first time posting here, and just learning about MLC over the last few months. In this just a little over 14 months from BD but there were signs for a little over two years before that.So I thought if he came home it would be easier. I am happy that he is home. at least I know where he is. But the reconnection process is hard. Bd was 828 of 2022. a day before our seven year anniversary. Said he wanted a divorce and then Because he was acting weird I snooped and found out he was having an affair with a girl he met three weeks prior. Of course I flipped out because he was blaming it all on me. and we have had a hard marriage for a while that I had been begging to work on (he is a vet with ptsd symptoms and had a horrible childhood.) so that i know plays a role in this. but I calmed down and said if he cut her off we could work it out. he said all the stuff about he didn't know what he wanted and didn't want to be alone so he couldn't cut her off.
so i go about doing all the wrong stuff get mad and file for divorce and then beg and plead for him to come back. he goes into a full on relationship with her and even introduces our two littles to her within two months. After about 4 months i finally get through to him that that is not healthy for them and he keeps them away from her. was doing and spending money on stuff he never would have at home. went 10k more in debt in a few months. his mother is all ok with him living there and ow staying over with our kids, because as i found out later she had been caught cheating 12 times that I know of and all four of her husbands were the previous husbands best friends.
so we go on him saying maybe we can work it out and him being the ugliest to me that i have ever been treated in my life. completely cruel and justifying every bit of it. in about June he starts to get depressed. starts talking to me more. the lies continue as he swears he is not with ow anymore but i can see her car at his house when i pass by for work. he had also ghosted his whole family other than his mom because they did not support him in this decision.
so we go back and forth and i finally have enough after receiving a txt that was meant for ow the end of July justifying why he was going to stop by and see the kids but that he wouldn't stay long so not to worry. i tell him I am getting of the roller coaster and he had till the fallowing Sunday to end it with her or I was moving on. he begged and pleaded and then went silent. he did break up with her at some extent because her Facebook was all sad posts about true love waiting forever. he didn't say much to me for like three weeks.
Then a year to date of him leaving he comes over and stays till 9 to tuck the kids into bed. does this for three weeks and has some monstering moments. all the reasons our marriage wont work out. such as but not limited to I like a different breed of horses than he likes, I ran over and extension cord that was in the carport, i put iodine on a small cut to disinfect it on my son instead of peroxide. you know all valid reasons. then he stayed a few nights on the weekends in the kids room. then 2 weeks ago he came for a weekend night stay and never left. sneaking in a box at a time.
there is no relationship talks and i have worked very hard to not let any anger I have come over me. he is still a little protective of his phone but getting better. I am sure ow is still pressuring him. so I would rather look like the calm better option.
but he has done a few baiting and instigating that i know he is seeing if he can get me to blow up. I have read they will do this to test if you still want them or not. But what are my next moves to build a connection and not stay in the roommate stage? I know this is all new so it will take a while but I want to make the right moves to not mess up. he does talk about the future with things at the house and what not but as far as being engaged in the now he isnt much there. I am seeing him do some things that are even better that he didn't do before but not much. i think he is in-between the depression and withdrawal stage, but when does the actual reconnection start? and what can i do to make sure i do that correctly? O am just lost but doing what i can to keep my family together for my kids. he is still mentally messed up. no memory and confused about all kinds of daily things.
Welcome Jess you have come to the right place. Make yourself comfortable and at home here in this place. There is a lot of care compassion experience wisdom and respect here for you.
Welcome to the boards. I’m sorry you found yourself in this situation. I’ll paste a copy of Cadet’s welcome thread for your reference. There are many links to a trove of useful information.
Have you read Divorce Remedy? I’m guessing that you have discovered it by now, being over a year post BD. With H being at home, do keep the book and this site close to your chest. Ensure you erase the browser history on the family computer. H will likely incorrectly see this guidance as manipulation, which will not help.
By the way, how old is H and yourself? You mentioned two kids. Boy and girl? Ages? We are anonymous on the board and you do not have to disclose anything you wish not to. However, details do allow for folk to more tailor their suggestions.
I see BD was last August. H was embroiled in an affair at the time and move in with his Mom. When did he leave? When did OW move in?
What happened with your filing for divorce? Is it pending or did you withdraw it?
These folks can spend quite a bit. H accumulating $10K in debt in just two months. Do you know the extent over the 12 months? Are your finances separated or still joint?
Originally Posted by jessieht
all the reasons our marriage wont work out. such as but not limited to I like a different breed of horses than he likes, I ran over and extension cord that was in the carport, i put iodine on a small cut to disinfect it on my son instead of peroxide. you know all valid reasons.
Lol. They do have some wild reasoning. My XW “left” because the furnace blew cold air.
H broke up with OW. Perhaps at your behest. Realize breaking up is hard to do. An affair is like a drug, and withdrawal - not the MLC withdrawal stage, but addiction withdrawal - is super hard. So much pain and anguish as one’s mind screams for what is now absent. You likely experienced similar back when H left. Hopeful, H will stick to this path and not rekindle with OW and just take it deeper underground.
Originally Posted by jessieht
then 2 weeks ago he came for a weekend night stay and never left. sneaking in a box at a time.
I would have liked to see a time when H lived by himself, sans OW. A time when you and he could speak and date. A time when he can demonstrate and you could assess his willingness and commitment. For example: H, I am willing to explore us, to date, and maybe even live together again. If we are still compatible, I could see us living together in 12 months from now. Realize, you cannot see or have anything to do with OW, ever! If you do, that 12 month clock resets. You start again.
Of course, H is sneaking in one box at a time. And you are allowing him to. This can work as well. Or you could ask/tell him to live solo and perhaps you use six months instead of twelve.
At any rate, you’ll have the lion’s share of the work here. Do have to be pressure-free. Allowing H to find his path. After a year, he has so much guilt and shame to process, plus all the demons that propelled him out the door and to an affair in the first place.
Remember, you didn’t break him, therefore you cannot fix him.
H has lots of work to do.
Originally Posted by jessieht
but he has done a few baiting and instigating that i know he is seeing if he can get me to blow up. I have read they will do this to test if you still want them or not.
Yes, he will test you.
You have to have rock solid boundaries. Know what your boundaries are. Do not accept disrespectful behaviours. H needs to know that you are firm in them. For what good are belief and values if not the bedrock of one’s life. H is testing for that. Like a teenager testing their parents. They need to know you will hold them accountable while still loving them.
Originally Posted by jessieht
what are my next moves to build a connection and not stay in the roommate stage? I know this is all new so it will take a while but I want to make the right moves to not mess up. he does talk about the future with things at the house and what not but as far as being engaged in the now he isnt much there. I am seeing him do some things that are even better that he didn't do before but not much.
It’s ok to be in the roommate stage for a while. H just left OW. He needs to get through that first.
Originally Posted by jessieht
i think he is in-between the depression and withdrawal stage, but when does the actual reconnection start?
Like stages of grief, one can be in multiple stages. H is likely tasting the depression stage, and is still leaving the replay stage. It is quite nebulous these stage transitions.
Reconnection has already started it sounds like. It will be in the reverse order of leaving. In the order of least hurt to most hurt. Reconnection starting with pets, friends, kids, and then spouse.
Originally Posted by jessieht
what can i do to make sure i do that correctly?
Dig for patience. DB. Focus on you. Live and love your life. Let H run to catch up to you.
Originally Posted by jessieht
he is still mentally messed up. no memory and confused about all kinds of daily things.
Depression and confusion are hallmarks of a crisis. They do have the memory of a gnat for quite a while. Be prepared, H will exhibit such confusion for a good while longer methinks. As I said, lots of inner work to do. All the trauma(s) he experienced as a wee lad.
A MLCer’s journey has nothing to do with the LBS. Long ago childhood trauma(s) were buried. Those pains and torments lay hidden, unreconciled, and unknown. At midlife those demons no longer will remain silence. And the person in crisis does not know what or why it is happening.
Their journey is a long one, and their path a twisted one. H may relapse back into replay. Or he may not. Be pressure-free, employ boundaries, and dig for patience. H did return home. See where he takes this.
I look forward to conversing with you. Hope you are having a great day.
DnJ
- - - -
Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you so much for this. I am trying for patients as much as I can. I have had a few slip up and let me anger get the best of me but have been much better. we are both 39 and our littles are 6yo boy and 7yo girl. I kicked him out the day I found out about the affair. He said he wanted to go ahead and divorce the day before because he was tired of my crap but couldn't tell me what that was other than the house wasn't clean enough for him. and of course when I asked if there was someone else he said i was crazy. this all happened the day before our 7 year anniversary. I do believe there is still some contact with the ow over phone and they work together so there is that. he only spent 75 hours with her from the day they met at work till the day he said he couldn't let her go. He is being kinder and is trying to help more around the house finally, also taking the dogs that he "hated" so much for rides. I am trying to look at progress in months instead of days because day to day there is set backs some times. But I know he carries a lot of shame. he moved mack with his mom and she plastered videos of them at Christmas on social media so all he people he looked up to seen it. she has traumatized all 4 of her kids but he is the only one that wont admit it (yet anyways) I am trying to be as kind and patient as I can and pray he gets there. I have finally realized there is nothing I can do about it. but I do see things going backwards from the peak of things back to how they started, so I am holding out hope but no expectations. also we have always had separate money so his should not effect mine at all as of right now, the divorce is basically just in limbo at the moment. i filed before I started to learn about all of this stuff. But he never really moved out, he took his work clothes and a few things but would never come and get the rest of his stuff. He has shown some remorse and crying when we would talk but not a lot. Thank you for your reply and will go through all of those links.
Last edited by DnJ; 10/21/2301:21 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Hi Jessie welcome. I am so sorry to hear you are going through this.MLC truly can be a horrible thing, and there is alot of damage that gets done. Your situation certainly sounds hard with him moving back In, has he started any R talks? I think them coming out of their crisis is hard and a long journey too, and you need to be prepared for the ride. I can’t speak of it as I feel my H is still stuck in his. But I know you said about the day before your wedding anniversary this happened. To be honest I think part of the MLC process is the people we knew cease to exist. The kind hearted generous H that we once knew become full blown selfish a/holes. I know mine did. He BD me a week before Christmas ( and I LOVE Christmas and he knows that), he told the kids and moved out 1 week before our S12 bday, the day of what was suppose to be our 16 wedding anniversary he decides to call a lawyer and then tells me “we are definitely done and there is no hope “ The MLC monster is a horrible one. I hope someone can shed some light on what to do with your H considering he’s come crawling home with his tail between his legs
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
Hi Jessie - You are in the right place in terms of useful practices and support. Cadet's welcome email is especially great. As others noted, the discussions on boundaries, Sandi's rules, etc. are often helpful. This is my 2nd time around and the two themes that are most helpful have been: 1) giving the person lots of time and space and 2) getting a life and making yourself the most attractive you can be (for yourself). The time and space can help someone see that YOU actually aren't the root cause of their crisis. Absence can also make the heart grow fonder. Getting a life and working on you helps keep you busy at a minimum, helps you get some positive momentum going instead of feeling stuck, and gives you a valuable path to follow, whether your marriage works out or not. As other say, the only person you can control is yourself. We will be here to listen, offer support, and hopefully help you calmly and rationally navigate a difficult situation, while he is being driven by emotion, PTSD, and other things that often mean his behavior will be illogical. Take care.
No Definitely no relationship talk. he is being nicer our last big monstering was the weekend he moved came back. He left in a rage and then came back 45 minutes later and acted like nothing happened the next day. I am really trying to just drop the rope but it is so hard when it involves my kids and my life. but I am trying to look at progress on the larger term instead of day to day. and that helps. We are definitely better today than we were two months ago. and he is acting better also. but the avoidance and withdrawal are so hard to deal with.
Dropping the rope is hard. Really really hard. Believe me Jessie it took me a while. I too have kids and H is still very involved into their day to day ( until he leaves-yes my H recently decided to take a job transfer on the other side of the world so there’s zero logic with MLC) so it’s so so hard to drop that rope. But once you do you will feel better or at least start to heal you. As DnJ says you didn’t break him so you can’t fix him. Don’t even engage in R talks even if he brings it up. I have learnt to shut it down. While they are still “broken” they can’t handle them( as you have seen with the storming out). My H may start to say something that resembles R talk and the moment I respond( despite what I say) he internally combusts and usually shuts down or storms out. You live and learn p
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
Thank you so much. yes this last few weeks i have been really just letting go of it. my 7yo daughter asked him last night if he was actually moved back in or not and he told her yes but has not talked to me about it at all. I am just leaving it be for right now. I have heard from a lot of people and read in the another book that they will keep the AP in their back pocket for a while which is killing but is what it is i guess. Thank goodness I am coming up on the busy time at work for me so I don't really have time to focus on him. But just to let him be for a while. He is very withdrawn right now so i am just going to let it go where it will.
Last edited by DnJ; 10/23/2304:22 PM. Reason: Removed reference/name.
The withdraw is killing me. he was crying a lot and wanting to move forward for about two months and talking to me a lot. now the last two weeks he is super withdrawn. he will make connection with me and his family on his terms but if we call or txt him for anything it is quite evident that we are an inconvenience. He did start BuSpar this last week so hopefully that will help. He hasn't blown up a lot but has done some baiting into arguments that I haven't fed into at all. but I feel more hated now than I did when he was gone and in a full on relationship with his OW. he is reconnecting on so many ways and helping around the house and will talk about future but then he will turn around and just turn into teenager that hides and lets you know with his energy how annoyed he is to be around you. I read that more marriages end in withdraw just because of the pushing they do so I am trying to stay strong but this [censored]!!!!!!
