I am new to this forum so I thought I would introduce myself.
I am 39, was together for 15 years with my 39 yo MLC fiancé. We were not married yet but committed and wanted to start a family, even actively working on that ...
Some years ago we moved to another region for my job and it is not that easy to make friends here. Moreover there was a serious business conflict for Papageno. He started to feel bad, withdraw, he was not himself until 2 years ago he confessed he met the OW ... he moved in with her in May 2018 but already the day after he came back, said it hurt so much, he needed time but the OW would keep pressuring him and certainly leave if he moved back here ... the first couple of weeks he kept in touch until I said I will not be second best and I was not ok with meeting behind her back.
He then became more of the touch and go type but he did keep trying with the most bizarre excuses ... until we met again in September. He then said he thought I wanted to move on but that’s not what I said ... the door is still open even though people think I should let go but that’s just not how I feel. Somehow I feel like we are meant to be together.
I’m not saying I just sit home and wait but I am saying I am open to him coming home.
Before he mostly talked about how he was unhappy about this and that and was I prepared to change whereas last week it was the first time he said he was responsible for this mess, he doesn’t know how to get out of it ... he still lives with the OW but he says he does miss things with her and he still loves me. And that maybe he does not realise half of the misery he is putting me through.
I said to him, you are still afraid to lose her, to which he replied that maybe not so much, but her social situation is tricky and what will her parents say and her children (she is divorced) are in this too and if I leave then her x husband would be right (he has been saying this would not work out all along). So ... the fact that he leaves me when we were starting a family does not matter?! Or what my parents would say??
I have been doing my best to live my life, there are good days and bad ones, like you all know probably. I have been gaining some psychological strength, together with a therapist (one who has experience with midlife crisis) and I actually was on the verge of asking mr MLC to move the company address (that was still at our place) when I got an e-mail from him saying something like he wants to regain mutual understanding, communication was our strength (true), and if I would be prepared to do an exercise. I thought, what to do with this. I can say no, but then I close the door. I can say yes and see where it leads us, but I don't want any cake eating happening. Just because the OW is not intelligent enough to provide conversation (sorry, but it is true!). So I discussed it with my therapist and he advised me to put the address change on hold for the time being and go forth with this to see where it leads. So we did this exercise which actually sounded as though it came straight out of a psychology book and it was thought through, not something you just do in 5 minutes. He tried to put himself in my shoes and told me how he thought all this had affected me (which was actually pretty accurate). I thought well this is new, it is (I think) not "normal" for MLC sufferers to put themselves in someone else's shoes (ha! As if anything is normal in MLC ...). Furthermore he opened up about how he feels (because I also had to do this exercise the other way around and put myself in his shoes), says he feels depressed, anxious, alone, etc. I thought well OK this is more than what happened before ... We met over dinner and had a conversation about this. I was really careful not to allow any cake eating happening. It felt like walking a mine field, on the one hand I did not want cake eating but on the other hand I did not want to shut him out either. I made it clear as long as he lives with the OW it is very difficult for me to help/support him. He said a lot of other things are going through his mind but he needed more time to process those. Fair enough, I thought, we'll see.
That was About a month ago and since then I did not hear anything anymore. My guess is he's back in the tunnel again. It can be so frustrating. But what's more, when asked what bothers me I actually said well one thing is you say A and you do B. And guess what. He said A (wants to restore things) and does B (not a word since then ...). Moreover I know he took a trip with the OW and her kids (did not want to find out. Was told by ... alas). Then I really have to restrain myself not to ask him who is he lying to. Me, the OW, or himself? Since then I did hear something but not too much. I got a message on our anniversary. He also asked if he could pick up his racing bike. So he wants to pick up an old hobby he left behind ... perhaps it is not bad.
Sorry for the long post. My story in a rather large nutshell .
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Don't WAIT for him!!!!! Get on with your life, including dating if you feel so inclined, or at least socializing with mixed groups that include available men if you don't feel like dating.
He KNOWS that you are there waiting and available to him as a backup plan if things don't work out with OW. Don't let him think that. (He's actually more likely to make a decision in your favor if he thinks he's in danger of losing you anyway.)
If he is TRULY interested in getting back together with you, you need to make him do these things: He needs to live alone (no OW and NOT with you initially) He needs to get therapy about why he did this. He needs to give you complete transparency (like access to his phone records etc.) He needs to WORK at winning you back.
