Hello, I just spent a good 2-3 days reading some of the threads here and play by plays of peoples situation, i was inspired to post here bcause i have found this forum to be the most accurate and most enlightening in terms of dealing with my situation. Im going to try and keep this as short as i can
So I 41M and 41F have been together for 22 years, married for 12 pre Dday My situation I would say is a combination of WW and MLC
So towards end of covid a lot of stress between the two of us built up, wife is a nurse so she had to work ICU and I work as a driver, we both worked tons of overtime throughout covid so very stressful. Compound this with spending 8 years trying to have a family with IVF and having little to no success. 2020 we decided to use egg donor for our last shot (her suggestion), come late 2021 and early 2022 we had 3 failures from our attempts. 2022 was the year we both turned 40 so a very important year, both her and I were feeling the impact of this milestone birthday mentally and she was vocal about this. during this year or 2 because of the stress of covid, ivf and mid life, i began to drink more than was healthy, never to the point of making me sick, but it became a way to cope with the stress.
IVF had taken a toll on us mentally and physically, so in 2022 I decided to pause it and plan 2 nice trips to exotic locations, one for each of our 40th birthdays, i also made a concerted effort to plan events, get togethers and excursions throughout the year to make up for lost time with lockdowns and focus on having a family.
During this year there were a lot of fights between us, many of them started from seemingly innocuous things of little importance. it got to the point where she would be verbally and physically abusive to me. I even had to call her parents at one time to come and talk to her after i left the house, after repeatedly being punched in the face. I became confused this year as i didnt feel any of this was normal. Throughout the year she would casually refer to a male colleague at work who would bust her chops about things like sports or whatever, at the time this seemed harmless to me. Things became weird early 2022 when the wife became hypersexual with me and started suggesting threesomes, this wracked my brain because i had a moral fight with myself trying to understand why she would ask this and i didnt feel comfortable with it due to my values.
Throughout this year i started having difficulty with sexual performance, a lot of it was affected by the endless cycle of fights then makeup, it became unbearable, she began having a higher sex drive. Also throughout this year i had 2 different fractures from back and tailbone so i had to deal with a lot of pain as well for at least 3 months for each issue. we had intimacy at least 1-2 times a week, so not really a dead bedroom. During this year the W would repeatedly tell me that if i didnt give her enough attention, she would get it elsewhere, she would also repeat if you ever decide to cheat on me, leave me first. I took my vows seriously and i would never even entertain this idea, I was a very loyal and loving and respectful husband, we did everything together as a couple, i would only go out with her and rarely see friends. Even my hobbies I included her in them.
Fast forward to post 2nd trip in late october, we come back and she starts become distant with me. It became overly obvious something was going on. She started posting more solo pictures of herself online and wanting to go out with female friends, who were all single, she had one friend who was a super bad abple (proud cheater, nymphomaniac, dating a married man). My wife also confided in this woman throughout the whole year.
I started digging and going into call logs as i paid for both phones, started seeing late night phone calls to a repeated number, i called this number, it was another guy. I confronted her, she said she wasnt talking to anyone else. I didnt believe her, so i recorded conversations in her vehicle, within a week and a half i found out she had a PA from this guy from work and was having an EA with a new guy who she was speaking to at night. I kicked her out of the house and sent her to parents home. This was the hardest time of my life, the pain i went through was unlike anything i have ever felt before.
So at the beginning of 2023, i allowed her back into the home, as i knew she had the right to be in the home, much of this month was arguing and me voicing my anger, i know it probably wasnt the right thing to do but i felt like i needed to confront her. We decided to go to MC, which in hindsight was a mistake. the MC would be very upfront with her and i sensed she wasnt too pleased with confronting her actions. During this month it turns out she had booked an apartment and left the house during middle of MC process, at last MC session i asked her to promise me to work on things with me and not see anyone else, she agreed. We began going on dates and wed spend time together, including Easter weekend. I was under the assumption we were trying to reconnect and she seemed to be enjoying our dates as was I. This was a big mistake on my part.
