H EW possibly DBing and I’m losing the battle

[Pattnee5]

Oh Kanga I feel for you. I have been there, that horrible feeling, that immense pain right in your chest. Wanting to stay in bed all day, not eating or sleeping. It really is the worst thing I have ever been through. But I survived. And you will too. One day at a time. Just remember to breathe.
Firstly stop beating yourself up with what you could or should have done. Unfortunately us trying to “nice “ them back never works. We all resist the advice on here and think we know best. But there’s a fine line between being nice and a doormat. You need to drop the emotional rope. It’s when you will finally start to feel better. I have no idea what one magical thing made me do it but moreso a collection of anything and everything. I had my kids so that sort of forced me to get up every single day and do things even though I just wanted to stay in bed. So try and do 3 things for yourself every single day, mute your phone to H when you are doing those things, start a new hobby, join a group, anything that gives you a reason to drag yourself out of bed every day and move. Do you have a dog? I found my dog really helped me. She is an energetic 2 year old now but she showed u conditional love, kept me company at night, and made me walk her daily. She really was my best therapy. To me, it sounds like H wants to keep the door open with you, just in case his plan doesn’t
Work out. If he’s open to MC then I imagine that’s good, ( my H wasn’t and still isn’t) but I am not sure how someone who isn’t really religious any more will
Feel in a religious counselling session.
Don’t feel pressured into reaching out to H because he said he would leave it up to you. Sounds like he’s baiting you really. Leave him, step back,
Let him miss you. He knows that you still
Love him and want the marriage to work. You don’t need to remind him all the time. Let him miss you and see what life is like without you dropping everything for him. Personally I
Wouldn’t call him. See him at counselling have a chat and then go your seperate ways.
Be a bit mysterious let him wonder what you’re up to what you’re doing. And in the meantime don’t let him know you’re internally combusting-that’s what we do in our private time he doesn’t need to know that. Take the time and breather from him for YOU. Because you need it. We get so dragged down by the H in these situations. As females we want to fix and nurture and want to know every single emotion and talk everything out constantly. Step back and take a breath and just focus on you for now.
And NEVER be ashamed of slip ups along the way. That’s how we learn and grow through this. I did my fair share of incredibly silly things. It’s how we learn and grow from this. One day at a time. Keep posting. I often found much better advice on here from the vets than through counselling because it’s likeminded people who have walked your shoes. We all want our WAS to snap out of it, we all question and over analyse anything and everything we ever did and do. They make us believe we are so in the wrong. Just try and shelve the “what’s going to happen in my marriage” for now and work on one day at a time try to live in the present and honestly just do what you need to get through. It’s all very up in the air and there’s no possibly way to try and guess how this will play out. Just one day at a time. Try and conserve your energy for you

[DnJ]

Good Morning Kanga

I told H that and that I don’t want a divorce. He told me he doesn’t want one neither, but of course I don’t believe him. He has told the pastor this and my father and told them both that he loves me and wants to grow old with me. Yet, he still maintains that he hasn’t done anything wrong, has no feelings for XW and is talking about the kids only. I say BS… as he has been hiding the contact and pursuing her and neglecting our M and picking fights. I just can’t go back to the way things were, and I know he is trying to pull me back into it because it feels good for him. It is so hard to think clearly and not get caught up in the gaslighting. H has almost had me convinced I’m overreacting. Both my father and FIL have said I have to trust. What BS… I fought back and said no, H has to be trustworthy and put them in their place.

Well done!

Gaslighting is devilishly tricky and wicked. An insidious tacit to make someone doubt their own thoughts, feelings, and values. Very well done standing up to it.

This is so hard. H has been telling me he loves me, but no remorse. He then gets mean and sends nasty texts. I have to say this time, there haven’t been as many nasty texts. H rings me and expects to engage in conversation like nothing has happened, even though I have told him I don’t want to talk to him. I have also told him, I don’t want to talk about our R.

H has quite a bit of work to do on himself. You are wisely looking to his actions and not his words - says he loves you, yet no expression of remorse. Attempts to act like nothing has happened. Stick to your path.

But what to do now?

I just don’t know where to go from here and how to do the contact or what to do with the lack of it. How to keep the door open a little bit, but not too much that he thinks he can get it all back his way again.

