Expecting BD soon (Part 2)

[unchien]

IMO rehashing every "wrong" thing you did repeatedly will only cause you more chaos. I know because preDB I did it. Over. And over. And over. I stopped talking to W abt that at the end of last year but continually beat myself up internally over and over again. I still do it occasionally but it has diminished post DBing.

So true. My first apology letter went over everything I did wrong the last 18 months. The follow-up letters were more specific. I read about Emotional Abuse. I admitted to a lot of "wrong" behaviors. I meant it, it was not disingenuous. My intention was to truly apologize and work on moving on as a couple. Instead it appears I just confirmed her story was the correct one.

PS I know I said it before, but there is no way in [censored] i would go to a MC with a W that didn't want to work on the R.

I agree with your sentiment. But dumb question - how do I figure out my W's intention here? She is an emotional brick wall and reveals nothing.

She's already revealed to me she doesn't want to work on the R, or at least won't talk about it, which is one and the same to me. I could accelerate the process and initiate R talk, or use this limbo "gift of time" to work on myself, as excruciating as it is to endure and suffer longer.

I have had a few ideas:

1. Contact the MC ahead of time (our prior MC held a brief phone chat with each of us individually about our vision for the R). And just tell the MC I'm not interested if W does not want to work on the R.

--> Partly I want to do this to feel out how the MC handles these situations. Do they just more or less give up on the M in this case ( "It takes 2 to stay M'd, 1 to D") ? Or do they try?

2. Tell my W directly that I will only go to MC if she wants to work on the M and stay M'd if possible.

--> This one seems like a bad idea. First of all, I am supposed to be oblivious right now, and given her current negative headspace I don't know how she is liable to react if she realizes I'm in the know. Secondly, she could easily say "Yes" and go to 1-2 sessions and just throw her hands up and say "forget it." I guess my point is... I don't trust my W to be honest here even if I do ask here.

3. Go to MC, be prepared with my response to a D request (short statement and then walk out), and otherwise say almost nothing until my W reveals her cards.

Any other ideas? #3 seems the best to me given the circumstances.

[IronWill]

PS I know I said it before, but there is no way in [censored] i would go to a MC with a W that didn't want to work on the R.

I agree with your sentiment. But dumb question - how do I figure out my W's intention here? She is an emotional brick wall and reveals nothing.

I wanted to know. So i bit the bullet and asked her if she wanted to go to MC to work on the R. Yes, it started a fight and yes it was emotionally exhausting. But I got my answer - "no".

So I listened to her and respected her wishes.

[AnotherStander]

PS I know I said it before, but there is no way in [censored] i would go to a MC with a W that didn't want to work on the R.

I agree with your sentiment. But dumb question - how do I figure out my W's intention here? She is an emotional brick wall and reveals nothing.

I wanted to know. So i bit the bullet and asked her if she wanted to go to MC to work on the R. Yes, it started a fight and yes it was emotionally exhausting. But I got my answer - "no".

So I listened to her and respected her wishes.

Sorry one of us didn't pop in to talk you off the ledge but yeah, that was a very predictable outcome. You temp checked her and you got BD'd all over again. At least now you know and can go about the business of giving her time and space.

As for this question:

how do I figure out my W's intention here? She is an emotional brick wall and reveals nothing.

The very fact that she's being a brick wall IS showing her intentions. She wants nothing to do with you, that's WHY she's a brick wall. You'll know it if she ever decides she's interested in reconciling because that wall will come down. Read Steve's sitch to see what that looks like.

[IronWill]

PS I know I said it before, but there is no way in [censored] i would go to a MC with a W that didn't want to work on the R.

I agree with your sentiment. But dumb question - how do I figure out my W's intention here? She is an emotional brick wall and reveals nothing.

I wanted to know. So i bit the bullet and asked her if she wanted to go to MC to work on the R. Yes, it started a fight and yes it was emotionally exhausting. But I got my answer - "no".

So I listened to her and respected her wishes.

Sorry one of us didn't pop in to talk you off the ledge but yeah, that was a very predictable outcome. You temp checked her and you got BD'd all over again. At least now you know and can go about the business of giving her time and space.

Not meaning to hijack here. AS- I wasnt on the boards then - no worries3. I was alone and confused. TG I found this place.

[unchien]

The very fact that she's being a brick wall IS showing her intentions. She wants nothing to do with you, that's WHY she's a brick wall. You'll know it if she ever decides she's interested in reconciling because that wall will come down. Read Steve's sitch to see what that looks like.

Ugh... so it's DB until the BD basically...

[unchien]

Help! I need some PMA advice! I'm struggling big-time in this area.

How do you guys maintain PMA day after day? I'm 2 months into this pre-BD realization and might have another 2 months to endure before the BD. Not to mention the time afterwards. I'm struggling. I've been DB'g for about 3 weeks but I feel like I'm slipping up. PMA is one of the toughest areas for me, need some tips.

[IronWill]

Help! I need some PMA advice! I'm struggling big-time in this area.

How do you guys maintain PMA day after day? I'm 2 months into this pre-BD realization and might have another 2 months to endure before the BD. Not to mention the time afterwards. I'm struggling. I've been DB'g for about 3 weeks but I feel like I'm slipping up. PMA is one of the toughest areas for me, need some tips.

