Welcome to the MLC Forum. I see that you have had some posters post yesterday/last evening. They all have given you great advice. I am posting Cadet's Welcome Posting below. Please read all of the homework and if you have questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D32,S3
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
From what I know it started in early December, right around the time I went through anxiety with myself. My anxiety lasted for only 2 weeks. I can remember my wife stating how desperate she was to have sex and if the medication was going to cause problems. I think her desperation was recognizing she was falling for this emotional affair person and that she didn't want to because of guilt.
The emotional affair was full out in middle of January. My wife was reading dark poetry about how she needs to choose her life, leave her current life and seek this new soulmate.
At the start of February I caught the emotional affair. I had both her and the alienator delete each others phone number. I ended it abruptly. My wife was very upset that I ended it, she told me that I played a POWER PARENTING card and that it should have been her to find closure.
My wife told the therapist how alive she felt during the affair.
My question is how much damage did I create by not letting the affair run its course. Why would I ever allow it to happen? I am her husband of 16 years, we had a very loving relationship, I was devastated. I read a letter she wrote him as closure, she said stuff that was ridiculous about our marriage and how she never fully loved me. She wrote about how in love she was with him. After 2 months of texting I couldn't believe the "limerence" that she fell into.
Anyways it has been almost 3 months, I feel like my wife has completely moved on from her emotion with the EA, but of course I am now dealing with the BD and fallout.
again the question is.
My question is how much damage did I create by not letting the affair run its course. Why would I ever allow it to happen?
Emotional affairs are more difficult to break than physical ones because they relate to each other more so "emotionally". Yes, you did play a power parenting card. You came across as the parent/authority figure and she definitely resented that move on your part. After all, you are not her father, but I do understand why you made the move.
Here's what I think we happen. She will continue her contact w/the other person secretly and will not disclose what she's doing to you. The more you try to end the affair, the more determine she will be to find ways around you and your actions to get what she wants.
Your wife was already moving into the area of the BD when you discovered the emotional affair. They usually have a trigger 18-24 months prior to the BD and they begin to slowly move into the crisis and once the crisis hits, there is nothing you can do to stop it. She will have to go through the entire crisis to get to the other side. Of course, you can attempt to snatch her out of the crisis, but she will return to it and it will be far worse the next time around.
You will need to step back, give her plenty of space and time to figure things out. Just remember, the more you attempt to get her to see the light, the more determined she will be to do the exact opposite. Right now, you are the authority figure to her child/teenage self.
Keep a close eye on your finances, i.e., checking/saving accounts and credit cards. You might even want to go as far as doing a credit history check.
Keep the focus on you as much as possible. Dig deeper for patience because this is not a sprint, but a very long, difficult marathon.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Last night was amazing, the happiest she has been in 3 months. She actually initiated conversations, was playful with the kids, it was so nice to see.
Then she came into my room while I was sleeping and accused me of being on her phone. She is so paranoid about it.
Yeah, sorry to break it to you, but it's likely that she was so "happy" because she's back on the high of the affair and that's also why she got so paranoid about you checking her phone.
I wouldn't break into her phone again but you might want to check the phone records if you can. If she's got 80 texts a day to or from the same number you'll know she's back in her affair and can make your decisions accordingly. (Some would say don't snoop because it interferes with your ability to present a positive face, which is true, but I also think knowledge is power and it's good to know what you're up against.)
She already abused the credit cards the last 3 years. She is serious debt, was spending kids account and I had no idea.
As far as affair, I have confronted the guy on multiple occasions and he insists it's over and was just stupid texting. I have also asked her but obviously I don't trust her answer. She tells me she's so exhausted emotionally from everything and is over it.
Please stop asking her about whether or not the affair is over or if they have been in contact. Please stop confronting the guy as well. The more you do this, the more you will drive the wedge between the two of you. The more you question them, the more that they will protect each other and yes, become more secretive. If it were not him that was involved w/her at that time, it would have been someone else. He is nothing special except that he may have listened to her tales of woe and provided the support and comfort that she craved. She may have been too afraid to discuss her feelings w/you at that time.
Paranoia is common during the crisis. What I am getting from your postings is that your wife is in replay and depression. She hasn't hit the deep, dark depression yet and if she goes into withdrawal, she will withdraw from all that she was interested in previously which includes you, the family, fun times, etc.
I agree w/kml, check the phone records and do not go into her phone again. You are not her father and you don't want her to look at you as one. You want to come across as a friend, someone who will listen and not judge her right now. I know you want to save your marriage and you love your wife, but you are pushing her away very quickly w/the way you are handling things. Step back, give her the space and time to work through her issues. You cannot fix her or make her see reason. You can't rationalize w/someone who is irrational right now. The crisis is an emotional time for these people and they will not think rationally when they are hurting within so badly.
Please, please stop questioning her about the affair. Do not give her any excuse to run back to the guy or some other guy. Make your home a safe place for her to land and want to be there at this time. No more relationship talks, listen to her, validate her feelings and when she does something right, compliment her on it.