Where do I go from here with communication so I’m not offending but protecting myself. And what do I do about MC?

Answers will come in time. The good thing, you don’t need answer any of this today. Honest. You don’t. Let it go for right now. (((Hug)))

Consider your boundaries. You’ve identified disrespectful behaviour and conversations from H. You know when that is. Implement a boundary - for you. Not to fix H, rather to maintain your mental and emotional health.

Boundaries are not offensive. They are a pre-planned thought out response to disrespectful and/or hurtful behaviour. You are responding to H’s behaviours. You are not seeking out some manner of retribution.

Focus on you. GAL. Live. Do not fret about the lack of communication. Stick to your guns and path, for you deserve to be treated well.

You keep the door open by living your best version of you. A lighthouse shines because they are. Kanga, find your strong deep foundations, shine because you are wonderful person, and live.

I know it currently hurts. A lot! Yet, you have fortitude and strength. You’ve not toppled. You still stand strong is life’s storms. That is a lighthouse.

Today, I cleaned up the house and folded the washing. It is slightly getting better each day. I wake with dread when I realise what has happened. Firmly out of the fog and I can’t go back. I know that after reading 100’s of postings that I can only go forward.

Keep at it. Keep moving forward, one day at a time.

I honestly want him to snap out of it and have an epiphany. Am I wrong in any way? I’ve tried so hard since July not to react to him and be the best version of myself. Why didn’t it work? Why did he show so much neglect for our M?

You didn’t break H, therefore you cannot fix him.

The future is thankfully unknown and unwritten. Let it unfold.

Keep focusing on you, and living your best life.

D

[KangaB]

Pattnee thank you so much for giving me such tender advice!! Gentle yet strong. I’m very raw at the moment so it’s sunk in. I’ve read and re-read. It’s humbling to know there are people from all over the world that give so generously here and been through the pain. Oh the pain… I read somewhere on here that it’s the hard road that leads to the easy path. Not sure if I have this right. I know I can’t turn back now. It just has to change. I’m a shell of myself and I know H doesn’t like himself at the moment too.

It’s been another tough day. I miss H so much. However, I’ve done more today than I have in a couple of weeks. I did more than just having to. I mowed and mowed the lawn until I couldn’t do it any longer. I spent some quality work time with my elderly father. I volunteer for an organisation on an Tues night and helped someone. It’s been a bit of a Spiritual experience today.

It was hard… I wanted to call H and ruminated over what is going on. The Pastor reached out to he last night and I organised a time for MC. I promised I would text H over the next 24 hours about it and not straight away. So I text late this afternoon and let him know the time and if he didn’t want to go at that time, then he could organise it with the Pastor and let me know. I asked myself whether I was reaching out for the right reason or was it that I just wanted to be in touch? It was because I wanted to be in touch and then I asked myself how will I cope if he doesn’t reply? I was in so much pain, I prayed instead and then he replied. He replied with ‘that sounds good’ and asked me for the address of where to go and then thanked me. It was perfect because I wanted him to meet me there and not expect to be at my place beforehand. At the same time, I was secretly a little offended that he didn’t want to be at my place beforehand.

H had been telling me that he loves me over the past few weeks, via text and phone calls and I’ve been good not to say it as one of my 180’s. I felt compelled to text after his co operation today to say I love you too. It felt good and he replied with a I love you too. We left it at that.

I am laying very low and don’t wish to talk to H. I have nothing to say other than wanting to spew my hurt. It would not work. So I have to stay with the texts and I’ve decided to keep the door open a little bit. Contacting him when I need to and leaving it on a good note and staying away. It’s exhausting having to think in a different way all the time. I’m realising how far down I’ve gone in confidence and esteem. This is what respect for oneself feels like and I think part of the pain is realising that I had allowed H to walk all over me and not only him, but his XW and other members of his family for a long time. XW is the symptom. I’m slowly awakening to the fact that I gave into H’s way long ago and have been enabling him for a really long time. Which leads onto replying to DnJ.

Kanga

[KangaB]

DnJ… I’ve been spurred on by what you said. First, I have never challenged my FIL and have always thought of him as being a bit of bully. It was scary to say what I said because he yelled at me, but I’m glad I did. My father is a gentle man, but he is a man’s man and it was good to say what I did to him as well.

