Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. Appreciate the perspective.
WAW moves out on Friday. We have MC tomorrow, where I think I will bring up that I don't believe MC will be helpful while we are separated as we both need time and space to process, heal, and grow.
We also have time carved out on Wednesday to go through our finances together. Her current position is that I should help her with a chunk of the rent of the new place, and that we should maintain the current status of a shared bank account, and shared cards that we use for things. I don't have much of an opinion on the former, but on the latter I feel it is obvious that if we are to separate effectively, we have to separate financially as well.
Beyond that, plan is the same. Minimal contact now, only when she initiates it. Always leave the conversation first. No pleading, begging, or emotion. No discussing the R. After Friday, no contact.
In the safe space of this forum, I will admit to being scared. And hurt. But I know what I have to do.
I don't understand what Steve85 and AS were saying as far as things being black and white. When my W, Steve's W, or Blu's H came back and decided to patch things up wtih us it wasn't like we jumped back into this wonderful world where we were in love and everything is great like you said. So again I'm not sure what they meant.
Well I don't think I said anything was black and white, but what I was referring to is that once a WAS goes rogue, she's all-out of the M. She's not half in and half out which I think is what Steve was asking. BEFORE BD is when they are half in and half out, they may be like that for months or even years. They are hanging on, hoping that something will change, silently suffering. When they finally decide enough is enough and they drop the bomb, then they are all out. That's what DB'ing is specifically about- dealing with a spouse that is completely checked out of the M.
And that's one thing everyone that comes here has in common, their spouse is over, done, kaput. But as I also like to point out, that is how they feel right now. That can and will change in months or years. But initially after BD there is zero chance that pursuit or begging/ pleading/ negotiating/ gift-buying/ etc. will bring them back. Once they are done, then you're dealing with a consistent recipe of giving them time and space while working on yourself, there's just no other way that works.
^^^That's what I was talking about. A lot of LBS's think they can mix a cocktail of DB'ing and other techniques and their own brand of pursuing because they think they know their wives better than anyone else and that their version is what will work for her. I can relate to that, I thought the same thing. But any of us that have been down this road can tell you, we were wrong! I was wrong! The woman I knew 25 years was no longer who I was dealing with, and the people here who were counseling me were SPOT ON in their suggestions whereas the stuff I tried early on just backfired big time. A lot of us vets are on here because we are hoping others can hear what we did right and what we did wrong, and hopefully they will learn from us and just do the right stuff
Yep, this is what I meant to. If the WAW initiates BD they are done by then. They may have been done before then for some length of time too, but on BD they certainly are. It is fool's gold to get into the game of guessing "are they really done? or aren't they?" I struggled more than most with that because I initiated BD, but for 99.5% of posters that come here that have been BD'd, there spouse is black and white done at that moment.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yep, this is what I meant to. If the WAW initiates BD they are done by then. They may have been done before then for some length of time too, but on BD they certainly are. It is fool's gold to get into the game of guessing "are they really done? or aren't they?" I struggled more than most with that because I initiated BD, but for 99.5% of posters that come here that have been BD'd, there spouse is black and white done at that moment.
Ultimately, I guess it doesn't matter because either way the next step is the same: detach. She says she needs space, give her the space.
If she wants to discuss finances and her position is that you should cover some of her expenses still just keep it brief when responding. Have a phrase or two worked out already. This is her choice to separate, what does your paying for her choice and eliminating the consequences of her choice say?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
If she wants to discuss finances and her position is that you should cover some of her expenses still just keep it brief when responding. Have a phrase or two worked out already. This is her choice to separate, what does your paying for her choice and eliminating the consequences of her choice say?
I agree, but playing devil's advocate, it's the equivalent of paying the spousal support if we got divorced, no? I assume that's the argument she would make.
So, just got back from MC. Probably going to need some 2x4s.
WAW moves out Friday. Going to be super tough, but I will survive. I've been reading No More Mr. Nice Guy and identify with just about everything in it. Lots to do, lots to talk about with my IC. Starting to put some plans in place, too: reconnected with friends, joined to sports leagues, reached out about two volunteer opportunities. Time to be the best me.
In MC, we talked a bit about what our expectations are around contact post S. WAW wants to play it by ear, see what comes naturally. I let slip that I preferred for us to get as much space as we need to gain clarity on our situation. I'm concerned I played my card, which is no contact and GAL. If she's expecting it, I gain no value from it, right?
She also mentioned that she's valued the kindness we've showed each other in the run up to the actual S. I'm paraphrasing, but she said that it reminds her that we can be friends and joke around with each other, because we've built up a history of in-jokes and just knowing the other person. I'm growing concerned that this guarantees a friendzone outcome, where she's closed the door on our romantic life together and is only interested in opening it back up for a platonic friendship.
The other side of this argument is that after we S and I go no contact, GAL, work on myself, etc., if there truly is a future for us, it's going to be Phase 2, not Phase 1. Phase 1 is over, that part of our lives is dead. It seems unlikely that Phase 2 will be just like where we left off, so wouldn't that basically mean that it has to start over again the same way our original relationship did, which was a friendship that turned into more?
The plan however does not change. Detach, work on myself, put on 10 pounds of muscle, get my jump shot back, get them whites as pearly as they can be. In the meantime, hold my line and a boundary on the finances, and cut MC.
So, just got back from MC. Probably going to need some 2x4s.
WAW moves out Friday. Going to be super tough, but I will survive. I've been reading No More Mr. Nice Guy and identify with just about everything in it. Lots to do, lots to talk about with my IC. Starting to put some plans in place, too: reconnected with friends, joined to sports leagues, reached out about two volunteer opportunities. Time to be the best me.
