I saw that you were in the process of emailing that FS-style letter and got pretty good advice from everyone about it. I had my own opinions and decided to wait to comment(I really didn't want to influence you into doing something you were not ready to do as in confronting your H in person, although I think it was the better thing to do). Seeing as you had the discussion, I want you to know I am happy for you to have set your boundaries in person rather than email. I think many here are/were weak at setting boundaries, which plays its part in this downward spiral we're in. There are some posts from some of the vets around here about that, when to say things in person opposed to texts or emails. We need to be aware of how we come across and our stance. Does this help or hurt, right? It's about respect. Short, concise, in person, and keep it going. You told him, he blah blah blah'd and you took action to disable the camera and then will be changing the lock. I respect that and although he won't like it, he'll respect that. You are not hiding behind a perfectly crafted piece of writing he may or may not respond to well. As others mentioned, people who are uninterested will not appreciate the time and energy spent in considering their feelings in a letter. I guess pending on the person, no matter how well written something is, they'll still find fault in it.
I was also going to say next time he yells at you, you kick him out your house, but I mean to say I hope in time you find the courage to stand up for yourself and drop the fear if/when he does decide to think its right to yell at you.
I know what you mean about the fear. I read a comment from AS to someone else about being careful of what we say to the WAS because they can use that against us. It's like being the one to file for D, allowing the WAS to say they wanted to try and work it out but we didn't want to so filed. In my sitch, you may have recently seen how my W is twisting my words against me, saying because I am moving on its too bad because she now wants to work it out. I let it go at first. Then I made a comment to try and stop that bleeding. I called her bluff, told her I didn't think it was right for her to keep saying that to my face when everything else suggested otherwise. Thing is, the help will be for her... not me. Anyways, this isn't about me but just saying I can relate. W can say I was the one who pushed her away, she is a cheater and liar so what else is new right? She has most likely told people many things about me untrue so what is 1 more lie? Don't sweat it, don't fall for it.
And FS, the thing about OW... you say what kind of woman would spend 25% time with a man? My W stays home almost 90% of the time. She seldomly goes out with other people from work with the off chance this could be OM. Her time to be with OM is at work, juggling that when she works with now 3 relatives, one being an older brother of hers. So she is dealing with a man who is spending less time with her and giving up her family life for that. Does any of this matter though? No. You mentioned to me that I have to be certain there is no longer OM. Between W and I, I think we are far from there. You said you would be spinning if there was a relationship and you opted not to think about it. As much as I want to say we should be doing the same thing regardless of what they are doing, I know this isn't always the case. We are still reactionary. Like those with a very overt cheating Spouse are the ones who detach faster and in full force, this is in itself reactionary. Even being soft and allowing things to happen because we aren't fully exposed to how bad things are with their dealings, its reactionary. I guess maybe I should say a natural response.
You're moving on, don't be afraid to show your H that.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
I am pretty proud of me. I think the reason he didn't rage is because he knows he is in the wrong and there was no trying to defend his position. He had that look on his face, like the one I get when I know I've been slacking off at work and someone pulls me up on it. I know i've been taking the pee, I was just hanging in there waiting for someone to finally tell me to pull my [censored] together.
He might have read the email (which I still intend to send once the school holidays are done). He will stew quietly in his flat thinking about all the reasons why he has a right to be here. At first he will only read the bits saying he can't be in the house anymore, but unconsciously he will read all of it and it will sink in. Then he will calm down and just quietly do as I've asked. He will start spending time with the children away from the house. He will stop popping by to walk our dog. What he won't do is acknowledge reading the email. He has not mentioned the camera is disabled even though he would have got an email from the provider telling him it was removed from his account.
I definitely feel the winds of change coming in. We have been communicating - not flirty, but more than just logistics. We talk about people we both know, work, the news. Today we exchanged about a dozen texts with light banter in them. I had asked him to look at flights for me and the girls to Mexico. They came out unaffordable so he suggested Ibiza. When I said I was planning on going there with friends when he took the kids away (normally this would result in him having a go at me for "being selfish") he simply replied "Ha ha. The girls and I might run into you as thats where I'm thinking of taking them".
