Keep going Alison. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better . You seem very considerate and wise and have owned your own issues. I don’t agree that you should make the sacrifices to own you h’s .
You are a wonderful woman and all I can say is time and patience, you can do it and soon you will be happy and not sad
I think the only thing that keeps our marriage afloat is if I take responsibility for his abusive behaviours and undertake to change my own behaviour so that he won't be provoked into doing the things I find unacceptable.
What type of life is it that you take responsibility for his abusive behaviour. His behaviours are on him. Own your faults but do not own his. Treat him as you would like to be treated - with kindness and respect. But you can not expect the same from him. He has his own demons to face - and from the sounds of it, he is not yet ready to face them. He may never be.
Being single is lonely. But there is also freedom. Freedom from anxiety. Freedom from always trying to temper your emotions so that they will 'not provoke' someone else.
I think I'm sad because I do genuinely want to care for him and help him. There's probably all kinds of covert contracts in there and manipulation and needing to be needed and co-dependency. But there's also a man who I love who is in a terrible state. I do want to be a support and comfort to him and I know that because of my own shortcomings I have failed to do that in the past. And right now, no matter how much I'd like to comfort or help him, I don't think I can. He sees everything I do in the worst possible light, he's so critical I doubt there's anything about me he likes or wants right now, when I have tried to comfort or help in practical ways (like cooking him meals for the freezer, getting him stuff from the chemist, etc) he's ended up throwing things back in my face. I think he's probably pretty confused and mixed up and wants comfort, and doesn't understand why he feels critical or scared when I do comforting things - because he can't trust them. I think that's where he is. And I can't help with that. And I'm just sad, because it is a painful place to be for both of us and there's really nothing to do about it right now.
AlisonUK,
I sympathize with your situation. There are many parallels between your sitch and my own. I am also worried about my H. He is choosing his actions, but I feel like he is spiraling out of control. He has struggled with addiction in the past, whether it be pain killers, alcohol, tobacco, or porn. He lost his six figure job in 2010 due to these behaviors. It was devastating to our family, but we worked hard and got through it. What I now recognize is that there was still work to do. We moved forward too fast. With exception to the pills (as far as I know) all of these things are back in his life and gaining momentum. He is spending $ like crazy which is scary as it is either drugs, hotel rooms, or it could just be reckless spending. I have opened my own account and will be asking him to do the same.
We differ in that it sounds like your H is making progress towards you, my H is not. My H is the opposite of critical at this point. For the first several weeks he blamed me and our marriage for all of his behaviors. That we were damaged beyond repair. Last week he changed his tune. He stated that he is mostly to blame for these issues, that underneath it all there is something wrong with him- the lying, hiding things, etc. That he often tries to make me out to be the bad guy, but he knows that it's not true. That I have stuck by him through thick and thin, and he wishes he could do the same for me (crumbs).
He blames his unhappiness in our marriage for the reason he needs space, a break. Yet from everything I've read, it is the affair talking. There is not doubt in my mind that he is unhappy, and was before the OW. We were disconnected and a series of events began to pile up and overwhelm him. Yet his words, actions, and addictive personality tell me his desire to leave is fueled by his A. He says that he wants to leave, but continues to try to keep the door open. I think perhaps I need to shut that door and work on me.
I also feel like I will have peace if he leaves. I have turned my ringer off on my phone b/c the "ding" gives me anxiety. His texts are friendly and kind, but I just want him to stop. The same is true with our home phone. I am annoyed every day when he calls.
You are so strong. Keep up the hard work. Your posts inspire and comfort me as I can see you becoming stronger each day!
Thank you CL. I don't feel strong - I have many days where I get the kids off to school then sit in the car outside my house wailing because I don't want to go in to the empty place. I get tears in my eyes most nights when I load the dishwasher and there's one plate too few. His clothes are still here and sometimes I want to sleep with them and sometimes I want to burn them. I am certainly not strong!
