Not Sure Where This Is Going

[Niall11]

How am I doing at DB?

For a while I was reading threads voraciously. The last week or two I haven't had much time to do much more than transfer the "journal" I keep on my phone over here, which has some beneficial mental effect. But I've seen that people often give the advice, "Keep DBing," so I've been reflecting on how I'm doing at the basics...

GAL: C+. For a while it was difficult because we have a D2 and funds have been very tight. With W oblivious and going out a lot, I didn't want to do anything that would cost money and the weather here was dismal.

Now the weather is getting better and the money crunch is not quite so bad, so I feel like I have some more leeway. I have gone on more regular walks/hikes, gone to some interesting forums, spent time with friends, taken D2 to parks, spent a day at the beach, and last night went to a jazz concert with friends. I've tried my hand at painting. There's still a lot more that I can do.

180s: B. W said in the fall I'd been irritable and not doing enough around the house or with D2. I immediately set out to fix those things and generally have been successful. I'm a much more engaged dad, doing my share in the house, and I haven't been sweating the small stuff at all. I guess now I have much bigger stuff to sweat. She thought I talked too much. I don't anymore. She thought I tried to do everything for her and it made her feel like a little kid. I don't try to save her anymore.

W doesn't seem to care at all about my improvements, except that they allow her to go out more, but so be it.

I wasn't happy with my physical condition. I used to be (before W) extremely fit and after a perfect storm of 80-hour work weeks, stress, and injuries I had gotten out of shape. I'm 6'3" and I used to weigh about 195 pounds of lean muscle. I got up to maybe 260 with less muscle. Friends say I don't look obese, just like an offensive lineman or something, but I wasn't happy. Since this started last fall I've lost about 25 pounds (maybe half of what I wanted to lose) and fit into clothes that had been too tight. This has been with some exercise but mostly, I guess, the "divorce diet." So there's more I can do there but it's in the right direction.

The big problem I have had is that (long story) my career has not been where I want it to be. When W and I got together I was at the pinnacle of my profession. I lost a very high-stress, high-pay job in the depths of the recession and have been self-employed, with erratic revenues, ever since. Until very recently we've been getting by OK but it's really not good enough. I've spent a lot of time trying to fix this but it's not been easy and I'm very concerned for the future.

I believe 90% of our issues trace back to this. W grew up pretty poor, and was broke and unemployed when we got together. Lately I've been feeling like she just sees me as a walking ATM and it's not a coincidence that her attitude toward me has changed so dramatically exactly at the moment when, for the first time ever, a financial crunch required her to curb her lifestyle for a couple of months. It's a very complicated subject but, more and more, she feels like I'm letting the family down and I feel like I've been used.

Detachment: D. I'd give it an F but it's been better of late. "Detaching lovingly" in these circumstances is not something I take to naturally at all. I'd like to be connected and affectionate. Barring that, I have a hard time engaging at all or being friendly. We have a neighbor who can stab you in the back at noon then invite you over to organize a community cleanup an hour later. I'm not like that. People who hurt, trash, or disrespect me I'm not particularly interested in making nice with.

I've been really hurt and now angered by W's behavior these past few months, and it still stings. I was happy (not giddy but cautiously happy) when she quickly accepted an invite to go to a concert with our friends. I was saddened (but not as much as before) when she inevitably flaked on that commitment.

Last fall W said that, unlike me, she doesn't remember details well but never forgets how someone made her feel. She meant that, during a couple of our arguments, I'd said things she was having trouble getting past. I believe that she said far worse things to me during the same arguments. I especially believe there's no comparison between a single statement in the heat of an argument and treating your spouse with cold disdain for months and months. So I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure I can ever get past how she's made me feel, with full knowledge she's doing it, and unmoved to change course for eight months straight.

She's been sleeping in the living room for nearly a month and, although I think it's unnecessary and I'm saddened by it, I'm something close to resigned and definitely not asking her to come back to the MBR.

Her antics still get to me, but far less than before. I still wish I could repair our family, but far less than before.

Sandi's Rules: B-.Some I've had no problem with, at least the past 3-4 months. Others I still find difficult.

I have not been pursuing in any way. More like avoiding her altogether and trying to get out. No indication my moving away has made her feel like she's missing out or prompted her to come closer. She seems totally fine with having zero to do with me.

