You've got a lot going on FS. I've read the last several posts to catch up. I admire how you handle the interactions with H, and find it fascinating he seems to spend a lot of time at the house but wants to reconfirm he "isn't coming back". Sounds like he is very conflicted. Reading your sitch makes me wonder if I have it in me for the marathon. I think I do, but with all I know about H now, not so sure I would ever in a million years be able to trust him again. Only time will tell.
Yail - it was on both of our insistence. She has been missing a lot of school (tummy aches, headaches) and for some time has been silent and withdrawn. When this happened last year, my H didn't want to hear about it. But even he can now see there are problems, although not yet willing to accept his part in those problems. One of the reasons I am keen on her seeing a counsellor is she has no outlet for her emotions. She doesn't journal and she doesn't talk to her friends about us separating. It has been over a year and she has only told one friend and that was fairly recently. She didn't tell her friend how she felt about it, just told her matter of factly (the friend told her mum who told me). She has a strong sense of what a family is (she gets that from her dad) and him moving out shattered that. She is grieving and doesn't know how to deal with it. I forget that I am not the only one whose heart was broken.
Alison - I am methodical because I am writing. Writing helps me to process and makes me look at the reasons as opposed to the actions. Also, because it comes out structured and rational, doesn't mean I am not a hot mess on the inside. There are times when it takes every fiber of self control not to scream "just [censored] off", or to fall in a heap at his feet and beg him to come back. I am the girl who goes into the toilet, cries silently in front of the mirror, wipes away the tears and walks out like nothing happened. But I am getting better. Things that use to throw me in a spin no longer do. Journaling helps with that - it forces you to look at the why, not just he did this, and then I did that blah blah blah.
The anger is mostly because he has not done the work. He was depressed when he left and thought leaving would resolve that. It hasn't brought him the happiness he sought (which is why he is always here and always with the firls) because the unhappiness is internal. Also, much like our house, he still feels some 'ownership' over me, and the more I take control, the more 'angry' he becomes. He can't deal with this (because he left and he knows I can now do wtf I like) so he finds other things to be angry about (the lost football shorts, my not cleaning the bird poo of my car fast enough, not picking up the dog poo etc) or punish me (taking the dog away, saying "I'm NOT driving you to the station anymore").
Grace - I've been following a long with you too. Trust is a weird thing. When I caught my H out on a date I thought I would never forgive him and even if he wanted to come back, I could never trust him again. After thinking about (and again, mine was not the only heart broken when we split up) he was lonely, sad and thinking dating would take the pain away - dating should be what he is doing because that's what people do when they separate. I have thought the same a thousand times. Join a dating site, see what the world has to offer, your marriage is over. But, it wouldn't suit me. And it doesn't suit him. I am not saying my H and your H are the same. Only you know your H and his motivations and only you know what you will put up with.
Having said all that, in all honesty, I don't know if I could trust him ever again. Not with the seeing other people. He is not and has never been a 'player'. But I don't know if I could trust him not to hurt me again. I guess I will cross that bridge when I get to it.
Hi FS. Just getting caught up on our sitch. So glad you got a counsellor for D12. Even though a counsellor can’t “fix” what is ailing her, sometimes having a neutral person to talk to is all a kid needs. I have one kid who I see every week who doesn’t really have much in the way of mental health problems but she comes from a family that always seems in turmoil for one reason or another. When she comes in, she reports to me how her week went and if something is bothering her, she tells me about it and I help her put it into perspective and problem solve. If you had asked me, I would have said that I really don’t do a whole lot with her. However, her mom (who has a reputation for being difficult) left me a message on my voicemail telling me that her appointment with me is the highlight of her week and when she comes home after talking to me, it is like 100 pounds has been lifted off her shoulders. Hopefully it will do the same thing for your daughter.
Reading your account of your interactions with your H is kinda hard to read sometimes FS. I’m not sure what is going to shake your H out of his inertia. I really feel like that as long as you keep doing what you are doing, he is just going to keep doing what he is doing. I know that you are standing and I really admire your resolve in a lot of ways. And...I also know that we only read what you choose to tell us so our picture may not be accurate. I have to say it though... you deserve sooooo much better... you really do. You deserve to have some happiness in your life and to be with someone who appreciates all of your great qualities. Is that your H? It’ s not right now...was he that way before? IDK how you do it, TBH... living in limbo. I know you are awesome at GAL activities and have found some level of happiness in your day-to-day life but your H just seems to be ever present and keeping you from really investing in this new life of yours. What do you think would happen if you truly let him go or enforced some boundaries... i.e. a legal separation agreement, pushing the house sale, etc... something that tells him you are truly moving on...with or without him. Would it break his inertia?
