Complex WW and/or MLC #3

[unchien]

PJ - Sorry I'm not fully up on your sitch. Why does your W want to see your IC?

[P_Jam]

Unchien,
She wants to see my IC becasue... before she moved out and when I found out about GGW event I had started to push/suggest she seek some counseling (she didnt know I knew about GGW) so it was not exactly clear why I was asking this. Furthermore, I have made one of my stipulations for reconciliation IC/MC. More recently I have just been referencing MC because I did not want her to feel like I'm diagnosing her, or pushing HER. Just that to get through this (if we so choose) will require 3rd party help. We discussed before seeing the same counseling (Individually) then also together in previous discussions. So in short.. this is her taking the 'next step'. I'm actually a little torn that she chose IC since I had bee referencing MC for so long, but also a little proud of her because I do believe she has her own issues and 180's to work on before we can actually focus on MC.

[P_Jam]

General Update,
Had kids golf practice last night (which is usually where we have dinner and she spends the night). My goal was to be available and friendly like normal but also try to avoid dinner, drinks and staying the night. I did. She showed up to pick up the kids (I had purposely already ate) she had one glass of wine we chatted a bit about her day etc.

Then she brought up the kids event that is today. It's Jr golf Kick-off so they have a big carnival event for the kids. She said:
W: "What about the carnival tomorrow you haven't said anything?"
M: "It's your weekend with the kids I figured if you wanted to go or wanted me to go you would say something"
W: "oh"
M: "Are you asking me to go?"
W" Well do you already have plans?"
M: "no, I can be available if you want to take them together"
W: "Okay sounds good, so then can we just plan on me spending the night tomorrow?"
M: "Sure that sounds good, but FYI I do have stuff to do on Saturday" - In other words please get up and get going in the morning I'm not able to do all of Saturday as well.

So she didn't spend the night last night but she is definitely pushing for more of that. Or at least wanting to keep to at least once a week.

I believe she is feeling the rope drop. I'm not 100% there yet but I am getting much closer. I've been able to internalize that reconciliation will take a VERY long time and we are headed in the right direction, but I'm also very aware that just because we start reconciliation it doesn't actually mean we will survive it and end up back together. I'm dead set on a new, better, deeper relationship and although I do believe I will have a chance to find out if she can get there - I'm not as convinced she actually will. As she begins to come back I'm worried that she's only looking for what she knows is 'comfortable' and not realizing we need a new equilibrium. Because of this I have been able to continue to detach while also starting to win her back. She is feeling this and I hope that this feeling and the IC actually gets us to the next milestone but I'm doing my best to not rush and/or pressure.

[sandi2]

So she didn't spend the night last night but she is definitely pushing for more of that. Or at least wanting to keep to at least once a week.

I believe she is feeling the rope drop.

Really? When do you think she felt the rope drop? Was it between the times you were playing happy family, or between the times you were having sex together?

It's called Dropping the Rope........not Slowly Releasing the Rope. But either way, it would require you taking your hands completely off the rope, and I just don't think you will do it. You are too much of a controller & pursuer to take your hands off and not grab for that rope again.

[AnotherStander]

Yeah I have to agree with Sandi, I chuckled when I read about all the stuff y'all are doing together and then you believe she is feeling the rope drop, LOL! I don't think you understand what dropping the rope is. Dropping the rope would be no dates, no sleepovers, no chatting and texting and having meals together and making plans to do stuff. Dropping the rope is letting her go and leaving her to do what she wants while you live your own life independently of her. It's you not knowing if she's in an A, and more importantly, not caring.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to do but it sounds like you're trying to "nice" her back. That doesn't work, that puts you firmly under Plan B status. Detach!

[P_Jam]

Sandi/AS

I get your point. You might be correct. Maybe I'm not dropping the roper per-say. However, I am really enjoying my GAL and the interactions I have with her mostly revolve around the kids and good opportunity to just have some fun in each others company. What she feels is that yes it would be good and fun if she was around and if these nights continued but I believe she also knows that I'm totally fine if they don't. I'm not bothered if she doesn't stay and I don't push for any of it. I just create and opportunity for her to decide to attend or not.

I believe we are both pursuing in our own way. She has told me numerous times that PA/EA are done. Granted she hasn't provided all the necessary details I would expect in MC/reconciliation but she continues to let me know that those were mistakes and that she is sorry. She is not defensive about her actions she is remorseful. I believe she still has doubts about me getting over the situation and if we could actually move forward, but I don't believe she blames me for her behavior anymore.

Furthermore, as I've said previously I don't deny some pursuing. This is the one aspect about my Sitch that I've openly balanced against the DB'ing technique. I've done so in a very balanced "lighthouse" style. I'm here, I'm ready but until there is some change/commitment from her... I'm NOT WAITING. My life is moving forward as a single guy and she just happens to still be a part of it. I have turned her into my Plan B until she decides she wants to be plan A. This is probably a better way to say it rather than dropping the rope. I've given her the power to change my course of actions but at this point I'm going in a direction that doesn't have to include her in my life romantically.

Update:
She stayed the night on Friday after the kids carnival. After the kids went to bed she started another relationship talk. At this point I don't even remember how she started it. It was a little bit 'heated' but I think we both got some things off our chest. I could have done a much better job validating. I know this cause she to flat out told me. She said that I just need to stop talking and do more listening. Which I believe to be a valid point, but it is hard considering our current sitch. Based on the PA/EA I do feel bit defensive and it's hard for me validate when I don't believe we have properly dealt with the severity of those situations. But after she said that... I stopped talking and just started validating. Just letter her have a voice (regardless of what she said). It really calmed things down and after listening for a VERY long time I accepted and validated almost everything (as they are already part of my 180's) and I acknowledged that she was right and those things I'm already working on. I wrapped up the conversation by saying: I acknowledge your point about listening and I will focus more on that aspect with her. Then I asked if she could please understand why it is so hard? I told her that I'm fully aware of the EA/PA and without willingness to try and 'win' me back in some way makes me feel very insecure. I want someone who wants me, and you have not done enough to help me feel like the only guy that matters to you now. Although they may have ended there is nothing you are doing that says you won't start another one tomorrow. So Until we actually deal with the elephant in the room and decide that we are committed to each other and the process of getting through it - the 'playing house' is only for fun. I can't allow it to be or mean anything more as I will not give her the opportunity to have her cake and eat it to. She validated this for me and acknowledged how it must be tough...

We went to bed (no sex, no kiss or hug). I left early the next morning.

She brought the kids over on fathers day and we spent some time together. She wrote me a very long wonderful letter about what a great father I am ( just as I did for her on Mothers day). It was really nice and was also specifically about fatherhood and good times in the past. No 'relationship' stuff.

She starts IC (with my same IC) on Thursday... We will see.

I know you all have doubts, so do I - but we are headed in the right direction and I do believe that my own personal technique/strategy has been working.

[LH19]

Any updates?