Finding the Balance then Tipping the Scale (3)

[lost8]

Hey Adam...been a while for me. I have been away for a while and have just skimmed your sitch. It looks like you are still in some sort of limbo as W tries to figure it out. I was told over and over again the limbo was more time for you to work on you.

I noticed I had all this time and when I found myself and was moving on with enjoying my life instead of wondering when W would come around she dropped out of her fog and came running....she realized at that point where she wanted to be.

Use this time for you...continue to make yourself a better dad, a better person.

[Adam04]

Update:

I tend to make things long winded so will try to make it less so but no promises.

W said she feels like she has one foot out of the door but she isn’t looking at divorce. She said she has matters of the heart she needs to deal with for herself. She is seeing a therapist this Thursday and I told her no matter the outcome between us I support her decision to try and better herself.

At first I felt defeated like I lost, like all this was a sham. Then I got over it pretty quickly and I am not the angry bear I used to be or the person feeling victimized. I’m not 100% sure I have this figured out either. I’ve been trying to go at this with all the info I’ve gained and trying to do what’s right.

I think about going back to the apartment and what that would mean but it would come across as punitive so I am not doing it. I am taking my stance in the home and if it doesn’t work out she will need to divorce me there. Least this is how I see it for now unless there is something else major to consider.

I plan to take my kids out Friday and spend a night with a friend and his kids and take them out Saturday to go see Lion King. This past weekend W wanted to look for a matinee so we could warch it with the kids. I told my W my friend and I were planning to hang out over the weekend maybe Friday do some drinking and eating at his place and let the kids spend a night. Told her during a dinner and told her I woulda take the boys out to get them out her hair for a night and she could do whatever. She said something like she didn’t believe me and I laughed saying I didn’t think I had a tone or facial expression showing something other than just being straight faced and she said thank you.

Edit to add I was thinking of asking W she can join us if she wants.

So going back to transparency. I need help in this department and some clarity. She said she didn’t mind me changing her phone setting back to where the find me app can be turned back on and I’d have the password to her itunes login. She leaves her phone available for me to check and it has all 3 of her emails open on them.

I want to approach the right way. Does anyone have pointers because between now and the weekend I am thinking of saying something like this. I know this is a tough time for you and you nee time to figure things out but a non negotiable for me is full transparency so this means xxxxxxxxx. I need help with this part because how I see it it means access to phone at any time I request and also being able to check her location if she is out. Is there more or considering the timeframe of what’s going on, Is it best I be patient and bring this up later? Do I feel like she is doing something behind my back? I don’t think so and I would like to focus on trying to be more supportive at the same time making sure she knows I’m not placating to her because I am scared to lose her.

I have been thinking it may be best if we do get a divorce for several reasons but I don’t feel ready. I’ll see how this plays out and keep going with my life. I’ve been doing things by myself again , giving her space with the kids and i’m Planning to give her a break when I have the kids. We both deserve some breathing space and no I’m not worried about it she does do something. That’s on her and I’m good with my headspace on that.

Just looking for some guidance on the best way to approach or when to approach her on the full traparency and what that means for both of us. Main thing is where I want to be. I want to be patient, understanding, and confident showing her I accept where we are at and I guess for lack of better words I am not afraid to do the right thing.

[LH19]

Adam,

I am really sorry to read your recent update I thought for sure you were going to be a recon story to recommend to newbies. You sound like you have positive attitude either way.

On your question regarding transparency. IMO full transparency is for only when the WW has two feet in the door. If she has one foot out the door then it would seem to me to be more controlling.

[NicoleR]

Hi Adam,

I want to read more of your thread but it sounds like you and your wife have worked hard to stay married. It does seem like there are some situations where divorce ends up being the better option. I hope you can still avoid it, but it does seem you'll be in a good position to accept it if it needs to happen. Best wishes as you work through the next steps!

[Adam04]

LH, it’s been kinda hard the last month with putting all these feelings into words. It’s been a swirl of emotions. I’m trying to balance all the feelings and letting them come and go. I would love to say don’t count me out just yet but I think my feelings are changing about my Wife. I really don’t want to be with someone who will always doubt the relationship and wonder if she could be happier without me.