Mid March we were becoming intimate and she drops the bomb on me that i have to use protection. I was floored. It turns out the EA from late in the year had now become physical. This felt like DDay 2, after this i stopped doing the date thing and began giving her an ultimatum. I told her either we sell the home and move on or you come back and work on our marriage. Throughout this time the blame shifting and gaslighting became rediculous. Fast forward to end of May, one of our mutual friends was passing away at the hospital, I had used the 2-3 months previous to help her get her cancer treatment, in a way it had helped me heal and cut back on the alcohol which i was turning to to heal the pain and take the memories away. At her death bed the W decided she wanted to come back and work on our marriage. I accepted her back
This weekend she told me she ended it with the AP, apparently he called her a whore and said karma was going to get her (the irony). This dude had a daughter which he saw on weekends and was paying child support for because he had cheated on his ex wife. So this guy was definitely not a model man. He was the type that knew how to say what she wanted to hear. So i assumed that during this weekend she returned she had ended it with him, she showed me the messages and told me she blocked him. as a condition of working on our marriage i made it clear i wanted to go to Marriage Counselling and we both picked one we could agree on.
2.5 Weeks into her coming back she went to get things from her apartment. this day as i came home i got bombarded with pictures and messages from the AP, turns out he went to the apartment took pictures of her (non sexual) and sent them to me to try to sabotage our reconciliation. She had asked him to go to apartment to get his thingg, but didnt tell me he was going. This was like another stab in the heart for me. He also sent messages to me saying there was a 3rd guy she hadnt told me about also from work, it was another PA, so AP telling me about OM1 when i had only known about OM2. So she comes back home and im clearly angry, she grabs her bags, packs and goes back to apartment. She decides to come back a day later.
Just a note during this time i made a lot of changes, i cut back on drinking dramatically, so max 1-2 glasses of wine during dinner with her and that was it. I used the time she returned to plan things, wed go for coffee during our lunch breaks at work, go for ice cream regularly, lots of walks, watch sporting events, drive in movies, restaurants, cafes, and we had even gone out for our aniversary. I would drive her every day to subway for work. I was being very active and taking up old hobbies again like doing a full vegetable garden, etc.
So after she returns from apartment, she apologized and all seemed well, during this time we began seeing MC, if felt like the MC was trying to get us to both work on our relationship, to me it felt like an absolute cluster@!$#@! of rug sweeping. i hadnt even been able to mention how many affair partners there were.
1 month and 2 weeks into R we got into a big fight, the W went to a party with this friend who i call the devil, i got upset about it, we had an argument, she said something stupid to me so i went for a walk to cool down, i didnt take my house keys. I came back door was locked, her car was gone. I then get messages from AP saying what is it like to be with someone who doesnt love you.
Again another stab in the chest this was. 2 days later i check her phone and shes texting him asking if he misses making love to her. Again i fought with her. 3 days later and the last MC session, i brought all of this up, i broke into tears in front of MC and her and i was becoming tired of this. Later at night as we are having dinner, she tells me the OM2 from work that me and AP were becoming good friends, I said wtf yare you talking to him about our life, she says hes just a friend a friend who she had a PA with for 9 months and works with her. I had had enough I kicked her out of the house again.
So this was late July and i had had enough, i decided to book a trip back to my birth country, the place where my parents now live as retirees. I needed to get as far away from this as possible. during the 2 weeks between me kicking her out and the trip she asked me to come by, her excuse was that her parents liked having me over. I went for 4 days and slept over each day. During this time i was still stupidly looking for a glimmer of hope and/or closure. the 2nd day she tells me shes sorry, and shes afraid of me finding someone back home. she kisses me passionately before we go back to parents home after a walk. This felt more real than anything in the last 7 months. so as im downstairs with her parents, she goes and takes a shower, i end up going upstairs after and sleeping with her. I wake up after her, she goes downstairs to do laundry, i decide to check her phone. so on the phone shes sent messages to AP telling him to see if they can make things work and the same night before sending flirty messages. I confront her and tell her, do you really want to lose me forever, I tell her this trip im taking as a return flight but the next one will be one way. So a day later we had planned a get together from when she had come back home, with mutual friends, a wine festival. We decide to go, have a good time, then go for pastries afterwards as 2 couples even though we really werent. At the table her phone rings, phone is facing up, i can see its the AP, she accidentally answers then hangs up, then turns phone upside down on table after 5-6 phone calls. Turns out the dude saw her friends instagram posts from the festival.
We go back to her parents home and i sleep over again, while im lying next to her, her smart watch is going off nonstop with messages from him, and i can see. wake up in the morning, shes going to drop me off at home and there are 2 dried roses on the cars windshield wiper. I Knew right away what this was. I got mad all the way home.
