Hello everybody, this is my first time posting. Firstly I'd like to say that I have been reading many people's posts and replies for a few days now and I have found so much useful information so thank you to all of you for that. I shall give you a summary of my situation and anybody that has any advice support for me would be much appreciated. I know that my situation is similar to a lot of people's here but there are a couple of aspects that I am dealing to find a 'strategy' for. Thank you in advance for reading.
My W and I married in August 2017. We have been together for almost 4 years (I know, not very long!) I am 33 and she is 29. We were both the happiest we had ever been in our lives and were both completely committed to spending our lives together. My W has had a difficult childhood and life and had never felt properly loved, secure or supported until she met me and was finally truly happy and content and had a 'home' for the first time in her life. I was (and still am) completely committed to her and I felt truly blessed to have found someone like her and never took her for granted because I always knew this. Before we got married, my MIL was concerned about the marriage because my W has had psychological issues in the past and has also left every R she has ever been in; my MIL believes she has a defence mechanism which causes her to run away from things if she feels like they aren't working. My MIL was always very approving of me and believed that I was finally the person to stop this happening with my W.
At Christmas (2018) my W told me that she no longer felt the same way about me and had been feeling this way for over 6 months. She recognised that this was a dangerous part of herself and had been trying to change the way that she felt. She also said that she 'wanted to want to make it work'. She said that she was still the happiest she had ever been and she didn't know why she was feeling this way. Over the next month, I tried my best to support her and told her that we would work through this and she also told me a number of times that we would make it work between us. Things started to get a little better and she said that it felt as if we were making progress. At the start of February (2019) she decided to go away for a week to give herself a chance to miss me and to make herself want to be with me again. She promised me that she was not leaving and that when she came back everything would be much better and I believe she truly meant it. 5 days later I returned home to a letter from her stating that it was too late for her, she saw me as more of a good friend and that the connection between us had gone. She then moved all of her belongings out of the house and is now living with her sister.
Even though I had noticed that she was more distant over the last 6 months or so, we still had very happy times together and she was obviously very happy on a number of occasion. When she left, she knew that she may have made a terrible decision that she might regret for the rest of her life and has said that to various people. She is adamant though that it is over and there is no way back for us.
Despite all of this, I am not going to give up any hope and have been trying everything I can to try and reconnect with her. At first I made all of the mistakes possible, trying to reason with her, telling how good we could be together etc. but have stopped that now. I have made sure that I am being strong, getting on with my life and socialising and keeping up with my interests and hobbies; we have a mutual friend who has also been very good in making sure that she is aware of all of this. I have been working on the problems that my W identified as a reason for her feeling this way, mainly that I didn't talk to people about my emotions enough. Again, our mutual friend has been ensuring that my W knows how I have dramatically improved with this which I have. I have also been adopting the 'agreement' method in our interactions and have made sure I don't try and convince her, talk about getting back together or anything such as that.
We are still in contact via messages and email however these are merely practical issues regarding our house. We didn't own the house and I am moving out this week to live with my friend. We also don't have any children. We never had any significant problems in our relationship besides communication and my W also agrees with that. Here is my problem: when we got married, she thought that it was perfect and always would be. Even though I was slightly more realistic and knew that a marriage needed a lot of care and attention, I too fell into this mindset a little bit. Because we were both so scared of losing the special love that we had, neither of us wanted to ruin it by addressing small issues that we came across.
I know that it would be completely possible for us to rebuild our connection over time and to rebuild a long-lasting healthy relationship again. Even during the time since my W has been feeling this way about me, she has said that she still really enjoyed spending time with me, still really liked me and cared about me and that we were compatible with each other in every single way. Unfortunately, our differing work times meant that we no longer had as much time together and that contributed to us drifting apart a little bit.
