Not Sure Where This Is Going

[ovrrnbw]

I do need to 2x4 you on your last statement to her. You did pretty well, though I would encourage you to do more listening and validating, until that last statement:

"I'm also sorry for the choices you are making."

That was dripping with judgment and accusation.

Her:"I'm sorry this isn't going the way you want."
You:"Thank you for that. Life doesn't always go the way we want, but there are better days ahead."

or "Thank you for that. I can understand how all of this must make you feel."

Steve, why even respond to that garbage? And if you do respond, why shield her from her own actions?

His W isn't actually sorry that things aren't going the way Niall wants them to go. She just feels bad about being an adulterer. I think no response or an honest response is better. But to thank her and say things will get better? I wouldn't. Then she just keeps the onus of her actions on Niall.

Niall, my W was whining and crying in MC one time and said "When you say that I left OM's bed and came and got in the MB with you it made me feel like a slut". Well, guess what? You should feel like a slut. That is a slutty thing to do! Not my fault.

[Niall11]

I do need to 2x4 you on your last statement to her. You did pretty well, though I would encourage you to do more listening and validating, until that last statement:

"I'm also sorry for the choices you are making."

That was dripping with judgment and accusation.

Her:"I'm sorry this isn't going the way you want."
You:"Thank you for that. Life doesn't always go the way we want, but there are better days ahead."

or "Thank you for that. I can understand how all of this must make you feel."

Steve, why even respond to that garbage? And if you do respond, why shield her from her own actions?

His W isn't actually sorry that things aren't going the way Niall wants them to go. She just feels bad about being an adulterer. I think no response or an honest response is better. But to thank her and say things will get better? I wouldn't. Then she just keeps the onus of her actions on Niall.

Niall, my W was whining and crying in MC one time and said "When you say that I left OM's bed and came and got in the MB with you it made me feel like a slut". Well, guess what? You should feel like a slut. That is a slutty thing to do! Not my fault.

That's my instinct too and probably why I said what I said. But so much of this is about resisting those instincts and doing what's effective rather than what feels good. I think she should marinate in her guilt a bit but she won't be open to hearing that from me right now. Probably counterproductive. I probably should have said nothing or something like, "I'll be fine."

[SteveLW]

I do need to 2x4 you on your last statement to her. You did pretty well, though I would encourage you to do more listening and validating, until that last statement:

"I'm also sorry for the choices you are making."

That was dripping with judgment and accusation.

Her:"I'm sorry this isn't going the way you want."
You:"Thank you for that. Life doesn't always go the way we want, but there are better days ahead."

or "Thank you for that. I can understand how all of this must make you feel."

Steve, why even respond to that garbage? And if you do respond, why shield her from her own actions?

His W isn't actually sorry that things aren't going the way Niall wants them to go. She just feels bad about being an adulterer. I think no response or an honest response is better. But to thank her and say things will get better? I wouldn't. Then she just keeps the onus of her actions on Niall.

Niall, my W was whining and crying in MC one time and said "When you say that I left OM's bed and came and got in the MB with you it made me feel like a slut". Well, guess what? You should feel like a slut. That is a slutty thing to do! Not my fault.

Because things WILL get better. Notice I didn't say "there are better days ahead FOR US". Nial, trust me. When this is all said and done, no matter what happens with your marriage, you will be better for it. It is hard to realize that in the thick of our sitches, but look at the people that post here that have come through it. Some saved their marriages. Some did not. But we are all better, wiser, happier people today than we were before!

[SteveLW]

I do need to 2x4 you on your last statement to her. You did pretty well, though I would encourage you to do more listening and validating, until that last statement:

"I'm also sorry for the choices you are making."

That was dripping with judgment and accusation.

Her:"I'm sorry this isn't going the way you want."
You:"Thank you for that. Life doesn't always go the way we want, but there are better days ahead."

or "Thank you for that. I can understand how all of this must make you feel."

Steve, why even respond to that garbage? And if you do respond, why shield her from her own actions?

His W isn't actually sorry that things aren't going the way Niall wants them to go. She just feels bad about being an adulterer. I think no response or an honest response is better. But to thank her and say things will get better? I wouldn't. Then she just keeps the onus of her actions on Niall.

Niall, my W was whining and crying in MC one time and said "When you say that I left OM's bed and came and got in the MB with you it made me feel like a slut". Well, guess what? You should feel like a slut. That is a slutty thing to do! Not my fault.

