I find myself in a situation which I would not have dreamed of ever being in. And which I have no idea how to get out of; or which course of action to really take.
This is going to be a somewhat longish write-up, and I would really value some perspectives from the community. In particular, I am looking for advice from some of the women on here that went through a midlife crisis (I believe that my wife is in one), and strategies that may work in supporting her while ensuring that the family does not suffer. I will write a brief background and am happy to expand on this.
Background
We started dating in 2012, with her always having been an independent and lively spirit. She could light up the room that she walked in, which drew me to her initially. Even back then, she hinted at issues with her parents as well as having done a lot to build herself up for a career, yet always just missing the opportunity to get to the level where she felt she should be. She was also quite clear that she did not want to be a mother and would want a nanny to support. I had always looked for an equal partner rather than someone who would take a step back, and thought that we would get support if we economically could.
We moved to her home country in 2013 and had our son in 2016. After having stayed home for a while, she took up a job again. Yet given my work, she did the drop-offs and pick-ups from nursery more often than me. At the age of two, our drama started with our son turning out to be severely epileptic - a hugely traumatic journey for both of us, with the fits luckily becoming under control after about a year. However, our son remained on heavy antiepileptics and she did not work for an extended period (I was so terrified that I slept in his room for 18 months and took a long time to move out).
While the fits stopped, our son (whom we had thought "normal" until then) completely shut down, could no longer speak, concentrate or give his attention. At the same time, my wife got pregnant with our daughter, who was born in early 2020. By this time, we understood that our son was on the autism spectrum (and has other issues), which led to her stopping work again after having restarted. During the pandemic, we moved to my home country for a while, where we lived well (we had agreed to not look at the money). However, she felt very isolated being an extrovert forced to live at a distance during the pandemic. She tried several times to set up different business ideas over the years, but never followed through. Something her parents tell me characterises her life - being full of energy and ideas, but somehow not being able to then stick to something and see it through. Which she sees differently, but there is something to this.
Post the pandemic, we moved back to London for schooling reasons - while she was initially pushing for it, she broke down in tears and had second thoughts towards the d-date. When I then took a stand and said we are going to do it. After having tried to buy a lot of properties (including in my country), we then bought a period property outside London. Her dream house in terms of the type of property, but not in an ideal location for her given her need for stimulus (e.g. theatre, art); and logistically turning out to be difficult. It is, however, a house which is difficult to sell for even close to the price that we paid. Which highlights that she has stepped out of reality.
Over the past 12 months, we had increasing friction - more fighting, and she had moved to sleep in a different room. Which I did not put much attention on, as she did not like our matress and we had slept apart for extended periods because of our kids in anyway. She had her own studio in the house to do art, and I did step up my efforts significantly to take on a lot of childcare (I have always done a good amount, but friends and family started telling me that I am like a working mum). During our summer holidays, one of my friends whom she had spoken to told me to be careful with my relationship - I discarded this but I should have listened.
D-day
One evening after having put the kids to bed, I went down and found her sitting in the front livingroom. I asked her if she had some time for me, wanting to have sex. We had a row during which she told asked me something she had asked me before "what do you actually want from life, what do you want to do with yourself" - which I had not taken as a serious question, but I now understand was important to her. She then told me she did not want to be with me, and left the house in tears. The next morning I tried hugging her thinking this had just been an outburst (she had let me hug her the nigh before), but she pushed me away asking if I had not been listening.
Speaking to her over the coming days, I told her how important she was to me and that I would do everything - she told me that she had walked down a long road and that she was now in "listening mode". That it might be to late. Then stuff such as "I would not be able to keep up with her". A couple of days later she told me that she thought we were done.
This took the legs out from under me. While I now recognise that there had been signs, this was completely unexpected. I fell into a real hole and pretty much immediately got therapy. The next 2 months were agony, with my mind trapped in negative emotional cycles of what she was doing (e.g. noticing she started wearing all the lingerie she had never put on) etc. However, I also realised that I had been deeply ground down during the pandemic, having been trapped in a mundanity of work and childcare. And never taking time to take care of myself, which she had repeatedly urged me to do. This is something that has bothered her and which I did not address beforehand, similarly to not consistently taking care of my looks and taking her hints of going somewhere without the kids.