The reminders to GAL. I’ve read your replies in the past too. It is essentially the same message. You all say it with patience without letting the ball drop. Gentle and consistent pressure.

Sometimes I want to run from DB because it’s hard. I have to walk through this and I’m willing. It’s scary and sad and I don’t like change to begin with.

I read all of it, I need it… as I’ve said I don’t want to go back to the way it was. I have to be so strong because H is so professional in his controlling and gaslighting ways. One false move such as a phone call at the wrong time, he will know that he has me back to where he wants me.

I don’t want that anymore. When I was mowing today, I realise too that a lot of the pain is in the in between letting go absolutely and hanging on still. It’s woeful.

I do appreciate your replies.

One day at a time… 5 mins at a time sometimes. My afternoon was miserable, but I got through it.

I want to get to the point where, I no longer worry about the contact… I know I can’t skip parts to this.

Kanga

[Thornton]

Hi Kanga,

I feel for you. You very much remind me of the feelings I had when I went through what was arguably the worst time of my life.

I remember feeling like I was broken because a lot of the other posters seemed to be handling their situations much better than I was. The anxiety for me was crippling. There were days that I would vomit just thinking about things. I very much have an anxious attachment style due to some trauma I experienced as a child.

It doesn't happen for everyone, and I don't want to provide you with false hope, but I was able to get my WAS back (although the relationship ended a few years later). I would spend hours and hours scouring the internet looking for a fix. I would be on these forums for hours at a time. It became an obsession. I couldn't sleep, I went to the doctor for meds. I'd talk to my poor friends about things every single day repeating the same conversation over and over again.

What worked for me, was complete and total, pitch black, no contact.

* I stopped calling
* I stopped texting
* I stayed off social media because seeing her smiling in pictures was torture for me
* I stopped snooping
* I stopped asking friends about her
* I pretended that she had passed away (I know that sounds morbid but it def helped)

I did this for months on end.

Until one day she texted me. I remember my hand shaking uncontrollably while I read the message on my phone. She wanted to talk and asked to meet at a Starbucks. Basically she wanted me back and we slowly got back together.

One of the most helpful things that I did was start new hobbies. At first I had zero interest in hobbies, all I cared about was her. I was addicted to her. I joined the gym and started mountain biking and after a few tries, I very slowly started to enjoy it. I felt like I had accomplished something afterwards, but then the anxiety would take hold again. But I kept going and slowly over time, my confidence started to grow. And it slowly transformed me into who I am today.

I promise you, you will smile again one day. It's going to take some time, but it will happen. And IF your H doesn't come back, the lessons you will have learned from this experience will bring a new meaning to your life that you will actually be THANKFUL for. Read that again, I said you will be thankful for this experience.

One day at a time, I'm rooting for you.

[Sunflyer]

I don’t want that anymore. When I was mowing today, I realise too that a lot of the pain is in the in between letting go absolutely and hanging on still. It’s woeful.

Of course. You cannot erase the history you have with someone so easily. The need to leave them to their devices, and the deep-rooted attachment you developed, are at odds with each other. That attachment will leave a mark on you, make no mistake, and pain will be the result when disruption occurs.

The first woman I had any kind of physical intimacy with would have been a complete disaster relationship wise if she had stayed in my life longer than she did, which was only a few months. I see that now although I was rather blind to it at the time. But there are things about those few months--nowhere near the decades I had with my W--that will stay with me just as long as the memories of my W will (that is, until I die).

Hold your head up. Your H has some major issues to work out. Despite this, you are taking the high road. Moving ahead with yourself and for yourself. You are a prize. Repeat it to yourself every time the pain tries to drag you down.

[KangaB]

Thank you Thornton and Sunflyer,

I took great strength out of what you both wrote over the last few days. When I read your encouragement and advice, I prayed and I went through the acceptance list that I’ve been writing and something lifted. I suddenly felt a sense of relief, to the point that I got inspired to learn how to DJ. I used to work in the Music industry and I have always wanted to learn to spin records. I’m not sure whether I will get to the point but I downloaded hundreds of songs and the genres I would like to play and started reading about the craft. The point is I haven’t felt this inspired in a long time. I also started thinking about a life without H and what that would look like if I decided to become a DJ just for fun. I loved watching DJ Ruth Flowers aka Mammy Rock on YouTube and how she did it.

