Moving Forward

[Jac12]

Old Thread

Hi All, I'm not happy to be here but I'm happy that everyone here exists because it does help.

Quick Recap:
Dec 9/18 wife drops ILYBINILWY bomb. Says she wants to run from responsibilities and has been emotionally numb for 3 years (when her dad was first diagnosed with cancer)
Dec/Jan - behaviour was crazy. Going out and staying out late with work friends (group of 4 guys) on Friday nights. Super attached to phone. Didn't buy any gifts for me or our son for Christmas.
Feb 1/19 she moves out renting a condo
Late March - Her Dad passes away after battling lung and brain cancer
April/May, half of June - spends most nights back in our house. She'd go back to her condo 1x or 2x each week for some "space".

We never had any problems except our sex life had become a little stale. Married for 4 years with a 2.5 year old boy.

One other note: She did get a new job when she was done maternity leave - she basically 4x'd her other income from before.

Current Situation:

Early July she said she needed more separation as being around the house more wasn't changing anything. I initiated the conversation. I told her if she wants to do that then no more staying over here and no more family outings.

This past Sunday I initiated more conversation as I've just been tired of all of this crap and I felt like she was just stringing me along. I told her that I loved her and have always supported her. I was willing to do counselling or whatever else it would take to work on our marriage.

She said: "I'm just not feeling anything. I thought I would miss you more if I moved out but I've realized I'm happier on my own. I don't feel like putting the effort in and I don't think it will change".

Me: "So are you telling me you would sign divorce papers right now if they were in front of you?"
Her: (cries) "I don't know , blah blah blah"

I then brought up a separation agreement. Currently I'm still paying for everything for our son and all the house expenses. I also have my son with me at our house every night. I take him to school and pick him up every day except Wednesday nights. I had to rearrange my whole business in order to look after our son (thrilled to do that) but that has cost me about 50% of my normal income.

So I brought up the finances and mentioned shed probably be paying about $2,000/month in child support and she got pissed and said: "that's not going to make me love you any more" (manipulative).

We also discussed arrangements for my son. I said he would stay with me and she can continue to pick him up on Wednesdays and she could see him Saturday from 8am until dinner time. She was fine with that.

We kind of left the conversation at we'd talk to out lawyers and figure out the financial side. I'm seeing my lawyer this Thursday.

Any thoughts/advice?

I'm still open to working on our marriage but I also need to move forward with my life as I dont' want to feel like a Plan B. She's given me no indication that she wants to be with me.

Thanks all.

[Jac12]

I think I've been way too soft leading up to this but my thought was that the patience I was showing was also strength. Keep the waters calm and give her time to figure out her feelings.

She has said she's been depressed at some level since high school. At one point this past couple months she mentioned maybe she was bi-polar because she was saying things that she wasn't feeling or hadn't been feeling. She's waiting on an appointment with a psychiatrist (apparently may take 4-6 months). I'm pretty sure she had some post-partum depression and then in December she found out her dad had brain cancer and 3 months to live. My point being she's had a lot going on so I was patient thinking that we/she would be able to sort through these things.

I need to show more strength and have her realize that she WILL lose me. Or maybe I've already lost her anyways. Not sure why I keep holding on.

[Destroyd]

Jac, I am so sorry that you are going through this. Unfortunately, you are not alone. I am not sure I have any answers for you, but I am also of the mind that loving patience shows strength. I cannot detach. Everyone here says that I need to, but I am struggling with it. So instead, I just give loving patience. I really try not to pursue or pressure. I fail at this too many times for my own good. But when I stop all pursuit and pressure and just engage in loving patience, I do see my situation improve. I pray that your wife and mine come back to us.

[unchien]

jac - You are sacrificing a lot of your time and money for this situation. You have been very patient (I'm new here since you last posted, so just read a bit of your sitch).

Also being new here, take my advice for what it's worth.

Your W literally told you she does not want to put in effort, and doesn't think it would change. At this point, I think a separation agreement makes sense given your sacrifices. It also shows her she cannot just come and go as she please, and expect you to sacrifice on your end so she can make 4x income on her side. It shows strength, while leaving open the door a crack.