Nicole, it’s been tough trying to be in the mood to blog for several reasons. Right now I feel confused. Hopefully I’ll get the help I need to figure it out. I’ll update and try not to make it too lengthy.

Since last update I went out to my friends house Friday night. Another close friend came with his woman from out of town. I invited my W and she went with me. So we had me and my friends of over 20 years and our families. Kids are all around the same ages. We ate and drank and laughed. We were up to 3 in the morning carrying on and talking about making plans all together to visit a nearby vineyard. That Saturday we watched Lion King. W wasn’t distant. We hugged and kissed.

This past weekend W and I took our two boys to the beach and we spent two days at a resort. Had fun on the beach all day and at the pool. So from the other weekend to now W slowly over time stopped initiating the kissing. She’ll initiate a hug before work.

A few takeaways is she says she doesn’t know if she can be happy. She feels pressure but doesn’t want to divorce. She wants to work on herself to be stronger and then maybe the marriage but she wants to go at her own pace. She has seen a counselor twice now. We’re still cordial, hugging and kissing sometimes but she said she is scared that if we got intimate we’re going to sweep things under the rug. We still go to church and hold hands. Sometimes we do talk about the R and I believe she is confused and I think I am giving her space by not trying to smother her when I am at the house or by trying to engage in.

I am stil mindful of no pressure, DB, being self differentiated. It’s while being back at the house. On top of this I have to question my stance if I am coming from a place where I am showing respect and command respect back. I don’t want to appease her or placate. I’ve had my fair share of disagreements with her.

I’ve had severe headaches in the last couple weeks. I’ve been tired of the lying and just not sure where I want to be. I question my future happiness with this woman and if I can learn to trust her again.

As for me, I’m hitting the gym early in the mornings and coming home to spend time with the family. I told my wife if she is unhappy with me and she’s getting some professional help, that over time if she is still unhappy I will not stand in her way of divorcing but at the same time I need to see traction and some sort of transparency. I will not tolerate if she is seeing someone else. I told her we can cut ties and I told her that lately divorce has been on my mind too and it’s a scary thought so I will be seeking professional help to sort that out. I told her I was coming to her to let her know because I felt it was the right thing to do. I told her if I leave for the apartments again it will be for good, there won’t be any going back to think about things or to cool off. I’d have made up my mind and will be serving the papers. It’s not a threat. I think one year into it now my feelings for the most part are settled.

I believe I am doing what she should have done when she felt like she had one foot out the door and that was discuss it.

Here we are. We had gotten our older son a phone and we will be setting up some type of family sharing which wife said she has no problems with.

I still struggle a little with being patient and not feeling like w is still cake eating. If she did tell me there was someone else or she wanted to date I would have left her by now. If she said something happened In the past and asked for forgiveness then I could work on that.


I’m in the process of trying to sort out what I want and if I want that with my wife. I am looking at different therapists and watching videos on what’s best...so far I may focus on a marriage counselor with the John gottman experience.

Any pointers or words of advice?

[Adam04]

small update since I am at the apartment now.

As for where I am mentally and emotionally, I'm good. I kinda felt like with the way W and I had been going that things were moving kinda fast. Felt like we skipped some needed time to be patient and relearning things. We jumped right into it after physically separating.

12 days from last update and W is coming back to saying ILY but seldomly and calling me baby, etc. But more judiciously. We've had sex a few times. We hug and kiss. She's start the life 360 and add me and my son. So we're able to track each other. There was one instance where my phone didn't show her location and I told her about it. She thought I was accusing her of turning hers off which she showed me hers was on and she showed me the travel path. She said she gets deflated when she is trying and I make it seem like I am not grateful for her trying. I told her sorry it seemed that way but I was only going by what my app was saying which when we both were at home we were able to look at them and her phone showed her on but mine showed her off. Then we used the share location feature with the iphones. She's not had an issue being transparent. She's also said I could use her iTunes account password one time to download something for my youngest on her old phone for him. So I have access she has freely given.

I'm not going to say I doubled down on giving time and space but I backed off. It's hard to put into so few words. I remember so many things from here that I was mindful of. There are posts by Miler when his W was kinda one foot out the door. I remember a lot of Steve85's posts. A lot of Sandi's posts. R2C's posts about thinking of the outcome or consequences and deciding on the action and dealing with it. AS and LH, I read your advice to others daily.

