Rose I can understand her concern and why. Especially with S1. Is it within reason? Maybe? But this isn't an isolated incident with always having the need to check in on me with him. She said she is going to work on her "mom brain responses"
You don't have to agree to any of this and she can't do anything without your consent. That much I know. She can't do a refi, take out an equity loan, nothing without your consent.
So talk to your lawyer. Take a deep breath. And don't worry about her arbitrary deadlines. Obviously this will upset her. Listen and validate.
What I can tell you is that you say way too much. And on Sunday no WAY should you have restarted the conversation.
One piece of final advice. Being nice will get you further than playing hardball. "We are going here, and here, watching fireworks, dropping brother off and then driving home." Use common courtesy. Technically you are right, it is none of her business. However, you should let the mother of a 1 year-old know what the plans are.
And the lack of calling son during the week, to me as a fellow father, is inexcusable. I would have called every day. Or at least texted her to ask how he was doing. Can't say your way of handling it was wrong, but it isn't how I would have approached it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Funny Uni. I just had one of those moments last night and this morning with W about blame shaming, gas lighting, never being satisfied, justifying her actions, accepting no responsibility and blaming me for not meeting her needs and demands, not kowtowing to her hissy fits, and calmly but deliberately just blew it all up last night and detonated everything, hit the eject button, blew the bridge and said F@$! It! We are divorcing and I am somewhat relieved.
IH I am going to get real with you here. Do you feel better now? All you did was prove to her that she was right the entire time. That this is the real you and the last 12 months was you being fake trying to control the situation. Why are you here? DB is about being the lighthouse and keeping the road home paved smoothly. AS has posted often that even MWD wished she would have stressed more that this process takes much longer then most people think. You just had to have the last word. Look man I am going to be honest with you when I say you have a ton of work to do moving forward. I stopped reading your posts because the majority of them are demeaning to women. If I can feel it here there is no doubt in my mind your W had to feel it. You have indicated that this has happened to you 5 times. I think you need to look at the common denominator. I know you say your are done and have never been better but I feel like we have heard that multiple times from you in the past. Instead of searching for articles that back up your story that all women are evil and vindictive, I think its time to look in the mirror and decide if you have been through enough pain and if there are any truly genuine changes you can make moving forward.
Sure there are changes I can make moving forward. I may never change. I may change once I am alone seperated and divorced. Its not my choice. But anything, and any life is better than the current situation, I have been progressively experiencing for 10-12 months. The only way I am ever going to change is by letting this all go, and I can't do that anymore in IHS. I can't do that. I can't do that when she wants out. I can't do that if I have to experience her emotional blame about why I can't stick to her agenda and timeline, and I get more blame and shame about what it doesn't work for her. I handled it as calm as I could. I still have attorneys to consult with. she wants to refinance by the end of the month and consolidate all of our debts, and she wants an answer by this Friday. It got a little heated. We both calmed down and agreed to work together to push forward, work together to make this happen. Im miserable dealing with this and living life like this. All of you here encouraged dropping the rope, so I did. She wants divorce. She seems hesitant first, so I asked her several times are you sure this is what you want? She's sure. I'm not going back on this process. Im done waiting around for her to figure out herself, her identity, the marriage, where she wants to live, and who she wants to blame for it. Im tired of everything being all my fault and never being appreciated for the things I did do right. People here say I'm dismissive and she has said the same thing I'm going to try and work on that while working through this process. Im not looking back. I deserve better treatment then when I've been getting slowly a death by a thousand paper cuts over the last 10 months. I'd rather be alone and focus on my own life. I don't think all women are evil and vindictive, and I know my attitude and actions to play a role in this. But the only way I'm never going to change to get out of the situation. only then can I stop thinking about the 24/7 and be relaxed and put my focus back on myself.