What has helped is time, and making my mind up to enjoy as much of my time and my days and my children and my work as possible. I am heartbroken at the state of my marriage and I don't know what will happen and the uncertainty is terrible. But I am also fit and healthy and financially safe and my children love me and have their health. I enjoy my work. I have plenty each day to be grateful for and that has helped.
I see my H is struggling and very very very badly wants me to be on his side. I can be on his side by doing my 180s and taking brilliant care of those children and taking emotional care of myself and putting no demands on him. I can also be on his side (and this is harder) by refusing to tolerate his shoddy behaviour and distancing myself from it. I see a man who is confused and struggling and depressed and deeply frightened and who finds vulnerability and humility too frightening to countenance. I feel a lot of compassion for him. Whether he is able to dig deep and find it in himself to examine his own behaviour is up to him. Even if he goes on that journey, he might end up a better man and one I am no longer suited to. I know that. I'm very sad about it. But I don't want to cling onto him anymore.
The question of abuse is a very complex one, my husband has also behaved in some abusive ways too, but sometimes it's not abuse but a complicated dynamic between two people where one person behaves badly and the other person accepts it (that's not victim blaming, it's acknowledging a system with two people which can spiral into negativity). I do agree that you can be on his side by not tolerating poor or disrespectful behaviour, but you're also on your own side there too. I have similar feelings about wanting to both help my husband be a better man as he professes to want to be (if he's capable of change) as well as putting a stop to poor treatment. Understanding where that poor behaviour comes from doesn't excuse it, some behaviour is never acceptable and it seems like we are both learning how to refuse to be victims here.
And yes you are strong, those mixed feelings are challenging to sit with but they are also normal. I think it takes more strength to go through those feelings than it does to take action to end a marriage. Leaving the door open is harder than slamming it shut, because it leaves you vulnerable.
I think it is complex too. I don't think turning him into a two dimensional monster is any more accurate than turning me into a two dimensional victim - though that was a strongly entrenched part of our dynamic and I am changing that. He was not always the way he is now. Neither was I. Which means change is possible, and I am going to change for the better.
I have some questions about the best thing to do regarding co-parenting. There's a long standing problem with Eldest, who is very challenging at times. Eldest feels that H favours Youngest, who personality wise, is much more compliant and sunny natured and eager to please and much more like H in interests. Eldest tends to be highly strung and anxious, and this manifests in some angry flareups. I've contributed unhelpfully here by letting Eldest get away with a LOT of poor behaviour and disrespect. I don't think I really saw how much of a doormat I was being, nor how my letting him get away with disrespect towards H and how that made H feel impacted on my marriage, so this is also a 180 for me though my focus here is on good co-parenting rather than anything to do with R.
At the moment, Eldest is in counselling and I am also doing some new parenting methods with boundaries and consequences and added responsibilities that I agreed with H at our family therapy session. I am also making sure to spend some positive one on one time with Eldest as often as I can. It is working. Eldest is calmer, talking to me more, and seems less reactive around certain hot-button issues like homework and chores around the house. Or at least, he is with me. He will still over-react and speak really disrespectfully to H now and again - and instead of H dealing with this using the boundaries and methods that we have agreed, he will often use pretty sarcastic and nasty language. I don't like this, but I can see he's feeling provoked. Which is no excuse.
I am not sure what to do in situations like this. I don't want to engage H in any discussions about his parenting or his relationship with Eldest. It is fruitless. He is very sensitive to perceived criticism and is more interested in rehashing the fact he believes it is all my fault rather than participating in positive solutions for going forward. I'm not having conversations like that with him any more. I can empathise a lot with Eldest's feelings here: H is pretty unpleasant sometimes, and he doesn't show Eldest the care and attention and affection he shows to Youngest, but he isn't abusive toward him. At times Eldest has made gestures that have been clearly to do with seeking attention and love and approval from H, and he's neither not noticed them, or been unwilling or unable to respond with warmth. From the outside, I think if he could apologise for lapses in his temper and stick to the boundaries we've agreed most of the time, while also giving Eldest some love and attention, things would improve immeasurably. But he's not there, and my nagging at him isn't going to get him there. So I need some actions to take to co-parent well - rather than conversations to have with H, as that doesn't work.
