Wife in crisis

[jessieht]

Sorry you found yourself here. All I can say is buckle up and dont think there is anything they are incapable of doing. I wish you the best of luck on healing you and then the marriage. I got the "DR" book". I read it and it helps to calm my brain from the craziness.

[Lb23]

I am really grateful for your perspectives - this is helping me a lot. I had taken to speaking to my family a lot but it kind of feels like a validation exercise for myself. So I have consciously cut down from speaking about my struggles with my relationship.

I have seen some change in her in the last two weeks in doing more again in the household. Although she is still a big up and down emotionally. I hear you guys on the goals that I had shared and will revisit those to leave more time; I suspect that she may actually want to come along to my family over Easter as she does want to get out of the UK for a bit, and wants to be with the kids.

Living in a logistically a bit more challenging area, I have taken to doing sports in the evenings. I think I will try to go out once or twice a month again and do things for myself. Some travelling to meet my friends would be nice; I have noticed that a lot of my friendships have gone dormant or gotten lost and her blowing up the marriage showed me that I had put myself in a bit of an odd position. Away from most of my friends and family, so need to rebuild life here.

DnJ, I am so sorry to read your story. This must have been such an emotional journey to go through - despite sensing a lot of growth behind what you write. One of the interesting things that you wrote is about MLCers not following through on things. I think she really struggles with this, and this has been a part of her life even before we met. She is very talented and smart, but somehow things never quite worked out for her; or she shifted tacks to a completely different path.

The physical space bit is the hard part in our situation. I am trying to manage our funds so that she can go away on her own every 6-8 weeks which may give her some of that. It is hard knowing what is right or not, so I am trying to keep out of her "headspace" when we are both home and not be the first to engage.

I wonder what may snap her out again of her crisis. From reading whatever I could find about this, it sounds like she will need to walk her path. Which may mean that she does not find back to a more sensible mindset where she is able to look at certain parts of her life with a more rational eye.

In all of this, she keeps making longer term plans what to do to the house, where the kids will go to school etc. And then the next moment I get to hear something that makes me think if she had a sip from the coo coo tree. It is such an odd experience...

[Lb23]

Removed reference to another business site name and book suggestion.

[Lb23]

Bit of an odd day again - she is better after having been pretty ill. I have a bad cold myself but had to do all of the childcare over the past 5 days on my own. This morning she had some friends over and then went back to withdrawing from childcare. Granted they were difficult, but statements like "I dont want to do this" and swearing is not on in front of the kids.

She is frustrated that she is not making any progress regarding work; old contacts not responding to her and she is lost about what to do. Miffed about something that another former colleague did. Says that why bother doing anything. Talked about wanting a different life again. Whatever that means.

I stayed neutral and validating, which I have gotten better at. She does seek to talk to me a lot, but remains emotionally quite distant.

I was a bit surprised this evening by her not doing anything despite knowing that I am ill. The kitchen needed cleaning, the living room looks like a bomb went off and both kids were awake and demanding. She retreated to her room and was reading. She did more in the past two weeks before she got ill, it would be nice if she does not fall back into that habit.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Lb

The physical space bit is the hard part in our situation. I am trying to manage our funds so that she can go away on her own every 6-8 weeks which may give her some of that.

I’d suggest to ease up on trying to fix or solve her. She’s a woman of early 40s. If she wishes to go away every 6-8 weeks, she can arrange her logistics and funding.

Remember, depression is ever present. She may not want to go away. And then she will. Ping ponging back and forth is exceedingly common. Let her do whatever heavy lifting is required for her path. Besides, if things go awry with a trip, and you are involved, who do you think is going to get blamed?

Focus on you and the kids.

I wonder what may snap her out again of her crisis. From reading whatever I could find about this, it sounds like she will need to walk her path. Which may mean that she does not find back to a more sensible mindset where she is able to look at certain parts of her life with a more rational eye.

Snapping out of a crisis and healing, is very very rare. Usually such an abrupt about-face would signify they did not deal with their traumas. In which case, a return to a crisis would be very likely. And a crisis is much worse the next going around. Slow steady progress is the best path towards exiting a crisis successfully.