My pivot
She started not just withdrawing from me, but also from the children. Given that our eldest is special needs and we have got complex logistics, I stepped up even more: - at least half of the logistics (next to a demanding full-time job) - breakfast every morning (she sleeps in - I suspect depression-linked, more later) - bedtime almost every evening (even when at the office, I try to come home on time) - at least one and mostly both days on the week-ends taking the kids out and doing fun things (I actually got told off the first time I took them to the theatre "why to you all of a sudden to this") - I sit with my son every evening to teach him to read - I stay over one night a week with both kids so that she has almost two full days free - I do a tremendous amount of the household (albeit she has in the last two weeks picked up a bit more again)
I have also started doing more for myself, finding time in the evenings to do sports at least twice a week. Which has always kept me zen and works its parts in feeling (and looking) good.
I have done lots of reading and listening to learn about relationships and the psychology and experiences of people in MLC or depression. This slowly helped me to let go. While this is not what I want, I have given her much more space, stopped talking about the relationship and taken a lot of stress of her.
Her situation
She is in her early 40s, has been unhappy for a long time (not being able to work, having to stay at home and giving up her career) and in retrospect must have been so pent up with frustration that she was like a volcano waiting to blow up. She is caught in a negative cycle of having made wrong decisions in her past (she should never have had children, she should have walked away 8 years ago etc) and gives me a lot of blame for her misery (I never did enough, I do not earn enough, I am the most boring person on earth).
She has no income of her own; no assets; has been spending significantly more than she can afford to (more now, but this has happened before), sitting on credit card debt that she cannot clear (more on this below).
The one constant at the moment is that she is done with me and does not want to try to reconnect (she told me over dinner in January that she thought we could try and build a bridge, but was not even sure if we were at the same river; and around 4 weeks back told me that she has no interest in trying to reconnect). However, she did go skiing with me for 5 days, but kept her distance and slept in a separate room. The challenge in this is that our life is so intertwined that we cannot separate (which she recognises as well): - We bought the house (she now blames me for this, like for everything) that we cannot get rid of without a big loss - She has no income, and we would struggle to afford two places (this house is too big to maintain as a single person) - Logistics are a nightmare, and a shared parental arrangement will not work - We need to think of the children, in particular the older one where schooling is difficult
She tells me that "we stopped growing together", which I am pretty sure she read in some of her books or heard in a podcast. She has taken great care for me to not see her naked for the past 4 months. However, she does initiate a lot of conversation with me on different topics.
She flipflops between long-term planning (she told me yesterday that we need to make a five year plan and move somewhere more interesting for her again), moving to a City she has been to for one week-end because she liked it, and then telling me that she needs to leave this place because she cannot take it anymore.
She does not want to work again in a corporate (this changes on- and off) and not below a certain salary that she feels she deserves. She is trying to establish herself as an independent and also considering academia / being an artist, but is frustrated at how slow this is and recognises that this may bring her more income.
I get told off for trying to "fix things" (I have always done this and she hates it she now tells me), yet she hinted at her debt situation several times (which I did not respond to) and now asked me if I can take out a loan to help as she cannot clear it on her own.
I do not think that she is in an affair; and I would not have thought that she is the person for this, although I fail to recognise who she has become on occasion. She has been verbally abusive to me a couple of times (telling me she is entitled to this) and cannot cope with having the children on her own the couple of days a week that I have to go to the office. She did try and do some exercise first thing in the morning for a while, but now mostly sleeps in and tells me she has difficulty sleeping.
She has taken to doing therapy which I asked her to and she agreed - she had depression before and recognises that this is an issue. I am not sure how open she is, and if she has found a therapist who is good enough to draw her out.
