H EW possibly DBing and I’m losing the battle

[DnJ]

Hello Kanga

Do my actions serve my goals of bringing me closer to having a better marriage and life?

A suggestion for you. Split these apart, and change their order.

Do my actions serve my goal of bringing me closer to having a better life?

Do my actions serve my goal of bringing me closer to having a better marriage?

Two separate goals. The first is completely within your control and power to fulfill. In the second you can only control your part. Realize, the better a life you craft, the better you will influence the second.

To the actual achievement of those goals: Identify them. Clearly. What defines success? How will you know when you do have a better life? Describe it. For such a noble goal as life’s betterment, there will be many paths and headings; each a worthy goal in their own right. List the bigger steps to achieve these. Then further list those big steps into smaller and smaller steps. Each small step achieved bringing you closer and closer to your overall goal(s).


We all required a certain amount of understanding before we will let go. You have your proof of an EA. This information, when utilized in a positive manner, is certainly a gift.

I’d no longer snoop on H and XW. I’d also stop the cake eating. H is living in two worlds. Do not work to destroy XW or their relationship, you’ll just push them together even more. Just let H go. Let him lay in the bed he’s made.

Focus on you. And keep moving forward.

D

[Valeska19]

Ok... so prepare yourself K for the 2x4s

Hi Valeska,

Thank you so much for replying and giving me food for thought.

First, the dream that H had about the affair and him lying to me and asking me how does this mean H is coming out of denial? H has been lying to me for a very long time. He was also abusive and would pick fights and he still picks fights so he can deflect the feelings of guilt and shame. Him dreaming of him having an affair and feeling awful about it, is his subconscious catching up with him. It’s a win because, right back in H’s brain, he knows what he is doing is wrong. Yay!! It’s a step and DBing for me is about patience and being given time. Eventually, his feelings in the dream will become a reality.

Maybe or maybe not. You are giving the dream more power than it deserves.

Since Ive found the evidence, I have handed it over to my Higher Power and prayed about it. I’ve decided to be my usual, loving self around H, at the same time getting the hang of setting boundaries. When I know that H and XW have been in touch, I lay very low the next day. I make myself as unreachable as I possibly can.

I can see how this is a boundary as in it protects you and provides a little safe care.... but wouldn't the boundary be more of. "H.. if you decide to talk with XW... I am going to need to distance myself”

Okay… so I understand that I can set this sort of boundary if H knows that I know that he is talking to XW. But, he doesn’t know that I know and the fact that he doesn’t know is my power. In fact, I used to try this on him, which only felt like punishment for him and it just brought him closer to XW and distanced him from me. My goal is to attract him back by being the person I used to be before my confidence was completely obliterated by this affair.

It's not about "trying" anything on him. You are missing the point with what a boundary is. You can set this boundary w/o even communicating it to him. It's about you believing in yourself enough to say "I deserve to be someone's first choice - and acting accordingly. You can do this w/o nagging by dropping the rope and detaching.

P.S. Laying low for 24 hours isn't going to make H miss you long enough for him to really think about what he wants in life. He just realizes you are gone and texts you - and you jump right back in. Something to think about.

Yes I agree this is Cake Eating. This is not the time for me to address Cake Eating. H has not admitted anything to me where I can set bigger boundaries. Until he does, all I can do is be the better cake to eat. I used to whinge and complain about his contact with XW. All it did was make her look like a 12 instead of a 4 that she actually is. I realised from your comments which really angered me and thank you!!! Because this is what I arrived at. Part of DBing and the 180’s is being the better tasting cake so that the WS puts down the other cake for good. No one goes back to a bad tasting anything if something tastes better. What else can you do about Cake Eating where it doesn’t push WS to keep eating their cake and perceive yours as awful. I’m changing my ingredients!!!

Again... no one is saying to pick a fight with him... but if you think you can nice your way back to him - you need to reread MWD's work. Cake eating will only prolong the process.