Much of what I do or don't do is shared with others throughout this forum. We make mistakes, we learn from them, dust ourselves off and get back to trying to be better. I still have my struggles. I know to be patient. I know to think ab out things while they are going on and before I say or do something if it will help or hurt. I've bitten my lip when I felt it was the right thing to do and other times I've taken my stance with my W because I felt like it was the right thing to do.

My W is in counseling for herself and I think it's helping her. I haven't gone yet, but its on my mind. I'm not pushing and am okay with where we are at for now.

The last few weeks work has been crazy with converting over to a new system. One night W asked me how it was going when I was still at work. I said it was going okay but sometimes it gets tough. She earlier said she was taking the kids to her brothers house for dinner but said because it sounded like I was having a rough day she stayed back to be with me at home. I see she is trying in her own ways. She didn't like me pushing or prodding her in the "right direction.

I had been going out and even mentioned to W she should take some time off and do something for herself. Whether its with friends or family. I'm not backing off completely ignoring my family duties at home.

I don't want this to sound all about my W but she has put her wedding ring back on. She had the engagement band on but is now wearing both rings. I don't know and haven't really asked but I think this is a positive sign(not just the ring, but everything she has been saying and doing after her meltdown for lack of better words). Before, I was hesitant with all of what was going on. We will see.

Nothing has changed DB-wise. Remain self differentiated, cool, calm. Even when it feels like the world is crumbling underneath and you're confused. it's okay to be. What we do and say matters though.

I'm going out more, with the family, with the kids, with her side of the family, with friends, and even alone. I don't find it awkward anymore. I enjoy my time alone doing things for me.

I didn't let the one year mark from BD get to me. In fact I remember that day I was happy for so many things in my life. I chose not to come on here to make it bigger than what it was. I'll leave it there for now.

[AnotherStander]

Adam, those are some heavy updates there! Your W at one point said you are putting too much pressure on her and I agree. I would suggest you back off of her quite a bit. She does need to rebuild the trust but you can't keep hounding her about where she is and what she's doing all the time or it will backfire. Seems like you want her 100% all-in right now and she's trying to be but she's getting the impression that it's never enough for you. Just pull back and give this time to sort out. She's still got a lot of emotions swirling. Hopefully she follows through with the counseling, I think that will help.

And do try to get to RV, the two of you are struggling with communication right now and RV will give you some great tools for that. Tell her you've talked to people that have gone and that they highly recommend it for building communication skills. It is relationship-focused too, but the main thrust of it is building new paths to communicate better. Some people around here have called me a "validation guru", most of what I learned about validation was at RV.

Good luck and hang in there! Be patient!

[Adam04]

Thanks for the support AS.

I backed off and things are simmering down.

As much as I would have loved to make this all about me, its about my wife and I being together, trying to figure this thing out...

journaling what's happened over the last week or so.

With school, W and I share a calendar for the kids. We text throughout the day to discuss events, homework and daily things. W would always start with a Good morning text and I'd reply. I don't really initiate anymore like I had been before. It's something like 3 or 4 our of 10 times. And now W is saying she loves me every day especially in the mornings before work, and that is the only time I say I love you back to her or maybe before bedtime when she says it. I stopped being the one to say it first. I'm taking it a little more slowly this time around.

Last week W told me she was going to her counselor session and when I met her at home, she seemed vibrant and really happy. She welcomed me with a kiss and asked how my day was and it just felt surreal. I didn't ask or I don't ask about her sessions. She doesn't speak about them. Just lets me know when she goes. In the beginning she did say she had homework to do on herself and she liked this therapist who gave her homework to change the way she had been thinking. She's a few visits in now and it feels like a noticeable difference. Just my feelings, but I believe its really helping her sort her stuff out. I am truly happy for her to make that step for herself.