U - the best way to be positive is to choose it. There is no other secret. You make the decision and you do it.

You can buy all the books you want, you can search all you want, you can travel all you want.

But at the end of the day, it's you. You choose to be positive.

I chose to be positive. Even if my W is flailing now. Even if it ends in D. Even if I am no longer an Unc to 4 awesome.nephews that I've become a second dad to. I want to see them. I want to be in their lives. Who gives a [censored] if its different. Its what I want.

So if I have to drop everything to make what I want happen, that's my goal.

My advice? Determine your worst case scenario. Think about it. Really. But positively. You want to see your kids, you want to have a good friendly R with your W? Then do whatever it takes to make that happen.

The rest? Well - that's life, man. We dont always get what we want. But we have to.pick ourselves up and keep moving

[unchien]

Journal -

Mornings are starting to be my most positive times. Really weird dreams at night lately, usually involving either recon or devastation.

Question to everyone here about a pattern that is emerging: Last night, again, after kids went to bed, talked to W for probably 90 minutes. Previous night was 60 minutes, a bit more serious talk. Last night, a little about kids and family, and then we started telling stories about friends and our past, had several good laughs. It felt like... emotional connection. Well, ok, that’s an over-statement. It was good to laugh and smile around my W for a bit, it’s been a few weeks. I know... don’t over-read into it. But personally I enjoyed it, and not because I thought it meant anything toward recon (or maybe I’m lying to myself). It was just nice to laugh and release some stress, nothing more.

But should I be doing this? Engaging in long talks with W regularly?

I am conflicted here:

1. Recall in April I was writing apology letter after apology letter, talking about anniversary gifts, professing my love. I stopped cold turkey. It’s been 3-4 weeks since bringing anything up.

Talking with my W normally, without introducing R talk — first, I do enjoy it. Second, it is an opportunity to show her am emotionally on the level.

2. Showing my wife I am level emotionally might make her MORE comfortable to leave. I am violating DB principles. I am reinforcing that I will be a great friendly exH. I should be GAL during these times.

I’ll try to describe below where I am confused:

I’m reading NMMNG for the 2nd time lately, and realizing this is not just another self-help book. I’ve been buying a lot of books lately, this one resonates at a level where I feel like I will be reading and re-reading it over and over. I need to commit whole-heartedly to NMMNG. It will be tough. But I can see the end goal way off down the road, being comfortable in your own skin and letting go of expectations of other people. Sandi2’s posts on other threads really hammer this home. My wife is not WW (as far as I know) but I have NGS, and it has contributed heavily to our M deteriorating.

DB feels like a stepping stone towards resolving NGS. It is a nice, simple program for us introspective ruminators who can’t get out of our own head. Stopping toxic behaviors, reorienting your brain towards a more positive and self-focused outlook. DB has really helped me set some boundaries and guidelines on my behavior. I feel like DB and NMMNG mesh very nicely.

At some point, does one graduate to this higher plane where following DB rigidly is not really required, where one is comfortable in their own skin, living according to their own principles and values? That seems like the NMMNG goal. And DB would become essentially second-nature?

Going back to the talking... yeah, I’m probably looking at it as a way to reconnect a bit, I admit that. Less so than if we spoke a week ago and I was more hopeful about recon pre-BD but still. W stayed up super late after I went to sleep. I have no illusions. Maybe just talking and acting normal is pressure in its own way.

I’m having trouble wording it... I’m tired of obsessing over my M. It’s exhausting. I don’t trust my W anymore, emotionally. 2 months already pre-BD and another 2 months to go... it is a pressure cooker, and I’m doing my best, but I might be spent before we even start MC. I know I need to GAL more. I guess I feel like changing my focus from “DB hard as a way to save myself, with the possibility it will save my M” to “Do what feels good and follow DB/NMMNG, ignore the impact to my M”.

But I can see there is a flaw in my logic somewhere here, that I am slipping into NGS. Please point it out to me.

Maybe this is all a sign I am mid-transition - from hanging on the rope, to holding onto the rope but leaving slack, to now starting to let go with a few fingers... I can see far away the end of the marathon, and on the finish line it says AMOAFWL, but I can only walk a few steps before the rope starts tugging.

[LH19]

U,

Your sitch is different then most here because you really haven’t been b yet and there is no evidence of an A.

So as far as the talks if your doing it as a way to reconnect and save your marriage then (which I believe you are) that’s your NGS kicking in.

Limbo is the worst to place to be. Everything afterwards it starts to get easier.

[SoTorn]

In my humble opinion you are prolonging your pain. Yes you havent had the BD, but you know something is up. She is still acting as a WAS.

The more you stay involved, the more you will hurt. You will keep yourself on that emotional limbo rollercoaster. I honestly feel that since you havent had BD yet. Since you havent heard the ILYBIDLY or "its too late" that you have much more of a chance at making an impact by BD.

You can detach with love because you can still be friendly and approach your WAS.

Right now is your perfect time to show her the man you are. Show her that you are independent. Show her you are AMOAFWL.

Be that better version of yourself. Yes it feels very counterintuitive. However, you may just have a chance to be the pursued, if you can change for yourself and be consistent in those changes.