What are your plans for Friday? Is your NGS going have you helping her move? I hope not. She is moving. She is on her own. You are busy that day.
Originally Posted by SteveS
In MC, we talked a bit about what our expectations are around contact post S. WAW wants to play it by ear, see what comes naturally. I let slip that I preferred for us to get as much space as we need to gain clarity on our situation. I'm concerned I played my card, which is no contact and GAL. If she's expecting it, I gain no value from it, right?
Wrong. GAL and no contact is for you. Not for her. It helps you detach. If you are DBing to "gain value with her" then you are doing it wrong. Forget her. DB for you. Not her.
Originally Posted by SteveS
She also mentioned that she's valued the kindness we've showed each other in the run up to the actual S. I'm paraphrasing, but she said that it reminds her that we can be friends and joke around with each other, because we've built up a history of in-jokes and just knowing the other person. I'm growing concerned that this guarantees a friendzone outcome, where she's closed the door on our romantic life together and is only interested in opening it back up for a platonic friendship.
Yep. Right now that is true. However, do you want to get back with her? Than accept what she is willing to give you. There is a difference in being friends and being "friend-zoned." My W is my best friend, but I am not friend-zoned by her.
I've told this story a few times. Near the end of my W's waywardness, when she was getting ready to move towards staying and Ring, we were on road trip together. We stopped a drive-thru to grab a bite, and while we were waiting she made a silly noise. I laughed......mimicked the noise she made, and laughed again. She stopped, looked me dead in the eyes and say "WHO ARE YOU?" Her implication that just a few months earlier her silly noise would have annoyed me and I would have made disapproving body language movements, and maybe even chastised her publicly. Being fun and friendly is what you should be doing. Not settling for being friend-zoned doesn't mean not being friends with her, it means not holding out hope and waiting for her after you've been friend-zoned. You are a long way away from worrying about that.
Originally Posted by SteveS
The other side of this argument is that after we S and I go no contact, GAL, work on myself, etc., if there truly is a future for us, it's going to be Phase 2, not Phase 1. Phase 1 is over, that part of our lives is dead. It seems unlikely that Phase 2 will be just like where we left off, so wouldn't that basically mean that it has to start over again the same way our original relationship did, which was a friendship that turned into more?
Exactly.
Originally Posted by SteveS
The plan however does not change. Detach, work on myself, put on 10 pounds of muscle, get my jump shot back, get them whites as pearly as they can be. In the meantime, hold my line and a boundary on the finances, and cut MC.
AWESOME! What are you doing on Friday. And if you say "helping her move" I am going to hit you with a 2x4!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Spousal support, y'all have been married 2 years with no kids, right? Has a lawyer told you she'd get alimony?
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If she's expecting it, I gain no value from it, right?
Don't sweat it, it's better to show than to tell but if you stay consistent you'll be fine.
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I'm growing concerned that this guarantees a friendzone outcome,
Companionship and friendship are important, you really can't ask for anything right now. NMMNG talks about letting go of what you can't control to focus your energy where you can be productive. You already know this in business, but you have to apply it here even though your emotions don't want to.
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The plan however does not change. Detach, work on myself, put on 10 pounds of muscle, get my jump shot back, get them whites as pearly as they can be. In the meantime, hold my line and a boundary on the finances, and cut MC.
Boom. Love it!
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
What are your plans for Friday? Is your NGS going have you helping her move? I hope not. She is moving. She is on her own. You are busy that day.
Getting out of town. One of my friends has a house up on the Hudson, going to leave mid-day and spend the weekend up there with some buddies grilling, having beers, tossing around a football and such. I will say goodbye to WAW that morning though, going to be hard but I can do it. No R talk, no pressure.
Originally Posted by Steve85
Wrong. GAL and no contact is for you. Not for her. It helps you detach. If you are DBing to "gain value with her" then you are doing it wrong. Forget her. DB for you. Not her.
Good reminder. Thank you.
Originally Posted by Steve85
Yep. Right now that is true. However, do you want to get back with her? Than accept what she is willing to give you. There is a difference in being friends and being "friend-zoned." My W is my best friend, but I am not friend-zoned by her.
I've told this story a few times. Near the end of my W's waywardness, when she was getting ready to move towards staying and Ring, we were on road trip together. We stopped a drive-thru to grab a bite, and while we were waiting she made a silly noise. I laughed......mimicked the noise she made, and laughed again. She stopped, looked me dead in the eyes and say "WHO ARE YOU?" Her implication that just a few months earlier her silly noise would have annoyed me and I would have made disapproving body language movements, and maybe even chastised her publicly. Being fun and friendly is what you should be doing. Not settling for being friend-zoned doesn't mean not being friends with her, it means not holding out hope and waiting for her after you've been friend-zoned. You are a long way away from worrying about that.
Got it. Yeah, I guess I'm feeling a bit more optimistic that I really don't see a scenario where we come out on the other side of this with any hostility. She will always want me in her life. She said as much - I'm not giving up on you, I'm giving up on the way we were communicating and the way the R was going.
That is better than the alternative, even if it's not what I want just yet. And what I want can change dramatically as I do the work I have to do to better myself! But it feels like there's going to be a base level to work from. I guess this is where the outcome-agnostic mindset has to come in. I'll need to learn how to be friends and be OK with that, if it's just that. Having ulterior motives, that's just covert contract stuff. It'll be transparent.