W and I aren't really on social media or on the computers like days of old. I am at my apartment right now on the computer. I haven't brought it to the house. I seldom visit the apartment to get on it nor am I on the ipad much at the house…. and that also means I get on here much, much less. It's hard for me to put into words the trade off I get from it. Evening times, I spend a lot with my youngest one at the dinner table drawing pictures with him and he now wants to be an artist. I almost feel bad. He was wanting to be a builder or architect. But now he loves to draw so much that he wrote in one of his school activity sheets that he wants to be an artist. If he's an art director somewhere that'd be really cool. Its been hard to keep this forum away from my kids and my W from looking at so I keep it at the apartment pc. I stopped having it up on the ipad and not having enough time to journal. The kids are quick to grab it sometimes.

W and I sometimes watch shows together on tv and that's our way of winding down together. Sometimes we lay in bed for an hour while the little one showers in our bathroom and we talk about the day or the kids. I don't be all up on her though. We're on our sides of the bed and she'd sometimes scooch over to me and cuddle. She comes to me a lot more. There are days she'd be on Instagram and show me what crazy stuff is on there. I still have access to her phone but I haven't checked it in a while. While I am on that, I don't have any feelings about what she told me of that guy that day. I don't really think about it. I've said to myself, "self, well this is enough to move on from. what do I want to do?" I asked. so I said I would forgive and keep it going.

My mother in law lives with us now. The other day, W said her mom talked to her and asked if I could drive her after work to a wake. I had been sick and told her I would rather not if it was back into town with the traffic and W agreed that by the time I got home, the wake would be over. She said she would let her mom know. Her mother doesn't speak English and there would be a communication issue with making sure we arrived at the right place, right time and everything else. The next day during a text exchange, I told my W that although I was sick with a cold and it might be late that it felt like the right thing to do was take her so that is what I was going to do. She said no worries and she had a cousin able to take her but she loved that about me and she loves me for it.

My W said she has been very happy and said we needed to discuss me dropping this apartment and asked what that would take. We have our 15th anniversary in October and she asked if we could celebrate it after going out of town to a friend of hers wedding reception which is also the same weekend as our anniversary. She wanted to celebrate our anniversary. I said okay. I asked her how she felt about Retrouvaille and said I think it could really benefit us with communication and she said yes. She asked if it could be after our 15th anniversary and I said sure.

Yesterday she was out on a lunch with a client. She said she got invited to a baseball game and I said okay have fun. She sends me a picture of her and one of the ladies sporting their club tshirts. I guess she didn't have to do that but she did that in a way I guess to show me she was with a female. I never asked who she was going with except the company. She had told me about this the day prior and said she might be at the game a little later to where she might ask me to pick up my little one from day care. I told her sure no problem and to let me know if she does stay later. Which the day of she did. She has been picking up my son from daycare every day even on days I said I would because I get home later than she does.

I didn't get any red flags from her being out with work folks and she's got the life360 on and we text throughout the day where she was sending me pix of her and the lady eating food and at the game. She did say something about sobering up and having to wait for that before driving which kinda got on my nerves. She said she didn't want me to worry about her driving and drinking and I told her I was okay if she drinks but not to the point I have to wonder or worry if she needs to wait however long to sober up. The convo never became about trust but just on drinking and driving because it had been raining. Maybe I was wrong to tell her but I mentioned to her what I thought would have been a reasonable thing to do. I said she was out from lunchtime in the middle of the day to early evening and if she knew she would be coming home she should have found an earlier reasonable time to stop drinking rather than saying she wasn't coming home yet because she was waiting to sober up. That just bothered me and sounded careless.

I slept early on some cold meds and in the middle of the night we both woke up and had sex and laid with each other until the morning and went to work. She initiated. Guess maybe she felt bad. I don't know.

W and I are splitting weeks where she takes the youngest to daycare one week and I do the next, we rotate to give the other person early time to get into work to work out and exercise.

As for sex, we have it a few times a week. When I eased up on touching like hand on shoulder or back or stopped some of the foot rubs or back rubs, it turned into her doing that for me. I let the tension build. Sometimes it feels really hot and heavy and we have explored other things as well to keep it spicy. I've commented on things and she has been willing to try different things so after 25 years we still have plenty of room to explore and find new and creative ways to pique the other's interest. Sorry if this is TMI. I don't normally know if this is even important in the grand scheme of things in assessing how well couples work at being together. Nowadays with hearing how women can use sex to keep the man on the hook it makes me wonder.

