Like job said. Sit down with your kids and explain that honesty is the best policy. Ensure them that they can always tell you the truth, no matter what. Kids know right from wrong, know proper, moral, and just. However, the MLCer usually becomes a terrible parent, and kids need a guide, and assurance what is correct. It is pretty difficult for a 10, 12, or 14 year old to go against their parent on a fundamental level.
I think you explaining Dad’s behaviour to them, in a way they are comfortable with, is a good idea. It allows them to understand and accept what he is doing, and accept that they do not have to go along with it. Acceptance is not condoning. They just interact (or not) with the person in front them, the person who Dad is at the moment.
Your daughters are already angry with Dad, and son knows it is wrong to lie. Let them work through their emotions. You being the stable parent will get some extra venting directed at you. They really can’t vent at Dad. It’s ok, they need to get it out.
As for my ring. I do love the look of it, and miss wearing it. Thick gold with 11 diamonds. I never painted my nails, so I can’t really say if that works or not - I’ll have to take Yail’s statement as fact.
In my profession I don’t wear jewelry. Gold and precious metals are pretty darn conductive, not a good thing with electricity, rings and watches turn red hot in seconds. They are also quite the entanglement hazard. So, I placed my ring in the storage container on my dresser. I tried it on a few times over the past 21 months, seeing how it still shined and glimmered in the sun, but never actually wore it. When I took down the pictures around the house, I put my ring away too.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
First boundary. We will not be intimate with each other (unless you’re committed to working on our marriage ) Add the marriage part or not? Or I was thinking about saying the I feel that it is disrespectful toward everyone when we are intimate and he’s not willing to work on our marriage. Any suggestions how to word this are appreciated.
I would not add anything about until you’re committed to working on our marriage. It puts you on a shelf for him. Shows him you are waiting for him, content as Plan B. You are not Plan B!!!
Also MLCer have minds like Swiss cheese, full of holes. They really do have short attention spans and cannot remember what they are supposed to do. With this mind, your statement is a little to convoluted for him, not direct enough. The other idea - I feel that it is disrespectful toward everyone when we are intimate and you’re not willing to work on our marriage - similarly too much for his addled brain.
It should be something direct and current to him and his behaviour that you don’t want.
H, you have a girlfriend. You are not having sex with me.
I agree with peacetoday, have your conversations in a public place. And you don’t need to go out of your way to initiate this boundary. If he bring something up, then say it. If not, and he may not ever try again while OW is closer by, then let it be.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
Second boundary, which I’m not sure how to do. I don’t want the OW around my kids, but if she’s moving in, how can I stop that? Other than not letting the kids go to his house.
It is difficult to just say the OP cannot be around the kids, and it’s kind of unreasonable to expect that. There needs to a pretty good reason, like abuse or harassment.
If all H has is visitation rights then it could be arranged for visits just at your house. However, custody many not be solely your’s, and your kids would then be around OW.
Let me try to lessen some of your fears and stresses. In my situation OM is a bit of a dim witted slug of a man (oh how they do affair down, so very down). I had many irrational emotional problems with my kids seeing OM. However, it did become apparent that he was unfortunately a significant person in W’s life. Therefore he is going to be around my kids.
He is not their Dad. He is Mom’s boyfriend, and is treated as such. My kids know just how broken he is. A person that coveted another Man’s wife. A person who stole a married woman. A person who stole their Mom. Of course they also know just how broken Mom is, and how she is not innocent in all this.
OM is just a person, a broken person, but a person nonetheless. He is quite harmless. And my kids learned valuable lessons about accepting people, being nonjudgemental, and forgiving. I did too, and man those are tough lessons.
Perhaps there is a parallel here, mine and your situations.
What you can do is focus on unwanted behaviours - inappropriate messages, telling kids to lie, and missing school. Put your energies into these matter that directly affect the kids.