What do I want
I would like to ideally save my relationship, recognising that this is out of my control at the moment. My priority is my children and keeping them from a negative impact out of this; if she cannot cope at some point, I am willing to take them (which I am not sure she really wants, despite having withdrawn to a significant extent).
I believe that she needs to find a purpose in her life and I am trying to help without pushing her. Yet it is difficult seeing how far I go in this - she does need some realisation that she cannot want out on one hand but expect me to be exactly the same as before when things do not go as planned.
I am willing to give this real time. I would appreciate any thoughts and reflections on my situation, including what I could try (if anything additional) to help her; and potentially try to reconnect.
The moderators will give you a good breakdown on steps you should be taking. Many of them are contrary to what you feel like doing. It's not about you, she is struggling with herself and she likely sees you as an obstacle at this moment. I can see this is very difficult for you and I hope you get through this, try not to get overly emotional in any way, be the best Father you can be and give her her space. I would also not rule out an affair that dismissively, when they turn upset at you for little things and start the proverbial falling out of love phase, it's usually because someone else has caught her attention and they might think they have an opportunity at a new life or a fresh start somewhere else. I am on the same boat as you and I realize in hindsight a complete personality change does not happen without somebody sort of catalyst.
As other posters will tell you, focus on yourself and making the best version of yourself, that can never be overstated
Don't take out a loan for her right now. Horrible timing.
She's all over the place. The question she asked you "what do you actually want from life, what do you want to do with yourself", is the one she appears to be struggling with. But then again, we all do from time to time.
The biggest thing you can do is become a more attractive man and work on yourself.
Keep focusing on you and what you can control. Have a PMA (positive mental attitude). Do the right thing always. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and never lose faith that no matter what happens you will overcome this hardship and be better for it.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Welcome to the boards. I am sorry you find yourself in this situation, yet you are in a good place here. There are many kind compassionate folks here with much hard-earned wisdom, a lot of which will at first be counterintuitive.
Have you read Divorce Remedy by Michele Weiner-Davis? It’s an excellent resource. Do keep it, this site, and the DB strategies to yourself as your W will likely see such efforts as insincere manipulation to just win her back. As Wonka said (and I totally agree with):
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Originally Posted by Lb23
I am looking for advice from some of the women on here that went through a midlife crisis (I believe that my wife is in one), and strategies that may work in supporting her while ensuring that the family does not suffer.
The majority of the population of this site are LBS. There are a few posters who were MLCers, though they do not post very often.
A midlife crisis is triggered by some significant event - birth of a child, a wedding, a death, or some such - which uncovers long buried trauma(s) from their youth. These traumas were inflicted by a person in a position of authority over the youngster. Being young they had an ill prepared coping mechanism or the emotional maturity to understanding or accept what happened. Also, the authority figure usually coerces the youngster into keeping silent and further continues the traumatic events.
The youngster unable to reconcile or understand or cope then buries this vile event. Alas, for such an immature psyche, this extreme denial/burying is the only recourse to stave off a breakdown. However, that which is buried alive will haunt later.
Around midlife, pressures of mortality, marriage, career, kids, family, etc, start to mount. This is normal, as everyone experiences life’s transitions from stage to stage. However, for a MLCer, they had seeds of a crisis planted long ago and those unrecognized and unrealized demons of their past will no longer remain silent. A triggering event stirs those slumbering demons and a crisis bursts forth.
A crisis is consuming. It is ceaseless torment. And the crisis person does not know nor understand why or what is happening to them. Their deep unhappiness and depression grows and grows. They look around and see their once loving spouse, family, friends, and incorrectly assign blame upon them. Usually the spouse acquiring the lion’s share of that blame.
Realize, a MLCer cannot handle this, they cannot accept this continual pain. So they run. They become/behave the opposite of who they once were. They partake in all manner of behaviours. Spending, drinking, drugs, sex, fast cars, illicit/illegal behaviours and activities, and so on. And yes, affairs. Anything to take their mind of their torment. And anything to try to feel something, for depression is ever present.
