Not Sure Where This Is Going

[SteveLW]

niall, while the blow up wasn't necessarily good, some good came out of it. You seem to be handling yourself really well since then. I like this entire update. You validated, you did the right thing. I really like the "I don't care what she is doing" attitude. That will serve you very well for detachment.

Keep up the good work. And do NOT give up the MBR.

[Niall11]

niall, while the blow up wasn't necessarily good, some good came out of it. You seem to be handling yourself really well since then. I like this entire update. You validated, you did the right thing. I really like the "I don't care what she is doing" attitude. That will serve you very well for detachment.

Keep up the good work. And do NOT give up the MBR.

Thanks Steve. I won't give up the MBR. Last night I came in around 11 and was wondering if she'd be in the MBR and, if so, if she'd try to tell me to go elsewhere. But she was sleeping already in the LR. So no confrontation about that.

I see she's put a number of things on the calendar for April, including some with D2, which I think is good. I'm going to try to fill in a number of days too. I waa upset in part that she was always out and I, being less proactive about making plans and more concerned about spending money, was not. One night a friend invited me to a movie and I had to decline because she was already booked to go dancing. Her parents dropped by and decided to take D2 for the night, so I went to the movie. I was much less concerned with her whereabouts when I had something of my own going on.

[AnotherStander]

She texted me that we needed milk, first words in two days.

Your reply- "good, as long as you're going can you also pick up X, Y and Z."

She added snarkily that she had a dance event for tonight (Friday) but could cancel if that wasn't enough notice for me and I had other plans.

This was a text? Doesn't sound snarky to me, be careful not to read something in that may not be there.

She then texted that she doesn't want to discuss what happened "right now," had never expected me to say some of the things I said, but will have more to say at some point. I replied, "I understand. I know you are upset."

Good response.

Got up and left this morning with a kiss for D2 but not a word to me.

Tell her "see you later", it's not going to make the world explode. Detachment is not being cold/ rude/ indifferent. Detachment is saying something to her and not caring if she responds or not.

[Niall11]

She texted me that we needed milk, first words in two days.

Your reply- "good, as long as you're going can you also pick up X, Y and Z."

She added snarkily that she had a dance event for tonight (Friday) but could cancel if that wasn't enough notice for me and I had other plans.

This was a text? Doesn't sound snarky to me, be careful not to read something in that may not be there.

She then texted that she doesn't want to discuss what happened "right now," had never expected me to say some of the things I said, but will have more to say at some point. I replied, "I understand. I know you are upset."

Good response.

Got up and left this morning with a kiss for D2 but not a word to me.

Tell her "see you later", it's not going to make the world explode. Detachment is not being cold/ rude/ indifferent. Detachment is saying something to her and not caring if she responds or not.

About the milk, I was out at a meeting and she had just put D2 to bed. Couldn't go out to get milk without waking and taking her. So I wasn't going to be a jerk about it. When the roles are reversed she picks it up. I want to collaborate as smoothly as possible where our D is concerned.

Exact text: "1. I had noted the calendar but wrong month. 2. I had something for tomorrow BUT apparently it is last minute for you so are you doing something tomorrow? 3. I can cancel my plans."

You're right, it may not be intended as snark. Just struck me that way. She did add a few things to calendar so she's at least trying to give notice.

I can say "see you later." When I told her last night I was leaving for meeting, she turned her head away and said nothing. But I can keep saying that stuff.

[Niall11]

W's big plan for Friday was to see her BFF (who is her biggest cheerleader in all of this) after work, come home for a couple of hours, and then go out at 9 for a dance event billed as 10 PM to 4 AM. As I anticipated, she texted me around 6 that there was too much traffic to come home and go back out, so she would just go straight to the dance thing.

I picked up D2 at 2:30, played with her all afternoon, made her dinner, and put her to bed. She woke up around 3:45 and W still had not returned. The event was billed as until 4 AM but she'd been up since before 6. D2 asked for milk around 4:30 and it sometimes gets her back to sleep. I went to kitchen for the milk and D2 saw light in the living room. W had come home. D2 didn't want to leave the living room, W just wanted to sleep. I ended up giving D2 my phone to watch videos and went back to bed.

At 6 W came and tapped me on the shoulder. "D2 is hungry, I need sleep." What she really needs is to figure out if her priority is seeing her daughter at any point in a day, or staying out partying until 4 AM. I came and brought D2 to our bedroom, which W still refuses to sleep in, and she is playing on the floor near me right now while W sleeps on the couch. According to the calendar W is taking D2 to a farm today and then going out again at night. When she sleeps is her problem.