maybe she'll change her mind and look back. Maybe I'll change. Maybe I won't? all I know is I wanted a family and a home and not some woman who wants to go gallivanting across the country in an RV as a single mom for her fantasy future. I'm not saying it's crazy or impossible, but she needs to take a good look in the mirror to what she's doing and who she is and what she's going to wind up with. all of you here Advocate not putting up with the bull$hit of the WAW and WW. Well I'm not anymore. I'm tired of shouldering the entire blame for the failure her life choices. Im not going to wait around anymore. I'm not anyone's plan b. She threw it in my face to love and to cherish. So I replied back but what about in bad times and good. I guess you only wanted the good times. it's funny how people have a lack of commitment accuse you of not being committed, and project it onto you. As much as it hurts I have to move forward, I don't have the patience left to hold out for this marriage anymore. Now I can relax my mind of her and put my mind on moving forward. so yeah there is a little bit of pain and regret but there is also relief. I'm choosing not to lie around for 2 years to see what happens. maybe we'll get back together after divorce and maybe we won't I really don't care anymore.
IHC, one of the things we always say is that it is always your choice to go ahead and get a D. Sometimes I will caution people that come to this point to make sure that it is REALLY what they want. The reason I do that is because sometimes the WAS makes things miserable for the LBS so that the LBS will do the dirty work of the D. So, do you want to divorce? If the answer to that question is yes, and you feel that you've done all you can do, that you can look back and without any regrets, and that when the time comes you can look your kids in the eyes and honestly tell them that you did everything in your power to avoid D, then I say go for it. If you have a problem with any one of those things then I would seriously consider giving it some more time. Only you can decide, but will another hour, day, or week, or even month really make that big of a difference at this point?
I do want to challenge you on one thing. You said: "The only way I am ever going to change is by letting this all go, and I can't do that anymore in IHS. "
And then you said:
"All of you here encouraged dropping the rope, so I did."
If the only way you can let all this go is to move for D, then how exactly have you "dropped the rope" up until now? Dropping the rope is sometimes not really understood, and I think you may have misunderstood it. Dropping the rope is not something you do, then stop and look back to see how she will react. That is not dropping the rope, that is letting it go ready to grab it again as soon as you feel you need to. Dropping the rope is dropping it and walking away (figuratively, not literally). It is really letting her go figure her stuff out and merely going on about your business of GAL, etc.
So did you really drop the rope? I would say with your mindset of the first quote above that you probably did not.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hey Steve. I just got to that point where I'm so miserable in that house, in this situation with her, other than when I'm doing some GAL things Im just F@$KIN MISERABLE. I feel ignored, used, disrespected, unwanted, unloved, gas lighted, blamed, shamed and plenty of other things. I made a lot of bad mistakes and I feel really guilty about them I'm going to have to take that to the grave. I haven't made much improvement on any of them between all the conflicting advice on the way I interpreted here, and because I'm always focused on this 24/7, and never on myself. Im just ready to say F@$K it, the house, and her and move on. Its just not worth the mental stress to me anymore. Always reading different things here and elsewhere always focusing on this. Sure I intellectualize it but I don't know how to apply don't know if I'll ever change. I'm just the way I am and she is the way she is despite both of us doing our own individual work on ourselves. I've gradually Seen Her Go from 50% to 80% to 99% divorce in 10 months, change her plans several times on depending on her circumstances and monetary situation. Seeing all these wild and crazy ideas for these independent lifestyle fantasies across the country, some probability of an OM but no confirmation. every time we have to have a discussion about the logistics I get to hear the blame and shame list again because she thinks I'm holding her back and holding her up and I've always operated things on my own timeline and she's felt dismissed throughout the marriage. She's right for years it was my way or the highway. I've done a lot of bad $hit and I wish I could make up for it but I can't it's too little too late. in the beginning of our marriage I knew it was going to end this way because I'm a F@$k up with a good heart, and I make too many mistakes. