That person we both want to be there is gone. It hurts worse than anything, but eventually we have to accept it. Part of the grieving process.
As for wanting immediate results: DB, to me, is about achieving results FOR YOU first and foremost. I know that's not the original intent by MWD, and she suggests adjusting your DB strategies every week or two depending on the results you achieve. But for most cases like ours... I think we have to more or less ignore results and outcomes (as far as your R with your W). Focus on the results for yourself. It's not about your W. There is no magic bullet. You aren't going to strike upon some magic DB combo that restores her to some earlier state. Try things, experiment, but do it for you.
U - let me give you a glimpse into a not so distant future.
It is almost 2 years since BD for me. I was devastated, blindsided and thought my life was over. My exW didn't want a chance to repair the M and didn't want to go to MC. I asked her three times to reconsider and the last time she told me that this was 'permanent'. To not be even allowed a chance stung like nothing else. Like our 12 year relationship had no value for her to salvage, not to mention 2 kids now in the mix.
I also suffered from NGS. I was hugely conflict-avoidant. I was depressed.
exW threw some breadcrumbs and I took the bait and suffered basically another crushing blow of BD. Even though the board here told me exactly what was going to happen, I didn't trust and had the need to find out for myself. And folks here were absolutely right about how it went down. I put myself through unnecessary pain to get 'confirmation' that she was done.
But after that I put DB into practice. I didn't look back. I did the internal work, went GAL, confronted the pain and my demons and started on a path of personal growth. It was tough and I went through bouts of hopelessness and grieving the loss of my time with the kids. Having the kids half the time nearly destroyed me. I remember sitting in my home without the kids and asking myself - what the hell am I supposed to do now?
Fast forward to now. I am emotionally stable and mature, mentally strong, and I have great clarity about myself and also what I want in a partner. I put in the work. exW hasn't put in the work. I can clearly now see her emotional issues and how she's basically still in the same place, just with new window dressing that covers up her failings.
If she came for recon now, my answer would be a solid NO. I could never in a million years have believed 2 years ago that I would have that answer to her. Life without her was inconceivable to me then. Now, I know what I want and I will not settle for less. She is not the partner I want. She would have to do tremendous amount of personal work, gain humility, let go of entitlement, and be genuinely remorseful for me to even TRY. And i emphasize 'try' because I can't guarantee that I'd take her back even if she did all the work.
Am I placing too much burden on her? Not at all. I went and did all of that by MYSELF without any help. the support I got from family and some friends was important, but when I rested my head on the pillow, it was me and my mind. hence my tagline here - no one is coming to save you! No matter what support you have, you have to actually put in the work and fight for yourself - no one else is capable of doing it for you.
I know this future may seem ridiculous to you right now. It did to me. But I saved myself in this process and DB and this community was instrumental in my path.
So, when we say that invest in yourself and you'll be fine either way, we are speaking from experience. Don't worry about any specific tactics and being able to achieve it with perfection. Invest in yourself and it's all gonna be gravy and champagne.
Back in April when I was apologizing profusely in letters, I also asked W (via e-mail) if we could go back to MC sooner than July. She never responded. I was making classic mistakes here, over apologizing, and in writing, so she can go back to the letters every single day if she wants.
I also asked her to speak in person, as I wanted to briefly follow up to my letters with an in-person apology. She said, in effect, "Maybe in front of your IC". Admiral Ackbar! I declined, and have not followed up.
Maybe 2 weeks ago she texted me to see if I wanted to have that talk in front of IC, and/or start MC in June or July. I said, "I'm interested in MC." At this point I was up to speed on DB basics.
Lately she's told me a couple times she's having trouble contacting MCs with availability. I've mostly responded with an "OK" or a shrug. She asked me to see if my IC had any recommendations, and he did give me a couple names.
I'm aware MC is likely going to be the BD, at which point I plan to respond briefly ("not what I want, but I won't stand in your way"). I'm not looking for closure. If W is planning to discuss in MC how to tell the kids, how to co-parent, etc., I might be okay with that but I figure I will need some time post-BD to gather my thoughts. Honestly I feel like I deserve the time to consider what I think is best in that scenario.