[sandi2]

Hi Niall, I've read your thread and I don't know if I can be of any help, but I would like to try. I have some questions, if you don't mind answering them.

If you were not financially dependent on your W's income, would we see you taking different actions from what you are currently doing?

If your W had a "crush" on OM, would you react differently than knowing it's a woman?

Do you have personal boundaries in place? What would she have to do that would be the last straw for you? I mean, how much disrespect will you endure until you've had enough?

I see you making excuses for your W going out so much. As a mother, I have to wonder how she could be away from her two year old baby that much. On the other hand, as a former WW, I see a lot of familiar signs that shout rebellion. Whatever is going on with this woman, she's acting out in rebellion. It concerns me that you try to be okay it, and even look at another M where the woman is bisexual and think if her H can live that way, then you can too. If that's what you really want........then who are we to try and suggest something else? However, I think if you were okay with it, you wouldn't be here. And the difference in that other H & W from you and your W........his bisexual W is going home and having sex with him, and your W doesn't want sex with you. I suggest this is more than someone who is simply experimenting with the same sex.

You've probably heard how couples have to learn to compromise in M. Don't be misled and think that means you have to compromise your core values, self respect, integrity, etc. As long as you are honest with yourself and true to your own self worth, then your boundary lines won't get buried beneath the b.s. your W is dishing up and serving. Don't you think it's time you evaluate where you draw the line in being disrespected? How long are you willing to play along with her selfish behavior, deny you sex, and leave you basically raising your child alone? That's up to you. From where I sit, I wonder even if this was some type of flash in the pan where she got it out of her system, so to speak.........would she respect what she had in a H when she was ready to settle down and take her role of wife and mother seriously? Nice guys want to believe the W will respect them for how much they put up with, but that's not the case when she's behaving badly.

I don't pretend to understand her sudden attraction for women. I'm more inclined to believe she had either suppressed these feelings a long time........or something stimulated her and made her feel "alive", and she wanted more. If it were another man in the picture, I'd say it was the thrill of crossing the line and dabbling where she had no business dabbling. Why would it be any different with the same sex? I don't understand how some men are okay with their W having sex with other women. Why is not on the same level as her cheating with a guy? Anyway, you have to decide where you draw the line in the sand. What will it take for you to say, "Enough is enough".

[Niall11]

Thanks so much, Sandi. Here goes.

If you were not financially dependent on your W's income, would we see you taking different actions from what you are currently doing?

It would be an entirely different situation. I would not be thrilled at not living with D2 every day, but I would be much more open to one of us staying elsewhere for a time. As it is, my only real option would be to go stay with family several hours away and not see my D every day. I'm trying to get a better job situation so I have some additional options.

I read on Gordie's thread (I think), when he decided not to move out, about this being the equivalent of the bullet you take for your child. Right now I stay for D2.

If your W had a "crush" on OM, would you react differently than knowing it's a woman?

Ethically and morally, I see no difference in terms of infidelity (I still don't know that a PA has happened but what has happened is bad enough).. At a low point I happened to learn of my friends' little arrangement. Because I thought there was a higher likelihood that she'd later resent not having explored the interest in women if we R, I briefly considered if I could accept some limited contact. I've since learned that I can't and certainly not while I'm being frozen out.

Do you have personal boundaries in place? What would she have to do that would be the last straw for you? I mean, how much disrespect will you endure until you've had enough?

I sure used to. I've been in a number of longish relationships before this one. No sex and, to my knowledge, my partner having a serious interest in others are things that never happened. Had they happened I never would have stuck around this long. I didn't want to be with someone who didn't want to be with me.

Back then ending a relationship might have been painful but a clean break was pretty easy. I never cohabitated before, no shared finances, no marriage vows, and obviously no child. I've been willing to stick it out through a lot more in this situation than I ever would have before. Multiple times I thought about leaving and then looked at all my photos of D2 and thought of all the moments I would have missed. It has been awful and I am trying to figure out where my limit is. Advice has generally been not to move out and I don't think W will either, so it's a stalemate.

More to follow in next post.