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of mine with relationships. I knew she was eventually going to leave me seven years ago because everything she demanded of me I didn't fulfill an on her timeline, but i did fulfil it. On the other hand a lot of these things I've been blamed and shamed for some of them haven't been that much big of a deal but maybe it was to her. People say they like to forgive and forget but they don't ever forget. They will bring that $hit up 5 years later. I'm done with people who think and act like this. (Insert misogynist comment here.) So much trust has been broken, with absolutely no attempt on her and to attempt to repair it with me. she doesn't like the silent tension around the house that she created with her hardened heart. When in all truth the only thing I was doing was giving her her space. I've initiatied way too many relationship talks over the last 10 months. probably validated to her way too many things that I was guilty of what I can't change in the past or demonstrate now unless it is towards what she wants which is to sell the house and get away from the marriage. I don't want to be Plan B I don't want to C or Plan D. I know it sounds egocentric but I will not be strung along waiting in the wings in case she actually does make a mistake and decides to return after exploring her new life, and her new super awesome Confident self that she's looking at hopefully to metamorphosize into a butterfly from all the self-help stuff she reads but never applies. (Sound familiar?) I don't want to wait around for 2 years while she gets to start a new life. Make new friends and supposedly travel around the country. I don't want to keep criticizing her and I don't want her to keep criticizing me. we are both tired of going for the jugular with each other every time something important comes up and my decisions don't agree with hers. I'm just sick of it. I just want peace, and just want to be happy me again. So last night I said F@$k it. I took that last 1% of doubt in her mind I pushed it right over the edge. She had her little moment, cry. Ask a few questions talked about some more casual things and she went to bed. I was almost stoic about it. I love her dearly but maybe this is for the best after all. I want to give her time and space but not at the expense of breaking up the family and dividing the marital home. I have broken too many trust issues because of my lack of actions and my bad attitude, and avoidance on certain things for a time. I'm tired of getting a list of all the things I didn't do get thrown at me every time things get heated and shouldering the blame for everything about why she's so unhappy. It sad I've never got acknowledged for all the good and wonderful things I did since she became this person 12 months ago. I've been having nightmares and I haven't been sleeping, haven't been eating well and haven't been taking care of my health. been working overtime like a dog. The house is a dump and I'm too tired and too uninterested to even attempt anything. and the whole time I'm asking myself why am I wasting my time and my money and my life in this situation for a family and a W that doesn't want anymore. I've been putting too much emphasis story telling and story reading on here and other places. I can't nice her back and I can't mean her back, I can't change her back and I can't demonstrate that I've changed which I probably haven't much I don't think I ever will. she doesn't want to work on it. She wants to mediate with me towards divorce. I just said fine. What am I going to do fight her on it? Im resigned and miserable. I'm still a little sad and angry but I do feel a bit relieved. I'm just at a point where it's like you know what? the hell with it it's just a house it's just a legal piece of paper and just a meaningless declaration. She wants her Freedom? She can have it and she can keep it. I'm tired of working towards all this division, when I could be working towards regaining myself and a life without her. I don't want it to be this way orwa end this way. But it's not going to be at the cost of my mental sanity anymore. I'm tired of fighting it. I'm just going to go with it and get it over with. we are both going to work together towards the mediator the divorce and a division of everything and the house still I just want to get this done and over with. too many trust issues have been violated and neither one of us is willing to work on it together so what the hell is the point? we might as well both agree to divorce and both work together towards it in a friendly manner and be good co parents. we may be attending a few family functions together but I know it doesn't mean anything. I'm not turning course from this. I have to run this ship until the land because of her decisions to end the M then I will. I'm not done loving her but I'm done with this marriage, and I'm done with the situation. Sorry if I'm an all-or-nothing guy. Just the way I am. Im going to have to divorce to be able to work on me. If he sees any changes and wants back okay great if she doesn't okay great either way. I've made enough mistakes I've gotten enough guff, and I've experienced enough pain to know when to quit. I'm done focusing on ever considering reconciling. I need to just plow through this hammer out the logistics get it done and move on with my life as much as it hurts me to do it
The only thing that concerns me is "I am this way and that's the way it is" attitude. I think that might be where your marriage and DBing went off the rails. I'd have to go back and look, but I remember right you are not in IC. I think you said something (again sorry if I am not remembering correctly) about not believing IC.