My main obstacle in reconnecting with my W is this: she believes that you either love somebody or you don't and when the feeling has gone there is no way to get it back. Since she left she has been intentionally emotionally separating herself from me and moving on with her life because she sees that as the easiest way for her to move on from me. She has moved away from our home city where she had a really strong friendship group and has cut all ties with everything that she built there and is now living about 15 miles away. She is not seeing anybody else and doesn't intend to (for the moment at least). She is polite, understanding and courteous in her communication with me and doesn't hate or resent me. I know that she is really struggling with what she has done and feels incredibly guilty for what has happened but she believes that the best thing is for her to cut all ties with her relationship with me. I have tried my best to make her not feel guilty and to support her with everything without coming across as being needy. I am addressing all of the issues with myself that I know frustrated her and am making real progress with this. I am completely committed to our marriage and will not give up on it regardless of what she says or thinks. I know that one of the solutions here is to only really contact her when she initiates it or for practical reasons and I have been adhering to that. My worry with this though is that because she is adamant that there is no way back and is intentionally cutting any emotional or practical ties with me, this will not help the situation.
My apologies for the long message and thank you for reading this if you have made it this far!
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Sorry you are here, but you came to the right place. You will get the support and advice you seek. Some of the advice will not be easy. I see you are already doubting not contacting her. So you are already in a battle with what works (DBing) and what you feel is intuitive.
Ben I will ask you to think back to a time when you had a young lady that was into you, and you weren't into her. Maybe she called you or texted you a lot. Maybe she'd show up unannounced at places she'd knew you'd be. Whenever she reached out via phone, text, email or in-person, you felt pressured. You felt overwhelmed. You'd even ask yourself "why can't she just leave me alone?!" In short, it wasn't a good feeling. AND eventually she'd be the last person you'd want to see. If an elevator opened in front of you, you would choose almost ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD to be standing in that elevator rather than her.
Ben, as hard as it is to hear and face.......that's exactly how she feels about you.
Now sometimes, and I know this happened to me a couple of times following the above scenario, that when she backed off and stopped the daily calls. Stopped the constant texting. Stopped the emails, and stopped showing up unannounced at places she knew you'd be...........and then after some time passed......you would start to wonder what happened to her. Maybe after 2 weeks of no contact suddenly you would go "Hmmm, I wondered what happened?" However you felt relief that it had stopped. But then some more time would go by. Maybe 2 months. And suddenly you started to think, "Wow, she must have found someone else. Or she must have finally really given up." And while relief is no longer what you felt, you certainly did not want to restart the madness. But then more time went by, maybe 6 months. And a weird phenomenon started. Suddenly you were not only wondering what happened, and not only was the relief gone, but you actually started to MISS her. But then a pang of the memory of the constant pressure would pop into your head and you would decide that you still wanted to avoid restarting that. But then 9 months, or a year later not only were you now missing her, but you actually started to have fond feelings for her. "She wasn't that bad! If only I had given her a chance. Yeah she was bugging me but she only did that because I was ignoring and avoiding her...."
THIS IS WHY DETACHMENT AND GAL WORK. When you remove all pressure and pursuit. When you stop "bugging" her. When you begin to move on with your life. And then after some time (the amount of time this takes is varied and therefore you need to not go on a set timeline) the above paragraph can start to take root. She will go through the wondering but relief. And then just wondering. And then start to miss you. And then eventually, if given enough time, she will start to think back fondly on you. And remember how much she admired, respected and was attracted to you.
This phenomenon has happened in TONS of situations. A few times it took weeks, sometimes it took months, more often it took years. But there have been spouse and boy/girlfriends that have gone decades, and then tried to find and reach out to their left-behind partner because those feelings of fondness grew so strong. Daily calls, texts, emails, and in-person dealings could never achieve such a powerful and profound sense of missing and fondness as absence can!
This is why pulling back and not initiating contact, except for necessary logistical reasons (kids, shared finances or assets) is the best way to go.
Ben, how old are the two of you?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
we have a mutual friend who has also been very good in making sure that she is aware of all of this.