[Niall11]

I see you making excuses for your W going out so much. As a mother, I have to wonder how she could be away from her two year old baby that much. On the other hand, as a former WW, I see a lot of familiar signs that shout rebellion. Whatever is going on with this woman, she's acting out in rebellion. It concerns me that you try to be okay it, and even look at another M where the woman is bisexual and think if her H can live that way, then you can too. If that's what you really want........then who are we to try and suggest something else? However, I think if you were okay with it, you wouldn't be here. And the difference in that other H & W from you and your W........his bisexual W is going home and having sex with him, and your W doesn't want sex with you. I suggest this is more than someone who is simply experimenting with the same sex.

It's interesting that it comes across that way because I've mostly been furious about the going out. Until this year I'd have said she was an excellent mother. But she first reached a point of largely ignoring D2 b/c constantly on the phone at home. Now she's out a lot.

Agree 100% about rebellion. I have always been pretty good at being objective and I think she was very unhappy before. She felt, rightly, that she had too much of the burden of D2 and housework. She also felt, I believe unfairly, that I wasn't contributing financially. She had a tough job she hated and no energy even before D was born and sleep disappeared. Now, with a new and less exhausting job, she has the energy to go out apparently and she sure is doing it. This is a lifestyle she never really wanted until we had a child and it seemed like she couldn't. Anger built at me and her life in general and she became, by her own words, cold, hard, and selfish. And she's proud of it. I find it unacceptable even where I am concerned but particularly as concerns D2.

My friend with the bisexual wife recently reminded me of their arrangement. Apparently he's not threatened because it's different anatomy and he doesn't consider it a threat. And it turns him on. I said I didn't believe I could do it but, in any event, his wife hadn't stopped having sex with him. In fact, having heard how miserable I am in my sexless marriage, she's been having more sex with him so they never reach this point. Glad some good has come of this.

Agree completely there's more than just a desire to experiment. Her real issue is deep unhappiness with our MR and our life, and she's built up a wall against me.

You've probably heard how couples have to learn to compromise in M. Don't be misled and think that means you have to compromise your core values, self respect, integrity, etc. As long as you are honest with yourself and true to your own self worth, then your boundary lines won't get buried beneath the b.s. your W is dishing up and serving. Don't you think it's time you evaluate where you draw the line in being disrespected? How long are you willing to play along with her selfish behavior, deny you sex, and leave you basically raising your child alone? That's up to you. From where I sit, I wonder even if this was some type of flash in the pan where she got it out of her system, so to speak.........would she respect what she had in a H when she was ready to settle down and take her role of wife and mother seriously? Nice guys want to believe the W will respect them for how much they put up with, but that's not the case when she's behaving badly.

Agree. My self-worth has taken a hit in recent years. I feel largely responsible for us getting to the point we did last summer, but I believe her actions since have been unacceptable. Like I said, I'm trying to hold on to keep my relationship with D2. People here say it takes a long time and 7 months is nothing.

W used to admire and adore me. A lot has happened and right now she definitely does not respect me. I don't think she will respect me more for putting up with her crap, but I also don't yet think leaving is the right decision. I never expected to be in anything like this situation. Not just with the MR but financially, etc.

[Niall11]

Mostly separate weekend. W still sleeping in living room.

Yesterday she took D2 over to her parents' place (5 mins away) and stayed out until about 8 pm. There was an event near the coast I could have gone to, but I was running late so I chose to skip it and just went for a drive in the same area and a short hike by myself. It was a nice day after a long winter and being near the water always makes me feel a little better. A pinch when I passed the church where we were married almost 8 years ago. Things were so different then.

Today W got up and did some tidying up around the house. With a 2-year-old this needs to be done constantly and I do plenty of it. W has this way of being annoyed when she's doing it, as if all the burden's on her. It always makes me tense. W took D2 out to a petting zoo or something with her parents. I went to an event where most of the people I know around here were going to be. Had a long talk about football with an older guy I've known casually for a few years and it was nice to feel like a normal person for a while.

W called an hour ago and asked if I was home. She wanted to drop D2 off for a nap and run to the supermarket. We have been speaking a bit more civilly about D2 and mundane things like what groceries we need. Getting more resigned to whatever is coming. The ball is largely in her court. I have my own things to work on.

[Niall11]

Not much going on. W still sleeping in LR but, since Monday, has been more "normal" in terms of making small talk, etc. She went out to her dance class Monday evening. I went to a panel discussion in town Tuesday evening.

I think her sleeping in the living room is unnecessary but it's her call. I'm not going to say a word about it. I'm starting to get used to having the bedroom to myself. I found I didn't care this time that she was going to the dance thing. Could this be the beginning of true detachment?

Earlier today I got in a workout and tonight I'm going to a friend's birthday party. Focusing on job applications and D2.