I was reading another thread. The idea on the thread were that if the WaW is leaving an LBS who truly wasn’t bad to her and she has no interest in making things work, she must be WW and probably involved with OM. Unless she has a strong reason to leave such as abuse or real mistreatment, not the typical WaW complaints (not enough time together, not enough affection, busy with work) then she should have some urge to not break up the family.
This is just an idea that supports my W is wayward. I remember talking to her just 6 months ago about a couple we know getting divorced. Her moral opinion on that was “people should work on the problems in their marriage. I could never just give up like that”. And here we are 6 months later with her preparing to move out in a few weeks.
It just shows that this isn’t the W I knew previously who had strong morals of family and lasting marriage. I have suspected an EA and while she has done well to cover it up, I feel there must be things going on behind the scene that I know nothing about.
Hallzy, reading up on your sitch, my WW was the same way. Throughout our MR she said D was never an option, it went against everything she believed in. Last year when her recently divorced BFF was going through the process, she would send her texts saying you need to do everything you can to work it out, you owe it to yourselves to reconcile after 20 years together, etc. Perhaps this was the mindset in good times, but when bad times hit, that all goes out the window and they can become hypocrites.
In my sitch the EA with her co-worker started last August followed by BD in early November followed by multiple PAs with OM continuing today. I would assume an affair for a person’s morals to change so rapidly. The WW becomes addicted to the fantasy and exciting feelings shared with the AP and moves swiftly to end the MR due to lust and selfish desires.
Hang in there and keep DBing, hopefully your 180s are noticed and she makes the right choice, but keep your expectations low.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
Your situation is still very young. One of the key principles of Divorce Remedy is that if you focus on changing yourself, you can change your relationship, and you've already seen evidence that your interactions are changing as your behavior changes.
Personally, I feel that marriage is rarely 50-50. Sometimes one spouse is pouring more into the relationship than the other, and then in another season of life, it will be the other spouse giving more. It's expected that if a spouse is not sure they want to be in the marriage, they might not be interested in improving as a spouse. Again, it goes back to DR. One spouse can make a difference, even if the other isn't interested in working on things.
Thanks for the input Rose, Yes you are right, I feel that I have already seen some really positive changes after I have been working on myself. I wish I had more time before we separate. W and MIL will be moving out in 2 weeks now. During most of our M, my W was the one who put the most work into the M. Now it is me who is trying to make a difference as you said.
Originally Posted by Rose888
Even now, years past our crisis, I find that if I start focusing on this thing my husband said or that thing he did, our marriage gets bumpy, whereas if I turn that energy to working on improving my own behaviors as a spouse, things get better. Stay on your side of the street.
(As for sex, in the absence of an affair, and as long as she is living in the house with you, I wouldn't avoid sex if she seems receptive. Sex and touch (if welcomed!) release hormones that encourage bonding.)
You are right Rose. I should just be focusing on improving myself at this point and not worrying about if she will change. Things have already gotten somewhat better since I started working on myself. In regards to the touch, we have been cuddling in bed most nights. Great improvement compared to BD when she would recoil from any touch.
On another note: I’m having some trouble. During our M, my W would always be asking me for favors, “can you grab that for me, can you do this”. Very frequently. I would do some things for her but I didn’t want to feel whipped or appear weak so many times I would tell her to get it herself or do it herself.
Looking back I feel she really didn’t like this. When I would respond do it herself she probably thought, wow he doesn’t care about me enough to even get me a cup if water. The other day she was complaining about how dirty her car was. My MIL said, “we can send hallsy to the car wash”. (MIL is always around and always getting involved in our personal conversations which is a whole other issue in itself). My W responded “he would never do something like that for me”.
So my dilemma: I don’t want to be a doormat for her. But during the M I was refusing to do things for her that I think she really wanted from me. Previously if she asked me to do something, even if I did it I would complain or give her attitude. I have really done a 180 on this and am helping within reason (said no to helping her move out and build furniture in her new apartment). But where do I draw the line in doing favors to avoid being a doormat?
Small update: Wife has gotten upset with me over trivial stuff a few times the last few days. Shut her down for crossing a boundary once and the other times just acted like it didn’t bother me at all. She has made a comment about how I am “a whole new man” a few times this week. She has also complained about changes I have made since BD a few times saying things like “it’s frustrating that now you care about new clothes” among other things.
She ended up canceling the shopping trip she had planned stating “I can’t make it, go without me”. Which I did but as I was finishing she called me asking if I had gone yet and if I could get her something. She also never brought up going to our favorite restaurant after initially saying that we should go. She canceled going to my hockey game yesterday because she “didn’t want to take the time to get ready to go” but she promised she would go next week. I have been playing it off like I could care less that she canceled on me although when she asked if I wanted her and my S to go to my hockey game, I said yes.
Hallzy, reading up on your sitch, my WW was the same way. Throughout our MR she said D was never an option, it went against everything she believed in. Last year when her recently divorced BFF was going through the process, she would send her texts saying you need to do everything you can to work it out, you owe it to yourselves to reconcile after 20 years together, etc. Perhaps this was the mindset in good times, but when bad times hit, that all goes out the window and they can become hypocrites.