Last edited by DnJ; 10/25/2307:27 PM. Reason: Removed other site/reference.
It is totally understandable that his behavior hurts at this stage. They have to have time and space to wrestle with their demons (and to see you less as one of them). Meds usually take about two weeks to have any effect and that is if the dosage is correct for a person's needs but hopefully you'll see a noticeable difference. Don't take the bait either! Great job not feeding into it. It can feel like you're not defending or sticking up for yourself. In reality, the best thing you can do for YOU is not get pulled further into conflict.
Dig for patience. Continue to leave H to his path.
However, do not forget about you. Like I said, boundaries. They are very important. People will treat you as you allow them to. H is emotionally very much like a teenager, and will test you. He will push against every one of your boundaries and buttons.
You don’t blow up, you don’t take the bait, you simply enact the enforcement you previously rationally decided upon when crafting the boundary for H’s behaviour.
Also, be diligent to not sweep things under the rug.
Originally Posted by jessieht
he is being nicer our last big monstering was the weekend he moved came back. He left in a rage and then came back 45 minutes later and acted like nothing happened the next day.
Originally Posted by jessieht
We are definitely better today than we were two months ago. and he is acting better also. but the avoidance and withdrawal are so hard to deal with.
There will be a tendency for H to avoid dealing with his emotions, responsibilities, accountability, etc. That’s a pretty big item for why he is in this current crisis situation. You can state to him there is a certain level of behaviour required to live under your roof.
It a bit of a razor edge. H does need to express his frustrations and other confusing feelings. Yet, you are not his emotional punching bag. He can get an actual punching bag and sweat out his feelings upon it. Or go for a run, or some other physical activity.
By the sounds of things, H has times of lucidity and openness to such a suggestion. A willingness to consider a better path or option. He is reconnecting with you and his family, even taking the dog for rides; all much better behaviours than months ago.
My thoughts are with H being 39 he could sweep this present crisis under the rug, avoid it, and it will come back later at more midlife age, like 50ish. At half century life’s mortality pushes differently, careers are winding down, the time left for life’s possibilities is much more in one’s face, kids are grown, and so on. A delayed crisis, when it comes back is much worse.
Anyhow, you cannot control H’s path. You can exert some influence though. And the best way for that is to live your life. Be your best self. And let H catch up to you.
Be that strong confident stable gal who doesn’t walk on eggshells, does not pretzel herself, loves fully, and doesn’t take no cr@p.
Understanding, kind, compassionate, empathetic, forgiving, and not a doormat.
While/when H behaves like a teenager, treat him like one. And for the most part, that’s letting him be. Remember, depression is ever present in a crisis, so there is plenty of brooding and sitting alone. H being home, you will see what he could hide before. You will see his mask slip much more often.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
So I have read in hearts blessing that the ap will normally stick around in the background for a while. I do believe my husband is in the withdraw stage. what is ya'lls opinion in handling this. He doesn't work with her anymore and he has moved home so I know there is still talking and txting going on. I am trying to pretend I don' know but I don't know if that is the right thing to do ore not. we have not fought in a month after him moving back and he is doing kinder stuff little by little but it is hard for me to even act normal and want to engage in anything with him when she is still around.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'm not here much anymore, although I do stop in from time to time..
I'm also not gonna focus too much on where HE is.
And I'm gonna ask you some questions about where YOU are...
Whether he is home or not shouldn't change who you are and hopefully have become through all of this.
A lot of the old timers here called Piecing..... Piercing, because of how painfully hard it was. The reconnection from a non emotional place can be difficult enough without throwing affairs of the heart into it.
When you add in the emotional baggage of children, history , memories, and what once was. It tangles it into a web that is almost impossible to get through. So what happens is that past behaviors get applied, and old patterns take over until you find yourself right back in the same miserable place ( if you are totally honest) you both wanted to run from.
Standing your ground and absolute boundaries are your only lifeline to finding something different. And you have to enforce the boundary in order for it to mean something.
Something is drawing him back, and for now, it doesn't matter what it is.
An MLCer will not return to a situation that they were trying to run from...
However, pretending that he isn't living there, and sweeping everything under the rug isn't healthy for you , or the future of this relationship.
Something like....
Is this working for you ? The being here again ? Because pretending that you haven't moved back in isn't working for me. I feel like if you are here, we are working toward a future, and if we aren't working for a future, then I think it best that you aren't living here
???
Most in MLC, when they start seeing the world again through rational eyes, are broken, laying at their rock bottom, looking up for a lifeline to pull them through. Men in MLC are a little different than Women are in that there are usually a lot of false starts.
Men are typically less emotional creatures than our superior counterparts. Therefore they can only take it so far before they have to walk away and regroup.
You may see that, you may not.
With any luck though, YOU should be light years ahead of him when it comes to relationship skills. I don't know you, however hopefully, you have been honing all of the things that you didn't like about yourself within the confines of a relationship. Making changes to yourself and for yourself.
So him catching up will be frustrating at best for you. Have patience....
He will also fear judgement GREATLY...
He will struggle with forgiveness GREATLY...
So some questions.....
What does reconciliation look like to you ??
What does having a healed marriage look like to you ??
What boundaries are you putting in place to protect yourself ??
What fears and anxiety are you having over the thought of this ??
What does forgiving him look like to you ???
How can your boundaries be strong, without punishing him ?
Have you forgiven him ??
Have you forgiven yourself for your part in the breakdown of this relationship ???
Thank you all so much for your advise. I do feel like I need to ask him and talk about him moving back in and what that will look like for both of us. And let him know that while I can not control him I can control what I allow to be right under my nose and act like I don't see it. I know so many say not to push at all but he has always come through a little further with slight pushes. I guess a little stirring the pot is the term I have heard used. He has always had a big issue with being complacent and without a little push would always stay exactly where he was. Like I said he is seeming to be more normal and other than there being no relationship talk or ANY physical touch. (he was twisting in pretzels to get by me in the kitchen without touching me. But that has gotten much better and is starting to use playing with the kids when they are close to me or in my bed to get closer) it is like we are all back to normal. Better than normal because we are not fighting at all. He has started to pitch in more with house expenses and chores. not a lot but better than he ever did pre BD. So know it is just him being stuck in this limbo of ending it completely with OW and really having the conversations that we need to have about what we both need in our marriage. Thank you all so much for the advise and support.
Hi Jessie - I was glad to see your update. Regarding the feedback you received about not pushing, you ultimately have to decide what works best for your situation. To paraphrase what MWD says, do more of what works and less of what doesn't. Just remain mindful of falling back into old patterns and mistaking those for "what works" if it really did contribute to the challenges in your marriage. I was also glad to see you building up your boundaries, especially around OW. MWD talks about infidelity in her books and John Gottman does as well. He has an especially good chapter on it in What Makes Love Last. In addition to the discussions on this board on infidelity, I encourage you to check out these books. Do make sure you're setting aside time to care for yourself too!
What is ya'lls opinion about the ow still being in the back pocket means that they are still in replay. I read the hearts blessing book and sometimes that is the only thing that gets me through this with not blowing my top and just being done. My husband talks about our future now like he is never leaving. plans for the house and barn and what not. but there is no work on the relationship. i know i am looking for this way to soon. he has been broken up with the ap since the beginning of august and hope full time since September. I can see there is certain things he is baiting me with for arguments sometimes and I am trying my hardest not to feed into it and to just walk away. he went through about two months of bad depression just before he broke up with here while he was back and forth between us but i know there is still some contact with her over calls and txt. but in her book it says if there is any contact that means they are still in repay so i am gearing up for a larger worse depression and withdrawal. he has been withdrawn since about 2 weeks after he moved back in. He has also been on BuSpar for a month now so I am not sure what is the mlc stages or meds. i am not trying to stage watch but also am trying to prepare for anything wors that is yet to come. the coach i am working with thinks he is in acceptance but I know from what she says that is almost the hardest stage with them pushing. he has done some pretty big pushes but yet says he wants to have a good marriage and family now. but of course everything is still my fault for the affair. yes i can own some things i did wrong in our marriage but to be honest he has always been super emotionally immature and frankly verbally and emotionally abusive. I do see that getting better after replay. in replay he was the most cruel person I have ever seen. but know if is just a mental mess of what to do because no matter what I do it is wrong. if i am nice it is wrong and if i stand up for my self i am wrong. so I am just trying to be myself and how I would always be. And as I read the book again i can see so much of what was happening before bomb drop. it is good to see the script from others though and know i am not alone.
Until the OP is out of the picture, he is going to be bouncing around. Yes, he's home, but his words and actions may not appear to be in sync. The best thing you can do is to listen and do not make comments unless he asks for your comments and/or opinions. He is not baked yet. In my opinion, he still has a ways to go and if he is baiting you, he is looking for an excuse to leave again. Again, just listen. Sounds like he is just now going into a deeper depression and withdrawal. BTW, that is not acceptance.
Take a huge step back and allow him to figure things out. He needs to look within for that illusive happiness and the OP is nothing more than a band aid. Until he gives the OP up, he will be waffling. If he truly means that he is never leaving and wants to work on the marriage, then things will need to change with him and his actions. Always remember...actions speaker louder than words.
Continue as you have been. If he says that you have done something wrong, just say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and leave it be and walk away. Sounds like he is still trying to find some excuse to leave again.
Also, the stages and the descriptions of what happens are just a guide. Each person is unique, therefore their crisis will be unique for them. Some bounce back and forth for quite some time before they settle down into their own skins and that is when acceptance occurs. Others may run back up into the tunnel for security for a while longer. He has to figure himself out. I don't think he's done that yet. Step back, give him all of the space he needs. Live your life as if he is a roommate.
The process of being home and finally coming to the end of the crisis will take just as long as it took for him to entire into the crisis...approximately 12-18 months, or longer for some.
Keep the focus on you and allow the man upstairs to work on him.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
And another reason why I asked you those questions the other day....
Now is NOT the time to be weak about your convictions with yourself...
Boundaries are essential...
I would also say that walking on eggshells doesn't play into what is best for you either...
From my perspective...
It seems that you are walking a razors edge line between being the person that you want to be, and the person that is willing to allow him to come home and pretend that nothing ever happened...
One of those things keeps you stuck in limbo...
The other will allow you to live your life, and be okay whatever way this works out...
Be the lighthouse in the storm rather than the rowboat...it's a much smoother ride
Yes, I do think he is looking for it to be me that looses it and kicks him out again. little does he know I am not cut out for not having my kids with me full time so i can be stubborn and wait it out for that reason alone. i don't want to live like this but I can stay for the kids.
Thats what i was thinking about the depression and withdraw. Yes the sound of him being in acceptance sounds great but I don't see a lot of those signs there. I do hate when he is depressed though. it is probably harder on me than when he is angry.
He has made many comments about her being a distraction for him event back when they were in a full on relationship. He said "when I am with her we have fun so I don't hurt" and even things about material things. he has always been very into material things but he has said when he buys a new gun or makes a change at work "maybe this will make me happy" and of course it does for a few weeks and the it is back to his new normal.
i have noticed since he came back he sleeps a lot during the day. and will have the game on tv and watching youtube and playing a game all at the same time if he is not sleeping.
as for the good, this last week he has actually dressed like he used to. after he left he started not carrying about how he looked really bad. was always in NASTY old cut off jeans that were falling apart and t-shirts with holes in them. he was military and has always dressed nice and made sure he was clean and pressed. most of his family noticed this before i even did. but the grungy clothes were also the OW style. so he never had to try and impress her. not that i ever cared or would have judged him for dressing like that with me but he always made sure he was dressed nice so it was nice to see again.
thank you all for the help. i am just trying to stay sain in this twilight zone.
I am really trying to not let it bother me and rather almost find humor in t. i really don't think it is funny but if I laugh i don't cry. Yes the eggshells have been for a long time even before bd. I know I need to start being stronger. i was just worn down already when he bd'ed so it was a ride for the last year as well. but at least i can say my kids are happy for know so I am trying to just give it some time. but if he leaves again i do not believe i will be waiting around any longer. that is where my head is for now anyway.
I am really trying to not let it bother me and rather almost find humor in t. i really don't think it is funny but if I laugh i don't cry. Yes the eggshells have been for a long time even before bd. I know I need to start being stronger. i was just worn down already when he bd'ed so it was a ride for the last year as well. but at least i can say my kids are happy for know so I am trying to just give it some time. but if he leaves again i do not believe i will be waiting around any longer. that is where my head is for now anyway.
You can't imagine the strength that comes from being strong first, and allowing the chips to fall where they may...
And if you aren't strong for you, then you can't be there and be strong for anyone else.
Kind of like the oxygen mask on a plane.
You are told to put yours on first, before you help others...
I see that in your posts too...
You are very focused on what HE is thinking, doing, acting....
One of the hardest things is to let go, let God have him to work on. A large majority of the people who come here are fixers. We want to fix things for them asap and that is not how this crisis works. The crisis individual is the only one that can fix himself/herself. Why? Because whatever happened to them long ago is what they need to go back to and better understand why things were the way they were and face those ugly truths and accept that they are not at fault for what transpired. We can be there to listen, i.e., as a friend. Only offer up advice if asked for it.
