Complex WW and/or MLC #3

[P_Jam]

PJ,

I am not saying I don't agree with some of what you say but what I do disagree about is your timeline. Bare minimum should be six months. I think waiting until after Christmas would be better.

Minimum 6 months for what? Just to have the conversation about whether she is willing to 'work on it/date or not?

Cause I do get the feeling that she WANTS to date me again. I know I take risk here, but I have a hard time passing this up. My only stips are MC (after a couple of positive date interactions not as a prerequisite up front) and that we completely avoid or at least strongly minimize 'playing-house' as a family so as not to confuse the kids and/or opening the door for complete cake eating.

[LH19]

Yes.

Why do you get the feeling she wants to date you again?

[P_Jam]

She has always given that feeling and originally that was always the intention of the separation. But I'm the one that followed the advice here and stopped that by stating that I wouldn't have anything to do with her until she basically came back on bended knee and dropped ALL OM, and my actions have maintained that stance. I'm not competing with 1 OM that she is 'in love' with. I'm competing with the attention "honeymoon" phase and feelings she gets from these (cause she got none of it from me). She has told me numerous times "I"m know one else's", I still see myself with you", etc, etc. All stuff that I know may not be fully trustworthy. But through our normal interactions through the kids I'm starting to see these comments in a different light.

I still do not want to date her while she is seeing OM (only so much of this I can control) but I do believe that because she is nervous/scared about whether this can work out or not she's respecting my wishes (not because she MUST be with OM) - as stated above I'm not sure waiting until she is 100% committed is actually the best course of action in my sitch. She's worried there is just too much damage to R - so I believe she needs to start to feel that we too can have a honeymoon phase and that there is reason to put in the work/time to fully R.

Basically she isn't 100% committed to our relationship (not necessarily because of OM) - so she is keeping distance for us both as requested.

[P_Jam]

To be clear.. I will ASK her if she wants to date again and be fully clear about my no OM requirment. Not just assume and begin pursuing. I will give her every opportunity to stop all of this if she so chooses. But because we have both done the same thing to each other, I do not want to push her away unnecessarily. She has a real REASON to never come back to me (unlike many other sitch's here)

[AnotherStander]

I personally know 2 couples that have survived (currently) infidelity in closer to 6-9 months rather than the 12-24 that is consistently spoken about here.

This isn't an exact science. We've had at least two people here (Steve is one) that reconciled in less than 12 months and we've had quite a few that reconciled way past 24 months. I have a friend that reconciled after 7 years apart. But under 12 months is highly unusual.

My IC also states that there are many that can start the piecing process MUCH sooner. Granted the key is both being committed to the work both together and individually.

And if they are then that is not a WAS situation. There are a lot of couples that go through infidelity without a BD. They choose to work on things rather than split.

Cause I do get the feeling that she WANTS to date me again. I know I take risk here, but I have a hard time passing this up. My only stips are MC (after a couple of positive date interactions not as a prerequisite up front) and that we completely avoid or at least strongly minimize 'playing-house' as a family so as not to confuse the kids and/or opening the door for complete cake eating.

We give pretty consistent advice here, and some people follow it and some don't. That's your personal choice and more power to you either way. But nearly all the people that chose your path ended up right back here again saying "you were right, it didn't work." They usually just get BD affirmed to them all over again. But sometimes that needs to happen for them to well and truly drop the rope, so do it if you must.

EDIT- paging Maika. He thought the same thing you did, I hope he pops in and let's you know how that worked out for him.

[P_Jam]

And if they are then that is not a WAS situation. There are a lot of couples that go through infidelity without a BD. They choose to work on things rather than split.

And if you go back to my original sitch post(s) I could 'argue' that there never was an official BD. I caught the affair and to me the excuses/conversations that happened were just the excuses/justification/etc.. She is out of the house because of me (not her). Maybe that is why I've been a little confused/different here. To me the affair was the BD then I BD back
and then one GGW happened (might have been retaliatory) and then started some DB'ing (which has done very good at times) and here we are.

I get your point, I might just need another BD. But maybe not. Seems like the risk/reward is not too much to worry about. It doesn't really get worse.

[LH19]

PJ,

Some of what you say has some validity and some does not.

If she didn’t want to leave she would have said something along the lines “PJ no I’ll do anything to save this marriage”.

[P_Jam]

LH,
We already agree on this. I know for sure she doesn't know if she wants to save this marriage. But I don't think I have a right to assume that she SHOULD know this 100%. I don't even know 100%.

I'm not ignoring that she still has a lot of individual work to do. I still believe she doesn't even know why she was able to get to a point of cheating (multiple times). but I'm also convinced she is genuinely confused and hurt. and things like LRT might very well still work (in the long run) but possibly working through this WITH her might also work.

might be naivete but I think that if I had been able to expose her affairs and the necessary details without exposing that I had bugged the house she very well could have said those exact words. She said words VERY close to that and ended PA when she thought I was unaware of the physical part. The bugging/invasion was a SIGNIFICANT factor and I believe was the only actual BD. I'm pretty sure I would still do it again - but as far as a BD list I think this issues is #1, #2 and #3.

Looking back I also think that If I didn't actually find out the truth and confront her she might very well have been on the full R path. If I would have let it go then (when I thought she cheated but denied it and I believed her) - I think she would have felt it was a well deserved wake up call and begun to work it out. Now, I'm not sure that would have been the best path as it would not have allowed me to understand how deep her individual issues might just be. I think our relationship would have changed for the better (at least a bit) - but I'm not convinced it would have stopped her from cheating forever.

[IHCLACS]

If I listened to everyone here at BD, removed my emotions, really put my balls in front of me like I said I would post BD. Didn't leave the MBR, and then take it back after a month. Told the W at BD to pack her $hit, get out of the house, and go live by her mother's if she wanted space. I probably wouldn't be as escalated as far into my sich today. Ego or not. I'm jumping off the limbo fence , and pulling the trigger on the D. No man should ever allow his W to give him ultimatums. PERIOD. Anytime a woman wants to trade up for a life without you, or with someone else. Cut the damn reel. Get used to being alone. Accept it, make friends with it again. Be comfortable in your own skin. Invest in yourself, and you will attract someone on your level the 2nd time around.

[Tryhard]

Listen to all the advice you are given , you can choose what you feel if you must , but you are being given great advice, it’s up to you