Ha, I love it… calling me an avoidant wife!! It used to be that I would rake him over the coals even if it were done nicely. Did it get me anywhere? No! It just pushed H further into the direction of XW!!! Isn’t it about creating some mystery? Isn’t it about stopping nagging (however nicely it’s done)? I was always in for a fight and standing up for my rights. It has got me nowhere. Some of it may have had an impact for a while, but, deep down I felt powerless knowing that I just cajoled him into stepping into line. I’m not doing that anymore. And yes, I am avoiding fights and abuse until I have set the tone on how better to communicate between us 2. Let it begin with me and I say that he and I only have contact when H is ready to be nice and respects me and our M. Leaving him to have contact with XW also does another thing (even though I hate him lying to me so much and for this to happen). That while H has been given free rein (essentially, I have gotten out of the way) to the ‘wonderful, new and improved XW’—not. I am improving in the background, trying to have a relaxing and enjoyable time so I can be the much better and improved me that H fell in love with in the first place. I want to go back to the confidence that I had when we were first got together and I didn’t give a toss about his contact with XW. I want the confidence again, so that I am ready to accept H’s confession when it happens and then I can set my boundaries and be the prize and he knows it once and for all!!

Mystery is creating when you GAL and stop answering and participating in his life so much. That is not what you are doing here. You have said so yourself that he is abusive - it feels like you are just in the "calm" part of the abuse cycle which you, by your own admission, don't want to change to avoid a fight

Love the comments… love that you gave me so much to think about and to prove that nearly everything that I am doing is bringing me closer to my goal of having a better M and a better life, even though at times it feels like I’m going backwards, it is improving. I completely submit myself to MWD’s advice and to all that follow her advice. Slowly but surely.

I just don't see it K. Nagging is a response to be a push over. I'm glad you stopped that but your H is still holding for the power.

I’m fighting for my M, not in my M.

The best way to fight for your marriage is to fight for YOURSELF. How are you doing that when your life is still so consumed with H?

[KangaB]

Hi DnJ and Valeska,

I woke up this morning having read what you both wrote. I also had more news because I snooped. Of course I couldn’t help it and all the bravado that I said in my posts obviously made God laugh and this is what came of it…

H I know about all the contact you have been having with XW behind my back. I have known for a while. The reason why I was crying the other night and yesterday was because of it. I have tried to be strong and given my all in the last few months to you. Back in July, I knew. It’s why I was crying on and off while you were here one time and you kept asking me what was wrong and I said I would tell you some day. I knew it at both Family gatherings in June and August.

This has undermined our marriage for a long time. I know that there are times that you didn’t call to say goodnight but you were on the phone to XW. I know that you were not just hanging out with SS yesterday but on the phone to XW and you didn’t call back last night because you were on the phone to XW.

I am beyond devastated and heart broken!!! I so wanted to go on our honeymoon, but already there isn’t one because I am nothing to you and I can’t live in an open marriage anymore and to be shown deceit like this. It’s why you pushed me away on our first anniversary. It’s why you have tried to tell me the reasons why we shouldn’t go on our honeymoon.

I would never go behind your back with any other man and talk to them like you have with XW. What woman would make herself available to a married man like this? You would always know and have always known who I have contacted in my life. You even said to me on the phone about 6 weeks ago that you were watching a show about 2 seperate married people being friends outside of their marriages and how you couldn’t stand it, if I were doing it to you.

You had a dream 2 weeks ago, that you had an affair and how awful it was. Your contact with XW is in secret. It is a lot and it’s not appropriate and you would not like it.

You both have disrespected me and treated me like a fool. How can I trust? How can I stay strong when you are sneaking around—both of you as if our marriage doesn’t exist? Our marriage never had a chance.

I gave you my life, commitment for life, dedication through good and bad. I have read those vows over and over in the last few months trying to uphold my dignity and integrity in spite of this.

You will no longer call me, you will no longer come here. You both have what you want.

I know that you love me. And I keep asking myself why? You said you never liked her. You said you never loved her.

I love you and I want you to be happy with all my heart. I can’t be in this situation anymore. I told you I was not giving up on our marriage and I mean it.

Thank you so much for all the good times and I hope you find what you’ve been searching for outside of our marriage. I have learned so much knowing what has been going on and showing the best love that I have despite what you have both been doing.

There is only so much I can take.

Goodbye,

Kanga xoxoxoxo

Feeling pretty awful. Rang SIL and told her. I know I wasn’t meant to. None of this was supposed to happen, but it did and I didn’t even have to rewrite. It just came. I was ready and I didn’t want to face it. H has since turned it all on me and told me I’m over reacting. Told me it was all my fault.