That's my instinct too and probably why I said what I said. But so much of this is about resisting those instincts and doing what's effective rather than what feels good. I think she should marinate in her guilt a bit but she won't be open to hearing that from me right now. Probably counterproductive. I probably should have said nothing or something like, "I'll be fine."

Listen. Validate. No need to try to guilt or shame her. Trust me, she is feeling all of that already!

[Niall11]

Quite the weekend in my world. Friday evening I had a function that has been on the calendar for months. The kind of thing that, five years ago, wife would have gone with me to. Three years ago, I would have had to make an excuse for her absence because she was NEVER feeling sociable. One or two years ago, she would have had the built-in excuse of being home with the baby.

She asked me what time I expected to be back. I said maybe 8:30 or 9. She said, "OK, then I'll handle bedtime." I got home around 8:45 and our D2 was running around the house, W chasing her. W says: "Thank God, you're here. She's just been asking for you the whole time." I took over bedtime duties and, within 15 minutes, W left the house without a word of notice and came home well after midnight.

Saturday the weather was halfway decent and W wanted to buy training wheels for D2's bike. We all went together and, as I was putting them on the bike, W announces that she's going to meet "a friend" for a movie. She leaves at 12:30 pm and comes back around 5. Throws together a quick dinner, then starts getting ready to go out yet again with no prior notice.

I said, "If you want to go out and do things that's fine, but we need to set up some kind of schedule and you can't keep expecting me to be here to watch D2 when you give me no notice that you're planning to go out.

She said her friend just texted her and she decided to go out. Highlights:

--"I'm sorry it's inconvenient for you that I have friends now."
--"I'm not going to feel guilty about having a life now."
--"I can go out where I want, when I want, with whom I want, until whatever time I want, and it's none of your f------ business and if you don't like it I don't f------ care."

She then totally reinvented history by suggesting:

(1) That I have been controlling for years and never let her go out with her friends. This is total nonsense. Even when she was in grad school (2011-13), I had to encourage her to accept invitations to go do things. Her instinct was to stay home every night. Once she started her previous job, she would come home and change to PJs at 5:30. She never wanted to do anything. I actually liked when she would go out from time to time. I could blast music I like but she doesn't.

(2) That I "prohibited" her from having her friends to our house. Everyone we know would laugh out loud at this. It's the total reverse of what happened. Multiple friends of mine refuse to come back to our house because she was so rude to them. Because she never wanted anyone coming over. The few times her friends have been over here, I suggested it almost every time and had to convince her.

I didn't engage on any of this stuff, other than to say that someone has to be home to take care of D2 and W shouldn't assume I'm always available for that. I think a schedule is appropriate.

Meanwhile, on Sunday afternoon D2 was crying and W went to comfort her. D2 pushed her away and asked for me. Later W asked D2 to say something about me. D2 said, "Daddy's funny." I asked her to say something about W. She said, "Mommy's sleeping! Mommy's doing exercise! Mommy's not here!"

Sure enough, at 7 pm last night W went out AGAIN with zero notice. Potential OW2 was sitting in a car in my driveway. W's been whining about being tired all the time, but came home at 1 am. She gets up at 6 for work. Tonight is the regularly scheduled dance class (8-9 pm, most weeks she rolls in around 1).

I'm being taken advantage of here and it's not going to last.

[Hurt213]

I'm being taken advantage of here and it's not going to last.

You are, without a doubt being taken advantage of, and that is for you to handle. Reason number one: She has absolutely not one grain of respect for you. So how do you think, you can regain some of that respect, that will make her treat you like a human being?

Validating and listening are two of the key skills, that you will learn to master in order to get communication going. However, if there is no respect, then no matter the amount of validation and listening, you will come up short, and she won't see you being worth a dime.

You need to sit down, and my suggestion would be a follow up on what you already told her: You guys have a joint responsibility for your daughter. You can understand that she has the right to have friends, to go out, to do whatever she wants to, and you totally get, that that is her privilige, and you have absolutely no intentions of staying in her way, AS LONG as she does on her own time. So, you need to get her to sit down, and make a schedule on paper, and if she won't, then you need to figure out what your next step is in order for you to make that plan a reality - what are your boundaries, and what are the consequences for breaking these?

Dont get pulled around by the hair, but be cordial, be respectful while you show her, that if she wants out, fine - however you are not going to pull the load so she can just go and come as she pleases. And get the fk out of the house when you have YOUR time. Go meet some friends, go dance, go join something social, cooking class, ball game, whatever, but go out, and realize your potential is great, and so many people in this world would love to get a chance to know you - however they can't, because right now, you are taking care of d2 like you were a widowed husband.