A crisis was slowly entered and it is slowly exited. It takes 18-24 months for one to enter their crisis. This is a silent descent. Mostly no one, not even themselves, will realize the slow progression towards the abyss. Looking back you now likely can see some signs and behavioural changes in W. Wee clues and such that at the time you just didn’t recognize. Perfectly normal, as most of us had nothing to do with a crisis before now.

The exit is just a slow. Lots of withdrawal, lots of dark depression and brooding, before their find acceptance of their past and the deeds they’ve done.

However, before the exit, is the heart of the crisis - running. This running is the longest of the stages. Most MLCers do run their course, eventually exiting. Although some do indeed get very lost and run for a long time.

She does seek to talk to me a lot, but remains emotionally quite distant.

Yes, her emotions are cranked to eleven. She simply does not have the bandwidth for you or anyone or anything, else.

Do not try to bridge that apparent emotional gap. That will be perceived as pressure, and MLCers run from pressure. Besides, that emotional buffer is a good thing. Most are very angry and blame the LBS. Remain kind and cordial.

In all of this, she keeps making longer term plans what to do to the house, where the kids will go to school etc. And then the next moment I get to hear something that makes me think if she had a sip from the coo coo tree. It is such an odd experience...

Welcome to the club. Definitely an odd experience. Like I said, confusion is one of the major hallmarks of a crisis.

Before my experiences, I had the default humorous Hollywood version of a midlife crisis - guy buys red Ferrari and gets new girlfriend. The truth of a crisis is not wildly known or understood or believed. A crisis is truly a horrible thing.

Within all this, is a golden opportunity for you. Embrace it. Become.

D

[Lb23]

Thank you for this DnJ. It is a kafkaesque experience for me and I realise how much I have to learn.

I have worked hard to let go. However, there is a lot of hurt that will take me time to get over. No matter what I do, there are things where I am being pushed into living a life that I do not want to live. Which I will need to think about if there is ever any reconciliation - I read MrP's thread and it struck me that there is an element of where I am asking myself if I do want to be with someone with these behaviours.

The time element is an interesting reflection. I realised that she was unhappy for a long time. I thought that she would be happier coming back to the UK. Which she might be, or not. Reflecting on my children and the fact that I do really care for her (despite the above), I have resolved to give this time. Recognising that it may take long and get worse - which is something that I am still getting my head around.

I need to still get more out of the mindset of doing things / thinking of things that "fix" her as you put it. I have started detaching more, but this is something not natural to me as I am a kind person. However, I am getting around to the concept of doing things that seem unnatural to me.

Thank you for the advice and insights. It is helping a lot.

[Lb23]

Over the past 6 weeks, I have been in the "letting go" mode. I am cordial but brief; do not engage in extensive conversation; and validate her while not engaging her when she brings up our relationship or goes on a tangent about wanting to move out etc.

She does come and talk to me and seek my view or advice on various things. We have long conversations on a regular basis, but I have now started withdrawing from that as well reflecting on some of the other threads that I have been reading. However, I would like to ask you guys for your opinion on this. How far should I go in detaching and not engaging her? I am looking to not be constantly available for her as I am no longer the supporting pillar that I have been. Where is a good balance in still speaking, as it is a bit odd sitting at the dinner table and not having a conversation.

For the time being, she seems content to be on her own, apart from the occasional descent into misery when she reflects on her situation. Over the week-end, she had another rant about wanting to have a different life and to get away from the house. The next day she was talking about getting someone to built bookshelves for her to be able to take her books out of boxes where they are still stored.

Mostly we are at a cordial level, and she has even asked how I am a couple of times last week. I do still pick up most of the childcare (just got back from my inlaws where I have taken to staying with both kids one night a week to free her up). She has started to do a bit more around the house again but the balance is still with me. I have read conflicting opinions around this - there are some perspectives that it makes sense for one of the spouses to pick up more for a while, others are quite strict in terms of holding the one in crisis to account as well and getting them to do their share. What do you guys think is the right balance here?

DnJ, I am interested in your perspective from how "kind and cordial" in this context.

I am still trying to figure out how to reestablish my life. My initial struggle showed me that I had also not been happy with my life for a long time. However, my network of friends and family is in continental Europe and not the UK - and now I am stuck here for the time being. I set myself goals that I have partially turned into action so far. Lots of sport (which helps me being zen and look good), new clothes and styling (still need to be slightly more on it) - that has worked. However, striking up new friendships is not easy; and I am often too tired after work and the kids to have the energy to go out on my own or meet friends in London. I feel like I have fallen into constantly working and not being able to shut off. Which is somethign that I will need to work on.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Lb

No matter what I do, there are things where I am being pushed into living a life that I do not want to live.