Yes, we want the crisis to be over yesterday, but it doesn't work that way. Each crisis is unique and it will take however long it takes for them to work through their painful emotional issues. While they are working on themselves...we should be doing the same. We should be making a list of the things that we have allowed to collect dust in our minds and pull them out and work on them. Ask yourself this...what type of things did you enjoy pre-marriage? What have you allowed to collect cobwebs over the years and put on the back burner? Now is the time to pull those items of interest out and do them. Now is the time to re-discover the person that you once were. Make changes if you need to...but remember...those changes must become permanent and not just to get your h to notice you.
I know you probably get tired of hearing this...but you must keep the focus on you. Live your life to the fullest and if he so happens to want to a part of your life, he will do so. You can invite him to join you for some activities, but for the most part, be mysterious and do some things on your own and you do not have to share everything w/him at this time. Let him think about you. He can't miss you if you are there all of the time. He needs to wonder what you are doing. Give him something to think about.
Keep the focus on you and please, please do something extra special for you today.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
i read in another thread that you were/are military and a coach. are you a coach for db or relationships? My husband is a marine vet and a deputy now and i would like to find a coach that somewhat gets the ptsd aspect of him.
Unfortunately, one of the rules on the Board applies to contact off-line. We cannot provide our personal contact info on the Board. I do not think that MrP is a coach on the Board because Michelle has removed the "Coach" segment from the platform.
Maybe MrP can assist you while you both are on the Board. Hopefully, he can provide you with some sage advice on ptsd.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
No problem. I was thinking he may have been one of the coaches for d. busting. I am going to call about coaching from them but am hoping to find someone with some ptsd understanding from military. Thank you all so much.
I would try calling a VA medical clinic and/or hospital to see if there is someone that can help you with the ptsd situation.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
As much as I wish 1) I was a DB coach and 2) a veteran - regretably I am not. I believe I quoted another member of the forum whose user name is/was Coach at one point and/or referenced that I worked with one of MWD's DB "official" coaches the first time D came up. I may also have mentioned my W has some unresolved trauma from a past relationship that seems similar to PTSD. Job has the best recommendation to reach out to the VA to see what resources they provide. I've got family who were in the military as well as close friends. Though it can be a pain, the VA actually seems to provide incredible benefits that our vets 100% deserve. Until that trauma/PTSD is addressed, my understanding from a prior marital counselor is that it will be difficult to impossible for the relationship to make positive progress. I wish I could help more. As others have said, please make sure you're doing things for your OWN well-being.
yes the councilors we are seeing individual are from a va non profit. Well he was going and once he got the ptsd diagnoses his councilor left and now he hasn't gone back. they have a marriage councilor there but i am asking him if he will see us separately as well and sometimes together. I think if we go in there together right away he will take anything i say as an attack. but if anyone else says or suggests anything it is like gold to him. but if i say something he wants nothing to do with it.
yes the councilors we are seeing individual are from a va non profit. Well he was going and once he got the ptsd diagnoses his councilor left and now he hasn't gone back. they have a marriage councilor there but i am asking him if he will see us separately as well and sometimes together. I think if we go in there together right away he will take anything i say as an attack. but if anyone else says or suggests anything it is like gold to him. but if i say something he wants nothing to do with it.
This is a good idea. Also, counsellors often can’t give the advice they’d like to give to individuals when you’re both in the room.
well I haven't had him Monster in 2 months to the day till today. I called to tell him his grandmother sent me a somewhat cryptic txt that she was in an ambulance with his papa. so I called him right away to let him know and see if he had already heard. He said he was going to call her asap and hung up. i didn't want to call his grandmother and overwhelm her with calls while she was on the way. So I called back a few later to ask what all happend and if he was ok. He totally blew off his papas situation with heart failure as just short of breath. he has blown off this side of his family so bad since this has started. hence the reason his nany txt me because I am the only one that that checks on them. so he said I was calling to tell him that just so I could keep tabs on what he is doing. and not because i felt like he should know. and then said i was telling him to call her instead of calling her myself. said it was annoying and stupid to have to deal with me and he wasn't doing this anymore. I do not cal or txt him unless needed for kids or house stuff even since he moved home. he makes it know I am an annoyance when I call. so I dont. so he just screamed till he was dont and hung up. I know they come back broke and I know there is a long way to go. But I sure dont know if I will be doing this for years.
I am really trying. I can tell it is all just projection but it is hard to not defend or at least want to try and explain yourself. I can take a good ass chewing when I know it is my fault but it has always been a hard thing for me when people are convinced I am doing stuff that I am not. He txted about 6 hours later to say dinner was ready and I just did a simple OK reply. I got home and for the first time since he has been home he cleaned the kitchen and reorganized some stuff and got groceries and made dinner. I tried to just stay busy with the kids and in my room. he was still a bit ugly and not picky but he kept trying to get me places to see what he had done. I gave him a simple thank you. Of course i have been swamped with work and so I have been praying he would help at the house some because I am so overwhelmed. and acts of service especially when I am overwhelmed is definitely my love language. But I still gust tried and staid dim. normally I would be telling him how thankful I am that he helped but to be honest it is normal household stuff like taking cafe of the kids and help in the house so it is more like him bread crumbing me, He has always done that when he steps over the line and then goes right back into it. just trying to dig in my basement for any more patients. thank you
…his grandmother sent me a somewhat cryptic txt that she was in an ambulance with his papa.
Was grandma with grandpa or H’s dad?
Originally Posted by jessieht
He totally blew off his papas situation with heart failure as just short of breath. he has blown off this side of his family so bad since this has started.
Grief. It’s expressed in some wild and unpredictable ways.
Grandpa, or especially his Dad, having a life threatening episode brings to the fore the fragility and mortality of our brief time here.
H dismissed this as shortness of breath. The first stage of grief is denial. That normal protective mechanism one deploys until they gain some balance and can better discern what’s going on.
Anger usually follows after the shock and denial have worn off. These feelings are reactionary to the loss.
My Dad has had a few heart attacks and some rather grim episodes over the past year or so. And yes, there is denial, and then anger. I felt angry for my Dad for getting old, sick, potentially leaving, etc. Then there is bargaining, depression, and finally acceptance. Quite a mix of emotions one works their way through.
Originally Posted by jessieht
[H] said it was annoying and stupid to have to deal with me and he wasn't doing this anymore.
H is scared and angry. And this medical situation will stir up his childhood memories and emotions too. He is lashing out at you. Lashing out at the messenger. H’s reaction towards you is not fair or warranted, and you know it’s not about you.
As we’ve discussed, H will test you. His lashing out is actually a good thing. H sees you are a safe place to land, a safe harbour within his storm. He feels safe enough to express his frustration and grief. Someone who is done, is very much indifferent and does not interact like that.
Boundaries. There is a line, a balance to find, between disrespect and expressing his feelings. H can do better. And H will treat you as you allow it.
H has been two months of relatively calm behaviour towards you. Things are going to happen, life is going to happen, and H is going to have to learn how to better handle and express those situations.
Have you considered and crafted any boundaries? Made rational and thoughtful decisions of behaviour(s) you find disrespectful and what action you would take in such a situation? This decision making is done when calm and free of such stimuli.
Something along the lines of: H, I am willing to discuss your frustrations and problems, even listen to you vent. However, when you yell “about” me, not to me, about me, on the phone I feel deeply disrespected. When you do this, I will hang up the phone.
Originally Posted by jessieht
I am really trying. I can tell it is all just projection but it is hard to not defend or at least want to try and explain yourself. I can take a good ass chewing when I know it is my fault but it has always been a hard thing for me when people are convinced I am doing stuff that I am not.
Some caring advice:
Stop trying and start doing. Do or do not, there is no try.
Look to that which you state after “but”. It is usually some form of justification or reasoning for what proceeds it and/or our inaction to do what we know we should.
“…it is hard to not defend or at least want to try and explain yourself.”
Stop trying.
Do.
And the best way to do that. Be. Live it.
Your best defence by far, your best explanation by far, is consistent demonstrated behaviour. Live your convictions and values. Let them shine.
“…it has always been a hard thing for me when people are convinced I am doing stuff that I am not.”
And how has that gone for you? Anyone ever change their misguided opinion about you from your words? Or did you have better success through actions and demonstrated efforts?
A bit of wisdom from an older guy: Nothing you do matters, and everything you do does.
You cannot change or force anyone to see you or “their” world in any particular way. People see through their own lens. For those willing and capable of seeing other and other’s viewpoints, they grow and learn.
If one is firmly convinced about you or something (like flat earth), there is nothing you can do to control that. You can influence a bit, yet their growth and change is upon them. Realize their being convinced about you, actually speak volumes about them.
Our need to defend, explain, and such is based upon our need to control. Let go that need. You only control your thoughts, actions, and reactions. Always. In that manner, there is no unfulfilled “need” to actually let go of. The true underlying “need” is needing others see your viewpoint.
This underlying need is our ego. That need to be right. Let that go. Realize people have their own truths. You need not fill your self worth with the crumbs of others and how they see you.
Know thy self.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
People react to scary news in different ways. Some will listen and be polite about receiving the news from others, some will react like your h did and others will go into panic mode. If this type of situation occurs again, just say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and hang up. You do not need to justify why you called. You did the right thing in notifying him. When he calms down, he may very well apologize. Some just sweep the episode under the carpet.
Right now, he doesn't really know how to deal with the news about his grandparents. You have to remember, he's in crisis still and they react to news, positive or negative, differently than we do.
Continue as you have been. Just be yourself. You did nothing wrong in contacting him. He needed to know.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Yes I know I let it get to me more than I should have. It never fails when I get overwhelmed at work during the Holidays that I slip more on just letting things go and looking at the bigger picture. Usually after a big old crying spell after things get built up I can calm down and look at things a bit better. When I got home he did do a lot of cleaning and got some groceries. (Which is my love language). he has not hardly done that since being home or ever for that matter so I take that as his way of smoothing things over without him actually apologizing. He has always had a hard time with verbal communication like that.
When your h does something be sure to let him know that you appreciate it. They didn't get positive affirmation when they were young, so it helps to recognize their efforts when they are positive.
When things get to be too much, take a walk, a nice drive also helps. Doing something for you will help you overcome that "overwhelmed" feeling. Life is difficult at times, but when you have someone you love in crisis, it gets even more difficult because people do not understand what is going on w/him and the situation. Most people will want you to walk away from the relationship and find someone new. Until they have walked a mile in your shoes, they will not understand.
Learn to stop and smell the roses, breathe and each day, find something to be thankful for. Make a list of activities/hobbies that you would like to start in the new year. These activities are for you and you alone. If your h shows an interest and wants to participate, he will ask to join you. If he doesn't, then do them on your own. They are for you and your sanity. When someone returns home, this is the hardest part of the journey. Why? Because we want them to be back to normal asap and it sure doesn't work that way. It takes months and even maybe years for some of them.
Dig deeper for patience and understanding. He has to work through his issues and heal. Be kind to yourself and keep your expectations at zero at all times. Remember to breathe!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job nailed it. I will add one thing. Stay busy! The LBSs that struggle there must do GAL the least. Sitting and stewing in your own juices will keep you stuck for much longer. Get it and move your own life forward.
Last edited by SteveLW; 12/05/2302:22 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yes the people wanting you to just walk away is hard. Ironically I work with two people that have been though this that I work with. My Boss was the first one to tell me it was mlc. Her and her husband were divorced for two years and she can relate to almost all I am going through. Funny enough I also know her husbands affair partner. They both divorced their spouses and both remarried their spouses. My boss and her husband after two years and his affair partner and her husband after 5 years.
Also a coworker that her husband had a hard upbringing and he went nuts for 7 years after he started an affair and she got him on drugs. He never left but they lost everything and it resulted in a baby girl. He finally broke down the other night crying and promising to fix everything he has ever put her through.
I will say like you said it is almost harder when they first come home. I do need to work on GAL more for sure. It has just been hard because I have so much on me with the kids, work, bills and our property. But I need to make time for myself. I have done much better on actually buying myself things. I never used to and everything that I made went to kids and family stuff. I am not ashamed of that but have realized that I was neglecting myself a lot.
I have really worked on letting him know that I do appreciate when he does things since he has been home. And yes, I sure am impatient for a normal relationship at home. My adult son is moving out in two weeks and as odd as it is I think that will help. I will at least take one thing that he uses as an excuse for us to not work out away. He is running out of them. (reasonable ones at least lol).
As far as going out with friends it is a high rope act. He doesn't like it when I am not home but I guess if he doesn't he may try and fix things. And he doesn't like it when I am just at home really either so I cant really win with that So I might as well be having fun.
I do run into issues with smart contact as far as just everyday stuff. He doesn't really like me just calling or txting for just conversation or everyday stuff but if i don't he says he he feels like I don't want to talk to him. And in those times I will tell him I am not sure what to do, assure Him that I do like to talk to him but that I don't want to push. but it is super awkward. All i can do is pray that his fogged up mind clears and we are able to work on things.
Well a little update over the holidays. My H and Son 20 (not his bio son) got in a huge argument about two weeks before christmas. of course my sone truth truth darts at him for what he has done to me. I left and went outside. h came out and made sure and tell me "See thats what yu raised in there. I total screw up" I didn't respond. I did tell him later that I knew he wasn't the one to start it and he handled it well to start with. he then gave me the ultimatum that if if I wanted to show him i was willing to make changes I would make my sone move out. and made sure and throw in that he is only home for the kids but even that isn't worth it anymore. my sone was scheduled to move out in two days anyways. my son stayed at home that night but felt uncomfortable and wanted to get away so I got him a hotel with a hot tub so he could get some alone and rest time before moving.