So basically... I'm completely lukewarm about MC (at best). I have 2 names from my IC.
What would be the best response here? Text her the names? Wait awhile? Say nothing, and let her drive finding the MC? She says nothing about wanting to work on the M, which is not how things were during our first MC search last summer.
Unichen. you have no idea how much I resonate with you exactly what you're saying I had a response written up this morning to send to you but I wanted to revise it first. I feel that you and I are in the same exact situation is being accused of the same exact things and being a manipulated in the same exact way even though they accuse us of doing the same. I'm sorry but I'm not buying all of this emotionally abusive bull$hit. I have a question for you do you feel or think that your wife is manipulating you and holding control over you? my other question is how emotionally volatile have you been and is it getting too far and few in between as time passes? I was doing good for about 2 or 3 weeks and then I had another relationship talk and a minor freak out over absolutely nothing. Just before I went to therapy the next day I figured out why it's because I'm constantly misunderstood by W, and I'm frustrated as f@!×. not because I'm not getting the results that I want, that the house is going up for sale that were moving and separating, but because I feel like anything and everything I could say will never get acknowledged, my own point of view will never be seen or heard, I could own up some 1,000 of my mistake on the list, and they will never figure out what they contributed to the downfall, and it won't be our place to point out either.
after taking a lot of stock of our marital history I realize our communication issues we have been passing right over at one another since the beginning of the marriage, and even parts while dating. I came to realize she had relationship issues with her father and relating to him and probably doesn't understand men too well, despite having three brothers. what I see and have always seen as somewhat of a feminist mindset. My wife has been documenting my behaviors too, she is after all the behavioral specialist. What the kick in the pants is she fails to see her own inside relationships. She thinks she's a pathetic but she's not, she wants to be seen and heard but she sees no one else. She doesn't make herself vulnerable and keeps certain thoughts private especially with journaling. I've come to realize that these resentments that she Harbors she's not only done it with me but ex-boyfriend's too. Her and her family insisted on inviting my brother's ex-wife to our wedding to watch my nieces who are the flower girls and it created a big Fiasco especially because my brother had a very nasty divorce with the woman. They wanted to copy and paste their ideals to take precedence over our situation of my family. My family is a bit dysfunctional and I'm a product of that yes. I come from a conflict family but we lay all our feelings out on the table and resolve things whether it's loud or not. Her family avoids conflict like the plague and pussyfoot surround everyone yet all the while talking behind their backs. There was so many red flags with the beginning of our marriage, from her side and mine, yeah we both chose to ignore it. Because I come from a conflict family I could be taken as emotionally abusive. If you add her stuff with her father being an alcoholic and emotionally removed from his daughter. You can apparently see why she doesn't understand men, and take someone of a strong feminist position, especially when her mother who was awesome, but was always in a constant state of denial of the father's anxiety issues ( drinking smoking excetera.) He's a Vietnam vet now that has dementia. The mother always want along with what he decided said and shows because that's how she was raised. So what my wife Wanda being is a bit of a blend between the two but yet being somewhat of a feminist mindset. She will side with women over her own husband even strangers. I can give you a justification list of hers that's a mile long, that she keeps repeating to me, that she keeps observing and recording. But I've been doing my own observations and writing things down as well. they can't see themselves they won't see themselves and you can't point that out to them. Let them go. If you want to spend your time compulsively thinking about all these things like me just to figure out how to be better in relationships, where things went wrong, how to improve on them, learn, grow, etc, i can understand that, although not healthy. That's why you GAL. Everyone needs introspectiveness and self discovery to a degree. Let go of the idea of who you thought they were both so they're obviously not who you think they are, especially now. They don't see a future with you 5 years 10 years or 30 years from now, and they don't care about past history or experiences, it no longer means or has sentimental value to them any longer.
With humility I've looked at my own side of things and she hasn't but I've actually come to the point now where I don't like what I see now, don't want to trust, dont want to pursue, and don't want to reconcile. I see selfishness coming from someone who was never selfish & always puts others first, and now regrets it and is becoming selfish as a way of saving herself and her identity.