A crisis is emotionally driven. The MLCer is driven by emotions. They are not rational, they lack empathy. Their emotions are cranked to eleven and they simply do not have any bandwidth for anyone or anything else.
I sincerely hope and pray it is not a midlife crisis, that is truly a horrible fate. However, be it a full blown crisis, a difficult transition, or something else, will be revealed in time.
Your path forward starts out pretty much the same regardless. Focus on you. Give W time and space. Keep pressure to minimum. And do your inner work. Become the best version of yourself. A man only a fool would leave.
Originally Posted by Lb23
ensuring that the family does not suffer.
Your son of 8, your daughter of 4, be their rock. Be there for them.
A person consumed by their crisis leaves a wake of destruction. There is lots of collateral damage. And kids are among that. Be strong and stable. Listen to them. Talk to them. Answer their question, age appropriately of course. Above all love them.
Do not demonize their Mom. Ever. For they are half her, and will personally take on those hurtful comments.
Originally Posted by Lb23
The challenge in this is that our life is so intertwined that we cannot separate (which she recognises as well): - We bought the house (she now blames me for this, like for everything) that we cannot get rid of without a big loss - She has no income, and we would struggle to afford two places (this house is too big to maintain as a single person) - Logistics are a nightmare, and a shared parental arrangement will not work - We need to think of the children, in particular the older one where schooling is difficult
None of those “reasons” will matter to her of she decides to leave. I’ve been there, and nothing is so intertwined, so difficult, such a logistic nightmare to keep one hellbent on leaving from doing so. They simply won’t care about the fallout. Or more accurately, their pain will drive them much more to leave than whatever pains might come about from such leaving.
Originally Posted by Lb23
I get told off for trying to "fix things" (I have always done this and she hates it she now tells me), yet she hinted at her debt situation several times (which I did not respond to) and now asked me if I can take out a loan to help as she cannot clear it on her own.
I’d not get embroiled into a loan with/for her.
Originally Posted by Lb23
I do not think that she is in an affair; and I would not have thought that she is the person for this, although I fail to recognise who she has become on occasion.
Sorry man. I cannot think of any LBS who has not discovered an affair.
It is staggering how common affairs are. Affairs are mere band-aids, a symptom of deep problems. A desperate attempt to find happiness, as they incorrectly equate sex with happiness. They are desperate, and desperate people do desperate things.
Like I said, affairs are staggeringly commonplace. And they mean nothing. They are an illicit relationship built upon a foundation of lies and deceit. It’s like building on sand, it requires incredible energies to maintain, and is almost always fated to topple.
Lb, you sound quite well thought out, detached, and grounded. Well done. Keep living your life, and being there for your kids. Do focus on you. GAL. Keep moving forward.
You’ve got the gift of time. Use it wisely.
I look forward to conversing with you.
Hope you have a wonderful day.
DnJ
- - - -
Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you all for your thoughts and I look forward to "listening and learning". I have been doing a lot of reading of the forum and bought myself the divorce remedy book - I am thinking on how to go about putting some of this into action.
After struggling hard for the first two months, I now try to give her the maximum space. Both from myself, as well of the children. As far as this is possible given that I work from home a couple of days a week. I may occasionally overstep with a comment when I do not catch myself in time (e.g. trying to provide a solution or questioning some of her more out-of-reality thinking), but I have gotten pretty good at listening and trying to validate her feelings.
We have a normal relationship most days (albeit somewhat distant), and I have taken to not always responding and being very limited in communications when I am away. However, then every so often she drops "we need to see what happens to us", "I need to leave here", "I do not want to be here" etc. I now do not react to this and see that I am mainly the one breaking off interaction.
In terms of her challenges (these have been themes across the years), I think the key ones are: 1) She wants to work and feel like an adult and like someone who is being taken seriously and in line with who she should be 2) She wants to be independent and not end up like her mother who wanted to leave at some point but could not given her economic dependence 3) She wants to have an interesting life and be surrounded by interesting people. Where we moved to, being in a more cosmopolitan environment is more difficult given the distance and logistics
Apart from bringing up that she regrets all the choices that she made and should never have had children and is not made for this life, she often brings up issues from her childhood. Her father was pretty controlling, in particular using money as a mechanism. Her mother apparently used her as a confidante when she was 10 years old, speaking about issues she was having with her husband (which might have included an affair on her part). Recently she has mentioned at times that she will only really feel free when her parents are gone.