After that he did call and apologize for yelling at me and talked to my son some over text and said he commends him for trying to protect me.
since then has been decent, he still will blow up and a few times literally run out of the living room and slam the bedroom door like my 6yo does. I have not responded to any of these actions and probably about 10 minutes after he is normally back out and acting normal. He has also started being very paranoid about stuff at the house. we live way out in the country so during the day we normally dont lock the door while we are home and going in and out. he now locks and double checks all the deadbolts and sleeps with his rifle by his bead. he isn't sleeping hardly at all unless we are all at home and he is in the living room in his chair. he was also always a back sleeper. now he is in such a wrapped up fetal position its like a little ball. he cycles with his clothing and the "normal" lasts longer than the homeless look but it still goes back and forth a lot.
we had christmas eve with his fathers side and he was nice to us but took every chance to yell and belittle his father for anything possible. He did get me a gift that he was exited about though. I didn't expect that. Nothing big just a new crock pot that he knew I was needing.
the rest of christmas was spent at a cabin with his moms side of the family. we were at a cabin and had to share a room. the first time sleeping in the same room in 16 months since bd and him leaving for the ow. it also marked him being home for 3 months. he was nice but distant to start with but then made some comments about making sure I was comfortable. I am always freezing cold and he asked if i wanted him to turn up the heat. i told him I wound be ok because if he did everyone else would be to hot. he said " well I dont care about everyone else"/ It was a small thing and I dont want to look to into it but about the only time in years he has put my needs over his family. then towards the end he came and sat next to me on the sofa. he has only done that one day since bd and that was back in april. any other time he will sit as far away from me as possible. then he had to work the last night and I got a horrible sinus headache and he offered to run me out medicine. something that he wouldn't do even before bd for a year or so.
His mother on the other hand was super rude to me and the other sons wife but she made sure and didnt do it while my husband was there so he never seen it.
so all in all it was good. he is still very withdrawn but has made some small plans for things he wants to do at the house. even saying his nanny should come and put here trailer there at our house after his pappa passes. said me and her could do a garden and raise some chickens together. so I think those are some positives.
me on the other hand have been struggling with patients. I have been doing a lot for myself but to be honest i am tired of being a wife to some one that is hardly a husband. yes this last few weeks have been better but I still feel like he is taking advantage of the situation. I want to talk to him about where we are but know I cant and I have to let that come from him but I am just struggling with anger lately because i just see him sweeping this under the rug like he always has with so many other issues. I need to get to the gym to get my anger out. I know I will be ok in a day or so but this last few days I am just done. I know we have a long way left to go. and I do see it going back to how he was as far as treating me to when it was bad just before bd. I have read it is like a balloon and it changes and goes up and then goes backwards but with changes (and a lot more damage) down to the normal, he was in this 1 1.2 to 2 years pre bd so I guess it will take at least that long to get better.
I understand the frustration and anger you are experiencing. Find something physical to do, like beating the crap out of a pillow, taking a walk and screaming at the top of your lungs, beat the crap out of a pot...anything that will help alleviate some of that frustration and anger.
He sounds like he is still depressed and still a confused bunny. I know that watching and hearing him act out tends to try your patience, but he is still a 13 year old attempting to be independent and get his way. Yes, your man/child has to grow up and I bet that whatever stunted his growth took place around the age of 13.
As for his mother and family, let it go. They have to live with themselves for the way that they trat people. Lady Karma has a way of working things out, just not on our timeline.
Holidays are stressful for us sane people, but for crisis people, the wires are disconnected in their heads and arcing all over the place.
Continue to do for you. Keep the focus on you and the things that make you happy at this time.
May the new year be a better one for you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
its funny you mention 13. the two children I see in him is a very small child and a 13-14 year old. his mother abandoned him very young and at 13 resurfaced and he went to live with her. started drinking and doing drugs to the point his grandparents would have to go pick him up when the cops would find him past out in town. his mother would not go get him. His sister has told him after bd that the reason all of them are messed up like they are is because of her. he doesn't like that. he very much wants her love and validation that he didn't get.
he also has ptsd and a lot of survivors guilt so the holidays have always been hard for him.
thank you for your reply. i sure hope he will come out of it and isn't one to get stuck.
Well, that explains a lot of what is going on with him. He was emotionally stunted at a very early age and needs to go back to that age to figure out the whys of things. He needs to understand that none of it was his fault and when he can accept that, he will then start to grow up. It's going to take some time for him to accept that he could not change the past and what happened with his mother.
He did a lot of rebelling at a young age and it was a cry for help. A cry to attention and affirmation.
I hope and pray that his mother will finally realize her role in all of this and apologize to him for abandoning him, but she doesn't sound like she's one that will do that.
Dig deeper for patience. You might want to wander over the Midlife Crisis forum and read some of the postings there. There is quite a lot of information there that may help you along the way.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Jessie, you cannot allow all this to be swept under the rug. You should not even entertain him returning to the marriage without dealing with everything. This is why it's important to have requirements for reconciliation. Now, most LBSs, and LBWs in particular, bristle at this notion. They see it as a barrier to reconciliation, and so out of fear won't do this.
Here is the thing, if you do not require certain things from him before you consider reconciling then you will simply be kicking the can down the road, and you'll be setting yourself up for another bomb day.
Some suggestions:
He agrees to IC to deal with his PTSD. He agrees to MC. He agrees to full transparency. This means you gave full access to his accounts and devices. He agrees to a mutual tracking app on your phones.
This is important Jessie. Have the list ready to go in case he continues towards wanting to reconcile.
Trust me on this one, not having a plan in place like this is setting you up for future pain. I've been there and.done that.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
My XW displayed/displays distinct ages or personalities as well. Mostly she is a brash 18 year old. I knew her during this age and her behaviour is as I recall, just more rebellious and teenager-like. With pressure or confrontation she withdrawals and becomes her when she was 13. More pressure and she’ll revert to a young girl of 7.
In each of the ages, she is “living” then. It’s like time travel. Long ago events and memories are like present day to her. Very rarely has she “been” her true age.
A few times this wild transformation was witnessed by me, my BF, and one of my sons. It’s one of the spookiest things I’ve ever seen. Years ago now, her pod-person 18 year old was berating me and discussing/directing me of her divorce plans. I mentioned and defended how our relationship of 31 years was full of love, not like she is describing.
W somewhat ignored and continued, then stopped mid sentence. Her face brightened. Her eyes sparkled. Color returned to her face. And W was there again. She said, yes, there was love. We were happy.
She spoke for about 20 seconds. Wife. Mom. Witnessed by us. Then something within her reached up. Her face contorted, the color drained from her cheeks, back to gray ashen, her eyes became black and lifeless, and she picked up her conversation right where she left off - mid sentence.
The three of us all looked at each other. We all were like - did you just see that?!?
These ages are times of trauma(s) is these crisis peoples lives. Trauma they experienced from someone in a position of authority. Trauma they could not understand, nor accept at such a tender immature young age. Hurts from the very people that were suppose to protect them.
Children are very egocentric. The world revolves around them. And as such, they incorrectly assign blame and ownership of this trauma to themselves. Compound this with the neglect and gaslighting and fear based swearing them to silence and they have some pretty serious mental and emotional anguish.
They are young. Their immature minds and souls cannot deal with such horrible events, so they bury them.
Denial, is a normal response when something is too great and would shatter one’s psyche. The normal course is as one heals, one uncovers bit by bit of their loss so they can heal and accept it. For these youngsters, that is not the case. They are immature and, through no fault of their own, just bury it. And things buried alive, come back to haunt!
Around midlife, with the pressure of mortality and all, those demons come back. No longer will they remain silenced. The crisis person is consumed by long ago, forgotten, and unrealized trauma(s). The pain and anguish, they have no understanding of why it would be. They simply cannot understand or accept its from them, from their past, and “blame” and “run” from their spouse, marriage, kids, pets, family, friends, work, life, etc. None of which can actually fix them, for none of which broken them.
These lost souls need to heal and grow up from that time. Need to see and understand that they were not at fault. That they are not the fault. It’s a tough road, a painful road, and they run from it. Some do, in time, figure themselves out and face their past. Others do not. Their journey is on their timeline.
As LBS, one should be mostly pressure-free, while not being a doormat. It’s very important to uphold your values and boundaries. Like a rebellious teenager, the spouse will push and test, for they need to know that you are assured and strong in your convictions and care.
You’ve seen the teenager behaviour from H. His manner of dress. His behaviour. They relive their time(s), seeking and hopefully finding understanding and acceptance of it.
Originally Posted by jessieht
[I] have been struggling with patients. I have been doing a lot for myself but to be honest i am tired of being a wife to some one that is hardly a husband. yes this last few weeks have been better but I still feel like he is taking advantage of the situation. I want to talk to him about where we are but know I cant and I have to let that come from him but I am just struggling with anger lately because i just see him sweeping this under the rug like he always has with so many other issues. I need to get to the gym to get my anger out. I know I will be ok in a day or so but this last few days I am just done. I know we have a long way left to go. and I do see it going back to how he was as far as treating me to when it was bad just before bd. I have read it is like a balloon and it changes and goes up and then goes backwards but with changes (and a lot more damage) down to the normal, he was in this 1 1.2 to 2 years pre bd so I guess it will take at least that long to get better.
Yes, patience is a struggle. Dig deep my dear.
It’s wearisome to be in such a lopsided relationship. H is “currently” barely a husband. Remember, time travel. H, back then, wasn’t married, didn’t have kids, and likely didn’t even know you. That’s a crisis person’s emotional state. And how they can seemingly behave and act so indifferently.
Even though it’s seldom shown, their emotions are cranked to eleven, and there is simply no bandwidth for you nor anyone else most of the present time. As they heal, their emotions get slowly dialled down, and they start to feel towards others again. Their progress is a slow process, and quite hidden from view.
Continue to be kind and cordial, and not a doormat. Be pressure free, open to dialog, yet let him mostly lead the conversation; as you’ve been doing.
GAL, exercise, focus on you, etc are all excellent for your mental and emotional health. And provide excellent influence towards H. Living well, and letting (making) him catch up to you. Keep moving forward is really your best path.
Hope you have a great day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Jessie, you cannot allow all this to be swept under the rug. You should not even entertain him returning to the marriage without dealing with everything. This is why it's important to have requirements for reconciliation. Now, most LBSs, and LBWs in particular, bristle at this notion. They see it as a barrier to reconciliation, and so out of fear won't do this.
This.
If someone can get something very easily/cheaply/without any effort, how much are they going to cherish and value it?
YOU ARE THE PRIZE HERE.
As SteveLW says, anything else is just moving the problem down the road a year or two.
So this last weekend he referred to himself as my husband for the first time in 16 months and the next day introduced me as his wife twice to people he works with for the first time in a long time. I will take those as wins. still doing covert controlling behaviors and will walk past me many times even if I am speaking to him like I am not there but I am trying to look at progress in months not days. we are defiantly better than we were. When he was first coming around he was really good and then fell of to the baiting and controlling but even the 8 stages book says they will do that.
The odd thing is that i am seeing so many personalities in him right now. he is so so confused and is making mistakes in every day things that he was so ocd about all of his life. it is odd but I am just giving space and time right now. I know I will not live in this limbo Hell forever but for now I am working on me and will see if he will catch up or not.
I see a lot in your post about him. Tell us more about you, what you are doing and focusing on? Haver your thought any more about my last post? What are your requirements for reconciliation?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yes, I am working on a lot of things. I quit school at 15 to help my family with bills so I never got my diploma. with my job now I don't need it and am doing well but I am getting my ged just for me so I cab say I did it. I also Just bought myself my first new car. when my h left I was absolutely destitute with finances. I came back to my old job and worked my butt off to pay off most of my debt and do good for the kids and I and was finally able to get my new car. it may have been an irresponsible choice for a mom and I guess you could say I am going throe my own mlc with getting a challenger but I have always wanted one. (at least it isn't a red convertible). So I am doing those things and working on a few side gigs to get going while it is winter and then will start doing ore gardening and stuff with my horses in the summer. I don't have a lot of friends so not much on social life but I like to be home with my kids anyway. I am A firefighter with my local vfd so at least I have those guys but of course those are all more of a work relationship but I know I have help when I need it. But that is all about me. day by day I realize that I am more than just the deputies wife and I have a lot to be proud of myself for.
ps i wright out my posts by talk to text on my phone. lol. I really will pass my test. My grammar and writing isn't as bad in real life as it is on the forum.
Yes, I am working on a lot of things. I quit school at 15 to help my family with bills so I never got my diploma. with my job now I don't need it and am doing well but I am getting my ged just for me so I cab say I did it. I also Just bought myself my first new car. when my h left I was absolutely destitute with finances. I came back to my old job and worked my butt off to pay off most of my debt and do good for the kids and I and was finally able to get my new car. it may have been an irresponsible choice for a mom and I guess you could say I am going throe my own mlc with getting a challenger but I have always wanted one. (at least it isn't a red convertible). So I am doing those things and working on a few side gigs to get going while it is winter and then will start doing ore gardening and stuff with my horses in the summer. I don't have a lot of friends so not much on social life but I like to be home with my kids anyway. I am A firefighter with my local vfd so at least I have those guys but of course those are all more of a work relationship but I know I have help when I need it. But that is all about me. day by day I realize that I am more than just the deputies wife and I have a lot to be proud of myself for.
