you and he living together full time.

Somewhere during this, XW comes back into the picture. Even barging into your house, without asking, like she owns the place.

A couple of clarifying questions of residence ownership. (For now I’ll refer to H’s primary residence as H’s house, and similarly for you.) Are the two houses jointly owned by you and H? Or is H’s house joint between him and XW, or just his? Is your house solely owned by you?

Just wondering how convoluted the financial situation is. It sounds like you are not on H’s house and he has a mortgage. And he is stressed relating to his financial obligations. Any mortgage on your house, or do you own it outright?

XW’s barging in. No way! I’d be putting a stop to that behaviour!

I get how she has wormed her way, or whatever, to still come and go to the old family house. With his kids all moved out, her reasons for such are gone. Still, a weird arrangement H let go on far too long.

Your house. Your rules. XW stays away. Her popping up in H’s life all the time needs to be addressed and resolved before I’d let H move in. IMHO.

I don’t initiate anything with H as much as I did, although, I think this is creeping back to old behaviours for me given his behaviour at the moment. H does most of the calling when we are apart. I try to be upbeat, dress well. I don’t get involved with SIL about our problems and stay away from FIL and StepMIL. I don’t talk about XW at all.

Good. Get back to DB. And be firmly unwavering on your boundaries.

I agree with not involving the in-laws. H’s (and XW’s) behaviour has been going on long term. There are dynamics and unhealthy enabling that has, and is, occurring methinks.

I’m scared of becoming obsessed with H’s contact with his XW again because of his recent behaviour. I do not trust her one bit and I’m believing half of what he says.

Believe nothing he says, and only half of what he does. Let H’s actions demonstrate his intentions and direction. And ensure long term consistent demonstrated behaviour before you two move in together.

Six months, or a year, of consistent behaviour. No XW interference. No weird wild suspected cake eating. H needs to earn your trust, by demonstrating his trustworthiness. By being open and honest. And if he and XW get together inappropriately, the clock resets. Rock solid consequences are needed my dear.

As I write, I just text H to say I appreciate him telling me his contact with her. I haven’t asked him about her since last year as he has been setting such amazing boundaries. H is a cake eater though and I’m wondering whether he is now cake eating with wanting to not sell his house and live over here and keep his old life which is tied up with her with his house?

Like I said, I somewhat get how/why H and XW were closer while the kids were younger and living in his house. That reason is no more, kids moved out. Their relationship should just be a coparenting relationship, and that is now more financial guidance and security net, than day to day involvement and putting food on the table.

The last 4 weeks, H has been irritable, distant and picking fights again. All the hallmarks of reconnecting with XW behind my back. As we speak, I’m just in the process of asking him if he is speaking to XW behind my back again as his behaviour changes purely for this reason. I haven’t seen H for 6 days. He picked a fight and drove home the next day from my place. I set a hefty boundary and he didn’t like it and fumed home. Funnily, he spoke with XW tonight, but tells me this is the first time in a long time. He assured me during counselling that he was going to be transparent.

Look to his actions. Not his words.

There is hope for our M because I saw it for 3 whole months and it was wonderful. Where to now? I would love some guidance from anyone who wishes to chime in again and give me some encouragement.

Yes, there is hope.

And yes, there was three months of apparent good times. Then something happened behind the scenes with H. And H reverted to irritable and looking to fight again. (Boundaries! Let H slam against them. He stay out of the house when he’s like that!)

H was good for three months. Now make it a year H, and I’ll consider us getting back together and living together. If such a thought / statement seems like H would balk, why? If he is recommitting to the marriage he should have no problem with it. After all, that would be exactly what he is supposedly after.

Be firm. Remain kind. Give H time and space. H has stuff to sort out it seems. He is still baking.

Go back to you and your life. Focus on you and playing that pipe organ.

Have a great weekend.

D

[KangaB]