Read the homework, read what others post on the forums and definitely read up on depression. Depression is the main ingredient of MLC. You did not break her, therefore, you can't fix her. She has to do that herself. One more thing, do not push her to go to therapy. She will go a couple of times and that will be it. She's not ready to face those demons within just yet. It will take lots of time, patience and more patience to get through this.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
With MLC there is a financial component to all this. The MLCer is avoiding their pain. Running behaviour can be all kinds of things. Drinking, drugs, exercise, younger risky activities all in an attempt to recapture their youth. My own W took up obsessive exercising and ride her bike as fast as possible and for rather unsafe lengths of treks.
Affairs are unfortunately very common. Very common - they mean nothing. Let it go. It has nothing to do with or about you - honest.
An other unfortunately all to common behaviour is spending. Most MLCers will spend money, usually far more than they should or can afford. The LBS needs to focus on themselves and their needs. That includes financial protection and security for you and your kids. Watch your accounts and the spending from joint credit cards, accounts, etc...
Also see a lawyer. This is just for information, you do not need to act on anything you learn. However, if things go south quickly you will know your rights, legal options, and what you are facing. Best to have an understanding of where you are before you need it. Do not tell W about your seeking legal advice, she will not understand or believe why you are talking to a lawyer.
Consider all the information you learn and the risks you face. If your particular situation is too great a risk or is already heading in a bad direction treat the financial part as a business deal that’s gone bad. Generally, the advice is let the MLCer do the heavy lifting regarding any separation and such; do not help and do not stand in their way. They own it, you do not want it anyhow, you aren’t to blame, and they usually are not very good at it so it gets slowed down anyhow.
Most MLCer become terrible parents. You need to step up and provide for them; that is not just financial (however you should consider your will along with everything else). You are the sane and stable parent. The rational one. The role model. Be better not bitter.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
She already abused the credit cards the last 3 years. She is serious debt, was spending kids account and I had no idea.
SHE is in serious debt? Are you sure it's not YOU are in serious debt? Debts incurred during the course of the marriage are usually joint - are you sure how your state views this? Just because the credit cards are in her name (if they are) doesn't mean you might not be liable for some of the debt in a divorce (she could claim, for instance, that the debts were run up buying things for the family etc.) You really DO need to consult an attorney, just to see where you stand and how to protect yourself financially.
This is what is known as "financial infidelity" and it can be just as damaging as the other kind. I'm surprised you didn't mention this in your first post. What are YOU doing to make sure this debt doesn't sink you too?
Has your wife been on any medication? Did she by any chance have gastric bypass surgery? Just a heads up that addictive behaviors can be triggered by some medical conditions, as well as depression.
She sounds like a classic MLC setup - mom's near-death experience, she hits 40 - perfect for wondering "is this all there is?" and looking for outside things to relieve her depression (like shopping and affairs).
Her sister told me it was $15000 in credit card debt. As far as I know she is trying to take responsibility for it. She went to the bank, my guess to get a loan to consolidate. She admitted to me about spending too much but tried to excuse it with lack of funds.
I know my post makes things seem terrible but some things have improved.
99% certain affair is over She has stopped drinking excessively She is seeing a dr and therapist She recognizes the $ issue and is paying me each month for some bills She recognizes that she is going through a transition She recognizes she has internal issues that need resolving She is reading books on self help and menopause She treats me with kindness but we rarely interact/speak now which hurts She is trying to reconnect with her sister and mother She has put away the dark poetry books Her last book had nothing to do with relationships where the previous ones were all about passion and soulmates and choosing your own life
I personally have done my best to back off and give her space, I try to follow Sandi rules In the last 3 months since BD we have had 3-4 relationship talks which of course shucked. The last one was 2 weeks ago, I've been going hard with Sandi rules and plan to do this moving forward. I WILL NOT ENGAGE. I am working out like crazy and am in best shape of life. I spend all my energy on my kids since she has withdrawn mostly I no longer have anxious depressed movements, it's almost like I'm numb to it
The hardest thing to not think about is we were a couple that hugged, said I love you, sex etc. In January. Now it's completely gone, vanished in an instant at least for me. She will say that she was just trying to keep things going. Of course that hurt.
Glad to see you're doing well for yourself physically.
I continue to caution you. My W acted similarly:
Quit smoking (which she only did for a few months), saw a therapist, recognized she was depressed, recognized she wasn't herself and needed help, read books on self help, was kind to me, reconnected with children and her mom. I thought for sure she was coming out of it. We were 1 day from withdrawing our divorce from the court. I was certain affair was over, then on her birthday she starts to reconnect with OM on a deeper level.
THEN, she used health insurance to get tubal ligation, which she never wanted before, accrued almost 20k more in cc debt, had a burner phone to continue affair, did not look for work while claiming to go out on interviews (guess where she was going), likely started to use drugs, used me for extravagant vacation (while texting OM as I slept next to her).....then came BD 2.
A few private investigator reports turned up things I never though capable by her--all involving OM as well. THEN came a catastrophic downfall involving burning bridges with everyone who loves her--friends, parents, siblings, children, etc...I am not sure she has even reached rock bottom yet. This is all 8 months post BD1.
Please, please keep your guard up.There may be a few brief times of clarity and then BOOM--right back into the tunnel. When MLC is over, you will see long term consistency and she may not even recall some of the things she did or was thinking. The situation is very likely still on thin ice. Protect yourself. I would advise checking credit reports as well.