Hey Curtis, sorry didn’t see you post until now. I haven’t fully caught up with your sitch but I have read a great deal of it. Seems so absurd to me that these WWs get such crazy fantasies in their head that they up and leave a family and a great husband. From what I’ve read of your sitch you are a great guy and are seriously vested in making the M work and are very dedicated to being a good father. It goes to show that when they become WW all logic and reasoning goes out the window.
I keep finding myself wanting to deny all the red flags I’ve seen that point toward my WW having an EA because she was so loyal and morally right before our sitch started. And while I don’t have evidence and have since stopped looking for evidence due to DBing, I feel that all the signs are there. When I get that denial in my mind I have to remind myself that the old W I knew is gone, replaced by a selfish being who is chasing fantasies and new feelings.
W seemed very interested in me/very pursuing. I got home from work yesterday, my S was sleeping so I got busy with some projects in the yard I’m working on. Came back inside and W was eating dinner with my S in the kitchen. I bbqed my meal and went to eat in the living room.
W said “come here, don’t you want to eat as a family.” Me: We aren’t going to be a family in 2 weeks (when she moves out). W: yes we will still be a family! Me: No we will be 2 separate house holds, that isn’t a family.
I started to walk away after giving my S some attention.
W: come sit down and eat with us! Me: would you like that? W: yes I would
I sat, she talked about her day. I did some good active listening and some validation. I then talked about my day and she was surprisingly interested. I’m not reading into it. We all went to the living room after dinner. W began trying to touch me. I would pull away as I felt as she wasn’t being genuine or was just temp checking. This caused her to go into hardcore pursuit where she kept following me trying to touch me.
I gave her a look like what are you doing. W: “I’m just trying to bother you”. She then asked for me to massage her legs to which I replied “my lower back is pretty sore from house work, I’ll massage you if you massage me.” She said maybe later, obvious temp check.
I received a dresser in the mail as I need more space for all my new clothes. W said “you got yourself a new dresser to build but won’t build me one?” I replied that no I wouldn’t help my W move out and build furniture for her separation apartment. She made a comment something like “you are still going to be my partner”. Didn’t really react to this.
We went to bed and, before our sitch she could only fall asleep if she touches me with part of her body (she has a lot of anxiety problems and I have been her rock and security for many years.). Since BD she would fall asleep on edge of bed but last few nights she has fallen asleep while touching me, like before our Sitch. We also cuddle in the middle of the night.
My question is in regards to respect. I feel as if she has respect for me. Early after BD she went out drinking till 2am. Upon her coming home I made it clear this was unacceptable to me and that I would leave the MR if she did it again. I am not controlling at all and think she needs to get out of the house more and spend more time with friends as I do, but binge drinking till 2am when we have a baby at home is absolutely unacceptable to me. After I had a stern boundary talk with her about it, she hasn’t done it since.
Early after BD I informed her that if I found out she was having an affair, EA or PA that I would leave the MR. I also have no trouble enforcing boundaries on if she talks to me disrespectfully which has only happened a handful of times since BD.
I was reading another thread that said that the LBS should be very strict and not put up with any BS of the WW if she is disrespectful. Stuff like kicking her out of MBR. I feel that my W has gained some respect back for me and hasn’t been acting very disrespectful at all. This builds up leads to my question: Should I prematurely pack all of the pictures of us that are on the wall? I will not keep them up after she moves out. I know I shouldn’t be doing things to get a reaction but I feel like if I pack them up, she will get the message that I don’t need her and am okay with a life without her?
This builds up leads to my question: Should I prematurely pack all of the pictures of us that are on the wall? I will not keep them up after she moves out. I know I shouldn’t be doing things to get a reaction but I feel like if I pack them up, she will get the message that I don’t need her and am okay with a life without her?
I wouldn't, it is likely to look to her like you are trying to punish her. After she moves out it's your choice whether to do it or not. I took them down after S just because I couldn't handle the constant reminders of the happy M that didn't exist anymore.
I wouldn't, it is likely to look to her like you are trying to punish her. After she moves out it's your choice whether to do it or not. I took them down after S just because I couldn't handle the constant reminders of the happy M that didn't exist anymore.
Fair enough, I will just ignore them until she moves out before taking them down, thanks.
It seems like my sitch went from my W thinking she would never have an R with me again, to her now considering me a back up plan or something along that line. I guess this is progress but I don’t like being considered a plan B. Is the best course of plan to continue to detatch? I’ve read that when the WW finally starts losing the LBS is when they can snap out of their fog? I understand this doesn’t happen in every sitch, thanks.
It seems like my sitch went from my W thinking she would never have an R with me again, to her now considering me a back up plan or something along that line. I guess this is progress but I don’t like being considered a plan B. Is the best course of plan to continue to detatch?
