If I'm honest with myself, it's been more the other way around for most of my marriage. I've always earned more, worked longer hours, travelled more with my work. He's always done more in the house, and taken the lead in arranging family time and activities and holidays. I took him for granted, but I also felt that in the times when I did try to make things more even, he would be so critical of how I did things, or how I parented, that it felt easier just to step back. So this separation has re-set things in the house, in that I am doing everything as I see fit and nothing has fallen apart or broken and he can see that all the domestic stuff is entirely within my capabilities and I don't need managing, and I'm in the position where I'm having to take a more supporting role to him and his work, which is very different too. It still feels lopsided - and he did acknowledge that - but I hope that in the future there will be some kind of balance. I don't want to get my hopes up on that. And at least I know that if we decided to divorce, I can financially and domestically look after everything on my own if needed.
Well maybe your husband felt unappreciated too? I can see that you feel tired and resentful at having the lion's share of domestic stuff to be responsible for, maybe that's how he felt too for years but expressed it badly? If both partners feel unappreciated it turns into all sorts of bad behaviour from both parties. Maybe he did want you to take more responsibility but then felt undermined when you tried to instead of supported?
An example: I've always been interested in gardening, I've built up a lot of knowledge of different plants and all sorts over the years and spend lots of time gardening, not necessarily for pleasure but because it's nice to have beautiful plants to look at (I do enjoy being outdoors but I feel a lot of pressure trying to fit it in along with all the other stuff in life which keeps me busy).
So last year we had a garden project which needed doing, dh comes to the garden centre, picks some plants which frankly I think are ugly or won't work and dismisses everything I say. I felt criticised and like he was invading my territory and like he was belittling all my experience. Now he looks at some bulbs in a planter and says 'I planted those didn't I?'
Maybe I should have been more encouraging of his interest, offered more gentle guidance instead of being 'the expert' and understood his wish to do more gardening as expressing an interest in things domestic instead of him rudely barging in on my turf. I mean I don't think he's suddenly going to develop a passion for plants but at least I could give him the benefit of the doubt! Perhaps there was a similar dynamic operating with you and your husband? In any case, both of you seeing what it was like for the other person means you can understand each other better, which must be a good thing. Maybe you could express some appreciation to your husband of all the domestic stuff he used to do? Because it's a lot less visible than work or money, and a lot less recognised by our society too.
Things seem very positive. The conversation yesterday about boundaries and house rules went well. He said to start with he felt nervous it was just going to turn into an argument, and I said I wanted to compromise with him and hear what changes he wanted to make, and we were able to come to an agreement pretty easily. We presented it to the kids together, and that worked well too. I had a nice afternoon with family.
In the evening, Eldest really really began pushing the boundaries - he was as challenging as I've ever seen him be. It was very difficult. Family therapist warned me that might happen. I do find it really really hard to deal with his anger. I gave the consequences that we had agreed, and that seemed to escalate the temper further. In the end I was so stressed and upset I rang H who came around to get Youngest bathed and in bed while I dealt with Eldest. I could see he was nervous to be there when I was upset and Eldest was being awful - it's such a difficult time and in the past had triggered some of our worst arguments - but I did stick to what we'd agreed would happen and he was glad about that, and I was glad about it too - and wasn't doing it only to please him but because I think firm boundaries and a united front from both parents is what Eldest needs. i think it was important for me to deal with Eldest too - and I felt H was supporting me in doing that. I can see I've been so conflict-avoidant I've let Eldest get away with a lot of disrespectful behaviour towards myself and H and it has made H feel terrible, so this felt like a good change.
Eldest came and apologised after a couple of hours. I asked him to apologise to H too, which he did, in the end, though the consequences are still going to stand as per our agreement. Eldest went to bed and H and I talked for a while about this - about what a difference it was, and about how he found it scary to be around me when Eldest was upset, and I found conflict terrifying. It was a good, non-blaming conversation. H said we'd been stuck in a pattern - he felt like how he felt and what he wanted didn't matter so long as everything was quiet, and I felt like no matter what I did it was never good enough. I validated him and he validated me, which was good too.
We're going out together as a family tonight for a school event. I don't know what all this means for our R but I am so glad and relieved to be getting on to the same page re parenting because so much of our conflict was about that. No matter what happens, that makes my life a bit better and, more importantly, I think is good for both kids.
Dilly - thanks for that. Yes, I think we've both felt really really really unappreciated for a very long time. Him for his domestic work and his efforts with the kids, and me for bringing in the money and organising finances and house etc. I wonder if the gender-reversal might have played into it a bit? I think as we both felt less appreciated we both got more polarised - he became more and more controlling about kids and domestic stuff, and I just resentfully withdrew, and I felt more and more resentful about being the breadwinner, and buried myself in work because it was rewarding in a way that family relationships had not been.
One thing this separation has done so far is give me a renewed appreciation for all the domestic work - the mental load - that running a house on your own involves (though I am working still too this is a quieter time of year for me) and this focus on his own career and the urgency of this massive deadline has, I hope, given H something for himself, outside the family, to have for himself - but also maybe given him a bit of insight into what my life was like too. Who knows? Being apart is still very painful at times, but most days are okay and relations seem fairly cordial most of the time over the past couple of weeks. I can see there's been benefits to this separation.