The last few days, I’ve been going with the excitement of learning something new. It may never happen, but I’m relieved of the pain I have been feeling for quite a while. I then go back to the grief, but I’ve stopped crying a lot. I still don’t have a lot of energy, in fact I’m really tired. I’m just going with it and doing the things I need to do and then rest again.

I really need to hear some thoughts about MC. H and I are going to see my local Pastor on Monday and I have no idea what I want to say or how I should be. I welcome all suggestions and advice. H will manipulate the session I know that, he is already preparing.

H also sent me a strange text last night that said he feels like we are forgetting each other with a teary emoji. I didn’t reply until this morning and just said ‘same’ with teary emoji. It was the first honest text that I have received from H in months. After I sent the reply, I was sent a barrage of abuse and I’m going to put it here because I would really like to understand what is going on. If anyone would care to let me know their thoughts, I would appreciate it.

This is what H said…

Well I’ve done EVERYTHING you’ve asked of me, I’ve abided by the rules you have set. I’ve reached out to you any number of times. There’s only one person who can change this and that is you.

Unfortunately, you are the one who is writing on this wall, and each hour and each day that goes by where you can’t acknowledge this, and continue to hold on to your resentments and keep buying into the lies you keep telling yourself, just makes the situation even less and less recoverable.

What ever has clicked over in your mind you need to snap out of it. Right now!

Have a look and the table and chairs out there in your garden, and remember what it was like to sit there by yourself. Or driving just to have something to do. Or how tired your friends got when you would call them all the time.

If that’s what you want your life to be again, and maybe it is?? Maybe you have decided that you’ve checked marriage off the list and now this is your way of trying to find a way out???

It’s difficult for me because your words say you want to be in a marriage - but your actions show otherwise.

Right now all of your actions show that you’ve decided to move on in life without me.

Maybe you’re having an affair?

If that’s the case then just be honest and tell me. At least I’d know.

But if it’s just that you’ve let your mind play tricks on you again then you really need to snap out of it before it really is too late.

Seeing a counsellor doesn’t forgo maintaining our relationship.

Hope

I’m not sure how I should reply to this. I never asked him to reach out, in fact I said please do not call.

I need some help.

Kanga

[Sunflyer]

Well, I am hardly a veteran here, but it sounds to me like he is gaslighting you again.

He is making it seem that your actions are fully responsible for the current situation, but on the other hand he continues, apparently, to maintain a relationship with XW, and he doesn't want to change that. He likes having two women wrapped around his finger.

Great idea about exploring a new hobby! That kind of thing is exactly what you need.

Also, I am not sure I read your entire thread in the past, but I've gathered that you and H don't live under the same roof. May I ask why that is? Did you separate at some point? Apologies if I missed something.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Kanga

I am glad to hear you are inspired and excited about doing and learning something new. Good for you!

Everyone needs a certain amount of understand of their situation before they can really start to let go. And even more, start to embrace themselves and their life. What I’ve seen in your posts is that growing and understanding and start of accepting.

Learning to DJ sounds pretty fun. And your passion is glowing right off the page. Like you said, you’ve got hundreds of songs you want to listen to and go from there. I bet it’s been sometime since you wanted to play (and maybe sing to) those loved songs.

I really need to hear some thoughts about MC. H and I are going to see my local Pastor on Monday and I have no idea what I want to say or how I should be.

I do agree with you that H is likely preparing for the MC session. He likely will try to move it in a certain direction.

So, what do can you do about that?

You could fight fire with fire. Go head to head with H. Usually not a great option. So much flame just turns everything to cinders and ash.

You could turn the other cheek. Just allowing H to spew. However, that is likely to just poison the session.

We could keep going with different scenarios and potential outcomes to no real avail. The point being control. You cannot control the outcome of the session, you only can control you - your thoughts, actions, and reactions.

Consider the “why” of you having no idea what to say or how to be during MC. You are likely after a certain outcome or result. Perfectly normal. However, let go that need for a certain outcome and focus on you.

Preparing for an interview, or counselling, or a conversation, predisposed one to seeing things that way. I do agree that “some” preparation is helpful, yet most folks run the potential conversation over and over in their mind so many times beforehand they are really closed off. If one has thought through, their side, what they want to say, the likely subsequent back and forth, the debate, and the defending of their position, like a hundred times - the actual one time will have little or no effect upon them. That entrenchment is likely where H is, and will be, at.

