If she was determined to leave she would. She's legally, probably, entitled to be in the house. So perhaps you just work on making sure that your actions are congruent with your feelings, and anything kind you offer to her is offered freely, whether or not she is cheating, whether or not she wants to divorce you.
Thanks Alison. That's different than I was defining it - I was thinking of cake eating as her dangling litte bits here and there to keep my hope alive while she evaluates the strength of her EA and keeps me as plan B. Seems to me that DB is not really keeping your actions congruent with feelings. I let my true feelings out on her Saturday night when I told her to get out and laid in to her about her betrayal and my distrust for her. This would be so much easier if we didn't have a D6, she wants to move out of state with her in a year.
Anyway, had a unusual (so far) interaction with wife this morning. I was in my room with door closed working on some job app stuff, she came in and asked me if anything was wrong. I said no, she said I had given her a dirty look. I said I didn't mean too, then she broke down in tears. She talked about how she was so sad about everything. I told her I was sad too. She said she wished we could have a do over and asked me if I thought she was having a MLC. I said I didn't know and did my best to validate the rest of her statements. This is the first time she has shown any hint of remorse for her actions. I know the mantra is believe nothing she says and only half of what she does, but still trying to make some sense of it.
I know she's no where near any kind of R and she will probably regret the things she said to me this morning, she frequently flip flops her thinking and desires. I also know I just need to keep DB'ing. Even if there was an attempt to R, the fact that there was and EA (or worse, who knows) will make it much harder for me. Appreciate any advice from anyone who has been through this.
Well, I am not very good at DBing... And I do think there's a lot of benefit in the 'fake it until you make it' type of attitude. And I think even if you feel like shouting at someone and calling them names (not suggesting this is what you did...) then it is better to talk to them calmly, even if you don't feel calm.
I guess the congruent thing to do with anger is to say 'I can't interact with you respectfully right now so I am going out,' or something like that?
I also think that sometimes we LBS seem to attribute a lot more planning and control to the WS than they actually have. It's probably not accurate, and it also keeps us as victims. My H has treated me appallingly and I have allowed it, for reasons of my own (and that's on me) - but I really don't think he ever planned to 'throw some crumbs and keep her as plan B until I decide what I want' - I just think he's confused and flailing and doesn't have the self control or emotional intelligence or relationship skills to take responsibility, say what he wants and move towards it. None of that makes his behaviour acceptable, of course - but if the cake-eating has happened in my situation, it's because I've been feeding him, not because he's been engineering the situation. The worst thing is - I'm not even really a LBS, I kicked him out!
So I don't feed him things I don't want to give him. Right now that means I am basically civil when I open the door to him, but nothing else.
It sounds like your wife is really sad about the situation. It is sad. She'll no doubt be in pain and confusion. So are you. I think you don't have a responsibility to comfort her or shield her from the consequences of her decisions and where you are both at now. She feels insecure about your affections and seems to want reassurance, and that's because you are very uncertain.
Another way of looking at cake-eating that has been helpful to me is that cake-eating denies the facts of the situation. The facts of my situation are that I don't like how my H treats me and it isn't acceptable. I won't accept it. I don't enjoy his company and I don't believe him when he says he wants to work on things. Those things are true, and I try to keep my actions consistent with those facts.
You’re probably right Alison. She doesn’t have some master plan that she’s executing and is just flailing around like me. What makes it so hard is the loss of control. Not that I was ever a controlling husband but once they give you the BD you are basically done. I know the answer is to let go and work on yourself but that is sooo much easier said than done, especially in the midst of in house separation. I’m also so torn between detaching and doing 180’s. I was already pretty detached in our R which was a lot of the problem. Remaining detached is more of the same. Communicating concern and interest in her with stuff like “have a good day”, “how was your day, how was work, etc.” would be 180’s and is exactly what the OM is doing but I don’t feel that is detaching.
To me it means not reacting emotionally to her words and actions, even on the inside. Not trying to interpret her words/actions and determine what she really means. Letting her go.
So hard to do when we interact every day but I do want to stay together in house for the benefit of our daughter.
Here's an update to my sitch - quite a bit has happened since my last post.
After I confronted wife about her EA a couple of weeks ago I sensed a change in her. Contrary to DB techniques and advice, I laid it all out in a R talk several days later. I asked for 1 year of effort to be "all in" for our marriage. She said she had to think about it. Almost a week went by without an answer but her actions were telling me that she wanted to move forward with an attempt at R - spending time together on the weekends and planning a family trip together for the 4th. Finally she told me last week that she "thinks she wants to work on the marriage" but she is scared. She thinks we need to both continue to work on ourselves in IC and then eventually MC, I agree. Right now we have agreed to "date" and try to rebuild trust and connection, I know this is going to be hard.