That all sounds very positive, I know family dynamics have been a huge part of the problems between you and your husband. It also sounds like you handled both eldest and your husband really well, even in the midst of some behaviour which must have been scary to you. Sounds like family therapy has been useful already perhaps? Well done, I think you should be proud of yourself. I aspire to behaving like a grownup with my husband the way you have been with yours lately
It went well at the event last night. Cordial. Youngest was playing up a bit, and H took charge of it and took him home early, and had also brought a gift to make Eldest's achievement. It felt so nice us all being together in the house. I was sad when he went home. I think I got a bit needy and clingy - I asked him to tell me exactly what he meant when he said he wanted to 'work on things' when his project was done, and he was a bit impatient about that (it was late and he was tired and wanted to go and sleep).
I think seeing him more, and more cordially, and seeming to make progress, makes me feel MORE vulnerable in some ways. And that makes me take the attention of myself and my own GAL and 180s and put it on him, and wanting assurances and change from him to make me feel content and safe. I need to watch for that.
I can relate exactly to that, to having hope for the future and jumping ahead to how things might look. It's a bit of a trap isn't it? And then if things don't keep moving in the right direction then you feel much more upset because your hopes are up. And then sometimes you undo your good work in making you both feel safe by asking for too much too soon. This has been my story so far. Sigh. It's so very hard not to have expectations though: us humans are behaviour prediction machines.
I don't know what to advise, because I'm stuck in this place right now myself. If you find out, let me know lol. Maybe it's something I will discuss with my IC later.
Hard morning. Eldest was behaving abysmally. I put in the consequences we'd agreed and obviously he got angry and escalated his behaviour. I rang H after he'd gone off to school - mainly because I wanted his support. He was reasonably supportive, but also pretty critical (well he's like this because you've never given him proper boundaries, if Id have been allowed to parent as I saw fit he'd be too scared to act like that...) and that was hard. We didn't argue, and I spoke up for myself, but it didn't feel good.
I get that he feels resentful that he's thought I should have been firmer all along, that caused problems with us, and now I have come to his way of thinking and am making a change and want his support, he is annoyed about that. I validated that. I also feel he's still not considering at all any changes he might need to make in order that we can co-parent together - laying off criticising me and finding fault when Eldest doesn't behave well would be a start. Stopping the blaming and the point scoring would help too. I've asked for that, the family therapist said it needed to happen, and he still can't stop. It still feels very one way and I resent that.
I get I rang him at a bad time and I get he isn't ready to be as supportive as I want him to be, but I am so tired of being left with the dirty work then being criticised when I'm not up to standard.
That sounds really hard, and definitely exhausting! OK, how would this be: 'I'm sorry if I'm ringing you at a bad time, let me know if it's really terrible timing and you can ring me back. I just really need to vent right now, I had such a bad time with eldest this morning and I feel terrible. Please don't criticise because I know I haven't been a perfect parent. I just need to tell you what happened and have you listen'
You are entitled to ask for support without him criticising, but also perhaps you could see his criticism here as being in Mr Fixit mode? Sometimes I complain to my dh and he says 'I don't know what to suggest' or 'I can't fix your hormones' but then suggests going to the doctor. So instead of seeing the criticism as attack, see it as your husband not knowing what he needs to do? Plus some bad old habits from both of you (him criticising, you feeling attacked)
Yeah, I think you're right. I did start off by asking him if now was a bad time, and I also said, 'I'm just having a horrific morning and I need a pep talk,' but he was totally exhausted (he was coming off a twelve hour night shift and it was the first one this week so he won't have slept much the day before to prepare for it) and I know he felt me saying something along the lines of 'I am exhausted having to lay down these consequences and take the brunt of his anger on my own' to be an implicit criticism of him not being here - and he still feels like he was kicked out rather than he left, so it's all very tangled.
I did manage to stand up for myself a bit though. He went on a tiny rant about how Eldest seems to think he has an anger management problem that that means he never took his attempts to discipline him seriously, and that I should have backed him up there. And I said he had a point, there were many many occasions where I should have backed him up and I didn't, and that's part of the reason we are were we are today. But that his anger was a problem in his relationship with me and with Eldest and I couldn't take responsibility for fixing that. He didn't challenge me there or disagree with me, and I didn't feel afraid of saying it, so that feels like progress.
I guess we're both just super reactive around the idea of the other finding fault with them. There was no shouting or sarcasm or name-calling though. He wasn't remotely verbally abusive, not even sarcastic - he was just exasperated and less warm than I'd have preferred. It was a hard conversation but I hope it hasn't set things back.
I guess the 180 I need to make here is to perhaps not expect much in the way of emotional support at the moment. The right thing to do with Eldest is the right thing, no matter how Eldest responds or how H is able to back me up or not. I need to do it because it's the right thing, and not to get H's approval or affirmation. I need to check in with him as a parent but be mindful of timing. I also need to continue to refuse to accept blame and point scoring and criticism, which means asking clearly for the positive thing that I want.
And I think I do need some more emotional support with this, so I am going to see if I can see my friend this afternoon.