I'd like to think we are slowly rebuilding intimacy not just from the sex but everything else where we share moments and have these positive exchanges where she feels I am invested.

I feel like I am being patient living my life wanting to see signs. I want to hear my W admit and recognize her share of the dmg or deterioration to the marriage and that she is all in to saving it or all in to try recon before I give up this apartment. It's hard paying these extra bills and being at the house and having money going out there too. But for now, finances are okay.

I've seen firsthand how things can swing from left to right quickly in the blink of an eye. At first sign of what I thought was possible recon I was eager to share some of this personal growth. Not saying I'm pulled back 100% but I almost have. She's in counseling. We are working on it. We're slowly communicating better about the kids, us. We're in the same bed, not separated. We're slowly rebuilding that connection, that bridge. This time I am doing it slower. No rush.

Earlier her boss texted her random weekend text saying how all the guys at work went on a hunting trip and no one asked the women if they wanted to go. She said she would call some of the ladies up and asked if my W wanted to go wine tasting. She said sure. I told her I was all for it. I want both of us to live our lives and be happy. Right now, I am finding happiness where I can with her. I think with counseling we will agree at some point that we make our own happiness.

I look at this 3 day weekend like I have the whole world in front of me and my W is welcomed to come along if she wants. I plan to cook a new dish for this weekend and take my boys out somewhere. got the little one a new baseball t for the back yard so will do that too. Looking to get them new gloves.

okay so although I have been working out and increasing some of my normal eating back, we apparently splurged a bit this summer and I gained a few pounds back. Trying to double down on the working out for next month but to be better at overall weight loss going into 2020.

I don't plan to give my W an anniversary gift but maybe a card. Not sure if my stance will change on that. She seems she is on board to celebrating us being together. She's excited about it actually with getting the room. It'll be one night with us away from the kids after the reception party.

I cant predict what's going to happen. Trying not to think about the negative, but be in the moment and thankful for now. Even keeled, emotional control. GAL. That will be a shift of focus. I had been trying to deal and cope where I was good at doing most of it alone. I still go out to places alone. I'd have these small conversations with people on my own time. last two books I had been looking through and not serious reading was on pleasing the woman and the art of conversation. I've felt like I've been a bit of an introvert and needed time to come out of my shell. And, with that... clicking post.

[Adam04]

update:

Want to start by saying W and I have been co-existing well. Sharing responsibilities with the kids and having our alone time. Couple weeks ago she took me to a Texans game and it was fun.

Our anniversary is coming up and we will be out of town that weekend for her friends wedding. We plan to spend 2 nights just us at a resort. I'm thinking at this rate flowers and a gift wouldn't be bad because she believes and has said we are back together and I should move in.

We also have dates set up for just us in the future. She's got an out of town business trip with her boss who is also female for a couple days and we talked about what would be comfortable. She plans to facetime, send pictures of them and keep me in the loop. When she comes back it'll be on a Thursday and we plan to spend Friday just us.

We also have a trip planned with some very close friends to a local vineyard and we are all excited.

This doesn't mean everything is peachy and that we don't have disagreements. We both know we still have communication issues. And I still need to work on myself. My outlook isn't affected for the most part whether we make it or not, its not what used to be suffocating and to the point my head wanted to explode. I somewhat feel safe I still have the apartment so I am hesitant to make the next move. When she has mentioned R talk, I say I am patiently waiting and wanting to take things slowly.

The last argument we had (which was a couple days ago) was concerning her boss, who is also going through a divorce. Her boss just broke up with her boyfriend while she is still married. The boss's husband was the WAS and was caught cheating so the boss figured she'd date. My wife showed me the text of the guy breaking up with her via text. Told her the boss needs counseling and my W agreed. That woman is moving on to the next guy way too fast. My wife says her counseling is helping her sort her feelings out and feel a lot better. So my W sends her boss a text saying she is there for her with anything she needs and if she needs a girls night out to cry she would be there. She then asks me if this was alright. In the moment I said supporting her is fine but I don't feel 100% okay with you spending the night. This is where she got defensive and didn't know where I was coming from.