These may have been signs that he is turning around, or may just have been more indecisive dithering and an attempt to make sure you're there just in case he needs you.
Honestly - I would really advise, if you want to have children, that you move on. Not because I'm saying he won't come back - he might - but because he has already shown the character flaw that he can lie and do this. I took my exH back early in our marriage after he had cheated on me; I thought we were good and went on to have 3 children with him and a mostly happy life - until he had another affair at 42 and left me when he was 50 and having a midlife crisis. My three adult children still have pain from that and I feel like it is MY fault. I TOOK that risk with my ex, it's fine for ME to risk it, but I subjected my kids to that risk and it didn't turn out well.
If your ex-fiance cannot do the VERY hard work of figuring this out and changing for the better, he'll never be the person you want by your side when hard challenges hit, like a seriously ill child or a teenager with a drug addiction.
Thank you for the advice and the links, I will look into it!
Maybe I have to clarify something. We had an open relationship, that was a mutual agreement. To each their own, I guess most people would not agree to this but we did. The OW did not, obviously, in the end. Anyway, as opposed to most MLCers I guess, there were no lies here.
That said, I do agree with you kml about the things he needs to do.
I do try to live my life, even though dating is not for me right now. I tried, but I was not really into it and did not think it fair to these men.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
We had an open relationship, that was a mutual agreement.
Quote
I do try to live my life, even though dating is not for me right now.
Ummm....ok, so you had an open relationship but that meant he dated others but you didn't? or you dated others but as soon as he left you stopped dating? It makes a big difference.
If the "open relationship" was just that he could sleep with other women but you were monogamous - nope, nope, nope that's so ridiculously unfair. That's just a guy who wants to cheat or indulge his sex addiction without losing you.
If the "open relationship" was more the traditional type where both parties are free to have sex outside the relationship - why did you stop? Why wouldn't you still be seeing other men? Why would you choose monogamy (currently celibacy) now that he's gone?
I can see why you have some questions . Let's just say it is something we shared - quite literally. So, on my own it's just not that appealing. Much like other things we liked to do together ... at the moment I am not doing them because it is too painful at this time. Regardless of the type of relationship, the grieving is quite similar for all of us I guess. I lost the one who was most important to me - at least for now, and I think people change due to this kind of crisis - perhaps for the better if they come out of it, that remains to be seen.
I did take up a lot of things that were more my own and I neglected for some time. I also realise I have tolerated way too much (and I am not talking about the open relationship thing here). Unlike what I heard a lot of times from LBS of MLCers, Papageno never got mad at me or blamed me for everything, he never lied to me either (that I know of). I only saw depression. I think, looking back, that is part of why I tolerated too much - I thought it would help him battle depression. Of course, now I know better and putting boundaries is something I continually work on.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
In general, though ... I think I was lucky (or wise enough ) to get a coach for myself a few weeks after BD.
I can tell you I really had to leave my comfort zone because I was always there for him before (and vice versa, before the MLC) and letting him sort out his own mess has been one of the hardest things I ever had to do. Not replying directly to his mails/texts/calls, not being available all the time (that was a case of fake it till you make it ... I might have faked that a bit in the beginning, but honestly right now there are times when he wants to meet for whatever reason and I really don't have time to spare!).
I changed therapists because my first one did not really believe in MLC as such (she says it's just an excuse for cheaters and it is astonishing how many of them "wake up" when they see the spouse moving on (well she might be on to something there, but for different reasons)), but still I was lucky to have found her because she really worked on my self confidence. My current coach has more experience with MLC.
We were not married, so that does make things easier with regard to finances etc. Some things are still joined since we own a house together, but most of it is separate and I can't be held responsible for anything he might get into.
Right now I do not contact him myself unless it is something urgent, but if he wants to talk and initiates contact himself I am open to it. I try to keep my expectations low. Last month I really thought something might have changed since he wanted to do this exercise to regain mutual understanding, but since then nothing really happened. At least not on the outside - he might be digesting things internally who knows.