Love this.
So he's a cop? Have you seen the divorce rate for officers? The average number of marriages officers end up having?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I don't have a lot of friends so not much on social life but....
One of the posters (DNJ??) has challenged other posters to stop using the BUT statements. Finding friends takes effort. While I was going through my sitch, one of my 180's was to engage more with everyone I interacted with. My friend base has expanded by doing this.
Originally Posted by jessieht
I like to be home with my kids anyway.
Seek ballance. Adult interactions are important as well.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
One of the posters (DNJ??) has challenged other posters to stop using the BUT statements.
Yes, I am one of the folks who does promote less use of the word “but”. But, usually concatenated two contrasting viewpoints in order to reinforce or demonstrate the perceived impossibility of other views or change. For folks going through such a life upheaval as these situations, limiting possibilities is less helpful. Also, but is sometimes used to justify something that one knows they should not do, or would be better not doing.
My caution regarding word choice (our minds are always listening and will craft one’s reality as one asks) is not judgmental; it is for one to see, or foresee, their reasoning. Seeing more clearly and therefore making better and clearer statements and decisions going forward.
Quote
I don't have a lot of friends so not much on social life but I like to be home with my kids anyway.
Quote
I don't have a lot of friends so not much on social life.
I like being home with my kids.
But ties things together when they really are separate. Don’t want to tie your social life with being home with kids. That can lead to resentments. For example, kids have something come up - school, birthday, whatever - and you need to look after them. But I was going to go to the movies. But I had plans. But I…
Kids are important. Your social life is important. True, there is a hierarchy, yet both can exist and be balanced. “But” not only allows the current status quo, it reinforces it incorrectly. Prevents you from discovering wonderful opportunities and possibilities.
Your coworkers on the volunteer fire department sound like good folks. You have a good working relationship with them. And they have your back. Keep “but” out of it. Don’t muddy it up on yourself. (IMHO )
Originally Posted by jesseiht
Day by day I realize that I am more than just the deputies wife and I have a lot to be proud of myself for.
Absolutely!
A firefighter. Getting your GED. Paying off your debts. Purchased a new car. Looking after your kids. Fantastic. Good for you! Quite the gal.
Originally Posted by jesseiht
I really will pass my test.
I’ve no doubt!
Have a great day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
So, I have to give this man an A for problem solving I guess. So about 2 weeks ago I said we were all going to start washing our own dishes in the house. I don’t mind helping the kids but I also get all the pans and stuff so I don’t feel I should have to come home to a sink full of his when he is off all day. I have not done a 180 on this and have really been doing all the little wifey stuff and bending over backwards because i didn't want him to feel I wasn't a good wife and someone else would do it better for him.
So it was going ok, he wasn’t really doing it, however was at least putting water in them to soak so not to big of a deal. That was until a week and a half ago I was taking a timed test in my computer. Mind you he was off that day, the kids were hungry so I put them in a pizza because lord knows he wasn’t going to. He is standing right by the oven and tells me I better come see if it is done. I wasn’t going to argue so I put my laptop down and go check. Wasn’t done. So when it is done I quick run and to get it out and run the pizza cutter over it and set the pizza cutter in the sink so I wouldn’t loos time in my test.
He comes over and sees it and starts talking about how I can’t live by my own rules. I tried explaining that I was taking a test and when ever I put something in there it is me that washes it anyway. Well I should have stopped but after he keeps on saying I was just mad for him calling me out I got mouthy. Told him when I leave dishes in the sink I am the only one that will wash them so I am still washing my own dishes. When he leaves dishes in the sink I am still the only one that washes them. He couldn’t see the difference in this. So he blows up and starts saying how lazy I am. And then said one of the most dumbfounding statements. He said “fine Jessie. I will wash all the dishes and cook all the meals. Bath the kids and sweep and mop the floors. Clean the kids room and do their laundry all while working full time. You just sit there on the couch and do you. And be lazy like that for the rest of your life”
The look of WTF was all over my face for sure. He just listed every single thing I am solely responsible for while he sits in his chair and watches tv, his phone or sleeps. I waisted my breath explaining that that would not be fair either and it doesn’t have to be all or nothing for either of us. We can be partners and help each other out. To which he responded by walking off and screaming “this is why I can’t [censored] stand you”. I stayed away for the rest of the day. Had a little mini breakdown hiding in the bathroom on the phone with a friend.
From that day on I have only washed the kids and my dishes along with any cooking stuff. So by today he has about 6-8 little reusable containers in the sink. He will put water in them but that is it. And yes they do stink a bit. So I came home and seen him eating leftovers again. When he was done I noticed there wasn’t another container in the sink. I figured he threw it away so I checked. Not in the trash. Something inside said “oh not he didn’t” I went to the fridge and oh yes he did. This man ate all but two bites out of this thing and put it back in the fridge. Knowing I won’t wash his dishes but I will clean out the fridge and wash those containers. I mean, cleaver yes. But so infuriating to constantly be called lazy by someone like this.
How do you handle them pushing back from your 180's, and what is good 180"s or not? I don't want him to think I will not be a good wife now that he is home, however he is only doing certain husband things and is still very full of contempt for anything I do. I have been doing a lot of stuff for me and working well at being detached. Just not sure how to tip the scales back to back to positives without being his slave with a shut mouth the rest of my life. or any sort of attraction for a relationship. I always make sure I look nice but he has never been sexually driven at all like most men. So that isn't a lot of help for me.
When I look back his mlc had been going on for about 2 years before bd 17 months ago. I do feel like it peaked and in hindsight we are close now to where we were the few months before bd other than sleeping in the same bed, occasional sex and talking on the phone during the day. I assume that is a good thing. From what I have read mlc is like a balloon going up and it is exited the same as they went in. Do any of you have any insight into this?
That is all rant over. Got to laugh so I do t cry. lol.
Last edited by DnJ; 01/21/2406:13 PM. Reason: Removed swear word.
Folks in crisis or emotional turmoil are like teenagers. And like teenagers, they will rebel against you. They will test your boundaries and resolve. They will test you patience!
Originally Posted by jessieht
The look of WTF was all over my face for sure. He just listed every single thing I am solely responsible for while he sits in his chair and watches tv, his phone or sleeps. I waisted my breath explaining that that would not be fair either and it doesn’t have to be all or nothing for either of us. We can be partners and help each other out. To which he responded by walking off and screaming “this is why I can’t [censored] stand you”.
Yep. You can fight, explain, rationally show the sky is blue, and they will still say it is red.
Remember, their path is emotionally driven. And emotions are non-rational, and therefore cannot be reasoned away. Emotions must extinguish, and that requires time. And not having the emotions reinforced.
H is a whirlwind of reinforcements, justifications, rebelling, and emotions.
Originally Posted by jessieht
How do you handle them pushing back from your 180's, and what is good 180"s or not?
You do your 180’s for you. That is how you know that it is good, and why you keep at it (how you handle the push back from H).
Originally Posted by jessieht
he is only doing certain husband things and is still very full of contempt for anything I do.
Yes, H will dredge up contempt and direct it at you. And if he cannot find “reason or justifications” to do so, he will make some up, or bait you into a fight to restock his supply. Not taking his bait at such efforts is one of the LBS’ lessons in all this.
Realize for H, he cannot be wrong. He truly cannot emotionally accept that. Not yet. He needs to grow up. Like a teenager.
This doesn’t mean you don’t or cannot hold H accountable. Stick to your boundaries, 180’s, and path - for you. For your health and welfare. (It’s also the best way to influence H forward. Albeit he is glacially slow. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.)
Originally Posted by jessieht
I have been doing a lot of stuff for me and working well at being detached.
Excellent! Keep at it.
Originally Posted by jessieht
Just not sure how to tip the scales back to back to positives without being his slave with a shut mouth the rest of my life.
What are you weighing?
Sounds like the scales are tipped correctly to me.
Positive progress in a MLCer is devilishly tricky to ascertain. Most of their progress is internal and therefore occluded from our view.
Your positives, you can see, you can affect, you can control. The LBS keeps moving forward and lets their MLC spouse run to catch up. (Your positives, that’s the scale you focus on.)
Originally Posted by jessieht
From what I have read mlc is like a balloon going up and it is exited the same as they went in. Do any of you have any insight into this?
Here’s a few good tidbits. By the way, Eagle3’s story is a good one and full of various insights. If you haven’t yet, it’s a good read. Along with MA1970, Pattnee5, and many others.
Hi Jessie. You're doing a lot very well. I wanted to comment on something you said in your first paragraph:
Originally Posted by jessieht
I have not done a 180 on this and have really been doing all the little wifey stuff and bending over backwards because i didn't want him to feel I wasn't a good wife and someone else would do it better for him.
Is "doing all the little wifey stuff and bending over backward" working from your perspective? What reactions if any is he giving you to show that he appreciates your efforts, thinks you're a good wife, and nobody else would be better for him? My intent isn't to be a smart aleck about this. To me, doing all the wifey stuff and bending over backward doesn't seem to be generating a positive response from him or for you.
It is counter-intuitive, but changing YOUR behavior in the oppositive direction (a 180) here is what MWD suggests we do. As the saying goes, "Don't know what you've got until it's gone". IF there is a chance your hubby will turn around, it is unlikely to be because you're doing the same things you've always done. You need to behave "as if" you've woken up to the current version of your marriage not working. To me, a person (husband or wife) won't respect or be deeply attracted to a partner they know they can take advantage of regularly.
Enough on that. You're doing so well overall. I'm glad to see you venting and joking around out here. Slipping up, especially while still learning the DB roles, is natural. You're building new skills and just like when we start dieting or exercising, we slip up, have a "cheat" day, and slide back a step. Think about how you're going to respond better next time something similar comes up so that you're ready!
I agree...leave the container in the frig. He is like a man/child right now and he will do whatever he thinks he can get away with. Yes, he was a little bit clever...but you are smarter than a 10 year old. He is lashing out at you because you are the "mom" to all in that household. Continue doing your dishes and those of your children. If he leaves dirty dishes in the sink, move them to the side and when you are done washing up what you are responsible for, put those dirty dishes back in the sink. I know...sounds catty, but you have to stick to what needs to be done now. He is a roommate and he needs to be treated as such.
It time to change things up. When you have a moment, sit down and think of ways to do things differently. The first thing is what would a roommate do in your home if you had one living there? Would you do his/her laundry, clean up his/her dirty dishes and pots and pans? Fix that person meals and wait on them to sit down at the table and eat?
As for him ranting about taking on all of the responsibilities that you are doing...I would like to see him do that. He doth protests too much.
Time to change things up. BTW, you do not always owe him an explanation of what you are doing and/or why. Does he give you an explanation of what he is doing and why? Keep your responses short and to the point.
You are doing great. It's a marathon, not a sprint and we all have taken two steps backward and one step forward. Don't beat yourself up.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you all for your words of encouragement. I did leave them there. this last friday night was great with actual conversation and joking. On saturday I went to a church breakfast and when I came back the kids and him were awake and the kids made some breakfast for themselves, He had worked late friday night and I hadn't seen any of yalls comments at the time. He had mentioned that he was wore out and was going to cook bacon and eggs. I wasn't going to cook him all that but offered to cook him some biscuits and gravy. he started in with some soft nitpicking and just rolled on down the hill of how I messed up the breakfast.
Now I knew he only took two biscuits and that he normally always eats a lot more but after hearing how bad they were I threw them and all the gravy away. He came in and seen it. was passive aggressive and then a bit later pitched a fit and monsterd at the kids. the kids and I left and a few hours later he took care of a chore I had asked him a few weeks ago to do and then went on the rest of the day like normal.
Sunday was great and when I got home from a store run he had washed his dishes. he seemed stressed but was good to me and the kids. today however when I got up I seen he was still sleeping. He likes to wake the kids up for school and watch a little tv so i just woke him up and let him wake the kids up. I went in the living room after getting my hair started and sat with my daughter for a sec. he then made a comment that this was their time, he gets them ready for school and I was intruding on that.That I have of course NEVER done anything to get them ready, when Yes he wakes them up and in the living room but i do teeth, shoes, cloths, showers, hair and lunches. (even his grandparents had told me when we lived with them between houses that he never did any of the kid work) So he kept on as I was leaving the room and I snapped a little. Told him That if I remember correctly I had been doing it all by myself while he was gone with his affair partner for a year. I know I shouldn't have but it just came out. So he had mad and cussed me out as I was walking away and then I thought to myself if I am intruding on him getting the kids ready for school that I wouldn't intrude at all.I got myself ready and got ready to go. he asked if I was going to do all the other stuff and I told him that I didnt realize I had been intruding and would leave that all to him and not mess with his system.
He got snippy but when I got to work he sent a long book of a txt with some apologies but also basically that yes he made some bad choices when he was gone (he was still home when he was cheating at first till I found out) but that the affair and me leaving was my fault. He did say he didn't mean to hurt my feeling and he just wanted some of his own time with the kids but that he handled it badly. But to be honest I dont think it was as much of remorse than it was him realizing he is going to have to do all that with two young kids. When he was gone and lived at his moms she took care of the kids when they were there and if not here his affair partner did so he knows it isn't what he wants to do.
But non the less at east a little half apology form him is more than what I have gotten in the past 17 months. I never responded to the txt and just left it. I used to try and justify myself and hope he would see my point but I just left it. I know I need to be better at this. And in answer to one of the questions he does sometimes acknowledge and say thank you for things. He will tell the kids to say thank you also and that diner was good or to help out.