How you should be: Be yourself. Know thy self. Know your truth.

Ah, the truth. We all view the world through our own lens. Our knowledge, experiences, beliefs, prejudices, and so on, all crafting one’s truth.

I do believe there is one truth. A reality. Yet we cannot ever fully see it nor understand it. We craft reality with our senses - sight, taste, feel, hear, and so on. So one’s reality is subjective not objective. Even though there is an objective reality.

Consider sound. Play a C major chord. C, E, and G. First, third, and major fifth. We hear the overall chord and we hear the individual notes.

Now consider the color yellow. We cannot distinguish between pure yellow, that sinusoidal waveform with a wavelength of 580nm or the mixture of red and green. We literally cannot see the individual colors like we hear the notes in a chord, we only see yellow. We cannot see this reality. Completely indistinguishable. Of course, we have created devices that can separate and display the individual components of the composite waveforms. Thus peering further into reality.

The point being it’s the pursuit of reality that truly matters. A willingness to learn and grow, and see beyond.

What to say: Your letter spelt things out pretty clearly.

Let H start where he will. And see what the resulting chasm looks like.

To be clear. Do stand up for yourself, you can even re-state your boundaries on disrespectful behaviour, while maintaining a willingness to listen. Do not get steamrolled over. Speak factually and non-judgementally. Realize H’s truth/viewpoint is different. Think less in terms of right and wrong, and more in differing points of view.

To me, MC is not about telling you the answers, it’s about providing an environment to discuss. Its success depends upon the willingness of all the parties. I’m pretty sure about you, H not so much.


H’s message has lots of blame. Lots of accusations towards what H feels Kanga has done, and nothing about what he has done. He even tells you to snap out of it. His statement that he did everything you ask of him, and followed all the rules you set out, is all such a farce. Misdirection, avoiding, projecting, gaslighting, and so on.

Gaslighting is a purposeful emotional abuse to cause the other person to question their reality, their perceptions, their very memories. It is a form of control and assertion of power.

Projection is not gaslighting. Projection is a defence mechanism where one unconsciously copes by avoiding difficult emotions. It’s an unconscious attributing of one’s own thoughts, feelings, and beliefs upon another. A defence mechanism, an unrealized expression of the person’s own inner dialog. A few behaviours of projection: avoiding responsibility, making accusations, defensiveness, and invalidation.

H’s message has some gaslighting elements. Yet, to me, it has much more projection elements. Replace Kanga with H in his message and the projecting becomes clearer.

There’s only one person who can change this and that is you me.

Unfortunately, you are I am the one who is writing on this wall, and each hour and each day that goes by where you I can’t acknowledge this, and continue to hold on to your my resentments and keep buying into the lies you I keep telling yourself myself, just makes the situation even less and less recoverable.

What ever has clicked over in your my mind you I need to snap out of it. Right now!

(And so on. Continue replacing below.)

Have a look and the table and chairs out there in your garden, and remember what it was like to sit there by yourself. Or driving just to have something to do. Or how tired your friends got when you would call them all the time.

If that’s what you want your life to be again, and maybe it is?? Maybe you have decided that you’ve checked marriage off the list and now this is your way of trying to find a way out???

Maybe you have decided that you’ve checked marriage off the list and now this is your way of trying to find a way out???

It’s difficult for me because your words say you want to be in a marriage - but your actions show otherwise.

Right now all of your actions show that you’ve decided to move on in life without me.

Maybe you’re having an affair?

If that’s the case then just be honest and tell me. At least I’d know.

But if it’s just that you’ve let your mind play tricks on you again then you really need to snap out of it before it really is too late.

Seeing a counsellor doesn’t forgo maintaining our relationship.

Projection stems from avoiding difficult emotions. H has avoided difficult emotions for quite a while. You know this. Take what H says with a grain salt. Believe nothing he says, and only half of what he does.