So after some reflecting and we both had a text exchange I said that I didn't have a problem with her supporting her boss or being there for a friend in need even if it was overnight, but I have a preference of wanting my wife home safe so I don't have to worry because just a couple days ago she was stuck in bad weather with two of her sisters. We had terrible rain here displacing a lot of people. I apologized and we seem to be picking right back up she saying words of affection. However, during this exchange she questioned how much time we had been spending together and I said it was because I thought we were fixing our relationship that I thought she may have needed to see I was around more opposed to before and she said she didn't have a problem with me being out and she sort of missed that. I'm definitely not overlooking this for many reasons. I do not want to come off as needy and too attached. I do take this as her being honest with me with us needing healthy space for ourselves. We've been communicating well for the last month and I think she was shocked to hear me say I had a problem with her being supportive of another woman in a dire time of need. I didn't mean for my being honest with my feelings to come across as something else like I didn't trust her or I actually had a problem with her being supportive so I caught myself and corrected that and its up to her to believe if I was sincere or not.

We even gained weight together over the summer and we are both now splitting meals and doubling down on working out. We were working out but this is like going to a restaurant for breakfast eating an 1100 calorie omelet, hashbrowns, with two mixed drinks for the day time and then drinking mixed drinks throughout the weekends and eating good at nights, steaks, wine, and all kinds of carbs. it was like 20 pounds of bad eating and drinking which we have cut back on lately.

So where does this put me? I agree that she and I need to spend time together yet as individuals doing our own thing. Do I think she has some hidden agenda? No. But I will not be blind to anything going on. I've not been posting here but I've been reading. And I don't plan to stop DB. I have been spending weekends with my kids taking them out. I also spend time alone, just to do it. Away from the wife and kids. Sometimes to clear my mind and to meditate.

When it comes to my relationship I have a whole list of things I try to be mindful of. Validate, show signs of appreciation and not just of her as my wife or mother but as an individual. Her mother lives with us and my wife screams bloody murder sometimes because she says they are so much alike but she cant stand some of the things her mother does. I use this to validate. I can understand why you would feel that way when she does x y z. Or that must be rough to deal with when she does that, I bet she makes you mad. Want me to beat her up for you? JK!
Then my W sometimes gives in especially when my mother in law hoards stuff or brings stuff over from where she was living. I tell my W things like I see what you did the other night and I'm glad you let your mom bring such and such over without saying anything. I tell her I'm sure your mom appreciates it and is thankful as well, even if she may not say anything. My W would say something like hearing thanks is the last thing I will ever get from my mom. Then I say your mom cooks for us a lot, and cooking for the family could be her way of saying thank you. I tell her I get it that sometimes hearing thank you would be nice.

My older son is taking French horn lessons and my second son is wanting to play a musical instrument too. He has a girl cousin who is also wanting to play violin. W and I agreed to take both of them at the same time to get lessons on a Saturday together at one of the shops around here. We both love the new area. Lots to do. My sister in law is busy with the newborn so she cant commit to taking her older daughter for music lessons so we offered. I actually was the one to tell my wife I would be okay to do that for her and she was happy about that. We are going to give it another week or two to see if the kids are still enthused about taking the lessons. My older one loves his private lessons and likes his band class and school all together.

Past weekend I took my older one out to a local comic book shop for his first time around here at the new place. It was more geared for adults with old b rated horror movies and Japanese manga toys and darker comics. Son picked out punisher as his first comic to get here and the guy gave it to him for free and he was thrilled. Then of course the younger one hears and was like dad so can we go to the comic book store too or what. I gave him a choice Chucky Cheese or comics and he naturally went with Chucky E Cheese. He was really good at a hopping/jumping game and we won a lot of tickets last night.

My older one loved our drive together as father son and we had a lot of time to talk about his school, him liking girls, his book he likes to read. W told me she got an email from his school that its an adult book with adult content like kissing. We spent almost 3 hours driving looking at all the neon signs in the big city looking for places to try out. He talked a lot, being comfortable in the passenger seat. I showed him 2 and 10 on the steering wheel. Told him how my step dad taught me how to drive, which was reckless back in the day. My son wants to learn so I am going to teach him somewhere in the open one of these upcoming weekends.