I have noticed that he is starting to try and do something to redeem himself in small ways when he is ugly towards me. usually act of service in some small way other than words for sure. it is normally something that he should have done anyway but still an improvement from the man I have no doubt would have walked over my dead body to get to his girlfriend, so I am trying to look at the good and positive. i definitely see the one step forward with two back many days. But at the same time feel it is so close to a breakthrough some days.i dont want to give up just yet, if for nothing else it is keeping my kids from being exposed to a blatant affair and the toxic things that him and his little "friend were showing my little ones.
Thank you all for everything. some days it is just nice to be able to vent to people that understand and dont act like I am stupid for even staying.
The less you react to his monstering, the better. When he is complaining about something you are doing or have done, just say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and then walk away. The less you react to his behavior, the better. When we react to the bad behavior, it justifies to them why they feel the way they do about us at that particular time.
He is trying to find his way, but he doesn't realize that he is going about it the wrong way. He is reacting like a teenager who is flexing his muscles to see just how far he can go with you. Who knows? Maybe he's hoping that he will hit your anger mode and you'll show him the door. Whatever he does or says, do not help him out the door. If he wants to leave....he needs to do this all on his own.
You are doing great...you are not the one in crisis. Always remember, you are the prize and he needs to learn to respect you for the person that you are.
Hang in there. He is still acting out and will be for a while.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you. The worst part is I know I shouldn't and I have come so far in it. Sometimes something just hits wrong and I don't even notice I am till I did. I guess that is how it is for them sometimes too. This is the first time since him coming home I have said something about him leaving. I know throwing it in his face isn't going to help. After all he already knows what he did and is now just looking for reasons to justify it. I did good last night and this morning just making myself sparse and leaving early to go to the gym. I know I haven't been in this as long as others but 2 years before bd and affair and then 17 months after is beginning to wear on me. However I know a lot of people give up just before the break through so I have been "one more day"ing it every day hoping that will get through.
He literally told me after I told him I was going to go to the gym in the morning so he could have his special time with the kids in the morning without me distracting them or having to stay in my room. And that way I didn't have to try and squeeze my gym time in between dinner and bed time or miss it all together. i would think it would be a win win solution. Wrong!!! He said this followed by cussing me out and hanging up.
"You don't have to stay in your room. Just sleep in or take a shower. You are taking this to far and don't need to upset the kids by leaving in the mornings and don't need to spend that much time at the gym for an hour before work."
Where the heck am I supposed to sleep or take a shower? The kitchen?
You cant make this stuff up with them. It is almost funny. Almost!!!
I’d use less explaining and more just telling (and demonstrating, boundaries, enacting).
Something like:
I told him I was going to go to the gym in the morning. so he could have his special time with the kids in the morning without me distracting them or having to stay in my room. And that way I didn't have to try and squeeze my gym time in between dinner and bed time or miss it all together.
Remember his journey is still rather emotionally driven. His responses at times will be right out of left field. So, you do you.
H is like a teenager. He will test. He will push. He will rebel. Perfectly normal for a teenager, and quite infuriating too. However, when a 39 year old acts out in such a manner, it’s extra irksome.
Like a teen, a spouse will rebel and test, to see and ensure you are rock solid and stable. For an adolescent, they are ensuring their parent(s) is(are) strong and will always love them; giving them the support they need to leave the nest and find their way. For a growing up spouse it’s similar. They are ensuring the LBS’ stability and strength, and try to ascertain if they can be forgiven and accepted. Neither teen nor spouse fully realizes their path or need in their acting out. It’s just part of growing up.
In each case, adolescent or spouse, do not treat them like a child. Treat them as they deserve to be treated. Like an adult. With love and respect, while holding them accountable and enforcing boundaries for disrespectful behaviours.
You got this.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I agree with DnJ on everything that he posted. As I stated earlier, you do not need to explain why you are doing things. State what you are doing in a short, but nice manner, and go on about your business.
He is an emotional hot mess, i.e., just like teens behave. He is all over the map and no matter what you do or don't do, he's going to find fault with it. Why? Because he honestly does not know what he wants. Even though he is home, he is still all over the place and his settling down and become a mature man may take up to 18 months.
When he starts his rants say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and walk away. When you do that, he has no justification for what he's saying. As for him cussing you out on the phone...hang up. He is not respecting you. You do not need to be treated this way. You are the prize and he needs to realize this.
Would you accept this behavior from a real roommate? No. I don't think so. So, start looking at him as a roommate and treat like you would a roommate. Be respectful, but also be firm with your boundaries and what you will accept in the way of behavior.
You are the prize! Don't accept bad behavior. Walk away or hang up the phone and do not engage with him when he is acting out.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Well he cycled back bad this weekend. he hates my older son and when my son came over to visit me because he has been in a bad spot mentally he didn't knock when he got there and just came in the house. and he used the restroom(seriously). So he went on a rant and was saying all kinds of snide ugly remarks in front of me and the little kids. the kids and i were on our way out the door for church so we left in the middle of his fit. Later that day when we got home I politely asked him if he could not talk bad about my son in front of me and the littles. And that was all it took. twice durring the day he brought up us being done and him leaving. I sent the little kids to there room to watch tv and he just sat and screamed in my face so I just went to the bathroom so i didn't have to see him.
Then today once again he is coming around like a 6 year old boy with his head down trying to be nice. I dont understand how people can be like this. All I know for sure is I am glad I am not in his head.
Last edited by jessieht; 02/05/2409:44 PM. Reason: hit enter to early
Then today once again he is coming around like a 6 year old boy with his head down trying to be nice. I dont understand how people can be like this. All I know for sure is I am glad I am not in his head.
I don't understand either, and anyone should be glad not to be in a mind like his. Sometimes I feel guilty for the part I played in my divorce. Then I read your story, and my head explodes. I know I have issues, but my wife kicked me to the curb for much less than what he's doing to you. To be honest, if I were in your shoes I don't know how long I would last with him.
You are keeping your head above water and doing well in one of the most inhospitable situations imaginable. I am hoping for the best for you because you deserve it. Keep up the DB mindset because it WILL save your sanity and your future.
SF
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
All I know for sure is I am glad I am not in his head.
Amen!
It’s wild how they flip and flop, ping pong, about. Angry, sad, regretful, angry again. Such confusion. Such emotionally driven.
Originally Posted by jessieht
So he went on a rant and was saying all kinds of snide ugly remarks in front of me and the little kids. the kids and i were on our way out the door for church so we left in the middle of his fit.
Good. Removing yourself, leaving him with his feelings is perfect.
Originally Posted by jessieht
Later that day when we got home I politely asked him if he could not talk bad about my son in front of me and the littles. And that was all it took. twice during the day he brought up us being done and him leaving.
Yep, it’s surprising what can set them off. A politely worded asking him to not talk bad is a reasonable request. However, MLCers are emotionally driven, not rationally/reasonably driven. H lashed out as he likely took offence and blame from your request.
Instead, just tell him. No asking, therefore less wiggle room for him to find “reasons” to lash out.
“H, when you talk bad about son it makes me feel bad, and is disrespectful. When you speak like that, when you are disrespectful, I will simply go elsewhere. I will not talk with, nor listen to you when you are like that.”
Any rebuttal from H does not matter. You didn’t ask him to change. You simply told him what you are going to do if/when he is disrespectful. You placed the responsibilities and accountability upon his shoulders. All you do is take your actions accordingly.
H is a headstrong teenager. Treat him like one.
Stay strong. Kind and cordial, and with strong boundaries.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I am so sorry that you had to deal with the spoiled man/child. MLCers do this kind of stuff all of the time until they reach acceptance. They are operating on emotions only. They do not think like we do because they are emotionally driven. We would not think of raising heck about a family member not knocking and using the bathroom, but the MLCer will do it all of the time. I wasn't surprised to read how he behaved.
You did the right thing in removing yourself from his ranting. Do not sweep this kind of behavior under the rug. They are so predictable when this kind of behavior happens. First they blow up and then they come around looking like susie sad eyes wanting and hoping that they can find a way to make peace.
DnJ knows that I will agree with him 100% on the advice he is giving you. Set those boundaries and adhere to them. Do not waffle one bit. You can be kind and/or cordial, but you need to be firm when he acts out. They are teenagers even though they are far, far further along in age.
Again, I am so sorry he acted out.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'm putting this guidance from DnJ in a big (figurative) frame in my mind (and you should too Jessie):
“When you speak like that, when you are disrespectful, I will simply go elsewhere. I will not talk with, nor listen to you when you are like that.”
Any rebuttal from H does not matter. You didn’t ask him to change. You simply told him what you are going to do if/when he is disrespectful. You placed the responsibilities and accountability upon his shoulders. All you do is take your actions accordingly.
I was glad to hear that you removed the kids and then yourself from a rant you absolutely do not deserve. Well done. It makes me genuinely happy to see your progress. Keep it going in a positive direction for yourself and your kids.
I know this is all part of the MLC process but just needed a vent session.
To start off with I have been doing well. Have done some stuff for myself including a cosmetic procedure that I have wanted to do to fix something on me that has made me self conches for years. My husband was not happy about this and says I am vain and "stupid" for spending my money on it(our finances have always been separate so this will not affect him financially at all). At first I felt selfish for spending the money and making him angry but to be honest he was going to be angry anyways. Everyone that knows think he doesn't want me to have it done so that I look better and he is worried I will find someone else. I dont even know or care if that is his reason.
I did see while doing some stuff that confirmed he is still talking to the ow on the phone multiple times a day. I knew this in my gut but it wasn't ever confirmed till now. Which to me explains why he is so hateful towards me. I haven't told him I seen this. I have and am going as dim as I can at home but that seems to ramp him up a bit. It just seems so counter intuitive. I know this is fear based but I worry that with me going dim it will push him toward the ow more so than he is already. I would think it would me if i was in his situation but I guess I dont have mlc brain.
I have read everywhere not to confront to the fact you know they are still in contact and to just let it run and fall apart on its own, but for how long? I am not going to act rashly this time like at bd. I know there is a lot to consider like the fact that I hate not having my kids full time like when he was gone, but also dont want to live like this forever. I realize that 18 months from bd and 5 months home is not long in terms of mlc also.
His withdrawal has gotten a worse over the past month. He wouldn't even go to a friends house for our daughters birthday dinner. He said he didn't want to be around anyone. He has also started self victimizing with anything said or done saying we dont want him at home and non of us love him, he should just leave. Not sleeping hardly at all and just other odd stuff like whispering to himself and talking to himself a lot. and not in an external processing way. like full angry conversations with himself. Very paranoid and thinks everyone especially me are out to take hime for everything. the kids have also seen him crying a few times. Could this be the slide down to rock bottoms basement? I hate to see that for him but know it has to happen for him to start to walk out of it.
I think it is, but is this a normal progression of stages. It doesn't hurt me like it used to. I am pretty detached from taking it personal. ( I still fall into it sometimes) I do not give the reactions like I used to. Just tell him I hear him and understand and am sorry he feels that way. But do people really come back from stuff like this? It seems so hopeless that he will ever turn around or wake up.
I am glad you returned and gave an update. If the cosmetic procedure is what you wanted/needed and it makes you feel better about yourself...then it worked! You are absolutely correct, no matter what you did or didn't do, he would have been angry. He is just angry with himself and his situation.
As for not attending his daughter's birthday party...sounds very typical of a MLCer. Oh, yes, the poor me is playing in the background. Again, very typical and he's hoping that you will say that if he's that unhappy then leave. Don't put him out! If he wants out, he needs to be the one to take himself out that door.
Yes many of them do return to normal...but it takes a very long time. Some return to normal, others return to normal, but retain some of the habits they picked up while circling earth and others remain lost completely. It took my xh just about 23 years to finally admit that he was the one that walked out and destroyed his marriage. He admitted that he had been selfish, etc., and he even apologized for what he had done. I have no idea why, out of the blue, he decided to contact me because we had not been in contact with each other for many years. So, yes, some do wake up. How long will it take your h? Only the man upstairs knows the answer to the question.
You had doing great. You are learning not go dim and not react like you use to his words and actions. I'm proud of you! Keep up the good work!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you. Stuff just went down hill for him last night. i remained calm and collected. More screaming, foot stomping and door slamming with all of the "no one cares if I am around anyway". I didn't react to this and he yelled at our 8yo daughter that she was a quitter in front of everyone making her cry and left in the middle of her and my sons game only minutes after arriving. Then when he got home he sat in his truck and seemingly cried for about 20 min before coming in the house and then sat in the dark living room all by himself in silence. Then My daughter had a anxiety attack this morning and he was screaming about how ridiculous she was on the phone to me because he had to drive the mile and a half to school to talk and possibly pick her up. It just seems to be on a downward spiral that he is grasping at anything he can to keep from falling. I know I can not go down there with him and he needs it to turn around but it is killing to see.
I have read everywhere not to confront to the fact you know they are still in contact and to just let it run and fall apart on its own, but for how long?
A crisis is a horrible thing. Affairs need to run their course. Trying to break them up usually leads to an “us against the world” strengthening of their illicit bond.
Affairs are based in fantasy. And it is near impossible to kill a fantasy. Why? Because it is not real. It is in one’s mind. Reality, consequences, interventions, slaps in the face, whatever, all fall short and can be, will be, ignored. MLCers are running. Hard and fast. Until their pain of keeping such illicit behaviour alive outweighs their pain of ending it.