D

[KangaB]

I’m back! I haven’t yet caught up on the last posts of DnJ and Sunflyer that I need to reply to and apologise to. I left the forum mid-October last year to step out into the world after doing some counselling with my husband and the local Pastor. Up until 4 weeks ago, things were looking up. The universe forced us together everyday for 8 weeks with only one car while our other car was getting prepared. We had the best time. We have never lived together longer than 2 weeks in the 9 years we have been together except while on holidays. We have always lived apart. For those (including Sunflyer) who missed my situation, H and I have always had seperate houses due to his children living with him full time. Eventually, they all moved out and I’m living 2.5Hrs helping run a Family business and he is working where he is. We always said we would move in together eventually. So here we were over Christmas and New Year into January living together and enjoying each other so much. I was surprised. We had no interference from XW and my husband (after our counselling sessions) didn’t encourage her and he didn’t reach out. It was a little stressful due to having to be in all places with one car. Overall it was the best fun. It made me really want to live with him.

And then, back to reality. The 2nd car was fixed and we went back to our old routine. H has decided to put his house on the market to move over with me. Due to Mortgage stress, he has put the house on the market before he really wanted to. We were hoping for Interest rates to improve before he would sell. It has been a grieving time for him. I have mixed feelings as I’ve been super excited about him doing it; yet will miss his place as well when it sells. XW stills barges into the house without asking. She did this recently as SD was visiting. H didn’t engage with her, except for hi and then came into bedroom where I was hiding out as last time, I told XW very politely not to do that again. She was stirring for it obviously, but new both didn’t take the bait. H has told her many times not to come in, she just ignores him. Back to his house… It was the Family home that he built with XW, so of course I would like a fresh start.

The last 4 weeks, H has been irritable, distant and picking fights again. All the hallmarks of reconnecting with XW behind my back. As we speak, I’m just in the process of asking him if he is speaking to XW behind my back again as his behaviour changes purely for this reason. I haven’t seen H for 6 days. He picked a fight and drove home the next day from my place. I set a hefty boundary and he didn’t like it and fumed home. Funnily, he spoke with XW tonight, but tells me this is the first time in a long time. He assured me during counselling that he was going to be transparent.

I actually don’t quite believe him, because of his disconnected behaviour towards me. I did thank him for telling me what he told me. I make out I believe what he says.

I’m a real mess tonight and I can’t believe, I’ve lost myself in H’s baffling behaviour again. I’ve tried to stick to some of my principles from Divorce Busting. I’m so new that any information I retained earlier has just slipped like sand through my fingers. I got swept up in the fun of my marriage for a few months. I’ve lost my husband again though. It’s so painful. This week I have been going dark and not entering into any arguments. I have replied to 2 texts and haven’t initiated contact nor pursued. When I did respond to his texts, I spent much time, being extremely careful on what I was saying as not to antagonise; yet be truthful without saying it mean. I haven’t pursued him to organise anything with him over the next 4 days. We normally do 4 days a week together. I’ve decided to stand in my marriage and GAL, although I haven’t been that great at it lately. This week, I have been concentrating on doing this and I went back to Karate, DJing on hold. I’m now paying the Pipe Organ and having lots of fun with that.

Even though I stepped away for a few months, I did take away a few things with me. I don’t initiate anything with H as much as I did, although, I think this is creeping back to old behaviours for me given his behaviour at the moment. H does most of the calling when we are apart. I try to be upbeat, dress well. I don’t get involved with SIL about our problems and stay away from FIL and StepMIL. I don’t talk about XW at all. I do have a super Prayer life thanks to Divorce Busting. I was putting H as my Higher Power and not knowing it. How my day went was according to what he was doing. This is slowly creeping back into my life. I’m scared of becoming obsessed with H’s contact with his XW again because of his recent behaviour. I do not trust her one bit and I’m believing half of what he says. As I write, I just text H to say I appreciate him telling me his contact with her. I haven’t asked him about her since last year as he has been setting such amazing boundaries. H is a cake eater though and I’m wondering whether he is now cake eating with wanting to not sell his house and live over here and keep his old life which is tied up with her with his house? I’m sorry to all those who have been following. I left abruptly and didn’t answer to DnJ and Sunflyer. I suspect this happens all the time with Newcomers. I’m glad to be posting again and hoping somehow that what I write will help someone else. There is hope for our M because I saw it for 3 whole months and it was wonderful. Where to now? I would love some guidance from anyone who wishes to chime in again and give me some encouragement. Will reply to DnJ and Sunflyer tomorrow. Many blessings to you all. Kanga 😊