I have tried very hard to never be controlling and to pick up my part at home and give her time to be on her own. Neglecting myself even before the pandemic, which contributed to wearing down the relationship. However, I think her deep unhappiness about not having a career and being able to use her brain / make money ate away at her to an extent that I just did not appreciate.
The actions that I have taken have reduced friction in our relationship (no more fighting for the past month), but she is still all over the place (this includes her telling me one day she wants to move to a city she has been to once, the next day that we need to make a five year plan where we will go together and the next that she should leave with the kids straight away. While being unable to handle the kids on her own at the moment, which is fair given logistics and the demands of a special needs child).
My objective (similar to others on here) is to keep my family together and rekindle our relationship. I have started setting small goals towards this: 1) Get her more involved with household tasks and activities with the children again (she has withdrawn a lot from them, and they notice) 2) Get her to come along on family holidays over Easter, even if it is staying with my family (which is harder) 3) Getting her to invite me to do something together (just her and me, e.g. a drink or a film)
Where I would appreciate some advice - I am being very kind and picking up a lot at home, with the kids etc. Does it make sense to be firmer and insist with her that she does certain things? For example, she does not have any income (and money as a family is a bit tight), but she keeps overspending. And then does not have any solutions and comes to me. Given her past with being under the control of her father and the deep set trauma around not having her own work/income, do I push her on getting a job? I think it would help her to have something that she needs to do (and take her mind of blaming me, potentially).
Are there any other ideas / suggestions on little things that I could change or try?
Also one question: I am struggling to get her engaged around some of the consequences of her behaviour, e.g. compromising the financial situation of the family etc. Is it worth pushing counselling (e.g. if I get her debt settled, insist on her doing that with me) - or is this something to hold off on? When I mentioned it before she (apart from once in a brief comment) was opposed.
I would be careful not to over exert yourself in trying to please her, she might see it as coming off as desperate or like a last ditch attempt, she seems very confused as to what she wants and doing things for her will possibly have the impact of pushing her away. I would be very careful with the financial aspect of it, when they get irrational they use spending and experiences as a way to give them temporary pleasure without regard for long term health of relationship. By what you explain it seems that anything you do will not alter her perception of the situation, she's fighting her inner turmoil and anything you do will be seen as an annoyance.
Another round of spontaneously getting told how "great" I am this afternoon. Started off by her talking about switching therapist (which is a good thing). The only positive thing she says she took from the therapist is that she always put everyone else first, and not herself. Which has some reality to it, but is far from the entire story.
Then she started talking about needing change - a job and going into the City a couple of days a week will not cut it. She does not want to be in an office. She wants an interesting life - when I ask what that would look like I get told "you are not able to understand". We have been there before. She wants to do big things to the house but there is not enough money. Me not having been promoted (again recently; pretty annoying) is part of the fact that she cannot have an interesting life (huh?), and why I cannot be part of it.
The thing that I am a bit concerned about is the statement that small incremental changes will not cut it, but she needs to blow everything up. Which I have read in some MLC / depression articles, so she may have read that somewhere.
I do not think she will do anything crazy given that she keeps bringing up that she wants to be with the children and take them along.
Thank you Catman for your thoughts, I appreciate it. Will try to keep a healthy distance and refrain from advice etc., which is hard at times given that it hurts to see her suffer like this.
DnJ, I have been thinking about your post. Time and patience is what I am aiming for - irrespective of where this ends. I want her to not end up in a worse situation than she currently is, and it feels like she might be heading there if I am not around tbh.