I hate both of them. XW was the last person he talked to last night, the most person he talked to yesterday and he didn’t even say goodnight to me. He’s gone.

Kanga

[Boat14]

Do you know why “the letter” is the worst thing you can do at this time? It’s because when you don’t get the response you want it is devastating. It’s just digs the hole you are in deeper and deeper. When you don’t follow through with the words you write on paper it makes you weaker to your husband. I’m sorry you are going through with this right now. Take it one day at a time.

[Pattnee5]

Sorry to hear Kanga about your situation and everything you are going through. Every day is a new day and a new beginning. You need to turn the focus on YOU now. Put yourself first. Work on you. Let H be and let him choose his own path and own way out. You can’t control him. I’m sorry the response to the letter wasn’t what you wanted, but remember what everyone on here so often says about having zero expectations. Keep moving forward and keep working to detach. The moment you drop that rope is the moment your life will change in this current situation

[Sunflyer]

Sorry to hear about this. Believe me, there are many times when I want to just tell my W why her current mindset is completely at odds with mine, or the way she used to act. I have a whole speech prepared. I have run it over in my head many times, and sometimes when she’s not around I even practice delivering it.

But I never do. The reason I don’t is exactly what you’ve been told here. It won’t do any good and is likely to make things worse. Back before BD, before I knew W wanted out of the M but I knew she was hurting, I wrote a heartfelt letter to her. I poured out what I felt about her. You know where that got me? Nowhere. D was filed one month later.

If your H behaves nicely toward you, realize that he is playing a role. He is trying to keep the peace or cake eat, or both. My W does the same. She says that she respects me and acts nicely to my face but will then turn around and say nasty things about me behind my back to her parents. I have no confirmation that she is having an affair, but she very well may be.

Of course, she is playing a role with her parents too, that of the victim. And so is your H. Notice how your H tried to turn all of the blame back onto you? Said it was all your fault? He easily identifies your flaws but ignores his own, which are just as significant.

The advice you have been given is good. Move forward with yourself and for yourself. It is hard, hard, hard, but it is the only way.

[Valeska19]

I woke up this morning having read what you both wrote. I also had more news because I snooped. Of course I couldn’t help it and all the bravado that I said in my posts obviously made God laugh and this is what came of it…

Beating yourself up is a normal response amongst the many you will have over the next few hours. Do not linger here. It will not be helpful to you long term.

H I know about all the contact you have been having with XW behind my back. I have known for a while. The reason why I was crying the other night and yesterday was because of it. I have tried to be strong and given my all in the last few months to you. Back in July, I knew. It’s why I was crying on and off while you were here one time and you kept asking me what was wrong and I said I would tell you some day. I knew it at both Family gatherings in June and August.

This has undermined our marriage for a long time. I know that there are times that you didn’t call to say goodnight but you were on the phone to XW. I know that you were not just hanging out with SS yesterday but on the phone to XW and you didn’t call back last night because you were on the phone to XW.

I am beyond devastated and heart broken!!! I so wanted to go on our honeymoon, but already there isn’t one because I am nothing to you and I can’t live in an open marriage anymore and to be shown deceit like this. It’s why you pushed me away on our first anniversary. It’s why you have tried to tell me the reasons why we shouldn’t go on our honeymoon.

I would never go behind your back with any other man and talk to them like you have with XW. What woman would make herself available to a married man like this? You would always know and have always known who I have contacted in my life. You even said to me on the phone about 6 weeks ago that you were watching a show about 2 seperate married people being friends outside of their marriages and how you couldn’t stand it, if I were doing it to you.

You had a dream 2 weeks ago, that you had an affair and how awful it was. Your contact with XW is in secret. It is a lot and it’s not appropriate and you would not like it.

You both have disrespected me and treated me like a fool. How can I trust? How can I stay strong when you are sneaking around—both of you as if our marriage doesn’t exist? Our marriage never had a chance.

I gave you my life, commitment for life, dedication through good and bad. I have read those vows over and over in the last few months trying to uphold my dignity and integrity in spite of this.

You will no longer call me, you will no longer come here. You both have what you want.

I know that you love me. And I keep asking myself why? You said you never liked her. You said you never loved her.