As difficult as it is, let OW go. She is meaningless, just an escape, a band-aid for a tortured soul.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
very tough thing about the kids--you will have to pray and follow your heart an trust the goodness of God our kids are tougher than we think and they will learn from watching you-
If it were me, I would stall as long as possible with letting them have overnights with OW and H any excuse available--but that is me If they do stay with them, I would watch for substance abuse, alcohol issues and make sure they are always safe We don't know who the OW is or if she is abusive-I would keep a strong eye on this your kids are still young
If keeping them with limited visits is not possible, then learn your rights as far as custody goes, talk to others who have been in this situation, seek therapy or co-parenting counseling if he is willing to discuss some of these issues that you are already having with the lies I agree to talk with the kids openly, be available as they will be confused, be a strong rock for them but it is ok for them to also see you sad,...you can simply say I feel sad without blaming your H or putting him down in any way
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Today has started out better, and yesterday was a good day too. It seems like I get sad on the weekends, where as during the week I can hold it together.
My husband has now changed his salary account, because his salary didn't show up on the mutual account. I'm not too worried about it as I have the court order I can put in if he refuses to pay what he still needs to pay since we haven't agreed on alimonies. I sent him a short message yesterday asking if he was free to do it on Thursday. No reply. I'll wait until Thursday before sending him anymore messages. In actuality I don't have to worry about the bills until following Wednesday, but of course it weighs on me a little bit.
When I see him to pay the bills, I will tell him that the kids should not be asked to lie to either one of the parents. Short and simple and no blaming, I thought? Any opinions?
I thought that for now I won't mention the school, they break for summer in 10 days anyways.
The fact that he brought the kids into this mix with the OW has stirred me a lot, more than I thought but I'm trying to get a grip again and continue on my path.
DnJ, it is exactly that. I'm in some weird way worried that the kids will like the OW, and that she's going to be funner than me. My kids are used to liking new people as we have had Au Pairs in the past, so I'm worried they'll welcome her into the family just as easy as an Au pair. Which she of course is not.
And what about when I have pump into her? How do I behave? Am I supposed to be nice? Polite? Cold? Mean? Oh, I don't like her moving down. here.
But that's enouh time for them, today I resolve to be happy and do fun stuff with my kids and not waste anymore energy on the OW or H.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
The MLcer will spend a lot even when they were once responsible with money
I don't know your arrangements
but my XH paid me a good deal of money while separated I separated all accounts and took my name off any shared credit cards We had a joint business at the time of break up that was running well-
What I did not know was the amount of money my XH was spending because he was paying me well.. I didn't realize he was gambling with OW and spending lots of money from our business and not paying the bills from our business and literally draining all the funds I was extremely lucky because my brother worker there also and he helped me intervene to save the business He was also racking up debt on all his credit cards
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
But that's enouh time for them, today I resolve to be happy and do fun stuff with my kids and not waste anymore energy on the OW or H.
Now that’s a good idea!
Originally Posted by Nyla79
When I see him to pay the bills, I will tell him that the kids should not be asked to lie to either one of the parents. Short and simple and no blaming, I thought? Any opinions?
Yes, this has to addressed. If your talking to H, I do like the short and simple approach. And no blaming is a really good idea as well. However, I don’t know how much success your can really expect asking him (remember keep expectation at zero). I would still ask H to not tell or suggest to the kids that they lie.
Your real influence and best efforts will be with your children. H is going to do whatever he wants to do. He may listen to your plea, or he may not. Your children know right from wrong, they have to deal with an entire world of people telling them all kinds of things. H is just another voice. Lead your children well and proper Nyla; have faith they will do just fine. Kids see through things pretty fast.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
The fact that he brought the kids into this mix with the OW has stirred me a lot, more than I thought but I'm trying to get a grip again and continue on my path.
DnJ, it is exactly that. I'm in some weird way worried that the kids will like the OW, and that she's going to be funner than me. My kids are used to liking new people as we have had Au Pairs in the past, so I'm worried they'll welcome her into the family just as easy as an Au pair. Which she of course is not.
And what about when I have pump into her? How do I behave? Am I supposed to be nice? Polite? Cold? Mean? Oh, I don't like her moving down here.
I do understand your feelings with this. (((Nyla)))
There is a lot of worry about this new person and how much funner they are. Fear. That’s it. The irrational emotional response to this stimulus. It takes time to get past it.
A few things for you. Do not try to be more fun than OW. Just be yourself. You are fun. You are the MOM!
You should read that again. Actually I’ll type it again - it is very important.
You are the MOM!
Your kids love you.