Yep.

I too was pushing onto a path I did not choose. A life did not want to lead. Years later, looking back, I’d not give it up.

Have faith and trust the process.

I need to still get more out of the mindset of doing things / thinking of things that "fix" her as you put it. I have started detaching more, but this is something not natural to me as I am a kind person. However, I am getting around to the concept of doing things that seem unnatural to me.

Oh yes, it definitely is counterintuitive, is seemingly non-natural, and goes against our default behaviour. Most significant growth and lesson will do so.

Detachment is when your emotions are no longer uncontrollable dragged around by W’s behaviour, words, and/or actions. You still feel, just not dragged about. You regain control over self. Control is the big part of detachment.

The next step of this part of the journey is indifference. That comes after detachment, and is when your feelings towards W become muted or attenuated. You will feel numb, feel almost nothing towards her, about her, or for any of her actions, words, or behaviours.

This state of indifference is perfectly normal and part of the grief process. And, like all feelings, or the absence thereof, is temporary. Indifference will unwind. Your feelings do return.

I promote a caution for folks when they enter indifference: Nature abhors a vacuum, and other feelings, temptations, etc, will loom larger than they really are, when contrasted against the void. It is an illusion, things are not as they feel. Limit major life decisions based upon such fleeting feelings. Remember, this void is temporary, yet it will feel otherwise.

There is a strange peace, a welcomed peace, being clear from all that noise, cacophony, and confusion from W. While within this numbness, this reprieve from those associative emotions, lay an opportunity to discover you. Your deep beliefs, values, and convictions. Those tenets that make you tick. This is your best time to do your inner work.

Look inside and find you. Your beliefs, bias, prejudice, defaults, and such.

Strengthen that which serves. Craft that which you aspire to. Discard and/or alter that which does not serve.

This cataloging, crafting, and organizing of self and your convictions pays huge dividends. This is one of the golden opportunities that comes from walking this most unwanted and non-chosen path. Most folks never get, or embrace, such an opportunity in their life. Making the most of this hand you’ve be dealt, is totally within your control.

I have started detaching more, but this is something not natural to me as I am a kind person.

A suggestion. Remove the word “but”.

Often this wee word, but, is utilized in justifications for us not doing something or delaying an action which we know we should take. “But” crafts an exception to the rule, a loophole for us. Another problem is, your mind is always listening and will craft your reality as you ask it to.

“But” conjoins two ideas - in this case detachment and your kindness. Such conjoining, crafts belief inside you, which means you believe you have to now be unkind to detach, which makes it much more difficult to achieve. Use a period instead.

I have started detaching more. I find detachment something not natural to me. It seems to go against me being a kind person.

Separate things. Can be dealt with separately.

- Good for you detaching more.

- Yes, detachment is something we have little experience with. Especially with an event so large and disruptive to our lives.

- Detachment, and indifference, come easier to those with a kind and compassionate heart. It is highly counterintuitive, like how it feels/seems unnatural, as you have not had reason to experience this at such a magnitude. There is a profound kindness and love in letting go.

I have been in the "letting go" mode.

Perfect.

How does that make you feel? Better or bitter? Kindness and compassion. Yes?

I am cordial but brief;

Why “but”?

I am cordial and brief.

You said “but” because of some feeling/belief inside you. Discover why and what that is.

[I] do not engage in extensive conversation; and validate her while not engaging her when she brings up our relationship or goes on a tangent about wanting to move out etc.

Keep it up.

Note. It’s validating her feelings, not her or her behaviour. You validate her feelings, without condoning her less than stellar choices.

How far should I go in detaching and not engaging her?

All the advice is first and foremost for you. It also gives you the best chance for your marriage.

So, the short answer is, detach and limit engaging with her, as much as you need.

I am looking to not be constantly available for her as I am no longer the supporting pillar that I have been. Where is a good balance in still speaking, as it is a bit odd sitting at the dinner table and not having a conversation.

W has fired, or mostly fired you as her emotional support pillar. Let her feel that. She needs to feel that as well, by the way.