I love you and I want you to be happy with all my heart. I can’t be in this situation anymore. I told you I was not giving up on our marriage and I mean it.

Thank you so much for all the good times and I hope you find what you’ve been searching for outside of our marriage. I have learned so much knowing what has been going on and showing the best love that I have despite what you have both been doing.

There is only so much I can take.

Goodbye,

Kanga xoxoxoxo

Humans do not like to feel this kind of pain. This letter is an attempt to relieve that pain. Although it can be helpful - sending it will not achieve what you want. A tool instead is to create a grief journey. Write all above into that... daily if need be. It will help you process what you are going through.

Feeling pretty awful. Rang SIL and told her. I know I wasn’t meant to. None of this was supposed to happen, but it did and I didn’t even have to rewrite. It just came. I was ready and I didn’t want to face it. H has since turned it all on me and told me I’m over reacting. Told me it was all my fault.

You are spinning a little bit. And that too is a normal reaction. When I would spin - vets would tell me to take 48-72 hrs to calm down. This felt like a LIFETIME.. but usually helped prevent me from doing something I would regret (ie. writing a letter, calling SIL)

I hate both of them. XW was the last person he talked to last night, the most person he talked to yesterday and he didn’t even say goodnight to me. He’s gone.

Snooping creates a false calm to the anxiety you are feeling right now. If you stop - it is probable that you will feel even MORE anxious. That is going to come with any boundary you make or any attempt you do to take care of yourself when you H is in his fog.

But stay committed... you are worth it.

[job]

If you feel the need to write a letter, do so, but do not give it to him. Burn it after you are finished. Why? Because no matter what you say or do, everything will be your fault. The less you interact with him, the better.

He will play nice as long as he is getting what he wants. He will attempt to engage you, no matter if it is positive or negative, just to be able to say "see, she is still at it". Just leave him alone as much as you can.

Your h is gone, your marriage is dead and you need to mourn the situation. Once you have a better grasp of what is going on, you'll understand more about the "projection" that they use to place blame on us when they are actually doing whatever the deed or statement that has been said.

Again, leave him alone, do not engage unless it is to discuss your family. Do not share your business with him. If you go out, don't tell him where you are going or when you'll be back. The less you say, the better. He needs to hit the brick wall a number of times before he realizes that life exists, bills exist and responsibilities exist and that you are not his mother.

Please, please try to keep the focus on you. I know it is difficult, but you need to live your life to the fullest right now. Trust me, your anxiety level will go down when you start focusing on yourself and what you want to do with your life since he's MIA.

[KangaB]

I can’t believe it, I spent the past hour posting and my iPad went flat and I lost the whole lot and I was just about to sign off. All meant to be!

First, I want to thank Job, Valeska, Sunflyer, Pattnee and Boat for the tough caring. It was what I needed just at the right time. And it really hurt!!!!! I just couldn’t bring myself to reply until now.

I’ve spent the past week mostly in bed, realising and accepting that my M is dead like Job said. It’s so awful. Sometimes chocolate for breakfast and just leaving dishes everywhere. Fortunately, I work for myself and can afford the luxury of doing so.

I really felt I needed to write the letter and send it—for me. Sick to death of what is going on and sick of disrespecting myself like I have. I know, I know, I wasn’t supposed to. I got the reaction from H that I thought I was going to get. I was prepared, but hoping it would sink in a bit. Though, I have to say I have felt relieved not being in the limbo that I was. I thought I was DBing, but I was just being nice and enabling H to Cake eat. I didn’t realise until now how much I have had to pull back from my M.

I haven’t been sleeping too well and I’ve lost some weight. I awake in the night and I read the forums here until I fall asleep again. It has been viciously lonely, realising and accepting that my M was way worse than I thought it was. I suspect H has gone underground with XW now that he knows that I’ve been checking the Phone usage. I have had very limited contact with him. I have not called once and it has been 2 weeks since I’ve seen him. I respond to his texts in kind and keep them short but pleasant. I keep the phone calls short if he rings and I try not to ring him back. Been a bit difficult as his step-father nearly died last week and was in ICU. I’m texting only when I need to. I’ve postponed our belated honeymoon which was supposed to be in 3 weeks OS for a further 6 months with in mind to go by myself for my 50th birthday. Oh that really hurt, because I knew H was somehow going to ruin this trip.