IDK about dating and seeing what is out there wouldn’t suit you. I think it would if you truly made the decision to do it. But it definitely wouldn’t if you weren’t sure it was something you wanted to do. I know it has made a HUGE difference for me. Not because I found a “replacement” for my H or because I’ve fallen “in love”... I haven’t done either of those things... but because it has reminded me that there are a lot of great people out there and that I am someone who deserves to have someone great in my life... and I deserved better than what my STBXH was willing or able to give...for whatever reason. When someone treats you poorly and emotionally abandons you instead of trying to work it out with you, do the reasons even really matter? Anyway...I know that I will eventually find that person and I am hopeful that, given what I know now, I will not repeat the mistakes that I did with my STBXH. I will listen to my gut...I will not sacrifice my conscience for my heart or vice versa. I know your path is not necessarily the same as me FS but I do need to tell you that I think tif you decide to test the waters and meet other guys (and you get to decide who and how and when), It will help you move forward...not necessarily move on... but move forward towards whatever life has in store for you.
FS - your H's anger reminds me a lot of mine, back when we lived together. I don't have that so much any more, but I don't know if that's because he's got past it (unlikely - it's only been four months and he hasn't done any IC or much self reflection as far as I am aware) or just because we're not ever in the circumstances where he's displeased by how I've stacked the dishwasher or how clean the kids' rooms were, etc. I asked him - many times - what the real issue was underneath all the criticism and nit-picking, and it was always some version of my fault - but in the end I think he was angry because he didn't feel like he mattered. Now, the man had a point and there were lots of things I could have and should have done, and that I want to do, to help him know that he matters to me. But I also need to promise myself I will never live with the daily drip drip drip of his anger and criticism ever again. It was unbearably toxic. I'm still on red-alert when it comes to his anger (as you've noticed in my thread) and I suppose my own experience is why I pick up on your H's anger so easily. My IC said that under anger is almost always blame, and blame is a way of making sure that the other person has to change and you can carry on doing exactly what you were doing.
I wonder if more boundaries are needed. If he's left and he's decided he isn't coming back, then perhaps he needs to be in the house less, and he's responsible for taking care of the girls at his own place, or taking them out. It sounds like he has the best of both worlds at the moment. If you considered the marriage over, how would your day to day life and interactions be different?
I will just caveat with what I am about to say with the fact that I brought up 3 boys. I had to teach them not to belch and break wind in public, wash their rugby kit and throw soap at them every now and again!
All that being said, I was a girl once. Kids thrive with defined boundaries and consistency. Separation of parents is going to be traumatic to the vast majority of kids. I also believe that kids have got the greatest ability to heal within a defined safe place.
Your domestic situation is complicated and I wonder if your D is struggling to understand what it actually is. No doubt she will have spoken to other kids about separation and divorced parents, but then she looks at yours and it doesn't fit into the same pattern.
I'd wager that very few 'separated couples' have a limbo quite like yours. But does that limbo also put kids in limbo from starting their healing process too? Someone will know better than me, and you are getting the right help for her. Perhaps when the IC says the separation is hurting her, it may be the uncertainty and lack of definition that is also confusing her. FS, you are a superb intelligent parent and you will figure it out.
Now, as for H. We could put forward a few suggestions based on his statement that he isn't coming home:
He's a coward that can't state his intentions He's such a nice guy that he wants to let you down gently He's being the ultimate control freak He's keeping the peace, keeping you dangling until something better comes along He's waiting for you to stop all your bad behaviour and then he'll work on his He'll change his mind and hope that you don't notice he hasn't done any work on himself He never meant it at all etc etc
or all of the above.
There is no point in any of us trying to mind read. It is what it is in HIS head. He hasn't shown much inclination to work on anything. So no, don't judge him on what he says, but what are his actions telling you? I think he's sitting as happy as Larry. He doesn't want to live with you and so he doesn't. He wants to see his family whenever it suits, and he does. If he wants to mow the lawn and walk the dog, he will. He wants all the perks AND the freedom of not being married.
My grandfather used to have a saying and it applies to your H "either pi** or get off the pot"
I fully admire you FS if this is what you want and have decided to stand for as long as it takes. You are a GAL guru, a strong minded intelligent career woman. But you are frightened of something I think. I agree with DV6, you deserve so much more than this.
I get it. I still catch myself worrying about doing something that will gain disapproval from H. And I definitely don't want the f***wit back. So then I tell myself, so what if it angers him, not my problem anymore, I'll do what's right for me and only me. I guess it was a learned habit after 30 years together and it did influence my decision making skills.
Perhaps there is an opportunity for you both to 'get off the pot' You could still stand and have some more defined boundaries. You need some distance I think. You mention about ' the more I take control' Perhaps you now need to have FULL control of you.
I so wish I had found your thread sooner—our situations have a lot of similarities! I’ve been reading, trying to catch up on yours as quickly as I can, haha. You are being super strong. My H moved out May 2018. We have a 3 year old daughter, and we have been in limbo all this time. Similarly, he comes here to see our daughter several times a week and does things around the house, has a laugh with me, tells me about work, etc. But says he isn’t coming back.
Just in the last couple weeks he has started talking about moving forward with divorce, and it’s been devastating. I’ve been so patient and done so much work in IC. Anyway, I’ve recently been wondering (with a pit in my stomach) if things might be different at this point if I’d taken detaching and distancing a step or two further. Maybe I should have made him feel he was actually losing me/us sooner?? I don’t know if it would have helped, and I’ll be trying it now regardless. But thought I’d share the thought with you in case...