3 days later im getting on the plane and all i get from her are messages saying, if you step on that plane its over. I reapeatedly said, you are screwing someone else, spare me
So i spend 3 weeks back home, i felt the stress, anxiety and pain go away, i felt at home where my roots were and i was surrounded by tons of family, cousins, etc. I spend the time sightseeing, going to beautiful churches, hiking, etc. during this time i tell my real estate agent here to prepare a listing agreement, and asking her to sign it. She signs it while im away, i come back and i pressure her to come and clean up her things, our house was a mess and it needed to be decluttered.
Every weekend i beg her to come and clean up, i didnt want to touch her things, because i knew shed complain. Every weekend, she always had plans, i had become impatient. During this time i began drinking, heavily, like really heavily. I was just so lost and frustrated that nothing was happening and it felt like everything was ending. I still somehow had love for this woman and it was killing me inside. So september my drinking got to the point where i had to go to hospital and get help, i passed out before nurse saw me in emergency, woke up with IV in my arm and valium in iv drip. The alcohol wasnt doing this to me, it was the severe withdrawal, So 1 day in emergency, 1 day in psych ward, surrounded by people trying to kill nurses and breaking things. I transitioned to a withdrawal/rehab centre for a week, to get supervised medication adn get off the alcohol with the help of medication and some structured recovery.
So once i entered hospital it has now been 6 months without a drink and i do not crave it, i associate it with negative thoughts and a deep dark place i was in.
so it is now October of 2023, minimal contact with her and she only comes over to drop off our 2 cats, i like having them over as they had given me company, and at this time we are late into october and because of her delaying the cleaning its now hard to catch the fall market. During this time i keep pressuring her to destroy the embryos we still have frozen at the clinic so we can get our money back, as a live birth was guaranteed. it was a substantial amount of money and would help us pay for lawyers, mediation and accumulated debt from this situation. It takes her 2.5 months to finally sign the consent to destroy the embryos. On the day she signed and i signed the consent i tried calling her out of sympathy. It was a sad moment because we had spent 8 years trying to have children and this was the definitive end. turns out she was on the other line when i called, so clearly talking to AP. Imagine something so private and something so intimate between the two of us and she discusses it with someone she met on instagram from a year earlier.
That really pissed me off.
So in late november she comes by one day, i had ordered food that we both liked and i got things that she really liked, i would have eaten it myself, she was dropping off cats and i asked her if she wanted some. she then went to sofa and fell asleep in my arms. This feeling kept tugging at my heart and i knew i shouldnt be doing this but it felt so natural and comfortable.
Fast forward to the new year aka 2024 and i became cold and hadnt let her in house since that last encounter, if she was dropping off cats or getting someting like letters id just say bye and wouldnt invite her in. My heart wanted to have her come in but i knew i had to be cold for my own sake. So a month ago we receive money back from IVF and i put a retainer on a lawyer and a mediator instantly. Now im just going straight through the process. Ive had enough of this and have told her repeatedly, i do not want to be in a marriage with 2 other people and i stood alone at the altar when we married. during this time i ask her to pick up the cats as i had forgotten about plans i had for ice fishing with my friends, she replies back with a message intended for AP, i get furious and i drive the cats to her apartment and drop them in lobby and wait at a distance for her to pick them up. this to me was the instigator in wanting to push as hard and as fast as possible for not only a legal separation but also go the whole way and file for divorce after we have a mediated division of assets and liabliities.
A big part of me still loves her, and i think ive come to accept it, another part of me instinctually wants to protect her from her bad choices, but i think i have to let her make them and i need to move on with my life. I think if R is even suggested, id definitely remind her that she wont like the conditions that it will require for me to even entertain such an option.
I dont think id push myself through this much pain if seeing her not being able to be a mother had a major impact on her like it did, otherwise i dont think id be here at this point. But i feel like i must push on with my brain and ignore my heart.
sorry for the extreme length of this post, i will keep any updates more brief as i wish i had come here before and done a play by play as the other threads and gotten good advice instead of doing everything absolutely wrong.
Catman, let me be the first to say that I'm sorry you had to go through this. As was once said to me: sorry you're here but you're in the right place.
First of all, read the posts on boundaries and detachment. Like you, at one time I didn't know enough to recognize when my W was "crossing the line" in her treatment of me, and when a boundary was appropriate. We are taught as kids to stand up to bullies and bullying behavior, but we're never really taught that sometimes that behavior will come from people we love and who are supposed to love us. Boundaries are actions, not words, delivered in a firm and loving way.