Be strong.

[SteveLW]

Niall,

Time is always a problem for LBSs. Your sitch has been going on since Sept. To you that feels like decades. In reality, 7 months is a drop in the bucket for most sitches. Why is time such an issue for LBSs? Because as a general rule our society has given up on the virtue that is patience. No one has it anymore. Spend 5 minutes driving on the road and you'll see the severe lack of patience in our society today.

Regardless, your W rewrote history to try to get you to back off. She wants to do what she wants to do when she wants to do it. I don't think she is purposely taking advantage of you...she simply doesn't care. Rather than think about it in terms of whether or not she takes advantage of you or not, look at it in terms of what is best for D2.

I think you are doing this, but keep D2 at the forefront of everything you do and everything you decide.

Also look up mtb's threads. I will look to see if I can find them. He had a particularly WW and he dealt with it pretty well. I think at some point, if this isn't working for you, then you will need to ask your W to leave. And when she does, make sure you change the locks. WWs that are especially wayward will forsake everything, including their kids.

First thing I would do if I were you is contact a lawyer. I think he would start having you document everything. Document when she leaves, when she comes home. How much time she is spending with D2. How much time she is spending away. The goal here is for you to get full custody if your W continues down this path.

Hang in there, but start to take actions that protect you and D2.

[SteveLW]

Here is mtb1981's first thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=53733&Number=2358653#Post2358653

[AnotherStander]

She said, "OK, then I'll handle bedtime." I got home around 8:45 and our D2 was running around the house, W chasing her. W says: "Thank God, you're here. She's just been asking for you the whole time." I took over bedtime duties and, within 15 minutes, W left the house without a word of notice and came home well after midnight.

Saturday the weather was halfway decent and W wanted to buy training wheels for D2's bike. We all went together and, as I was putting them on the bike, W announces that she's going to meet "a friend" for a movie. She leaves at 12:30 pm and comes back around 5. Throws together a quick dinner, then starts getting ready to go out yet again with no prior notice.

I said, "If you want to go out and do things that's fine, but we need to set up some kind of schedule and you can't keep expecting me to be here to watch D2 when you give me no notice that you're planning to go out.

She said her friend just texted her and she decided to go out. Highlights:

--"I'm sorry it's inconvenient for you that I have friends now."
--"I'm not going to feel guilty about having a life now."
--"I can go out where I want, when I want, with whom I want, until whatever time I want, and it's none of your f------ business and if you don't like it I don't f------ care."

Wow well she is certainly playing out the "girls gone wild" scenario. One thing I would suggest is you not let her speak to you that way again. Just tell her if she does you will leave the room or house, then if she continues, leave!

Second I would suggest you go ahead and put that schedule together and get her to agree to it. She is taking advantage of you big time, time to put a stop to that!

(1) That I have been controlling for years and never let her go out with her friends. This is total nonsense.

Yes, that's why we call it "rewriting" history. It has little or no basis in fact.

Niall, my W was whining and crying in MC one time and said "When you say that I left OM's bed and came and got in the MB with you it made me feel like a slut". Well, guess what? You should feel like a slut. That is a slutty thing to do! Not my fault.

Remember to validate- "I'm sorry your actions make you feel like a slut."

[Niall11]

You need to sit down, and my suggestion would be a follow up on what you already told her: You guys have a joint responsibility for your daughter. You can understand that she has the right to have friends, to go out, to do whatever she wants to, and you totally get, that that is her privilige, and you have absolutely no intentions of staying in her way, AS LONG as she does on her own time. So, you need to get her to sit down, and make a schedule on paper, and if she won't, then you need to figure out what your next step is in order for you to make that plan a reality - what are your boundaries, and what are the consequences for breaking these?

Thanks so much for commenting. A schedule is definitely coming.

I don't know how to enforce her breaking that schedule other than leaving, which I don't intend to do just yet. Under the circumstances I understand it would be more appropriate for her to leave, but at the moment I wouldn't be able to afford to be here alone. Frankly she wouldn't be either but she'd come closer. Her pay is regular. I'm self-employed and it's been a lousy couple of years and income has been erratic. Some months pretty good, some very lean. One of the biggest changes I need to make is to get back to a regular paycheck so I have more options and leverage.