I'm basing this off one post, but you went through a lot in a single conversation. It sounds like money is a huge trigger for your W - not saying you should avoid the topic, but I would leave it to 3rd parties to work out rather than state what you think she should pay you. She will feel manipulated and controlled no matter how fair or accurate your number is. I know in my state all the calculations are just guidelines and ultimately if 2 parties can work out a fair number the judge will sign off 99% of the time.

It sounds like the timeshare arrangement with your son was less emotional for her. I would consider documenting your agreement (or at least keeping a journal record to yourself of what you agreed to). She may decide she wants more time when she consults a lawyer and realizes the impact to support payments.

Lawyers are going to make this more annoying, but at the same time, I think these things work out best if both parties feel like they were not railroaded into an agreement they later regret.

Also... if she's willing to wait 4-6 months to get psych help, that shows she is not serious. I'm appalled by this. Is she only looking at psych's who are covered by insurance? (I'm not suggesting you ask her this, but maybe you already know). In my area, almost none of the psych's take insurance, but I can get reimbursed 70% on the back-end by handling the paperwork by myself and submitting to insurance. She can also call around and when people are booked out ask them for referrals. There are TONS of ways to get help. Maybe her employer has an assistance program (EAP?) where they provide a few sessions for free - AND help with locating available doctors.

I don't know if her getting mental health treatment is a condition for you. I only want to point out that she seems to be paying it lip service only.

[Jac12]

Unchien - thanks for your reply. Yes, I do feel like I have sacrificed a lot but that's what you do for your family and your loved ones right? I worry that by showing some strength she will take that as a I sign that I'm done. Am I done? No. I'm leaving the door open a crack but doing what I can to move forward on my own with my son.

You are 100% right about the money being a trigger. I will leave that up to the L's and my hope is that I can propose something to her that is fair. I don't want the full payments as I don't need it all but I want to make sure I'm keeping the house so my son has a good place to grow up and my investments (90k). Yes, I'll leave the discussions to the L's.

I don't know why she's waiting to get psych help. My gut says she just doesn't want to deal with difficult things. Easier for her right now to just do what she wants and have fun. For a registered Psychiatrist the timelines are long, which is unfortunate. Her work also has an assistance program if needed and a couple months ago she said she would look into it. She said she was bi-polar possibly and definitely has dealt with some depression since high school (but she says "who hasn't").

It's so hard to understand why she doesn't want to fight for our child. I mean to spend more time with him. How can I respect that? Why would I want to be with someone that won't fight for her family?

It's not easy.

Tonight - came home and she was looking after our son (wednesdays). I asked her if she thought about our chat from Sunday and she said "no, not really". I asked her if she's contacted a lawyer: "no, not yet. Have you?". I told her I have a meeting tomorrow morning and that my lawyer will want to know who is representing her so we can get a separation agreement done. She said: "ok, I better get on that then". She then left. She also wasn't wearing her wedding band. I'm keeping mine on so she knows the door is open a crack and this is her decision. Should I take it off?

[Jac12]

Destroyed: Thanks for the input. I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

[unchien]

Unchien - thanks for your reply. Yes, I do feel like I have sacrificed a lot but that's what you do for your family and your loved ones right? I worry that by showing some strength she will take that as a I sign that I'm done. Am I done? No. I'm leaving the door open a crack but doing what I can to move forward on my own with my son.

I think you are making the right move. If she cannot handle you standing up for yourself, your MR is doomed to failure anyhow. You would not be happy always sacrificing.

I used to watch the show Intervention a lot with my wife, and what you wrote above sounds a lot like the family members enabling addicts.

I don't know why she's waiting to get psych help. My gut says she just doesn't want to deal with difficult things. Easier for her right now to just do what she wants and have fun. For a registered Psychiatrist the timelines are long, which is unfortunate. Her work also has an assistance program if needed and a couple months ago she said she would look into it. She said she was bi-polar possibly and definitely has dealt with some depression since high school (but she says "who hasn't").