In desperation last week, rather than reaching out to H like I normally would, I reached out to a local pastor that I know and went to church yesterday for the first times in a few years. I reached out to the pastor and told him about what is going on and he would like to see us both to counsel us. FIL told me it’s either divorce or MC. I told H that and that I don’t want a divorce. He told me he doesn’t want one neither, but of course I don’t believe him. He has told the pastor this and my father and told them both that he loves me and wants to grow old with me. Yet, he still maintains that he hasn’t done anything wrong, has no feelings for XW and is talking about the kids only. I say BS… as he has been hiding the contact and pursuing her and neglecting our M and picking fights. I just can’t go back to the way things were, and I know he is trying to pull me back into it because it feels good for him. It is so hard to think clearly and not get caught up in the gaslighting. H has almost had me convinced I’m overreacting. Both my father and FIL have said I have to trust. What BS… I fought back and said no, H has to be trustworthy and put them in their place.

I’m finding it hard to let go, although checking on the Phone usage has stopped. I know he is in contact with XW because the times I have had to talk to him (briefly), he has picked up on her accent. I just assume now and I make sure that if I have to contact him, it’s during business hours only with in mind that he probably speaks to her in the evenings.

This is so hard. H has been telling me he loves me, but no remorse. He then gets mean and sends nasty texts. I have to say this time, there haven’t been as many nasty texts. H rings me and expects to engage in conversation like nothing has happened, even though I have told him I don’t want to talk to him. I have also told him, I don’t want to talk about our R.

So, I’m trying to look at this with a Beginner’s mind and do my 180’s. I now realise all this time up until I wrote the letter, I was trying to piece and nice my H back into the M. How can this happen when he doesn’t respect me nor our M. I look back and there are so many things that just haven’t added up and we just haven’t been in a M at all. Moments of tenderness and good times, but that’s it. There is no consistency because XW has been consistent and has changed tracks to keep him focussed away from M. I’m now thinking that our M was just a rebound from them in the 1st place. I feel like it is just a sham.

But what to do now?

So I’ve arranged MC with the Pastor, but I’m not sure if this is the right thing. First, I don’t want H to see me cry and I’m not sure being in the same room together to try and work on a M with H when he thinks nothing of what he’s doing and wants to keep XW in the marriage. The only thing is the Pastor has a fantastic rapport with men and he believes in saving M’s. H doesn’t have any close Male friends and I want him to be able to confide in another man with good morals and who takes M seriously. I really don’t think it’s going to make a difference. I’m terribly low on hope for us. I’m praying a lot and hoping that the contact with the Pastor may lead H back to his faith which he lost just before he met XW in his 30’s.

Our M is dead and it might not recover. I’m fearful of not seeing him again. I miss the good bits and the hope and dreams for our future. Oh it’s awful and so lonely without him. I’m tearing up as I write.

I just don’t know where to go from here and how to do the contact or what to do with the lack of it. How to keep the door open a little bit, but not too much that he thinks he can get it all back his way again.

The last contact which was tonight, I sent him a text after he called twice (I’m trying not to call him back) and told him I don’t feel much like talking but I appreciate that he is making an effort. He replied with I am making an effort and I will now leave it up to you to contact me. I said ‘ok’. He has not apologised for lying to me. Nothing… just that he loves me and that it doesn’t have to be this way. Then he will get angry with me when I don’t respond. So I don’t know… I know if I go back and cave in it will just get worse and I don’t want to do that. He is expecting me to come to my senses.

Where do I go from here with communication so I’m not offending but protecting myself. And what do I do about MC? I’m thinking of giving MC 6 months and see how we go. I’m not going to initiate divorce. He will have to make the effort. I’m so disappointed and hurt by him.

Today, I cleaned up the house and folded the washing. It is slightly getting better each day. I wake with dread when I realise what has happened. Firmly out of the fog and I can’t go back. I know that after reading 100’s of postings that I can only go forward. I honestly want him to snap out of it and have an epiphany. Am I wrong in any way? I’ve tried so hard since July not to react to him and be the best version of myself. Why didn’t it work? Why did he show so much neglect for our M?

I welcome the feedback and thank you to all that jumped on me when I wrote the letter and sent it.

Kanga

[KangaB]

Step father in ICU not SD

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Updated post. - DnJ