Oh God, tell them to stop.
Originally Posted by Benmusic
Again, our mutual friend has been ensuring that my W knows how I have dramatically improved with this which I have.
Is this the real issue? If so, I think make a big change like this would take a long time to cement.
Originally Posted by Benmusic
Even though I was slightly more realistic and knew that a marriage needed a lot of care and attention, I too fell into this mindset a little bit.
That's ok. Everyone has done that. You just need to learn from it. It doesn't justify what she's doing but you can't stop her from leaving. Sorry man.
Originally Posted by Benmusic
My main obstacle in reconnecting with my W is this: she believes that you either love somebody or you don't and when the feeling has gone there is no way to get it back
Kinda true, kinda not true. Feelings and actions are two way streets. We've had this convo in the forums before.
Originally Posted by Benmusic
Since she left she has been intentionally emotionally separating herself from me and moving on with her life because she sees that as the easiest way for her to move on from me.
That's what you need to do. I know it's hard to believe, I know I hated it when I felt my W trying to detach from me. But the old tricks aren't going to work anymore.
Originally Posted by Benmusic
She is not seeing anybody else and doesn't intend to (for the moment at least).
I don't want to be rude b/c if you stick around here you'll learn a lot and really grow as a person. But pretty much every sitch here has an "other man/OM" in the picture.
Originally Posted by Benmusic
My worry with this though is that because she is adamant that there is no way back and is intentionally cutting any emotional or practical ties with me, this will not help the situation.
I hear you. Do you think contacting at strategic times and saying certain things are going to make her want to reconnect emotionally or practically, thus helping your situation?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
At Christmas (2018) my W told me that she no longer felt the same way about me and had been feeling this way for over 6 months.
So basically she's telling you she was only "happily married" for a year? I think this has a lot more to do with mental issues on her part than anything to do with you. Is she in IC?
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She recognised that this was a dangerous part of herself and had been trying to change the way that she felt.
That's not something she can do by herself though.
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Even though I had noticed that she was more distant over the last 6 months or so, we still had very happy times together and she was obviously very happy on a number of occasion. When she left, she knew that she may have made a terrible decision that she might regret for the rest of her life and has said that to various people. She is adamant though that it is over and there is no way back for us.
First, don't try to convince her you had happy times and that she should be happy. The more you try to convince her the less she will believe it. Second, give her time and space.
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I am not going to give up any hope and have been trying everything I can to try and reconnect with her.
Don't try to reconnect with her. That is just putting pressure on her at a time that she wants zero pressure.
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We are still in contact via messages and email however these are merely practical issues regarding our house.
Good. You should stick to business only.
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We didn't own the house and I am moving out this week to live with my friend. We also don't have any children.
You are in a good position to go dark on her and should do so. Do not let her buddy up to you and use you as a friend.
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I know that it would be completely possible for us to rebuild our connection over time and to rebuild a long-lasting healthy relationship again.
Not possible until she decides it's possible. And that's not going to happen for a while. Until then- time and space.
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My main obstacle in reconnecting with my W is this: she believes that you either love somebody or you don't and when the feeling has gone there is no way to get it back.
That's how she feels right now. It will probably change. Maybe in a year, or 6 months, or a few weeks. Who knows. But you have GOT to take yourself out of the equation before that can happen.
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I am addressing all of the issues with myself that I know frustrated her and am making real progress with this. I am completely committed to our marriage and will not give up on it regardless of what she says or thinks. I know that one of the solutions here is to only really contact her when she initiates it or for practical reasons and I have been adhering to that. My worry with this though is that because she is adamant that there is no way back and is intentionally cutting any emotional or practical ties with me, this will not help the situation.
Your goal right now isn't to "help" the situation, it's to "not hurt" the situation. You do this by pulling back and giving her time and space. She's on a journey you cannot help her along. All you can do is get out of her way so she'll eventually realize the problems are in her and not because of you.