Children see through fake non-sincere efforts pretty darn quick. So OW really doesn’t stand a chance. You be consistent and raise your kids. Be the parent. They will respect and love you.
You cannot be replaced.
I want you to get in your intellectual car for a few minutes. Really put your emotions to the side and focus on reason and logic. Do you really want your kids to not welcome OW? For her to be no fun? To be mean? For them to hate her?
At first for me, of course that is what I wanted. I was very emotional and upset. I wanted the kids to hate Mom. To hate OM. To hate this situation. But why? What was I hoping for? Of course for W to wake up. Yeah, not going to happen from that.
And then I got to see the next phase of all this. A mother who threw away her children. The hurt and pain my children suffered. I cannot fathom it, my mother never abandoned me. I have seen the fallout, and I can scarcely imagine the feelings that it caused.
As much as it stirs you, ensure you do right for your children. If, and that’s a big if, OW and your kids actually sort of get along, see it as the blessing it is. If H still talks to your kids, wants them, consider it a good thing. So many MLCers become terrible parents.
This is not about OW or H. It is about your children, and how they see the world. Do you want them to really hate Dad or OW? Probably not.
How do you demonstrate this to them? The way you treat OW and H, especially in front of the kids.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
How do I behave? Am I supposed to be nice? Polite? Cold? Mean?
I get it, you are not friends with her, no more than I am with OM. How would you treat a stranger? Mean?
Demonizing her will eat away at you. It is self defeating.
The few times you have to interact with her, be polite and kind, as you would to anyone. From my experience they don’t want to talk or interact with the LBS. You are the wife and the Mom. You have everything the OW covets, and she will never get it. She is broken and not to be feared. The stronger and more healed you become, the more she will shrink away and hide.
I total understand that all this is a bit of a stretch at the moment. So for right now, really limit that contact. You’ll get there.
I do hope this helps. I know how long and arduous this journey is. I suspect your headings are similar to mine. Keep them in focus and keep moving towards them. The quickest way is a straight line through all this quagmire, and it is quite a slog. No worries, this is a marathon and you’ve got lots of time.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I feel like I am becoming such good friends with you all, thank you so much!
I’ve been househunting because I don’t think I can afford to stay in this house after I’m on my own financially. It breaks my heart because all the kids would want to stay, they say this is home, which it is, even though we’ve only lived in this house for 2 years. It’s also a scary thought to think that I’m moving and having to pick the place all by myself.
My oldest daughter D14 is visiting her aunt, my sister. I was messasing her today when she asked for money. I told her that at this point she needs to ask her father as me transferring money to her would take days and she needs it today. Her reply was: Yuck!
I asked her then if she’s heard from him and she said that they had talked 4 days ago. I asked how things are between them and if she’s ok and does she want to talk about it? She said, they’re not in any terms, she's blaah and does not want to talk about it. I then said that remember that I love you and Daddy loves you too, even though it probably doesn’t make anything better right now. And that we’ll talk when we’re together again.
Is it ok to explain midlife crisis to kids? I can’t just say he’s gone crazy to them, lol, even though for them this seems like it. Is there any guides how to deal with this and kids?
Peacetoday, thank you for your answer, I need to separate our finances now too and get an agreement on alimony, so I’m not dragged in with his spending. Especially now that I have no clue how much and what he’s spending.
DnJ <3 Thank you for your kind and wise words again. I wish I will grow and progress and, in the end, have your insight on things. When you asked me to get intellectual, it did help me to see clearer. Of course, for the children’s sake it will be easier if she’s fun and nice and that they like her too. It’s going to be tough on me though. Sigh. But I think D14 is not going to give this woman a chance. She’s very stubborn and slow to warm up to anyone anyway. And now that she knows why H left, she blames it on her (and him, of course)
Is it normal to start at this stage to wonder if he was right? Maybe we were unhappy? I started to think about it at the gym today. Maybe he wasn’t as wonderful as I thought he was. Am I fighting (or standing) because I was rejected? Maybe he didn't treat me as good as he should have. And walking out on me like that, what a jerk. But at the same time, I know these thoughts are not real. He was a good man, not perfect, but who is.
Today I’m supposed to see H and discuss finances. Wish me luck!