I've realized that we were compatible enough, and had enough discovery, common interest, and love to last 10 years. We were both working on ourselves when we met and we both stopped and she has mentioned that to me and wish that we didn't stop. I realized that the communications the common interest, the complacency of marriage, the emotional and mental compatibility all went out the window from M day 1.
I'm getting my papers in affairs in order and I'm pulling the trigger 100%, wish me luck and I'll let everyone know if I change my mind again. At the very least I'll have everything ready to go. I don't like this person that I see and I don't like what I've become in front of and to this person. Go and find yourself Unichen. if we have to think about things compulsively to find answers then do it but balance it out with some happiness even if it's temporary
IHCLACS - I will respond more thoughtfully later but real quick:
Forget the narrative in her head. She could think you are Charles Manson, who cares? Own your 50% responsibility.
Accept that you will be always misunderstood by your W. I hate this part too. This is what drives me in my weaker moments to want to R talk with her. Or just to tell her "I know you are planning D." It's part of the grieving process, but we need to reach acceptance.
I would ask her what her intentions are before committing to going. I’m sure your IC and books can help you with what to tell the kids.
Yeah, it's a weird one to figure out. It is a form of R talk. And I already know her intentions, don't I? If she wants to BD in MC, rather than at home, well, I'm not going to run from it.
So I'm not sure about asking her intentions, honestly.
As of right now, I *would* want to work with her to align how we deal with the kids. At least as best as we can. I'd have to be careful that it isn't just a way for her to exert control. I think it would serve me well in future custody discussions as well.
Sometimes I wonder if she is going to say (in MC) "We move back to where we came from (2 years ago), or we D". That one's easy - I would absolutely move back, regardless of financial impact, but first we need to work on our M and be on solid ground. And that is going to take ttiiimmme.
So, when we say that invest in yourself and you'll be fine either way, we are speaking from experience. Don't worry about any specific tactics and being able to achieve it with perfection. Invest in yourself and it's all gonna be gravy and champagne.
You got this!
Maika - you inspire me, thank you for sharing so willingly. Stories like yours give us newbies some much-needed strength.
I know I'm not going to be the exception here. I will be going through D and it is going to be painful and difficult. There will be no recon. I'm still grieving this fact, but I know it to be true.
It's premature at this point, but down the road I would like to understand how you adjusted to being a single dad for your kids, and how old your kids were when you started. It honestly terrifies me.
I have a question for you do you feel or think that your wife is manipulating you and holding control over you? my other question is how emotionally volatile have you been and is it getting too far and few in between as time passes?
I only feel manipulated and controlled a bit when it comes to parenting our kids. I feel like my opinions and decisions are not valued. My W gets pretty worked up around them, and in those situations I try to react and resolve the situation. Is that her controlling, or is it my issue because I can't deal with her high-stress? Little of both I guess.
Otherwise I don't really feel manipulated or controlled. I used to more, when I thought that all my sacrifices (letting go of friends and hobbies) were for the sake of my W and my family. But truthfully I made those decisions.
What I really feel is unloved. And it h.u.r.t.s.
For your other question, I have been very emotionally volatile since I realized she was thinking about leaving me. I felt betrayed. I pulled the car over. I poured my heart out in apology after apology letter. Every day I have a 30-45 minute period where I am just floored with anxiety and grief. The difference is that I'm better at restraining myself around my W, at not acting on those emotions. This is where I get stuck a bit, because I feel like "If she only knew that I knew, she might be more understanding of my reactions." But probably not... she is gone already. Somewhere along the way my W crossed the threshold, long before I knew it.
I hope someday the extreme emotions subside. I accept that it's part of the grieving process and it's going to take several months at least. It's normal for me to feel this way. I have a tinge of catastrophic thinking which is not healthy and fuels the extremes, but otherwise I think it's completely okay to have these feelings.
I don't know... I accept what I am facing. I don't have a choice. That pain and hurt floods me every single day, and all I can do is accept it, endure it, and hopefully get a little bit stronger each day. After about 2 months, I can't tell that I feel any better when the flood comes, I'll be honest. It makes me want to panic, I just want to talk to somebody, I just want to resolve my pain, feel a little better. But at least I don't go running to my W for soothing anymore.