As for how long.
Originally Posted by jessieht
He wouldn't even go to a friends house for our daughters birthday dinner. He said he didn't want to be around anyone. He has also started self victimizing with anything said or done saying we dont want him at home and non of us love him, he should just leave. Not sleeping hardly at all and just other odd stuff like whispering to himself and talking to himself a lot. and not in an external processing way. like full angry conversations with himself. Very paranoid and thinks everyone especially me are out to take hime for everything. the kids have also seen him crying a few times. Could this be the slide down to rock bottoms basement? I hate to see that for him but know it has to happen for him to start to walk out of it.
No one can know how long it will last. The crisis person has their demons and trauma(s) to work through. They have their substandard toolbox of coping mechanisms to first build up. And they have all their running behaviours (affairs) to face as well. Quite a mountain to summit.
That being said, your H is exhibiting a significant slide downward. This is indicative of slowing the running and starting to look inward. Perhaps this behaviour will last, perhaps it will pause for a time and restart. H’s progress is mostly internal and hidden from view. To see such significant suffering leads credence that there is something pretty big going on inside.
You are correct, H needs to hit rock bottom. He is on his way by the sounds of it. Nasty stuff, isn’t it? Hard to watch. Hate to see it. However, it’s needed. Be kind and cordial and leave him to God’s hands.
Originally Posted by jessieht
[I] just tell him I hear him and understand and am sorry he feels that way.
Good for you.
Perhaps a tip, don’t tell him you understand. Just let him know you hear.
Folks in deep depression have a very hard time believing that anyone understands how they feel. In fact, most times they do not want to be understood; they’re not ready to be understood. As such, statements of understanding usually have a detrimental effect and push the depressed person away. Just be empathic and let him speak and be heard. And of course, stick to your boundaries on disrespect.
Originally Posted by jessieht
do people really come back from stuff like this? It seems so hopeless that he will ever turn around or wake up.
Yes folks do come back from this.
I believe that near everyone can come back. It’s a matter of do they have enough sand left in their hourglass. Some take years, some take decades, and some run out of time.
How, or more accurately, who they return as is unknown.
A crisis is a midlife transition gone way off the rails. A midlife transition leads to inner changes, just as all life’s stages/transitions do. Finding their way through their crisis reconciles long ago trauma(s) and transitions, and has them growing up from when they were emotionally stunted. A person exiting their crisis, or any transition, is not who they were when they entered it.
Most folks, crisis or otherwise, exit more mellow, refined, easy going. Some, especially those with more life regrets than accolades/accomplishments (a trend that society is seemingly on) exit more bitter and angry. It’s pretty easy to see those who have found peace and contentment is their golden years, and those who have not.
Interestingly, us LBS, with all the pain and sorrow and horrific events, usually sees the golden opportunity placed before them. I think most grow, and become whole and healed, and find peace and contentment from their most, at first, unwanted situations.
Originally Posted by jessieht
Stuff just went down hill for him last night. i remained calm and collected. More screaming, foot stomping and door slamming with all of the "no one cares if I am around anyway". I didn't react to this and he yelled at our 8yo daughter that she was a quitter in front of everyone making her cry and left in the middle of her and my sons game only minutes after arriving. Then when he got home he sat in his truck and seemingly cried for about 20 min before coming in the house and then sat in the dark living room all by himself in silence. Then My daughter had a anxiety attack this morning and he was screaming about how ridiculous she was on the phone to me because he had to drive the mile and a half to school to talk and possibly pick her up. It just seems to be on a downward spiral that he is grasping at anything he can to keep from falling. I know I can not go down there with him and he needs it to turn around but it is killing to see.
(((Hugs)))
Most MLCers become terrible parents. They are so consumed and lash out/ignore everyone and everything. Especially those who go against their narrative.
Oh my goodness, the stuff my XW did to our kids. She, oddly, blamed and attacked them much more than me. Stalking the kids, arguing, seeing her own daughter as a rival, trying to pick up/flit with the boys at the high school track meet, yelling at son, ignoring another son’s birthday, just to name a few. Crazy stuff!
This last weekend we had a birthday party for my Dad, son, and DIL, eleven of us there, lots of fun. Some stories came up about old times with Mom after BD. One was when she went to the grocery store where my youngest son and daughter worked (all four of my kids worked there over the years) and was digging through the Christmas oranges. She was opening the boxes to find the tasty ones. She professed could see the aura of the oranges. So, there she was, multiple boxes open, picking, examining, and moving the oranges about to make one good box of oranges. Of course, can’t forget when she went shopping in only some very short shorts and a bra, or did her lawn mowing job at 10:00pm in pink thigh high leggings, bra, and work boots. The noise woke up her grass mowing client and she was told to not mow at night. lol. So much wild crazy stuff over these years!
Some advice I got when I first got here and I really took to heart: It only takes one strong stable parent.
In my situation it was very clear that Mom was not Mom anymore. She threw the kids away. She wanted no responsibility for them, financial or otherwise. Certainly heartbreaking. Yet I, the kids, we moved forward and healed.
MLCers have the attention span of a gnat. They forget appointments, miss birthdays, and so on. For anything critical I’d not leave it to H. Make arrangements to ensure kids are picked up or looked after or whatever.
The yelling at them, and wild behaviours of Dad, is a source of difficult conversations. Be open and honest, and age appropriate of course. Kids need answers and will find them elsewhere if we do not offer/provide them. The internet, their friends, their imagination, are some vectors of such “answers” and explanations. It’s better if you are involved. Lead and they will follow. Gently steer. Be their living example.
You are doing really well. Keep it up.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
WOW!!! the mowing and shopping in a bra story made me laugh a bit. It is odd because I remember a time my dad a marine corps veteran went through a time of wearing very short cut of nasty ratty jean shorts and walking with a cain when he didnt even need a cain.(my mom now tells me that is when he was going through an MLC). So it made me laugh when my Husband also a marine vet started wearing THE SAME SHORTS!!! it is so embarrassing and he never met my dad so it was a total coincidence. This is a man that was always pressed and starched and when this started he would wear these shorts to christmas dinner. the frays on them hang down to his knees but they are much much to short. He is cutting down on wearing them now but they still make there way out in public some days.
DnJ and I have, like all of the other posters, have experienced some very difficult things when it comes to MLCers. They do not operate logically. Everything is emotional for them. They are like 13 year olds who have hormones going nuts full throttle or better yet, 2 year olds that are going through that period of time. They are depressed and do not understand why they feel the way they do. They lash out at others because they are the people they feel safest lashing out at. None of this is personal towards you and your child.
Now about his behavior towards your daughter. When he is doing that crazy making stuff and saying those things to her, call him on it. Do not allow him to brow beat your child. This is exactly the type of behavior he experienced as a child and you do not want your child to feel less than good. He is projecting on to you and your daughter what happened to him. Call him on that behavior as it is not acceptable and then you and your daughter walk away.
They truly become the mirror image of the person you love and knew, i.e., the exact opposite. In his own way, he maybe he's hoping you will toss him out. He needs to leave on his own so that he can't point the finger at you for putting him out.
Hang in there! I am so sorry he's acting out and saying those things to your daughter. I pray that this weekend will be quieter for you and your daughter.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
DnJ and I have, like all of the other posters, have experienced some very difficult things when it comes to MLCers. They do not operate logically. Everything is emotional for them. They are like 13 year olds who have hormones going nuts full throttle or better yet, 2 year olds that are going through that period of time. They are depressed and do not understand why they feel the way they do. They lash out at others because they are the people they feel safest lashing out at. None of this is personal towards you and your child.
Can any of this beahaviour be a sign of narcissistic personality disorder. It's based on stunted growth at age of 2 where they had a problem with lack of affection in early formative years. They basically have a hard time developing their own identity and create a false sense of self, aka a mask. They project their inner selves onto partners and treat others as objects or sources of supply to feed their ego. They shower their partners with affection in earlier stages and thrive on the honeymoon phase. When the relationship gets further down the line and a deeper bond is needed they tire of their partner as they start seeing their flaws and the image they created of their partner from early on doesn't match the person in front of them. This is when they begin demoralizing, devaluing their partner until they can find a new source of affection or supply. They tend to discard someone no matter how long they've been together and start building up the new partner. It's a cycle for them. Dr. Ramani and Dr Sam vaknin have great videos explaining the psychology and the behaviors of someone with NPD. It feels to me a lot of us are on the same boat and we are dealing with people who are innately broken and lack empathy for others, their world revolves around their needs and they see themselves as flawless.
MLCers can display many different types of disorders: narcissistic personality, borderline personality disorder, etc. However, if the "symptoms" are only showing up during the crisis, that does not mean that they are permanent. MLC is all about emotions, traumas and the biggest player in all of this is depression. They are out there seeking something/anything that will make them feel better. They do not realize that happiness comes from within and not from outside things. They will continue to try different things just to have a few moments of peace. MLC could come from emotional, mental and physical abuse. Abandonment is another factor in MLC. If their home life was not stable or they were not recognized for their accomplishments, even if they were small accomplishments, this can set them up for a crisis. Siblings getting more attention and being treated better can also fester for many years. All of this stuff is stuffed down from childhood until one day something triggers the questions of is this what I want to do with the rest of my life question. They begin to question their lives and think that there is something better out there, i.e., the grass is greener on the other side.
We all go through transitions, i.e., ages, 13 early 20's, 30's, 40's, etc. If they are not able to navigate those transitions, then they will have to revisit them and their childhood at a later date. The some of the triggers that can set a full blown crisis into motion are: illness of a parent or a serious illness/injury of the MLCer, illness of a friend, death of a close relative or friend, change in jobs, promotions, demotions, loss of jobs, having children, children growing up, divorce. Once the crisis is set in motion, it is best to allow it to run the complete course. If the MLCer is interrupted and snapped back to reality, they will experience the crisis again at a later time and it will be far worse than what is happening presently.
I studied MLC for many years, I spoke to many who had gone before me who had to deal with MLC, and I read every article and book I could find to better understand what they go through and how to deal with the behavior. There is absolutely nothing we can do to speed up the process, they move at a snail's pace. It took years for the crisis to become full blown and it will take time for them to return to reality.
People are looking for answers and how to fix the issues. We are all fixers, however, we can't fix this for them. We didn't break them, therefore we can't fix them. They are the only ones that can do that. This is the time to work on yourself. If there are things that you know you need to improve on, now is the time to work on them. A word of caution, if you are going to make some changes, the changes need to become permanent and not just to get your spouses back. They will test you to see if those changes are permanent or just a ploy to get their attention.
Keep the focus on you and your family. Listen closely to what your MLCer says. They are good at talking and if you listen closely...you may hear some things that will tell you what they are feeling. Please try not to take what they say personally, sometimes it is projection of what they are feeling, but most often it is what they have done or are planning to do.
If you have not visited the MLC Forum, I would suggest you do. There is a lot of valuable information there about MLC. Here is a link about MLC and Depression that might be helpful to you.
Last edited by job; 03/03/2403:05 PM. Reason: Added link
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
The clothing, their mannerisms, heck their ability to do math, devolves or time travels back to that age of their emotional trauma. My XW is basically her 18 year old self. Just far more brash and rebellious. So they a really troublesome teenager with a large bank account and the legal age to do whatever they feel like.
The other two personalities of XW that appear are her as 13 and 7. Over the years I’ve pieced together those ages correlate to two traumatic events involving a male relative. A man whom she showed an odd trepidation towards during our last family vacation to see her grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins. (Her parents tossed her out of their lives when she was 18. They then cut all ties with her and I, and our future kids, when we got married. We never saw them again after that.) Who knew her trepidations was something stirring within her. The poor gal has some horrible demons.
I’ve found that if I pressured XW she’d fall back, shrink, withdrawal into former selves. Judgemental or contentious conversation from me and XW becomes herself of 13. Further pressing and she falls further to a young girl of seven. It’s wild and completely spooky! On one occasion I was arguing with her about some finances and she withdrew all the way to her seven year old self. The poor girl couldn’t even multiple anymore. On the flip side, she can be very happy. Days after BD, after tossing everyone away and moving in with OM, she showed up at the house to proudly show me a $100 cheque she got for agreeing to do snow shovelling for a person over the winter. She was so ecstatic! She had the world by the tail.
There were a few more incidents of her and I clashing where she’d withdrawal, shrinking to a young wee girl. Very sad thing to witness. I ceased such interactions and just let her be. Gave her to God. My goodness, it was so clear: I didn’t break her, and I certainly cannot fix her.
So, I just responded to her demands of separating and divorce. Let her lead at her pace. Never blocked her path, nor paved it either. Heck, her lawyer did more preventative measures forcing her to see two financial planners and a psychiatrist. Her lawyer even had her sign a waiver that she was going against his advice. She also had some surgery during this time along with a 3 week recovery period. Even with all that, the separation agreement was signed and done by 60 days after BD.
XW also filed for divorced a month before the one year cooldown period had elapsed. She even paid for it. Looking back it is kind of funny, I had gone to my lawyer to alter my will and he met me thinking I was there because of the divorce. I had no idea what he was talking about. Turns out I was going to be served divorce papers in the next day or two at work. My gosh, that would have been something. I was still very much hurt back then, it was only 11 months after that 3 hour BD at Thanksgiving.