Second of all, you'll see a lot on here about "getting a life", or GAL. Do it. Your comment about including your W in everything including your hobbies indicates this will be a big shift (or has been, since your post covers a lot of time). Do not sit and stew in your sitch. Reconnect with old friends, make new ones, pick up new hobbies, etc. This will help with detachment too. I like to spearfish and I'll tell you, when I'm 20 feet down in a kelp bed looking for white sea bass I am not thinking about my W or the decisions she made that contributed to the end of our MR.
Lastly, congrats on your sobriety. Keep it up.
Originally Posted by Catman19
A big part of me still loves her, and i think ive come to accept it, another part of me instinctually wants to protect her from her bad choices, but i think i have to let her make them and i need to move on with my life.
One final note: you did not break her, and you cannot fix her. Remember this.
I am including Cadet’s welcoming post for your reference. There are many links to a trove of useful information.
Have read Divorce Remedy by Michele Weiner-Davis? It’ is an excellent resource, and a worthy read.
Some wise words from Wonka:
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I look forward to conversing with you.
DnJ
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Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Yeah on the GAL front it's been kind of difficult. Winter now takes away a lot of outdoor activities. Can't really play golf, can't do gardening (something the W later complained that I was taking time away from her for), I used to play rec soccer but now I have to be careful after backninjury. I've taken on a crypto mining project in my home, I fill in some free time with video games. Exercise is something I have to focus on, more for my mind. My job is fairly active as I walk betweenb10-15 km daily, I'm currently at ideal bmi, I've gotten my 30-40lb weight fluctuations under control and try andnfocus diet on protein heavy foods and fruit. I used to enjoy cooking a lot, I was the cook at home majority of the time, it tends to be harder to cook complex meals for one person. In terms of spending time with friends that also becomes difficult -nme and w, my brother and w, 2 friends and their wives were a friend group and we were the planners for events, kind of like the glue that held the group together, so getting together with friends with families becomes difficult. I am trying in any way I can however.
On the process front I'm seriously considering leaving thr country and taking a 5 year sabbatical back home to where my parents are, try a new life there and see how it goes, new scenery and options for leisure + a job offer I received when I last went there. I'm fully bilingual so this should help as well as being a dual citizen. This would also give me an opportunity to help out my father who has advanced Parkinsons and can no longer drive or do many things he could before, I'd be living rent free in my parents home until I get settled with a separate apartment. This would be a big move for me so I'm trying not to accumulate any new things right now and trying to minimize my possessions.
On the home and separation front, our home is going to be listed for sale in 3 weeks time, I should be able to get 300k in pocket if we get market value. Although 2 days ago the WW threw a wrench into plans, she told me she could arrange financing to buy me out, either she's making it up to cancel listing and delay or maybe she's got her AP to go together with her. If this is the case its completely wild, I told her before he's chasing you cause he knows you're getting money from house, as he sounds like a scammer from the little I know. This threw me off because I need concrete financing in order to entertain delaying the listing, otherwise it becomes a time wasting exercise. It's just the fact that after 1 year and 2 months now she comes up with something in the bottom of the ninth inning and tries calling an audible at the line. I really do think she's confused, I don't think she's gotten a lawyer or taken anything seriously, I think the status quo was perfectly fine for her, but it certainly wasn't for me.
I am so sorry that you are dealing with this situation. It is never easy, but, you have found a safe place to post/vent your frustrations.
As for your residence, move forward as you are doing. If your WW wants the place, she can go through the proper channels to purchase it, if she can afford it. You want a solid "sold" on the property so that you can move forward.
Continue moving forward, protect your assets and be prepared for wrenches to be tossed in from time to time. She is a very confused individual who does not have a clue as to what she is losing. Right now, she wants freedom to do whatever she wants, i.e., like a rebelling teen, who doesn't realize the consequences of her actions are going to come back and bite her later.
Unless she can offer you proof right now about the financing for the home...continue as you have been.
I know that this is difficult, but keep as much of your time focused on you and what you need to do to move forward. Come here to vent....we all have been where you are right now and some of the posters are going through the same type of stuff.
P.S. Be sure you document everything!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you DnJ, yeah just order divorce busting, divorce remedy and healing from infidelity by Michelle, definitely looking forward to reading them and learning approaches that are counter to what I've been doing. May I also say reading a lot of Sandi's posts and her insight from her perspective on many of the threads has been a fascinating and awakening experience. I find this forum to be extremely intellectual and has a lot of emotional and personal maturity. It's refreshing when comparing to other forums where it's a one size fits all and a lot of acting without thoroughly considering a different approach, infidelity has to be one of the most complex things any BS and couple can go through
My situation I would say is a combination of WW and MLC
After 22 years together, 12 married, such waywardness is quite the gut punch. Repeated gut punch, unfortunately.