Thank you all very much for your advice. In response to Steve, I am 33 and she is 29.
And yes, AnotherStander, she has been in IC for almost a year now and has been in it on and off for the past 8 years.
I appreciate all of your advice and will certainly take it on board. Although there were a couple of reasons that she gave me for starting to feel this way, none of them should have been enough for somebody to end a marriage in my opinion, things like we didn't spend as much time socialising as we used to. My biggest concern with the whole situation is that nothing was really broken and a huge part of it all is down to some sort of psychological defence mechanism that she has which causes her to shut people out of her life. I know that I can't do anything to help her with that but it really makes me worry that she is being self-destructive and throwing away a chance for her to be happy with life. As I mentioned, she has cut herself off from everything that she knew and felt safe with and now just focusses solely on work.
I also appreciate the fact that there are often OM involved in situations like this however I know that this is not the case, not at the moment at least. I also know that with most people, detaching yourself from them and giving them space and a chance to miss you is the best method. However, I know my W and I know that, in the future, no matter how much she wanted to get back with me she wouldn't be able to approach me due to her issues with abandonment and fear of rejection.
I am also in IC and, whilst I am working through coping as well as I can with the situation, I am currently not writing her off and moving on from her. My W made the decision to leave very rashly but then started to doubt herself; even after saying that she could never come back from how she felt, she caved a few times and told me that she loved me and suggested there was still a chance with me. I am not going to wait around forever because I am confident enough in myself to know that I can be a really good and loving partner or husband to somebody else in the future. When I know for certain that there is no hope or chance to reconnect with my W, I will consider our marriage over and make sure I can heal properly in order to eventually find somebody new. This is something I have been working on with my counsellor who also thinks it is a good way to look at things at present. I didn't however enter marriage lightly and am committed to it regardless of what she has said or has happened.
My W also knows rationally that the best thing for her to do for herself would be to find a way back to me (something she has herself said) but, as my therapist suggested, the hurt and frightened child in her has taken over her rational adult self and is not allowing her to see it like this. I think the best way forward for me is to continue to show to her that I am strong, loving and considerate and the security and comfort that she has always wanted. I'm certainly not going to do that by constantly pestering her or contacting her however I'm afraid that I am not going to break all contact with indefinitely. I'm sorry that that goes against the advice here but I do believe my situation is a little different due to her psychological issues (I don't really like to call them that though because I think it is unfair on her). I'm sure you will disagree with me and I respect that!
Thank you again for all of your suggestions, I really appreciate the time that you have spent getting back to me.
All we can do is tell you what works. You get to decide to apply it or not. Ben just be aware, there are many past posters that came back with regrets saying "I should have listened! I pressured and pursued my walkaway spouse right out of my life."
But do what you want to do. I do have to ask though. Why come here and ask for help if you're not going to change anything?
Good luck, these sitches are marathons, not sprints. So be ready for the long road ahead.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Ben you've gotten some great advice here from the vets.
Can I ask what she is like in her other relationships (family, friends, workplace)? Is she functioning well there, or do u hear of fights, tantrums, dislikes this/that person. Has she stopped talking to others lately?
At this phase of me going thru the same process as you I am watching my wife burn many bridges. Which makes me think at times that our marriage is one of many things she is killing in a process of emotional survival.
Even in our good days I remember telling my wife "Honey you are fighting back to an imagined attack".
And my opinion of lately is that IC doesnt catch them. Most humans are good at hiding their negative traits. And there is the phenomenon of the unreliable narrator. They probably present us as the monster to all including IC.
B.D in December 2018 Physical Affairs discovered in April 2019 Divorced May 2019 H (me) 49 W (her) 29
IHCLACS by unreliable narrator I am referring to the technique used in storytelling where we are following someones POV feeling for him the whole time, only to find out we've been duped from the beginning. Think of The Usual Suspects.