I don't know if it's because I am in a better place, or because my being in a better place takes the pressure off him so he doesn't feel the need to be so guarded and defensive around me, but whatever it is, it is definitely better. I even felt comfortable enough tonight to ask him if I could meet him and the girls for brunch tomorrow (he has them tonight and tomorrow day). He just went sure.
As an aside I caught him looking at my breasts today, I know, TMI, but it was kind of weirdly uncomfortable. I saw him looking, he saw me see him. I pretended not to notice and put one hand over my chest and rearranged my scarf with the other. I am not reading anything into it. I had a low cut top and he is a man. Just funny really. He hasn't looked at me like I'm a person for the longest time. He has always been afraid to look at me in case "it gives me hope".
I don't want to think about OW too much but when I say that he simply does not have time, he simply does not have time. He is a pilot so he is away about 3 - 4 days/nights per week anyway. I know this, I lived with him for 15 years. On any given week, he is either away or he has the children. On the nights he isn't working or doesn't have the kids he is here until 8 in the evening and then back here at 8 the next morning. He might have the odd night where he isn't working or doesn't have the kids, but that's once every two weeks. There is not a lot of room in there for anOW. He has started taking a weeks unpaid every 2 months. On those weeks he has the kids about 4-7 nights. It is crazy how much he wants to have the children with him.
Your W is panicking. The realisation of what she has done is hitting her and (like us at BD) she is trying to hold on. I don't know if you want her back or not. You probably don't know if you want her back or not. I would wait it out, continue building my life and just see if her feelings are genuine through consistent behaviors over a period of time before I would be willing to get back on the crazy train. Are your interactions still weighted, and by weighted, I mean are you both careful what you say, do you read things into each other's gestures etc or are you able to talk naturally with one another now.
I’ve been experiencing a lot of that kind of chat too. Not flirty, but friendly, about all different kinds of things and people we know, etc. In my thread you had asked me about what I felt were mixed signals I was getting, and this falls into that category for me. It feels so good and comfortable, and made me hopeful. What is your read on what it may be or mean from your H?
He is coming out of the fog and seeing me as a person again. Not the cause of all his misery, not the person he has to 'hide' everything from (there's an interesting comment from AS on how WAW's feel they have to keep everything from us even when there isn't anything to keep secret), not just the babysitter, dogsitter and payer of the mortgage, but as a person. A person with opinions and ideas worthy of having a grown up conversation with.
The other is I am in a much better place than I have been for a long time. I am happy. Instead of looking at the things I've I look at the things I have gained. Time was always a premium for me - I never had enough of it. Now, I have more than I know what to do with and I was always exhausted and anxious. As a result of having more time. I am doing brilliantly at work, I enjoy my time with my children and I have lots of opportunities to GAL. I also get to sleep in the middle of the bed !!!
In any case ... I am detached enough to know I am no longer at the mercy of his emotions/reactions/words. I can ask him "how was your night" without worrying if he thinks I am prying or worried about his response. I've taken the pressure of myself which means the pressure is off of him too.
My H and I are slowly learning to be friends again. It may not be the road to R. I have no expectations and will carry on with my self improvements regardless.
that all makes a lot of sense to me, and I relate to all of it. My H has def not always been friendly. In the beginning he was cold, distant, sometimes mean, angry and extremely secretive. What you said about the WAS keeping things secret that weren’t secret worthy, that was him for sure. I totally relate to what you say about your H’s fog Lifting and him seeing you as a person. I think once my H finally recovered from being angry and bitter at me, he was able to remember that he did in fact enjoy talking to me. I saw as a sign that he was coming around to reconciliation for awhile, now I see that it may be that to some degree, and may be other things. I told my therapist that I suppose he really does want to be friends with me. She said, he doesn’t want to be friends—you are family to him. He just doesn’t feel he wants to be married to me. As you say, it’s an improvement, regardless. I am really trying to internalize what you say about detaching and having no expectations. That has been a lifelong struggle for me, and now is the time of ever there was one.