Definitely. Don't be cold and indifferent, the key is to lovingly detach. Sandi's rules are a great template on how to behave. You give her time and space but remain cordial and polite. You listen and validate when she wants to talk. But you don't pursue or look for reasons to be in her face all the time. And yes it is normal for a WAS to start to reach out when the LBS starts to detach.
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I’ve read that when the WW finally starts losing the LBS is when they can snap out of their fog? I understand this doesn’t happen in every sitch, thanks.
It's really unusual for a WAS to just snap out of it, and even when they do it's after some time has passed. Steve's is about the fastest turnaround I've seen, usually it takes at least a year. So yes what you say is true, but it takes a long time for them to feel like they are losing the LBS. Not weeks or months, much longer. And the LBS can't fake it, they have to really, genuinely be uninterested before it starts to affect the WAS.
Today I did another house project and planted some new plants and finished building my new dresser after work. W came home as I was working outside and we had some playful making fun of each other banter. She made a comment about how what I was doing was “very interesting. This is all just very interesting”. She has said this often lately and I believe it is in regards to all my 180s. Seems she is still skeptical at times or something.
We had swim class with our S. I don’t think I got into this but a few days ago I told my W that I had bought swim lessons on a separate account than hers and intended to take him without her. She felt very strongly that she wanted to be involved in this as a family. So anyway we signed up for one today and she went with me.
Swim class went well and a few times our son waved to her. (I go in the pool with him, W refuses) A lot of the time she was glued to her phone. Side note: she definitely has some sort of smart phone addiction. This is nothing new so I’m not insinuating she was texting OM or anything. It normally doesn’t bother me, but as I have really stepped up the amount of parenting I do, I am starting to realize how much she focuses on her phone over our son. Like come on it’s a 15 minute class, can’t you just enjoy your kid for a few minutes. I didn’t verbalize this to her it was just a thought.
After class I went to the front desk and solved some problem regarding our account. A 180 as previously I let my W handle most of the child related stuff. We were in the car heading home and W suggested we go shopping because S needed diapers. I agreed. We had a good conversation in the car.
At the store I employed 2 pretty big 180s for me. Previously I would rush through shopping. Whenever W wanted to stop and look at clothes or something I would become annoyed and say something like we don’t have time for this, let’s go. Today I was very patient and happily let her browse through a few sections. She asked my opinion on some clothes and I reacted positively.
The other big 180 was about footing the bill. I previously would be very shallow about funds. After a shopping trip like this I would expect my W to give me some money if I paid for the shopping bill. This I have come to realize is pretty ridiculous as I make far more money than she does and should be providing for my family without complaints. Especially when the majority of it was for my son. I did let my wife get a few small things and she seemed genuinely grateful.
As we got back into the car my W suggested that we go out to eat. Something that she brought up last week but didn’t follow through on. We haven’t had dinner out together since pre BD. I agreed that the food she suggested sounded good. She suggested we eat there but I told her I would prefer if we got it to go as I still needed to do a GAL workout. Also I know Michelle said to not seem overly available and accept every invitation so after shopping together I felt this was okay. We got food (I paid again without a complaint) and we had a nice conversation while waiting for our order.
So yeah seemed like a good night and actually the most normal I have felt with her since BD. It seems that things have improved quite a lot since BD. I just wish I had more time. I think my W jumped the gun with this S. If she didn’t have her mom living with us I don’t think her S plan would have worked out so smoothly because there is no way she could afford to move out without her mom. Oh well that’s how it is and I have to deal with it.
So my question is in regards to LRT. I am almost done with DR book. Michele discusses using LRT when physically separated from W. But she also describes that after performing LRT you may get to a point where things are improving and things are going better with the spouse.
I kind of feel that I am already at a better place with my W after 180s, validation, GAL and am wondering if I go LRT all of a sudden the day she moves out this could be a negative to the progress I have already seen. Things are night and day from BD to now. We are having good conversations, joking around, doing things together we did before BD, interacting with physical touch. A lot of things still need to be improved but I am concerned that if I go LRT after the S it could be a setback.
Does anyone know the part of DR I am referring to where Michelle discusses things getting better and refers to it as the “second possible response” to LRT. Granted I haven’t done LRT yet but what she describes seems similar to my current sitch. Any advice would be appreciated.
I don't believe you should go LRT. It is the last thing to try if all else fails. Sounds like things are moving int the right direction.
I am following loosely. Sounds like no OM. Correct? Keep focused on being "attractive". Lead your W through this.
Thanks for the replies ready. Not the time for LRT got it. In regards to OM I’m not really sure. I’m leaning towards no. She would have to be insanely undercover about it at this point. I think I would have found something the few times I’ve checked her phone. I am no longer snooping at this point though.
I will continue on the course I am taking. I need to hurry up and finish DR but I feel like I’ve read the parts that apply to me the most at the moment. Things do seem to be improving between us. But I am wary about being friend zoned. Should I assume because we are cuddling and have had a few sexual encounters that I am not friend zoned? Also is there even any action the LBS can do to get out of the friend zone? Just curious.