Meaning., they were lying about their symptoms when they were talking to the IC. Hiding. Left untreated
Last edited by gzabetas; 04/05/1912:01 PM.
B.D in December 2018 Physical Affairs discovered in April 2019 Divorced May 2019 H (me) 49 W (her) 29
We keep talking about the OM in this forum. but I only had hints.
Today when she was gone, I saw she had left her purse wide open on the table.
I snooped. Guilty. Found notes of her with interactions with OM. Little diaries that women keep about how they made them feel. What he whispered in her ear. Plus there details of events that pointed to it being real, with a real OM.
So I am contemplating going all Ray Liotta on this OM. I punched the wall earlier. I thought I was calmer than this, but I am losing my cool. I am picturing smashing his head. This OM destroyed my family as we are getting divorced now.
Of course I am going to do the logical fight and play this like a chess game.
When she moves into her new place I will leave printouts of these on her new floor or walls.
B.D in December 2018 Physical Affairs discovered in April 2019 Divorced May 2019 H (me) 49 W (her) 29
So I am contemplating going all Ray Liotta on this OM. I punched the wall earlier. I thought I was calmer than this, but I am losing my cool. I am picturing smashing his head. This OM destroyed my family as we are getting divorced now.
Its easy to blame OM, I mean they are going around with a married woman. Shows what kind of character they have. However, OM did not destroy your family or your marriage. Your W did.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
But you know what its like when you have an alcoholic at the bar and he is struggling, and the bartender knows and he still serves him the drink.
Thats kind of what the OM is. The W is weak. Mine was recommended to join the gym due to her depression. She was struggling with identity issues and childhood trauma , giving birth etc.
So the "pusherman" comes along, "Hey I can give you a hit of this sweet strange sex". make all your pain go away. Wife gives in, and really they are both to blame. Wife mostly though as she didnt keep her word to me.
B.D in December 2018 Physical Affairs discovered in April 2019 Divorced May 2019 H (me) 49 W (her) 29
So I am contemplating going all Ray Liotta on this OM. I punched the wall earlier. I thought I was calmer than this, but I am losing my cool. I am picturing smashing his head. This OM destroyed my family as we are getting divorced now.
Its easy to blame OM, I mean they are going around with a married woman. Shows what kind of character they have. However, OM did not destroy your family or your marriage. Your W did.
Not only that, but OM are often married, so the same could be said in reverse: "Its easy to blame your cheating W, I mean they are going around with a married man." Weird that LBHs often refuse to see that.
gzabetas, please breathe. You need to be very careful. RARELY do we do things that are good for our sitches when we are emotional. Impulsiveness will almost always result in negative outcomes. Both for you and your MR. Many a LBH has resorted to doing things out of impulsiveness that caused them to have restraining orders, arrests, little to child custody, etc come their way. Don't be that guy.
We all want to take a baseball bat to OM. But as TF said, OM is NOT your problem. If it wasn't him it would have been another OM. I fixated on my W's OM and within 3 weeks of BD, she and him had parted ways. And now she was on the look out for OM2. Going on dating sites even. So unless you are willing to start smashing multiple heads, you can see how that plan is not conducive to what you need and should be doing.
We always warn LBSs that come here, convinced that there is no OP, no EA or PA, that likely there is. I'd say the percentage of walkaway spouse situations where there is an OP involved is very high....approaching 100%.
So just take some time and calm down. Remember to try to think logically about your next move, not emotionally.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Gzabetas At the very least. Save the evidence for D court. Dude I'm sorry I know it pulls at the pit of your stomach like you feel helpless, at the same time, creating a fire and rage through your entire body arms and fists, practically giving you a flipping aneurysm. But you wont serve any purpose as a man of your family for your children or kids if you are in jail, if you lose custody, if you have a restraining order placed on you. If you have to go f!#$ something up till your knuckles bruise, (please don't fracture or break anything.) to keep you from hurting someone or exploding, then do it healthy. Hit the bag at the gym or something for release.