I try to detach, but I find it hard to do and by that I mean for now I am still standing (I do sound like Elton John, don't I ), there might come a day when I am done with this but not right now. However, I find it difficult to detach without giving up permanently. I am not sure if I explain it properly. He is in a boat heading for a waterfall, and I do not want to go down that road so I try to get out of the boat and stand on the side, but I have not walked away from the shore yet.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
The hardest part for me is dealing with other people. People on my side who don’t understand why I remain standing (for now) and keep saying I can’t wait around forever (true, but I take one day at a time) and people on his side who apparently seem to think it is perfectly acceptable to drop your fiancée you knew for 15 years to move in directly with another woman who apparently has no problem at all breaking up families since 1/ she goes after an engaged man and 2/ she was married twice before and both marriages ended with (you guessed) her running off with another guy. Not sure they know the second part but still. IF we should try again some day I really don’t know how to fix the relationships with his family. (Or perhaps they did tell him off. I guess he would never admit that to me.)
Anyway. Sometimes I wonder am I doing this right. Since apparently he does not follow up on his wish to fix things we talked about a month ago. I guess it’s possible he will blame me again and say something like “see, you did not contact me anymore so you don’t care”. (Yes, I do. Which is exactly why I back off ...)
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
If he is in crisis, he will not follow up on anything that he says that he wants to do. Why? Because the main ingredient of a MLC is depression. Sure, they say that they are going to do something at such and such time and guess what?? It's not done. Time is very, very slow for the person in crisis. They tend to be confused a lot of the time and don't realize just how much time has gone by. We, on the other hand, see how time flies and we tend to get frustrated when they don't follow through on things that they have promised to do. The only thing you can do is be patient and keep your expectations at zero at all times.
They will blame everyone for their problems. They are wearing blinders at the moment and can't see that they have issues and that there are things that they need to do for themselves. Keep in mind, you were fired from being his fiancé at the moment. You aren't his mother and it's not your responsibility tor remind him of what he needs to do.
Take some time and read up on MLC and more importantly depression. I think it will shed more light on why he's pushing along at the slower pace.
Keep the focus on you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
The MLCer will generally pick an affair partner with little morals or concern for the LBS
They also pick someone, they may be able to rescue, another person in MLC, or with serious issues
I believe the MLCer will also lie to the OW and paint whatever story is needed to get closer to them
They think that by pursuing this new life, they may find utopia and the happiness they deserve unfortunately, that is not how the story plays out
If he is in True MLC, You may see him get worse over time.. more depression-maybe drugs, alcohol, spending, gambling, tattoos, new clothes, new hair color, cars ect..
You sound well grounded and have support It takes us 1-2 years to grieve the loss- and its best to do just that while you watch to see what direction he takes
If he is in MLC, you will see many signs of this in his dress and character- and there is NO way to reach him He has to figure it out
Only few will recover fully
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Now that you mention it. I know depression is a big part of MLC but I know some people with « regular » depression and the big difference is they all know what is wrong with them and most of them get professional help. That said, you might be right it is good to read about depression.
Papageno often says he has issues. He even admitted he is not happier in his new life (well, he literally said he feels depressed and anxious and it all goes very deep). It seems deep down the knowledge is there but he fails to act upon it.
Rest assured he picked an OW with as much issues, one he tries to rescue. This has been going on for some time and I have seen him get worse. Working out excessively, new clothes (though that was partly necessary due to weight loss), wanting to cover the gray hairs, talking about plastic surgery (as far as I can see he hasn’t had any yet)
I think in time (sometimes LONG time) most will recover but I also think this kind of thing changes people. For the good or for the bad remains to be seen.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
I read the thread about being a doormat that is in the welcome post. Quite a few posts out there describe exactly how I feel. Especially in dealing with other people. I have been careful not to disclose too much to my family, because I don’t want to burn bridges. (I am pretty sure if I told them he lives with the OW right now, it would make things extremely difficult to mend in the future). A lot of people are concerned I am/act like a doormat. However, I do not feel that way. I do have set boundaries. For example: no discussing anything concerning the OW with me. No texting or calling when he is with me (probably he lied to her about where he is at that moment, but that is not my responsibilty ... and since she expects him to be available all the time (who the *** can live with such a controlling person?!) it might be an issue).
I also said last time if he truly wants to fix things I would want to be there but since he lives with the OW he has to understand he is making this very difficult (or something similar). And since he does not take any steps I often wonder did I do the right thing there ... It’s like someone said in the Doormat thread I don’t want him to think I am done with this and it is impossible to fix things - but there are conditions - only sometimes I think he did not hear it that way.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
He knows that you want to be there when he wants to fix things, but he's not ready to do that right now. Talking to him about it isn't going to snap him out of his funk...but it may push him even further into the MLC fog. The best thing you can do is listen, offer no advice unless he asks for it.