Let her mostly lead the conversations. You can certainly initiate a conversation instead of sitting silently. Though, most times a person in crisis needs space. Lots of space. So I’d more just spark up possible conversations with more a statement instead of pressuring questions. Just breaking the silence a bit, just to see if she wants to say anything. A “here you are”, as you place a plate in front of her for example. She may thank you, she may even continue on to some topic. Although, likely there’ll be no thank you and she’ll say nothing. Follow her lead. Her silence is no big deal, have no expectations either way.

For the time being, she seems content to be on her own, apart from the occasional descent into misery when she reflects on her situation. Over the week-end, she had another rant about wanting to have a different life and to get away from the house. The next day she was talking about getting someone to built bookshelves for her to be able to take her books out of boxes where they are still stored.

Mostly we are at a cordial level, and she has even asked how I am a couple of times last week. I do still pick up most of the childcare (just got back from my inlaws where I have taken to staying with both kids one night a week to free her up). She has started to do a bit more around the house again but the balance is still with me. I have read conflicting opinions around this - there are some perspectives that it makes sense for one of the spouses to pick up more for a while, others are quite strict in terms of holding the one in crisis to account as well and getting them to do their share. What do you guys think is the right balance here?

Do whatever is needed for the kids. Always!

And yes, that will likely be a disproportionate share. That’s ok.

As for the household stuff. Do what is required in the common areas. Leave W’s bedroom and her art studio for her. If she takes dishes into her room, leave them. Same for her laundry. She is accountable and responsible for those areas.

If house work gets too much for you. Hire a housekeeper.

A person in crisis is like a teenager. Treat them as such. (Having lived through raising four teens, I now see things differently than I did before. ) You will have little success in making W, or a teen, do anything they don’t want to. You cannot force W to clean up after herself. So, you just close the door to her room and her mess. (I did that so much with my daughter. lol. Perfectly healthy part of growing up.)

DnJ, I am interested in your perspective from how "kind and cordial" in this context.

Treat her like a roommate.

Kind and cordial is for you too. Mostly for you actually. No matter which direction your situation goes, you were kind and polite. That defines, and is defining/crafting you. It’s not being a doormat, you still employ required boundaries for disrespectful behaviour. It’s just being the best version of you.

Like with teenager kids. It does no good to blow your stack and get all mad or whatever. Detachment, with a mix of indifference, is truly a kind and compassionate thing.

No walking on eggshells. Focus on you and the kids. Be kind and cordial, even invite W along for the odd family event. Yet still, letting her be.

I am often too tired after work and the kids to have the energy to go out on my own or meet friends

Be kind to your self too. Make time for you. A housekeeper might alleviate some of your chores/burden.

Hope you and the kids have a wonderful Sunday.

D

[Lb23]

Hello D,

this is helpful to read, thank you. I have been wondering about some numbness that I feel - while also still recognising that this is not what I want for my life. I have a lot of thinking and growing to do in the coming months / couple of years. On the big decisions: I understand what you are saying, and I am staying well clear of those. It will be a while and I need to do a lot of work to figure out where I will take my life from here.

I have started doing more things for myself, doing a lot of exercise and sorting out things in the house that had been left standing around since we moved in. It feels good to see some progress and shaping a space that I do want to live in, as I will still be here for a while.

I keep giving her a lot of space, but also softly establishing some boundaries that she infringed upon initially. In particular, I need to be able to do my work and she has to accept that while we depend solely on my income.

There is a bit that I really struggle with, which will require some addressing in the future. In moving back to the UK, she wanted this house - which I thought would make her happy as it was her dream place. It is not easy to get rid off at close to the price we paid (I would be able to take the loss if we sold at some point. She would not). She also has no income, and I am not sure if/when she will get herself in a position to earn money. And we have our kids to think about. If at some point she does open up to reconciliation, this is something that I do want to address. Her behaviour risked blowing up much more than just leaving. Even if it has (probably) not gone to the extent that others on here have experience to date.

Plan for now is to focus on exercising, establishing more social contacts and doing the occasional thing that interests me. Plus spend lots of time with the kids. I am going to go to Burgundy over my birthday weekend this year with some friends - something to look forward to.

[Lb23]

One more thing of note - my mum is visiting and my wife told her that in everything, the children come first and then herself. This is not quite in line with how much she has withdrawn, but may keep her from engaging in more extreme behaviours.