Anyhow, I read over her divorce demands which contained nothing. No changes from the separation agreement. Just a divorce. She even wrote yet another letter, so two attached forms stating that I had sole custody of the kids. Complete responsibility for them. She wanted nothing to do with them. Really heartbreaking.
I asked some questions. Like could I stop this. Turns out, no. It only takes one to divorce. And it cannot be stopped. Contesting only applies to the terms of the divorce. Since XW had none, paid for it, waived custody, and so on, I could only sign. And even that didn’t matter. If I didn’t sign, the court would still adopt it. So I signed and sent the form into the bureaucratic legal machinery. Divorce is frighteningly efficient, especially compared to other legal things.
Interestingly, I visited S25 yesterday, we were talking about his master physics research and learnings. Quantum and computational physics; son has such passion. And is brilliant. Anyhow, he brought up that Mom had been doing her frantic pestering texts to speak with him. So he did talk to her. She, like always, had nothing to say. However, during her vague conversation she accused son of having no goals. She said, she has goals, like when she mows a lawn (she cleans a few houses and mows some lawns as employment). All son’s “thinking stuff” (yes that’s what she called it) is beyond her, and not really a goal.
Son and I laughed. My goodness! He is very goal oriented and driven. He is on track upon his 12 year university plan towards a PHD. What a goal! What drive!
He and a buddy solved some complicated problem a while back. This late night breakthrough of their’s, hours and hours something like 16 hours, was life altering. Son spoke with such passion of their work and struggle. He showed me - over forty, yes 40 pages of equations and work until they took a derivative of a derivative, got an identify of something or other, along with a bunch of other head nodding stuff as he is way on another level, and they actually found not only the solution, but how to actually solve such problems. A true eureka moment. As son said, that, along with other such moments, will remain with him forever.
Pffft! No goals.
Speaking of university, my eldest son has decided to apply to masters for architecture.
Hmmm, I seemed to have wondered off onto an update of my life. Sorry about that jess.
Point being, MLCers, they dress, think, feel, and behave like angry, brash, rebellious teenagers. They see the world as such. Like they are that old. Like they are/were back then. They weren’t married, didn’t have kids, etc. It’s how and why they have little to no empathy towards us and their family. They do know, somewhat, of when they are, yet they don’t feel it. They are consumed and feel their long ago lives and pain. Really wild stuff. Really had to fathom until you see it, witness it first hand.
Hope you have a wonderful Sunday.
D
Now, I should probably copy some of this over to my thread. Sheesh, what am I doing rambling on over here. It’s not like I don’t have a thread of my own. Just started typing and continued. Wow, kind of good I realized I guess. My my my, imagine if I just kept typing away. I’d likely put some humorous post post post speaking to the post I just posted.
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you so much for all of this, and I am so glad to hear your update. those are great plans and accomplishments for your son. My son worked with me at my company for a while and my husband went off on him about how he wasn't doing anything with his life working at an event coordinating company. funny thing is is that we both make a significant amount more than my husband. they are nutty and only see their view.
I do think the pulling away is helping me in my situation a lot. My Husband has accused me of trying to "turn the kids against him." All because the kids wanted to curl up in bed with me and watch tv in my room. I guess he finely learned if he wants us with him he can ask or act like he wants us. the kids and I got home from a game the other day and my son asked to go and watch tv in my bed. My husband waited for about 30 minutes and said "How about we have a movie night in the living room with all of us? And we can let Mama pick the movie because she doesn't get to pick the show a lot." We had a good night and I made sure I said how much I liked us all being together. It is odd to me that just with majorly pulling back and not trying to talk at all has helped.I do know he is still in contact with the ap, and there have been some days that I know there has been some drama between them and she is looking at my social media quite often. I dont think she knows i can see this because she has a burner account but she is doing it from her phone so it shows me it is her phone number. lol. I am hoping for her to go crazy on him enough to teach him a good lesson to never do this again.
Last edited by DnJ; 03/08/2404:55 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
My son worked with me at my company for a while and my husband went off on him about how he wasn't doing anything with his life working at an event coordinating company. funny thing is that we both make a significant amount more than my husband. they are nutty and only see their view.
Yes, their view is pretty narrow. And they do tend to tune out, ignore, discard, anything that goes counter to their view/script/narrative.
Three of my kids own houses with mortgages, and one is renting until his phd program location is figured out. They all have incomes greater than Mom, most far greater. Married/engaged, strong relationships and friends. Yet, XW/Mom feels she can/should criticize and dispense life advice.
You know, my XW actually told me, while acknowledging my retirement, that my career path was wrong. I should’ve had multiple different jobs/careers, like a dozen, over the years. Staying with one company for 33 years is rare and basically dumb. Haha. lol. I simply agreed to disagree with her.
Originally Posted by jessieht
I do think the pulling away is helping me in my situation a lot.
Good. Keep doing more of what works. And of course, less of what doesn’t.
Originally Posted by jessieht
I do know he is still in contact with the ap, and there have been some days that I know there has been some drama between them and she is looking at my social media quite often. I dont think she knows i can see this because she has a burner account but she is doing it from her phone so it shows me it is her phone number. lol. I am hoping for her to go crazy on him enough to teach him a good lesson to never do this again.
LOL. Can see her phone number. So much for her stealth surfing.
Affairs usually have quite a bit of drama. They’ll overlook it for a while, then kaboom! Crazy comes out. Stay well clear of the affair, it’s drama, etc. Any involvement only paints a target on you. Let them feel all their misguided choices. Perhaps some life lessons will be acquired.
People will work hard against changing. It usually requires hitting rock bottom, having the pain of continuing out weigh the pain of changing.
I think you handled H’s tantrum and then the movie night really well. Boundaries. H needs to ask politely. Nicely done with thanking H afterwards; reinforcing the good behaviour.
Have a great weekend.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
So Can yall tell me how bad I messed up or not? Sorry for the TMI.
H has been home for almost 7 months. he has been better but definitely still mlc withdrawal. two weeks ago I got the "I don think you ugly but I am not attracted to you right now". well a little over a month ago I did something for myself. He was angry about it but I went and got a tummy tuck and breast implants. nothing crazy just fixing myself up after three kids. We have always had separate finances so this wasn't impacting him at all. But he was still angry and said it was stupid. well two days after the "I am not attracted to you" comment he started hitting on me big time. constantly talking and asking about my surgery and how happy I was and looked good. this kept on getting more and more the last two weeks. Then on Sunday he Kept on making sexual jokes and making excuses to sit by me or have any contact. before this he would contort all over the place to avoided having any touch or anything close contact. Like I had lepercy it was so bad Well then he ask for a back rub! i did and kept it at that but he was definitely pushing but without actually making a move.We spent like two hors on his and then he offered me one. and the whole time he had his hand holding on to my leg softly. My head was spinning. Not how I thought my day would go at all. then when I said a little something about it he projected it all on my like this was all my idea for sex and that isnt what he was trying to do. (trust me there was not question) So at that time I luckily got a call to have to go pick up my daughter so it got me away to think about it for a bit. I dont want to be used but also dont want to shut off any toward movement from him. he has been helping around the house and being super kind over that last little bit of time. So later that night it all started again and I didnt stop it. He made sure and asked if I was sure I was ok with it which I appreciated. It was awkward because my mind was flashing with so many thoughts of good and bad. He sat on the edge of the bed clearly wanting to say something but stopped himself a few times. I didnt ask any questions. then he went to do other house stuff and went to bed in his bed and a little later I could here him sniffling like he was crying. So I dont know if he just felt guilty or what. But now the last two days he is back to really withdrawn again. Is this normal. I mean I know he is and will be in mlc for a while and am not taking it to personal (actually trying to twist it in my head that I was more using him for pleasure than letting myself feel used). I could tell the whole day that even thou His plan was clear to me he was scared to make the actual moves. I am just trying to keep on like I have been but didnt know if it was normal that they withdraw after coming a lot closer for a bit. Should I have said no? I am not sure of anything any more.
Hi Jessie. As you may suspect, especially if you re-read various posts out here about MLCers, they are predictably unpredictable. There is little if any point to trying to figure them out. Your H will be all over the board, not unlike a teenager who wants everything...and then nothing....who is in a good mood.... and then a bad mood....or a chilled-out mood. You're unlikely to find good reasons as to why. I discourage you from trying to figure out why he is behaving this way and stay focused on yourself and your kids.
To me, it feels like too much of a convenient turnaround given the timing of your "enhancements". It still seems like he doesn't know what he wants and, until you see more sustained and consistent change from him, you should continue work on yourself. Think about what you would need to see from him for a solid period in terms of real change....before I'd even THINK too seriously about sex again.
It is normal for people to come close...and then withdraw...they just aren't confident in themselves or what they want....thus the idea that they're trying to have their cake and eat it to...and get flustered when those urges are denied or stopped by their spouse/partner.
I hope your recovery from the procedures goes well and that you get the personal boost in your well-being that you're hoping for.
I agree with MrP 100%. Your h is still all over the place and he doesn't have a clue what he wants. There is absolutely no way to figure out what he's thinking because the wires in his brain are scrambled and just a mess right now. Yes, they do cry and he may have been crying because he doesn't understand why he feels the way he does.
I think he's testing the waters with you. The comments he makes are to see how you will respond and what you will say. Yes, he will turn around and say you initiated sex. He doesn't want to admit that it was him.
Until he is consistent with his actions and his words match his actions...he is still very much a mixed up teenager.
Keep working on you. Allow the man upstairs to work on him. Also, the changes you make for yourself...keep them consistent and permanent. Time to keep that focus on you and your family. There is no way to determine when he will finally come out of it. It could take another year or so. You are now on his clock and his time is very, very slow.
Hang in there...never doubt yourself. You doing very well for having him under the same roof with you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
MrP is spot on - MLCers are predictably unpredictable. An LBS interacting, especially intimate interacting, must maintain minimizing their expectations regarding their mixed up crisis spouse.
Originally Posted by jessieht
he has been helping around the house and being super kind over that last little bit of time. So later that night it all started again and I didnt stop it. He made sure and asked if I was sure I was ok with it which I appreciated. It was awkward because my mind was flashing with so many thoughts of good and bad. He sat on the edge of the bed clearly wanting to say something but stopped himself a few times. I didnt ask any questions. then he went to do other house stuff and went to bed in his bed and a little later I could hear him sniffling like he was crying. So I dont know if he just felt guilty or what. But now the last two days he is back to really withdrawn again. Is this normal.
Yep. Pretty normal behaviour for someone in crisis.
Remember, H is driven by his emotions. He felt better, was helpful around the house and kind. Felt close to you. Felt the old love. Initiated sex and even more importantly initiated intimacy. Being close to you.
And, emotions stirred within him again. Regrets, guilt, shame, and still the unresolved feelings of the past childhood events, all swirled within him, again. Albeit, less than bomb drop levels. There is forward progress after all. Where it all finishes is unknown, though I put H on a positive journey still.
His seeming to want to say something and then stopping himself; you are absolutely correct in that assessment and in how you handled it. Let him lead. H is on his path and on his timeline. Pressure, pushing for answers will propel H in the opposite direction. So, well done!
Don’t worry, H will bring it up when he feels safe. And don’t take it personally, H’s fear and feelings are his, and not because of you. It’s all part of his growth and healing.
Originally Posted by jessieht
Should I have said no? I am not sure of anything any more.
You are doing fine.
Sex. Cake eating. Like most things it’s not black and white, it’s gray. And it’s situation specific.
Like everything here, you are first and foremost. In that, when first starting out, and not well detached and such, cake eating and alike is off the table. In time, and in some situations, cake eating becomes less so. It’s the disrespectfulness of it, more than the deed. If that makes sense.
Sex is pleasurable. It’s ok to enjoy it. It can also form and reinforce a bond.
Of course, OW is still in the picture. To what extent, I’m not sure. Breaking up is hard. However, you seem ok with the activities between H and you. Like I said, situation specific, some situations are wildly high risk - STDs for example.
Lots of MLCers will not let go of a branch until they have another one. That would include a possible returning. Jilting H’s advancements would likely not be beneficial to your goals. Likely-wise, definitely do not be used. As I said, you are first and foremost. If you want and enjoy H’s intimate company and he is not using you, it’s ok.
Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t. And ensure you do with you, your health, your welfare - emotional, physical, spiritual - in mind first!
Keep a handle on your expectations and/or reading too much into H if/when you continue to be intimate. Right now, where H is at, such closeness holds different meaning to H than it does you.
It’s very common for the MLCer to make forward progress, to peek out of the tunnel, to get scared or such, and retreat back in to their crisis tunnel. Each time they emerge, especially without reprisals and judgement from the LBS, their retreat lasts less and less. Eventually, hopefully, being able to exit their consuming torment permanently.
Your part, is like you are doing. Upholding boundaries on disrespectful behaviour. Being kind and cordial. Living and loving your life. And letting H run to catch up.
You are the prize. You are the lighthouse. You are the leader, the living example. Let him pursue you. Let him become worthy of you.
Never sell yourself short.
Have an awesome day jess!
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you all so much for your words of wisdom and encouragement. He showed good emotion and even some empathy (of course this was after being caught in a lie) but non the less more than I have got since this started. And of course is cycling back this last week to jerk mode. Hopefully those cycles will get less and less and shorter like they have been. I remember seeing a thread that amyc posted about here story when she was in her mlc. Does anyone have a link to that thread. I cant seem to find it now. or any other threads of people coming out of their mlc. It helps me a lot mentally to read these stories.
)
around. Wise people.