Hi DnJ,

I’m going to back re-read what you’ve wrote and thank you for replying. It’s now been 16 days since I’ve seen H. I’ve done some terrible begging and pleading in the last few days and have contacted our local Pastor who helped us and another counsellor who is helping us. I have reacted to everything he is throwing at me. I’m actually wondering if he has undiagnosed, untreated Bipolar? Looking back on our relationship, there is a pattern, the same one that has just played out again. I was looking back through my diaries and usually H picks a fight and it could be that he doesn’t like what I’m wearing or in the last instance, I turned away from showing a photo to him for 3 seconds. H stormed off and he left the house. My boundary was that he wasn’t allowed back in until he apologised which he didn’t, he just went home. Since then, (following from my last post), H has been in contact with XW a few times, one time he told me about and the other I checked the phone records. I know, I know!!! I did politely ask him about his calls and he refused to tell me only that it was about their daughter and that he would tell me another time. He has never done that before. I reacted so badly and took the bait. Through text messages I explained to him why I was upset, that he had promised to be transparent to the counsellor as I was to trust him. H also told both counsellor that I had kicked him out of the house. H is lying, gaslighting, stonewalling—it’s awful!!! I’m sure there is a pattern of Bipolar. H becomes irritable, extremely energetic, flirtatious, pushes me away, spends money like it’s out of fashion, reconnects with XW and then depression hits and he is remorseful for everything. You couldn’t meet a nicer man when he is remorseful.

I’m so upset with myself for not doing the things I need to be doing with my 180’s and DBing. I was really thrown by this latest behaviour because we had lived together for 3 months and it was the best time. I have reacted so badly. He hasn’t made any effort to communicate only that I need to apologise to him for vile and spit he calls it, that I made about him and is XW communicating. The bottom line is that H has pushed me away again and his XW has something to do with it.

DnJ… to answer about the house situation. I own my house and land. XW is still on the title and mortgage of his. We all want that to change. XW claims she hates his house and wants nothing to do with it, other than barging in whenever she wants to. And to clarify SD was staying the weekend which is why XW barged in. She wouldn’t do that if the kids weren’t at H’s place.

I just can’t believe, I have begged and pleaded for him to contact me and to reconnect when he is being such an arse. I did actually apologise for keeping him out of the house when he was being so nasty. He in fact left the house and then wanted to come back in at 2am and demanded to be let in because he had no gas to get home. He was so rude, I just couldn’t let him in and he was angry.

Our plan since I thought we might have been piecing (how naive of me), is to sell the house and H moves across to me as a form of semi-retirement for him. However, I did notice that the plans on his side were wavering, where he was unsure about coming across and living with me, only a few weeks before him picking a fight.

As I said, I will re-read what DnJ has written. Sage advice. I’m extremely sad and lost. It’s coming up Easter and we have always spent Easter together for 9 years. I just can’t believe I’m here again not having a M and feeling like I’m up against XW.

Does anyone have any thoughts about Bipolar and M problems like this. Does it make any difference to course of action when it comes to doing 180’s and DBing?

Kanga

[KangaB]

Hi Grok,

Yes amazing instrument and I’m having a Spiritual experience with it. I’m not sure if that’s the same for those who live in the same street as the church or people working in the church!!! I was very fortunate to be considered trustworthy enough with this magnificent instrument which has about 60 pipes. I’m not sure what make it is or anything like that. I’m just having a go. I’ve been watching lots of YouTubes on professionals playing and demonstrating.

All of this came about because I took an in-law and H to a recital where the Pipe Organ was playing and fell in love with Widor Toccata in F maj. I also volunteer at the church where I play this organ and asked the committee if they would take me on. Anyhow… thanks for asking. Will check your recommendation and thank you for chiming in.

And yes it is very cool as DnJ put it. I had the full support from H to play it and now he has said he doesn’t like me playing because he doesn’t think it’s cool. What the hell goes on in people’s minds to be so inconsistent? It does my head in.

I was so hoping that when H and I were together over the last 3 months that I could prove you all wrong here. What a fool I am.

Btw the Grok, I have never chimed in on other’s posts because I really don’t have any advice to give away yet. I do hope your sitch will get better and you will be at peace with it. Someday when I get the hang of this, I won’t be so absorbed with my stuff and contribute to other’s posts.

Kanga

[Valeska19]

Does anyone have any thoughts about Bipolar and M problems like this. Does it make any difference to course of action when it comes to doing 180’s and DBing?

It is common for folks to ask themselves questions like this. To seek the ultimate answer to "why they behave the way they do". Let that need for an answer go. Shift the focus back to you. The answer doesn't matter. What matters is treatment you allow in your life.

Kanga - there is no doubt that you have encounter a large emotional hit by your H. For that - I am sorry. It's a devastating feeling thinking something has changed and then feeling you have hit square 1.

From the bleacher seats - it seems like struggle to set boundaries for yourself and the boundaries you do set are form of control versus a protection of your heart. This make sense as your H is quite the boundary pusher and has likely been used to "having his way" for a long time in your marriage.
It also seems like you are willing to push the boundaries you have set for yourself. This is just gonna lead to long term suffering for a very short term game.