You've set your boundaries and he is very much aware of them. Do not waffle when setting boundaries.
He has to fix himself before he can even begin to think of repairing the relationship w/you. He's not even close to be "healed" and the crisis can take many years to recover from. Try to remember,, the more you push, the further he will run from you.
Keep the focus on you. Live your life as if he may not return. Find things to keep yourself busy and try to remember...you did not break him, therefore you can't fix him.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
That is something I have to constantly remind myself of, for even though he is much “nicer” (by lack of a better word, sorry I am not a native English speaker!) than most MLCers I read about ... and by that I mean he does say there were many good things between us, does not blame me for just about everything including the fact that it rains today, and never showed any anger towards me, he still reminds me of the things he considered an issue in our relationship. And the thing is, he is right he mentioned these things long before this MLC started. That makes me doubt the whole MLC thing sometimes even though in other aspect he is a textbook patient.
I did not initiate that last talk to be clear. He did. He was the one suggesting we did the exercise. That was one of the reasons I thought well maybe something will change. I still think it did take some courage to propose it, knowing there might be a chance I would not be interested. I told him that as well, that I did acknowledge that must have taken some courage. Though, sometimes I wonder were these intentions genuine, or was it just a strategy to make sure I would not go anywhere?
He keeps saying he is trying to get his company back on track and that is the way out of this mess. Well ... perhaps. I would think professional help is needed, but he needs to make that call. The fact is, the actual MLC trigger, looking back, was the conflict with his business partner so perhaps trying to rekindle the business is not a bad thing. I also notice he stopped doing the Tupperware stuff he started on the side (I nearly choked when I found out. He used to need a GPS to find his way to our kitchen ...).
I actually don’t think I push anything. I admit I used to make that mistake in the beginning, didn’t we all ...
I do try to focus on myself. Sometimes I just need to vent and the best place is right here because I know I won’t be judged. People in my circle of friends and family mostly don’t understand, warn me not to be a doormat, or think I should be over him and just move on. Even though I do this for ME in the first place, sometimes I do wonder how he can be aware of these changes since he does not live at home and we do not meet that often. Certain changes consider some of the issues he had ... I guess for some of the other ones he will just have to trust me in due course, like I would have to trust him not to do something like this again.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
This is a good place to vent DB helped teach me to change for me-
It gave me a way to deal with the beginning of MLC and all the posters understand and have been thru it- It helped me change and be the best version of me possible when he left
I practiced detachment I grieved ,cried ,screamed and got all things out in therapy
I was cordial and supportive to my XH I have no regrets with him- not one-
Many family members and friends may not understand MLC But there are many women out there who do get it and have experienced similar situations I met many supportive people on the journey, and you will too
Continue to work on you as you are- Watch the MLCer..but do not pursue any talks
In fact you may want to be more mysterious, don't answer calls for a few days be busy
don't let him know you are waiting around- you are creating a new and better life
If he decides to leave the OW and try again- you will be the first to know
I don't think many mlcers will return to a LBS who is waiting- I think they may be more inclined to be curious to see what you are doing if you are detached and busy
But remember nothing we can do can make them come back- many things can push them away-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Rest assured I got the being mysterious part - BD was A year ago, 1.5 years actually, in the beginning this was A case of fake it till you make it but not anymore. My first coach gave me A rule of thumb. She said unless it is really urgent, for every 3 times he contacts you (text, mail, call) you can answer once, and only after at least A couple hours. It sounds stupid, but it helped!!
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
Sometimes I do wonder about the OW and his new life. I know it’s not the best thing to do and most of the time I don’t. But sometimes, I can’t help myself. He was pretty depressed when he left home to live with her. I can’t imagine that went out of the window all of a sudden. Plus, he has a lot more responsibility with her ... children, and the need to provide an income. (With me it was not really an issue, I earn enough for the both of us plus there were no children). And let’s not forget the stalker ex husband he so desperately wanted to save her from (believe me he even wrote her texts to send to the ex husband because she was either not smart enough, or was playing the damsel in distress).
