Seeing H yesterday was mainly cordial. He was exhausted and has a big assessment today he was very anxious about. I just got my stuff together and treated him in a warm but distant manner. I mentioned that I'd done some changes to the routine and what I expected from Eldest (so he knew what he was supposed to do chores-wise while I was out) and he sneered and made a sarcastic comment. I said, 'That's not okay. You can leave if you want. But if you're here we all need respect from you,' and he didn't respond at all - but he did act a lot more respectful after that. It was fine when I got back - I gave him a hug and said I knew he was stressed and I wished him well for tomorrow. He sent goodnight text message - which is starting to become a usual thing for him.
I know he gets sarcastic when he feels threatened - it is his passive aggressive way of communicating something is happening that he doesn't like. I will never ever ever be subject to it without saying something ever again - I just can't. I can't stand by while he makes catty and mean remarks - totally unprovoked - about my child. Having said that, I was telling him off like he was a child (my tone was really calm and direct, I wasn't shouting or whining) and that doesn't feel good either. I was prepared to kick him out and stay in with the kids if he wasn't able to act respectfully towards them and me in my home - that's my boundary and I think he knew it.
I think you handled it pretty well, if someone is behaving childishly then they need that boundary. And you repaired it afterwards by expressing warmth and concern for him. Understanding why he's behaving badly doesn't mean you let him get away with it. If you'd expressed yourself in an angry or defensive way then that wouldn't have been helpful, but it sounded like you were assertive and calm about it. What is wrong with being calm and direct when calling out bad behaviour? Is it too unnatural for you?
Yeah - it really is. I know in the past I would have tried to either convince him that he was in the wrong, or started weeping and wanting him to apologise and take it back. It was different - I was just calm and said it wasn't acceptable if he was going to be in the house, and left it at that. I don't want to make excuses for him - I can understand that he feels me giving the Eldest responsibilities is a bit of a trigger point for him (he always felt I was far too lax - and I think he had a point) but I'm not interested in arguing about it any more. I am making changes and giving him information about the kids and he can have whatever opinions and feelings he likes, but his conversation with me must be respectful if I am going to participate in it. What was different was me saying it was unacceptable then just letting it lie as well. In the past I might have harped on about it and tried to extract some kind of apology from him. I didn't do that - I just got on with getting ready, went out, and was cordial when I got back. I can see he was very wary about that.
Benito - I understand you don't think the way I am doing things is correct or helpful. Can you make a suggestion as to what would be better in terms of validating well and setting a boundary where there is emotional abuse going on?
Hi,
At the end of the day you can pick and choose what advise you follow, because at the end of the day all of the tips you follow on here are sign posts in the right direction rather than i.e. you need to do this for success.
In my scenario - I kept all conversation and face to face contact to an absolute minimum. It was not lengthy and it was factual.
I didnt ignore things or act cold.. however i completley removed myself from the relationship from a mental point of view.
In all honesty I probably treated her like a work colleague.
This kept things emotion free, factual and what was best for me.
Alot of people are scared to do that because they fear it will push the other person away. However, in reality that NEEDS to happen. There needs to be a complete separation before any rebuilding or changes in mindset will occur.
I had 8 months of two or three text messages a week before she noticed a genuine change had occured and then was curious to start talking and dating and getting to know each other again. But as I said alot of people wont do that as they want to find a softer and less painful way of dealing with the situation they are in. But for me it is the only way.
I am 16 months on now from our recon; we are happier, both have better jobs, have a new house, bought a puppy and things are great. Nothing is perfect but a complete restart rekindled everything. But it was long haul and natural rather than forced through panic.
I am not saying I know the truth or some sort of oracle - however my wife and I have discussed this at length and the main reason she even considering recon - was the fact that she had time to breath - time to think... her interest in what I was up to grew.. and because I kept quiet and focused on myself.. it allowed her to wonder if she was making a mistake and it all build from there.
But without a shadow of a doubt - for me, emotional and mental separation is key to this process. Not cold and harsh but factual and with a mindset of - If this doesnt work i am fine regardless. Make peace with the worse case scenario and you are halfway there
Thanks Benito, I understand what you are saying and I am glad that it worked out for you. I am glad you and your wife are on better terms and finding your way back together!
My question is specifically about validating. How I can validate, according to DB advice, and how I can have a boundary where emotional abuse is concerned. I am still thinking about that and I think I am doing a little bit better. I don't initiate contact, but I want to know how best to respond to contact from H.
So for example - yes, I can treat him like a work colleague. But if a work colleague was sarcastic or belittling towards me, what would I do? I don't know, because I can't genuinely say it has happened. Would I validate that or just leave the room? I'd probably report it to HR but I guess that isn't applicable here!
Thanks Benito, I understand what you are saying and I am glad that it worked out for you. I am glad you and your wife are on better terms and finding your way back together!
My question is specifically about validating. How I can validate, according to DB advice, and how I can have a boundary where emotional abuse is concerned. I am still thinking about that and I think I am doing a little bit better. I don't initiate contact, but I want to know how best to respond to contact from H.