On Saturday we got a babysitter and went out together for the evening. We had a great time until the end - we started talking about the R and our friends opinions, etc. One of the things I'm going to have to get past is the hurt of her EA - previously I was very "emotionally unavailable" so I thought it would be a good idea to open up about how I'm currently feeling about it. I told her I can't be "all in" if she is continuing to text the OM, she said that he has texted her once since our R talk and she did not respond. I started to press for more details on the EA, she didn't want to give them and I said I need to know more in order to move past it. She said it was too soon to be discussing this, I disagreed and everything spiraled down from there - a great night ended in a fight.
We discussed it the next morning as I apologized for continuing to press after she said no, she reiterated that she's not texting with him anymore and I agreed to not bring it up again until we are both in a place where we can agree to discuss it. Hopefully not too much damage was done.
So I don't think I'm quite at the piecing stage but certainly not DBing anymore either. I'm looking for advice from others that have been at this stage on how to move forward, maybe Steve85? I'm very thankful that there seems to be a chance for our marriage but things are so fragile that I want to make sure I do everything right to give us the best chance of R.
Appreciate any advice others can give who have been through this.
Your trying to control her. You're treating her like a child. If you read my threads you'll see I struggled with this too.
Here's the thing, what you said to her above IS NOT TRUE. Stop with the controlling, that's what pushed get into the EA to begin with. So what if she's still in contact with him? Your goal is to be the better option, not control who she's texting with.
And what the heck good is knowing the details of the EA going to do? How is that possibly going to help you get past it?!?
Here's the deal. She's says she wants to work on it. Better yet her actions are showing that. 180 on the controlling behavior and let the EA go. Work on you so that MR 2.0 will have a fair chance with a new Dadhurt. If you do that, there is a good chance the texting of OM will die a slow death. The problem we sometimes fall into as LBHs is trying to find solely on things out of our control. She could stop texting OM today, and start a new EA tomorrow with another OM! What you can control is becoming AMOAFWL! That's how you end EA#1 and prevent future EAs.
And being a whiny wuss about EA#1 ain't being AMOAFWL!
My advice, keep up the dating, stop discussing the EA, keep doing IC to work on you, and stop trying to control your W before you control her right out of the MR!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So I don't think I'm quite at the piecing stage but certainly not DBing anymore either.
You are always in the DB stage brother. It is about improving yourself. If you have reached the top of the mountain, let us know how the view is.
That is good news for you that you are able to take a couple steps forward. I agree with steve, knowing details doesn't help move forward. Trusting again is a difficult thing, I am 100% certain if I get to where you are at I will struggle to trust her again. There is a difference in my mind between 'open and honest' vs controlling though. You telling her what she needs to tell you is controlling. Perhaps you could ask her to create a plan that demonstrates her dedication to restoring your trust? That way it is her plan, she puts effort towards restoring the M, and it makes it her plan vice yours. Just a thought I had.
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
Thanks guys, what you’re saying makes sense. Wife and I talked about how we need to be open with our feelings and not hold stuff in (which I’ve done in the past) so I’m obviously still thinking about the EA and wanted to be honest with that but can see how that is controlling. I’ll focus more on becoming AMOAFWL.
Finally she told me last week that she "thinks she wants to work on the marriage" but she is scared. She thinks we need to both continue to work on ourselves in IC and then eventually MC, I agree. Right now we have agreed to "date" and try to rebuild trust and connection, I know this is going to be hard.
Apparently harder than you thought because you already screwed up in a big way. You have got to listen to her! What did she say? She is SCARED. You need to respect that. How do you? Well certainly not by pressuring and arguing which is exactly what you did. LISTEN and VALIDATE. That is ALL. Like Steve said, you're treating her like a child and if you continue that then she will run away again, maybe for good. You have got to be hyper sensitive to avoiding conflict with her right now because it will look like "more of the same" behavior when she is looking for CHANGED behavior.
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One of the things I'm going to have to get past is the hurt of her EA - previously I was very "emotionally unavailable" so I thought it would be a good idea to open up about how I'm currently feeling about it.
What??? NO NO NOOOOO this is not the time to start "opening up" about anything! Picture yourself walking on a very thin sheet of ice, you have to tiptoe and carefully shift your weight to keep from falling through. LISTEN and VALIDATE. Quit trying to dump all your feelings on her, she is still raw and "scared" and she has to get past that first. You can help her by.... yes you guessed it, listening and validating. If you don't know exactly, and I mean EXACTLY what I'm talking about then start reading up on it.
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I said I need to know more in order to move past it.
All you need to know is that it stopped. You already know why she did it, because you were checked out. So check back in.
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We discussed it the next morning as I apologized for continuing to press after she said no
Good, now let it go!
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So I don't think I'm quite at the piecing stage but certainly not DBing anymore either.
LB is right. You need to DB now more than ever. Listen and validate, turn off your NMMNG tendencies, continue to get out and GAL and let her as well.