Anyway either he has to put on a mask all the time to not show his depressed self to the OW (and that must cost a lot of energy) and/or she has to put up with it. How that is going to last is beyond me. I don’t ask anything and like I said I put the boundary he cannot discuss anything with me that involves her. But sometimes I do wonder ... he says he fell in love, but did he really? Isn’t it more like an addiction, and they gave up a lot to be together both of them so if they leave now ... they would both have to own up to a lot of bad decisions.
He keeps saying he never should have made this decision under that much pressure (OW pressure). He’s been saying this for like 9 months or so but he doesn’t change. Yep, I know, never believe anything he says right now.
As for her, she pressures him in about everything. Leaving me for her, changing his address, meeting his parents, going to the big family New Year gathering (that was the one thing he refused and they had a huge fight over it apparently), “being out in the open” (in the past I accidentally found out about their joint FB profile which clearly is her doing.). Meanwhile she blocks me whenever possible. Even though she does not have a reason, ie I never call, never contact them, unless absolutely necessary (1 time in a year!) and yet she feels it is necessary to do so. Could it be she feels threatened by me because deep down she knows very well what is going on, that they don’t have love but mutual addiction that will not last, and she bears no comparison to me because, even though buried deeply, the love he has is still for me? (Sorry if it is not put correctly)
Venting done for the day I guess .
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
Think about this everything is energy--Yes its true, you are not calling or stalking
but they may feel your intense need to figure it out- It is when our energy shifts----really shifts--really letting go
Train your mind to wish him and her all the best of happiness Train your mind to let him go- let them feel your gone- no thoughts about them no talks about them
takes time --yes Their Relationship will never work but they can stay together for a long time- eventhough they will not find the true love they seek
yes-she is a control freak
The last message I got in 2018 was from my XH lovely OW(wife)- She told me he has ruined her life and she wants to ship him back??
I never responded-
For some reason the MLCer will pick needy controlling women and leave a LBS who was a way better choice- Hard to figure out-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Thanks for the reply. You know, as for her, I can’t wish her Happiness yet. It is already a huge step I don’t wish her dead anymore ... I just try to not feel anything about her. (Going for an engaged man is already bad. But telling me to my face we will need to give him time, and meanwhile giving him a date on which he has to have made up his mind ... that is a new level of lying snake, sorry ...)
As for him, that is actually one of the things that makes it so difficult. If I would see he is happy, that would be difficult for me, but I sincerely wish he would be, after all I still love this man. But, every time I see or hear him it is more than clear he is not happy at all. He even admits he feels depressed, sees no future and it goes very deep. To hear him say that and to clearly see he does not look happy at all ... that is very frustrating.
He even says he still loves me, and even though he certainly doesn’t act like it, that is the one thing I do believe.
Funny you should say that about energy. That is exactly what I think. A couple nights ago I dreamt I sat with the OW and told her I forgave her everything. Funny enough since then I do feel a bit softer about her, even though I have not yet consciously forgiven her. The night after that, I dreamt something about me and my MLCer that is really not to be published .
I try to occupy myself and focus on other things. I guess it is more difficult right now since Bomb Drop Anniversary is coming up in 2 days. Sometimes I wonder if he remembers.
Last edited by Papagena; 05/15/1906:41 PM.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
That's ok wishing her the best will come especially if we train our minds
Their new life together is none of your business-and as time moves on he will fade away especially if you limit contact
I know you love him but you are not M to him and it could be easier to move on b4 kids ect…
Sometimes the MLCer will repeat more of the same with infidelity even if they return and seem sincere we see this a lot on these boards Im sure you have thought about that but follow your heart and gut
and continue to make your life better , heal and keep going as you practice more detaching and letting go
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I know what you mean: if they return too soon and did not yet complete the crisis then they might relapse and leave again. Which is partly why I don’t pressure him. He might give in, but then what would i have. A man who does not sincerely want to be with me. Much like the OW has now ... in A sense.