So for example - yes, I can treat him like a work colleague. But if a work colleague was sarcastic or belittling towards me, what would I do? I don't know, because I can't genuinely say it has happened. Would I validate that or just leave the room? I'd probably report it to HR but I guess that isn't applicable here!
What would you say or do if someone was treating or speaking to your daughter in the same way he does to you?
I have literally no idea. Honestly. I don't get this kind of treatment from anyone else in my life. It just doesn't happen. If you have a suggestion, I'd love to hear it.
I am following the suggestions for validating from the sticky and have given examples earlier in my thread. Yail suggested that I was not actually validating, but enabling emotional abuse. My question is about how to tell the difference, and feedback on how to respond to abuse, where a boundary is appropriate and not validation. I tried to set a boundary in response to his sarcasm last night and I've also outlined that earlier in this thread.
I suspect if I was detached more, I'd not care about his silly opinions about my parenting decisions or my personality or our past. I'd just shrug and laugh it off. I'm not there yet and whether I should be there or not is another matter - the fact is, I am just not. I can work on my behaviour even if my feelings don't follow - so I am asking for suggestions about actions I can take in these situations.
Maybe the line lies somewhere between the content of/feelings behind what he says and the way he says it? I’m thinking of a strategy I sometimes use with my 3 year old daughter when she’s behaving in a way I don’t like and I can tell she’s tired/hungry/upset about something. It sounds something like “Please don’t talk to me that way, it’s rude and it hurts my feelings. If you can’t stop doing that I’ll have you go in your room for a few minutes” then blah blah blah she reacts and I deal with it. Then I turn back to her and address whatever feelings I know she is dealing with. Obv slightly different for an adult, but the point being that maybe it’s not all so black and white, and in some instances there is room for setting the boundary as well as validating whatever may be valid...? I’m not sure I’m qualified to give advice on this topic, just a thought
I have literally no idea. Honestly. I don't get this kind of treatment from anyone else in my life.
Yes you do know.
You wouldn't put up with it.
You put up with this now because you have built a story/scenario around it that makes you accept it - but you know it isn't right.
Forget advise from other people - look at yourself.
You say -
Originally Posted by AlisonUK
I'm not there yet and whether I should be there or not is another matter - the fact is, I am just not
You are were ever you want to be. That statement is a get out clause, an excuse to stay in that middle ground where you arent doing much about it - but thinking about it enough to justify it to yourself.
People hate doing things they dont want to do.. i.e.. a run first thing in the morning sounds good on paper.. but when that alarm goes off at 5am its a different story. Similar story here - you know you would not put up with this from anyone else - so dont.
The reason you are is because your trying to make a relationship work rather than doing what is best for you and your self worth. Why would anyone put a relationship before their own self worth? because they are afraid.
You dont need this board - you need you. And you need to start acting on what you know is right rather than researching.
You come first.. and if a relationship follows then fantastic. If not.. the strength you gain from having some self respect and looking the pain and loneliness in the face is a strength that NOBODY else can replicate. The funny part is that when you do take that jump mentally... after a couple of months you wonder why you put up with all that sh*t in the first place
Thanks for trying, Benito. I'm grateful for you taking the time to share your experience and perspective.
The fact is, I'm not putting up with it. Short of preventing him seeing his children - which I would not do, and which would involves me being present for at least a two minute hand-over given the age of the Youngest - I am going to need to find a positive and healthy way to respond to him. That will involve working on myself, certainly. It will involve reducing unnecessary contact - absolutely. It will also involve learning to validate, as DB suggests, and also learning to set boundaries. I think when you say 'not putting up with it' you mean setting boundaries, but what I'm after is guidance in how to discern the difference between emotional abuse and feelings that need validating, and suggestions of how to do both. HOW to set boundaries. HOW to find the wording. I appreciate you attempting to help but right now I am after practical suggestions than your attempts to give a 2x4.
Thanks Hope. I understand what you're saying totally. There's a line, isn't there, between validating a feeling (he can feel whatever he likes - he's entitled to that) and accepting a behaviour. I can accept his frustration or anger and validate that, but I will not tolerate certain behaviours from him. I guess I don't really need to communicate my boundary to him. It might be something I don't need words for. I can demonstrate my boundary by refusing to continue conversations where he behaves in ways that are unacceptable to me.
Now I'm typing, I remember my IC going through this with me a couple of months ago. She recommended when he went off on one of his rants just saying quietly, 'you may be right, I'll consider it,' then getting out of there. There's no defensiveness, no argument, no placating or pacifying or attacking. It is a peaceful way of acknowledging what he's said and getting out of the conversation. And whether or not I do consider it later, in a calmer and more private moment, is up to me. And what he thinks of me in that moment - well, isn't my business and isn't as important as just getting away from the behaviour. I wish I hadn't forgotten it - I'll have to get it tattooed somewhere because I imagine it will come in useful to me.
I don't actually expect to see him or have much contact with him at all for a few days - perhaps the next week. I have much GAL planned though, which I am looking forward to.