IHC, you can't change what you don't acknowledge. The real question that I have after these last few posts is "why does IHC run in the face of hard work?" That is not a question I want you to answer. It is a question I want you to ponder. None of our sitches were easy. All of them were hard. Some ended in D, some ended in R. But to me the real difference between those that are successful in DBing (D or R) and those that are not is that those that are successful can objectively look at themselves and say "These are the things I need to change!" Those that can't do that, or won't do that, well those are the ones that are doomed to drag around the emotional baggage of their failed marriages for the rest of their life.
You can't change the past. The future isn't written yet. You do get to make choices in the present though. And the choices you make today will mold the future you have to live. I am not going to tell you your decision is wrong because I don't know if it is or not. What I will tell you is that D or R, you have the opportunity to be a better version of IHC today and tomorrow than you were yesterday. Seize the moment. Get into IC and work through your issues, your shortcomings, and most importantly, your fears!
Now go do the right thing.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hey Steve. I have acknowledged plenty. I've had plenty of therapy over the years, and read so many psych articles, and books, and the DSM V but that doesn't mean I can change my whole personality. I can be more aware of things. Attempt to respond differently to certain situations, rehearse an action plan if I find myself in one of those situations. Attempt emotional regulation. But it feels so rehearsed. But the way I think act and feel is the way I just am. My thoughts are my thoughts, meaningful, scattered, over analytical, emotional, my choices are sometimes good and concise and sometimes poor. I have a low frustration tolerance, and a medium temperament. With histrionic negative mindset sometimes. I snap out of it and get positive, but not until I find a release for that emotion. Mild impulse control, etc. Some day that I want to do the work and other days I don't. I was just talking to the wife about this tonight. I don't want to filll my head with anymore complexities than I already have. It's almost like reading 500 text books on psych and behavior and the author saying to be more like what we say and less like yourself. I want to change I just don't know if my deeply ingrained personality will ever let me. People here tell me all the time I write too much I think too much I feel too much, I don't think enough. I talk too much, my opinions are too controversial, too broad or too narrowminded. I seek attention too much. The truthful matter is I'm not seeking attention from anyone. I do enjoy it. Especially from female companions and loved ones I can relate to. But I don't need it. Trying to figure out how to be a better improved version of myself, is like saying. I know what I have to change but i don't know how to do it in action. just because I understand something intellectually and emotionally. doesn't mean I know how to consistently apply it. I'm one of those stubborn people that desires change and always wants to better himself, but can't seem to stay committed to it. the only way people like me learn is through hard times and pain, where the risk is so great that the reward forces you to change. I think I need to be alone for once in my life to figure that part of me out. it's difficult unlearning bad habits and creating new ones. sometimes I wonder if I'm a product of my environment and my upbringing, and my social and work environment. I just don't know? it's weird I've always known who I am but I never knew who I wanted to be, but yet I wanted to be like everyone else but yet I still want to be me more. I explain things so much cuz I always feel misunderstood. it's really hard for me to let go of who I was and am and begin to whom I want to be.
This has no reflection on you good sir or anyone here for that matter. Someone once told me. "Opinions are like @$$holes, everybody's got one." (That my construction blatency coming out in me.) I'm loaded with opinions so I guess that makes me an @$$hole. I find a lot of truth in that statement though no one ever interpret the world the way yourself does. Some personalities play well together and some don't. there was a demonstration I saw once on this CD about how Benjamin Franklin develop his character principles and how every time he met someone new he tried to improve on them, I brought that into therapy years ago. Do you think I followed through with it or change anything about me as a result of it? I'm too busy just trying to live like everyone else I don't know how much time I can do go to work on myself. This is why therapy is useful to me but meaningless. I learn so much but its hard for me to keep a beginners mind and apply it. Im not making any sense anymore. Sorry for the ramble. I'm addicted to this site, my situation and everyone's stories so much that I've forgotten how to be myself at times, and focus my energy on myself.
Hey IHC, well I’m glad you have decided this is what will be best for you. I know we talked recently about making the W do the dirty work and file. Now that D is what you believe you want, will you be filing? It’s a tough situation but if that’s what you believe will be best for you, good on you man!
