As kml said, without a court order there is really nothing you can do about W, OM, and the kids.
Attempting to reason with her, make an arrangement, or alike, is futile; and most likely will be used against you. I am sorry to say it is best to just save your breath.
If the children are being mistreated or such, then most definitely get involved and get legal protection. Most MLCers do not get to that point. However, quite a few do try to limit their responsibilities, which includes the children. What was the custody settlement?
Hamburg, the pain and sting does pass, fades out of the everyday, and even out of recollection. You are getting closer every step, and every day.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thanks guys. Custody is 50/50. At least I have that. I had a restraining order temporarily but it's too difficult to get in a final decree. I guess time will only tell. W had always said her dad was her rock and foundation as her mother jumped from man to man for 25+ years. I suppose the cycle will just continue.
For STBXW, yes she is a crisis. She is caught up in this cycle, which started long ago during her upbringing. She has to go through it.
What about your kids?
You can break the cycle Hamburg.
A crisis is caused from long ago trauma(s), events that the MLCer was incapable of understanding or accepting and therefore internalized and took on the blame. They blamed themselves for what happened with, or from, that person of authority in their young lives.
My last post I told you to save your breath trying to keep kids from W and OM. Any attempt at controlling STBXW is futile.
So what can you do?
You focus on you and the kids.
Be the best Dad possible. Ensure that your children understand that they are not responsible for their Mom’s crazy behaviours. How? Talk to them. Explain MLC. Give them an understanding, a reason, an acceptance, of what is happening and happened. Show them it is not their fault! Break the cycle.
You do not demonize STBXW, or talk bad about her, or belittle, or talk down, etc. - your kids are half made up of her. They will already wonder if what Mom is doing is inescapable, you know genetic, in their blood kind of thinking. Kids know they have the traits of their parents, they need to understand.
MLC is emotionally driven right from the start. An emotional trauma, something the young person could not yet understand or accept stunted them, damaged them and started their path.
Emotions are irrational, the “reasoning” and “understanding” that a young person will create to explain this will be irrational. This incorrect assuming of guilt, shame, and blame is incorrect - to us. However to a young person unable to articulate what they are feeling, it is very real, and gets push down into themselves. It will surface - later.
Break the cycle.
Your kids healing, understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, starts with and flows from you. Is demonstrated by you. Be the best Hamburg you will be! Not can be - will be! Make it happen.
Harsh reality time. Sorry.
The OM is a man of significance in the kids’ Mom’s life.
You and the kids don’t have to like it. You and the kids don’t have to condone it.
What I meant was the cycle will continue on W's part.
The kids and I always have fun. We recently had our first trip as a one parent family and it went well. We are going to the beach in a few weeks. It was difficult but I can handle it. During moms time this summer they go to a school-sponsored day care program. On my time I keep them with me. The sad thing is, they don't like their moms new house, nor do they want to go back with her every other week. She blames me for setting "false expectations" because I'm financially set and can take them to do anything they want. However, we do many things that don't cost any money and get quality bonding time. I work 16 shifts per month and get kids during my off weeks, so I've put my personal life on hold.
They are in counseling once per week. Per W counselor said they are doing well and can go to twice monthly sessions. This is coincidentally when W has to start paying half the cost. Counselor has not informed me of this. I offered to pay full cost indefinitely but the judge said no (non covered medical expense). We had a deal to inform counselor ahead of time as to when we would introduce new romantic interest to the kids. This would give them a month or so to focus on that. We go back next week and I plan on informing her that OM has been around kids and we need to discuss with kids. I dont think that an arbitrary time when the papers are signed is a signal to drop back on counseling. They will need it for quite some time. I wouldn't know how to explain W confused state to the kids, but will talk to counselor about it.
I am sorry for any misunderstanding. I know you are not referring to your kids when speaking of the cyclic appearance of MLC. I understand you were referring to W’s journey.
And that is more of what my post is about. Hamburg is going to do whatever he can to stop this from continuing.
Forgive me for the forceful encouragement. I find that words have an almost innocuous way of getting into our heads and hearts. They then compound, and add, which eventually affects one’s perception.
I like the words - The cycle will not continue.
I think you are doing very well and a wonderful job with your kids. Much respect.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
No offense taken at all. The one thing W did not have as a child was counseling or split custody. Her counselor later in life was chosen by her mom and was a friend from church, someone who probably couldn't remain objective. Her father had always been her rock and the man has a heart of gold. They are now not speaking. I can't let that happen. I will not let this cycle continue for my children.
As for forceful encouragement: One day while lamenting, my SIL called me, yelling at me and said
"Take your b*lls out of her purse, stand up for yourself and be a man."
Something clicked inside me and I've been a different person since. It was then I started to get self confidence back and realized how much control W had over my emotions. Sometimes this type of encouragement is needed.
We left behind husbands get so meek, timid, and scared. Eventually confidence starts to return and our self control is regained. It is surprising how much we gave away.
Have a good day my friend.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hamburg, I was wondering about something, since you are a doctor.
Why isn't MLC written about in the world of psychiatry? It seems very clear that this is "a thing." All our spouses appear to be following a script -- granted, with some improvisations on that script. They all have the same thing happening at around the same time of life in the same way, they say the same things, do the same things, and most have a trajectory that is predictable. The time table varies, but it's still pretty consistent as far as what happens during that time table.
I asked a therapist about this once and she seemed to think I was being silly.
Surely many many MLCers and LBS's alike are consulting people in the medical world, surely mental health professionals are seeing the patterns.
A friend told me that my H had "involutionary psychosis." I looked that up and it seemed pretty close, actually. But was not written about in the clear way we all now know MLC.
Why isn't MLC recognized in the medical world?
Did you believe in it or only after it happened to you? What would you say to colleagues about it now, as a doctor?
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
I am in a field of medicine far removed from psychitric care, but will attempt to answer. I do know that we are trained to accept things that have been well studied and published. I do have a few friends who are psychiatrists (MD/DO) who do believe in MLC and have dealt with it. Some, however, do go strictly by a diagnostic book called DSM 5, and refute anything not addressed there. I do not think MLC is a diagnosis in there.
Psychologists and counselors (PhD or LMSW, etc) are a mixed bag. IMO they tend to get to the root of problems and address them individually. In the case of MLC address childhood trauma and depression separately. My W's counselor told her to do what makes her feel happy and issues will be dealt with down the road. Our kid's counselor believes in MLC and told W to seek more help.
I am trained to take a group of problems and find a common link (cough, fever, chills = pneumonia). On the other hand, a counselor/psychologist would be trained to look at these individually. This is just my guess.
I did believe, as do many of my medical friends. However, it is stigmatized as a man going out and buying a shiny red convertible and running off with a hot blonde with double D's. I had no idea about my W's MLC until I started to piece together all of the elements and researching the stages. This is why most of my medical friends believe--we can trace all of this to one common diagnosis. I think if it were common knowledge that they exhibit behaviors as mentioned on these boards it would be much more understood and accepted by the psychological community.
The colleagues I have confided in all say the same thing......she needs serious psychological help. It's surprising how many of them have known someone in MLC. I think one day it will be officially accepted. It will just take mountains to be moved after decades of little recognition.
And let's face it, lots of doctors have MLCs (perfect setup - money and prestige, youth spent being a nerd, working surrounded by young adoring nurses - some of whom also see them as a meal ticket) so why would they want to admit it's a disease??? I know my ex would be insulted at the thought.
Spot on, wasn’t she.