I call BS. She could call her EAP and locate help within a week. How do I know this? Because I have called my EAP (for MC) and I live in an area where timelines are long, and what do you know they have a selection of 5 people I can choose from, available within a day.

It's so hard to understand why she doesn't want to fight for our child. I mean to spend more time with him. How can I respect that? Why would I want to be with someone that won't fight for her family?

Yeah, that part struck me from your first post, I didn't say anything because I didn't know how you felt. I work FT and my W is a SAHM for now, and I fought for more time than your W is getting. This sounds like a pretty strong difference in values, something to think about as well.

Tonight - came home and she was looking after our son (wednesdays). I asked her if she thought about our chat from Sunday and she said "no, not really". I asked her if she's contacted a lawyer: "no, not yet. Have you?". I told her I have a meeting tomorrow morning and that my lawyer will want to know who is representing her so we can get a separation agreement done. She said: "ok, I better get on that then". She then left. She also wasn't wearing her wedding band. I'm keeping mine on so she knows the door is open a crack and this is her decision. Should I take it off?

Sounds like she drags her feet on everything involving your sitch...

I just had a wedding band thing this week myself. Rings are symbols, and they can be signals too. My only advice is don't make your decision in response to your W. Do what you want to do. If you feel like you want to keep it on as a symbol of your commitment, keep it on. If you're not feeling it, take it off.

You didn't file for divorce... she knows the door is open.

[Jac12]

Thanks for the responses Unchien. It's much appreciated and you give me things to think about.

I sometimes think that she'll snap out of this fog. I've read it on here enough that a flip can switch and it's like they didn't even know who they were. This is 9 months in now which isn't really that long but I think I should stop believing that it will happen with her.

And to be clear...I have full confidence that I would meet someone else and take what I've learned in this to have an even better relationship. But...I do love me wife and if the old one came back I'd try to rebuild the marriage.

[unchien]

I feel exactly the same way as you do. I'm confident in myself in finding a future partner, but would prefer building a new MR with my W. I think only you can decide how long to hold out, it is a very personal decision.

I can't remember where I heard this, but some comedian said all therapists should just have one piece of advice: "Snap out of it!" Here you are, sitting, waiting for your W to snap out of it. With no signs that she is going to.

Anyways, I fully support the move to a more formal separation to protect yourself. It will also give your W a more accurate picture of what D'd life will look like. It may feel like a step away from R, I would look at it as a step towards your future, whatever that holds. From what you posted she has not shown signs of change.

Don't judge yourself on time either. Some people never find this forum because they get fed up and move on quickly. Others will wait years and years. I've said in my sitch: I thought pre-BD Limbo lasted 3 months, but on further reflection I realize we had been slipping into limbo for about 2-3 years. It's probably true for most sitches here.

[Jac12]

I saw my L today to go over what's likely to happen.

She'd be paying approx $4500/month in child and spousal support but I'm hoping to keep the house and my investments instead of getting spousal support. Just because she makes good money doesn't mean I need it all. I just want financial stability and a decent house to grow up in for my son.

I'm hoping that when she sees her L and sees the figure close to that number I'll be able to offer less/month in return for keeping the house and my investments and she may see that as a fair compromise. Then hopefully it stays a little more amicable for my kids sake. The lawyer also mentioned that when she sees the numbers it may be a bit of a wake up call to her that fantasy land could be over.

I've decided to keep my ring on for now - my dad mentioned it might still show her that I'm committed to this marriage in the event she is going back and forth. It may help her to speak up and initiate a convo. However, I'm not really banking on that happening. Part of me also just feels like until we actually divorce I'm still married. No PA or EA has been confirmed (yet) so I'm still thinking she's struggling mentally whether she fully realizes it or not.

That said, she's being cold again like she was in December/January but this time she's not texting me or sending me things on instagram. Maybe she believes it's over now. I can't worry about all the ups and downs - I need to stay neutral.