I read this somewhere: “Trauma creates change you don’t choose. Healing is about creating change you do choose”
So change, growth, progress, my mantra for this week…
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
It is ok to explain MLC to your kids, in an age appropriate manner. They see the behaviour and need some explanation. The idea of saying he is crazy is a little comical, isn’t it. However, crazy is a pretty apt description of an MLCer’s behaviour.
Dad is having problems, or emotionally unstable, or upset, angry, depressed, etc... all are valid choices of what to tell them. The big thing is to discuss it to the level the kids comprehend.
Me and my kids have used the word crazy when it applied. Now we just refer to all this as - she’s troubled. That is a good fit for where we are now. We went through a lot of descriptive adjectives for her and her behaviour. There are many faces - troubled is a good summary.
I am glad the intellectual focusing worked for you so well. That is an excellent step towards gaining understanding, which in turn leads to compassion, kindness, empathy, forgiveness - you know those goals and headings you want to achieve. And yes a lot of insights will be revealed to you along your path.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
Is it normal to start at this stage to wonder if he was right? Maybe we were unhappy? I started to think about it at the gym today. Maybe he wasn’t as wonderful as I thought he was. Am I fighting (or standing) because I was rejected? Maybe he didn't treat me as good as he should have. And walking out on me like that, what a jerk. But at the same time, I know these thoughts are not real. He was a good man, not perfect, but who is.
This is completely normal.
As denial fades away, questions start, self doubts about various beliefs of how things were will creep in, all quite normal and shows healing is taking place.
Your mind is trying to rationalize this. That is what we do. We rationalize the world around us; everything gets categorized and understood - well to certain level. I mean we all understand the Large Hadron Collider, just not to the level of the engineer who designed it (it was an entire team, not just one person, just illustrating ). However, we understand enough to let go of rationalizing about the LHC.
MLC is not a particle accelerator, it is an irrational behaviour driven from unseen and unknown forces from long ago traumatic experiences or pain. Hmmm, the accelerator might be easier to understand.
MLC is irrational. You are rationalizing H’s behaviour. Your mind is creating a reality that makes his behaviour rational or fits the facts. Of course his behaviour doesn’t fit the facts - so (and this is the big part) - you are questioning and could actually rewrite your own history to create facts to fit.
The questions like - maybe we were actually unhappy? Maybe his is right? Maybe he isn’t as wonderful as I remember him? Am I just doing this out of fear or rejection? And so on.
You are creating self doubt and questioning. And you are noticing this, which is a very good thing.
Nyla, please do not lose the truth. I experienced the same things. I have over 36,000 pictures of W and I, our 30+ years together. We were happy! We had a great life! I know that. I believe that. I also have proof.
You also have proof, memories, letters, gifts, cards, and such. However, your own mind is looking on how to reconcile this irrationality. This is what I mean when I say we all need a certain level of understanding before we will move forward.
Granted, BD is a pretty traumatic experience and in an instant you suddenly want him more than ever. A very understandable reaction; it is the whatever is taken away is what you’ll want most, kind of thing. This can augment positive traits and diminish or lessen certain negative traits about one’s wayward spouse. Focusing on you and your kids, allows time for you to settle, find detachment, and see clearer.
I think you can see that if one didn’t realize their rewriting, their background rationalizing of things, one would augment negative traits and failures, and lessen or discard positives regarding their wayward spouse. Creating a past reality to fit all those doubts that are creeping in.
Seek and hold on to the truth.
Our MLCers rewrite their history - augmenting our negatives or even creating ones, and they minimize or ignore any positives. They have to, they are drive to, they need to create facts to fit their ideas, fantasy, and created reality.
Do you see the similarities of the LBS and the MLCer. The cause is different, and we are not in crisis, however we both have pressures to embrace a different reality. The suffering spouse’s pressures are just enormous, while our’s are more manageable, and of course we are the sane and stable person. We can heal well, hold the truth, and thrive.
Our kids also have self doubts and questions. As I said, it is ok to explain MLC to your kids. I truly believe it is needed, they need understanding as well.
With intellectual understanding, you can uncouple fears and worry. That allows acceptance of your feelings and emotions. You can discover your core beliefs and alter, modify, discard, and strengthen them, based on who you really are, who you want to be, and what your choices are.