What I've done so far:
given Eldest consequences if I hear him speak to H disrespectfully and it doesn't look like H is going to give the consequences himself emphasised to Eldest that while I understand how he feels, and that he is entitled to his feelings and opinions, and that I will always listen (and I will) we all need to be responsible for our own behaviour and he needs to focus on his own when Eldest complains to me about the way H speaks to him, I say a) H doesn't have to be a perfect parent to deserve respect b) he needs to speak to H directly if he is upset by something he has done and c) he needs to look at his own part in the dynamic - H is withdrawn from Eldest but is generally only reactive as a response to disrespect from Eldest when Eldest lies or exaggerates something that H has done or said I challenge him on it. When Eldest responds badly to a request from H when I know he'd respond peacefully to the same request from me, I pull him up on it.
I don't want to triangulate between them. I don't want to manipulate. I don't want to be co-dependent or enabling. I am not sure what the right thing to do here is. The therapist suggested it was best for Eldest if strong boundaries were put in place and I made sure that Eldest knew it was not okay to disrespect H. She also said H needed to be calm and make sure there was positive contact in their relationship. I can only do my bit.
That's very difficult. Are you still going to family therapy? I would think this is best addressed here instead of you having to get involved, you've done your part. It's not your role to be judge or even umpire though, it really seems like it needs to come from them. Can you leave the room if it starts happening?
It's really really difficult. They both put me in the middle fairly often - though less often than when we all lived together - and I don't know how to respond. When Eldest made H a cake last week, and H was a bit graceless about it, Eldest was upset in the kitchen and I was saying something along the lines of 'he's just really tired - you've got to bear in mind how hard he's working at the moment' and my inner self was going 'that's rubbish - he could have pasted on a smile and said thank you and looked enthusiastic for two minutes' and H wasn't happy either and told me off for patronising and making excuses for him. I got so anxious in the end I just left the house - which did help me though I am not sure it really helped anyone else. So I can't win. I think being more silent around this sort of dynamic is needed.
We only had that one session of family therapy. H left early when she challenged him on how obstructive he was being. I asked for her suggestions - which I am implementing - and she emailed me afterwards basically saying she thought therapy between H and I would be useful, or between H and Eldest, but not all together as yet.
I don't think anything will change between Eldest and H unless H is ready to show some gentleness and humility. And he's not. So I am trying to work out how to co-parent positively given the situation as it is.
Hmm, could you make a joke of it? Like get an actual judge's wig or an umpire's cap and put them on and then go 'oh, no, that's not my job, you two are supposed to sort this out together!' and then leave the room. Your H sounds like he's being worse behaved than the teenager TBH
I really like that suggestion, Dilly. Not so much for H - his ego is too delicate to use humour with most of the time, especially around this issue. But it could work with Eldest.
I think I also need to STFU more and get a sense of proportion. Eldest is stroppy and obstructive and often whingey and lazy and moany. But he's also doing very well at school, he doesn't take drugs or smoke, there's no risky sexual behaviour (that I know about) and while he has friends and socialises, I always know where he is and when he's due back. He can be extremely disrespectful to both me and H - more so with H - but I have the feeling that it is within the realms of normal and it's my / our reactions to it that need to be finessed. So - his behaviour isn't acceptable but it isn't hugely worrying in the grand scheme of things. And perhaps he's just going to have to learn to deal with the fact that H isn't going to respond with calm and care and understanding - lots of people wouldn't.
I suspect what's behind this problem is the fact that H over-reacts, and I over-react to H over-reacting, and I pre-over-react if they're going to be in the same room together and get uptight, or try to match make or manage or control things. And H pre-over-reacts to my over-reaction - I think he gets tense and worried thinking that I am going to get upset before Eldest has done or said anything. I probably have a greater influence over what happens in my house than I imagine, and the way through it might be humour, calmness and STFU.
I am away next week, leaving them all together and I am very anxious about it. I wanted to sit down with H and talk about parenting and Eldest, but perhaps the better route would be to just leave some food in the freezer and let them fight it out together.