Believe me I have thought about whether standing is the best way to go for A lot of reasons. At this time I just take one day at A time and try to focus on me and that is already enough on my plate:
You know sometimes he asks things about my life and there are things I don’t mind sharing but sometimes I make it clear (gently) that right now that is none of his business ... and then he gets irritated. Like he expects nothing has changed.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
Well, after about 2 months he asks to meet. But, apparently he wants to meet during working hours. Even if I would want to (which, to be clear, I don’t) it’s impossible for me to take time off the coming weeks. I do have an idea why it is so important to him to meet during the day. That way the OW would not know about it. Which is exactly the reason I don’t want to do that. I am worth more than being a secret. So, I sent a reply saying unfortunately that is not possible, but surely we can find a suitable time in the evening? He also asked to pick up some mail, but that time is not convenient for me. So he said, if he is willing to take time off he was hoping I would be willing to do the same. Mind you taking time off for him means not planning any meetings since he works freelance. Whereas for me it really means taking time off work. He also asked to put the mail by the front door so he can take it. But, I prefer he does not enter when I am not home. So that’s what I said, I am willing to find a suitable time to meet in the evening and he cannot enter the house to pick up mail if I am not there. Now he asks if I can send his mail because he doesn’t want to miss some payment that is due. Well I don’t know what’s in it but surely this is not my responsibility?
I am putting boundaries ... no secret meetings, no rushing off if we meet, and no trespassing. Doesn’t seem that unreasonable to me ...? Right now he doesn’t react angry, he remains nice and polite but it seems he does try to get it his way. Also, he refuses to say why it is important to meet during the day (which to me is a huge red flag ...). Sounds familiar?
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
You could just be blunt about it. "No. I can't afford to take off work. Why can't we meet after work - are you afraid your girlfriend will get jealous?" Then he'll meet you at night just to prove he's not controlled by her. Haha.
I might just do that next time . Well, he says he has no problem with me opening his personal mail because "he does not have any secrets for me". Whoa. First of all, he does have a BUNCH of secrets for the OW, so that's saying something, but at this time it does not concern me. Second, that USED to be true. He has no secrets for me, and yet he refuses to tell me why he wants to meet during daytime. Hm. I might just bring that one up.
Anyway ... I replied (kind, but firm) that I appreciate the trust he has in me, but that at this time his personal mail is not my business, that he can come and pick it up whenever I am home (no trespassing!) and if he wants to meet, surely we can find a suitable evening (or perhaps, weekend).
That was 3 days ago. Up till now, complete silence again.
Last edited by Papagena; 06/14/1901:23 PM.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
I has been about 6 weeks since I wrote last. I have good and bad days. I lost 10 kgs, still about 20 to go but I do feel better already.
As for the MLC, haven't seen him in about 3 months. I did hear from him sometimes, mostly for the mail ... he did pick it up and then kind of accused me for not paying a bill. That's when I thought I am done with this nonsense, if he can't be responsible for his own mail then he needs to change the company address asap. So I explained I felt like he did not take responsibility and I would like him to change the company address. Got a reply back saying I could have given him a warning I was not about to pay the bills (?!) but anyway as for the mail he saw 2 options, 1/we put a second mailbox outside and each take a key that way he would not have to enter the house or 2/ we settle the house (I buy his share) he collects all of his stuff and moves the company address.
I was like wait ... what? It is actually pretty easy to have your mail sent through to another address so I don't get why he did not do that. (He would have to drive an hour total to pick up the mail!!). But anyway I was not about to put a second box so I said this situation isn't my choice, but since he asks and I want to avoid issues in the future (like who is going to pay for things concerning the house etc) I propose we settle the house.
It took him a week to reply, saying he wanted to avoid this (?! He proposed it?!) but maybe I am right it is the best thing to do, and this situation must hurt both of us and he is sorry for that.(I know, never believe anything he says right now).
Well that is about the most insightful thing I heard since we did the exercise back in March (no follow up on that one though ... I did listen to him back then, this exercise was his doing, and it showed quite a lot of insight but it seems this was a one time moment of brightness ...).
Settling the house for me is purely practical and does not have anything to do with standing or not standing.
To me it seems like he is just frozen. He does not do anything. Not even the typical MLC stuff of spending and going out etc ... when I hear something it's just depression all over.
I am not sure he realises when the house is settled, if he does not do any effort he will not hear or see me again because I will not be the one initiating anything. I guess that wasn't part of his plan ...
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
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), there might come a day when I am done with this but not right now. However, I find it difficult to detach without giving up permanently. I am not sure if I explain it properly. He is in a boat heading for a waterfall, and I do not want to go down that road so I try to get out of the boat and stand on the side, but I have not walked away from the shore yet.
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