I'm not sure, because of money, etc., that I'm going to be OK. I'm extremely concerned for myself and my future relationship with D2. Very worried and unhappy lately and I'm not good at faking otherwise. I think the vibe I'm giving off is "pensive," not "confident" or "moving on." I have a lot on my mind these days.

I try to be polite and considerate in the little things, but I've not been warm to her lately. Right now I despise the person she's become.

Anyway, super-long but I wanted to get it out there.

[sandi2]

W doesn't seem to care at all about my improvements, except that they allow her to go out more, but so be it.

Exactly! You have tried to improve the things she complained about, but it won't change the heart of a WW. So, forget her complaints. Focus on how you want to improve yourself as a man. Leave her out of your self improvement project.

[Ready2Change]

I went to the concert (front row!) and had a great time!

Perfect. Glad to hear you went without her.

[Niall11]

Exactly! You have tried to improve the things she complained about, but it won't change the heart of a WW. So, forget her complaints. Focus on how you want to improve yourself as a man. Leave her out of your self improvement project.

At the time I started to change these things I didn't know she was gone to the point of wayward. She was just being distant. I found out about her infatuation with OW1 in late October but kept the changes up. At this point it's been over seven months and it has nothing to do with her.

[Niall11]

I went to the concert (front row!) and had a great time!

Perfect. Glad to hear you went without her.

No way I was missing this. I was excited to go and it would have been doubly rude to our friends. I didn't throw her under the bus but I didn't make excuses for her either.

[Niall11]

Educational weekend that, I believe, helped me realize how far gone my wife is.

This weekend was her new lesbian BFF's birthday. W was going to take our D2 to her potluck party on Saturday afternoon. D2 hadn't had a nap or lunch so I took her for a drive to get her to sleep and then to a playground, with the plan to drop her off at W's party after the playground. I decided I was having a great day with my D2 so I texted W that I would stay with her for the afternoon.

I had plans to go to a movie with my friend on Saturday evening. W, who was supposed to be home at 5, rolled in closer to 8 and asked, "What are you doing after the movie?" with a gleam that almost made me think she wanted to do something with me. No, silly. She wanted to know if I could hurry home from my night out so she could go out with lesbian BFF...again.

"I mean, if you're going to hang out with [friend] after that's totally fine, don't change your plans, but if...you...were...going... to...just...come...home, maaaaybe I'd still be able to go out."

Not a chance I was coming home early. Not a chance.

She said, "It's my friend's birthday. There's a lot of stuff planned." Give me a break. She went dancing with this woman Friday night, spent six hours at her birthday party on Saturday, was going to spend 4 more hours at a birthday brunch on Sunday, and they have a dance class together every Monday night. That's four straight days, plus they work in the same building.

In 10 years, she never made such a fuss over my birthday. Or her own, or anyone else's. I told her no way I would be home in time for her go out again, it was a long movie, we were seeing it in the city, it wouldn't get out until after midnight.

"Oh, OK, no that's totally fine."

Then she texted me SIX times during the movie. "Soooo....any chance you'll be back soon?" "Are you still in the movie?" "When is this movie ending?" Yes, I was still in the movie (saw texts when I got out) and did not respond. Strolled in around 1:30 and went to sleep.

Yesterday morning I did a community cleanup, took D2 to the park while W did her brunch with new BFF, and then I had to chair a meeting after. I lingered after the meeting, talking for a couple of hours with the people hosting, then walked home to put D2 to bed.

I knew before, but I don't think it hit me quite as clearly that she wants to be out with her new friends literally ALL THE TIME, has no concern for me as a person or my time, and precious little for being with our D2. She's like the teenagers she teaches.

[SteveLW]

"Not a chance I was coming home early. Not a chance. "

Question for you: is this the attitude of a person that is trying or NOT trying to control another person?

[Niall11]

Question for you: is this the attitude of a person that is trying or NOT trying to control another person?

Fair enough question, but I'm not trying to control her. I'm trying to establish some reasonable balance between her (apparently insatiable) desire to go out with her new friend/s and my desire to GAL myself.

I had plans, involving at a minimum a 40-minute round trip into town and a 3-hour movie. I am trying a Saturday night out with a friend and establish some boundaries. I don't see how it's appropriate to drop my plans for the evening and race home so that W could get together with her new BFF 5 times in 4 days instead of 4 times.