DV - D12 has taken this really hard. But like her parents, she bottles it all up and pretends everything is OK, whether because she doesn't want to upset us, or because she has learned that stoic is the way to deal with things. In any case, having a safe environment to talk will hopefully allow her to work through some of her emotions. As an aside, that is what this community is to me, a safe environment to work through things. I suspect if I had not found it, I would have gone off the rails.
My entries are hard to read because it is the same thing over and over. For someone who feels deeply the way you do, who has come to care about me, well, you see me get knocked down, get back up, put the pieces together, only to be knocked down again ... well, you just want an end to the pain I am going through. I understand and I know. I feel the same reading other sitchs here.
I know dating would throw my H in a spin, but I don't know if it would jolt him into coming back. I suspect he would retaliate. He would rather burn it all down than lose. His response to my going out for a quick drink after work (on a night he had the girls) ... "I am going to look at alternative housing arrangements for [our dog]". In any case, I know I am not ready, and dating someone to make my H jealous is not something I feel is right. Dating was right for you. You were ready. You were not doing it to get a rise out of your STBXH but as part of project 'get my life back'.
In the same way reading my entries are hard for you, reading your entries are the highlight of my morning commute.
Alison - I think you re right - the time has come for boundaries. Like I said above, my H will retaliate and I need to come up with a way that minimizes that retaliation. I am thinking of writing an email (which I'll post here) around limiting access to the house. This I think does three things: allow me to take control of my environment, be less confusing for the children (and that's to DV's point above re D12 being confused about our status) and may make him realise that he is losing me. It limits his cake eating. It will need to be balanced, with lots of validation, and co-parenting statements so he doesn't feel under attack and focuses on the children - so it may take a while to construct.
Yorkie - I have not mind read too much (I think). It is impossible not to go there ... but I pull myself back. There has been a shift in my attitude in the last few weeks. I've finally got the balance between cold detached and just detached (I know, it's about f**g time). I can talk to him without worrying about what I am saying. I am even asking him questions about his life without us. Nothing intrusive. "How has you're weekend been?" - a normal question I would ask any work colleague on any Monday morning, but was too scared to ask my H six months ago for fear he thought I was prying. Funny, you use the quote from your grandfather. I was thinking the same thing yesterday - when I was composing the 'boundaries' email in my head.
I am still standing. I am trying to work out how to stand and still set boundaries. I am getting there I think.
BTW - your H was a f**wit. I think you had unconsciously stood down before you joined the forum - you just needed to know it rather than feel it.
Hope - I will catch up on your sitch today. Limbo [censored]. There is no two ways about it. But, if you change your mindset, it can also be time and space to heal. For now, find the small joys where you can. Find your voice again and learn to laugh again. This is what I did and still do.
Neff - thank you. I am so grateful for my girls. It has been tough for them but I think my H and I have guided them through as best we can. I think both of us have learned the importance of being present when we have them, because we both miss them so much when we don't. That is something, right?.
Expectations went out the window a long time ago. It is the small unexpected things that keep drawing me back. [Censored] men.
Thank you all for reading and piping in. I know I've been pretty rubbish lately with helping on your sitchs. Offering support on other threads has always helped calm me down so I will try and catch up on some of them today.
Boundaries are the most difficult thing - being able to act in your own and your children's best interests without the fear of anger or retaliation - which is a very justified fear in your case - is really really hard. I don't think I am anywhere near it myself, and I need to get there for my own development and for a good MR if that ever happens for me. Perhaps the session with the counsellor where he could see and hear that DD was really struggling with the separation and the limbo, and his own statement that he was never coming back - means that it is the right time for you to have private space in your home and he will be, perhaps, more receptive to it? He probably is going to be angry and retaliate, but if he really is losing you, then it is time for you not to care about that, and instead to care about the safe space you need to make for yourself and your children. Easier said than done, I know.
Alison - I think you're right. Maintaining that balance of keeping the candle in the window and not being a doormat is a difficult one. I came here largely because I read the lighthouse story in one of the threads - my retelling of it would not do the author justice, but it read to me as needing to be their lighthouse whilst they are out there navigate the storms of their own emotions. I felt then, as I do now, that he was lost and the best thing I could do was stand still, a kind of safe house, whilst he worked his [censored] out.
Right now, it feels more like doormat than lighthouse ...
I think we both not that he will not be receptive to being denied access to 'his house'. I have spent most of the day drafting and redrafting the email to him. I think email would be best - that way, I am not within yelling distance, and I can avoid his initial reaction (anger), quickly followed by reasons why I am in the wrong, and finally (hopefully), once he has had time to process it, a little bit of objectivity.
Quick question - I have just discovered that he has taken marriage certificate and our wedding videos. They were in a plastic shopping bag at the bottom of my closet. I know we need them (to prove we are married) in order to put the divorce papers through, but as I would not stand in the way of a divorce, I can't see why he took them. And he does not have a video player (who has one of those anymore?). I am not that bothered that he took them, it bothers me more that he was in my bedroom, snooping around my closet !!!
