This is the worst

[SteveLW]

Ovr, that's great for a court of law. However, her perception is her reality. We can argue semantics until we are blue in the face, but we, he, or a dictionary can't tell her how to think and feel about this.

Kettle trying to convince her she is wrong about this likely will not get you closer to your goal of reconciliation. Keep your 180. And give it time. Eventually the rawness if this will fade.

[kettle6]

Still in the dog house. I'm afraid that this is going to be the new 'norm'. Not touching, walking on eggshells. Trying not to be alone in the house so she doesn't think I'm 'up to something'. This is exhausting.

[Ready2Change]

Hi kettle,

I would suggest taking it slow, but showing her that you understand how she feels and that you care about her. Don't do anything major and don't bring up the problem again. Just listen to her, acknowledge what she is saying. Don't argue. Don't apologize again since you already did. Don't justify what you did. Don't ask her for anything at this point. Certainly, don't blame her for anything.

Kiro is wise. This is what you do.

[Ready2Change]

I agree that you most likely need different advise than most here.

Not touching

If this is her boundary. Respect it.

walking on eggshells.

Do not let fear control you. There are solutions to this. No more walking on eggshells. This is no way to live.

Trying not to be alone in the house so she doesn't think I'm 'up to something'.

Do not worry about what she thinks. Be home alone.

This is exhausting.

I am sure it is.

I think you two need to talk this one out like adults.

Yes. You need to learn to be communication expert. There are good ways and bad ways to communicate. Since we can't "advise" your wife, the burden is on you.


Read the boundaries thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096


Look over this book list and pick up a couple that sound like they would help you:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094

[Ready2Change]

This is the best way I found for a sincere apology, learn this pattern
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2843321#Post2843321

IF SHE BRINGS IT UP AGAIN
Do not apologize for watching porn. Do not apologize for your self gratification activities. Apologize for hurting her feelings.

H"I am sorry I hurt your feelings. I do not want to hurt you."

[Ready2Change]

She still thinks Ive committed adultery and shes still upset. I'm sick of this. Its hard to keep my composure and let her rage at me telling me that im no longer trustworthy. I try not to have any reaction. I try to agree that i see her point of view now, but she still wont to hear it.

Your job as the H is the understand her. Your job is to let her release her emotions WITHOUT you feeding them back to her or amplifying them..

This line goes a long ways:
H "I am sorry you feel that"

You can say this:
"I see you are still angry" and she may get more agnry. Listen and validate.

She will bang on the walls so that ' i know shes entering the room' , she doesn't want to 'catch me in the act'.

You need to address this somehow.

I will keep this PG, but you should be able to figure out what I am talking about.

H"W: I am thirsty and I need a drink of water. I would prefer to drink water with you, but if you don't want to, I understand and I will drink my water alone in my room"


Typically men are aroused by the visual and woman are turn on by words. Men are like microwaves and women are like crock pots. As the man, your job is make your wife thirsty and then give her all water she needs. Then you can drink.

[kettle6]

More drama. Im almost ready to just leave, but I know she cant survive financially or healthwise( she has stage 4 cancer) without me. She only hears ,sees what she wants to. She asked me why didnt i tell her about the porn 18 years ago when we met. She said If she had know she wouldnt have married me. Now she feels stuck with me. I sometimes feel the same way, im stuck with her. Was I just supposed to come out of the blue and discuss porn with her?

I knew I was in trouble when we didnt even have sex the night of our wedding. I have no where else to go and i would be a horrible person if i left her. Im just emotional now and rambling i dont know what to do. Stay out late and just come home to sleep, avoid her as much as I can since shes not happy with me anymore? I dont want the drama anymore i just want my wife and friend back but it doesnt seem like things will ever be the same again.

[SteveLW]

Time....time....time.

Sorry kettle, this is your only chance. Let time go by. Be patient. Without patience, which you seem to have in very short supply of, you are doomed to failure. NOTE: failure here is not losing your W. That very well may still happen. Nobody can tell you "DB and she will come around". However, failure means that no matter what happens with her, you learn NOTHING from this. And continue being the same ol' damaged and conflicted guy you were before all of this.

Here are my suggestions rather than "Stay out late and just come home to sleep, avoid her as much as I can since shes not happy with me anymore", how about:

1) Continue to be there for her. I am sorry, but your sitch is much different than most of ours here. Stage 4 cancer is very serious. You need to, no matter what she says or does, commit to making sure that no matter how her cancer turns out you can look back with NO regrets. Your "i would be a horrible person if i left her." is dead on. SO DON'T BE that guy. Continue to help her when she allows it. Don't go dark on a person that is potentially fighting for their life.

2) Get into IC. I don't remember if you are in IC or not, but porn addiction is no different than drug and alcohol addiction. Likely you will not beat it without professional help.