I'm a pretty reasonable and accommodating person but, that very day, she was supposed to take D2 to the party and I gave her the chance to go without having to worry about D2, who doesn't do well in large groups of strange people. I don't mind because I like spending time with my D2 and we had a fun day. Getting a nap and a long trip to the park was better for D2 than being an afterthought at some adult's birthday party.

I am hardly trying to block W from going out as a general matter. She's gone out with her new friends like 10 times in the past 14 days. I see no need, though, to alter my plans so she can eat even more cake.

[SteveLW]

nials, I agree you shouldn't have changed plans. But the implication here was that even if you didn't have post-movie plans that you would have stayed out just so she couldn't go back out.

WASs are like blood hounds. They can sniff this stuff out like a rabbit with a yeast infection. Trying to manipulate her into not doing things you don't like is not the removal of pressure. Further, do not be surprised if in the future she ends up getting a sitter or someone else to come stay with D2 just so she can still go out and do what she wants to do despite your plans. WWs especially have no boundaries. I know you think you were setting one, but trust me, the next time she will amp it up a level. WWs are a special breed. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING will stand in their way of doing and getting what they want. That is why we tell LBHs to clear the decks and let them do what they want because even if you tried you couldn't control them.

[sandi2]

People who hurt, trash, or disrespect me I'm not particularly interested in making nice with.

Oh, I hear you! Have you had to work with someone who would stab you in the back? If you are in public work, you are required to show professional conduct, but co-workers have a way of making your life miserable. Maybe that's similar to how you feel with your W in this current sitch. I certainly don't envy you.

For some women, when their H leave a good paying job to go into self employment (which often means they struggle the first few years), they can resent it. Depending on the woman and how supportive she was about the H's endeavor. I fail to see how this would cause her to suddenly want to be with other women sexually. However, rebellion is rebellion no matter the wrapping paper.

And, btw, in a previous post I suggested she could possibly be using her days out with D2 as an opportunity or excuse to be with OW. I didn't mean she was engaging in sex while her daughter was with her. Just wanted to clarify. I thought for a mother who wasn't happy about having to keep her child when she wanted to go out with her friends......she was suddenly making arrangements to be out all day with D2. Anyway, probably just my suspicious mind.

W doesn't seem to care at all about my improvements, except that they allow her to go out more, but so be it.

That seems to be the case with wayward W's. They are through with the MR, so they don't really care anymore if their H makes changes. She's done. That's why I try to tell LBH's to make changes for themselves. It's like when a person is overweight and the spouse begs him/her to lose weight. "If you won't do it for yourself, then do it for me", they cry. But it doesn't work that way. The overweight person has to do it for their self. Even if they lose weight trying to please their spouse, it won't stay off long before they will return to old eating habits.

Don't be too critical of your inability to detach yet. With all the emotions swirling around, it's got to be very challenging to lovingly detach. I'll be honest, if my H suddenly started searching out other men to have an A........I wouldn't lovingly detach. But then I probably wouldn't if he were out searching for women, either, b/c that's the difference between you guys with NGS and women who are potential or former WW's. You'll put up with it, and we won't. It's that simple. When my adult daughter busted me, one of the first things she said was, "You know you would not put up with it for one second if it was Daddy and another woman". She was right, and I knew it.......my family knew it.....my H knew it.....everyone who knows the two of us, knew it. It just ain't gonna happen!

So I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure I can ever get past how she's made me feel, with full knowledge she's doing it, and unmoved to change course for eight months straight.

Shock, hurt, anger......these are all normal feelings, considering what you've gone through. Sad to say that many times the WW will want to reconcile, but it's too late and her H has moved on and doesn't want to take a chance with her again.

I have not been pursuing in any way. More like avoiding her altogether and trying to get out.

There are times avoiding the toxic person might be better than having to endure more of their antics.......since you are actually getting out. After all, you have to think of your own mental health.

I'm not sure, because of money, etc., that I'm going to be OK. I'm extremely concerned for myself and my future relationship with D2. Very worried and unhappy lately and I'm not good at faking otherwise. I think the vibe I'm giving off is "pensive," not "confident" or "moving on." I have a lot on my mind these days.

I'm so sorry, Niall. You may have to find another job, if your business doesn't improve, but you will make it. You have a precious little girl that means everything to you, so I know you are going to make it. (((hugs)))