These people are low (OM and W) One is weakness, and one prays on weakness. Be better and stronger than that. For you, for your kids, for your self worth. I'm sorry you're going through this even though I know that's not what you want to hear right now.
Thanks both for your concern. I needed to hear that. My emotions are running amok.
I took my bicycle and rode around for hours just to calm down. I had so much energy. I went to the basement and lifted weights. I am probably going to get fit as a result of my rage.
What makes the rage worst in my case is that we are in a small town, where people know each other.
I am now beginning to understand why people that I knew stopped talking to me, looking down when they saw me. Out of embarrassment. For me.
And this fight that I am talking about. Its not easy. These OM my W met are at the gym.They have muscles. I am an IT guy who has gone soft. Its a battle of the underdog in my case, I was thinking of shaving my head in mohawk like DeNiro in Taxi Driver to have some intimidating factor when I walk in there.
Mostly fantasies of course. I need an outlet for this anger.
B.D in December 2018 Physical Affairs discovered in April 2019 Divorced May 2019 H (me) 49 W (her) 29
I was an IT guy. Im tall skinny and out of shape, but still look good and feel quick. Just don't have as much power as I did when I was 18. But also am a construction worker now, and was 20 years ago. I've had those kinds of fantasies all my life. Vindictive ones where they can't identify me. I've done some vindictive stuff in the past, and it doesn't really help. Trust me karma is a BI$!#... What goes around comes around. Be the better man.
I have a temper that that has gotten a little mellowed with age, in some ways, and in others, it has not. I was the kid that was always picked on in grade school, despite a few being lower than me.. (Because they knew they could get to my emotions.) Got into a reasonable amount of fights. (Boys will be boys.)
Ironicly I'm working with a guy the last 2 years who I knew since Kindergarten who was an a-hole to me then. But is pretty cool now. We room together sometimes on projects. People change. I've gotten my a$$ kicked probably as many times as I've kicked theirs. I can fight ok. Nobody ever really wins a fight. I've been jumped a few times by multiple attackers. Not fun. Makes you question if you can protect your family psychologicaly, and physically, especially getting jumped before, that's why im a big supporter of 2nd anendment, and carrying firearms. But my state NJ [censored], and reg. Citizens can't carry here openly, but can own.
Both my BIL's do muay tai, and other MMA stuff, they're pretty good.
Since I don't fight too well...For 20 years I've wanted to get defensive like, since my fighting abilities are average, or just dirty if life threating. That so at least I know I have the power to use it if necessary like defensive aikido, or krav maga. But not use it in retaliation but pure defense. I've had some friends show me some basics, but if you don't use it, you lose it. This mindset of second guessing yourself undermines confidence. W has always known this, knowing all of me. So I hear ya. It plays hell on your confidence. I'm probably going to get into Krav in the near future, once some $$$ frees up.
Go take a MA class if you feel up to it? I'm sure it will strengthen your mind, body, and confidence, and release some of that rage.
Wow IHCLACS thats quite a life you have lived. From IT to construction. IT did take a hit making me take odd jobs lately too. Photography being one of them.
I know those fantasies. I guess they are a healthy outlet for our emotions. But man that line is so thin. Yesterday when her lawyer undermined me - in out first meeting with lawyers -- and said I need to look harder for work for alimony I got really mad. I told him he better not embarass me like that. that it was the second time he did it. and to wipe that smirk off his face.
I think when you lose your family you have nothing else to lose. They dont know how ready we are to just go.
I have no more tolerance for it. Everyday has been a downward spiral into the deception of my wife. Today I found the letters, yesterday her lawyer threatened me. Last week I found out I will only get 4 days a month with my kid.. It keeps on adding,
Its like you read my mind when you mentioned martial arts. Found a class earlier on kicboxing. I need to release all these emotions.
B.D in December 2018 Physical Affairs discovered in April 2019 Divorced May 2019 H (me) 49 W (her) 29