Understanding, compassion, and empathy are build upon a solid foundation of one’s beliefs. Those are the seeds of peace, a gentle and tranquil life, forgiveness, acceptance, and incredible self growth.
You have stepped onto the path, and are already walking. Keep your headings. Dig deep for patience. Focus on you.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you again DnJ, you know how to explain everything so well. I just want to move into a little bubble where you explain things to me and why they are happening.
My meeting with H went really, really well. He seemed like his old self, he was talking a lot, held eyecontact, joked around, so it was a good and confusing meeting. It made me wonder is he really this happy? Is he not in MLC? Could he just be a WAS? And if so is the approach for DB still the same? (I really would need the book to arrive already, I ordered it two weeks ago!)
Even when I stated that the kids should not asked to lie to either one of the parents, he didn't get upset, he kind of made a joke about it, and agreed that it was wrong. He really was just like he used to be.
When the finances came up though, he said he's too tired to talk about the future. I said that we just need to briefly go into it as I would want us to figure out alimonies within the next month. He seemed relieved that I didn't push the matter further. And when we went thru the finances he seemed to be ok with everything and promised to make the transfer to our mutual account.
So I'm hoping that this is good progress for paving the way back eventually. I don't know if I should try to see him more now in the following two weeks before the OW moves here, or do I just continue not contacting him other than for the kids or finances?
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
Yes he will appear happy. He thinks he has it all figured out; he has no idea how wrong he is. And nothing anyone tells him will get through. He needs time and space to see this for himself.
Whether MLC or WAS the approach is the same. Focus on you and your kids. Protect yourselves and ensure your financial support. Live like he is not coming back. That doesn’t mean run out and date, it means move forward, grieve, heal, find Nyla, and discover her.
You have done well for paving the way back. He has a lot of boulders in his path, and you have done well not placing anymore. You can’t remove his boulders on his path, that is for him.
I wouldn’t contact him except for emergencies regarding the children. Get the financial part locked in, and give him all the space and time he wants. If he contacts you, talk to him if you want. It really depends on where you are in this process, all these tools do give your best chance at saving M, however their main purpose is saving you, healing you. That being said, detachment, indifference, addiction to H, fear, letting go - I would keep conversations to a minimum with him - you need the time and space too.
I think you have made it through the “how am I ever going to survive this” stage. Continue to move forward, and not sit still. There is a long path ahead of you, keep walking it. You have lots of support.
Hope you have a great day.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I realized today that I've started to dream again. I haven't had any dreams (that I remember) since the BD and now in the past few nihts I have had dreams. I don't know psychology but I'll take it as a good sign.
I'm so grateful for all of you who help me daily, not by just answering my threads, but posting your own. It gives me comfort knowing I'm not alone in this.
I'm going to talk with a lawyer when I go to my hometown tomorrow. Since my husband filed for the divorce in the country where I am from, all the proceedings have to happen there. I've asked him many times if he's talked with his lawyer about alimony. I know he has no idea how much he is going to have to pay, and I know he will probably be upset when he finds out. And this is something I will not back down from, I will take everything that I legally can. I put my career on the backburner, so he would have the freedom to pursue his. And when he gets where he wanted to be, he leaves me.
Yes, I think I'm in the anger state of my grief now. But I figured it's better to vent here, than to him.
He is still being very nice, like today he's coming to drive S10 to a friends party even though it's my week with the kids, so it should be my responsibility. But he's also ignoring my messages about our daughters upcoming confirmation and the party for it. He is not attending the party, which is sad because the party means a lot for my daughter. I just need to make it a great party without him.
I feel better again, but it truly is a rollercoaster and I'm a bit worried about the length that this will take. But I'm trying to follow your instruction and live as if he's not coming back.
Oh, the best news, I got the DR book on Friday!!!! My S10 and D12 were with me when I got the mail, and both commented on how can someone be so happy about a book?????? I'm reading it now, and decided to read thru once and then read again and do the goals etc. Even though so far I think a lot of what I've read doesn't apply to MLC. Like in writing goals and making them short term. At the moment I can't ask anything from my husband, so scratch that, right?
Oh well, time to enjoy the sun and my kids. Have a great Sunday everyone!!!
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