Just remember a lot of therapists will get stuck in a feedback loop, it's easier for them to scratch surface level stuff and be reassuring and encouraging in their clients path, telling the patient that they need to confront the hard problems won't keep them in business as long. Someone who is undergoing this process will ignore the majority of useful feedback and focus squarely on validating words from the therapist. They in a ways become a gentle enabler. Just be observant of how she acts immediately after therapy sessions and it will generally be very indicative on what the focus of the sessions are. In the meanwhile keep improving yourself mentally and physically and be the best version of yourself. Do not do it for her or make it seem like you are doing it for her, this will in her mind create a contrast of the life she could have with you and without you. The more you try to protect her or stop her from making mistakes the more she will rebel, be cautious still with the financial aspect as any new debts and spending will become marital debt in your current circumstances. It's really hard to do whats best for her, but think of it this way. When you were growing up and your parents said no to you but did it for your own good, did that teach you valuable life lessons and make you a better person or not. A parent who spoils their child is trying to get instant gratification but the one who makes the hard choice of teaching a hard lesson will be over time seen as the better parent.
Hopefully we all come out of this better people and with our desired outcomes. On the bright side I'm not sure where you are but try to enjoy the upcoming weather and have nature work it's miracles in healing you and giving you hope. Spring is a sign of rebirth after all
Hey LB23. I'm glad you found your way to this forum. It sounds like you're doing some good, initial work on examining your contributions to how your M got to this point. I've similarly been dealing with a MLC spouse and can relate to much of what you're describing.
As others have suggested, the only person you can control is yourself. You didn't break your spouse; you can't fix her. Work on yourself solely for the purposes of your own improvement - this will make you more attractive in general, help bolster your confidence, and benefit your kids most.
Regarding goals like having your W join you on trips to see family or spend time alone together with you - I hate to say it but I recommend abandoning those goals for now. As an earlier poster suggested, you need to give your W lots of time and space. She can't miss you you're always around, nor can she realize that you're not the problem in her life. As long as you're around, she can pin the blame on you for why her life isn't going as she'd like it to. When things don't work out and you're also not there, "maybe" she'll see beyond blaming you.
Also, in general accommodating or enabling a spouse's behavior (like not performing an equitable share of chores, childcare, etc.) isn't a good idea from what I've read, at least if/when someone may have an underlying mental health issue. I can see in the short-term picking up a bit more than your fair share because, to me, that happens in marriage (one spouse might shoulder a higher workload than the other and vice versa). Only you can determine what's reasonable in your situation. And, if you're not seeing an individual therapist, I hope you'll consider doing so. They can be a great sounding board for these things.
You're off to a good start. Do pick up Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy and make time to absorb the content. It can help when you are uncertain about what to do/say and may not be able to leverage this board. Good luck!
My objective (similar to others on here) is to keep my family together and rekindle our relationship. I have started setting small goals towards this: 1) Get her more involved with household tasks and activities with the children again (she has withdrawn a lot from them, and they notice) 2) Get her to come along on family holidays over Easter, even if it is staying with my family (which is harder) 3) Getting her to invite me to do something together (just her and me, e.g. a drink or a film)
I understand and empathize and agree with your desire to keep your family together and hopefully rekindle things with W. However, focus on you.
These listed goals are about you trying to change W and/or her behaviour. You cannot control her, you can only control you - your thoughts, actions, and reactions.
Attempting to get W more involved will have detrimental results to your desired outcome. She will push, and push hard, against such efforts. Because:
Originally Posted by Lb23
Her father was pretty controlling, in particular using money as a mechanism. Her mother apparently used her as a confidante when she was 10 years old, speaking about issues she was having with her husband (which might have included an affair on her part). Recently she has mentioned at times that she will only really feel free when her parents are gone.
Don’t step into such a controlling role. You don’t want to reinforce any projection from W, nor reflect her Dad’s controlling behaviours that she rebelling and growing up from.
Time and space.
Space is more emotional space than physical space. Though being apart is usually needed for them to get the time to feel. Give emotional space for her to find and feel her hurt, pain, anxiety, depression, guilt, shame, regret, etc.