Your W is going down a desperate and destructive path. One which, thankfully, you were not invited along.
Be her trajectory a crisis or life transition is hard to diagnose. 40 years is a milestone age which does bring about feelings and realizations of one’s life and their accolades and regrets. A period of finding acceptance of who and when you are. And also figuring out going forward the what, how, and who of your next stage of life.
For a person with unrealized unresolved last trauma(s) this time dredges up pains and torments that they do not understand. They will lash out at those around them, those they love, for they incorrectly assign blame not understanding nor realizing their hidden buried past. For a MLCer, blame and justification towards their spouse manifests as they struggle with their ceaseless inner torments. A person in crisis does not, cannot, yet know why or what they suffer from. It is a past significant trauma - usually traumas - which happened when they were young and unable to understand or cope with such. Therefore they buried it. And that which is buried alive comes back to haunt.
Around midlife, pressures of mortality, work, relationships, regrets, things not yet done, things unlikely to get done, all push. The years of unsuccessful IVF is some extreme pressure for sure. All this stir those long ago, unknown pains within. At midlife, those demons will no longer remain silent.
The crisis person becomes the opposite of who they once were. They partake in all manner of wild behaviour. They are running from their torment. They will spend, drink, do drugs, and so on. They are trying to recapture their youth, to make up for lost time. Of course, that is a fool’s errand, though they do not know that. And yes, they have affairs.
The mixed up hurt crisis person equates sex with happiness. Realize they have no joy in their now tormented life, and they are desperate to find it. And desperate people do desperate things.
Affairs are staggeringly common. The affair partner means nothing. They are a band-aid, a symptom of a deep problem within. The AP is being used, and is using the spouse. Two broken people trying to find something.
All this running is an attempt to quash their pain, and simultaneously to feel something. Their life is a dark consuming place. Horrible. Alas, such is a crisis.
No one can speed up their journey. In fact, any attempts usually prolongs it, or worst stall it. A crisis, once started, has to progress, at its speed and timeline until it is finished. If a crisis does get de-railed, or “ended” prematurely, it will re-start later and will be much worse the second go around.
Also, you do not want the responsibility of her path upon your shoulders. It’s why one should not manipulate their spouse’s path. We cannot see all ends.
A crisis is dark and consuming. Depression is ever present. And confusion is another hallmark of a crisis. The MLCer is driven to their behaviour. Their path, their decisions, everything is emotionally driven. Very little rational logical reasoned steps on their journey.
A MLCer goes back to the time of their trauma(s), the time of when they were emotionally stunted, and needs to grow up from then.
There is period of 18-24 months of before bomb drop when the MLCer is slowly slipping away. Weird unknown feelings stirring within. Then a trigger occurs. A death, a birth, wedding, graduation, etc; something that highlights for them their mortality. This triggering events starts the unravelling towards BD and the start of the running stage.
My XW days after BD was so happy and assured of her choice. A few days after BD, in a so very smug and absolutely confident manner, she told me that for months before BD she cried all the time I was at work and the kids were at school. She said she didn’t know what was going on. That she thought she was going crazy. Then she had her epiphany - that a crazy person wouldn’t realize that, so she wasn’t. And that was that. She blew up her world. Threw me away. Tossed aside our four kids like they were old clothes. And moved in with OM. That was 6 1/2 years ago.
MLC is a horrible thing! And glacially slow to progress.
Your W is painting a target upon you. Projecting and blaming you for her ills. Give lots of time and space. Get a life. Focus on you. These are your path. Keep moving forward.
You cannot control her or her path. You can only control you - your thoughts, actions, and reactions.
No R-talks and no pressure.
W needs to feel the loss of you and the relationship. To come to the point where she realizes that “hmmm, Catman hasn’t been bothering me for quite a while and I’m still unhappy”. Then with some good fortune W might realize that “maybe Catman is not the cause of my unhappiness”. And with even more good fortune, W might look inward and start to do her much needed inner work. Or she’ll move on to OM4,5,6.
Running. They run from their pain. It takes years for them to tire and stop running. And some do not stop running, ever.
You, keep moving forward. Do your inner work. Become the best version of yourself. A man only a fool would leave.
Hope you have a great day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