I just can’t believe, I have begged and pleaded for him to contact me and to reconnect when he is being such an arse. I did actually apologise for keeping him out of the house when he was being so nasty. He in fact left the house and then wanted to come back in at 2am and demanded to be let in because he had no gas to get home. He was so rude, I just couldn’t let him in and he was angry.

Why did YOU apologize? Can you see how badly your H has manipulated the situation that you believe it's your fault. Stop that. He's an adult. He wants to act like an a$$ - he has his own home to go to.

As I said, I will re-read what DnJ has written. Sage advice. I’m extremely sad and lost. It’s coming up Easter and we have always spent Easter together for 9 years. I just can’t believe I’m here again not having a M and feeling like I’m up against XW.

You are not up against your XW. Yes - she is difficult but she is NOT the problem. Your H's ability to cut the cord with her is. Keep your focus there. And don't let her into her house. Your H may allow her to push him around - but not you.

Our plan since I thought we might have been piecing (how naive of me), is to sell the house and H moves across to me as a form of semi-retirement for him. However, I did notice that the plans on his side were wavering, where he was unsure about coming across and living with me, only a few weeks before him picking a fight..

There should be at least 6 months of changed behavior and you should be able to clearly feel the difference. It does seem like you provided a solution to him for awhile versus him making a decision to come back into the relationship?

You will KNOW when he has changed. You won't have to guess. You will know on if he has finally cut off his relationship with his XW. You will know when he's done being a man child and owns up to his part... but that won't happen until after his thrown his fits, gaslight you, manipulated you, and any other behavior he has always done and your response is strong and unwavering.

And I will end with this. You can't expect people to treat you a way you aren't willing to treat yourself. You can't expect your H to respect you - if you don't respect yourself. So start with you respecting yourself and then expand to others.

You have to care about your well-being more than your marriage. Sometimes when you do this - the WAS wakes up and decides to come along for the ride. But either way - you deserve a life of peace and love... and that is a happy ending only YOU can provide.

(((K)))

[grok]

I’m just having a go. I’ve been watching lots of YouTubes on professionals playing and demonstrating.

This is awesome! Because it is you. Because you want to.

What the hell goes on in people’s minds to be so inconsistent? It does my head in.

I think most people here over the years would say the same. You look for logic and understanding. So do I. Over the last year I keep reviewing the threads saying stop it, those is the wrong questions to ask and eventually those won't matter so much. I remain a work in progress.

I was so hoping that when H and I were together over the last 3 months that I could prove you all wrong here. What a fool I am.

No, not a fool. We wouldn't be here otherwise and the future is unwritten no matter what the probabilities. I mean, how likely did we think our W or H would do what they did?

I have been contemplating hope vs expectations for a year now. My WW told my D18 and D17 "I have to make sure G has no hope" outright the first night she asked for a separation. And then became very cold overnight. She stayed that way for over two months to keep herself on her course. (A funny aside, I could tell when she let go the tight coldness a little, relaxed a little, because she stopped wearing a bra with her PJs at night) She carefully asked once, around month four, did I still have hope, had I given it up? I thought a moment and said, "No, it is that I don't have expectations." I think she took is as I didn't have expectations of an outcome. I also meant I was letting go of expectations of her personally. I didn't clarify. Maybe I should have. I don't know.

I keep this and several others on tap to re-read for myself periodically. It's all worth a read to keep centered.

In conclusion, if you are seeing signs that your spouse wants to return, post all about it here. Get it out of your system. Overreact on these forums. Tell us how it's going to work out after all, that we were wrong, that YOU KNEW your WAS, you KNEW they would fall back into your arms, that you think you are in piecing, etc, etc, etc. But please, for all that is good and holy, stay detached from them outwardly and give them time to see if they actually recommit, show true remorse, and prove it to you with consistent behavior over time. Keeping DBing and may you make it to the other side, whatever lies ahead.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2772942

Btw the Grok, I have never chimed in on other’s posts because I really don’t have any advice to give away yet.

Me either. And I'm in it, just like you.

Smarts I have. Wisdom I'm not so sure of or I wouldn't be here in this Grief. W and I have ~140+ IQ which helps many things... but not this. Smarts brings it's own set of issues - decision paralysis, not being able to figure out the right level of communication (you are either condecending or no one understands what you just said), W told me I was too sweetly logical so she stopped trying to tell me she was unhappy, etc...

But stepping out of my comfort zone I can post to say I see you K, I hear you K. I can show some of the inner me.

g