Focusing on you provides that needed time and space. Focusing/GAL also gives you something to do instead of pinning away. It fosters your growth and allows you to do your inner work.
Counterintuitively, focusing on W and the M sabotages the chances of the very thing you’re working to save.
Originally Posted by Lb23
In terms of her challenges (these have been themes across the years), I think the key ones are: 1) She wants to work and feel like an adult and like someone who is being taken seriously and in line with who she should be 2) She wants to be independent and not end up like her mother who wanted to leave at some point but could not given her economic dependence 3) She wants to have an interesting life and be surrounded by interesting people. Where we moved to, being in a more cosmopolitan environment is more difficult given the distance and logistics
Yes, those are likely pretty accurate. And beyond your control. W has to grow and step up.
So what about goals and challenges for you? Things that are within your control.
Things like:
My objective (similar to others on here) is to keep my family together and give myself the best chance at rekindling our relationship. Some small goals towards this: 1) Be more, and continue to be, involved with the children and their activities. 2) Do my share of the household tasks. Do not be super husband and try to do it all. 3) Invite W to come along on some family times. Be non-expectant either way as to result. Accept yes or no equally. 4) Do things be myself. Get use to, and be ok with, doing stuff by myself. (Example, go out for a steak diner alone.)
Originally Posted by Lb23
Where I would appreciate some advice - I am being very kind and picking up a lot at home, with the kids etc. Does it make sense to be firmer and insist with her that she does certain things? For example, she does not have any income (and money as a family is a bit tight), but she keeps overspending. And then does not have any solutions and comes to me. Given her past with being under the control of her father and the deep set trauma around not having her own work/income, do I push her on getting a job? I think it would help her to have something that she needs to do (and take her mind of blaming me, potentially).
Some of this is addressed above. The main course here is to let her feel her consequences of her life’s choices.
Do not insist she does anything particular. She’s a grown woman, an adult. Treat her as such. You certainly can have a rational discussion of finances and over spending, however I’m pretty sure that will lead to much eye rolling and tuning you out. Still, ensure the present financial situation has been laid out clearly, then enforce boundaries/consequences to behaviours and actions. You don’t have to solve her problems. Let her find a solution.
If she is considering finding employment, certainly support and encourage such an effort. You might even consider suggesting such, though usually a MLCer pushes against suggestions from the LBS, regardless of how positive or worthy those suggestions may be. They seldom follow through with their own ideas; things from the LBS are pretty much discarded immediately.
Originally Posted by Lb23
Also one question: I am struggling to get her engaged around some of the consequences of her behaviour, e.g. compromising the financial situation of the family etc. Is it worth pushing counselling (e.g. if I get her debt settled, insist on her doing that with me) - or is this something to hold off on? When I mentioned it before she (apart from once in a brief comment) was opposed.
Nope. Especially if she is in crisis.
A MLCer is driven emotionally. Logic and reason do not matter to them. They are driven by their feelings. And they feel depressed.
Overspending is a very common running behaviour. Keep an eye on your accounts! Plenty of MLcers have burnt through the couple’s life savings in a futile effort to stave off their torment.
If things are such that you need financial protection and/or security - get it!
If her spending is on a destructive path to your future and your ability to care for self and the kids - do what you need to do. You have a lot of life left in front of you.
To that end, speak with a lawyer. Document everything! Keep track of what you do, and what she does. Consider removing your half of joint savings/assets and placing them in your own accounts. Have your pay checks deposited into your account. Then transfer monies to joint account for family expenses.
This is within your control and not trying to control W.
Originally Posted by Lb23
she started talking about needing change - a job and going into the City a couple of days a week will not cut it. She does not want to be in an office. She wants an interesting life - when I ask what that would look like I get told "you are not able to understand". We have been there before. She wants to do big things to the house but there is not enough money. Me not having been promoted (again recently; pretty annoying) is part of the fact that she cannot have an interesting life (huh?), and why I cannot be part of it.
Counterintuitively, less is more.