Both of my kids have been practicing baseball from the last time I got their baseball tee and some rubber practice balls. These kids seem to have a natural affinity to some of these sports. My younger one always impresses me, he is pretty good at picking up on the sports he plays like basketball. Him being ambidextrous still with dribbling two balls simultaneously up and down the sidewalk is pretty amazing at his age. He can still draw and write with both hands and his artwork is getting more detailed. The only thing is he does still like to copy. He needs inspiration so I draw a lot of things and he is able to copy my drawings pretty well. The older one he's on his pc games.

I don't know the future with my Wife. I mean, I don't feel like she's hit rock bottom but she has been willing to give this another shot. With that whole thing about my feelings and being honest, I wasn't sure if I was also being somewhat controlling in saying I didn't like it if my W was spending the night somewhere else. If my friend was in need and I was able to support them I would hope my W would be understanding and whatever issues we had could wait. So I believe I was at fault for not understanding and has since apologized for it.

I don't consider myself piecing or starting to recon yet. My wife is showing signs and doing things like willing to be transparent and communicate but there are still those moments of flare ups I think where she doesn't understand how I am feeling or the magnitude of it all.

Okay for the awkward part regarding intimacy. We're still at it pretty consistently I think enough for both of us throughout the week and my focus is on her and making sure she gets pleased. If we're having sex at least 4 times out of the week I'd initiate 3 and her 1. I've communicated I'd like to see more of her initiating or that I like it when she does this or that and it makes her feel sexy and naughty. She has started to initiate more. And when we kiss it could be anything from brushing of the lips and light touching to full on darting tongues and being rough.

I know my situation didn't follow the typical hitting rock bottom and now we are on the road to success path. I am working with that I got and trying to keep working at this with DB principles in mind.

for now my wife seems to have given me another chance and we are trying. We both seem willing. Do I believe she is 100% all in, no... because she will react to how I act and if I'm the one making it hard, she will naturally want out. So I still have to be aware of areas I can continuously improve on and make my 180s stick. Detachment and GAL doesn't stop. I'm aware that even if I do everything perfectly, she can change her mind tomorrow. I don't want to wallow or have self pity. Its funny my W has communicated several things she notices that has bothered her. Some I validate and others I go that must suck and she'd ask if it bothers me and I go nope.

Mind you, we are Asian (I'm mixed) and we have eaten at this Vietnamese restaurant today. Usually many of the Vietnamese patrons use toothpicks which they have at the counter just like they do at many other restaurants. Wife one time commented she didn't like when her mother gets the toothpicks from the front and picks her teeth in the restaurant. She says its gross. She used to not have any issues with this for many years until some recent enlightenment of I know nothing about... and back when I was growing up before meeting Asian people, I had the same thoughts like she does now. I thought it was gross to burp, slurp, smack, or pick your nose or teeth in public. Then when I moved and was around other Asians I was made aware of their culture. Guess in embracing it, I accepted it and took it as normal. It was a long time to change my viewpoint and sometimes it does still bother me but not to any great extent. Okay, so after lunch my mother in law grabs two toothpicks, one for her and she hands me one. My wife shoots me the side stare and as my mother in law alrdy has the toothpick in her mouth, I tell her thank you and do the same. I cant recall if I looked at my wife for her disproval or kept it moving. Probably kept it moving.

its time for me to get my car washed. had it for a few months without a wash and need to get some of the empty bottles thrown out and the car vacuumed before my older one goes to his Sunday school. BTW, we put both boys into their bible school to learn stuff for their first communion. Hope I said that right.

If anything sounds out of the normal and I need to pay special attention to, please let me know. Whether its her or me or both. Retrouvaille is still in the works btw. I am trying to make it less about my needs and just being detached for now. I saw when I was being honest about my feelings that she wasn't ready for that. There can be a better place to communicate and I am okay with not making it all about me. I still need to work on those urges or times when I can tell this woman how I feel. IC will be in my future for that to sort out my feelings.

In my head I will always have this idea she needs to hit rock bottom before we recon and I don't see her doing that so I don't feel like we will ever recon but it hasn't stopped me from living and enjoying life. With food and wine, it was a little too much enjoying. Its like going through the motion of a slow turn in what could be a turning point in the relationship.

[ovrrnbw]

Hi Adam,

just wanted to say hello. I'm still following your thread. I hope your anniversary trip goes well. Keep up the good work.