3) Get the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. Read it. Study it. Take its suggestions and employ them. You certainly seem to have a case of Nice Guy Syndrome. This line is a clear indicator: "I knew I was in trouble when we didnt even have sex the night of our wedding." HUH? So if she doesn't have sex with you then you "are in trouble"? That my friend is the kind of expectation a NIce GUy would have. "I married her, she should give me sex!" Want to hear a dirty little secret? Many couples do not have sex the night of their wedding!! It is a long, stressful day, culminating several long stressful days and weeks leading up to the wedding. Many couples collapse in exhaustion the night of their wedding. I remember having a discussion about that at someone else's wedding. Out of 5 couples, my W and I were the only couple that had had sex the night of their wedding. Read the book. NGS is not what it sounds because it is FAR from being nice.

[AnotherStander]

I have been married for 10 years. My wife has been disabled for 9 of those years. There has been no intimacy because of her health for years. She caught me watching porn 'taking matters into my own hands' shall we say. Needless to say she hit the roof. She considers porn as cheating with a real person. I know I was wrong, but i didnt consider this cheating. I just have my needs. She says i have broken her trust, how could she have been so stupid to have trusted me ,im disgusting ...all of it. i confessed, i didnt try to hide it. i apologized.

Hi Kettle, I used to listen to Chuck Swindoll a lot and in one of his sermons he said he was one of the speakers at a convention of young men who were in school to become pastors. Most were married. They gave out an anonymous questionnaire to the attendees towards the end of the week-long convention. One of the questions was whether they had viewed porn while on this religious retreat. I'm sure they all figured "well it's anonymous so no one will know who said yes and who said no so I'll be truthful." So on the last day, Chuck Swindoll announced the poll results and 100%, every single attendee, at a RELIGIOUS convention, watched porn while AT the convention. I'm sure the guilt in the room was palpable when that statistic was revealed, LOL! My point is this- darned near everyone views porn. If you have some religious guilt hangup about it then that's your business, but if you don't then don't let your W or anyone else "shame" you into it. You were watching it guilt-free thinking you were doing your W a favor, right? It was a way for you to find gratification without putting pressure on her to do so given her medical condition. Your W needs to be educated on this subject, if she expects you to live in a sexless marriage and never watch porn and never masturbate, then she has EXTREMELY unrealistic expectations, ones that pretty much no man would meet.

She now tells me to go find a girlfriend. i dont want a girlfriend , i want her. She says i dont want her , i want porn.

Is she in IC? She really should be given that she has cancer. If she is in IC then encourage her to discuss this with her counselor as I suspect her counselor will help set her straight on this subject and what her expectations should be.

She clearly feels hurt and upset and I am by no means saying you should ignore her feelings, but you should listen and validate WITHOUT accepting blame. Listen to her, acknowledge that you hear her feelings and you understand why she feels the way she does. That's it, don't try to justify/ explain/ argue/ reason/ negotiate. Encourage her to discuss it with a counselor.

She asked me why didnt i tell her about the porn 18 years ago when we met. She said If she had know she wouldnt have married me.

Then she would either not be married or would be married to someone else not telling her about it. Again don't try to reason with her. Just say things like "it sounds like you're really upset about this, is that how you feel?" "Yes, I feel like I've been betrayed!" "That sounds very difficult, I am sorry you feel that way." This is putting the focus on her FEELINGS, not on what she perceives as transgressions.

Now she feels stuck with me. I sometimes feel the same way, im stuck with her. Was I just supposed to come out of the blue and discuss porn with her?

Keep in mind that this could be because she is going through stage 4 cancer. Don't discount the possibility that this has nothing to do with you watching porn and everything to do with her facing her own mortality and being scared and worried and extremely angry, and looking for someone/ something to vent her anger on. I am not justifying her actions, but I am saying there may be more to this than meets the eye.

[Ready2Change]

AS is point on.

More drama.

You are the man. Your job is to emotionally handle the drama. Calmly. Let her emotions flood out while you are calm. Back in the day we said "put your raincoat on" and get ready to hear everything under the sun. Listen to understand her. I will bet she is scared. Having cancer has to be scary. I bet she is angry. Let her be emotional. This has nothing to do with you and everythig to do with how you handle it.

Im almost ready to just leave

Do not let your feelings lead you. Lead by your core values and empathy.

She only hears ,sees what she wants to.

That is HER story. That does not mean it is the truth. That does not mean you have to agree. That does not mean you have to argue. That does not mean you have to explain your story. It only means to listen to understand her.

She asked me why didn't i tell her about the porn 18 years ago when we met.

If she asks, then "I can't change the past. I didn't mean to hurt you. I am sorry."

Was I just supposed to come out of the blue and discuss porn with her?

The timing wasn't right. It sounds like you have that opportunity now. AS had good advise.

I knew I was in trouble when we didn't even have sex the night of our wedding.

Did you address this, or just ignore the issue?

I don't want the drama anymore

To bad. Just don't pull the rope. Let her be emotional while you are the rock. Be confident. Project strength. Listen without judgement.[/quote]

I just want my wife and friend back but it doesn't seem like things will ever be the same again.

Things are constantly changing. This is a phase and will pass. Love your wife. She needs you now more than ever.