Simply validate her feelings. Do not engage or argue with her. You see how she belittled you with “you are not able to understand”? She is trying/crafting justifications for her behaviour, actions, and mostly her feelings. Don’t step in the trap. You cannot reason with her, for her “reasons” change as quickly as her feelings do.
Originally Posted by Lb23
The thing that I am a bit concerned about is the statement that small incremental changes will not cut it, but she needs to blow everything up.
That is precisely the feelings that their ceaseless torment causes. They feel that blowing everything up is their only way out.
If she’s in crisis, you cannot prevent it, nor can you speed it along. She will progress/proceed along her path and at her pace. It has next to nothing to do with you.
Focus on you. Give time and space. This does not propel her faster. It allows her to maybe work through her stuff more calmly. It’s a long road though. You’ll need to drink a lot of STFU smoothies, as she will turn up the heat on you.
If you can’t figure out the acronym STFU, I’ll spot you a few letters Shut The F___ Up. lol. I drank a lot of those smoothies. Remember, fighting begets fighting. And she will want to paint you as the bad guy.
Originally Posted by Lb23
I do not think she will do anything crazy given that she keeps bringing up that she wants to be with the children and take them along.
I understand. And your statement is very true and accurate - you do not think she will…
Let go your preconceived ideas of her behaviour. From my experience, a person in crisis will do anything and everything. One of the LBS’ biggest hurdle is continuing like their spouse is the same person. A person in crisis is the opposite of who they once were. They will do anything to run from their torment. Anything! Spending, drinking, drugs, gambling, affairs, illegal/illicit activities, and so on. All in attempts to feel young and alive again.
My XW blew up her life in a grand exodus at Thanksgiving Day supper. Without any warning nor previous discussion, she stood up after the meal and a great family day of croquet and card games, and announced to me, our four kids, my son’s girlfriend, and my parents, that she could no longer live with me. That, “you DnJ, get the house, the cars, and the kids; unless you don’t want them, then I guess I’ll have to take them.”
She threw her own kids away. Right there. At the table. In front of everyone.
Well, complete pandemonium erupted. I was totally shocked and apparently went white as a sheet. One son had breathing problems, a few kids and my Dad got furious, some were crying, it was bedlam.
Anyhow, dear W/Mom furthered things with the announcement of her boyfriend. She said she was willing to risk never seeing the children again for her chance at happiness.
Three hours after dropping that bomb onto the empty pumpkin pie place, she left. She walked down the 1400 foot lane to the waiting OM. She moved in with him that night. By the way, OM is basically my neighbour to the south of me. She ran 3/4 of a mile away.
That was it. 3 hours. From bomb drop to gone. 2 months later a separation agreement was signed. 9 months later a divorce was filed by her. 6 more months for the courts to get to it, sign it, and decree it.
She was a fanatic Mom! And an equally fantastic wife. She loved our four kids. She ran a daycare out of our house. And she burnt it all to the ground.
Granted my XW is a tad on the extreme end of the spectrum of MLCer. Still, 26 years of marriage, 31 years together, four kids, and all that - it mattered not. She was consumed.
Originally Posted by Lb23
DnJ, I have been thinking about your post. Time and patience is what I am aiming for - irrespective of where this ends. I want her to not end up in a worse situation than she currently is, and it feels like she might be heading there if I am not around tbh.
I get it. I really do. (((Hugs)))
Her situation, her heading, her destination - whatever it may be, and however temporary it may be - has nothing to do with you.
I’ve been there. It is aggravating to have answers and solution for her, answers and solution she won’t listen to, nor hear. Answers and solutions she would actively go against.
Focus on you. Dig for patience. Be kind and cordial. And give her to the man upstairs. You cannot fix her, for you didn’t break her.
There is hope. Always. For as long as there is love, there is hope.
The future is unknown and unwritten. Let it unfurl on its time. Focus on you and the kids.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Shut The F___ Up. lol. I drank a lot of those smoothies. Remember, fighting begets fighting. And she will want to paint you as the bad guy.