FS...so glad you set your boundaries and your H paid attention. Also glad you did it in person instead of email. I have sent exactly one email to my STBXH and that was very early on. Mostly because my thoughts and feelings were changing so rapidly that if I wrote anything to him, I knew that I would likely feel differently a week or two later. My sitch is different than yours though as he is living with his affair and buying a house, etc... I remember when he was texting me back in September about wanting to come home and do the right thing but fearing he had dug himself a hole so deep that he couldn’t get out of it. I did not know at the time that he was referring to the second life he had been building with her... I understand it better now. Anyway...my sitch was always going to end this way...yours, I have consistently maintained, has a chance to end differently...hopefully with you back together...in a better R than you had before. It will take time though...and more setting of boundaries cause I really think your H won’t come back unless he truly believes he might lose you. In the meantime, it seems like the new normal is working for you in some ways and maybe that will make it easier to stand for the time you will need. Whatever you decide to do now and in the future, I am, as always, rooting for you and hoping you end up living the life you want and, more importantly, deserve. Lots of love and ((((HUGS)))
Hope - not sure it's a sign that we are on our way to R. Just a thawing and a possibility that he is coming out of the fog. I suspect he made a lot of 'bad' decisions (and I realise that's a judgement call) whilst he was in the fog and he has to be willing to own those decisions before he will have the humility to come back. It is in his nature to externalise blame, so the chances of him facing those decisions and then forgiving himself are quite slim.
DV - I remember a letter you sent him, ending with "this is me, letting you go". I remember the sadness in it and an utter sense of defeat. Now your happiness resonates with every word you type. I don't think you've written about your H for the longest time. Look how far you've come !!!.
The new normal is a better place than the old normal ... I am taking back control (in small ways) of my life. One step in front of the other until I have the strength and willingness to run, right?
Urghhh I just finished writing an update and my laptop froze !!!
Quick version - Day 3 of FS's Take Back Control Initiative
{Day 2 was missed because not a lot happened - went to work, came home saw the kids for 20 mins before they went to H's flat}
1. I asked him this morning if i could them (the kids and him) for brunch. He had the kids all day and I was working from home. I normally don't ask to join them because, well I fear rejection and I don't want him to think I am intruding on his time. But I am done wondering how my actions make him feel. Today I just asked. Didn't think about it at all before hand. He said yes straight away (not the reluctant yes I used to get, or the "I'm not sure what i'm doing with them yet"). He also didn't get mad when I was 15 mins late (I text him to let him know and even sent him my order) and he offered to pay for me when the bill came.
Wonders never cease.
2. I told him calmly that this might be his house, but it is not his home. His brother was here picking something up and they were both outside talking. After a while he called me outside and said he wants to use the money we set aside to do the garden before he MO to pay his brother to redo the decking in the back garden. His brother can do it in one day and they will use cheap materials. I told him "I will think about it. I have to live here and don't want to do it cheaply just because it's convenient". There was some back and forth and I finally said the "I have to live here, it might be your house but it is not your home". He had a stupid smile on his face and said loudly "THIS is still MY home". I walked away.
I then went back to smiley happy FS.
He retaliated later by a) going to the shops and buying and cooking three steaks (one for him, one for D9 and one for D12) and b) saying (when D9 asked him when he was going to prepare the play house for painting) that "It's not my job" even though he had previously promised them he would do it.
[censored] child.
About 30 mins later he was out the back with D9 preparing the play house for painting.
PS - I ignored the lack of dinner and made myself a Caesar salad (with eggs, avocado and chicken) and then proceeded it eat it with them whilst they had their steaks.
You're a better woman than I am, FS. That kind of passive-aggressive, petty communication and little domestic punishments drives me mad - I lived with that kind of nonsense for years and even reading about it in your situation boils me. I'd love to get to the point of non-reaction that you're at.
That is so obnoxious, childish and frustrating. Also very interesting. I could handle most of it but the retaliatory stuff is too much. Sounds like he was being quite provocative, so good job resisting. It makes me wanna say, define a HOME buddy, because once you’ve moved out of a place...ugh. And also, if you want this to be your home you are still (for the moment) invited to stop doing all THIS and move home with your family. Ok sorry, I’m projecting.
My H has had several times where he will be doing or fixing something around the (my) house and then eventually it becomes nagging or complaining about something I’m not doing or that he doesn’t like. Early on Id get pulled in. It’s SUPER irritating but now I just ignore it (mostly).
